State Farm Safe Driving App

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carolinaman
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State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by carolinaman »

Our auto policy will renew in about 5 weeks. SF agent suggested we use their safe driving app which can save from 5% to 30% depending on multiple factors. We are both safe drivers who drive within 5 miles of speed limit all the time. Also, Covid 19 has dramatically reduced our driving and I expect that to continue once things get back to normal.

Does anyone have experience with this program or similar ones by other insurance companies? Thanks for your input.
jpohio
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by jpohio »

We use the SF app on all our cars, and driving habits similar to yours. Easy to set up and use. Our discounts range from around 8% to about 20%. Some folks don’t want to use it because you are giving them a lot of info.
jjface
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by jjface »

I use it. It incorporates the low mileage discount as well so if you already receive that your bill won't be as low as you think. You have to put a small white box on the windscreen and it connects via bluetooth to your phone. The box is small (2.5" ish square) but not that discreet. The progressive version I tired a while back plugged in out of sight. I get about 15% off.

In terms of speeding the program is not strict with the speed limit so +/-5 is fine. I am not suggesting you speed but you aren't penalised for speeding unless you go 10mph over. I don't think it is particularly strict on braking etc either so don't worry about it.

I still get a discount even though I had a few bad trips
J45
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by J45 »

I had refused to use a device (not app) with my insurance company in the past. I have concerns about practice.

What if you get into a serious accident and the insurance company, citing your data/driving habits from the app, refuses to compensate adequately.

Can it be used in the legal cases? Does your insurance company shares this info with others?
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by Doom&Gloom »

We have refused to use their dongle, but we do use their app to report the mileage for each vehicle every 6 or 12 months (can't recall which). We do receive discounts for that.

I told my agent that we were uncomfortable with the dongle in the vehicle. He said "No problem. I totally understand." Using it might save us a few bucks. IMO it is just as likely that it could cost us a few bucks :twisted:
Silk McCue
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by Silk McCue »

You couldn't "pay me" to let State Farm have access to my driving data. This is all about them managing risk and not about lowering my bill.

Cheers
BigJohn
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by BigJohn »

Silk McCue wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:49 pm You couldn't "pay me" to let State Farm have access to my driving data. This is all about them managing risk and not about lowering my bill.
+1
Just on principle, the less data about me that is available in these mega databases the better. I’ve taken care to setup location tracking on my phone to only be allowed when I’m using the apps and I always close the apps ASAP when I’m done.
KT785
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by KT785 »

jjface wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:56 am I use it. It incorporates the low mileage discount as well so if you already receive that your bill won't be as low as you think. You have to put a small white box on the windscreen and it connects via bluetooth to your phone. The box is small (2.5" ish square) but not that discreet. The progressive version I tired a while back plugged in out of sight. I get about 15% off.

In terms of speeding the program is not strict with the speed limit so +/-5 is fine. I am not suggesting you speed but you aren't penalised for speeding unless you go 10mph over. I don't think it is particularly strict on braking etc either so don't worry about it.

I still get a discount even though I had a few bad trips
You don’t actually have to attach it to the windshield, you can just put it in your console, out of sight. Wife and I had both cars enrolled before switching to USAA—just kept both modules tucked in the console or glove compartment and never had any issues.

KT785
260chrisb
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by 260chrisb »

Silk McCue wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:49 pm You couldn't "pay me" to let State Farm have access to my driving data. This is all about them managing risk and not about lowering my bill.

Cheers
Never, ever, ever would I use this! Ever!
jjface
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by jjface »

KT785 wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:18 pm
jjface wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:56 am I use it. It incorporates the low mileage discount as well so if you already receive that your bill won't be as low as you think. You have to put a small white box on the windscreen and it connects via bluetooth to your phone. The box is small (2.5" ish square) but not that discreet. The progressive version I tired a while back plugged in out of sight. I get about 15% off.

In terms of speeding the program is not strict with the speed limit so +/-5 is fine. I am not suggesting you speed but you aren't penalised for speeding unless you go 10mph over. I don't think it is particularly strict on braking etc either so don't worry about it.

I still get a discount even though I had a few bad trips
You don’t actually have to attach it to the windshield, you can just put it in your console, out of sight. Wife and I had both cars enrolled before switching to USAA—just kept both modules tucked in the console or glove compartment and never had any issues.

