Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

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nucks
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Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by nucks »

Hi everyone! I've been diving deeply into my finances this past year and have really wished that a tool existed that did three things:
1. Showed a mind map of our personal finances broken down by accounts (to have a high-level view of our finances to keep track of ourselves and also to share with friends and others to help them manage their finances)
Note: I have Personal Capital and Mint accounts and neither of these tools does this. A good example of what I'm looking for is something similar to this: https://imgur.com/a/gfhuTev.

2. Allowed us to change allocations by changing the amounts (by percentage or by dollar amount) and could easily calculate projected earnings for investments given the allocations we set up

3. Provided a paycheck view where we could allocate incoming money that comes in into different buckets (accounts) and be able to change it all from one interface by simply dragging and dropping e.g., Have $2,500 set up to automatically transfer into Vanguard on the 2nd of every month, but easily be able to change the amount to $1,500 and have it transfer on the 5th of the month instead. Then be able to move the extra $1,000 into a separate Chase account, all without leaving the one tool.

Has anyone else looked for a tool that does things like this?
Last edited by nucks on Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by JoeRetire »

nucks wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:40 pm Has anyone else looked for a tool that does things like this?
I haven't.
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ARoseByAnyOtherName
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName »

nucks wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:40 pm Hi everyone! I've been diving deeply into my finances this past year and have really wished that a tool existed that did three things:
1. Showed a mind map of our personal finances broken down by accounts (to have a high-level view of our finances to keep track of ourselves and also to share with friends and others)
Note: I have Personal Capital and Mint accounts and neither of these tools does this. A good example of what I'm looking for is something similar to this: https://imgur.com/a/gfhuTev.

2. Allowed us to change allocations by changing the amounts (by percentage or by dollar amount) and could easily calculate projected earnings for investments given the allocations we set up

3. Provided a paycheck view where we could allocate incoming money that comes in into different buckets (accounts) and be able to change it all from one interface by simply dragging and dropping e.g., Have $2,500 set up to automatically transfer into Vanguard on the 2nd of every month, but easily be able to change the amount to $1,500 and have it transfer on the 5th of the month instead. Then be able to move the extra $1,000 into a separate Chase account, all without leaving the one tool.

Has anyone else looked for a tool that does things like this?
1. I don’t think there’s any tool that does this automatically but it should be easy for you to create yourself with any standard diagramming software, or even something like PowerPoint.

2. You could do this pretty easily with a spreadsheet.

3. You Need A Budget is probably the closest thing out there to this, you can implement buckets both with or without separate accounts. It’s not particularly graphical though and IMHO isn’t a great solution for investment accounts, it’s strength is more budgeting.

I don’t know if any tool that does all this in one package.
ARoseByAnyOtherName
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName »

ARoseByAnyOtherName wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:50 pm I don’t know if any tool that does all this in one package.
If you’re really really handy with Excel it may be possible to get some of the way there; dealing with the graphical elements will be hardest but may be doable.
Tdubs
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by Tdubs »

Regarding item #3. Folks are nervous about security at sites like Mint and Personal Capital that aggregates your financial information. Do you really want one that has the power to make major financial decisions across multiple institutions?
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by elvisimprsntr »

Tdubs wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:59 pm Regarding item #3. Folks are nervous about security at sites like Mint and Personal Capital that aggregates your financial information. Do you really want one that has the power to make major financial decisions across multiple institutions?
Not just no, but heck no!

I already have all my coin with one stop shopping Fidelity, with the exception of my employer 401k which is still linked via Fidelity Full View.
Last edited by elvisimprsntr on Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Topic Author
nucks
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by nucks »

Tdubs wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:59 pm Regarding item #3. Folks are nervous about security at sites like Mint and Personal Capital that aggregates your financial information. Do you really want one that has the power to make major financial decisions across multiple institutions?
I would want that. I like to keep all my finances on autopilot so this would save me from logging into each provider and checking that all my transfers are happening on the correct days, etc. It would also make it so I could see all the amounts in a single place and not have to manage it all over the place.

