My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 10688
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by ResearchMed »

tph090 wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:53 am
BarbBrooklyn wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:18 am There are a couple of choices here. Your parents are either grifters, mentally ill, or unrealistic dreamers, or some combination. Like dad is a grifter engaged in a folie a deux or Svengali-like relationship with mom.

Suspicious of medical care tells me that perhaps they've had an unpleasant brush with it in the past, as in a forced psychiatric admission.

I suspect they see you or your sister as their retirement plan. Make sure they know that the answer is no, not going to happen.

When mom is 90 and needs nursing home care, you'll help her apply for Medicaid. But as someone up-thread pointed out, without on--going medical care now, making it past 70 is probably not likely.

Let them be. I would not waste my breath "nudging" mom. If she hasn't learned that this is a "pay your own way" world by age 60, it's not going to happen because of a nudge from you.
I think I have to at least try having a one-time discussion with mom or gift her like a 2 hour consult with a fee-only financial planner to clear my conscience and then I'm done. She was in disbelief and got very upset with my dad when the eviction happened, and I don't think she can wrap her head around just how much uglier it could be if they are 75, 80, without their healthcare situation figured out, and experiencing any mental or physical decline while also dealing with no income/assets. Any consideration of them moving back to Canada would have to happen before they're too old to handle it, so I do feel like I have to at least throw it out there. I mentioned when trying to get them to realize the cost of aging that my friend is currently paying $8,000 a month for her mom's LTC. My mom replied, "You would never stick us in a place like that, would you?" I told her it was not my obligation or desire to pay X thousands per month for two extremely well-educated people who chose never to work even remotely normal hours and had no need to live basically on the margins, never carried health insurance for their kids, etc.. She asked if I would ever buy a house with a guest apartment. I said no, that's not going to happen. I don't think that made any impact though because now a few months later she's talking about adopting a dog and seems more concerned with going out with friends or to "their favorite opera" than the fact that they have visible dental neglect.

It makes me sad but I know there's nothing I can do personally or financially for people who refuse to help themselves.
Just be prepared, when the time comes, to call the local social services and tell them there is an elderly couple in serious need of assistance. Then let the system work. Or not. (It won't work if parents totally refuse to cooperate at all...)

You can't necessarily fix this, no matter how good your intentions and how hard you try.
You need to focus on yourself and *your* family.

Again, so sorry....

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
rockthisworld
Posts: 301
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:37 am

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by rockthisworld »

I am so sorry for their situation here is the game plan!
Dad 62
Mom 60
Plan to work til ages 74, 72.

He can work making 150k a year really grind. Well starting today save 25% of salary no excuses that is $3100 a month to invest.

Mom can get whatever easy job she would find meaning in even saving 10% of a minimum wage job (12 hr) is still about $200 a month. (If mom can and wants to trying to maximize her earnings would be more ideal but important to be able to get medical covered through probably moms job?)

They collectively can invest $3300 of capital every month that is good.

Market returns let’s say 2% real would give them a nest egg of 440k together! Dad and Mom will work until ages 74, 72 if possible.

If they retire 2 years earlier at 72, 70 they would only have 375k. So the longer they work the better.

Sounds like they live in California.

So they sell whatever housing they do have and buy a very cheap house maybe a nice 2 bed in a LCOL area. They could go to somewhere like Augusta GA where you can get a cheap house for like 60-100k buy it no mortgage.

Sadly with a SWR of 4.5% of 430k that would only equate to an inflation adjusted amount of $1650 a month. But somewhere in a very cheap LCOL area would help because property taxes etc would be dirt cheap with an already paid off house. At least logically it will get them just above the poverty level. But obviously show them this website they can learn a lot and I’m grateful that I found this site now but everyone says the best time to invest is today.
Vanguard or Fidelity
Don’t time the market
Low cost index funds
Let’s go grind attitude
It is possible
Show them this post!

