Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

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deanmoriarty
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Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by deanmoriarty »

I have done a terrible, massive mistake.

I moved from a tech company in Silicon Valley to a hedge fund on the east coast, lured by the money (3x my current compensation if we include the bonus!). I relocated 3 weeks ago in a corporate housing rental, paid by them. Flight was expensed (business class), as well as other reimbursements.

In my decade of experience I have always been nothing but a stellar performer. When I started here, it was an immediate disaster. I haven’t even been given time to learn anything about the company, during the very first hour of work I was given tasks way above my level of expertise, with significant rush to deliver (“give me this by tomorrow?”). I haven’t even completed paperwork like payroll and insurance, I have had so much work to do it is insane. And, I am not able to deliver anything, I am not familiar with the systems and people expect me to know everything in the new environment. I can sense they are frustrated by my lack of knowledge, and there is no mentoring at all. My manager doesn’t exist, I have talked to them 15 minutes in two weeks.

In all the companies I’ve been at, people are given several weeks of slack to come up to speed, and someone to talk to daily for mentoring. Not here.

For the past two weeks I have been working 100 hours a week (yes, from 6am to 11pm and a good 10 hours every weekend day), I am going insane.

The interview feedback was extremely positive, they were looking for this position for a very long time (I am a specialist software engineer), and screened me well. I made sure to not oversell myself and was always honest when discussing my technical capabilities and projects, and yet I can’t get anything done. I would need at least 2-3 months where I just study the systems and come up to speed, with little work expected to be delivered.

How do I get out of this without having to pay a massive amount? As part of the offer I signed a clause saying I would have to repay the relocation expenses if I quit within a year, I thought “sure, I have never had a problem in any previous job, I won’t quit in a year!”. They put me in a very luxurious apartment in downtown, where rent is probably around $10k a month and they booked this place for 90 days...

This has been an insane nightmare and can’t believe it happened to me. For the 10 years of my career, I have been very much productive and always got promoted to lead positions quickly. I really don’t understand what went wrong.
go_mets
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by go_mets »

I would wait until they let you go.


Edit:
What happened to the previous person?

Non-technical people have no clue about technical "stuff".
They tend to have unrealistic expectations.

.
Thegame14
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by Thegame14 »

start interviewing if you can, sounds like you will get let go and not have to pay the expenses back
ARoseByAnyOtherName
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName »

Wait until they let you go. (IF they let you go.)
Bogle_Bro
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by Bogle_Bro »

Take a deep breath, try not to put so much pressure on yourself, & keep doing your best. Do not quit. If they aren't happy with your performance they'll let you go.
Big Dog
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by Big Dog »

If your old company would take you back, I'd resign and work out a repayment plan. (you are making 3x, so you should have some cash to move back.)

The 100 hour weeks will not go away. If you are going "insane", perhaps this is not the quality of life for you.
mlipps
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by mlipps »

Work 40 hours a week, do what you can, and job hunt until they fire you.
BillWalters
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by BillWalters »

Stop endangering your health working 100 hours a week.

If they fire you, you won’t have to pay the money back. Try to take a few breath and keep things in perspective.
oldfort
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by oldfort »

If I were you, I would quit. For me personally, no amount of money could be worth working 100 hour weeks. Assuming 100 hours isn't an exaggeration, how do you find time to sleep?
fatFIRE
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by fatFIRE »

Your new work environment is UNreasonable.

DO NOT QUIT.

Do the min amount of work, start interviewing elsewhere, get them to lay you off. Also can claim UI if that happens. Also aggressively push back.

"No, this work cannot be done by tomorrow. I'll have it for you on <this time>".
Last edited by fatFIRE on Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ddurrett896
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by ddurrett896 »

3x the pay at 2.5x the hours? No deal - go back to old company.
HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

oldfort wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:15 pm If I were you, I would quit. For me personally, no amount of money could be worth working 100 hour weeks. Assuming 100 hours isn't an exaggeration, how do you find time to sleep?
That’s only 14 hours/day. 10 hours left to do everything else.
drk
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by drk »

Assuming that you worked about 35 hours per week at your old job, you'll have completed exactly one year in a third the time. Can you make it to four months? What if you do a (plausibly deniable) bad job? Eventually people will recognize that they can't rely on you and will find other ways to get their stuff done (or let them go undone because they weren't important in the first place). If nobody pays attention to you, then you should be able to disappear pretty easily.