KT785
Okay thanks. I'll give it another go out of sight.
IowaFarmBoy
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by IowaFarmBoy »

We've got it on both of our cars. Our Bluetooth beacon is approx 1.25x1.25x.4 inches and can be anywhere that Bluetooth can reach. I think in one car we just have it laying in the console tray, the other it is one of the little compartments in the dash.

We drive one car about 18k miles annually and get decent scores with it but probably tend to drive a little fast. Savings on it are minimal, maybe 1-5%. The other car was only being driven 2-300 miles/month before Covid so our savings were significant, probably around 30%. It is almost entirely my in town commuter so it rarely goes over 40mph. We previously had it rated as being driven less than 7500 mile/year but are still getting a benefit. My perception is that actual miles driven is probably the biggest factor unless your driving style is really bad.
Freddobbs
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by Freddobbs »

I dont know the ins and outs of this particular app, however, like most GPS units, it can tell them how often you are speeding. I worry that because I drive in and out of a major NE city daily and there is virtually no way I can maintain adequate space between vehicles (If I leave a few car lengths in front of me it is only for a moment before someone weaves in front) and may be dinged for it.

Somewhat off topic, but State Farm lost my trust years ago, I have impeccable credit, drive a monster commute daily, am honest about and have not had an accident in 30 years. They drowned me over time with rate increases. When i shopped around after well over a decade with them I saved $1500 on a two car policy with homeowners. All insurers do it, but I certainly dont need an agent getting a commission to NOT act in my best interest. Would I do it with another insurer? Maybe
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carolinaman
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by carolinaman »

Thanks for everyone's replies. We have 2 cars. I have a smarphone but my wife does not. Can we still use this feature for both cars?
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by Doom&Gloom »

Freddobbs wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:58 am I dont know the ins and outs of this particular app, however, like most GPS units, it can tell them how often you are speeding. I worry that because I drive in and out of a major NE city daily and there is virtually no way I can maintain adequate space between vehicles (If I leave a few car lengths in front of me it is only for a moment before someone weaves in front) and may be dinged for it.

Somewhat off topic, but State Farm lost my trust years ago, I have impeccable credit, drive a monster commute daily, am honest about and have not had an accident in 30 years. They drowned me over time with rate increases. When i shopped around after well over a decade with them I saved $1500 on a two car policy with homeowners. All insurers do it, but I certainly dont need an agent getting a commission to NOT act in my best interest. Would I do it with another insurer? Maybe
It is my understanding (please take with a grain of salt) that speeding is not as big an issue as sharp braking, fast starts, and possibly cornering.

ETA: And times of day driven and specific areas.
Mr.BB
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by Mr.BB »

One of the biggest "factors" they use in these programs is how fast you take off from a stop. In a world where personal privacy is quickly disappearing, I am not going to give the insurance companies any more information about how I drive (which they could realistically use against you for higher rates in the future) for saving a few dollars now.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."
JackoC
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by JackoC »

jjface wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:56 am I use it. It incorporates the low mileage discount as well so if you already receive that your bill won't be as low as you think. You have to put a small white box on the windscreen and it connects via bluetooth to your phone. The box is small (2.5" ish square) but not that discreet. The progressive version I tired a while back plugged in out of sight. I get about 15% off.

In terms of speeding the program is not strict with the speed limit so +/-5 is fine. I am not suggesting you speed but you aren't penalised for speeding unless you go 10mph over. I don't think it is particularly strict on braking etc either so don't worry about it.
We used the Progressive equivalent once and it was too strict on stopping, no way to drive maximally safely in our area and not get dinged fairly regularly for 'too rapid' stops at the innumerable traffic lights. You'd either have to try to make it through yellow lights every time and occasionally slightly run red ones, or slow down in anticipation if a light you were approaching has been green awhile, then give other people road rage and create an unsafe situation that way (even if they *should* behave themselves).

Maybe SF's or others (or even Progressive's now) is better tuned though. Geico AFAIK does not offer this, and their rates for us last several yrs have been untouchable. I do a comparison with at least one other well known company every year or so but are always well above Geico.

