Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

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summerof42
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Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by summerof42 »

I'm 64.9 yrs young, still working and not collecting Social Security. I printed my annual SS Statement in addition to using their calculator to get an idea what my SS would look like in delaying SS after FRA. I'm a bit confused.

I do have zero dollars factored into the average of the best 35 years since I remained at home for 12 years raising my children. Effective 2020 income one of those zero years can be eliminated when determining the average; however, the on line calculator doesn't seem to reflect as such and it only goes up by around $15, yet I am eliminating a zero income for $61k which is quite a bit of a difference.

Does this seem right?
Dottie57
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by Dottie57 »

2019 income from IRS isn’t factored into theSS statement. Which calculator are you using? Best to be specific and add a URL to your post.
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summerof42
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by summerof42 »

Dottie57 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:34 pm 2019 income from IRS isn’t factored into theSS statement. Which calculator are you using? Best to be specific and add a URL to your post.
Hello Dottie57:

Yes, my current SS statement does show 2019 factored in. The calculator I used is the one available on the SS gov website.
https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/AnypiaApplet.html
Financologist
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by Financologist »

Sounds like you're past the final bend point ($0.15 on the dollar impact to PIA).

How the Social Security Benefits Calculation Works

https://www.thebalance.com/social-secur ... de-2388927
Financologist
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summerof42
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by summerof42 »

Financologist wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:40 pm Sounds like you're past the final bend point ($0.15 on the dollar impact to PIA).

How the Social Security Benefits Calculation Works

https://www.thebalance.com/social-secur ... de-2388927
I also used this one on the SS gov website and it still doesn't seem to calculate correctly.
https://secure.ssa.gov/acu/ACU_KBA/main ... 3Den&LVL=4
Dottie57
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by Dottie57 »

summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:38 pm
Dottie57 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:34 pm 2019 income from IRS isn’t factored into theSS statement. Which calculator are you using? Best to be specific and add a URL to your post.
Hello Dottie57:

Yes, my current SS statement does show 2019 factored in. The calculator I used is the one available on the SS gov website.
https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/AnypiaApplet.html
So your SS statement actually shows the 2019 amount on the W2 statement you received from your employer?
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summerof42
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by summerof42 »

Dottie57 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:07 pm
summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:38 pm
Dottie57 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:34 pm 2019 income from IRS isn’t factored into theSS statement. Which calculator are you using? Best to be specific and add a URL to your post.
Hello Dottie57:

Yes, my current SS statement does show 2019 factored in. The calculator I used is the one available on the SS gov website.
https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/AnypiaApplet.html
So your SS statement actually shows the 2019 amount on the W2 statement you received from your employer?
Again. . . yes. Curious, what is this so hard to believe?
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FiveK
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by FiveK »

summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:38 pm Yes, my current SS statement does show 2019 factored in. The calculator I used is the one available on the SS gov website.
https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/AnypiaApplet.html
There are also a couple of spreadsheets and a web tool that work well for calculating an individual's benefit. You might try one or more of them to see if you get the same answer:
- The 'SocialSecurity' tab of the personal finance toolbox spreadsheet.
- The Downloadable Social Security Benefit Estimator (repost) - Bogleheads.org.
- Social Security Calculator
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by Dottie57 »

summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:11 pm
Dottie57 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:07 pm
summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:38 pm
Dottie57 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:34 pm 2019 income from IRS isn’t factored into theSS statement. Which calculator are you using? Best to be specific and add a URL to your post.
Hello Dottie57:

Yes, my current SS statement does show 2019 factored in. The calculator I used is the one available on the SS gov website.
https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/AnypiaApplet.html
So your SS statement actually shows the 2019 amount on the W2 statement you received from your employer?
Again. . . yes. Curious, what is this so hard to believe?
Because the W2 information is not required until March 31st. I am surprised that programs updating statement data would be done already.
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summerof42
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by summerof42 »

FiveK wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:12 pm
summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:38 pm Yes, my current SS statement does show 2019 factored in. The calculator I used is the one available on the SS gov website.
https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/AnypiaApplet.html
There are also a couple of spreadsheets and a web tool that work well for calculating an individual's benefit. You might try one or more of them to see if you get the same answer:
- The 'SocialSecurity' tab of the personal finance toolbox spreadsheet.
- The Downloadable Social Security Benefit Estimator (repost) - Bogleheads.org.
- Social Security Calculator
Thank you kindly FiveK for the links. No. 1 I tried earlier today; hence my post. No. 2 comes out much different that SS gov site (No 2), and No. 3 makes me a bit nervous to input such personal info given the stability of the site.