Bogleheads do you agree with this as the best logical strategy? Again I’m sorry but they need to get out of this your love and positivity and showing them how to be financially responsible will help them bigger in the long game. Best of luck!
User avatar
JoeRetire
Posts: 5773
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by JoeRetire »

chevca wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:09 pm I get the feeling mom doesn't know much about the finances either. What good would the appt. with a planner do?
Some folks who don't understand much about finances pay others for their advice. Some of those folks learn enough to become motivated.
A good planner will learn about your overall financial condition and goals and suggest a viable path forward. Pre-existing financial knowledge isn't required.
It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | And I feel fine.
User avatar
JoeRetire
Posts: 5773
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by JoeRetire »

rockthisworld wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:20 pmHe can work making 150k a year really grind.
Mom can get whatever easy job she would find meaning in
Dad must grind, but Mom can get an easy job with meaning?
How is that fair or a good plan?

Rice and Beans. Beans and Rice.
It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | And I feel fine.
chevca
Posts: 3473
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:22 am

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by chevca »

JoeRetire wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:32 pm
chevca wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:09 pm I get the feeling mom doesn't know much about the finances either. What good would the appt. with a planner do?
Some folks who don't understand much about finances pay others for their advice. Some of those folks learn enough to become motivated.
A good planner will learn about your overall financial condition and goals and suggest a viable path forward. Pre-existing financial knowledge isn't required.
Not what I meant. More like mom doesn't know what accounts they have, or how much is in them... i.e. she wouldn't even be able to explain the situation to the planner.
User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 19431
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by VictoriaF »

JoeRetire wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:34 pm
rockthisworld wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:20 pmHe can work making 150k a year really grind.
Mom can get whatever easy job she would find meaning in
Dad must grind, but Mom can get an easy job with meaning?
How is that fair or a good plan?

Rice and Beans. Beans and Rice.
Rice and beans have too much carbs. A cheap diet is to drink olive oil and MCT oil and have an occasional egg.

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
User avatar
JoeRetire
Posts: 5773
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by JoeRetire »

chevca wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:39 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:32 pm
chevca wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:09 pm I get the feeling mom doesn't know much about the finances either. What good would the appt. with a planner do?
Some folks who don't understand much about finances pay others for their advice. Some of those folks learn enough to become motivated.
A good planner will learn about your overall financial condition and goals and suggest a viable path forward. Pre-existing financial knowledge isn't required.
Not what I meant. More like mom doesn't know what accounts they have, or how much is in them... i.e. she wouldn't even be able to explain the situation to the planner.
Ah, I see what you mean now.
Good point. But bringing in all the monthly statements could cure that. Perhaps the OP could go with them to help.
It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | And I feel fine.
User avatar
JoeRetire
Posts: 5773
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by JoeRetire »

VictoriaF wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:40 pmA cheap diet is to drink olive oil and MCT oil and have an occasional egg.
Oil and Eggs. Eggs and Oil.

Doesn't make sense to me.
It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | And I feel fine.
User avatar
Brianmcg321
Posts: 986
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:23 am

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Brianmcg321 »

JoeRetire wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:46 pm
VictoriaF wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:40 pmA cheap diet is to drink olive oil and MCT oil and have an occasional egg.
Oil and Eggs. Eggs and Oil.

Doesn't make sense to me.
Dave Ramsey can have a new slogan.
Rules to investing: | 1. Don't lose money. | 2. Don't forget rule number 1.
User avatar
JoeRetire
Posts: 5773
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by JoeRetire »

Brianmcg321 wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:54 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:46 pm
VictoriaF wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:40 pmA cheap diet is to drink olive oil and MCT oil and have an occasional egg.
Oil and Eggs. Eggs and Oil.

Doesn't make sense to me.
Dave Ramsey can have a new slogan.
No. Good oil is too expense.
It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | And I feel fine.
User avatar
4nursebee
Posts: 1569
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:56 am
Location: US

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by 4nursebee »

What would I do?

Nothing for them, too late.
Consider if/when you would help in the future. Only you can decide what is right for you peace at night.

LEARN FROM THE EXAMPLE!
Pale Blue Dot
BarbBrooklyn
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:33 am
Location: NYC

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

These folks are not going to get jobs. They are not asking for advice.