Around town or in traffic anywhere, or in our SUV anywhere period, I drive very conservatively. On winding roads in the wide open spaces in the BMW M2, not as much. I'm not a maniac either, but those ins co accelerometer/speed devices wouldn't approve. :happy
pahkcah
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by pahkcah »

Another way to potentially save money on your auto insurance (and much less intrusive) is to take an online defensive driving course. Discount amounts and length of the discounts vary by auto insurance company and state. I paid $19.95 to take a course and submitted the course completion certificate to my auto insurer. The discount is $120 per year. DW can also do the same. Our insurance company applies the discount for three years at a time. This discount is not available in some states.

And, anyone with children under 25 (age may vary by insurer) who attend school away from home during the school year should check for an “away from home” discount. Normally this requires the student(s) to be at least 100 miles from home. Of course, this is not something being used very much during the current times when most/all schools are closed.
rivercrosser
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by rivercrosser »

carolinaman wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:23 am Thanks for everyone's replies. We have 2 cars. I have a smarphone but my wife does not. Can we still use this feature for both cars?
If she's the only one that drives one of the vehicles it wont work. It uses the smart phone to function. If you drove it some you may get by with it. Every so often it will ask to update your mileage on the app. Same thing with us, the wife just had a flip phone so I never signed up her Cherokee. I did fix her up with an old smart phone I had the other day but she's struggling with it so I'm leaving it off her vehicle for now. I rarely drive it. The other thing I don't like is you have to leave your Bluetooth on for it to work and that's just one more thing draining the phone battery.
talzara
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by talzara »

carolinaman wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:20 am Our auto policy will renew in about 5 weeks. SF agent suggested we use their safe driving app which can save from 5% to 30% depending on multiple factors. We are both safe drivers who drive within 5 miles of speed limit all the time. Also, Covid 19 has dramatically reduced our driving and I expect that to continue once things get back to normal.
State Farm Drive Safe & Save is a Usage Based Insurance (UBI) policy.

Insurance companies always advertise them as discounts for safe drivers. However, the most important rate factor is mileage driven. They don't hide this information, but they don't advertise it either.

Compare State Farm's advertising to the FAQ:
Your discount is determined by how you drive, putting you in control of how much you pay. Just for signing up, you immediately save about 5% off your car insurance. Then, depending on how you drive, you could save even more.

From the video advertisement: https://www.statefarm.com/insurance/aut ... -safe-save
Does participating in Drive Safe & Save guarantee me a discount?

Drive Safe & Save is always a discount and does not surcharge your policy. The Drive Safe & Save discount is based on your annual mileage and, for Drive Safe & Save Mobile, basic driving characteristics.

https://www.statefarm.com/customer-care ... -safe-save
Since mileage is the most important factor, you could also consider a Pay Per Mile (PPM) policy if you drive less than 6,000 miles a year per car. PPM policies have much large discounts for low-mileage than UBI policies.

The most widely available PPM policies are Metromile, Allstate Milewise, and Nationwide SmartMiles. However, PPM policies are not available in every state.
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8foot7
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by 8foot7 »

I find the idea of letting any company to which I have transferred risk monitor my behavior on a continuous basis to be a non-starter, personally. The value of the monitoring, simply put, must exceed the discount I'm given, or the offer wouldn't be made.
talzara
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by talzara »

jjface wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:56 am I use it. It incorporates the low mileage discount as well so if you already receive that your bill won't be as low as you think. You have to put a small white box on the windscreen and it connects via bluetooth to your phone. The box is small (2.5" ish square) but not that discreet. The progressive version I tired a while back plugged in out of sight. I get about 15% off.
State Farm Drive Safe & Save has a maximum discount of 50% if you drive 1 mile a year. However, the low-mileage discount on a non-UBI State Farm policy is about 20%. Since you lose the 20% discount if you get the 50% discount, the maximum discount on an existing bill is about 30%.

Compare the advertisement to the fine print:
Get a discount of up to 30% on your auto insurance.1

1 Some customers could see a discount of up to 50%. Discount names, percentages, availability and eligibility may vary by state and coverage selected. Enrollment, terms and conditions apply.

https://www.statefarm.com/insurance/aut ... -safe-save
talzara
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by talzara »

Doom&Gloom wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:36 pm We have refused to use their dongle, but we do use their app to report the mileage for each vehicle every 6 or 12 months (can't recall which). We do receive discounts for that.
The low-mileage discount on a non-UBI State Farm policy is only about 20%. If you drive only 1 mile a year, you will pay 80% of the premium at 12,000 miles a year.

