My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

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BarbBrooklyn
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

It sounds like you need to sit down with which ever parent keeps the books. Or with their accountant.

They DO file taxes, right?

But in the end, not your circus.....
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."
Unladen_Swallow
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Unladen_Swallow »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:20 pm
Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:06 pm OP,

I am missing something.

- you don't need to be a citizen to receive SS.
- if your parents filed any taxes these past 30 years showing any income, then your Dad has SS. Are you saying they didn't file taxes in 30 years?
- one does not need to pay oneself a salary if working as an LLC. It can just be income.

Your Dad being an attorney in an LLC would have gotten into many problems in 30yrs if he didn't file taxes or show income.

Have they told you they don't have SS or are you assuming?

P.S - If your Dad is working right now, he is accruing SS benefits.
I have an LLC filing as a sub-S corp that I pay myself a salary out of, and I was under the impression that Social Security employer & employee side are only taken out of any salary to an individual, NOT taken out of any pass-through profit or loss of the company. So if they haven't paid themselves any salary (which I don't believe they have since they looked confused when I referred to running payroll for myself), they wouldn't have paid into Social Security at all, I thought.
One can be an LLC without filing for S corp ( in many States. In my State as well). Taxes would be on income just like a Sole Prop.

Like I said, if they filed taxes (even if an S corp) showing 0 income for 30 years, they would be audited surely. The IRS is wary of S corp folks underpaying themselves to pay less taxes.
"I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong." - Richard Feynman
Topic Author
tph090
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:45 pm
tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:20 pm
Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:06 pm OP,

I am missing something.

- you don't need to be a citizen to receive SS.
- if your parents filed any taxes these past 30 years showing any income, then your Dad has SS. Are you saying they didn't file taxes in 30 years?
- one does not need to pay oneself a salary if working as an LLC. It can just be income.

Your Dad being an attorney in an LLC would have gotten into many problems in 30yrs if he didn't file taxes or show income.

Have they told you they don't have SS or are you assuming?

P.S - If your Dad is working right now, he is accruing SS benefits.
I have an LLC filing as a sub-S corp that I pay myself a salary out of, and I was under the impression that Social Security employer & employee side are only taken out of any salary to an individual, NOT taken out of any pass-through profit or loss of the company. So if they haven't paid themselves any salary (which I don't believe they have since they looked confused when I referred to running payroll for myself), they wouldn't have paid into Social Security at all, I thought.
One can be an LLC without filing for S corp ( in many States. In my State as well). Taxes would be on income just like a Sole Prop.

Like I said, if they filed taxes (even if an S corp) showing 0 income for 30 years, they would be audited surely. The IRS is wary of S corp folks underpaying themselves to pay less taxes.
Ok. This thread has really taught me that I have no clue what their situation is and now that I've written it out it seems more screwed up than I previously realized, and I am better off not knowing. I don't believe they've paid my dad a salary at all because he is not listed on their bank account. He does not even have any credit card or debit card in his name and has to ask my mom to use her card when they're out. He's not on their apartment lease, etc.
I'm just going to assume they will be reasonably OK.
Nowizard
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Nowizard »

Whether to become involved at all is the primary question at the moment. It seems they have asked for no advice. Unasked for advice is often interpreted as criticism. Your past history suggests you do not want nor need more of their response if that is their interpretation.

Tim
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

mptfan wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:28 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:45 pm seems to me if he can make $1000/hr then all he needs to do is work 200 hours and then they can have the condo of their dreams.
You're forgetting about taxes.
yeah, i thought about that, but thought i'd keep the example simple. I mean if you want to add additional hours need to work to cover the self-employment taxes feel free to, but I was making the point that at that hourly rate it wouldn't take long to do what they say they are trying to accomplish so why all the consternation?
It's "Stay" the course, not Stray the Course. Buy and Hold works. You should really try it sometime. Get a plan: www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_policy_statement
typical.investor
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by typical.investor »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:35 pm My dad has always worked for their own LLC (also held 100% in my mom's name), except for maybe 1.5 years as an employee at a firm.