@Dottie - it looks the government is on their toes in entering info.
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FiveK
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by FiveK »

summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:23 pm
FiveK wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:12 pm
summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:38 pm Yes, my current SS statement does show 2019 factored in. The calculator I used is the one available on the SS gov website.
https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/AnypiaApplet.html
There are also a couple of spreadsheets and a web tool that work well for calculating an individual's benefit. You might try one or more of them to see if you get the same answer:
- The 'SocialSecurity' tab of the personal finance toolbox spreadsheet.
- The Downloadable Social Security Benefit Estimator (repost) - Bogleheads.org.
- Social Security Calculator
Thank you kindly FiveK for the links. No. 1 I tried earlier today; hence my post. No. 2 comes out much different that SS gov site (No 2), and No. 3 makes me a bit nervous to input such personal info given the stability of the site.
Not exactly sure of the numbering scheme in use...?

The toolbox spreadsheet has matched the downloadable version of anypia exactly when I've checked it for our situation.
CFM300
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by CFM300 »

summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:15 pm it only goes up by around $15, yet I am eliminating a zero income for $61k which is quite a bit of a difference.

Does this seem right?
What is your AIME?
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neurosphere
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by neurosphere »

FiveK wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:33 pm
summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:23 pm
FiveK wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:12 pm
summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:38 pm Yes, my current SS statement does show 2019 factored in. The calculator I used is the one available on the SS gov website.
https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/AnypiaApplet.html
There are also a couple of spreadsheets and a web tool that work well for calculating an individual's benefit. You might try one or more of them to see if you get the same answer:
- The 'SocialSecurity' tab of the personal finance toolbox spreadsheet.
- The Downloadable Social Security Benefit Estimator (repost) - Bogleheads.org.
- Social Security Calculator
Thank you kindly FiveK for the links. No. 1 I tried earlier today; hence my post. No. 2 comes out much different that SS gov site (No 2), and No. 3 makes me a bit nervous to input such personal info given the stability of the site.
Not exactly sure of the numbering scheme in use...?

The toolbox spreadsheet has matched the downloadable version of anypia exactly when I've checked it for our situation.
The newest version of the"downloadable" calculator, available here (https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atj-cegEXidX0QgQBE8f23JkQsfx) is secure in that it's simply an excel spreadsheet. Go to File-->save as in order to download a copy. No data goes anywhere. It won't give you you "exact" benefit, because it's mostly designed as a tool to estimate a distant future benefit and does not take into account anything other than integer years with respect to claiming a benefit (i.e. always assumes you begin claiming a benefit in your birth month). Note that it matches all official SS calculators exactly within the assumptions the calculator uses (e.g. integers for FRA and claiming age).

However, it would work to get an idea of the amount of "extra" benefit you would get if you add an additional year of earnings. SImply plug in your earnings history. Then, add an additional year/amount and you can see how much your benefit might change. Again, it's not going to give to a "to the dollar" answer if your full retirement age is not an integer or you don't claim a benefit on your birth month. However you'll be able to get a semi-quantifiable idea of the magnitude of the effect for adding additional earnings to your particular earnings history.
Last edited by neurosphere on Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you have to ask "Is a Target Date fund right for me?", the answer is "Yes" (even in taxable accounts).
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neurosphere
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by neurosphere »

summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:15 pmEffective 2020 income one of those zero years can be eliminated when determining the average; however, the on line calculator doesn't seem to reflect as such and it only goes up by around $15, yet I am eliminating a zero income for $61k which is quite a bit of a difference.

Does this seem right?
I entered some dummy data for a 65 years old, and assumed 30 years of "high" earnings. Then, I added a $61,000 in earnings for 2020. The benefit, if claiming at at age 65, increased by $21 per month.

