Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Topic Author
SimpleMan68
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:19 am
Location: Michigan

Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by SimpleMan68 »

I have read that many jurisdictions have put a moratorium on evictions, except in exceptional cases. This would have the effect of a landlord being forced to subsidize a nonpaying tenant. Is anyone aware of anything in the stimulus bills that have passed that would help landlords deal with this situation? I am interested in the small, local landlord who might be operating as an LLC or Sole Proprietor.
SimpleMan68 | We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.
dpm321
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:04 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by dpm321 »

I’m in the same situation and I’m in a state that is prohibiting evictions and foreclosures. Only one of my tenants has announced that he is unable to pay rent this month. I told him to pay me what he could and we would work out a repayment plan once the madness is over.

Directly to your question, I have not found anything in the bill that protects small landlords. [OT comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy] The current bill does provide generous tax breaks for developers.
Slacker
Posts: 794
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by Slacker »

You could try talking to your mortgage company.
User avatar
welderwannabe
Posts: 1220
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:32 am

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by welderwannabe »

I have seen a lot of people lobbying their state government to suspend rent payments entirely. Im not a fan of that plan, but just keep it in mind if it were to happen. Not sure how it could legally, but that isn't my expertise.
I am not an investment professional, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 11763
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: Hawaii No Ka Oi , N. Arizona

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by Sandtrap »

SimpleMan68 wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:29 am I have read that many jurisdictions have put a moratorium on evictions, except in exceptional cases. This would have the effect of a landlord being forced to subsidize a nonpaying tenant. Is anyone aware of anything in the stimulus bills that have passed that would help landlords deal with this situation? I am interested in the small, local landlord who might be operating as an LLC or Sole Proprietor.
AFAIK (as far as I know) which is not much, the stimulus bill focuses on Fed owned and/or subsidized, and/or leased (from private), public housing rental units. Private ownership landlords that have no agreements or contracts with the feds or fed rent subsidized programs or Sec. 8. do not apply.

That is from the Fed involvement point of view. However, local county and states can effect rent control measures.

If a private owner/landlord were to take advantage of any fed subsidies, etc, offered, if it is available, then I suspect there would be a "tit for tat" reciprocal arrangement where the landlord would have to conform to the fed tenant guidelines as well. But that is unknown.

Interested in what others more informed have found out in the Stimulus Bill as written.

j :happy
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know
User avatar
billthecat
Posts: 534
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:50 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by billthecat »

Does your landlord insurance cover missed rent?
We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails.
Topic Author
SimpleMan68
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:19 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by SimpleMan68 »

billthecat wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:39 am Does your landlord insurance cover missed rent?
That is a great question and something I had not thought of. Consulting my insurance policy it seems "loss of rents" only kicks in when the structure is unfit to live in.
SimpleMan68 | We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.
Oddball
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 9:35 am

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by Oddball »

"Today, to keep renters in multifamily properties in their home and to support multifamily property owners during the coronavirus national emergency, the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA) is announcing that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (the Enterprises) will offer multifamily property owners mortgage forbearance with the condition that they suspend all evictions for renters unable to pay rent due to the impact of coronavirus."

https://www.fhfa.gov/Media/PublicAffair ... rties.aspx
Topic Author
SimpleMan68
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:19 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by SimpleMan68 »

Oddball wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:43 am "Today, to keep renters in multifamily properties in their home and to support multifamily property owners during the coronavirus national emergency, the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA) is announcing that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (the Enterprises) will offer multifamily property owners mortgage forbearance with the condition that they suspend all evictions for renters unable to pay rent due to the impact of coronavirus."

https://www.fhfa.gov/Media/PublicAffair ... rties.aspx
Thanks Oddball. This applies to landlords with government-backed mortgages. It appears that those with another type of mortgage or no mortgage are expected to "eat it" , at least for now.
SimpleMan68 | We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.
HEDGEFUNDIE
Posts: 4801
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:06 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

I have proactively forgiven my tenant's rent for three months.

