Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 11083
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Alex Frakt » Fri May 01, 2020 2:21 am

jjface wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:53 pm
Alex Frakt wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:32 pm
I got my loan today! It was originally submitted through PayPal on Monday. Approval letter came from PayPal at 4pm today (Thursday) and funds are already in my bank account.

PayPal works with WebBank out of Utah to process the loans. They have just under a billion in assets. I think I was one of the beneficiaries of the 8-hour ban on submitting applications that the SBA put on large banks Wednesday night.

I will note that I had a fairly straightforward application (I was only asking to cover W-2 employees and our health insurance costs) and I already had all the paperwork in PDF from my earlier denied application through my soon to be ex-bank.
Congrats to you but this is frustrating. Had mine in before yours, paypal processed it ready to send to sba before yours and I am still waiting for approval from the sba. So much for first come first serve paypal/sba.

Mine is so insignificant compared to most it is probably being handled by an intern.
Mine was in the mid-five figures. They say the average loan in the first tranche was $200,000 and so far in the second go around it's closer to $100,000.

User avatar
gasdoc
Posts: 1900
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:26 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by gasdoc » Fri May 01, 2020 7:59 am

I have an appointment to sign the loan documents this afternoon. It's at a small credit union.

gasdoc

User avatar
gasdoc
Posts: 1900
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:26 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by gasdoc » Fri May 01, 2020 2:52 pm

I just received my $20,800 PPP loan for a sole proprietor making over $100K per year. It was strange. I received no loan documents of any kind- just signed two papers and received the check- there was a line of cars behind me. Very strange. The loan person said, "you'll be getting information later about loan forgiveness. Very strange. It kind of made me nervous.

gasdoc

jjface
Posts: 2965
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by jjface » Fri May 01, 2020 3:20 pm

Still nothing for me. I'm beginning to believe more in unicorns.

User avatar
simplesimon
Posts: 3745
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:53 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by simplesimon » Fri May 01, 2020 3:32 pm

gasdoc wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 2:52 pm
I just received my $20,800 PPP loan for a sole proprietor making over $100K per year. It was strange. I received no loan documents of any kind- just signed two papers and received the check- there was a line of cars behind me. Very strange. The loan person said, "you'll be getting information later about loan forgiveness. Very strange. It kind of made me nervous.

gasdoc
I thought your mention of an appointment was strange too. What did you sign?

We used a local bank ($2B assets) and e-signed. Standard loan agreement and note.

crystalbank
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by crystalbank » Fri May 01, 2020 4:20 pm

Decided to ditch PayPal/Webbank and go with another local Small Business oriented bank. They made me open a bank account along with the PPP application and I submitted a bunch of paperwork today. Still waiting for them to confirm everything and submit to the application to the SBA.

I'm not really getting my hopes up though.

jjface
Posts: 2965
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by jjface » Fri May 01, 2020 4:59 pm

Paypal/webbank came through today. Approved and money in the bank today.

User avatar
gasdoc
Posts: 1900
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:26 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by gasdoc » Fri May 01, 2020 5:12 pm

simplesimon wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 3:32 pm
gasdoc wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 2:52 pm
I just received my $20,800 PPP loan for a sole proprietor making over $100K per year. It was strange. I received no loan documents of any kind- just signed two papers and received the check- there was a line of cars behind me. Very strange. The loan person said, "you'll be getting information later about loan forgiveness. Very strange. It kind of made me nervous.

gasdoc
I thought your mention of an appointment was strange too. What did you sign?

We used a local bank ($2B assets) and e-signed. Standard loan agreement and note.
The appointment was just the way the local credit union set the transaction so everyone would not come at one time (social distancing). I signed standard loan documents, but I didn't receive any copies of what I signed.

gasdoc

User avatar
gasdoc
Posts: 1900
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:26 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by gasdoc » Fri May 01, 2020 5:14 pm

Now I would like to go ahead and prepay the part of the loan I know will not be forgiven (I am a sole proprietor and have no overhead.). Does anyone know if this can be done? Apparently, there are no payments for six months, but interest accrues immediately on the non-forgiven part.

gasdoc

Topic Author
Theseus
Posts: 775
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:40 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Theseus » Fri May 01, 2020 5:18 pm

gasdoc wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 5:14 pm
Now I would like to go ahead and prepay the part of the loan I know will not be forgiven (I am a sole proprietor and have no overhead.). Does anyone know if this can be done? Apparently, there are no payments for six months, but interest accrues immediately on the non-forgiven part.

gasdoc
I would wait if I were you to prepay. I don’t think we have see Final guidance on forgiveness rules and I have a feeling there will be more clarification.

novice111
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:45 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by novice111 » Fri May 01, 2020 5:21 pm

i'm a single-person S -corp and i have a business relationship with Chase. What's the consensus on this thread? Should i apply with Chase or try paypal or a local credit union :confused

veindoc
Posts: 699
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:04 pm

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by veindoc » Fri May 01, 2020 6:10 pm

novice111 wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 5:21 pm
i'm a single-person S -corp and i have a business relationship with Chase. What's the consensus on this thread? Should i apply with Chase or try paypal or a local credit union :confused
I would try multiple lenders and withdraw the other applications once you get your SBA number. It doesn’t matter which bank gets you the money, just that you get the money. I applied though lendio.com and just got sent the loan docs to e-sign today. Believe it or not I applied during the first round- April 4 to be exact.
Just crazy. My business is living off of fumes at this point.

jjface
Posts: 2965
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:18 pm

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by jjface » Fri May 01, 2020 8:20 pm

novice111 wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 5:21 pm
i'm a single-person S -corp and i have a business relationship with Chase. What's the consensus on this thread? Should i apply with Chase or try paypal or a local credit union :confused
Paypal is generally fast and at this late stage you'll want to be fast in case the money runs out again. Chase have been slow. Credit union depends. May be better or may be worse. You could apply to 2 if they let you. Paypal don't mind if you apply elsewhere too.

