Umbrella insurance cost

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lgb
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by lgb »

We recently just shopped all our personal and business insurance.

We always had a 1 Million Umbrella policy with State Farm that covered UM/UIM for Personal - and we were paying $677/year - and we had auto and homeowners with them as well. But just dropped them and switched to Travelers and saved a nice chunk annually. Probably enough to pay for adding another child to Auto next year.

Switched to Travelers this year for Personal (for Homeowners, Auto and Personal 1 Million Umbrella) and originally it was quoted without the UM/UIM originally and just liability only for $363/year as it was stated that is pretty normal in the industry...., until we pointed out that through our existing State Farm it included UM/UIM so they adjusted it to include that and it came to.... $498/year and the agent recommended it for a lot of the reasons already mentioned above. 2 Adults, 1 now adult age 18 driver (child in my mind!) and 1 more driver (child) about to start driving - both girls. 3 cars, no other high risk stuff.
We're just under age 45.
boglerdude
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by boglerdude »

> UM/UIM is the single most important coverage you need under your umbrella policy

Wouldnt it better to have a disability policy that covers you when driving and when not
twr
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by twr »

We’re paying $795 for $5m. After reading all these other replies, I’m terrified how much it’s going to jump when our son gets his license in a decade or so. :shock:
quantAndHold
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by quantAndHold »

willthrill81 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:28 pm When we had it, we paid about $96/year for $1 million. $1,200/year for $2 million seems absurdly expensive.

Considering that all of our investments are protected by federal and/or state law from creditors, only a portion of our home equity is exposed. As such, we no longer carry any umbrella insurance. Our homeowner's and auto liability both cover more than the portion of our 'exposed' home equity.
Home equity and future earnings, you mean.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
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Cernel
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by Cernel »

$240/yr for $3M
2 Adults over 65.
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by abuss368 »

We dragged for many years until we purchased a policy. Umbrella is so cheap and offers a lot of protection that in my opinion it is foolish not to have for the low cost involved.
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MikeG62
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by MikeG62 »

boglerdude wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:13 pm > UM/UIM is the single most important coverage you need under your umbrella policy

Wouldnt it better to have a disability policy that covers you when driving and when not
Your disability insurance would not cover passengers in your car who are seriously injured because of an accident caused by someone without insurance or with very modest insurance coverage. Wouldn’t you want there to be significant coverage to assist your injured passengers in a case such as this?

FWIW, I have a $5 million umbrella sitting on top of my auto and homeowners and have elected to add the UI/UIM coverage.
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skeptical
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by skeptical »

twr wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:36 pm We’re paying $795 for $5m. After reading all these other replies, I’m terrified how much it’s going to jump when our son gets his license in a decade or so. :shock:
I pay $1000 for $5M, plus $7K for car insurance (2 adults 2 teenagers who drive), 3 cars. The latter is a requirement for the former, and applies even though one of the kids in is college and does not have a car. Without the kids and the extra car, the car insurance would be $1500.
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by skeptical »

willthrill81 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:28 pm When we had it, we paid about $96/year for $1 million. $1,200/year for $2 million seems absurdly expensive.
My experience/research indicates that the per million cost goes up the more you buy (if you can buy it).
That being said, $1200 for $2M does seem like a lot
twr
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by twr »

skeptical wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:00 am
twr wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:36 pm We’re paying $795 for $5m. After reading all these other replies, I’m terrified how much it’s going to jump when our son gets his license in a decade or so. :shock:
I pay $1000 for $5M, plus $7K for car insurance (2 adults 2 teenagers who drive), 3 cars. The latter is a requirement for the former, and applies even though one of the kids in is college and does not have a car. Without the kids and the extra car, the car insurance would be $1500.
Yikes, yeah we pay ~$1,500 for car insurance right now, it'll be interesting to see the jump that happens. I wish there was a 529-esque savings account specifically for insurance premiums for 16-25 year olds that covered under your policy.
SlowMovingInvestor
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by SlowMovingInvestor »

willthrill81 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:28 pm When we had it, we paid about $96/year for $1 million. $1,200/year for $2 million seems absurdly expensive.

Considering that all of our investments are protected by federal and/or state law from creditors, only a portion of our home equity is exposed. As such, we no longer carry any umbrella insurance. Our homeowner's and auto liability both cover more than the portion of our 'exposed' home equity.