If you want to live in your new locale, you could start interviewing with other companies that would value your skill-set. One of them will be happy to help you repay your relo.
supalong52
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by supalong52 »

Just explain to someone, even in HR, that you need time to acclimate and learn the systems. A little communication would help, even if you end up insisting it has to be a certain way. What's the worst that happens, they fire you? You're already looking to leave.
fatFIRE
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by fatFIRE »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:17 pm
oldfort wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:15 pm If I were you, I would quit. For me personally, no amount of money could be worth working 100 hour weeks. Assuming 100 hours isn't an exaggeration, how do you find time to sleep?
That’s only 14 hours/day. 10 hours left to do everything else.
You must work for a hedge fund. LOL.
boogiehead
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by boogiehead »

go_mets wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:58 pm I would wait until they let you go.


Edit:
What happened to the previous person?

Non-technical people have no clue about technical "stuff".
They tend to have unrealistic expectations.

.
+1 what happened to the previous person. Do you have peers or a team to help assimilate you? Seems like a total misunderstanding of your skills vs. what’s needed for the job.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

sorry about your situation. definitely more to life than work. Agree with others, let them fire you or see if your old job's available and payback the money if you leave before the year's up.

also, could any of the lack of mentorship/supervision be due to covid-19 (i.e., are you teleworking and the company is not used to communicating remotely?)

finally, just some hedge fund humor:
1. well, your situation sounds like a typical hedge fund...overpromise and underdeliver!
2. now I know why hedge funds charge their customers so much money...they have to pay their workers by the hour!
It's "Stay" the course, not Stray the Course. Buy and Hold works. You should really try it sometime. Get a plan: www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_policy_statement
oldfort
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by oldfort »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:17 pm
oldfort wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:15 pm If I were you, I would quit. For me personally, no amount of money could be worth working 100 hour weeks. Assuming 100 hours isn't an exaggeration, how do you find time to sleep?
That’s only 14 hours/day. 10 hours left to do everything else.
You're supposed to get 8 hours of sleep a night. So the not working and not sleeping part of your day is 2 hours. If you spend 1 hour a day eating, the not working/not sleeping/not eating part of your day is 1 hour. If you take 30 minutes a day to dress/shave/shower, then you have 30 minutes free time each day to yourself. I don't know what the OP's situation is with the lockdowns, but if he has to commute, now or in the future, then he has less free time. That's insane.
RudyS
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by RudyS »

supalong52 wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:18 pm Just explain to someone, even in HR, that you need time to acclimate and learn the systems. A little communication would help, even if you end up insisting it has to be a certain way. What's the worst that happens, they fire you? You're already looking to leave.
Great advice. In the meantime, YOU determine the best, reasonable, timetable for the assignments, and let your boss(es) know what that is. Don't ruin your health, but maybe 9 or 10 hrs a day is workable.

THEN, it's their call - worst (or maybe not worst) case seems to be that they terminate the relationship. Then, you get to keep your health and the expense reimbursement.

I guess I'm just pulling together what others have said above.
rich126
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by rich126 »

Big Dog wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:10 pm If your old company would take you back, I'd resign and work out a repayment plan. (you are making 3x, so you should have some cash to move back.)

The 100 hour weeks will not go away. If you are going "insane", perhaps this is not the quality of life for you.
I think he has only been there 3 weeks so 3X pay for 3 weeks is pretty close to nothing.
random_walker_77
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by random_walker_77 »

OP, you need to learn how to push back. The correct answer is usually not "no, I can't do this" but rather "It can be done in x timeframe. If you need it done by y, then z needs to happen," where z might include hiring me a team of n engineers.

Maybe this is a place w/ a culture of working 100 hrs/week. Since you're already doing that, it's clear that either you're not as strong an engineer or your managers/internal customers need a reality check. (I'm going to assume the latter)

Surging to 100 hrs/week isn't sustainable and carries its own cost to productivity. It's time to make that case and push back on the time demands too. Either this job is too large and requires more engineers, or you need to find appropriate accommodations, including time and/or training. A flameout is bad not only for you, but also for your employer. Work with them to make this successful, and that will require pushing back.