That's more than your example, but perhaps it's enough in the ballpark to convince you that any expected increase would not be as much as you may have assumed?
If you have to ask "Is a Target Date fund right for me?", the answer is "Yes" (even in taxable accounts).
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JoeRetire
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by JoeRetire »

Dottie57 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:07 pm So your SS statement actually shows the 2019 amount on the W2 statement you received from your employer?
Mine does. My wife's does. This shouldn't be surprising.
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neurosphere
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by neurosphere »

summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:23 pm
FiveK wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:12 pm
summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:38 pm Yes, my current SS statement does show 2019 factored in. The calculator I used is the one available on the SS gov website.
https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/AnypiaApplet.html
There are also a couple of spreadsheets and a web tool that work well for calculating an individual's benefit. You might try one or more of them to see if you get the same answer:
- The 'SocialSecurity' tab of the personal finance toolbox spreadsheet.
- The Downloadable Social Security Benefit Estimator (repost) - Bogleheads.org.
- Social Security Calculator
Thank you kindly FiveK for the links. No. 1 I tried earlier today; hence my post. No. 2 comes out much different that SS gov site (No 2), and No. 3 makes me a bit nervous to input such personal info given the stability of the site.
If "#3" refers to socialsecurity.tools, I can assure you the site is "stable" and secure. No data leaves your computer. Once loading the java code, you can run the numbers offline if you prefer to see that no one gets or sees your actual earnings history. I was personally involved with the development of that page, and can "vouch" for the person who developed the code. :D
If you have to ask "Is a Target Date fund right for me?", the answer is "Yes" (even in taxable accounts).
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JoeRetire
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by JoeRetire »

Dottie57 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:14 pmBecause the W2 information is not required until March 31st. I am surprised that programs updating statement data would be done already.
According to the Internal Revenue Service, W-2 forms should be mailed out to employees by no later than January 31.

It's not clear where you got the March 31 date from?
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neurosphere
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by neurosphere »

neurosphere wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:59 pm
summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:15 pmEffective 2020 income one of those zero years can be eliminated when determining the average; however, the on line calculator doesn't seem to reflect as such and it only goes up by around $15, yet I am eliminating a zero income for $61k which is quite a bit of a difference.

Does this seem right?
I entered some dummy data for a 65 years old, and assumed 30 years of "high" earnings. Then, I added a $61,000 in earnings for 2020. The benefit, if claiming at at age 65, increased by $21 per month.

That's more than your example, but perhaps it's enough in the ballpark to convince you that any expected increase would not be as much as you may have assumed?
A little birdy by the name of sscritic chirped in my ear just now, and gave some additional insights.

If you are 64.9 years old, you turn 65 in 2020, and thus your full retirement age is 66 and 2 months. Let's assume you are past the second bend point (as a result of prior earnings). If you have additional earnings after age 60, there is no indexing, and thus $61,000 = $61,000 in indexed earnings, which increases your AIME by $61,000/35/12 = $145.24. And after the second bend point, one's benefit increases by 15% of indexed earnings so $145.25 x 0.15 = $21.79.

And that roughly matches the output from my calculator (the $21 I referenced earlier). You're welcome, lol. :wink:

So if you calculated a $15 difference either:
1) your inputs are incorrect, or
2) you are misreading the outputs, or
3) the question you are asking does not match the question you think actually answered.

For example, are you calculating your benefit at full retirement age, or something else?

I write all that playfully and without criticism. :D This stuff can be quite confusing for most people, and it's important to "force" people to be as precise as possible with every aspect of their question. And, as I have learned personally, that can be VERY difficult. So let's all keep learning together. :)
If you have to ask "Is a Target Date fund right for me?", the answer is "Yes" (even in taxable accounts).
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dodecahedron
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by dodecahedron »

JoeRetire wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:06 pm
Dottie57 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:14 pmBecause the W2 information is not required until March 31st. I am surprised that programs updating statement data would be done already.
According to the Internal Revenue Service, W-2 forms should be mailed out to employees by no later than January 31.