Why are people so nervous about using Mint and Personal Capital?
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nucks
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by nucks »

JoeRetire wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:38 pm
nucks wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:40 pm Has anyone else looked for a tool that does things like this?
I haven't.
Thanks for being honest :happy
Is there a reason you haven't?
MoneyMarathon
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by MoneyMarathon »

nucks wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:07 pm
Tdubs wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:59 pm Regarding item #3. Folks are nervous about security at sites like Mint and Personal Capital that aggregates your financial information. Do you really want one that has the power to make major financial decisions across multiple institutions?
I would want that. I like to keep all my finances on autopilot so this would save me from logging into each provider and checking that all my transfers are happening on the correct days, etc. It would also make it so I could see all the amounts in a single place and not have to manage it all over the place.

Why are people so nervous about using Mint and Personal Capital?
I'd think that the Mints and Personal Capitals of the world are more afraid of you, the consumer.

I knew a financial planner. Had a typical practice and was making low 6 figures. At one point he made an improper transaction on behalf of his largest client. Waited too long to sell something or something. The difference in value was $25,000. The financial planner was considered legally obligated to pay that money out of pocket, and he did, both to cover that obligation and keep the account.

It's risky enough providing an aggregate view that consolidates your credentials. They'd be taking on a lot of risk to be moving your money around and that risk can't easily be paid for without a percentage of assets under management.
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by dbr »

I think the presentation part would work well in Excel. I have worksheets that have some semblance to those sorts of diagrams though not specifically the display you want.

I think running an application on your computer that actually directs interactions with banks and brokers would be a really bad idea, even if it could be done. Security loopholes and errors would be a big concern for me. Be sure to tip the chefs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rm9sbG93ZXJz (This is not a scam url.)
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nucks
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by nucks »

dbr wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:29 pm I think the presentation part would work well in Excel. I have worksheets that have some semblance to those sorts of diagrams though not specifically the display you want.

I think running an application on your computer that actually directs interactions with banks and brokers would be a really bad idea, even if it could be done. Security loopholes and errors would be a big concern for me. Be sure to tip the chefs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rm9sbG93ZXJz (This is not a scam url.)
The only thing I don't understand is how what I'm suggesting is so different than doing it through your bank's online interface. I'm thinking of very simple transactions. For example, on X day of the month transfer X amount of money from my checking to my savings.
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by sailaway »

nucks wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:33 pm
dbr wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:29 pm I think the presentation part would work well in Excel. I have worksheets that have some semblance to those sorts of diagrams though not specifically the display you want.

I think running an application on your computer that actually directs interactions with banks and brokers would be a really bad idea, even if it could be done. Security loopholes and errors would be a big concern for me. Be sure to tip the chefs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rm9sbG93ZXJz (This is not a scam url.)
The only thing I don't understand is how what I'm suggesting is so different than doing it through your bank's online interface. I'm thinking of very simple transactions. For example, on X day of the month transfer X amount of money from my checking to my savings.
It is different because you are giving that log in information and transfer authority to a third party. Some folks worry about Mint, and that is basically giving read only access to the accounts.
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FIREchief
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by FIREchief »

I would focus less on tracking and more on saving. When in doubt, just buy more stocks! :beer
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
dbr
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by dbr »

nucks wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:33 pm
dbr wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:29 pm I think the presentation part would work well in Excel. I have worksheets that have some semblance to those sorts of diagrams though not specifically the display you want.

I think running an application on your computer that actually directs interactions with banks and brokers would be a really bad idea, even if it could be done. Security loopholes and errors would be a big concern for me. Be sure to tip the chefs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rm9sbG93ZXJz (This is not a scam url.)
The only thing I don't understand is how what I'm suggesting is so different than doing it through your bank's online interface. I'm thinking of very simple transactions. For example, on X day of the month transfer X amount of money from my checking to my savings.
Maybe it isn't different. I have never heard of it when entering transactions in the public domain. This sort of thing would be common in any computerized manufacturing process control and might even involve real time interaction with inventory and accounting systems. I have done that kind of thing but it was all captive within the IT system of one organization.
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by nisiprius »

I'm not sure exactly what a "mind map" is. I try to keep my accounts simple enough that I can keep a picture in my mind without software tools. I want to be able to see my financial situation with the naked mind.
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by GrowthSeeker »

nucks wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:33 pm
dbr wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:29 pm I think running an application on your computer that actually directs interactions with banks and brokers would be a really bad idea, even if it could be done. Security loopholes and errors would be a big concern for me.
The only thing I don't understand is how what I'm suggesting is so different than doing it through your bank's online interface. I'm thinking of very simple transactions. For example, on X day of the month transfer X amount of money from my checking to my savings.
For the same reason I don't let browsers save my password when logging into a bank or brokerage.