(In the meantime, it'd be a good idea to develop plan B and look for another employer, especially one who'll buy you out)

Good luck!
corp_sharecropper
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by corp_sharecropper »

Wow. OP, I literally have nightmares about this exact scenario (in my nightmares it stems from a misunderstanding of qualifications during the hiring process, and like you, am very cautious about that, almost to a fault). Thankfully, for me, this has remained only a mere nightmare. I hope you keep us updated on how this unfolds, I'm genuinely interested (not morbid curiosity, I swear!). I wish you the best, and hope you either figure out a way to have it work out for you or are able to pull an Office Space zen-like move on your new employer and just tell them the chicken will be done, when it's done, leaving them with jaws on the floor.
123
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by 123 »

They likely wouldn't fire you until you've been there six months or so, unless you do something really bad or foolish before then. Getting rid of a new hire looks bad for everyone that participated in the hiring decision process so many organizations are reluctant to do it. But there are some organizations that say "Whoops" to themselves much faster and terminate after just a few weeks.

Maybe it's time to have a talk with the people that hired you and simply explain like the organization has needs beyond what they initially expressed to you in the interview process but you're glad you're there to help. You need to discuss the budget and plans for the "build out" of your new department. They undoubtedly have the money. Don't be bashful. Who did your job before you arrived? If they're describing needs that take a staff of five to fulfill then they need to hire a staff of five for you to manage.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by ResearchMed »

fatFIRE wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:16 pm Your new work environment is UNreasonable.

DO NOT QUIT.

Do the min amount of work, start interviewing elsewhere, get them to lay you off. Also can claim UI if that happens. Also aggressively push back.

"No, this work cannot be done by tomorrow. I'll have it for you on <this time>".
This sounds like a true nightmare. What a disappointment!

Don't give them a deadline for yourself if you aren't pretty sure you can meet it, especially now, when you probably truly aren't sure about "when".
Phrase it some other way, without a firm date/hour. Others can probably come up with suitable phrasing, but it should probably be along the lines of "I'll try... " or "... as quickly as I can", etc.

Probably best not to include any "excuse", but having not been in this situation (thank goodness!), I don't know if adding something along the lines of "... until I get up to speed" or "... have time to learn the systems..." or some such.

[ETA: Others have already included some suggestions about phrasing.]

This makes me appreciate the time and assistance I was given (more or less, but never "none"!) when landing in a totally new position, at a new company/department/etc. I've also had that nightmare, including feeling briefly that it was actually happening (!), but it never actually did. Is there any chance that you are being too hard on yourself with your own expectations?
It's really hard to imagine at least someone there (and presumably more than one "someone"!) not realizing that a new arrival will obviously need some time/training/experience/assistance... :confused

I agree that you should probably try to stay there until either you adjust OR they fire you.
And sure, extra time/effort when landing at new job isn't unusual, but *not* like what you are describing (with the rare exception of if it is work that is truly enjoyable/interesting such that those hours are really by choice).
Yes, keep your eyes open for other possibilities.
And as mentioned, with that much of a raise, how long would you need to remain there to be able to pay them back (if it really came to that) and have it be close enough to a wash, financially? Or arrange extra compensation from a new employer to cover costs (?).
Your physical and mental health are important!

Is there any chance at all that if you found a way to ask [and someone to ask!] for more assistance learning the ropes, there wouldn't be some useful help?

Good luck!

RM
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OnTrack2020
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by OnTrack2020 »

I'm still trying to wrap my head around someone moving from a place with a pretty decent temperate climate to the East Coast and all its weather ups and downs and insane winters.

You mentioned you were a specialist software engineer. Are you the only software engineer at this company? Or are there others?

When you interviewed, did you ask about training, or was the expectation that you would simply know the programs and move forward on your own? Communication must have broken down somewhere in that interview.

Are you able to go back to your old position in California?
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

You need to take control and take charge. I have done this.