Usage-Based Insurance (UBI) and Pay Per Mile (PPM) policies offer much larger discounts for low-mileage. Since the insurance company is tracking your driving, they're willing to believe that you only drove a car 3,000 miles a year instead of just reporting a false odometer reading.

UBI policies will discount as much as 50%, and PPM policies will discount by 70-90% in some states.
Nicolas
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by Nicolas »

I was offered either 5% or 10% off my auto premium by AAA insurance to permit tracking, I forget which just now. I declined due to my desire for privacy. I’m no longer with AAA for insurance, but for reasons nothing to do with the offer, I found a cheaper price elsewhere.
talzara
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by talzara »

jjface wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:56 am In terms of speeding the program is not strict with the speed limit so +/-5 is fine. I am not suggesting you speed but you aren't penalised for speeding unless you go 10mph over. I don't think it is particularly strict on braking etc either so don't worry about it.
There are a lot of misconceptions about Usage Based Insurance. People think that they're using sophisticated artificial intelligence to calculate premiums. In reality, they're using very simple rate factors.

In theory, it is possible to detect speeding by using the GPS location to look up the speed limit. In practice, the insurance companies are not doing this. They're only looking for excessive speeds.
talzara
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by talzara »

JackoC wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:09 am We used the Progressive equivalent once and it was too strict on stopping, no way to drive maximally safely in our area and not get dinged fairly regularly for 'too rapid' stops at the innumerable traffic lights. You'd either have to try to make it through yellow lights every time and occasionally slightly run red ones, or slow down in anticipation if a light you were approaching has been green awhile, then give other people road rage and create an unsafe situation that way (even if they *should* behave themselves).
People get very upset at Progressive Snapshot because it's measuring "hard braking." When the device beeps, they think that it's criticizing their driving.

In reality, it should be called "frequency of braking." It's actually a proxy for how often you drive on city streets that have stoplights. Driving on city streets is more dangerous than driving on interstate highways.

As with mileage, the insurance companies are unwilling to advertise what they're actually trying to measure. People are willing to accept discounts for safe drivers. They're less willing to accept statistical segmentation.
ballons
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by ballons »

Freddobbs wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:58 am I dont know the ins and outs of this particular app, however, like most GPS units, it can tell them how often you are speeding....

Code: Select all

This app has access to:
Device ID & call information
    read phone status and identity
Storage
    read the contents of your USB storage
Camera
    take pictures and videos
Location
    approximate location (network-based)
    precise location (GPS and network-based)
    access extra location provider commands
Photos/Media/Files
    read the contents of your USB storage
Phone
    read phone status and identity
Wi-Fi connection information
    view Wi-Fi connections
Other
    receive data from Internet
    control vibration
    view network connections
    full network access
    pair with Bluetooth devices
    run at startup
    access Bluetooth settings
    prevent device from sleeping
Way more than just GPS is being collected and none of this is lowering your premiums.
afan
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by afan »

Insurance company gets my mileage each year from annual auto inspection. No need to take my word for it.
I don't know whether I would get any further discount from them knowing how that annual amount is accumulated day by day.

I am one of those infuriating drivers who always follows the speed limit and accelerates and brakes slowly. I have no problem with telling my company my mileage. I would be creeped out by having anyone read my GPS all the time. I keep GPS off unless I need it for navigation. Since almost all my driving is my daily commute, I can go for months without enabling GPS. I might be curious how much money I could save but it would have to be a lot to get me to leave it on and be tracked by SF or anyone else.

I agree one needs to shop for costs of insurance periodically. The rates for individuals depend on their details as compared to the overall risks an insurance company is willing to take. Your rates can go up for reasons completely unrelated to your behavior. Nothing to get upset about. The property and casualty insurance market is about as competitive as it can be. If your rates go up, shop for a better deal.

We have been with SF forever and no other company even comes close to matching its prices when we shop.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
RudyS
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by RudyS »

Freddobbs wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:58 am I dont know the ins and outs of this particular app, however, like most GPS units, it can tell them how often you are speeding. I worry that because I drive in and out of a major NE city daily and there is virtually no way I can maintain adequate space between vehicles (If I leave a few car lengths in front of me it is only for a moment before someone weaves in front) and may be dinged for it.