But umbrella also protects your future earning potential, right ? That is probably much more than exposed home equity.
skeptical
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by skeptical »

twr wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:15 am
skeptical wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:00 am
twr wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:36 pm We’re paying $795 for $5m. After reading all these other replies, I’m terrified how much it’s going to jump when our son gets his license in a decade or so. :shock:
I pay $1000 for $5M, plus $7K for car insurance (2 adults 2 teenagers who drive), 3 cars. The latter is a requirement for the former, and applies even though one of the kids in is college and does not have a car. Without the kids and the extra car, the car insurance would be $1500.
Yikes, yeah we pay ~$1,500 for car insurance right now, it'll be interesting to see the jump that happens. I wish there was a 529-esque savings account specifically for insurance premiums for 16-25 year olds that covered under your policy.
You also need to add extra for parking tickets, fender benders and scratches (to your car and other cars), plus damage to your property (garage, garage doors, anything that sticks up above ground level on the way in/out of the garage. This adds up to over $1k per year.

:-)
Atilla
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by Atilla »

$1 million coverage through Erie. 2 adults, $288.00 per year. Just got my bill.
SchruteB&B
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by SchruteB&B »

willthrill81 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:28 pm When we had it, we paid about $96/year for $1 million. $1,200/year for $2 million seems absurdly expensive.
The people on this thread with young children/no children posting their umbrella costs is completely irrelevant. When you have multiple drivers ages 16-25, as the OP does, THAT is what drives the umbrella cost.
invest4
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by invest4 »

As noted by others, the addition of teen drivers has a significant impact. Not long ago I was quoted $1500 for 1M policy for 2 adult and 2 teens (17 & 18) from Allstate. My mouth was agape. Of course, in fairness...the risks are much higher.
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willthrill81
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by willthrill81 »

quantAndHold wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:56 am
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:28 pm When we had it, we paid about $96/year for $1 million. $1,200/year for $2 million seems absurdly expensive.

Considering that all of our investments are protected by federal and/or state law from creditors, only a portion of our home equity is exposed. As such, we no longer carry any umbrella insurance. Our homeowner's and auto liability both cover more than the portion of our 'exposed' home equity.
Home equity and future earnings, you mean.
SlowMovingInvestor wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:19 am But umbrella also protects your future earning potential, right ? That is probably much more than exposed home equity.
It's possible for the courts to garnish future earnings, but it's pretty rare because plaintiffs don't want to wait that long to get their money. They and their attorneys much prefer going after assets. If you don't have many assets that they could go for, that often prevents the lawsuit from ever materializing at all.

Beyond that, I'm not of the perspective that just because there is a theoretical risk of an event and you can buy insurance to cover it means that you should.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by ncbill »

MikeG62 wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:23 am
boglerdude wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:13 pm > UM/UIM is the single most important coverage you need under your umbrella policy

Wouldnt it better to have a disability policy that covers you when driving and when not
Your disability insurance would not cover passengers in your car who are seriously injured because of an accident caused by someone without insurance or with very modest insurance coverage. Wouldn’t you want there to be significant coverage to assist your injured passengers in a case such as this?

FWIW, I have a $5 million umbrella sitting on top of my auto and homeowners and have elected to add the UI/UIM coverage.
Was adding UI/UIM very expensive?

Current umbrella (Travelers) is liability only...but to get that I had to raise auto liability to $500k/$500k, so that is also UI/UIM coverage.
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by fru-gal »

FOGU wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:29 pm I am curious why people feel the need to maintain liability limits of $5M? Is there some special activity in which you are engaged? Are you an aviator?

Seriously, why the limits? I guess $50 a month is nothing to many people considering the extra protection. Just curious on the thinking.

Thank you.
Suppose someone gets horribly hurt and needs medical care for the rest of their life. Will $1 million cover that? I think not.
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by MikeG62 »

ncbill wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:17 pm
MikeG62 wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:23 am
boglerdude wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:13 pm > UM/UIM is the single most important coverage you need under your umbrella policy

Wouldnt it better to have a disability policy that covers you when driving and when not
Your disability insurance would not cover passengers in your car who are seriously injured because of an accident caused by someone without insurance or with very modest insurance coverage. Wouldn’t you want there to be significant coverage to assist your injured passengers in a case such as this?