First....you're out the door after 8 hours. If there's something you can complete in 9 hours, you come in an hour late tomorrow.

In my office, I had a huge white board. For my work, I supported customer projects. Each project got written on the white board with a $$ value on it. I would re-write as a project was completed or when a new project came in. For me, it was sales people who walked in and wanted me to take on a new project. We had lots of new sales people who would promise the world before asking me if what was asked for could be done quickly. When they came to me with their 11 systems a year project (typical would be 100,000), I'd point to the board and ask "which opportunity are you bigger than?".

In your job, when someone comes and says that they need a 3 month project complete by next Friday, you be realistic and tell them "You'll have this by the end of July, or if things go wrong, into August". You have to stand up for yourself and let them know that their expectations for things they don't know how to do don't determine how long it will take to get done.

In one job I was interviewing for, the CEO directly asked me "What hours do you typically work?". I stopped and thought about it. My response was "8 to 5". A couple years later, management decided that all engineers need to work an extra hour everyday (salary, so no pay for this hour). There was no reason for this and I was very efficient and able to complete a day's work by lunch time. I pointed out that the CEO (who was not consulted about this hourly increase) and I specifically discussed this when I interviewed. I was out the door at 5:05 every day.

You may have to treat projects like Dave Ramsey's snowball method and get small projects complete. This shows that indeed, you're getting things done. If they complain that the 3 month long projects aren't done in a week, simply respond that it's a 3 month project that had zero chance of being done on time, so you worked on and completed another project that could reasonably be complete.

Set the expectations. Say no. Don't be afraid to respond with reasonable (not stretch) expectations on completion. Put constraints on things (Well, I've been waiting for xyz software login ID to work this.....it'll take 4 weeks to complete from the time I get the login info) to get them helping you. If it's important to them, they'll make sure that your xyz login ID is in your IN box within an hour.

Do not quit. You will owe 100% of what they put out for you.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Hedge funds do expect something for their 3x comp, but you’re overdoing it. Lighten up. They will pile it on until you push back; don’t be an order taker.

If it took them a while to find you, they probably have a backlog and pressure is high to “make hay while the sun shines.” The market volatility won’t last forever, and they feel pressure to make their numbers.

Good luck. Think of the glass as half full. Don’t despair.
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neoptolemus412
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by neoptolemus412 »

I’ll provide a different view as someone who has worked at a hedge fund.

In my experience, funds don’t bring folks in, pay relo fees, and short-term rentals for staff that need to be trained. There are hundreds of thousands of folks that hedge funds could hire and take the time to train.

The expectation is that you’re a performer/self starter and the $$$ came with an understanding that you will perform at the highest levels. It’s a very different culture and ‘training’, ‘learning curve’, typical hr, etc. do not apply. I empathize, but do not sympathize. There’s a reason total comp numbers are multiples of the OP’s previous role.

Those talking about 8hrs of sleep or 40 hr work weeks also have to realize the OP started in one of the great markets for volatility of the last 50 years. Individuals have made and lost fortunes. Some funds could go belly up if not careful. This Period is like hitting gold in a good rush. You dig and keep digging until there’s no more gold. All staff, engineers, and professionals are there to support the continuous digging (trading) that the fund’s investors expect. The compensation, which is substantial for most, makes up for the lack of traditional hours, culture, etc. All else being equal, the money is what attracts talent, not the culture.

My thought is stay a year. Few places are hiring right now. Maybe a FAANG, but that could take months. Earmark weekends to learn systems, basics of the stack, and the role. Socialize when possible with colleagues to learn the culture. Lastly, save your money and don’t expect bonus projections to be as rosy in 2020.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by TomatoTomahto »

neoptolemus412 wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:21 am I’ll provide a different view as someone who has worked at a hedge fund.

In my experience, funds don’t bring folks in, pay relo fees, and short-term rentals for staff that need to be trained. There are hundreds of thousands of folks that hedge funds could hire and take the time to train.

The expectation is that you’re a performer/self starter and the $$$ came with an understanding that you will perform at the highest levels. It’s a very different culture and ‘training’, ‘learning curve’, typical hr, etc. do not apply. I empathize, but do not sympathize. There’s a reason total comp numbers are multiples of the OP’s previous role.
I’ll go out on a limb, not knowing OP from Adam, but I would not be surprised to discover that the employer made a good selection. These companies usually drill down carefully before making an offer.