Somewhat off topic, but State Farm lost my trust years ago, I have impeccable credit, drive a monster commute daily, am honest about and have not had an accident in 30 years. They drowned me over time with rate increases. When i shopped around after well over a decade with them I saved $1500 on a two car policy with homeowners. All insurers do it, but I certainly dont need an agent getting a commission to NOT act in my best interest. Would I do it with another insurer? Maybe
I bet that major NE city is Boston! I-95/MA128 around there has a 55 mph limit; when it's not rush hours, cars average 65 to 70! How do you teach new drivers to respect the law?

As for price, I stayed with AAA way too long; finally got a round of quotes when I moved and saved a ton with Geico! It did take more than 15 minutes though.
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Nestegg_User
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by Nestegg_User »

afan wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:04 pm Insurance company gets my mileage each year from annual auto inspection. No need to take my word for it.
I don't know whether I would get any further discount from them knowing how that annual amount is accumulated day by day.

I am one of those infuriating drivers who always follows the speed limit and accelerates and brakes slowly. I have no problem with telling my company my mileage. I would be creeped out by having anyone read my GPS all the time. I keep GPS off unless I need it for navigation. Since almost all my driving is my daily commute, I can go for months without enabling GPS. I might be curious how much money I could save but it would have to be a lot to get me to leave it on and be tracked by SF or anyone else.

I agree one needs to shop for costs of insurance periodically. The rates for individuals depend on their details as compared to the overall risks an insurance company is willing to take. Your rates can go up for reasons completely unrelated to your behavior. Nothing to get upset about. The property and casualty insurance market is about as competitive as it can be. If your rates go up, shop for a better deal.

We have been with SF forever and no other company even comes close to matching its prices when we shop.
I'd been with them since the 70's! .... but when we last moved we searched for other possible providers.... together with HO and umbrella, we found significant savings (well over $1k) with another through an agent (that wasn't dedicated to only one company).
One trick that SF does is have parts of the policy paid per vehicle, even when only one would be applicable at any given time (this other company only charges once...). Similar situations occur within other policies... same CLUE score but significant differences
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yatesd
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by yatesd »

I hate the concept. A ridiculous invasion of privacy, supposed benefits that will eventually cost shift to people concerned about privacy.

Here is the thing...accelerating fast, braking fast, and speeding don't cost the insurance company any money. Driving like an idiot, not using turn signals, and wrecking ultimately costs money. If someone has an accident charge them.

I'm even against using points or tickets to raise insurance rates. The people who cause accidents should be paying for all the increases.
rivercrosser
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by rivercrosser »

talzara wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:45 pm
jjface wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:56 am In terms of speeding the program is not strict with the speed limit so +/-5 is fine. I am not suggesting you speed but you aren't penalised for speeding unless you go 10mph over. I don't think it is particularly strict on braking etc either so don't worry about it.
There are a lot of misconceptions about Usage Based Insurance. People think that they're using sophisticated artificial intelligence to calculate premiums. In reality, they're using very simple rate factors.

In theory, it is possible to detect speeding by using the GPS location to look up the speed limit. In practice, the insurance companies are not doing this. They're only looking for excessive speeds.
State Farm one knows what the speed limit is wherever your at. It won't ding you if you're a little over. I kept getting dinged in one paticuler spot until I noticed it was only a 20 mph limit and I was zipping over it about 30 or so. It will show the exact spot you speeded or if you catch a yellow light and stop too fast it will show you the exact place. It doesn't bother me its watching as long as I save a few bucks. Been getting 100% score lately. I would never put it on a teenager's car. One thing I like is you can go back and look at app and tell how far you went from one point to another.
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carolinaman
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by carolinaman »

rivercrosser wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:34 am
carolinaman wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:23 am Thanks for everyone's replies. We have 2 cars. I have a smarphone but my wife does not. Can we still use this feature for both cars?
If she's the only one that drives one of the vehicles it wont work. It uses the smart phone to function. If you drove it some you may get by with it. Every so often it will ask to update your mileage on the app. Same thing with us, the wife just had a flip phone so I never signed up her Cherokee. I did fix her up with an old smart phone I had the other day but she's struggling with it so I'm leaving it off her vehicle for now. I rarely drive it. The other thing I don't like is you have to leave your Bluetooth on for it to work and that's just one more thing draining the phone battery.
Thanks rivercrosser. Good info. Your situation is similar to mine. Getting a smart phone for my DW is a non starter. I do drive DW's care some, maybe once a week. Would that work?
jpelder
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by jpelder »

I've been using Drive Safe and Save for a couple of years now. We got a 15% discount on DW's share of the insurance (we each commute in our own cars, but use mine for almost all long-distance drives together). I think mine only got the base 5% discount for using the service. I'm not terribly skeeved by the privacy implications (or, at least, I feel like I'm at least getting compensated for it).