They are assuming that they will move in with their successful adult daughter when they need to and embroil her in their questionable way of living.

OP's job is to protect herself and her family. I would seek legal advice on that point and as to filial responsibility and the like.

Just to add: As to getting a financial consult, does mom KNOW ANYTHING? She sounds damaged or deficient in some way. Sounds like she has no idea what she is party to and may need to turn dad into the IRS at some point claiming innocent spouse status.
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."
donall
Posts: 928
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:45 am

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by donall »

Story of citizenship, business, etc. is too convoluted to know what is actually true. Dad sounds like a classic “ghost” who avoids a footprint. Sometimes is best to not delve into past. Help mom as best you can without getting involved.
Unladen_Swallow
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:12 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Unladen_Swallow »

VictoriaF wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:40 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:34 pm
rockthisworld wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:20 pmHe can work making 150k a year really grind.
Mom can get whatever easy job she would find meaning in
Dad must grind, but Mom can get an easy job with meaning?
How is that fair or a good plan?

Rice and Beans. Beans and Rice.
Rice and beans have too much carbs. A cheap diet is to drink olive oil and MCT oil and have an occasional egg.

Victoria
Eggs and sardines. That is cheap and good.
"I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong." - Richard Feynman
Gnirk
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:11 am
Location: Western Washington

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Gnirk »

It appears that the bottom line is that you really know very little about your parents, or how they have come to this point in their lives. Dad could have $$$ stashed somewhere, or not. He could be legal, or not. Who knows?

I would not, repeat not, become involved in their drama. Especially in light of how you were emotionally abused as a child. They’ve chosen how to live their lives, they can continue to do so on their own.
Mr. Rumples
Posts: 1068
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:16 am

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Mr. Rumples »

As mentioned above, meeting with an attorney regarding filial responsibility is important and not to be scoffed at if you live in one the 30 states that still have these on the books. Two cases, Health Care & Retirement Corp. of America v. Pittas and Eori v. Eori show how when these statutes are enforced, they can wreck the children's finances and relationships.
halfnine
Posts: 1263
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:48 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by halfnine »

Another consideration is that whatever you dad is hiding if found out might jeopardize his ability to work in law limiting his options to make good money for their future.
Unladen_Swallow
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:12 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Unladen_Swallow »

OP,

If I might be so bold - There is a saying:

"You can wake up a sleeping man. But you can't wake up a man pretending to be asleep".

You can't wake up your parents. They are not asleep.

This isn't about naive mismanagement of finances. This is about a lifelong process of living on the edge, thinking they are smarter than others, most likely paranoid, and living in a world that is entirely different to yours.

- Who is willing to pay your Dad $1000/ hour, all untraceable by the IRS? What kind of legal consulting pays this?
- Ability to earn $1000/ hour, with nothing to your name? This isn't mismanagement of funds, it sounds far worse.
- A financial planner for your mum will go nowhere. Your mum is an extension of your Dad. She is an equal partner in their plan, even if you don't think so. The decisions might be your dad's, but your mum has adopted this with her passive agreement. They are a team.


There is so much to your story that is similar to a couple I know. Except for the seemingly nefarious bits, and the ability to make $1000/hour.

Your situation is incredibly difficult, I'm so sorry. I would caution you to not get involved at all. You will regret it. You are not their priority. Refer them to social programs and official channels if they ask for help.
"I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong." - Richard Feynman
retire2022
Posts: 1544
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:10 pm
Location: NYC

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by retire2022 »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:20 pm
Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:06 pm OP,

I am missing something.

- you don't need to be a citizen to receive SS.
- if your parents filed any taxes these past 30 years showing any income, then your Dad has SS. Are you saying they didn't file taxes in 30 years?
- one does not need to pay oneself a salary if working as an LLC. It can just be income.

Your Dad being an attorney in an LLC would have gotten into many problems in 30yrs if he didn't file taxes or show income.

Have they told you they don't have SS or are you assuming?