If I understand, you're talking about a software which provides a meaningful graphical user interface which not only shows you the current status of all your financial "things", but also lets you manipulate your financial assets from the software.
The problem would be, if someone gets access to that single software program, they can wreck havoc on all your financial assets very easily because if they can get into your cool software, they can also get into every account you have, because you have given your software access to everything.

Maybe if your software forces you to provide credentials every time you manipulate an account and never saves the username/passwords, maybe that would be OK.

I like the map, like a snapshot in time, just not letting the map access everything.

But I have all my bills on autopay via various means.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you.
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nucks
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by nucks »

GrowthSeeker wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:51 pm But I have all my bills on autopay via various means.
Do you find it difficult to manage autopay of different bills via various means?
aristotelian
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by aristotelian »

I came across something similar a while back. Looked like more effort than I wanted to put into it but it could work for you.

https://amp.reddit.com/r/financialindep ... ld_budget/
H-Town
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by H-Town »

nucks wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:40 pm Hi everyone! I've been diving deeply into my finances this past year and have really wished that a tool existed that did three things:
1. Showed a mind map of our personal finances broken down by accounts (to have a high-level view of our finances to keep track of ourselves and also to share with friends and others)
Note: I have Personal Capital and Mint accounts and neither of these tools does this. A good example of what I'm looking for is something similar to this: https://imgur.com/a/gfhuTev.

2. Allowed us to change allocations by changing the amounts (by percentage or by dollar amount) and could easily calculate projected earnings for investments given the allocations we set up

3. Provided a paycheck view where we could allocate incoming money that comes in into different buckets (accounts) and be able to change it all from one interface by simply dragging and dropping e.g., Have $2,500 set up to automatically transfer into Vanguard on the 2nd of every month, but easily be able to change the amount to $1,500 and have it transfer on the 5th of the month instead. Then be able to move the extra $1,000 into a separate Chase account, all without leaving the one tool.

Has anyone else looked for a tool that does things like this?
I use Excel. How else would you keep historical data? What if you want to calculate tax basis? Or want to see trends with your spending? What if you want to look for how much you spent on your backyard fence 5 years ago and who was your service provider? What if you want to see if your saving rate is adequate for your financial goals?

Excel can do it all.

I don't like the idea of sharing your big picture finances with friends and others. Nothing good would come out of it. Discuss your finances with your spouse/significant other and only that person.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by JoeRetire »

nucks wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:08 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:38 pm
nucks wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:40 pm Has anyone else looked for a tool that does things like this?
I haven't.
Thanks for being honest :happy
Is there a reason you haven't?
I just don't see the point. I have yet to see a mind map that had any value for me.

I worked with someone who thought the entire world should be mind-mapped. She spent an awful lot of time evangelizing and producing pretty pictures, until she was fired. As far as I can tell, she never produced anything worthwhile.

If it works for you, that's great. But honestly, I don't see it.
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camillus
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by camillus »

I think this is unnecessary and might suggest your financial life is too complicated.

Paycheck-> checking -> bills & contributions

FWIW, I use ynab which allows me to track “funds” (subaccounts) all within the same checking account. Even so, I’m moving away from this towards a more simple system:

Have money -> invest
ARoseByAnyOtherName
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName »

nucks wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:07 pm I would want that. I like to keep all my finances on autopilot so this would save me from logging into each provider and checking that all my transfers are happening on the correct days, etc.
Cant you set up auto-transfers to accomplish the same thing?
nucks wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:07 pm It would also make it so I could see all the amounts in a single place and not have to manage it all over the place.
Can’t you consolidate all your accounts with a single provider to accomplish the same thing?
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by System1 »

nucks wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:01 pm
GrowthSeeker wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:51 pm But I have all my bills on autopay via various means.
Do you find it difficult to manage autopay of different bills via various means?
I don't find it difficult. I have part of my paycheck go straight to the bank with my car loan, which transfers to pay it automatically, it's maintenance free and I get an interest reduction for it. The rest goes to a checking account that automatically pays all my other bills, via transfers, bill pay, etc. as required by the institution. I have no consistent bill that isn't auto paid and I've only had a couple problems ver the years when I made an account change and didn't get everything updated quite right. A phone call got everything worked out and fees refunded. I use YNAB to track spending and make sure I spend less than I earn.
Target2019
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by Target2019 »

I made this diagram with Google io.draw. The main purpose is to have a visual portrayal of flow, which is simple to explain.