It's not clear where you got the March 31 date from?
For many years (decades!), W-2s have indeed needed to be mailed to employees by Jan 31 BUT until relatively recently, employers did not need to submit them to SSA until the end of March. (I think the notion was that employees would spot and report discrepancies in their copies so the employer could file just one set of hopefully more correct forms with SSA by that later deadline.) The SSA would do further data cleanup and eventually forward them to the IRS. In many cases the IRS would not get the data forwarded to them by the SSA until August.

However, identity theft and fraud and other issues have created pressures so that as of a few years ago, most employers generally need to submit to SSA by Jan 31 at the same time as employees get their copies.

https://www.cfodailynews.com/news/new-l ... next-year/
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by Dottie57 »

JoeRetire wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:06 pm
Dottie57 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:14 pmBecause the W2 information is not required until March 31st. I am surprised that programs updating statement data would be done already.
According to the Internal Revenue Service, W-2 forms should be mailed out to employees by no later than January 31.

It's not clear where you got the March 31 date from?
I got it from ssa.gov

It was an explanation of the Master earnings file and processing around it. I will try to find the link.

ETA

The filing date changed for tax year 2016 . W-2 as of 2017 due to SSA from employer on Jan 31. Link is from IRS

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/reminder-e ... -this-year

Previously W-2 were due later. I believe in Feb for paper and March 31. The link for this info had an older date.
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by mattshwink »

Dottie57 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:11 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:06 pm
Dottie57 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:14 pmBecause the W2 information is not required until March 31st. I am surprised that programs updating statement data would be done already.
According to the Internal Revenue Service, W-2 forms should be mailed out to employees by no later than January 31.

It's not clear where you got the March 31 date from?
I got it from ssa.gov

It was an explanation of the Master earnings file and processing around it. I will try to find the link.

ETA

The filing date changed for tax year 2016 . W-2 as of 2017 due to SSA from employer on Jan 31. Link is from IRS

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/reminder-e ... -this-year

Previously W-2 were due later. I believe in Feb for paper and March 31. The link for this info had an older date.
So this discussion is about SS statements. Yes employers must mail (postmarked) W-2s by January 31st. But the discussion here is about SS statements and your earnings record. Employers have until March 31st to get the prior year data to SS (not the IRS):
https://www.thebalance.com/time-limit-f ... gs-3192946
MathWizard
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by MathWizard »

Assuming you are past the 2nd bendpoint already, then adding $61K means that average annual income over 35 yrs goes up by $61K/35
or about $1743 so average monthly income went up by $145.24
Multiplying by 15% gives $21.79 at full retirement age.
If you take it right away, you need to subtract 2/3 of one percent per month .

This does not seem like it would get you to an increase of only $15 per month. I agree with neurosphere, perhaps by way of sscritic , you entered something incorrectly.
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summerof42
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by summerof42 »

So if you calculated a $15 difference either:
1) your inputs are incorrect, or
2) you are misreading the outputs, or
3) the question you are asking does not match the question you think actually answered.
1. inputs are correct, I triple checked.
2. Looking at my statement as we speak, also looking at the calculations output - so no misreading on my end.
3. The question I asked, "wouldn't adding $61k to the best of 35 yrs, and eliminating 1 yr of $0, increase my SS more than $15." which I thought is the question I asked and should match what I think I actually asked; not quite sure what poster meant there and what that was all about.

FRA is June 2021. As indicated earlier, I added $61K (even though I feel it will be around $65) for 2020. For 2021 (FRA) I also used same number of $61K and ditto for 2022 - hence eliminating two years of $0 reportable income years which according to my math should return a better average and SS, but it only went up slightly around $15.

My apologies in advance if I caused any confusion, but I think I'm being pretty clear.
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by Dottie57 »

mattshwink wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:59 pm
Dottie57 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:11 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:06 pm
Dottie57 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:14 pmBecause the W2 information is not required until March 31st. I am surprised that programs updating statement data would be done already.
According to the Internal Revenue Service, W-2 forms should be mailed out to employees by no later than January 31.

It's not clear where you got the March 31 date from?
I got it from ssa.gov

It was an explanation of the Master earnings file and processing around it. I will try to find the link.