User avatar
Harry Livermore
Posts: 364
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:32 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Harry Livermore » Sat May 02, 2020 6:23 am

I got an SBA number yesterday, and e-signed the BOA note this morning. Supposedly it will fund in 1-2 days.
Since I'm an LLC/ pass-through, I'm going to open a separate business account to draw loan proceeds from, as some have suggested.
Although my income and draws are typically lumpy, or at worst erratic, I'm going to draw a set amount every week for the 8 weeks.
Since a max of $100K is forgivable, I assume I would draw $1,923.08 per week; or $15,384.62 total. I will let the rest ride, as I don't have any other forgivable expenses, and can use other source for ongoing expenses. As more guidance comes in, I'm sure we will all learn specifics about certifying forgiveness amounts, repayment, and the interaction of the EIDL advance of $1K/ employee (I assume in my case that means, of the $15,384 in payroll, only $14,384 is forgivable) I have an email in to my CPA to confirm all this.
I will also cease logging in and certifying the $600/ week PUA (of which I had only received a single payment anyway)
I'm not sure if Theseus is still hanging around this thread, maybe one of the other super smart BHs can comment on all that.
Cheers

User avatar
JonnyDVM
Posts: 2136
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:51 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by JonnyDVM » Sat May 02, 2020 6:24 am

Harry Livermore wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 6:23 am
I got an SBA number yesterday, and e-signed the BOA note this morning. Supposedly it will fund in 1-2 days.
Since I'm an LLC/ pass-through, I'm going to open a separate business account to draw loan proceeds from, as some have suggested.
Although my income and draws are typically lumpy, or at worst erratic, I'm going to draw a set amount every week for the 8 weeks.
Since a max of $100K is forgivable, I assume I would draw $1,923.08 per week; or $15,384.62 total. I will let the rest ride, as I don't have any other forgivable expenses, and can use other source for ongoing expenses. As more guidance comes in, I'm sure we will all learn specifics about certifying forgiveness amounts, repayment, and the interaction of the EIDL advance of $1K/ employee (I assume in my case that means, of the $15,384 in payroll, only $14,384 is forgivable) I have an email in to my CPA to confirm all this.
I will also cease logging in and certifying the $600/ week PUA (of which I had only received a single payment anyway)
I'm not sure if Theseus is still hanging around this thread, maybe one of the other super smart BHs can comment on all that.
Cheers
Good for you! Through BOA no less?!!! It’s a unicorn!
I’d trade it all for a little more | -C Montgomery Burns

User avatar
Harry Livermore
Posts: 364
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:32 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Harry Livermore » Sat May 02, 2020 6:54 am

JonnyDVM wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 6:24 am

Good for you! Through BOA no less?!!! It’s a unicorn!
Agreed, you and I both had a terrible time with them. I'm pretty surprised, frankly, that it made its way through the sausage grinder.
I'm sure the road ahead remains bumpy, with "clarifications" still forthcoming regarding repayment, forgiveness, etc.
Cheers

moshe
Posts: 531
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:18 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by moshe » Sat May 02, 2020 7:33 am

Harry Livermore wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 6:23 am
I got an SBA number yesterday, and e-signed the BOA note this morning. Supposedly it will fund in 1-2 days.
Since I'm an LLC/ pass-through, I'm going to open a separate business account to draw loan proceeds from, as some have suggested.
Although my income and draws are typically lumpy, or at worst erratic, I'm going to draw a set amount every week for the 8 weeks.
Since a max of $100K is forgivable, I assume I would draw $1,923.08 per week; or $15,384.62 total. I will let the rest ride, as I don't have any other forgivable expenses, and can use other source for ongoing expenses. As more guidance comes in, I'm sure we will all learn specifics about certifying forgiveness amounts, repayment, and the interaction of the EIDL advance of $1K/ employee (I assume in my case that means, of the $15,384 in payroll, only $14,384 is forgivable) I have an email in to my CPA to confirm all this.
I will also cease logging in and certifying the $600/ week PUA (of which I had only received a single payment anyway)
I'm not sure if Theseus is still hanging around this thread, maybe one of the other super smart BHs can comment on all that.
Cheers
Congrats! I am also waiting on BoA even though my SMB assigned bank rep is telling me that my application has been submitted to the SBA for approval.

Tell me how did and from whom did you receive your SBA number? From BoA or directly from the SBA?