Others' speculation that most of the discount is mileage-based is probably true. I speed less, brake and accelerate less sharply, and corner slower than DW, but she gets a bigger discount than I do. Her commute is half as long as mine (or, it was, back when we were still commuting)
talzara
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Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by talzara »

rivercrosser wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:11 pm State Farm one knows what the speed limit is wherever your at. It won't ding you if you're a little over. I kept getting dinged in one paticuler spot until I noticed it was only a 20 mph limit and I was zipping over it about 30 or so. It will show the exact spot you speeded or if you catch a yellow light and stop too fast it will show you the exact place. It doesn't bother me its watching as long as I save a few bucks. Been getting 100% score lately. I would never put it on a teenager's car. One thing I like is you can go back and look at app and tell how far you went from one point to another.
The State Farm app does not display your true driving score. It displays a different score that is calculated in a different way.

State Farm does not look at speeding when it calculates your premium. That information is provided to encourage you to drive slower. It also makes people paranoid about the data that State Farm is collecting, which encourages riskier drivers to self-select out of the Drive Safe & Save risk pool.
What type of driving feedback is gathered?

...

Speed – The app shows you when you’ve exceeded the speed limit by 8 miles per hour or more. While discount calculation doesn’t compare your speed with posted speed limits, we think it’s important for you to understand when this happens – and maybe how it impacts other driving characteristics, like hard braking and fast acceleration.

https://www.statefarm.com/customer-care ... -safe-save
afan
Posts: 5208
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:01 pm

Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by afan »

yatesd wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:51 pm

Here is the thing...accelerating fast, braking fast, and speeding don't cost the insurance company any money. Driving like an idiot, not using turn signals, and wrecking ultimately costs money. If someone has an accident charge them.

I'm even against using points or tickets to raise insurance rates. The people who cause accidents should be paying for all the increases.
Insurance companies base their rates on data.

Their data shows that people who get speeding tickets cost them more money to insure, so they charge those people higher rates, or drop them entirely. If speeding did not predict insurance costs then companies would not use speeding history as a factor in setting rates.

The insurance companies do not want to wait for drivers to cause accidents to adjust their rates. One accident can cost a fortune in liability payments. They may well simply drop a driver after an accident. The company wants a panel of customers who are unlikely to cause accidents in the future. Those with a record of speeding are more likely to cause accidents so they pay higher insurance, if they can get coverage at all.

If they really are no higher risk then companies could make a fortune by selling them insurance at rates higher than slower drivers but less than market for such drivers. They would get lots of business and according to your thinking, they would not see higher costs. Great business model. Except that the speeders really do lead to higher costs.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
talzara
Posts: 1131
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by talzara »

ballons wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:35 pm

Code: Select all

This app has access to:
Device ID & call information
    read phone status and identity
Storage
    read the contents of your USB storage
Camera
    take pictures and videos
Location
    approximate location (network-based)
    precise location (GPS and network-based)
    access extra location provider commands
Photos/Media/Files
    read the contents of your USB storage
Phone
    read phone status and identity
Wi-Fi connection information
    view Wi-Fi connections
Other
    receive data from Internet
    control vibration
    view network connections
    full network access
    pair with Bluetooth devices
    run at startup
    access Bluetooth settings
    prevent device from sleeping
Way more than just GPS is being collected and none of this is lowering your premiums.
Like other poorly-designed apps, the State Farm app is requesting more permissions than it actually needs.

None of that information is used to calculate your premium.
talzara
Posts: 1131
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by talzara »

afan wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:04 pm Insurance company gets my mileage each year from annual auto inspection. No need to take my word for it.
I don't know whether I would get any further discount from them knowing how that annual amount is accumulated day by day.
The low-mileage discount on a traditional policy is only about 20%. If you drive 1 mile a year, you pay 80% the premium of driving 12,000 miles a year.

Usage-Based Insurance (UBI) and Pay Per Mile (PPM) policies offer low-mileage discounts of up to 50-90%, which scale based on mileage. If you drive 1 mile a year, you pay 10-50% as much as driving 12,000 miles a year.