P.S - If your Dad is working right now, he is accruing SS benefits.
I have an LLC filing as a sub-S corp that I pay myself a salary out of, and I was under the impression that Social Security employer & employee side are only taken out of any salary to an individual, NOT taken out of any pass-through profit or loss of the company. So if they haven't paid themselves any salary (which I don't believe they have since they looked confused when I referred to running payroll for myself), they wouldn't have paid into Social Security at all, I thought.
OP

I would check to see if they have any eligible benefits due to your mother or father, esp if they have social security numbers, with their permission you could register them on SSA.gov

Your father is a licensed attorney for the state, you could check the state in which he is licensed to see if it is valid. In NYS it is a public database, under the department of state.

If he is legal, and a licensed attorney he is not suppose to be here illegally, I think the story is not expressed clearly, as an attorney he is suppose to uphold laws of the state, as well as country, something is not adding up.

best
Topic Author
tph090
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:42 am

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:50 pm OP,

If I might be so bold - There is a saying:

"You can wake up a sleeping man. But you can't wake up a man pretending to be asleep".

You can't wake up your parents. They are not asleep.

This isn't about naive mismanagement of finances. This is about a lifelong process of living on the edge, thinking they are smarter than others, most likely paranoid, and living in a world that is entirely different to yours.

- Who is willing to pay your Dad $1000/ hour, all untraceable by the IRS? What kind of legal consulting pays this?
- Ability to earn $1000/ hour, with nothing to your name? This isn't mismanagement of funds, it sounds far worse.
- A financial planner for your mum will go nowhere. Your mum is an extension of your Dad. She is an equal partner in their plan, even if you don't think so. The decisions might be your dad's, but your mum has adopted this with her passive agreement. They are a team.


There is so much to your story that is similar to a couple I know. Except for the seemingly nefarious bits, and the ability to make $1000/hour.

Your situation is incredibly difficult, I'm so sorry. I would caution you to not get involved at all. You will regret it. You are not their priority. Refer them to social programs and official channels if they ask for help.
It's like a gig-expert service. My non-attorney spouse has been contacted by a similar company in the past and done 30 minute phone calls once every few months or so that pay very well and he finds it interesting because he gets to talk about a different area than he normally works in. They seek out people from all different types of backgrounds for specific client needs.
This company pays their LLC, not him personally so he doesn't provide them with an I-9 or anything like that. I'm guessing he does maybe 5 or 6 hours of this per month.
Yeah I was thinking my mom would probably not even feel like being honest with a financial planner so maybe instead pass on a book as "something I just finished reading." Something approachable like Chris Hogan's Retire Inspired or something else that touches on SS & Medicare so she at least thinks about this while she still has some healthy years left to consider getting a job.
This will be the extent of my involvement. "Thinking they are smarter than others" hits the nail on the head.
User avatar
RickBoglehead
Posts: 5608
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:10 am
Location: In a house

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by RickBoglehead »

tph090 wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:32 pm It's like a gig-expert service.
It's not a job. A handful of calls in a month, if one is lucky. I used to do these (different specialty), but they got so few and far between that I withdrew from the services I was signed up for, because I wasted too much time responding to queries that never materialized.

I said "it's not a job" to clarify that he isn't working in the legal practice to make a living, nor even trying to make a living.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
User avatar
dual
Posts: 679
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:02 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by dual »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:51 pm The money from the LLC has paid their bills over the years.
This should have been reported as income to one or both of your parents. Declaring your parents' expenses as LLC expenses is a big tax problem. If the LLC paid taxes in its income, your parents might be able to go back and file amended returns claiming the LLC income as their income and the LLC taxes paid as their taxes. This would be a mess and LLC would have had to pay social security and medicare taxes for your parents so it may owe a lot of back taxes.