Thank you,
~Moshe
My money has no emotions. ~Moshe | | I'm the world's greatest expert on my own opinion. ~Bruce Williams

User avatar
gasdoc
Posts: 1900
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:26 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by gasdoc » Sat May 02, 2020 8:20 am

Theseus wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 5:18 pm
gasdoc wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 5:14 pm
Now I would like to go ahead and prepay the part of the loan I know will not be forgiven (I am a sole proprietor and have no overhead.). Does anyone know if this can be done? Apparently, there are no payments for six months, but interest accrues immediately on the non-forgiven part.

gasdoc
I would wait if I were you to prepay. I don’t think we have see Final guidance on forgiveness rules and I have a feeling there will be more clarification.
Wouldn't you think it would be safe to prepay the part that is not going to be forgiven? Are you thinking they might expand the forgivable part? I would think they would only make less forgivable.

PS. I had no idea you were still monitoring this thread. Thanks!

gasdoc

User avatar
gasdoc
Posts: 1900
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:26 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by gasdoc » Sat May 02, 2020 8:31 am

I wanted to put in a link to an article in Marketwatch I read today, entitled "Small-business owners could face jail time as DOJ launches investigation into coronavirus loan program:"

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/small ... 2020-05-01

A paragraph from the article says the following:

"But last week the government issued further guidance saying that applicants must exhaust other avenues of liquidity that would enable them to support ongoing operations. “This suggests a more robust analysis than what a lot of folks initially anticipated,” said Adams. “Businesses should do a fresh analysis to understand if they can support this certification before May 7,” a government-set deadline for paying back loans."

And it goes on to say the following:

"Companies that are found to have misled the government about the necessity of the loans could face penalties ranging from a loss of loan forgiveness to jail time. “When you’re making a certification in connection with receiving this loan, you face criminal liability” under statues that proscribe lying to government as well as mail fraud and wire fraud, Adams said."

If someone that is a sole proprietor is missing paychecks, but does have personal funds in savings, is this a problem with making the certification for the loan? It seems unreasonable to me.

gasdoc

rudeboy
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:21 pm

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by rudeboy » Sat May 02, 2020 9:10 am

gasdoc wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 8:31 am
I wanted to put in a link to an article in Marketwatch I read today, entitled "Small-business owners could face jail time as DOJ launches investigation into coronavirus loan program:"

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/small ... 2020-05-01

A paragraph from the article says the following:

"But last week the government issued further guidance saying that applicants must exhaust other avenues of liquidity that would enable them to support ongoing operations. “This suggests a more robust analysis than what a lot of folks initially anticipated,” said Adams. “Businesses should do a fresh analysis to understand if they can support this certification before May 7,” a government-set deadline for paying back loans."

And it goes on to say the following:

"Companies that are found to have misled the government about the necessity of the loans could face penalties ranging from a loss of loan forgiveness to jail time. “When you’re making a certification in connection with receiving this loan, you face criminal liability” under statues that proscribe lying to government as well as mail fraud and wire fraud, Adams said."

If someone that is a sole proprietor is missing paychecks, but does have personal funds in savings, is this a problem with making the certification for the loan? It seems unreasonable to me.

gasdoc
Here's a link to a new FAQ from the SBA: https://www.sba.gov/document/support--f ... -borrowers:

"Question: Will SBA review individual PPP loan files?

"...To further ensure PPP loans are limited to eligible
borrowers in need, the SBA has decided, in consultation with the Department of the
Treasury, that it will review all loans in excess of $2 million, in addition to other loans as
appropriate, following the lender’s submission of the borrower’s loan forgiveness
application."

I think they are talking about large businesses who may elsewhere have access to significant capital.
Last edited by rudeboy on Sat May 02, 2020 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

EnjoyIt
Posts: 4048
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by EnjoyIt » Sat May 02, 2020 9:10 am

gasdoc wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 8:31 am
I wanted to put in a link to an article in Marketwatch I read today, entitled "Small-business owners could face jail time as DOJ launches investigation into coronavirus loan program:"

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/small ... 2020-05-01

A paragraph from the article says the following:

"But last week the government issued further guidance saying that applicants must exhaust other avenues of liquidity that would enable them to support ongoing operations. “This suggests a more robust analysis than what a lot of folks initially anticipated,” said Adams. “Businesses should do a fresh analysis to understand if they can support this certification before May 7,” a government-set deadline for paying back loans."

And it goes on to say the following:

"Companies that are found to have misled the government about the necessity of the loans could face penalties ranging from a loss of loan forgiveness to jail time. “When you’re making a certification in connection with receiving this loan, you face criminal liability” under statues that proscribe lying to government as well as mail fraud and wire fraud, Adams said."

If someone that is a sole proprietor is missing paychecks, but does have personal funds in savings, is this a problem with making the certification for the loan? It seems unreasonable to me.

gasdoc
This language is a bit worrisome for a single sole proprietor who is still working but inflow of cash is down since volume is down.

I’m not even sure how down it is since reimbursement for medical care lags by a few months. I know I am hit, but have no idea by how much.