...

What would you do?
Get a statement from the social security administration showing how many credits he has.
Get a statement from the Canadian whatever agency showing if he has paid in at all.

Ask the social security administration about qualifying under a totalization agreement.

Even if he qualifies in neither place, he may qualify in both by combining the credits. This mean Canadian credit can be used to establish US eligibility and vice versa. Of course, payments received from each system will be based on amounts paid in to that system only and so of course could be very low. However, it is possible that he qualifies for a minimum payment.
bberris
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by bberris »

mptfan wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:28 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:45 pm seems to me if he can make $1000/hr then all he needs to do is work 200 hours and then they can have the condo of their dreams.
You're forgetting about taxes.
Not the only one.
Lafder
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Lafder »

As I read your story, I was reminded of a book called The Glass Castle. Basically it is a woman's story of growing up with her dysfunctional parents.

There is a movie that captures some of it, but the book is better, and it grabbed my interest from the first few pages. It may be worth reading.

As others are saying, do not solve a problem you are not even being asked to help with. They have made it thus far on their own.

lafder
Unladen_Swallow
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Unladen_Swallow »

OP,

If your parents have lives here for 30 years, have they never rented, loaned a car, had a mortgage, or applied for a credit card?
All these needed income/revenue back up.


I cannot fathom anyone being clever enough to file 0 income for 30 years, never be audited by IRS, never have applied for credit, beat the system, but not savvy enough to have some money saved.

Unscientific guesses follow:

I am sure your dad has Social Security. And your mum can get spousal support.

Your dad might be avoiding applying for these benefits because of fear of not having his legal status/green card in order and getting in trouble. But that is moot I think. They can move back to Canada and still receive these benefits. But your Dad might have decided otherwise.

If they are earning money now, are they still filing zero income for taxes?

I think there a lot of information you are missing.


Finally - a lot of your story does not seem unknown to me, unfortunately. Parts of it are familiar. You can't fix anything.
"I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong." - Richard Feynman
aristotelian
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by aristotelian »

Would they be eligible for any benefits in Canada?

Could they work at Walmart for a few years or draw salaries from the LLC so they qualify for SS? The first bend point is pretty easy to hit and at Age 60 they should have quite a few years left.
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celia
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by celia »

halfnine wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:28 pm I am going to posit that your parents have been living outside the law. It probably started small but overtime it has snowballed into the position they are in now and there is no going back. They are probably trying to lay low and hopefully avoid Dad getting kicked out of the country or the IRS finding out about their previous business arrangements. Either would likely be catastrophic for them. As such they won't be seeking external help outside of the family.
By the time I read this post, I had the same idea. There are just too many unlikelihoods, that something very strange is going on. I'm guessing they are hiding from someone or something, but that is just a wild guess. What they are telling you may just be to throw you off track.
tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:03 pm Ok. This thread has really taught me that I have no clue what their situation is and now that I've written it out it seems more screwed up than I previously realized, and I am better off not knowing. I don't believe they've paid my dad a salary at all because he is not listed on their bank account. He does not even have any credit card or debit card in his name and has to ask my mom to use her card when they're out. He's not on their apartment lease, etc.
But there are some simple things you can do to confirm some of the things they've told you. Use google, to:
* check lawyer licenses at the licensing part of their state's web site
* google each parent's names, not just for what they've told you but to see if they also have other aliases
* google name of LLC and see if it is registered with their state
* google mom's brother's name and local probate courts to see if your mom has really sued her brother (if it is public record, try to get a copy of the court transcript)
* google lists of graduates for the school(s) each of them attended
* search for vital records and other info at familysearch.org (registering is free and they don't try to sell you anything)

If your dad's name is B.D. Cooper, your parents are probably running out of money! (<-- not likely him, since your dad would have been around 15 at that time, but that's an example of someone who needs to stay in hiding)

I'm just going to assume they will be reasonably OK.
An excellent path to take! I would also keep my distance from them and what they are hiding.
manatee2005
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by manatee2005 »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:03 pm
Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:45 pm
tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:20 pm
Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:06 pm OP,

I am missing something.