ETA

The filing date changed for tax year 2016 . W-2 as of 2017 due to SSA from employer on Jan 31. Link is from IRS

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/reminder-e ... -this-year

Previously W-2 were due later. I believe in Feb for paper and March 31. The link for this info had an older date.
So this discussion is about SS statements. Yes employers must mail (postmarked) W-2s by January 31st. But the discussion here is about SS statements and your earnings record. Employers have until March 31st to get the prior year data to SS (not the IRS):
https://www.thebalance.com/time-limit-f ... gs-3192946
Yes, SSA has to receive WW-2 info before it adds it to statements.

My statement with data on it from last year of employment wasn’t updated until June of next year. I kept checking to see estimated benefits.

I also wonder if benefits estimate recalculations aren’t done later in the year after earnings.
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by neurosphere »

summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:08 pm 3. The question I asked, "wouldn't adding $61k to the best of 35 yrs, and eliminating 1 yr of $0, increase my SS more than $15." which I thought is the question I asked and should match what I think I actually asked; not quite sure what poster meant there and what that was all about.

FRA is June 2021. As indicated earlier, I added $61K (even though I feel it will be around $65) for 2020. For 2021 (FRA) I also used same number of $61K and ditto for 2022 - hence eliminating two years of $0 reportable income years which according to my math should return a better average and SS, but it only went up slightly around $15.

My apologies in advance if I caused any confusion, but I think I'm being pretty clear.
I think the "question about the question" relates to ensuring we understand when you say "benefit" to make sure we're talking about the correct benefit. So for starters, I assume we are talking about calculating the effect on your benefit if retire exactly at your FRA? And your FRA is 66 and 2 months?

Next, let me see if I can reproduce your situation. What's your birth month/year (the actual day is not necessary UNLESS you are born on the first of the month, because first of the month birthdays are treated different from second, third, etc..). Although,

Second, what did you enter for "age at retirement" when using this calculator (https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/AnypiaApplet.html). I assume 66 and 2 months, if you were born in 1955.

I just entered a birthdate of 04/02/1955, a retirement age of 66 and 2 months. I added 30 years of maximal earnings (1978 to 2007) and calculated the "monthly retirement benefit". The, I added an additional year of $61,000 in earnings to 2019 and the benefit increased by $23. Interestingly, that's neither $15, nor $21. :D
If you have to ask "Is a Target Date fund right for me?", the answer is "Yes" (even in taxable accounts).
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by rkhusky »

I am past the 2nd bend point and I just tried adding $61K to my SS spreadsheet. I found that my AIME went up by $145 and my take at age 62 amount went up by $15/mo, age 67 went up by $22/mo, and age 70 went up by $27/mo. I haven't updated the spreadsheet for a year or so and it hasn't given exactly the same numbers as the SS estimate, but it's been close. And appears to match the sscritic numbers reported by neurosphere above.
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neurosphere
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by neurosphere »

Regarding W2 information, I think this has already been answered. But the instructions for the W2 (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw2w3.pdf) list the deadline as January 31st.

What's interesting to me is that is the deadline to get the data to Social Security. Interesting, because I had just always assumed W2 info went from employer-->IRS-->SS. Also what's interesting to me (and others apparently) is even though SS may have the info on Jan 31st*, that it ends up on benefit statements/estimates so quickly. Either it wasn't that fast in the past, or due to a later previous deadline people aren't used to it appearing this early in the year. I'm also guessing that things are likely now 100% automated, where perhaps there was also a recent period where even electronically filed information returns had a manual processing step.

And now I wonder, what if one is self-employed and also has a W2 job? If W2 wages appear on statements so quickly, and before a 1040 with Schedule C is filed, does that mean there is a period of time where SS only has or reports a portion of your wages?

*sscritic reminds us that the deadline changes if Jan 31st (or other due dates, for example 1099s I assume) falls on a weekend, and also mentions that leap years can also affect due dates.
If you have to ask "Is a Target Date fund right for me?", the answer is "Yes" (even in taxable accounts).
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by JW-Retired »

summerof42,
I think you ought to view the yearly increase of your SS payments as much much bigger from working & delaying SS than the measly $15. At your age, from now to age 70, a simple delay of SS from your age will amount to a 7 to 8% yearly boost over your FRA amount.