Topic Author
Theseus
Posts: 775
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:40 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Theseus » Sat May 02, 2020 11:01 am

gasdoc wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 8:20 am
Theseus wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 5:18 pm
gasdoc wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 5:14 pm
Now I would like to go ahead and prepay the part of the loan I know will not be forgiven (I am a sole proprietor and have no overhead.). Does anyone know if this can be done? Apparently, there are no payments for six months, but interest accrues immediately on the non-forgiven part.

gasdoc
I would wait if I were you to prepay. I don’t think we have see Final guidance on forgiveness rules and I have a feeling there will be more clarification.
Wouldn't you think it would be safe to prepay the part that is not going to be forgiven? Are you thinking they might expand the forgivable part? I would think they would only make less forgivable.

PS. I had no idea you were still monitoring this thread. Thanks!

gasdoc
I am not even sure if the banks are accepting applications for forgiveness yet. So you will be estimating the forgiveness amount based on the current guidance and paying it back. There are so many businesses that are in similar situation as yours - mainly they are having hard time getting people to come back to work. Who knows may be congress will extend the 8 week period for smaller businesses (at least we should lobby for that).

So If the guidance changes for better or worse - the forgiveness amount will change and will be applicable at the time you apply for forgiveness (not the time you prepaid). So the worst case is that you are on the hook for 1% interest loan on some amount that has no prepayment penalty. If I were in your shoes, I would not prepay yet.

Yes I have been monitoring the thread - but have not been able to reply. I am just overwhelmed with SCORE requests for help and feel emotionally exhausted by the plight of so many small businesses (especially those that got shortchanged by big banks). But I will continue to reply where there seem to be unique questions.

Topic Author
Theseus
Posts: 775
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:40 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Theseus » Sat May 02, 2020 11:04 am

Harry Livermore wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 6:23 am
I got an SBA number yesterday, and e-signed the BOA note this morning. Supposedly it will fund in 1-2 days.
Since I'm an LLC/ pass-through, I'm going to open a separate business account to draw loan proceeds from, as some have suggested.
Although my income and draws are typically lumpy, or at worst erratic, I'm going to draw a set amount every week for the 8 weeks.
Since a max of $100K is forgivable, I assume I would draw $1,923.08 per week; or $15,384.62 total. I will let the rest ride, as I don't have any other forgivable expenses, and can use other source for ongoing expenses. As more guidance comes in, I'm sure we will all learn specifics about certifying forgiveness amounts, repayment, and the interaction of the EIDL advance of $1K/ employee (I assume in my case that means, of the $15,384 in payroll, only $14,384 is forgivable) I have an email in to my CPA to confirm all this.
I will also cease logging in and certifying the $600/ week PUA (of which I had only received a single payment anyway)
I'm not sure if Theseus is still hanging around this thread, maybe one of the other super smart BHs can comment on all that.
Cheers
This seems a reasonable approach and I would recommend this .

I am not sure exactly how the unemployment works. But if there is a way to put it on hold for 8 weeks (so that you don't have to reapply) then that would be the best possible option - just in case you need to restart the PUA after 8 weeks.

Topic Author
Theseus
Posts: 775
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:40 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Theseus » Sat May 02, 2020 11:12 am

veindoc wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 6:10 pm
novice111 wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 5:21 pm
i'm a single-person S -corp and i have a business relationship with Chase. What's the consensus on this thread? Should i apply with Chase or try paypal or a local credit union :confused
I would try multiple lenders and withdraw the other applications once you get your SBA number. It doesn’t matter which bank gets you the money, just that you get the money. I applied though lendio.com and just got sent the loan docs to e-sign today. Believe it or not I applied during the first round- April 4 to be exact.
Just crazy. My business is living off of fumes at this point.
I agree with this. I had to do this with couple of my SCORE clients that were - for lack of better words - jerked around by big banks. I advised them to apply to more than one and then accept only first one that gets approved.

@veindoc I feel your pain. I have clients that applied much earlier that were not approved and some that applied much later that were approved. So the process is opaque. We don't know what is causing that. Is the bank delaying the submission to SBA or does SBA has internal prioritization process. I saw the same for EIDL. I am sure there will be a 60 Minutes segment on this in a year when we have a large enough graveyard of small businesses.

User avatar
Matigas
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:34 pm

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Matigas » Sat May 02, 2020 11:16 am

An individual is most definitely not supposed to accept both PPP funds and PUA.

Topic Author
Theseus
Posts: 775
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:40 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Theseus » Sat May 02, 2020 11:28 am

gasdoc wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 8:31 am
I wanted to put in a link to an article in Marketwatch I read today, entitled "Small-business owners could face jail time as DOJ launches investigation into coronavirus loan program:"

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/small ... 2020-05-01

A paragraph from the article says the following:

"But last week the government issued further guidance saying that applicants must exhaust other avenues of liquidity that would enable them to support ongoing operations. “This suggests a more robust analysis than what a lot of folks initially anticipated,” said Adams. “Businesses should do a fresh analysis to understand if they can support this certification before May 7,” a government-set deadline for paying back loans."

And it goes on to say the following:

"Companies that are found to have misled the government about the necessity of the loans could face penalties ranging from a loss of loan forgiveness to jail time. “When you’re making a certification in connection with receiving this loan, you face criminal liability” under statues that proscribe lying to government as well as mail fraud and wire fraud, Adams said."