- you don't need to be a citizen to receive SS.
- if your parents filed any taxes these past 30 years showing any income, then your Dad has SS. Are you saying they didn't file taxes in 30 years?
- one does not need to pay oneself a salary if working as an LLC. It can just be income.

Your Dad being an attorney in an LLC would have gotten into many problems in 30yrs if he didn't file taxes or show income.

Have they told you they don't have SS or are you assuming?

P.S - If your Dad is working right now, he is accruing SS benefits.
I have an LLC filing as a sub-S corp that I pay myself a salary out of, and I was under the impression that Social Security employer & employee side are only taken out of any salary to an individual, NOT taken out of any pass-through profit or loss of the company. So if they haven't paid themselves any salary (which I don't believe they have since they looked confused when I referred to running payroll for myself), they wouldn't have paid into Social Security at all, I thought.
One can be an LLC without filing for S corp ( in many States. In my State as well). Taxes would be on income just like a Sole Prop.

Like I said, if they filed taxes (even if an S corp) showing 0 income for 30 years, they would be audited surely. The IRS is wary of S corp folks underpaying themselves to pay less taxes.
Ok. This thread has really taught me that I have no clue what their situation is and now that I've written it out it seems more screwed up than I previously realized, and I am better off not knowing. I don't believe they've paid my dad a salary at all because he is not listed on their bank account. He does not even have any credit card or debit card in his name and has to ask my mom to use her card when they're out. He's not on their apartment lease, etc.
I'm just going to assume they will be reasonably OK.
Are you sure your dad is not on the run from the law?
And I’m not only talking about ICE.
mnnice
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by mnnice »

Lafder wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:55 pm As I read your story, I was reminded of a book called The Glass Castle. Basically it is a woman's story of growing up with her dysfunctional parents.

There is a movie that captures some of it, but the book is better, and it grabbed my interest from the first few pages. It may be worth reading.

As others are saying, do not solve a problem you are not even being asked to help with. They have made it thus far on their own.

lafder
I was going to say the same thing regarding Glass Castle.

If your mom is not Medicare eligible she will be eligible for either Medicaid or a plan an ACA plan but in reality they have not been forthcoming enough with their situation that no one knows.
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tph090
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:29 pm OP,

If your parents have lives here for 30 years, have they never rented, loaned a car, had a mortgage, or applied for a credit card?
All these needed income/revenue back up.


I cannot fathom anyone being clever enough to file 0 income for 30 years, never be audited by IRS, never have applied for credit, beat the system, but not savvy enough to have some money saved.

Unscientific guesses follow:

I am sure your dad has Social Security. And your mum can get spousal support.

Your dad might be avoiding applying for these benefits because of fear of not having his legal status/green card in order and getting in trouble. But that is moot I think. They can move back to Canada and still receive these benefits. But your Dad might have decided otherwise.

If they are earning money now, are they still filing zero income for taxes?

I think there a lot of information you are missing.


Finally - a lot of your story does not seem unknown to me, unfortunately. Parts of it are familiar. You can't fix anything.
No they have never had a mortgage in the US as they have never owned a home in US or rented a car. I don't know if they currently have a credit card, but I know they had BillMeLater when I was a teenager because they called the house a couple times. I don't know how much of a background check a company like that would've been doing during the easy loan days of 2005ish.
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tph090
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