The insurance companies just don't trust odometer readings. They only began offering deep discounts for low mileage after they had the technology to watch you accumulate the mileage.

I'm skeptical that odometer rollback fraud is commonplace. People pay thousands of dollars for cars based on odometer readings. However, that's what the insurance companies believe.
ballons
Posts: 441
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:05 pm

Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by ballons »

talzara wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 12:21 pm Like other poorly-designed apps, the State Farm app is requesting more permissions than it actually needs.

None of that information is used to calculate your premium.
I have a bridge for sale if you believe that.
JackoC
Posts: 1729
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:14 am

Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by JackoC »

talzara wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:47 pm
JackoC wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:09 am We used the Progressive equivalent once and it was too strict on stopping, no way to drive maximally safely in our area and not get dinged fairly regularly for 'too rapid' stops at the innumerable traffic lights. You'd either have to try to make it through yellow lights every time and occasionally slightly run red ones, or slow down in anticipation if a light you were approaching has been green awhile, then give other people road rage and create an unsafe situation that way (even if they *should* behave themselves).
People get very upset at Progressive Snapshot because it's measuring "hard braking." When the device beeps, they think that it's criticizing their driving.

In reality, it should be called "frequency of braking." It's actually a proxy for how often you drive on city streets that have stoplights. Driving on city streets is more dangerous than driving on interstate highways.

As with mileage, the insurance companies are unwilling to advertise what they're actually trying to measure. People are willing to accept discounts for safe drivers. They're less willing to accept statistical segmentation.
Maybe there's something to that, but the most dangerous driving, especially for big payouts from really bad accidents rather than city fender benders, is smaller rural roads. I don't see how the device would distinguish those from interstates, by how often you completely stop at least. I tend to think it's also just that the technology wasn't (or perhaps isn't this was a while ago) completely developed and thought out all around. You could stop the device registering often at red lights, but by being more aggressive getting through yellow lights. :happy
talzara
Posts: 1131
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by talzara »

ballons wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 2:48 pm
talzara wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 12:21 pm Like other poorly-designed apps, the State Farm app is requesting more permissions than it actually needs.

None of that information is used to calculate your premium.
I have a bridge for sale if you believe that.
Insurance is a regulated industry. All the rate manuals are filed with the state insurance commissioners. In about a dozen states that use prior approval systems, the rates must first be reviewed before they can be used, a process that can take months or even years. Once a rate has been approved, the insurance company is required by law to follow the rate manual.

The additional information that the State Farm app is requesting permission to access -- photos, videos, phone calls, etc. -- is not used to calculate premiums for Usage Based Insurance policies. The driving behavior models are very simple, much simpler than the advertising would make you believe.

If you have evidence that State Farm is using information that's not disclosed in its rate manual, please bring it to the attention of your state insurance commissioner.
talzara
Posts: 1131
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by talzara »

JackoC wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 4:44 pm Maybe there's something to that, but the most dangerous driving, especially for big payouts from really bad accidents rather than city fender benders, is smaller rural roads. I don't see how the device would distinguish those from interstates, by how often you completely stop at least. I tend to think it's also just that the technology wasn't (or perhaps isn't this was a while ago) completely developed and thought out all around. You could stop the device registering often at red lights, but by being more aggressive getting through yellow lights. :happy
The insurance companies do not distinguish between rural highways and interstates. They could do it by looking at location, but they do not use this information to calculate premiums. Crashes on rural highways will get averaged in with crashes on interstates. This dilutes the braking factor. However, driving on rural highways and interstates is still safer than driving on city streets.

If people are gaming the braking measurement by driving through yellow lights, then they will cause more crashes. This will also get averaged in.

Insurance does not require the technology to be "completely developed and thought out all around." It only has to work on average. Some dangerous drivers will get an unwarranted discount, and some safe drivers will get an unjustified surcharge. However, most of the time it works the other way.

This is like using age, sex, and marital status to set rates. It doesn't work perfectly. It works on average.
ballons
Posts: 441
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:05 pm

Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by ballons »

talzara wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 11:05 am Insurance is a regulated industry. All the rate manuals are filed with the state insurance commissioners. In about a dozen states that use prior approval systems, the rates must first be reviewed before they can be used, a process that can take months or even years. Once a rate has been approved, the insurance company is required by law to follow the rate manual.