Not his fault I chose to leverage up my investment property with a mortgage.
User avatar
Stanczyk
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:56 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by Stanczyk »

What worries me is the amount of comments on social media surrounding this issue where people express their disdain for their landlords and take these changes in law as an opportunity so stop paying and [ignore -- mod oldcomputerguy] the landlord.
mega317
Posts: 4582
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:55 am

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by mega317 »

milosz19 wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:58 am What worries me is the amount of comments on social media surrounding this issue where people express their disdain for their landlords
For this reason, helping landlords is not popular and so I wouldn't expect it.
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6212
User avatar
knpstr
Posts: 2890
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:57 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by knpstr »

I'm a very small time landlord but most of my rents have been received already. No one has indicated they won't be paying. I have enough reserves to press on and deal with it later if some/all miss in the future.

In Michigan evictions are also forbidden - actually it is illegal to even give a notice to pay at this time from what I read.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
User avatar
Stanczyk
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:56 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by Stanczyk »

In a way, landlords might end up subsidizing the tenants. What is wrong is that states will prevent landlords from evicting, but they still expect property taxes paid. It would not surprise me if a big chunk of non-paying tenants will stop paying by choice, because they can.
Seasonal
Posts: 2098
Joined: Sun May 21, 2017 1:49 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by Seasonal »

mega317 wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:05 pm
milosz19 wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:58 am What worries me is the amount of comments on social media surrounding this issue where people express their disdain for their landlords
For this reason, helping landlords is not popular and so I wouldn't expect it.
Lots of things that are unpopular pass and lots of things that are very popular don't pass.

What people do about bills do April 1 will have a major impact. As the WSJ puts it "America’s Make-or-Break Week
The bills are now coming due for big companies and millions of laid-off workers. Decisions made in the next few days will shape how coronavirus impacts the economy."
student
Posts: 5161
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by student »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:46 am I have proactively forgiven my tenant's rent for three months.

Not his fault I chose to leverage up my investment property with a mortgage.
That's nice of you. Forgiven, not postponed. Very generous.
Last edited by student on Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
student
Posts: 5161
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by student »

milosz19 wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:10 pm In a way, landlords might end up subsidizing the tenants. What is wrong is that states will prevent landlords from evicting, but they still expect property taxes paid. It would not surprise me if a big chunk of non-paying tenants will stop paying by choice, because they can.
This is typical behavior of those who are generous with other people's money. To make this actionable. Think twice before deciding to be a landlord.
TheRightKost87
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:25 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by TheRightKost87 »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:46 am I have proactively forgiven my tenant's rent for three months.

Not his fault I chose to leverage up my investment property with a mortgage.
Can I move in too? I could go for 3 months of rent-free living.
"The problem with diversification is that it works, whether or not we want it to"
User avatar
knpstr
Posts: 2890
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:57 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by knpstr »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:46 am I have proactively forgiven my tenant's rent for three months.

Not his fault I chose to leverage up my investment property with a mortgage.
Nor is it your fault that this coronavirus situation happened.

All of my renters are lower income so if they are working, they can pay. If they are laid off they will likely be "making" more money per week with this new UI plan (normal benefits + $600 per week) on top of that $1,200 is coming in a few weeks.

That being said if they choose not to pay, I have no recourse, at this time.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
kksmom
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:07 am

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by kksmom »

Some info on the biggerpockets thread

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/49 ... rds?page=1
User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 11763
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: Hawaii No Ka Oi , N. Arizona

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by Sandtrap »

This was in the Hawaii newspaper.
But, addresses tenant issues.
Property owners are prohibited from filing for eviction or charging any fees for unpaid rent until July 26 to tenants who occupy properties with federally guaranteed loans or properties that participate in federal housing programs.
j :happy
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know
LeftCoast
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:19 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by LeftCoast »

First, I don't think small landlords are getting any help in the stimulus bills. It looks like you need to have employees to get any help.

Second, in my jurisdiction (California), tenants who have been laid off, are ill, or are taking care of children while schools are closed, can't be evicted for failure to pay rent, at least for the months of April and May. Of course, the government may extend that period. Once the government declares the emergency to be over, the tenants six months to repay the rent that wasn't paid. I expect that the government will change the rules and the repayment period will become 12 months. After that time, there will be a push to forgive the unpaid rent, at which point the landlords will sue the government for a "taking without compensation". It's going to be a mess. In the meantime, my property taxes are due on April 10th, and the government isn't deferring that obligation.