That's the increase to be thinking about. :beer
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Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by cleosdad »

neurosphere wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:42 pm
neurosphere wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:59 pm
summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:15 pmEffective 2020 income one of those zero years can be eliminated when determining the average; however, the on line calculator doesn't seem to reflect as such and it only goes up by around $15, yet I am eliminating a zero income for $61k which is quite a bit of a difference.

Does this seem right?
I entered some dummy data for a 65 years old, and assumed 30 years of "high" earnings. Then, I added a $61,000 in earnings for 2020. The benefit, if claiming at at age 65, increased by $21 per month.

That's more than your example, but perhaps it's enough in the ballpark to convince you that any expected increase would not be as much as you may have assumed?
A little birdy by the name of sscritic chirped in my ear just now, and gave some additional insights.

If you are 64.9 years old, you turn 65 in 2020, and thus your full retirement age is 66 and 2 months. Let's assume you are past the second bend point (as a result of prior earnings). If you have additional earnings after age 60, there is no indexing, and thus $61,000 = $61,000 in indexed earnings, which increases your AIME by $61,000/35/12 = $145.24. And after the second bend point, one's benefit increases by 15% of indexed earnings so $145.25 x 0.15 = $21.79.

And that roughly matches the output from my calculator (the $21 I referenced earlier). You're welcome, lol. :wink:

So if you calculated a $15 difference either:
1) your inputs are incorrect, or
2) you are misreading the outputs, or
3) the question you are asking does not match the question you think actually answered.

For example, are you calculating your benefit at full retirement age, or something else?

I write all that playfully and without criticism. :D This stuff can be quite confusing for most people, and it's important to "force" people to be as precise as possible with every aspect of their question. And, as I have learned personally, that can be VERY difficult. So let's all keep learning together. :)
Neurosphere
neurosphere wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:42 pm
neurosphere wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:59 pm
summerof42 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:15 pmEffective 2020 income one of those zero years can be eliminated when determining the average; however, the on line calculator doesn't seem to reflect as such and it only goes up by around $15, yet I am eliminating a zero income for $61k which is quite a bit of a difference.

Does this seem right?
I entered some dummy data for a 65 years old, and assumed 30 years of "high" earnings. Then, I added a $61,000 in earnings for 2020. The benefit, if claiming at at age 65, increased by $21 per month.

That's more than your example, but perhaps it's enough in the ballpark to convince you that any expected increase would not be as much as you may have assumed?
A little birdy by the name of sscritic chirped in my ear just now, and gave some additional insights.

If you are 64.9 years old, you turn 65 in 2020, and thus your full retirement age is 66 and 2 months. Let's assume you are past the second bend point (as a result of prior earnings). If you have additional earnings after age 60, there is no indexing, and thus $61,000 = $61,000 in indexed earnings, which increases your AIME by $61,000/35/12 = $145.24. And after the second bend point, one's benefit increases by 15% of indexed earnings so $145.25 x 0.15 = $21.79.

And that roughly matches the output from my calculator (the $21 I referenced earlier). You're welcome, lol. :wink:

So if you calculated a $15 difference either:
1) your inputs are incorrect, or
2) you are misreading the outputs, or
3) the question you are asking does not match the question you think actually answered.

For example, are you calculating your benefit at full retirement age, or something else?

I write all that playfully and without criticism. :D This stuff can be quite confusing for most people, and it's important to "force" people to be as precise as possible with every aspect of their question. And, as I have learned personally, that can be VERY difficult. So let's all keep learning together. :)
Neurosphere, tell your little birdy we miss him. cleosdad
User avatar
munemaker
Posts: 4338
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:14 pm

Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by munemaker »

Dottie57 wrote: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:14 pm
Because the W2 information is not required until March 31st. I am surprised that programs updating statement data would be done already.
According to the Internal Revenue Service, W-2 forms should be mailed out to employees by no later than January 31 for forms derived from the previous calendar year. While employees may not receive them in the mail on this date, they must – at the very least – be sent out at this point.