You seem to want to take responsibility for your parents. Given your and your sister's poor relations with them this is not a good idea. You need to start practicing detachment and prepare to steel yourself if/when their financial problems hit the fan. When that happens, your parents can declare bankruptcy and go on welfare/medicaid. Any financial aid from you would actually hinder them so detachment seems like the best course.
User avatar
unclescrooge
Posts: 5341
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:00 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by unclescrooge »

abuss368 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:16 pm
RickBoglehead wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:23 pm
tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:14 pm I don't put it past them to sue me for filial obligation.
Sad.

Let them. Pick up the phone and report your father to Homeland Security, the IRS, and Canada's taxation authority.
Ouch. Don’t walk. Run!
Pretty much sums up my thoughts too.

If your Dad had the ability to command $1,000/hr, he should be giving you career and life advice.

Or he is lying.

Either way, something is very wrong. Maybe a mental health issue.

Personally, I have always steered clear of people who are a drag on my mental health and resources. Luckily my parents were incredible, but I have completely cut out cousins and childhood friends who's ethics were unacceptable, or who looked like they were on the path to financial suicide.
Topic Author
tph090
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:42 am

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

RickBoglehead wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:36 pm
tph090 wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:32 pm It's like a gig-expert service.
It's not a job. A handful of calls in a month, if one is lucky. I used to do these (different specialty), but they got so few and far between that I withdrew from the services I was signed up for, because I wasted too much time responding to queries that never materialized.

I said "it's not a job" to clarify that he isn't working in the legal practice to make a living, nor even trying to make a living.
Yes you are correct. Yet every time I see them my mom repeats that he makes $1,000/hour.
Reading these replies has made me realize that they are much further from any point where I could offer gentle advice and have it potentially be received than I even realized. I will heed the warnings to keep my distance.
BarbBrooklyn
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:33 am
Location: NYC

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

I would stay far away from meeting with either of your parents with any professionals. Doing so implicates you (imho) as acknowledging what they are doing.

Read that Boundaries book. ASAP. People in your situation (abusive and manipulative parents) are the folks most vulnerable to being guilted both by family AND by social services. "But don't you love (us) (them)?"

For most of us the answer is a clear cut, "yes, I love them but that doesn't mean I'm going to destroy my future to care for them".

For adult kids who were abused and neglected, there is a stronger pull to do what you THINK normal people would do in this situation. In fact, if you had a typical caring childhood, it's easier to see where parental responsibility lies. Your parents have NEVER been responsible. This is NOT your problem.

Step away from the burning building.
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."
halfnine
Posts: 1263
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:48 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by halfnine »

If one or both of your parents worked in Canada then depending on the totalization agreement between the two countries it might allow for years worked in Canada be credited towards the 10 year requirement for Social Security. OTOH, I do not believe this applies to Medicare though.

I believe it would have tax advantageous had your mother had a small salary and SS/Medicare taxes applied when withdrawing money from the LLC rather then having the whole lot of it subject to corporation tax rates prior to distribution. So I wouldn't be surprised if she does not have any contributions toward SS.

If you mother does at some point receive SS there is a good chance your father could receive 50% spousal benefits. My spouse will be eligible for this even though they have never lived in the US based on our current country of residence and also based on her at least one of her existing foreign citizenship.
User avatar
TxAg
Posts: 1702
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:09 am

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by TxAg »

RickBoglehead wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:53 pm You do nothing.

Your father is a lawyer. Knowing the legal ramifications, he let his green card expire. Knowing the legal ramifications, he didn't become a US citizen. He apparently earned good money at some point if he can charge $1,000 an hour today. Let them live their lives, you live yours.

Then you add in the emotionally abusive stuff...

Live your life, and make sure they don't negatively impact yours. If necessary, cut ties.

Well stated
User avatar
Doom&Gloom
Posts: 3584
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Doom&Gloom »

The mother of a friend of mine had a universal saying about people who made bad decisions:"They're grown."

It undoubtedly oversimplifies a lot of situations, but it sure seems applicable here.
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 10688
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by ResearchMed »

tph090 wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:48 pm
RickBoglehead wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:36 pm
tph090 wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:32 pm It's like a gig-expert service.
It's not a job. A handful of calls in a month, if one is lucky. I used to do these (different specialty), but they got so few and far between that I withdrew from the services I was signed up for, because I wasted too much time responding to queries that never materialized.