FWIW, I have a $5 million umbrella sitting on top of my auto and homeowners and have elected to add the UI/UIM coverage.
Was adding UI/UIM very expensive?

Current umbrella (Travelers) is liability only...but to get that I had to raise auto liability to $500k/$500k, so that is also UI/UIM coverage.
It added about $250 per year to the cost (increased premium from $750 to $1,000) as I recall. I have my umbrella with NJM. Before NJM I had an umbrella with RLI and the UI/UIM coverage with RLI roughly doubled the premium. So may depend on who you have your umbrella with.
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MikeG62
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by MikeG62 »

fru-gal wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:31 pm
FOGU wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:29 pm I am curious why people feel the need to maintain liability limits of $5M? Is there some special activity in which you are engaged? Are you an aviator?

Seriously, why the limits? I guess $50 a month is nothing to many people considering the extra protection. Just curious on the thinking.

Thank you.
Suppose someone gets horribly hurt and needs medical care for the rest of their life. Will $1 million cover that? I think not.
Or what if someone died, especially a young parent who is the main earner?

I’ve posted this before, but will repeat it here.

Aunt of my brother-in-law (retired college professor, married with one grown adult son) was killed in an automobile accident about 7-8 years ago. The family sued the driver of the SUV who hit them. Case was settled for $5M ($4M to the now widowed husband for pain and suffering (he was pretty badly injured in the accident too, but has since recovered) and loss of spouse and $1M to the child for loss of mom).

I was told the driver of the vehicle was not the owner of the vehicle (but was the boyfriend or fiance of the owner or daughter of the vehicle owner). I was told the owner of the vehicle was very wealthy and that the driver was not at all wealthy. I assume the $5M may have come from umbrella, but it is just an assumption. I really don't know. The case was settled during the trial (before a jury verdict was reached).

As i said, woman killed was a "retired" professor. Her husband was also a "retired" professor. There were no small children involved. No one was relying on the income stream of the woman who died to make ends meet. Yet, the settlement was $5M.

Imagine what the settlement might be if you killed someone in a car accident who was a young professional in a high (or very high) wage earning position, with possibly a stay at home wife and several young children relying on the deceased's earnings. It is not hard to imagine quite a large settlement in a situation like that.

The takeaway for me has been to get the largest umbrella one can reasonably afford to purchase.

Counterbalancing this are posts in this forum from a litigation attorney (mptfan) handling personal injury matters whose first hand experience suggests an umbrella is not necessary.

So do what you think is best. I’m ok paying the $1,000 a year for my $5 million policy.
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RLL1949
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by RLL1949 »

Currently paying $753 per year for $5 million policy for 2 adults, 2 cars, home with swimming pool.
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by boglerdude »

> Imagine what the settlement might be if you killed someone in a car accident who was a young professional in a high earning position

The settlement would be for whatever the policy limit is, as usual.
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by ChicagoBear7 »

boglerdude wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:09 am > Imagine what the settlement might be if you killed someone in a car accident who was a young professional in a high earning position

The settlement would be for whatever the policy limit is, as usual.
True, but you should carry a reasonable amount of insurance because:

1. Bankruptcy is not a reasonable option for persons in certain industries or jobs (finance, security clearance etc.)
2. While ERISA plans can not be attached, several federal courts have held that the funds from an ERISA plan can be attached when withdrawn and are no longer in "the plan". RMDs will eventually need to be taken and can be seized.
3. There are states that do not protect or give only limited protection to IRAs and Roth IRAs. Also, the fraudulent transfer rules will keep you from moving these funds into an ERISA plan after an accident.
4. Inherited IRAs are NOT protected per a Supreme Court ruling.
5. If you have millions and are driving with a small amount of liability coverage in relation to your perceived worth, you are asking for some aggrieved family member to pull a "Bonasera".
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Zetorman
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by Zetorman »

ChicagoBear7 wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:07 pm
boglerdude wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:09 am > Imagine what the settlement might be if you killed someone in a car accident who was a young professional in a high earning position

The settlement would be for whatever the policy limit is, as usual.
True, but you should carry a reasonable amount of insurance because:

1. Bankruptcy is not a reasonable option for persons in certain industries or jobs (finance, security clearance etc.)
2. While ERISA plans can not be attached, several federal courts have held that the funds from an ERISA plan can be attached when withdrawn and are no longer in "the plan". RMDs will eventually need to be taken and can be seized.
3. There are states that do not protect or give only limited protection to IRAs and Roth IRAs. Also, the fraudulent transfer rules will keep you from moving these funds into an ERISA plan after an accident.
4. Inherited IRAs are NOT protected per a Supreme Court ruling.
5. If you have millions and are driving with a small amount of liability coverage in relation to your perceived worth, you are asking for some aggrieved family member to pull a "Bonasera".
Good information! I was planning on dropping the umbrella once my young ones are on their own. However, you have given me some points to research before making that decision.
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by fru-gal »

boglerdude wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:09 am > Imagine what the settlement might be if you killed someone in a car accident who was a young professional in a high earning position

The settlement would be for whatever the policy limit is, as usual.
I've never believed this. I don't see why someone hurt to the tune of $X would accept a settlement of less than $X if the policy is less than that but the responsible party has assets.
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by boglerdude »

Say your medical bills are 700k and the defendant's policy is 500k

You have to front the costs of trial, and wont get those back if you lose. Trial will take years, with fees in the hundreds of thousands.

In court you'll need to convince the jury of foreseeable negligence/malintent if you want punitive damages. Then more fees @$250/hour as you pursue collection.

If you win, your health insurance will take what they paid out. Ask your lawyer friends why cases always settle.

All that said, everyone should have 1M umbrella.
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by ncbill »

boglerdude wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:23 am Say your medical bills are 700k and the defendant's policy is 500k

You have to front the costs of trial, and wont get those back if you lose. Trial will take years, with fees in the hundreds of thousands.

In court you'll need to convince the jury of foreseeable negligence/malintent if you want punitive damages. Then more fees @$250/hour as you pursue collection.

If you win, your health insurance will take what they paid out. Ask your lawyer friends why cases always settle.

All that said, everyone should have 1M umbrella.
1. The plaintiff would hire an attorney working on contingency...it's the attorney who fronts the money, not the plaintiff.

Still, it's a high risk strategy when 1, 2, or 5 million dollars from an umbrella policy is available nearly immediately for a settlement.

2. In the one case I was peripherally involved (business I worked for sued) the plaintiff had already racked up 6 figures in bills with Medicaid, who would have slapped a lien on any direct award.

So the plaintiff's attorney wanted any settlement paid to a Medicaid trust...i.e. the plaintiff would have access to the earnings until they died, with their children then the beneficiaries of the principal.

BTW, in the case above the plaintiff rejected what was (IIRC) after negotiation a $2 million settlement offer, took it to trial (though getting there took years) and lost.

Leaving their children, for whom they were the sole provider, bupkis.

Which is why it's usually better to take a settlement even if it doesn't "make one whole."
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by Call_Me_Op »

fru-gal wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:12 pm
erictiger12 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:03 pm Pay $400 with Amica for 2 millions, one teen boy driver away in college.
$390 AMICA, $5 mil, one person. They have my auto and homeowners.
That is quite low. Do you live in a rural area?
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by Call_Me_Op »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:28 am Beyond that, I'm not of the perspective that just because there is a theoretical risk of an event and you can buy insurance to cover it means that you should.
I am of that "perspective" if materialization of said event can wipe me out financially.
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Luckywon
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by Luckywon »

$700 for $5 million from AAA. 2 adults.

I looked into purchasing more but that's the lookout from AAA. I increased my auto liability limit from required $500k to $1 million so limit is $6 million if accident involves auto.
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by UALflyer »

Call_Me_Op wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:47 am
fru-gal wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:12 pm
erictiger12 wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:03 pm Pay $400 with Amica for 2 millions, one teen boy driver away in college.
$390 AMICA, $5 mil, one person. They have my auto and homeowners.
That is quite low. Do you live in a rural area?
The premise of this thread is somewhat faulty, as the line item on your insurance statement showing the premium associated with your umbrella policy doesn't necessarily tell you the actual cost of your umbrella policy. That's because with a number of insurance companies, having an umbrella policy (or one in a specific amount) qualifies you for additional discounts on other insurance lines with the same carrier. Other insurance companies don't follow this approach.