If someone that is a sole proprietor is missing paychecks, but does have personal funds in savings, is this a problem with making the certification for the loan? It seems unreasonable to me.

gasdoc
My feeling (and this is just a feeling) on this is that this will be directed to larger small businesses and those that have committed outright fraud. There are many we have heard about who received money - in excess of a $1 billion now that are large. I have known of businesses that have not seen much drop in revenue and still applied and got EIDL and PPP. I would think - such companies will have tough time explaining the revenue/profits from ongoing business when they ask for forgiveness.

However we have to acknowledge the fact that this hit all of us very hard and very very quickly. In the time of uncertainty and continued change in the guidance from SBA and Treasury most businesses owners did what they thought was the best - which was to apply for EIDL and PPP. So I am hoping that the government will provide an opportunity to pay it back without any penalty etc.

User avatar
gasdoc
Posts: 1900
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:26 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by gasdoc » Sat May 02, 2020 11:31 am

I applied for but never did receive the EIDL. Is this program still active?

gasdoc

User avatar
BogleFanGal
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by BogleFanGal » Sat May 02, 2020 11:32 am

Matigas wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:16 am
An individual is most definitely not supposed to accept both PPP funds and PUA.
This still confuses me. What if you lost all revenue for 2 weeks back in late March. Then got PPP funds in May? So for the 8 weeks starting in May, obviously PUA doesn't apply. But can you legally get PUA for those 2 weeks back in march? Or do you permanently forgo all PUA if you get ANY PPP?
"Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen." Mark Twain

User avatar
Fat-Tailed Contagion
Posts: 983
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:49 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Fat-Tailed Contagion » Sat May 02, 2020 11:35 am

Matigas wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:16 am
An individual is most definitely not supposed to accept both PPP funds and PUA.
Can an Independent Contractor get an EIDL grant & PUA benefits?
“The intelligent investor is a realist who sells to optimists and buys from pessimists.” | ― Benjamin Graham, The Intelligent Investor

User avatar
Average Investor
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:27 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Average Investor » Sat May 02, 2020 1:04 pm

I received an email last night stating my PPP note with BofA was ready.

My single employee S-Corp company health plan expenses and retirement contributions were both disallowed from the calculation which nearly cut my loan in half. I was not too surprised by the health plan cut as it is not technically a group plan (although the ADP payroll report for PPP submissions listed it as an eligible expense). The BofA application did not ask for any documentation for company retirement benefits so it was a little annoying it was cut.

No BofA loan processing contact information was provided, basically it was either sign or go away. I signed.
Tomorrow never knows.

User avatar
gasdoc
Posts: 1900
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:26 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by gasdoc » Sat May 02, 2020 1:35 pm

Fat-Tailed Contagion wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:35 am
Matigas wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:16 am
An individual is most definitely not supposed to accept both PPP funds and PUA.
Can an Independent Contractor get an EIDL grant & PUA benefits?
The consensus here in the threads is that as long as you don't double dip for any period in time, it is OK to have any two or more programs. For example, I was furloughed for three plus weeks in April and am working only part time in May due to Covid-19 patients. I am applying for the PUA unemployment benefits for a couple of the weeks I was furloughed, and I am using the PPP and EIDL to supplementary income in May.

gasdoc

theplayer11
Posts: 1189
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:55 pm

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by theplayer11 » Sat May 02, 2020 5:17 pm

Average Investor wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:04 pm
I received an email last night stating my PPP note with BofA was ready.

My single employee S-Corp company health plan expenses and retirement contributions were both disallowed from the calculation which nearly cut my loan in half. I was not too surprised by the health plan cut as it is not technically a group plan (although the ADP payroll report for PPP submissions listed it as an eligible expense). The BofA application did not ask for any documentation for company retirement benefits so it was a little annoying it was cut.

No BofA loan processing contact information was provided, basically it was either sign or go away. I signed.
So are you saying you used retirement contributions in your calculation for the loan amount but didn't send in supporting info?
If ask for or not, I would have sent supporting documentation for everything .

User avatar
Average Investor
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:27 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Average Investor » Sat May 02, 2020 6:09 pm

theplayer11 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 5:17 pm
Average Investor wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:04 pm
I received an email last night stating my PPP note with BofA was ready.

My single employee S-Corp company health plan expenses and retirement contributions were both disallowed from the calculation which nearly cut my loan in half. I was not too surprised by the health plan cut as it is not technically a group plan (although the ADP payroll report for PPP submissions listed it as an eligible expense). The BofA application did not ask for any documentation for company retirement benefits so it was a little annoying it was cut.

No BofA loan processing contact information was provided, basically it was either sign or go away. I signed.
So are you saying you used retirement contributions in your calculation for the loan amount but didn't send in supporting info?
If ask for or not, I would have sent supporting documentation for everything .
Unfortunately yes, most likely in my haste to submit. Perhaps I could have corrected this issue but decided just to accept what was already approved in case the money runs out. The funds show pending in my account today.
Tomorrow never knows.