I said "it's not a job" to clarify that he isn't working in the legal practice to make a living, nor even trying to make a living.
Yes you are correct. Yet every time I see them my mom repeats that he makes $1,000/hour.
Reading these replies has made me realize that they are much further from any point where I could offer gentle advice and have it potentially be received than I even realized. I will heed the warnings to keep my distance.
Keep in mind that it might be possible that even this is not accurate.
Maybe he's never earned $1k/hour. If so, she may or may not be aware of that, or other "details". She may know there is a real problem, but not acknowledge it. Or she may genuinely "believe" him.

There is almost definitely some sort of Folie à Deux here, but just what type and how much each is involved...??? That's not your problem!
And ditto about the legalities, as long as you do NOT get involved.

But yes, do contact an attorney, especially about any possible financial responsibility you might have in that state, and how to protect yourself as much as possible in advance.

And spend some special time with *your* family now :happy

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
02nz
Posts: 5565
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:17 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by 02nz »

VictoriaF wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:12 pm A Russian sleeper cell?

Victoria
I couldn't help but thinking of one of my favorite TV series, The Americans! (On a serious note, I sympathize with the OP but have no real advice to offer here.)
Stormbringer
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:07 am

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Stormbringer »

I would be very up-front with them about what you are willing, or more likely unable and unwilling to do for them. Knowing that you are not going to be there for them may dispel any notion that they can rely on your support and focus their minds while there is still time to do something. Then, if they come to you for help in the future, you can remind them of your position on the subject and absolve yourself of any guilt.
"Compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe." - Albert Einstein
Momus
Posts: 1023
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Momus »

Green card status never expires. Card is good for 10 yrs but the status is for life. He is still of legal status. Just get a new card...
User avatar
GerryL
Posts: 2870
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:40 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by GerryL »

OP,
Is there any possibility that your mom could be suffering from cognitive decline?

Some of the things you reported her saying, for instance, imagining that you would agree to provide a place for her to live, or that your father earns $1k/hr, reminds me of how my mother talked. She moved in with me "temporarily" but never tried to find a place of her own to live. She told people that "we" wanted to buy an RV and drive around the country together, even though I repeatedly told her there was no chance of that ever happening. It was not apparent until she insisted I said or did things that I knew had never happened. We never understood for years that she was gradually losing it to Alzheimer's. She could easily fool everyone, even a social worker who was sent to evaluate her cognitive decline and later told me she "seemed fine."

If she is experiencing cognitive decline, she will not be able to negotiate between the reality you tell her and the "reality" your dad presents -- or she may be "reinterpreting" anything he may have told her.
Unladen_Swallow
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:12 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Unladen_Swallow »

Momus wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:40 pm Green card status never expires. Card is good for 10 yrs but the status is for life. He is still of legal status. Just get a new card...
Mostly correct, but not quite. Renewing it is basically their way of verifying that you are still a lawful citize. If everything is fine, you get a renewal. Or you get found out.

The Dad might be avoiding renewing the GC for this exact reason.
"I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong." - Richard Feynman
montanagirl
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:55 pm
Location: Montana

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by montanagirl »

JoeRetire wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:32 pm
chevca wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:09 pm I get the feeling mom doesn't know much about the finances either. What good would the appt. with a planner do?
Some folks who don't understand much about finances pay others for their advice. Some of those folks learn enough to become motivated.
A good planner will learn about your overall financial condition and goals and suggest a viable path forward. Pre-existing financial knowledge isn't required.
Will a planner have any interest in or ideas for people who don't have jack? Sounds more like they need a social worker to hook them up with benefits.
quantAndHold
Posts: 5028
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by quantAndHold »

tph090 wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:48 pm Reading these replies has made me realize that they are much further from any point where I could offer gentle advice and have it potentially be received than I even realized. I will heed the warnings to keep my distance.
Good thought.