That being said, I've already received some rents for April from tenants who are employed and working from home. It will be very interesting to see who pays rent and who doesn't. One of my tenants is a barber, and I know that his shop has closed. I don't know who has savings and who doesn't. I don't know who will use their savings to pay rent and who will hang on to savings and not pay rent. As this virus is not their fault, I intend to be compassionate. However, one thing I believe is that rent-controlled tenants who have scammed me in the past will try to scam me on this as well.
fareastwarriors
Posts: 1264
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:31 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by fareastwarriors »

Here in Oakland, it's a whole new world. Unlimited time to "repay" and can't evict.

Renters must still pay the full back rent to their landlords—there’s no rent freeze included—but no matter how long repayment takes, it can never be used as grounds to evict.
https://sf.curbed.com/2020/3/30/2119857 ... moratorium
dcop
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:06 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by dcop »

As many of us BH's have been posting about all our investments being down our common theme has been 'there is nowhere to hide'. Well, the income property investors just joined us.
User avatar
knpstr
Posts: 2890
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:57 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by knpstr »

fareastwarriors wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:30 pm Here in Oakland, it's a whole new world. Unlimited time to "repay" and can't evict.

Renters must still pay the full back rent to their landlords—there’s no rent freeze included—but no matter how long repayment takes, it can never be used as grounds to evict.
https://sf.curbed.com/2020/3/30/2119857 ... moratorium
That's too bad. Guess there is a non-renew coming, then. Hope everyone is on month-to-month so they can be kicked out sooner if they try to stiff landlords.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
cs412a
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:37 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by cs412a »

kksmom wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:40 pmSome info on the biggerpockets thread

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/49 ... rds?page=1
Here's the link to the SBA disaster loans program. https://www.sba.gov/disaster-assistance ... s-covid-19

Seems like it would apply to landlords.
dave_k
Posts: 401
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:25 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by dave_k »

We lost at least one booking of our vacation home in FL. Florida went so far as to forbid upcoming vacation renters from coming, and told existing ones they should leave (although they have the option of staying put). I don't suppose we'd qualify for anything in the situation that vacationers decided not to keep their booking at a time like this, especially since it's not a significant source of income other than to cover the property, but when the government steps in and forces people to lose business, they really should have to compensate them. Especially when workers and small (and large) businesses are being helped - why should we lose out? I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for owners of vacation homes, especially if they aren't doing it as a main business. But for people that do rely on rental income and could end up going under (I have family in that situation), I hope there's some recognition and consideration coming. The prevailing attitude seems to be that only workers are worth helping, and the only reason small businesses are getting help is because they are having trouble paying workers. Owners, landlords, and shareholders be damned. (Yes, I know shareholders are being helped by the stimulus, but that attitude is prevalent and bugs me).
Dottie57
Posts: 9198
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm
Location: Earth Northern Hemisphere

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by Dottie57 »

dave_k wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:34 pm We lost at least one booking of our vacation home in FL. Florida went so far as to forbid upcoming vacation renters from coming, and told existing ones they should leave (although they have the option of staying put). I don't suppose we'd qualify for anything in the situation that vacationers decided not to keep their booking at a time like this, especially since it's not a significant source of income other than to cover the property, but when the government steps in and forces people to lose business, they really should have to compensate them. Especially when workers and small (and large) businesses are being helped - why should we lose out? I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for owners of vacation homes, especially if they aren't doing it as a main business. But for people that do rely on rental income and could end up going under (I have family in that situation), I hope there's some recognition and consideration coming. The prevailing attitude seems to be that only workers are worth helping, and the only reason small businesses are getting help is because they are having trouble paying workers. Owners, landlords, and shareholders be damned. (Yes, I know shareholders are being helped by the stimulus, but that attitude is prevalent and bugs me).
Just a note on justification for stopping evictions in my state. The reasoning is really about public health. Don’t want unhomed people wandering streets perhaps spreading disease. After stay at home period people will be expected to pay missed rent.

I realize this is really bad for landlords.
fareastwarriors
Posts: 1264
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:31 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by fareastwarriors »

knpstr wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:04 pm
fareastwarriors wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:30 pm Here in Oakland, it's a whole new world. Unlimited time to "repay" and can't evict.