So, discovering the true net cost of your umbrella policy requires you to compare all your policy premiums with and without your umbrella policy. So, for instance, an insurance company that gives you a $200 discount on your HO or auto policy for having a $500 $5MM umbrella with it is actually cheaper than another insurance company that quotes a $400 premium for the same $5MM umbrella with no additional discounts on other policies.

Likewise, in a number of states, there are additional features that can be added to umbrella policies than can affect the overall price. So, for instance, while the face amount of the umbrella policies may be the same, if one of them provides the same coverage for uninsured/underinsured claims while another one does not, the price is likely to be quite different.
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by willthrill81 »

Call_Me_Op wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:53 am
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:28 am Beyond that, I'm not of the perspective that just because there is a theoretical risk of an event and you can buy insurance to cover it means that you should.
I am of that "perspective" if materialization of said event can wipe me out financially.
So do you own some physical gold and silver as insurance against the financial system imploding?
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by smitcat »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:28 am
quantAndHold wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:56 am
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:28 pm When we had it, we paid about $96/year for $1 million. $1,200/year for $2 million seems absurdly expensive.

Considering that all of our investments are protected by federal and/or state law from creditors, only a portion of our home equity is exposed. As such, we no longer carry any umbrella insurance. Our homeowner's and auto liability both cover more than the portion of our 'exposed' home equity.
Home equity and future earnings, you mean.
SlowMovingInvestor wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:19 am But umbrella also protects your future earning potential, right ? That is probably much more than exposed home equity.
It's possible for the courts to garnish future earnings, but it's pretty rare because plaintiffs don't want to wait that long to get their money. They and their attorneys much prefer going after assets. If you don't have many assets that they could go for, that often prevents the lawsuit from ever materializing at all.

Beyond that, I'm not of the perspective that just because there is a theoretical risk of an event and you can buy insurance to cover it means that you should.
"It's possible for the courts to garnish future earnings, but it's pretty rare because plaintiffs don't want to wait that long to get their money."
Do you have any data that explains the occurrences of lawsuits going after future earnings?
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by willthrill81 »

smitcat wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:09 am
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:28 am
quantAndHold wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:56 am
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:28 pm When we had it, we paid about $96/year for $1 million. $1,200/year for $2 million seems absurdly expensive.

Considering that all of our investments are protected by federal and/or state law from creditors, only a portion of our home equity is exposed. As such, we no longer carry any umbrella insurance. Our homeowner's and auto liability both cover more than the portion of our 'exposed' home equity.
Home equity and future earnings, you mean.
SlowMovingInvestor wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:19 am But umbrella also protects your future earning potential, right ? That is probably much more than exposed home equity.
It's possible for the courts to garnish future earnings, but it's pretty rare because plaintiffs don't want to wait that long to get their money. They and their attorneys much prefer going after assets. If you don't have many assets that they could go for, that often prevents the lawsuit from ever materializing at all.

Beyond that, I'm not of the perspective that just because there is a theoretical risk of an event and you can buy insurance to cover it means that you should.
"It's possible for the courts to garnish future earnings, but it's pretty rare because plaintiffs don't want to wait that long to get their money."
Do you have any data that explains the occurrences of lawsuits going after future earnings?
No. My view is based on statements I've heard from many attorneys, including one that posts regularly here and says that plaintiffs nearly always settle for the amount covered by the defendant's insurance.

At any rate, if most of your assets are in accounts protected by ERISA and/or similar state laws, declaring bankruptcy becomes a real options ince it stops all wage garnishments.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by abuss368 »

With Umbrella premiums such low cost I am surprised we are even debating the merits.
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by willthrill81 »

abuss368 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:32 am With Umbrella premiums such low cost I am surprised we are even debating the merits.
The premiums aren't always low. The OP is looking at $1,200 annually. I don't consider $100/month to be low cost.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by smitcat »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:25 am
smitcat wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:09 am
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:28 am
quantAndHold wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:56 am
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:28 pm When we had it, we paid about $96/year for $1 million. $1,200/year for $2 million seems absurdly expensive.

Considering that all of our investments are protected by federal and/or state law from creditors, only a portion of our home equity is exposed. As such, we no longer carry any umbrella insurance. Our homeowner's and auto liability both cover more than the portion of our 'exposed' home equity.
Home equity and future earnings, you mean.
SlowMovingInvestor wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:19 am But umbrella also protects your future earning potential, right ? That is probably much more than exposed home equity.
It's possible for the courts to garnish future earnings, but it's pretty rare because plaintiffs don't want to wait that long to get their money. They and their attorneys much prefer going after assets. If you don't have many assets that they could go for, that often prevents the lawsuit from ever materializing at all.