After reading this entire very long thread, I think the only things actionable here are to make it clear to them that you aren’t going to provide any financial support, and to get legal advice to make sure you aren’t going to be required to provide any support in the future. There are resources out there for people in this situation, but it’s probably best if the parents seek out the resources themselves, when they’re ready.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
User avatar
sergeant
Posts: 1612
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:13 pm
Location: The Golden State

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by sergeant »

Stay away from toxic people. Your parents are toxic.
AA- 20+ Years of Expenses Fixed Income/The remainder in Equities.
User avatar
JoeRetire
Posts: 5773
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by JoeRetire »

montanagirl wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:16 pm Will a planner have any interest in or ideas for people who don't have jack?
Some will.
It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | And I feel fine.
Saving$
Posts: 1989
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:33 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Saving$ »

OP - Your decision to stay far from the situation is the correct one. You are not responsible for this. You are to be commended for being able to get out of this situation whole and sane. They have each other and they made this bed together

Some actionable considerations for you:

1. What will your (and/ or your sisters) reaction be if your mom passes and your dad is left to fend for himself? Based on your posts, perhaps your take will be he made his bed and can lay in it.

2. What will your (and/ or your sisters) reaction be if your dad passes and your mom is left to fend for herself? Based on your posts, perhaps your take will be she may need some guidance, but no financial help.

Best to prepare yourself for and have a plan for the above so you can act on the plan when/if it happens.
Startingover2019
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:24 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Startingover2019 »

student wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:31 pm I don't understand. One does not lose status by not renewing green card. https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us ... -card.html "If you did not renew your green card on time, you should do so as soon as possible. Don't panic and think that you have lost your permanent residence itself. The green card is merely evidence of your status, and letting it expire does not, in and of itself, damage that underlying status." However, "The key thing to understand, however, is that one of your obligations under U.S. immigration laws is to carry a valid green card with you at all times, if you are age 18 or older. (See § 264(e) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (I.N.A.).) If you are caught with an expired green card, or an old-style green card with no expiration date, you could be prosecuted for a misdemeanor. Having a crime on your record can lead to problems and jeopardize your immigration status, for example when you apply for U.S. citizenship."

I do not understand why he does not have work credits for SSN. Has he not filed income tax over the years.? This is very strange to me. I don't think you have all the details and it is difficult for you to help.
Glad someone actually knows what they are talking about instead of all these people accusing the man of being here illegally. A simple google search could answer that question.
Anyway, he should also qualify for Medicare and SS benefits if he contributed to the system for a few years. Unless of course he’s going something shady which is very possible.
Dottie57
Posts: 9195
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm
Location: Earth Northern Hemisphere

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Dottie57 »

JoeRetire wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:46 pm
VictoriaF wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:40 pmA cheap diet is to drink olive oil and MCT oil and have an occasional egg.
Oil and Eggs. Eggs and Oil.

Doesn't make sense to me.
Oil and eggs = mayonnaise.
Dottie57
Posts: 9195
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm
Location: Earth Northern Hemisphere

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Dottie57 »

Saving$ wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:36 pm OP - Your decision to stay far from the situation is the correct one. You are not responsible for this. You are to be commended for being able to get out of this situation whole and sane. They have each other and they made this bed together

Some actionable considerations for you:

1. What will your (and/ or your sisters) reaction be if your mom passes and your dad is left to fend for himself? Based on your posts, perhaps your take will be he made his bed and can lay in it.

2. What will your (and/ or your sisters) reaction be if your dad passes and your mom is left to fend for herself? Based on your posts, perhaps your take will be she may need some guidance, but no financial help.