Renters must still pay the full back rent to their landlords—there’s no rent freeze included—but no matter how long repayment takes, it can never be used as grounds to evict.
https://sf.curbed.com/2020/3/30/2119857 ... moratorium
That's too bad. Guess there is a non-renew coming, then. Hope everyone is on month-to-month so they can be kicked out sooner if they try to stiff landlords.
If only it was that easy...need just cause
User avatar
knpstr
Posts: 2890
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:57 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by knpstr »

fareastwarriors wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:14 pm
knpstr wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:04 pm
fareastwarriors wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:30 pm Here in Oakland, it's a whole new world. Unlimited time to "repay" and can't evict.

Renters must still pay the full back rent to their landlords—there’s no rent freeze included—but no matter how long repayment takes, it can never be used as grounds to evict.
https://sf.curbed.com/2020/3/30/2119857 ... moratorium
That's too bad. Guess there is a non-renew coming, then. Hope everyone is on month-to-month so they can be kicked out sooner if they try to stiff landlords.
If only it was that easy...need just cause
In Michigan just cause is "just cause I said so".
Perhaps in California you can cite "irreconcilable differences" haha.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
SilverGirl
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:55 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by SilverGirl »

student wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:16 pm
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:46 am I have proactively forgiven my tenant's rent for three months.

Not his fault I chose to leverage up my investment property with a mortgage.
That's nice of you. Forgiven, not postponed. Very generous.
If my landlord (for my very suddenly struggling) business building did this I would sleep more than two hours per night these days.

Bless you.
SilverGirl
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:55 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by SilverGirl »

Landlords, can you tell your tenant a number you need to pay your mortgage and forgive the rest for a month or two? I intend to be honest with mine and tell him the amount I can pay to also keep enough in my account to keep my skeleton crew working and keep our doors open until we hopefully get some help from the stimulus.

Our lease is up in two years and we have been perfect tenants for many years... I want to preserve a good relationship but really hope he will be as generous as possible.
spectec
Posts: 1564
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:00 am

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by spectec »

I was looking at the process for applying for an Economic Injury Disaster Loan through the SBA for a client today, and I noted this line item --->Rental Properties (Residential and Commercial) Only - Lost Rents Due to the Disaster <---.

This makes me think there may be some relief for landlords through this program, but my focus was in an unrelated area. In any event, a landlord might find some relief by exploring this program at https://www.sba.gov
Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it. - Will Rogers
SilverGirl
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:55 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by SilverGirl »

spectec wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:23 pm I was looking at the process for applying for an Economic Injury Disaster Loan through the SBA for a client today, and I noted this line item --->Rental Properties (Residential and Commercial) Only - Lost Rents Due to the Disaster <---.

This makes me think there may be some relief for landlords through this program, but my focus was in an unrelated area. In any event, a landlord might find some relief by exploring this program at https://www.sba.gov
This is good to know! Maybe I can suggest to my landlord ...
renue74
Posts: 1873
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:24 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by renue74 »

I'm not saying this is appropriate, but in my small window of being a landlord (7 years), I've found that when I have tenants sign the 1st year lease, I used a standard state rental agreement and it auto renews to a month to month lease after the 12 months.

Many landlord friends of mine sometimes forget to renew a lease for a 12 month period after the initial lease agreement was signed and go on a month to month lease.

Also...many times, the tenant forgets about the fact they are on a month to month lease.

If a tenant is not paying and a landlord sees they could pay (job not lost, etc.), landlords should review their lease agreements.

My standard lease agreement is a 30 day auto renew...so on April 1st, if I didn't want a couple of my tenants, I could inform them in writing that I'm not renewing their month to month lease and they will need to move by May 1st.

I just reviewed my leases and out of 10 properties, 3 of mine are on month to month auto renew leases. I would wait this out before doing this, though.

I've only had one person tell me they can't pay in April and it was not a tenant...but a seller finance note I have. The person bought a office condo from me and I gave her a 30 year mortgage. She owns a hair salon and it's shut down. I told her I would defer the April mortgage payment to May 1 and just push back the amortization schedule one month. We'll revisit in May. She's been an excellent payer and I would not jeopardize our relationship for a few months of bad business where she can't pay.
dave_k
Posts: 401
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:25 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by dave_k »

Dottie57 wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:41 pm Just a note on justification for stopping evictions in my state. The reasoning is really about public health. Don’t want unhomed people wandering streets perhaps spreading disease. After stay at home period people will be expected to pay missed rent.