User avatar
Harry Livermore
Posts: 364
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:32 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Harry Livermore » Sat May 02, 2020 6:15 pm

moshe wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 7:33 am
Harry Livermore wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 6:23 am
I got an SBA number yesterday, and e-signed the BOA note this morning. Supposedly it will fund in 1-2 days.
Since I'm an LLC/ pass-through, I'm going to open a separate business account to draw loan proceeds from, as some have suggested.
Although my income and draws are typically lumpy, or at worst erratic, I'm going to draw a set amount every week for the 8 weeks.
Since a max of $100K is forgivable, I assume I would draw $1,923.08 per week; or $15,384.62 total. I will let the rest ride, as I don't have any other forgivable expenses, and can use other source for ongoing expenses. As more guidance comes in, I'm sure we will all learn specifics about certifying forgiveness amounts, repayment, and the interaction of the EIDL advance of $1K/ employee (I assume in my case that means, of the $15,384 in payroll, only $14,384 is forgivable) I have an email in to my CPA to confirm all this.
I will also cease logging in and certifying the $600/ week PUA (of which I had only received a single payment anyway)
I'm not sure if Theseus is still hanging around this thread, maybe one of the other super smart BHs can comment on all that.
Cheers
Congrats! I am also waiting on BoA even though my SMB assigned bank rep is telling me that my application has been submitted to the SBA for approval.

Tell me how did and from whom did you receive your SBA number? From BoA or directly from the SBA?

Thank you,
~Moshe
You know, I never actually got a number...
I got an email yesterday from BOA that said: "We'd like to share this update with you on the status of your application and let you know you've been assigned a loan identification number by the Small Business Administration. This represents one of the last steps in the loan disbursement process. We'll be reaching out to you over the next few days to complete the process"
Then, this morning, I was directed to log in to BOA and complete the attestation and promissory note. When I finished, a there was a message that said "Success! If all of your information is correct and accurate, we expect the funds to be posted to your account in 1-2 business days after you complete the final documentation"
Hmmmm. Maybe I'm not done yet.
Cheers

User avatar
Harry Livermore
Posts: 364
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:32 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Harry Livermore » Sat May 02, 2020 6:28 pm

Theseus wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:04 am

I am not sure exactly how the unemployment works. But if there is a way to put it on hold for 8 weeks (so that you don't have to reapply) then that would be the best possible option - just in case you need to restart the PUA after 8 weeks.
Yes, after the initial application, the process is to log in each week and certify that you did not work during the prior week. Obviously I will cease doing that. The other good news is that I am starting a very small project next week, and will be paid on a W2 for my labor, with additional revenue from equipment rental, so that will help for the next 5 weeks. The business revenue will be about 20% of normal weekly revenue.
My take on the new guidance is that, yes, I have other sources of liquidity but they will be quickly exhausted, making the PPP "necessary". If the SBA denies forgiveness, then fine, it's a 1% loan with no payment due for a while.
Thanks for popping back in, Theseus!
Cheers

novice111
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:45 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by novice111 » Sat May 02, 2020 9:42 pm

gasdoc wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:31 am
I applied for but never did receive the EIDL. Is this program still active?

gasdoc
do you mean the advance or the loan.
As a data point i applied for eidl advance apr 6th 2020 and received $1k on may 1

novice111
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:45 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by novice111 » Sat May 02, 2020 9:44 pm

Theseus wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:12 am
veindoc wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 6:10 pm
novice111 wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 5:21 pm
i'm a single-person S -corp and i have a business relationship with Chase. What's the consensus on this thread? Should i apply with Chase or try paypal or a local credit union :confused
I would try multiple lenders and withdraw the other applications once you get your SBA number. It doesn’t matter which bank gets you the money, just that you get the money. I applied though lendio.com and just got sent the loan docs to e-sign today. Believe it or not I applied during the first round- April 4 to be exact.
Just crazy. My business is living off of fumes at this point.
I agree with this. I had to do this with couple of my SCORE clients that were - for lack of better words - jerked around by big banks. I advised them to apply to more than one and then accept only first one that gets approved.

@veindoc I feel your pain. I have clients that applied much earlier that were not approved and some that applied much later that were approved. So the process is opaque. We don't know what is causing that. Is the bank delaying the submission to SBA or does SBA has internal prioritization process. I saw the same for EIDL. I am sure there will be a 60 Minutes segment on this in a year when we have a large enough graveyard of small businesses.
Thank you, all. i'll look into applying at least with paypal. BTW Chase says they're 'not accepting new applications at the moment' so that's out

User avatar
Fat-Tailed Contagion
Posts: 983
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:49 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Fat-Tailed Contagion » Sat May 02, 2020 11:33 pm

gasdoc wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:35 pm
Fat-Tailed Contagion wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:35 am
Matigas wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:16 am
An individual is most definitely not supposed to accept both PPP funds and PUA.
Can an Independent Contractor get an EIDL grant & PUA benefits?
The consensus here in the threads is that as long as you don't double dip for any period in time, it is OK to have any two or more programs. For example, I was furloughed for three plus weeks in April and am working only part time in May due to Covid-19 patients. I am applying for the PUA unemployment benefits for a couple of the weeks I was furloughed, and I am using the PPP and EIDL to supplementary income in May.

gasdoc
So, if you got both would you be forced to pay back the EIDL grant?
“The intelligent investor is a realist who sells to optimists and buys from pessimists.” | ― Benjamin Graham, The Intelligent Investor