celia wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:42 pm
halfnine wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:28 pm I am going to posit that your parents have been living outside the law. It probably started small but overtime it has snowballed into the position they are in now and there is no going back. They are probably trying to lay low and hopefully avoid Dad getting kicked out of the country or the IRS finding out about their previous business arrangements. Either would likely be catastrophic for them. As such they won't be seeking external help outside of the family.
By the time I read this post, I had the same idea. There are just too many unlikelihoods, that something very strange is going on. I'm guessing they are hiding from someone or something, but that is just a wild guess. What they are telling you may just be to throw you off track.
tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:03 pm Ok. This thread has really taught me that I have no clue what their situation is and now that I've written it out it seems more screwed up than I previously realized, and I am better off not knowing. I don't believe they've paid my dad a salary at all because he is not listed on their bank account. He does not even have any credit card or debit card in his name and has to ask my mom to use her card when they're out. He's not on their apartment lease, etc.
But there are some simple things you can do to confirm some of the things they've told you. Use google, to:
* check lawyer licenses at the licensing part of their state's web site
* google each parent's names, not just for what they've told you but to see if they also have other aliases
* google name of LLC and see if it is registered with their state
* google mom's brother's name and local probate courts to see if your mom has really sued her brother (if it is public record, try to get a copy of the court transcript)
* google lists of graduates for the school(s) each of them attended
* search for vital records and other info at familysearch.org (registering is free and they don't try to sell you anything)

If your dad's name is B.D. Cooper, your parents are probably running out of money! (<-- not likely him, since your dad would have been around 15 at that time, but that's an example of someone who needs to stay in hiding)

I'm just going to assume they will be reasonably OK.
An excellent path to take! I would also keep my distance from them and what they are hiding.
I checked some of this a while ago. Yes the LLC exists and yes she really did sue her brother. She lost because of statute of limitations, and they are appealing to a federal court. I'm not actually sure if my dad still has his law license because it said she filed pro se (representing herself with him obviously writing the documents). Yes they are definitely not forthcoming. I only found out about the eviction a couple years ago because my mom called me out of the blue asking for me to help move furniture and to store it at my house. She said it had to be out of their house because of the "mold issue" and I thought it sounded weird so I looked up the county site and sure enough they had a notice to vacate. :(
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Watty
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Watty »

One thing to be prepared for is that if they end up in a hospital or something then the state government may come to you to try to guilt you into paying for their care even though you have no legal obligation to.

I know someone whose father abandoned a wife with a couple of young kids and while they knew he left on his own ne basically disappeared and they heard nothing from him for decades. Eventually he ended up in a hospice when he was elderly and the state he was in found his kids and put pressure on them to pay for his care. As bitter as he was about his dad he was equally upset with the state for putting all the pressure on him to pay for his care.

You also need to be real careful about signing anything.

People have signed paperwork in emergency rooms when a relative was being admitted only to figure out later that they were taking on huge medical bills for their care.
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AerialWombat
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by AerialWombat »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:03 pm Ok. This thread has really taught me that I have no clue what their situation is and now that I've written it out it seems more screwed up than I previously realized, and I am better off not knowing. I don't believe they've paid my dad a salary at all because he is not listed on their bank account.
Based on everything you’ve written in this thread, you are describing a classic tax evasion scheme. There is the potential there for many years in federal prison. I would suggest having absolutely nothing to do with this situation.
Last edited by AerialWombat on Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tph090
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

manatee2005 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:47 pm
tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:03 pm
Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:45 pm
tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:20 pm
Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:06 pm OP,

I am missing something.

- you don't need to be a citizen to receive SS.
- if your parents filed any taxes these past 30 years showing any income, then your Dad has SS. Are you saying they didn't file taxes in 30 years?
- one does not need to pay oneself a salary if working as an LLC. It can just be income.

Your Dad being an attorney in an LLC would have gotten into many problems in 30yrs if he didn't file taxes or show income.

Have they told you they don't have SS or are you assuming?

P.S - If your Dad is working right now, he is accruing SS benefits.
I have an LLC filing as a sub-S corp that I pay myself a salary out of, and I was under the impression that Social Security employer & employee side are only taken out of any salary to an individual, NOT taken out of any pass-through profit or loss of the company. So if they haven't paid themselves any salary (which I don't believe they have since they looked confused when I referred to running payroll for myself), they wouldn't have paid into Social Security at all, I thought.
One can be an LLC without filing for S corp ( in many States. In my State as well). Taxes would be on income just like a Sole Prop.