Armchair psychologist diagnosis: OP might be suffering from “imposter syndrome.” Not uncommon in highly accomplished and thoughtful people.
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Isabelle77
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by Isabelle77 »

OP, I've posted about this very issue before. My husband took a job across the country from where we lived and HATES it. Very similar to yours, a disaster from the first day, although sadly he was optimistic it would improve and we even bought a house which was enormously stupid. He also works pretty much all the time, his first meeting this morning was at 7am and he went to bed last night around 1am, I saw him when he heated up his dinner before returning to his home office with it. So we are going to owe 50K in relocation payback if he quits within 2years. It's now been almost a year :oops: and he hates every minute of it. He had a lovely job offer about 6 weeks ago that was rescinded due to the virus.

We hired an attorney about 6 months ago to see if there was any way to get out of paying back the relo. There was a case, they changed his job on the first day, but the attorney felt that it would go to court and cost a fortune. So we're selling the house, the kids and I are moving back west and we're hoping he can continue to work from home and come with us until he finds something else. If not, he's going to start slacking off and work on getting fired. If the job market was stronger, he would quit, but he's concerned that we would run through our savings. I'm quite worried about his health and would be ok with using our savings.

My advice, quit if you can afford it. Have an attorney look over the offer letter/contract, it does seem questionable to me that they didn't specify a dollar amount you would have to repay. Our attorney said these things are always negotiable. The sooner you correct the situation, the less money they will spend on you. This has been the hardest year of my husband's life, make it stop while you can, it will not get better.

All the best.
simas
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by simas »

deanmoriarty wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:47 pm I have done a terrible, massive mistake.
no. it may just be the environment - throw people in the water and see if they swim (including set priorities, push back where needed, etc).

as others said, you are the only person who determines how long you work, what expectations you agree with , etc.
so use that power that is always been with you - 'no, I will not have time to look into this until other priorities are handled'. 'no, this time is blocked for getting familiar with overall architecture, system x'. 'no, next time slot I would have open is 3 weeks from now based on the on-boarding schedule I put together'. etc.

what is the worst that could happen? they fire you ? ;)
London
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by London »

That’s showbiz. No one is paying you 300% of your previous comp for you to gradually get up to speed and manage expectations.

I think you’re right in that you did make a mistake (or maybe both sides did in the hiring process). Not the end of the world. Look for jobs or wait for them to fire you and move on. If you have to pay back the relo, so be it. Another life lesson; it’s not fatal.
stoptothink
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by stoptothink »

OnTrack2020 wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:53 am I'm still trying to wrap my head around someone moving from a place with a pretty decent temperate climate to the East Coast and all its weather ups and downs and insane winters.

That's your initial reaction, not shock that the OP is working 100hrs/week and is drowning, but confusion as to why someone would leave California for 3x the compensation :shock: ? A lot of people take compensation decreases to leave California, because they don't like it (even with the weather). None of that is really relevant to the OP.
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samsoes
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by samsoes »

That's no way to live. Leave now. If you continue at this place, it will put you in the hospital. Once your free of it and some time had passed, it will be water under the bridge.
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ponyboy
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by ponyboy »

What did you think would happen? You were going to get 3x the pay and have the same amount of work as before? Thats not how it works.

Do what others said...do not quit, let them fire you. Stop working 100 hour weeks. This is a good lesson. Grass is not always greener.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by TomatoTomahto »

samsoes wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:38 am That's no way to live. Leave now. If you continue at this place, it will put you in the hospital. Once your free of it and some time had passed, it will be water under the bridge.
Gosh, I don’t know. When I started working, 100 hour weeks were not that unusual for me, and I never did wind up in the hospital. That said, I no longer worked those long hours after I got married and had kids, but I don’t think it’s a health hazard. From what I hear, new doctors put in those kinds of hours, usually without any ability to decide which particular hours they will do.