I realize this is really bad for landlords.
I don't disagree with the need to hold off on evictions right now, but that should come along with an expectation that those receiving the significant unemployment benefits continue paying their rent (or catch up when the money finally arrives), directly making landlords whole (or mostly so) for rent lost due to non-evictable non-paying tenants, and allowing for penalty free late mortgage and property tax payments for landlords that are temporarily underwater meanwhile (with help as needed for the municipalities and banks that would then be affected), and/or cheap temporary loans. I must admit I haven't looked into it in enough detail to know whether some or most of these things are actually in the bill (loans seem to be), but I hope that whatever isn't is addressed in the next bill that will inevitably be needed.
User avatar
knpstr
Posts: 2890
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:57 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by knpstr »

dave_k wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:38 pm I don't disagree with the need to hold off on evictions right now, but that should come along with an expectation that those receiving the significant unemployment benefits continue paying their rent (or catch up when the money finally arrives), directly making landlords whole (or mostly so) for rent lost due to non-evictable non-paying tenants, and allowing for penalty free late mortgage and property tax payments for landlords that are temporarily underwater meanwhile (with help as needed for the municipalities and banks that would then be affected), and/or cheap temporary loans. I must admit I haven't looked into it in enough detail to know whether some or most of these things are actually in the bill (loans seem to be), but I hope that whatever isn't is addressed in the next bill that will inevitably be needed.
To be clear, the purpose of expanded UI benefits and $1,200 payment is precisely for people to be able to pay rent/mortgage/utility bills. So anyone claiming they can't pay (and doesn't immediately pay all money due after restriction is lifted) gets no mercy when the restrictions are done.

(Thankfully all most all of my rent is collected already for April.)

EID loan is not "handout" like everyone else is getting. Going into debt may be necessary to stay alive but it isn't a "great deal". And certainly isn't going to make a landlord feel better about a tenant choosing to not pay them while they are forced to go into debt because their tenant doesn't want to pay.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
dave_k
Posts: 401
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:25 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by dave_k »

knpstr wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:45 pm To be clear, the purpose of expanded UI benefits and $1,200 payment is precisely for people to be able to pay rent/mortgage/utility bills. So anyone claiming they can't pay (and doesn't immediately pay all money due after restriction is lifted) gets no mercy when the restrictions are done.
Yes, and ideally if a tenant uses this as an opportunity to pay nothing during a drawn out ultimate eviction, the landlord would have a claim for some compensation under this bill or a follow on (beyond suing a tenant that has little to go after). Not holding my breath on this though.
knpstr wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:45 pm EID loan is not "handout" like everyone else is getting. Going into debt may be necessary to stay alive but it isn't a "great deal". And certainly isn't going to make a landlord feel better about a tenant choosing to not pay them while they are forced to go into debt because their tenant doesn't want to pay.
Agreed!
Carefreeap
Posts: 2867
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:36 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by Carefreeap »

SilverGirl wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:22 pm Landlords, can you tell your tenant a number you need to pay your mortgage and forgive the rest for a month or two? I intend to be honest with mine and tell him the amount I can pay to also keep enough in my account to keep my skeleton crew working and keep our doors open until we hopefully get some help from the stimulus.

Our lease is up in two years and we have been perfect tenants for many years... I want to preserve a good relationship but really hope he will be as generous as possible.
I'm thinking about something like this although I hope my tenant comes up with a plan to present to me. He owns a hair salon and says he's down to two customers a day vs 12-14. According to his governor he's covered under Personal Services but I have to wonder with that kind of drop in business whether it makes sense to keep the doors open.

We've spent so much money on repairs during the time they have been there that my DH is not excited about forgiving any rent. It's not been their fault when houses hit a certain age (in this case 40) a bunch of stuff tends to happen all at once.