Topic Author
Theseus
Posts: 775
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:40 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Theseus » Sun May 03, 2020 7:22 am

Fat-Tailed Contagion wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:33 pm
gasdoc wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:35 pm
Fat-Tailed Contagion wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:35 am
Matigas wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:16 am
An individual is most definitely not supposed to accept both PPP funds and PUA.
Can an Independent Contractor get an EIDL grant & PUA benefits?
The consensus here in the threads is that as long as you don't double dip for any period in time, it is OK to have any two or more programs. For example, I was furloughed for three plus weeks in April and am working only part time in May due to Covid-19 patients. I am applying for the PUA unemployment benefits for a couple of the weeks I was furloughed, and I am using the PPP and EIDL to supplementary income in May.

gasdoc
So, if you got both would you be forced to pay back the EIDL grant?
No - you can have both loans. But don't use EIDL for the same purpose as PPP. E.g. if you get EIDL, then wait till you exhaust the PPP before using it for payroll and rent expenses. E.g. you can use EIDL for payroll from May 1 - June 30. And EIDL for payroll from July 1 onwards. And have a clear segregation on which money is used for what. And good record keeping.

moshe
Posts: 531
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:18 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by moshe » Sun May 03, 2020 7:29 am

Harry Livermore wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 6:15 pm
moshe wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 7:33 am
Harry Livermore wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 6:23 am
I got an SBA number yesterday, and e-signed the BOA note this morning. Supposedly it will fund in 1-2 days.
Since I'm an LLC/ pass-through, I'm going to open a separate business account to draw loan proceeds from, as some have suggested.
Although my income and draws are typically lumpy, or at worst erratic, I'm going to draw a set amount every week for the 8 weeks.
Since a max of $100K is forgivable, I assume I would draw $1,923.08 per week; or $15,384.62 total. I will let the rest ride, as I don't have any other forgivable expenses, and can use other source for ongoing expenses. As more guidance comes in, I'm sure we will all learn specifics about certifying forgiveness amounts, repayment, and the interaction of the EIDL advance of $1K/ employee (I assume in my case that means, of the $15,384 in payroll, only $14,384 is forgivable) I have an email in to my CPA to confirm all this.
I will also cease logging in and certifying the $600/ week PUA (of which I had only received a single payment anyway)
I'm not sure if Theseus is still hanging around this thread, maybe one of the other super smart BHs can comment on all that.
Cheers
Congrats! I am also waiting on BoA even though my SMB assigned bank rep is telling me that my application has been submitted to the SBA for approval.

Tell me how did and from whom did you receive your SBA number? From BoA or directly from the SBA?

Thank you,
~Moshe
You know, I never actually got a number...
I got an email yesterday from BOA that said: "We'd like to share this update with you on the status of your application and let you know you've been assigned a loan identification number by the Small Business Administration. This represents one of the last steps in the loan disbursement process. We'll be reaching out to you over the next few days to complete the process"
Then, this morning, I was directed to log in to BOA and complete the attestation and promissory note. When I finished, a there was a message that said "Success! If all of your information is correct and accurate, we expect the funds to be posted to your account in 1-2 business days after you complete the final documentation"
Hmmmm. Maybe I'm not done yet.
Cheers
Thanks Harry. I received a call from one of their loan officers two weeks ago. They had me sign the attestation and promissory note which occurred between round 1 and 2 of funding.... and since then crickets. I contacted my loan officer by email mid-week and after prompting he said it was submitted to the SBA and was in process.

Hopeful but skeptical. I am fortunate in that business is only down about 80% +/- and my DW works full time in mental health billing (no chance she will be lacking for work anytime soon) but it sure would help in the short term. Otherwise we most likely will shutdown and file for unemployment which of course might happen anyway but the PPP loan will help extend operations at least 90 days.

Depending on the outcome we will be re-evaluating my 40+ year personal and our 15+ business relationship with the bank when this is all over.

All the best,
~Moshe
My money has no emotions. ~Moshe | | I'm the world's greatest expert on my own opinion. ~Bruce Williams

User avatar
Harry Livermore
Posts: 364
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:32 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Harry Livermore » Sun May 03, 2020 7:56 am

moshe wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 7:29 am

They had me sign the attestation and promissory note which occurred between round 1 and 2 of funding.... and since then crickets. I contacted my loan officer by email mid-week and after prompting he said it was submitted to the SBA and was in process.
Hi, just an update- BOA sent an email overnight that says "Thank you for completing and signing the attestation form and promissory note. Your loan has been approved and funds will be deposited within 1-2 business days into the account you noted on your application"
So, no SBA number, but perhaps success?
Cheers

User avatar
gasdoc
Posts: 1900
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:26 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by gasdoc » Sun May 03, 2020 8:11 am

novice111 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:42 pm
gasdoc wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:31 am
I applied for but never did receive the EIDL. Is this program still active?

gasdoc
do you mean the advance or the loan.
As a data point i applied for eidl advance apr 6th 2020 and received $1k on may 1
I meant the advance. I don't remember the actual application date, but it feels like it has been a month. Oh well...

gasdoc

moshe
Posts: 531
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:18 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by moshe » Sun May 03, 2020 8:23 am

Harry Livermore wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 7:56 am
moshe wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 7:29 am