ETA: you can usually get a lot done in 60 hour weeks.
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maroon
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by maroon »

I changed jobs/employers about a month ago. My new position is only tangentially related to my old job - it requires the skill set I already have, but the job duties are quite different. I was scheduled to go to training my first week, but the training workshop got cancelled. So I've spent this past month scrounging through my predecessor's files for samples to learn how to do the tasks I'm responsible for. It hasn't been ideal, but I'm happy to still have a job under current circumstances.

My suggestion is to work through your discomfort and give your job a couple of months of dedicated effort. I wonder about your predecessor: did he/she leave behind any documentation which might be useful as a training tool? Note I'm not in your industry, so my input may not be helpful. I do empathize with you as I'm going through a semi-similar situation (without the gold-plated relo benefit).
zlandar
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by zlandar »

Did you talk with your current coworkers on the work environment and expectations prior to joining? If a company is offering 3x your current compensation I would expect the job description and responsibilities to be very different.
Isabelle77
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by Isabelle77 »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:44 am
samsoes wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:38 am That's no way to live. Leave now. If you continue at this place, it will put you in the hospital. Once your free of it and some time had passed, it will be water under the bridge.
Gosh, I don’t know. When I started working, 100 hour weeks were not that unusual for me, and I never did wind up in the hospital. That said, I no longer worked those long hours after I got married and had kids, but I don’t think it’s a health hazard. From what I hear, new doctors put in those kinds of hours, usually without any ability to decide which particular hours they will do.

ETA: you can usually get a lot done in 60 hour weeks.
The OP doesn’t say how old he is, it matters.There’s a big difference between 25yrs old and 44yrs old. We worked crazy hours in our 20s too. My husband is 44, he’s 5’11 and currently weighing in at 137lbs, he’s normally around 165lbs. He barely sleeps. He can’t “get a lot done in a 60 hour work week” because he has meetings as early as 7am and as late as 10pm (with the Japan office) nearly every day for the entire day. In meetings he has been screamed at, hung up on, and generally abused. This is not an abnormal thing for this company btw. It is definitely a health hazard.

I would have had the same response as you before this experience but some jobs are truly just abusive environments.
Last edited by Isabelle77 on Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
PVW
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by PVW »

I sympathize - what you describe sounds like my own personal hell. But...

You should evaluate whether you'd enjoy this job if you were more efficient and knew what you were doing. The times in my career that I've grown the most are when I'm required to work outside my comfort zone.

If you can envision enjoying this job after you figure out what you're doing, then you should start pushing back and taking control of your own learning curve. Manage others expectations and be proactive about asking questions and learning the necessary skills. It might be uncomfortable now but it'll be rewarding in the end.
fatFIRE
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by fatFIRE »

Lot's of uninformed opinions out there on WLB and 3X compensation.

First, it is true that hedge funds pays above average, i.e. 3X compensation and have shitty hours. That's a well documented thing. It's reasonable to expect more performance for that comp, but getting zero ramp up time is unreasonable. As I've said OP needs to push back. And yes, one should consider now it's probably a bad time to start a hedge fund from a WLB perspective, as fortunes are being made and lost during times like these.

However, from a comp+WLB perspective, hedge funds lose out. Just look at these articles:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/battle-roy ... 1495637466
https://www.afr.com/companies/financial ... 911-p52q91
https://www.ft.com/content/0401f26c-967 ... 205561c3fe

IMO hedge funds are at parity with FAANGMULA-tier of tech companies when it comes to compensation. Don't believe me, check levels.fyi.

Also, since OP is a SWE, OP will always be "2nd-class citizen" in hedge funds, where "1st-class citizen" are the quants, and the "ruling-class" are the fund managers. Contrast this to tech companies, where you will be a "1st-class citizen".

So it is categorically untrue that you can get 3X compensation AND WLB.
oldfort
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by oldfort »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:44 am From what I hear, new doctors put in those kinds of hours, usually without any ability to decide which particular hours they will do.