We're going to have to work cooperatively together. Our house is on the luxury end in a neighborhood with many 2nd and 3rd homeowners. I think rents may very well drop again (like they did in 2008).
Every day I can hike is a good day.
SilverGirl
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:55 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by SilverGirl »

FYI. As a tenant we do have an emergency fund. We save and are responsible and have never missed rent in 12 years. Who could predict this? We can pay our rent but if this drags on for many more months everyone is going to have to get realistic. We make exceptions for our customers who lost their jobs and don’t require a two week notice (I own a child care center). Sure I could get my lawyer after them and point out they signed an agreement to give notice but I have a heart. Their emergency becomes my problem because I care about them. I can’t have a business without customers and a landlord doesn’t have income without a tenant. I agree that tenants should meet their obligations but landlords need to also give a little and perhaps give up some profit here (if unwilling to take a loss like the rest of us)

Sorry I probably don’t belong here as a tenant. I just wanted to comment on hedgefundie’s kindness and got carried away.
dave_k
Posts: 401
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:25 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by dave_k »

SilverGirl wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:24 pm FYI. As a tenant we do have an emergency fund. We save and are responsible and have never missed rent in 12 years. Who could predict this? We can pay our rent but if this drags on for many more months everyone is going to have to get realistic. We make exceptions for our customers who lost their jobs and don’t require a two week notice (I own a child care center). Sure I could get my lawyer after them and point out they signed an agreement to give notice but I have a heart. Their emergency becomes my problem because I care about them. I can’t have a business without customers and a landlord doesn’t have income without a tenant. I agree that tenants should meet their obligations but landlords need to also give a little and perhaps give up some profit here (if unwilling to take a loss like the rest of us)

Sorry I probably don’t belong here as a tenant. I just wanted to comment on hedgefundie’s kindness and got carried away.
Thanks for your perspective. I agree that landlords should have some compassion for good tenants put in a difficult situation, and we're all going to have to share in the pain to some degree. We just need the bailout/stimulus to not be so tenant focused that all the relief is directed at them and landlords are expected to absorb all the pain.
EddyB
Posts: 1448
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by EddyB »

milosz19 wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:10 pm In a way, landlords might end up subsidizing the tenants. What is wrong is that states will prevent landlords from evicting, but they still expect property taxes paid. It would not surprise me if a big chunk of non-paying tenants will stop paying by choice, because they can.
In some states, utilities can't be turned off now, either, so presumably if a tenant doesn't pay those bills, the landlord also ends up with the utility bill (at least when the utility has lien power).

And many part-time landlords who are successful in their primary jobs can't deduct their rental losses.
SilverGirl
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:55 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by SilverGirl »

FYI the ppp loan program can be used to meet payroll and rent obligations. I think there is a lot of confusion, thousands have already applied and we just don’t know how soon this will come through. All of this is scary, I have to pay employees to not be at work because their kids school closed. Not sure how I am supposed to fund that (even if a tax credit later offsets it) and what if they give out all 350 billion before I get a turn? How do they know this is enough?

FWIW I mentioned a landlord doesn’t have an income without a tenant. Tenants like me don’t have a business without a building. I have no intention of trying to leave my landlord holding the bag. Hopefully we can all have some honest conversations and work this out for everyone’s benefit. I agree much of this legislation seems unfair to landlords. Seems ridiculous that back rent can roll indefinitely!
User avatar
knpstr
Posts: 2890
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:57 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by knpstr »

dave_k wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:20 pm Yes, and ideally if a tenant uses this as an opportunity to pay nothing during a drawn out ultimate eviction, the landlord would have a claim for some compensation under this bill or a follow on (beyond suing a tenant that has little to go after). Not holding my breath on this though.
Definitely nothing in this bill to compensate and highly unlikely in any others. Just small claims.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
WhyNotUs
Posts: 1770
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:38 am

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by WhyNotUs »

There are regular posts on this forum from people looking to rent a home they used to live in or to purchase a property that many of us suggest is not viable. The differences is in the financial model one uses and in particular the expense side of the analysis. Landlords who have lived through recessions offer a far more conservative analysis because they have lived through this before.

FWIW, I will be meeting with a tenant later this week to see what their conditions are and whether they will be able to pay. In 2009, I had more rental investments and even with being conservative it was a tight situation.

I feel for your situation, this could go on for months. The people who leveraged for VRBO-type rentals in pricey markets are really getting creamed right now. Some are stiffing guests and others are refunding guests with money that they may have already spent. Proving once again that there is no free lunch, 2020 version.