Like I said, if they filed taxes (even if an S corp) showing 0 income for 30 years, they would be audited surely. The IRS is wary of S corp folks underpaying themselves to pay less taxes.
Ok. This thread has really taught me that I have no clue what their situation is and now that I've written it out it seems more screwed up than I previously realized, and I am better off not knowing. I don't believe they've paid my dad a salary at all because he is not listed on their bank account. He does not even have any credit card or debit card in his name and has to ask my mom to use her card when they're out. He's not on their apartment lease, etc.
I'm just going to assume they will be reasonably OK.
Are you sure your dad is not on the run from the law?
And I’m not only talking about ICE.
I don't know. He had a hugely successful business (verified) in Canada that went bankrupt, he randomly left to go to law school in the US, and my mom had no choice but to give everything over to creditors. My sister told me he told her that he "opened an account in the Bahamas" and that he would go there to take money out and that they had been mostly living off that for years until it ran out. I don't know if this is just part of the kooky family mythology.
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Watty
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Watty »

One more thought.

Be sure to put credit freezes on your credit reports including your spouses and any kids.

People have been known to do identity theft using relatives IDs.
Unladen_Swallow
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Unladen_Swallow »

tph090 wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:03 am No they have never had a mortgage in the US as they have never owned a home in US or rented a car. I don't know if they currently have a credit card, but I know they had BillMeLater when I was a teenager because they called the house a couple times. I don't know how much of a background check a company like that would've been doing during the easy loan days of 2005ish.
I meant, have they never rented an apartment? Or bought a car on loan? They had to stay somewhere, either rent or own. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

Having an LLC is very official. Lots of paper trail. An LLC means a bank account in the name of LLC. Payments would be to the LLC. There is no point of an LLC if you are not doing jobs under it. So you see....taxes would show LLC revenue and expenses. A zero salary for 30 years would be audited.

Not paying taxes for 30 years while making a living is not a random skill for a couple (maybe your Dad is not a random person.)

This entire issue seems to stem from the expired greencard. Not traveling out of the country, not claiming social security etc.

ETA : I would advice to wish them well, but protect yourself and and don't get involved. Reading your other responses makes me think this is not a case of poorly managed finances, but lots of deliberate evasive deals. Your Dad shows that he has functioned with full knowledge, without quite the responsibility towards the family. I don't see it changing.
Last edited by Unladen_Swallow on Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong." - Richard Feynman
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beyou
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by beyou »

You can’t be a parent to your parents.
Mine go on nice vacations then cry poverty to me.
They buy individual stocks, not index funds.

I keep my mouth shut, their decisions.
I am a parent and husband, I need to take care of those I brought into the world and hopefully teach them (until they are free to make same mistakes as their grandparents ;-) )
fru-gal
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by fru-gal »

I haven't read all the replies, but it seems to me you do not have enough dependable information from your parents to make any suggestions or plans.

They also seem like very unpleasant people. I understand that you love them despite that, but they have run their own lives for a long time, doing God knows what legally or illegally, so I would just stand back.

The only suggestion I might make is perhaps your Mom is eligible for insurance under Obamacare.
quantAndHold
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by quantAndHold »

This doesn’t really sound like a financial problem, at least for you. It’s more of a family problem. Whatever the story is with them, they’re not asking for help, and I’m sure they’ll muddle through just as they always have. As for the “can we buy a condo” question, that would require them to sign legal documents, so I doubt they’re serious, but if they can pull together $200k, then buying a condo is probably not the worst way for them to spend it.