ETA: you can usually get a lot done in 60 hour weeks.
During residency, doctors are prohibited from working more than 80 hours a week, according to the accreditation rules. Residents don't work 100 hour weeks. After residency, most doctors are working 60 hours a week or less.
oldfort
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by oldfort »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:44 am
samsoes wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:38 am That's no way to live. Leave now. If you continue at this place, it will put you in the hospital. Once your free of it and some time had passed, it will be water under the bridge.
Gosh, I don’t know. When I started working, 100 hour weeks were not that unusual for me, and I never did wind up in the hospital. That said, I no longer worked those long hours after I got married and had kids, but I don’t think it’s a health hazard.
6000 fatal car crashes a year are attributed to drowsy and sleep deprived drivers. Sleep deprivation increases the risk of high blood pressure, heart disease, depression, and dementia.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/ ... eprivation
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Isabelle77 wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:14 am The OP doesn’t say how old he is, it matters.There’s a big difference between 25yrs old and 44yrs old. We worked crazy hours in our 20s too. My husband is 44, he’s 5’11 and currently weighing in at 137lbs, he’s normally around 165lbs. He barely sleeps. He can’t “get a lot done in a 60 hour work week” because he has meetings as early as 7am and as late as 10pm (with the Japan office) nearly every day for the entire day. In meetings he has been screamed at, hung up on, and generally abused. This is not an abnormal thing for this company btw. It is definitely a health hazard.

I would have had the same response as you before this experience but some jobs are truly just abusive environments.
OP didn’t mention a significant other or children whose relocation expenses would be considered, so I assumed single. OP mentioned a decade of experience, so I placed him at early 30s.

I’m not saying that there aren’t abusive jobs. I was delighted that my kids didn’t go the Investment Banking analyst route; a pox on their houses. Some hedge funds and prop trading outfits are abusive, I’m sure. It wasn’t, however, clear to me that the harsh working conditions might not be self-generated.

I’m sorry it didn’t work out for your family (iirc in the Boston area). There are some crummy employers in the world. My point was that OP hadn’t stood up for himself, and 2 weeks is a very short time.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by TomatoTomahto »

oldfort wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:55 am
TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:44 am From what I hear, new doctors put in those kinds of hours, usually without any ability to decide which particular hours they will do.

ETA: you can usually get a lot done in 60 hour weeks.
During residency, doctors are prohibited from working more than 80 hours a week, according to the accreditation rules. Residents don't work 100 hour weeks. After residency, most doctors are working 60 hours a week or less.
I guess things have changed since I was told of this by doctors (admittedly years ago).
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.
Isabelle77
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by Isabelle77 »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:09 am
Isabelle77 wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:14 am The OP doesn’t say how old he is, it matters.There’s a big difference between 25yrs old and 44yrs old. We worked crazy hours in our 20s too. My husband is 44, he’s 5’11 and currently weighing in at 137lbs, he’s normally around 165lbs. He barely sleeps. He can’t “get a lot done in a 60 hour work week” because he has meetings as early as 7am and as late as 10pm (with the Japan office) nearly every day for the entire day. In meetings he has been screamed at, hung up on, and generally abused. This is not an abnormal thing for this company btw. It is definitely a health hazard.

I would have had the same response as you before this experience but some jobs are truly just abusive environments.
OP didn’t mention a significant other or children whose relocation expenses would be considered, so I assumed single. OP mentioned a decade of experience, so I placed him at early 30s.

I’m not saying that there aren’t abusive jobs. I was delighted that my kids didn’t go the Investment Banking analyst route; a pox on their houses. Some hedge funds and prop trading outfits are abusive, I’m sure. It wasn’t, however, clear to me that the harsh working conditions might not be self-generated.

I’m sorry it didn’t work out for your family (iirc in the Boston area). There are some crummy employers in the world. My point was that OP hadn’t stood up for himself, and 2 weeks is a very short time.
Thanks Tomato, obviously we're a little damaged by the whole experience. I am completely projecting our experience onto the OP.
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gr7070
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by gr7070 »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:16 am Set the expectations. Say no. Don't be afraid to respond with reasonable (not stretch) expectations on completion. Put constraints on things
Assuming you are capable of doing the job at a high level, this may be an important thing for you to learn: saying no.

Find folks that do your job that may help your adjustment. Openly communicate with your boss.

100 hour weeks isn't the solution. 60 might be (with the above), but 100 hours isn't helping you and that extra 40 likely isn't all that beneficial to the company.