Image

I started something similar for in-laws many years ago, hand-drawn on an 11x17 sheet.
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by elvisimprsntr »

My parents had a complex web of accounts and money flows. Parents asked me to take over finances (with siblings approval) after I showed them my net worth and how I was doing everything through Fidelity (one stop shopping). I had to map out all the accounts and flows first in order unwind the complex web of banks, checking, investments, automatic debit, direct deposit (pension/SS), credit cards, etc. It took about 6 months to complete, then added everyone as POA, authorized access, check writing, beneficiaries, etc. We can all access our own and parents accounts via separate individual Fidelity login. Also makes all transactions completely transparent among the entire family. When my mother passed, it was one visit to the local Fidelity Investment Center to submit all the paperwork. I encourage others to consider consolidating accounts and flows to make it easier to manage.
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by GrowthSeeker »

nucks wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:01 pm
GrowthSeeker wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:51 pm But I have all my bills on autopay via various means.
Do you find it difficult to manage autopay of different bills via various means?
No.
Most bills are auto paid from primary checking account's "bill pay" feature.
Some are done by having the biller pull from my checking (or savings) account.
Paycheck while I was working / SS check now gets auto deposited.
Checking is set up to automatically pull from Savings if checking gets overdrawn.
Periodically, I have to shunt dollars from savings to checking or from elsewhere to savings - and this is the one part I don't have automated (well, except for overdrawn checks).

While working, my checking balance was ridiculously large, so I never had to worry about it (and I was ignoring lost interest income - that was my mental accounting at the time). Now with expenses greater than SS income, I do have to figure out a steady amount to shunt into the checking account.

---
What I do have is a LibreOffice Calc spreadsheet with each account, and for investment accounts, each holding. There are only about 30 lines, not counting subtotals and spaces.
I then have a google sheets spreadsheet which auto saves online and which auto updates. It has a column with every stock/fund/etf I either have or might consider or am following. Next to it is a cell with something like "=GOOGLEFINANCE(A3,"price")"
The LibreOffice spreadsheet has a data tab with the identical list of stock/fund/etf in the same order. All I have to do to update prices, is copy a column of numbers from the google sheet to the appropriate column in the LibreOffice sheet's data tab (paste special, as numbers).
The main working tab of the LibreOffice sheet gets its data from the data tab into which I paste periodically.
Why: my personal details are not saved in the google cloud, they are only on my computer and wherever my computer does backups to.

What my system lacks is automatic pulling of account balance from bank accounts; I have to do that manually - that's the weakness of my system, but it doesn't bother me that much.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you.
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nucks
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by nucks »

Target2019 wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:38 am Image
This is exactly what I have in mind, but I was hoping there'd be a tool to make it simpler for me (and the ability to change flows and allocation numbers would be really nice to have).

Having done this, has it proven to be useful? How often do you refer to it? Do you wish that you could change allocations via the chart, or is your chart sufficient for all you wanted it to do?
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Re: Has anyone else wanted a mind map of their financial accounts?

Post by Target2019 »

nucks wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:41 am
Target2019 wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:38 am ...
This is exactly what I have in mind, but I was hoping there'd be a tool to make it simpler for me (and the ability to change flows and allocation numbers would be really nice to have).

Having done this, has it proven to be useful? How often do you refer to it? Do you wish that you could change allocations via the chart, or is your chart sufficient for all you wanted it to do?
Google Draw.io is one free tool - all editable by you once it is created. Could do it in Excel, Word, etc. I'd start with hand-drawn draft first.

It's very useful as I mentioned, to analyze for others in a simplified visual. Most people understand this within a short time.

I've done a half-dozen of these for in-laws when I was managing their finances and income streams.

The example is my future model, and used with previous version shows me what needs to be simplified. And of course the money flows are in there. So our known expenses will be largely met by regular inputs (SS, Pension, etc.)

I'll update this at the beginning of each year, and add a print to my legacy binder.

There is no need for me to change allocations by pushing buttons on this chart. I see that as something that could be helpful, but I wouldn't create a console screen from this in hopes that it would do anything useful for me personally. Our invested assets are analyzed in Excel, and updated totals are entered monthly for each fund.

Combining functions into increasingly complex lines of code to produce management screens automatically is expensive.
:moneybag
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