My wife continues to work (fairly low income) while collecting SS (fairly low amount - lots of years with "zeros"). The amount she receives increased in March 2019 based on 2018 earnings.
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Harry Livermore
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:32 am

Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by Harry Livermore »

neurosphere wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:31 am Regarding W2 information, I think this has already been answered. But the instructions for the W2 (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw2w3.pdf) list the deadline as January 31st.

What's interesting to me is that is the deadline to get the data to Social Security. Interesting, because I had just always assumed W2 info went from employer-->IRS-->SS. Also what's interesting to me (and others apparently) is even though SS may have the info on Jan 31st*, that it ends up on benefit statements/estimates so quickly. Either it wasn't that fast in the past, or due to a later previous deadline people aren't used to it appearing this early in the year. I'm also guessing that things are likely now 100% automated, where perhaps there was also a recent period where even electronically filed information returns had a manual processing step.

And now I wonder, what if one is self-employed and also has a W2 job? If W2 wages appear on statements so quickly, and before a 1040 with Schedule C is filed, does that mean there is a period of time where SS only has or reports a portion of your wages?

*sscritic reminds us that the deadline changes if Jan 31st (or other due dates, for example 1099s I assume) falls on a weekend, and also mentions that leap years can also affect due dates.
Hi, I'm self-employed (single person LLC) but also get some W2 pay. I can confirm that there is a huge lag between when each number shows up on my SSA statement. I can also echo that my experience in previous years was that I often would not see the W2 earnings until late in the spring, and the SE earnings in the summer.
We usually have everything we need to file by early March (I'm meeting the accountant this Thursday) but I don't know the processing lag from IRS--> SSA.
Cheers
Breakaway72
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:39 am

Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by Breakaway72 »

I will turn 70 in May. I had planned to visit the local SSA office in April to apply, with the first payment hitting my account in July.

I am currently on an overseas business trip and due to the Covid-19 situation all airline flights into/out of the region are cancelled. Not worried about my health. Local authorities have been all over it from the beginning, swabbing 100% of arrivals and strictly enforcing 14 day quarantine for all arrivals. However, I am not sure if I will be able to get home in May. Even if I do, not sure if SSA office will be open. I am currently receiving spousal benefits so I cannot pull up my record online. I have had no luck getting through to SSA on the phone so I am reaching out to the collective experience of the forum members.

If I do not succeed in applying until June or July, will I receive payment for June or is that money forfeited? Not really a hardship for me but I would hate to leave money on the table as I will be eligible for the maximum retirement payment (have paid the max into SS every year since 1973!) Thanks
Carl53
Posts: 2687
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:26 pm

Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by Carl53 »

Breakaway72 wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:54 am I will turn 70 in May. I had planned to visit the local SSA office in April to apply, with the first payment hitting my account in July.

I am currently on an overseas business trip and due to the Covid-19 situation all airline flights into/out of the region are cancelled. Not worried about my health. Local authorities have been all over it from the beginning, swabbing 100% of arrivals and strictly enforcing 14 day quarantine for all arrivals. However, I am not sure if I will be able to get home in May. Even if I do, not sure if SSA office will be open. I am currently receiving spousal benefits so I cannot pull up my record online. I have had no luck getting through to SSA on the phone so I am reaching out to the collective experience of the forum members.

If I do not succeed in applying until June or July, will I receive payment for June or is that money forfeited? Not really a hardship for me but I would hate to leave money on the table as I will be eligible for the maximum retirement payment (have paid the max into SS every year since 1973!) Thanks
You should be able to get up to 6 months of benefits retroactive if you sign up late. In fact a number of BHs have reported that even if you sign up to begin right at 70, you ought to explicitly say that you do not want retroactive benefits, since getting retroactive benefits to an age prior than 70 would permanently reduce your benefit.
michaeljc70
Posts: 10837
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Attn: Social Security Experts **question**

Post by michaeljc70 »

That number seems in the ballpark to me. I retired early and played with numerous scenarios (I am past the 2nd bend point) and was surprised how little difference working an extra year or two made. Though I have 35 years of credits, some were when I worked summers as a kid making very little money.
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