Beyond that, I'm not of the perspective that just because there is a theoretical risk of an event and you can buy insurance to cover it means that you should.
"It's possible for the courts to garnish future earnings, but it's pretty rare because plaintiffs don't want to wait that long to get their money."
Do you have any data that explains the occurrences of lawsuits going after future earnings?
No. My view is based on statements I've heard from many attorneys, including one that posts regularly here and says that plaintiffs nearly always settle for the amount covered by the defendant's insurance.

At any rate, if most of your assets are in accounts protected by ERISA and/or similar state laws, declaring bankruptcy becomes a real options ince it stops all wage garnishments.
Thank you - at my past company we had at least 6 folks that had their wages garnished due to these types of events.
Just wondering if there was any data around.
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willthrill81
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by willthrill81 »

smitcat wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:56 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:25 am
smitcat wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:09 am
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:28 am
quantAndHold wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:56 am

Home equity and future earnings, you mean.
SlowMovingInvestor wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:19 am But umbrella also protects your future earning potential, right ? That is probably much more than exposed home equity.
It's possible for the courts to garnish future earnings, but it's pretty rare because plaintiffs don't want to wait that long to get their money. They and their attorneys much prefer going after assets. If you don't have many assets that they could go for, that often prevents the lawsuit from ever materializing at all.

Beyond that, I'm not of the perspective that just because there is a theoretical risk of an event and you can buy insurance to cover it means that you should.
"It's possible for the courts to garnish future earnings, but it's pretty rare because plaintiffs don't want to wait that long to get their money."
Do you have any data that explains the occurrences of lawsuits going after future earnings?
No. My view is based on statements I've heard from many attorneys, including one that posts regularly here and says that plaintiffs nearly always settle for the amount covered by the defendant's insurance.

At any rate, if most of your assets are in accounts protected by ERISA and/or similar state laws, declaring bankruptcy becomes a real options ince it stops all wage garnishments.
Thank you - at my past company we had at least 6 folks that had their wages garnished due to these types of events.
Just wondering if there was any data around.
TMK, most wage garnishments are due to debts and not a result of being sued.
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Call_Me_Op
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by Call_Me_Op »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:40 am
Call_Me_Op wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:53 am
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:28 am Beyond that, I'm not of the perspective that just because there is a theoretical risk of an event and you can buy insurance to cover it means that you should.
I am of that "perspective" if materialization of said event can wipe me out financially.
So do you own some physical gold and silver as insurance against the financial system imploding?
I am considering it - but I consider that much, much less likely than a frivolous lawsuit.
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brajalle
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by brajalle »

We're paying $439 for $1million. Indiana, couple, late 30's. The policy was originally around $220ish. It doubled late 2018 pretty much. I asked why - got an interesting answer about how the cost breaks down. Basically we added a 2nd house, added a 3rd vehicle, and they recently did away with uninsured/underinsured coverage on new policies because they felt like they couldn't price the risk. All of those combined for the large premium increase. Our price would be back around $220ish if we had one house, two vehicles, and dropped the grandfathered coverage. We're selling the 2nd house this spring, selling a vehicle, and keeping the grandfathered coverage, so expect it to drop to about $280-300. I believe the 1st million is more expensive than the 2nd or 3rd too. So it's possible people may be paying too much, but it's also possible you're comparing apples to oranges.
Last edited by brajalle on Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
smitcat
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by smitcat »

willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:58 am
smitcat wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:56 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:25 am
smitcat wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:09 am
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:28 am



It's possible for the courts to garnish future earnings, but it's pretty rare because plaintiffs don't want to wait that long to get their money. They and their attorneys much prefer going after assets. If you don't have many assets that they could go for, that often prevents the lawsuit from ever materializing at all.

Beyond that, I'm not of the perspective that just because there is a theoretical risk of an event and you can buy insurance to cover it means that you should.
"It's possible for the courts to garnish future earnings, but it's pretty rare because plaintiffs don't want to wait that long to get their money."
Do you have any data that explains the occurrences of lawsuits going after future earnings?
No. My view is based on statements I've heard from many attorneys, including one that posts regularly here and says that plaintiffs nearly always settle for the amount covered by the defendant's insurance.