A next generation of landlords with a sharper pencil and mortgagers with big concerns are likely outcomes if this lingers for months. Best wishes for you. They feds are already talking about the next stimulus, if you can afford a K Street lawyer you might get something.
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
Kennedy
Posts: 589
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:47 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by Kennedy »

I agree that the landlord should not be the one to get stiffed. I don't have any mortgages on my rental, but I use the rent to pay taxes and for repairs, etc. I'm anticipating that my tenants won't pay (hoping I'll be pleasantly surprised) but yet I'm still expected to cough up money to repair the air condition, plumbing and dishwasher.
smitcat
Posts: 6490
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by smitcat »

SilverGirl wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:50 pm FYI the ppp loan program can be used to meet payroll and rent obligations. I think there is a lot of confusion, thousands have already applied and we just don’t know how soon this will come through. All of this is scary, I have to pay employees to not be at work because their kids school closed. Not sure how I am supposed to fund that (even if a tax credit later offsets it) and what if they give out all 350 billion before I get a turn? How do they know this is enough?

FWIW I mentioned a landlord doesn’t have an income without a tenant. Tenants like me don’t have a business without a building. I have no intention of trying to leave my landlord holding the bag. Hopefully we can all have some honest conversations and work this out for everyone’s benefit. I agree much of this legislation seems unfair to landlords. Seems ridiculous that back rent can roll indefinitely!
"Not sure how I am supposed to fund that (even if a tax credit later offsets it)"
Please check with your accountant but Quarterly taxes due on April 15th can offset some of these costs (hold them).

"I mentioned a landlord doesn’t have an income without a tenant."
We know of three landlords that have been approached with this exact same problems about 3 weeks ago - 2 of them have greatly reduces the leases for April 1st and May 1st , the third has agreed to a lesser rent check on April 1st and will discuss it again in about a month.

Are you a franchised center? Is your Franchisor helping you with these applications and during this time period?
User avatar
8foot7
Posts: 2309
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:29 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by 8foot7 »

Part of being a responsible successful residential landlord is knowing when to hold firm and when to show mercy.

In my view everyone ought to get some grace in April that needs it. This might be waived rent, it might be "don't worry about paying it now and we'll figure out when to pay it later," or it might be an automatic 1-month lease extension with payment then, or something. People have had their worlds turned upside down and I'm not convinced the relief money has started flowing yet. Show mercy.

By May 1, everyone who needs unemployment benefits should probably have begun receiving it by then. In some cases, those benefits under this stimulus can exceed their previous wages, so I'd be very much less inclined to give blanket grace and much more inclined to hear personal situations and review documentation (bank statements, unemployment applications etc) before modifying anything. Hold firm here and people won't take advantage of you.

And then you play it by ear. Once restrictions in your locality start easing, people need to start getting back on track. Having more good days than bad.
Topic Author
SimpleMan68
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:19 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by SimpleMan68 »

8foot7 wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:42 am Part of being a responsible successful residential landlord is knowing when to hold firm and when to show mercy.

In my view everyone ought to get some grace in April that needs it. This might be waived rent, it might be "don't worry about paying it now and we'll figure out when to pay it later," or it might be an automatic 1-month lease extension with payment then, or something. People have had their worlds turned upside down and I'm not convinced the relief money has started flowing yet. Show mercy.

By May 1, everyone who needs unemployment benefits should probably have begun receiving it by then. In some cases, those benefits under this stimulus can exceed their previous wages, so I'd be very much less inclined to give blanket grace and much more inclined to hear personal situations and review documentation (bank statements, unemployment applications etc) before modifying anything. Hold firm here and people won't take advantage of you.

And then you play it by ear. Once restrictions in your locality start easing, people need to start getting back on track. Having more good days than bad.
I think your analysis is spot on. About half of my tenants are retirees who collect social security and some of these also receive a pension. Tenants such as these help to make a landlord more "anti-fragile". Perhaps going forward, when evaluating a potential tenant, being on social security or a government pension moves a tenant to the top of the consideration list? All other things being equal, of course. Maybe in some way this is similar to holding treasuries in an otherwise all stock portfolio?
SimpleMan68 | We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.
michaeljc70
Posts: 7106
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Help for Landlords in the Stimulus Bills?

Post by michaeljc70 »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:46 am I have proactively forgiven my tenant's rent for three months.

Not his fault I chose to leverage up my investment property with a mortgage.
Not your fault he doesn't have an emergency fund. That is very nice of you though.
Post Reply