They had me sign the attestation and promissory note which occurred between round 1 and 2 of funding.... and since then crickets. I contacted my loan officer by email mid-week and after prompting he said it was submitted to the SBA and was in process.
Hi, just an update- BOA sent an email overnight that says "Thank you for completing and signing the attestation form and promissory note. Your loan has been approved and funds will be deposited within 1-2 business days into the account you noted on your application"
So, no SBA number, but perhaps success?
Cheers
Excellent! No such email for me yet... Very strange and frustrating process for sure.
My money has no emotions. ~Moshe | | I'm the world's greatest expert on my own opinion. ~Bruce Williams

WhyNotUs
Posts: 1726
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:38 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by WhyNotUs » Sun May 03, 2020 8:30 am

gasdoc wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:31 am
I applied for but never did receive the EIDL. Is this program still active?

gasdoc
Yes, I have a client who applied the second day and heard nothing. They assumed that it was dead. Last week an amount equal to $1k per FTE was deposited into their account. It will be a loan as they received PPP loan as well.
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX

User avatar
Average Investor
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:27 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Average Investor » Sun May 03, 2020 9:48 am

Harry Livermore wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 7:56 am
moshe wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 7:29 am

They had me sign the attestation and promissory note which occurred between round 1 and 2 of funding.... and since then crickets. I contacted my loan officer by email mid-week and after prompting he said it was submitted to the SBA and was in process.
Hi, just an update- BOA sent an email overnight that says "Thank you for completing and signing the attestation form and promissory note. Your loan has been approved and funds will be deposited within 1-2 business days into the account you noted on your application"
So, no SBA number, but perhaps success?
Cheers
I received this same email yesterday. Funds have already appeared in my account.
Tomorrow never knows.

veindoc
Posts: 699
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:04 pm

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by veindoc » Sun May 03, 2020 10:33 am

I received the EIDL advance April 24 and had a payroll soon after. I haven’t received the PPL but did sign a promissory note. I wonder if I can say I used the EIDL money towards that. And use the PPL money if and when it comes toward future payroll etc.

User avatar
Fat-Tailed Contagion
Posts: 983
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:49 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Fat-Tailed Contagion » Sun May 03, 2020 11:03 am

Theseus wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 7:22 am
Fat-Tailed Contagion wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:33 pm
gasdoc wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:35 pm
Fat-Tailed Contagion wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:35 am
Matigas wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:16 am
An individual is most definitely not supposed to accept both PPP funds and PUA.
Can an Independent Contractor get an EIDL grant & PUA benefits?
The consensus here in the threads is that as long as you don't double dip for any period in time, it is OK to have any two or more programs. For example, I was furloughed for three plus weeks in April and am working only part time in May due to Covid-19 patients. I am applying for the PUA unemployment benefits for a couple of the weeks I was furloughed, and I am using the PPP and EIDL to supplementary income in May.

gasdoc
So, if you got both would you be forced to pay back the EIDL grant?
No - you can have both loans. But don't use EIDL for the same purpose as PPP. E.g. if you get EIDL, then wait till you exhaust the PPP before using it for payroll and rent expenses. E.g. you can use EIDL for payroll from May 1 - June 30. And EIDL for payroll from July 1 onwards. And have a clear segregation on which money is used for what. And good record keeping.
I was referring to getting the EIDL grant and PUA benefits (Not the PPP loan).
“The intelligent investor is a realist who sells to optimists and buys from pessimists.” | ― Benjamin Graham, The Intelligent Investor

User avatar
Harry Livermore
Posts: 364
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:32 am

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by Harry Livermore » Sun May 03, 2020 4:41 pm

PPP funded today. So that's the end of PUA for me.
EIDL advance was spent servicing existing debt last week. I also got an email saying the EIDL loan was approved but I am not sure I need those funds now.
I'll see about opening a segregated account for the PPP funds tomorrow.
Cheers

veindoc
Posts: 699
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:04 pm

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by veindoc » Sun May 03, 2020 7:05 pm

Harry Livermore wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 4:41 pm
PPP funded today. So that's the end of PUA for me.
EIDL advance was spent servicing existing debt last week. I also got an email saying the EIDL loan was approved but I am not sure I need those funds now.
I'll see about opening a segregated account for the PPP funds tomorrow.
Cheers
Did you get a chance to ask for a EIDL loan amount? I got an SBA email stating EIDL loan was going first come first serve. I applied for the loan advance which was funded but never had the opportunity to actually apply for the loan or rather was not given an opportunity. What is the formula they use to determine a loan amount? Is there a separate email that directs you to a an actual loan application?

jolmscheid
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:22 pm

Re: Stimulus help for small businesses, sole proprietors, s-corp etc

Post by jolmscheid » Sun May 03, 2020 9:14 pm

Harry Livermore wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 4:41 pm
PPP funded today. So that's the end of PUA for me.
EIDL advance was spent servicing existing debt last week. I also got an email saying the EIDL loan was approved but I am not sure I need those funds now.
I'll see about opening a segregated account for the PPP funds tomorrow.
Cheers
Where does it say that self-employed cannot have the PPP and the unemployment assistance (PUA)? I have been trying to find out if one can still get unemployment and the PPP?

Post Reply