Best to prepare yourself for and have a plan for the above so you can act on the plan when/if it happens.
+1

Take care of your family including yourself.
MAandMEMom
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:12 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by MAandMEMom »

This is entirely like The Glass Castle and the thing is that the parents really didn’t want jobs and they just wandered throughout their lives. The book opens with the main character grown Jeannette seeing her mom rummage through dumpsters in NYC. The story brings you back to her super unconventional childhood where her dad does a gig here and there (like your dad’s once in a while under the books gig) meanwhile her mom wallows her time away painting. These leopards did not change their spots and it seems like your parents aren’t keen on adulting either.
User avatar
arcticpineapplecorp.
Posts: 6212
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:22 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

MAandMEMom wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:40 pm This is entirely like The Glass Castle and the thing is that the parents really didn’t want jobs and they just wandered throughout their lives. The book opens with the main character grown Jeannette seeing her mom rummage through dumpsters in NYC. The story brings you back to her super unconventional childhood where her dad does a gig here and there (like your dad’s once in a while under the books gig) meanwhile her mom wallows her time away painting. These leopards did not change their spots and it seems like your parents aren’t keen on adulting either.
pretty sure the dad in glass castle wasn't making $1000 an hour...when he was working.

didn't know about glass castle until this thread. just reading the descript makes me depressed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Glass_Castle
It's "Stay" the course, not Stray the Course. Buy and Hold works. You should really try it sometime. Get a plan: www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_policy_statement
User avatar
arcticpineapplecorp.
Posts: 6212
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:22 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:43 pm
MAandMEMom wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:40 pm This is entirely like The Glass Castle and the thing is that the parents really didn’t want jobs and they just wandered throughout their lives. The book opens with the main character grown Jeannette seeing her mom rummage through dumpsters in NYC. The story brings you back to her super unconventional childhood where her dad does a gig here and there (like your dad’s once in a while under the books gig) meanwhile her mom wallows her time away painting. These leopards did not change their spots and it seems like your parents aren’t keen on adulting either.
pretty sure the dad in glass castle wasn't making $1000 an hour...when he was working.

didn't know about glass castle until this thread. just reading the descript makes me depressed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Glass_Castle
It's "Stay" the course, not Stray the Course. Buy and Hold works. You should really try it sometime. Get a plan: www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_policy_statement
BarbBrooklyn
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:33 am
Location: NYC

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

I think the bottom line is that the OP now realizes that she actually has NO factual information about her parents' financial situation. If nothing else, this board has done her a service in making that clear to her.

I think she's gotten the message that she knows nothing, that neither of her parents is sharing any facual, actionable information and that she needs to step back.
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."
User avatar
JoeRetire
Posts: 5773
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by JoeRetire »

Dottie57 wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:22 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:46 pm
VictoriaF wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:40 pmA cheap diet is to drink olive oil and MCT oil and have an occasional egg.
Oil and Eggs. Eggs and Oil.

Doesn't make sense to me.
Oil and eggs = mayonnaise.
Not much of a diet.
It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | And I feel fine.
toofache32
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:30 pm

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by toofache32 »

mptfan wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:28 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:45 pm seems to me if he can make $1000/hr then all he needs to do is work 200 hours and then they can have the condo of their dreams.
You're forgetting about taxes.
Nope, it sounds like they don't bother paying taxes.
student
Posts: 5161
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by student »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:43 pm
MAandMEMom wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:40 pm This is entirely like The Glass Castle and the thing is that the parents really didn’t want jobs and they just wandered throughout their lives. The book opens with the main character grown Jeannette seeing her mom rummage through dumpsters in NYC. The story brings you back to her super unconventional childhood where her dad does a gig here and there (like your dad’s once in a while under the books gig) meanwhile her mom wallows her time away painting. These leopards did not change their spots and it seems like your parents aren’t keen on adulting either.
pretty sure the dad in glass castle wasn't making $1000 an hour...when he was working.

didn't know about glass castle until this thread. just reading the descript makes me depressed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Glass_Castle
The movie version is available on Amazon Prime but will gone soon.
User avatar
Gray
Posts: 788
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:33 am
Location: Virginia

Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Gray »

You could setup an appointment with the IRS. Present then with a document listing what you have been told by members of your family, and what you have witnessed. Meet in person.

Allow the authorities to do their job. IRS will notify other agencies of related issues to resolve like ICE, SSA, etc.

In other words, use the authorities to initiate an intervention that will force them to come clean. Then, only then, can a corrective course be set.
Locked