At any rate, if most of your assets are in accounts protected by ERISA and/or similar state laws, declaring bankruptcy becomes a real options ince it stops all wage garnishments.
Thank you - at my past company we had at least 6 folks that had their wages garnished due to these types of events.
Just wondering if there was any data around.
TMK, most wage garnishments are due to debts and not a result of being sued.
I am only including lawsuits - the ones due to divorce decrees and the like I am not referring to.
feh
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by feh »

FWIW, our premium tripled when teenage son got his DL...
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by abuss368 »

feh wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:58 pm FWIW, our premium tripled when teenage son got his DL...
Appears reasonable. I am of the opinion that the overall premium cost is small and I am surprised it is even debated.
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Lovey
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by Lovey »

We pay $1100 for $1M. 3 adults (one is a college student) and 1 teen driver (permit only).
Seems high. I am going to shop around. Our coverage is with Liberty Mutual.
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by ncbill »

smitcat wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:11 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:58 am
smitcat wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:56 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:25 am
smitcat wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:09 am

"It's possible for the courts to garnish future earnings, but it's pretty rare because plaintiffs don't want to wait that long to get their money."
Do you have any data that explains the occurrences of lawsuits going after future earnings?
No. My view is based on statements I've heard from many attorneys, including one that posts regularly here and says that plaintiffs nearly always settle for the amount covered by the defendant's insurance.

At any rate, if most of your assets are in accounts protected by ERISA and/or similar state laws, declaring bankruptcy becomes a real options ince it stops all wage garnishments.
Thank you - at my past company we had at least 6 folks that had their wages garnished due to these types of events.
Just wondering if there was any data around.
TMK, most wage garnishments are due to debts and not a result of being sued.
I am only including lawsuits - the ones due to divorce decrees and the like I am not referring to.
Then why didn't they declare BK to discharge the judgments? (were those from personal injury claims?)

Security clearance an issue?
smitcat
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by smitcat »

ncbill wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:23 pm
smitcat wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:11 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:58 am
smitcat wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:56 am
willthrill81 wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:25 am

No. My view is based on statements I've heard from many attorneys, including one that posts regularly here and says that plaintiffs nearly always settle for the amount covered by the defendant's insurance.

At any rate, if most of your assets are in accounts protected by ERISA and/or similar state laws, declaring bankruptcy becomes a real options ince it stops all wage garnishments.
Thank you - at my past company we had at least 6 folks that had their wages garnished due to these types of events.
Just wondering if there was any data around.
TMK, most wage garnishments are due to debts and not a result of being sued.
I am only including lawsuits - the ones due to divorce decrees and the like I am not referring to.
Then why didn't they declare BK to discharge the judgments? (were those from personal injury claims?)

Security clearance an issue?
"Then why didn't they declare BK to discharge the judgments? (were those from personal injury claims"
I have no idea why they did or did not try for BK - I do not know anything about BK and have no idea how viable or easy it is.
At our current company with just over 40 staff we have 5 with garnishments - 4 are support related and one is from a lawsuit.
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by oldfort »

boglerdude wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:13 pm > UM/UIM is the single most important coverage you need under your umbrella policy

Wouldnt it better to have a disability policy that covers you when driving and when not
If you have kids or a stay at home spouse, your UM/UIM can apply if they get injured. It can be difficult to buy disability insurance on someone that has no income. It's possible that you'll have expenses that go beyond loss of income. If you're injured badly enough, you might need some type of assisted living or caretakers for the rest of your life. Disability benefits will typically be capped at 80% of your salary or less, so disability is unlikely to replace 100% of lost income. Disability won't pay out pain and suffering.
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Frobie
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by Frobie »

Last year we paid $269 for a $2 million policy. USAA.

Two adults, no kids, one car, one house. Nothing else worth mentioning.
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Re: Umbrella insurance cost

Post by Nicolas »

$319 per year for 3MM for two adults, clean records, no kids, one house, two vehicles. We have 500K/500K with 500K uninsured/underinsured underlying insurance. I’m adding uninsured/underinsured up to the 3MM umbrella limit for another $211 per year, based on comments upthread. So in effect we will have 3.5MM coverage for liability and the same for uninsured/underinsured.
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