The additional information that the State Farm app is requesting permission to access -- photos, videos, phone calls, etc. -- is not used to calculate premiums for Usage Based Insurance policies. The driving behavior models are very simple, much simpler than the advertising would make you believe.

If you have evidence that State Farm is using information that's not disclosed in its rate manual, please bring it to the attention of your state insurance commissioner.
Can State Farm use any collected information from the smartphone app to investigate insurance claims?
Can State Farm use any collected information from the smartphone app to investigate insurance fraud?
Tracker968
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:32 pm

Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by Tracker968 »

I tried the Metlife version of this a few years ago. I drive a pickup truck and generally drive very conservatively to eek out an extra 1/2mpg. The darn thing kept telling me I had excessive aceleration and deceleration. I would say I was in the slowest 10% of drivers in acel/decel. I think I saved 5% for a few years, but haven't done it again since.
talzara
Posts: 1131
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by talzara »

ballons wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 3:55 pm Can State Farm use any collected information from the smartphone app to investigate insurance claims?
Can State Farm use any collected information from the smartphone app to investigate insurance fraud?
You should not commit insurance fraud or give false information to insurance adjusters.

State Farm can use data that is collected for Drive Safe & Save to investigate claims. For example, DS&S collects location data. Insurance companies have used this information to discover fraud rings that were staging crashes. A policyholder would claim that a crash happened in one location, but the telematics data would show that the car was in another location.

You were objecting to the additional information collected by the app. State Farm is not using computer vision to scan the photos on your phone to see if you were drinking. It's not using the microphone to record everything that you say before the crash. It's not using the phone's camera to spy on you while you're driving.

The app also has permission to check the phone status, but that only tells them if you were on a phone call. It doesn't tell them if you were using the speakerphone or the handset. They can't tell if you were holding the phone in your hand, because the app doesn't request accelerometer data. They don't even know if you were texting before the crash. They can get a lot more information directly from the phone company.
ballons
Posts: 441
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:05 pm

Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by ballons »

talzara wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 11:29 am State Farm can use data that is collected for Drive Safe & Save to investigate claims.
"Way more than just GPS is being collected and none of this is lowering your premiums."

No kidding. Guess what claims affect? Premiums.
JackoC
Posts: 1729
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:14 am

Re: State Farm Safe Driving App

Post by JackoC »

talzara wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 11:55 am
JackoC wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 4:44 pm Maybe there's something to that, but the most dangerous driving, especially for big payouts from really bad accidents rather than city fender benders, is smaller rural roads. I don't see how the device would distinguish those from interstates, by how often you completely stop at least. I tend to think it's also just that the technology wasn't (or perhaps isn't this was a while ago) completely developed and thought out all around. You could stop the device registering often at red lights, but by being more aggressive getting through yellow lights. :happy
1. The insurance companies do not distinguish between rural highways and interstates. They could do it by looking at location, but they do not use this information to calculate premiums. Crashes on rural highways will get averaged in with crashes on interstates. This dilutes the braking factor. However, driving on rural highways and interstates is still safer than driving on city streets.

2. If people are gaming the braking measurement by driving through yellow lights, then they will cause more crashes. This will also get averaged in.

3. Insurance does not require the technology to be "completely developed and thought out all around." It only has to work on average.
1. Right, the point being that lack of frequent stops doesn't reliably indicate safer driving conditions befitting a lower insurance rate.

2. Pushing more aggressively through yellow lights might cause more accidents? You may be onto something there. :D But the point is, the device they are (or were) giving out creates an incentive to push it a bit more.

3. And they could also come up with a tool that at least at first doesn't accomplish what they want it to. Back to red lights, some municipalities installed red light cameras that generate summons if a driver is still anywhere in the intersection when the light turns red. Some were actually trying to make the roads safer, though there was also a pernicious ticket revenue motivation. But it's now I believe been generally recognized that those cameras reduce safety via the opposite effect of Progressive Snapshot: they make people slam on the brakes to avoid a ticket thus causing more rear end collisions, drivers are probably better off just using their judgement even if still barely in the intersection when the light turns red sometimes. In both cases it's possible a simple technological device decreases safety as compared to just leaving stop/go decisions at yellow light to drivers' judgement. Not every innovation works, or works right away, the way it's supposed to.
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