Edit to add:
What I would not do is work with the expectation and certainly not the intent to get fired.

Say no, set reasonable expectations, create a schedule for your tasks, work hard, even work some *reasonably* long hours as needed, do a great job.

If that's not good enough for them so be it; you don't want that job then.
Last edited by gr7070 on Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by TomatoTomahto »

oldfort wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:59 am
TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:44 am
samsoes wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:38 am That's no way to live. Leave now. If you continue at this place, it will put you in the hospital. Once your free of it and some time had passed, it will be water under the bridge.
Gosh, I don’t know. When I started working, 100 hour weeks were not that unusual for me, and I never did wind up in the hospital. That said, I no longer worked those long hours after I got married and had kids, but I don’t think it’s a health hazard.
6000 fatal car crashes a year are attributed to drowsy and sleep deprived drivers. Sleep deprivation increases the risk of high blood pressure, heart disease, depression, and dementia.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/ ... eprivation
In my admittedly limited and anecdotal experience, more sleep deprivation is caused by untreated sleep apnea than working too much.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.
jayk238
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by jayk238 »

deanmoriarty wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:47 pm I have done a terrible, massive mistake.

I moved from a tech company in Silicon Valley to a hedge fund on the east coast, lured by the money (3x my current compensation if we include the bonus!). I relocated 3 weeks ago in a corporate housing rental, paid by them. Flight was expensed (business class), as well as other reimbursements.

In my decade of experience I have always been nothing but a stellar performer. When I started here, it was an immediate disaster. I haven’t even been given time to learn anything about the company, during the very first hour of work I was given tasks way above my level of expertise, with significant rush to deliver (“give me this by tomorrow?”). I haven’t even completed paperwork like payroll and insurance, I have had so much work to do it is insane. And, I am not able to deliver anything, I am not familiar with the systems and people expect me to know everything in the new environment. I can sense they are frustrated by my lack of knowledge, and there is no mentoring at all. My manager doesn’t exist, I have talked to them 15 minutes in two weeks.

In all the companies I’ve been at, people are given several weeks of slack to come up to speed, and someone to talk to daily for mentoring. Not here.

For the past two weeks I have been working 100 hours a week (yes, from 6am to 11pm and a good 10 hours every weekend day), I am going insane.

The interview feedback was extremely positive, they were looking for this position for a very long time (I am a specialist software engineer), and screened me well. I made sure to not oversell myself and was always honest when discussing my technical capabilities and projects, and yet I can’t get anything done. I would need at least 2-3 months where I just study the systems and come up to speed, with little work expected to be delivered.

How do I get out of this without having to pay a massive amount? As part of the offer I signed a clause saying I would have to repay the relocation expenses if I quit within a year, I thought “sure, I have never had a problem in any previous job, I won’t quit in a year!”. They put me in a very luxurious apartment in downtown, where rent is probably around $10k a month and they booked this place for 90 days...

This has been an insane nightmare and can’t believe it happened to me. For the 10 years of my career, I have been very much productive and always got promoted to lead positions quickly. I really don’t understand what went wrong.
Not to be a jerk but what did you expect at 3x salary plus all the ancillary benefits?

I bet in the valley you were already netting 150+. 3x that means at least 450 + benefits. What would you expect other than 100 hr work week?

Welcome to the life of high rollers.

As a physician i average 60 hrs of pt care and 30 hrs documentation just to make my measly 255 ;)
randomguy
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Re: Quitting a job after two weeks: relocation expenses

Post by randomguy »

oldfort wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:15 pm If I were you, I would quit. For me personally, no amount of money could be worth working 100 hour weeks. Assuming 100 hours isn't an exaggeration, how do you find time to sleep?
11-6 is a good 7 hours.:) What isn't clear is how much of the added work is just low productivity (i.e. not knowing how anything works) when ramping up versus long term expectations. It also sounds like the OP is getting nothing done because they are trying to get everything done. Normally this is a talk to the manager type thing but it sounds like he is not around.

Feeling you made a mistake after switching companies, is pretty normal. Most of the time after a week, you realize you can do the job but there is also a pretty high rate of people realizing this isn't for them.
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