The only thing I would say that’s actually personal and actionable for you is that you might want a lawyer to make sure that nobody can come after any of your assets for any of their debts.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
manatee2005
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by manatee2005 »

tph090 wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:17 am
manatee2005 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:47 pm
tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:03 pm
Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:45 pm
tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:20 pm

I have an LLC filing as a sub-S corp that I pay myself a salary out of, and I was under the impression that Social Security employer & employee side are only taken out of any salary to an individual, NOT taken out of any pass-through profit or loss of the company. So if they haven't paid themselves any salary (which I don't believe they have since they looked confused when I referred to running payroll for myself), they wouldn't have paid into Social Security at all, I thought.
One can be an LLC without filing for S corp ( in many States. In my State as well). Taxes would be on income just like a Sole Prop.

Like I said, if they filed taxes (even if an S corp) showing 0 income for 30 years, they would be audited surely. The IRS is wary of S corp folks underpaying themselves to pay less taxes.
Ok. This thread has really taught me that I have no clue what their situation is and now that I've written it out it seems more screwed up than I previously realized, and I am better off not knowing. I don't believe they've paid my dad a salary at all because he is not listed on their bank account. He does not even have any credit card or debit card in his name and has to ask my mom to use her card when they're out. He's not on their apartment lease, etc.
I'm just going to assume they will be reasonably OK.
Are you sure your dad is not on the run from the law?
And I’m not only talking about ICE.
I don't know. He had a hugely successful business (verified) in Canada that went bankrupt, he randomly left to go to law school in the US, and my mom had no choice but to give everything over to creditors. My sister told me he told her that he "opened an account in the Bahamas" and that he would go there to take money out and that they had been mostly living off that for years until it ran out. I don't know if this is just part of the kooky family mythology.
Sounds like tax evasion.
chalet
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by chalet »

get credit reports on both of them. and yourself.

I also think freezing your credit is a good idea.

it's not too late for both of them to work long enough to qualify for medicare and social security.
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Gray
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Gray »

chalet wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:15 am get credit reports on both of them. and yourself.

I also think freezing your credit is a good idea.

it's not too late for both of them to work long enough to qualify for medicare and social security.
Pulling someone else’s credit report without a permissible purpose is illegal. Freezing your credit reports at the three bureaus is a great idea.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

RickBoglehead wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:53 pm You do nothing.

Your father is a lawyer. Knowing the legal ramifications, he let his green card expire. Knowing the legal ramifications, he didn't become a US citizen. He apparently earned good money at some point if he can charge $1,000 an hour today. Let them live their lives, you live yours.

Then you add in the emotionally abusive stuff...

Live your life, and make sure they don't negatively impact yours. If necessary, cut ties.
+1
There's a book called Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud. Very useful reading for adult children of abusive parents.
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EthanAllen
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by EthanAllen »

I can’t believe I’m the first person commenting on this, but did you say you had to delay applying to college cause they didn’t even have your birth/citizenship docs? If that (and not helping your sister and not showing up to her wedding) didn’t embarrass them into realizing they needed to get their act together, highly doubtful anything you say at this point will.

They are either in a tough situation already beyond recovery, or nothing you say will likely help them get to their recovery.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by boomer_techie »

manatee2005 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:47 pm Are you sure your dad is not on the run from the law?
And I’m not only talking about ICE.
Could he be on the run from some other organization, such as the ... mob? Or maybe he works for them?
EdNorton
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by EdNorton »

Tell your Dad to lower his rate to $50/hour, sounds like he may have priced himself out of the market. :sharebeer
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by goblue100 »

Does your Mom have any work credits? Getting 10 years of credits would be a priority, if she can.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Valuethinker »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:46 pm
Gray wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:35 pm What taxation obligations does your father have to Canada as a citizen living abroad?

If they are potentially in an illegal taxation situation, how would entangling your finances put you at risk?

Given your history, why would you consider helping without full disclosure from them and before consulting an attorney with international tax law expertise?
I didn't even think of that, tax obligatons of a Canadian citizen living abroad.

I would not entangle my finances with them because they were emotionally abusive growing up and I'm not willing to sacrifice parts of my future for them. When they were getting evicted my mom asked if they could move in with my family and I said no because they have been crazy to my husband in the past and he doesn't speak to them. I don't know where they went after that, I didn't speak to them for a couple months.
Don't worry about Canadian tax. Canada does not levy tax on non resident citizens.

If your father paid inti Canada pension Plan CPP or Quebec PP at all he will have some eligibility. Would probably only be a few hundred a year but if he did his legal articles in Canada say. They can enquire via the website. He will need his Social Insurance Number (if he ever worked in Canada he had one, even if only summer job).

Financial Wisdom Forum is a Canadian equivalent forum which is linked to from here.

They should be eligible for whatever the basic old age pension is if resident in Canada. It is not much but it is something.

If they live in Canada more than 6 months of the year they are automatically eligible for free provincial healthcare.

However getting residence for your non citizen Canadian mother is not automatic would need to check.

The best you can do for them is find out what would be available for them if they moved back to Canada. Greater Toronto Area and Greater Vancouver have insane housing shortages and prices so they would be better off somewhere smaller. Waterloo ONT or Windsor or London or retirement communities around there. Ontario has a decent intercity coach system so you can usually get to Toronto if you are desperate. Eastern Ontario is both poorer and cheaper generally.

If they instead live on in the USA I don't know what would be available to them.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by bob60014 »

manatee2005 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:47 pm Are you sure your dad is not on the run from the law?
And I’m not only talking about ICE.
Or witness protection. Something isn't adding up, IMHO.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Tdubs »

chalet wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:15 am get credit reports on both of them. and yourself.

I also think freezing your credit is a good idea.

it's not too late for both of them to work long enough to qualify for medicare and social security.
That is the one thing I'd do. Get your mother to find a job and establish a work history enough for SSA.
Razasharpz
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Razasharpz »

They won't make it past 70 and it's not your fault.
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tph090
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

goblue100 wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:15 am Does your Mom have any work credits? Getting 10 years of credits would be a priority, if she can.
She worked for maybe 2 years part-time during college. Yes I will try gently introducing the idea that she is probably not currently eligible for SSI/Medicare. I don't think it's ever occurred to her that she wouldn't qualify, or how crucial Medicare is.
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tph090
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

Valuethinker wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:31 am
tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:46 pm
Gray wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:35 pm What taxation obligations does your father have to Canada as a citizen living abroad?

If they are potentially in an illegal taxation situation, how would entangling your finances put you at risk?

Given your history, why would you consider helping without full disclosure from them and before consulting an attorney with international tax law expertise?
I didn't even think of that, tax obligatons of a Canadian citizen living abroad.

I would not entangle my finances with them because they were emotionally abusive growing up and I'm not willing to sacrifice parts of my future for them. When they were getting evicted my mom asked if they could move in with my family and I said no because they have been crazy to my husband in the past and he doesn't speak to them. I don't know where they went after that, I didn't speak to them for a couple months.
Don't worry about Canadian tax. Canada does not levy tax on non resident citizens.

If your father paid inti Canada pension Plan CPP or Quebec PP at all he will have some eligibility. Would probably only be a few hundred a year but if he did his legal articles in Canada say. They can enquire via the website. He will need his Social Insurance Number (if he ever worked in Canada he had one, even if only summer job).

Financial Wisdom Forum is a Canadian equivalent forum which is linked to from here.

They should be eligible for whatever the basic old age pension is if resident in Canada. It is not much but it is something.

If they live in Canada more than 6 months of the year they are automatically eligible for free provincial healthcare.

However getting residence for your non citizen Canadian mother is not automatic would need to check.

The best you can do for them is find out what would be available for them if they moved back to Canada. Greater Toronto Area and Greater Vancouver have insane housing shortages and prices so they would be better off somewhere smaller. Waterloo ONT or Windsor or London or retirement communities around there. Ontario has a decent intercity coach system so you can usually get to Toronto if you are desperate. Eastern Ontario is both poorer and cheaper generally.

If they instead live on in the USA I don't know what would be available to them.
I think my mom would have a breakdown if they had to move back to Canada after 30 years and not know anyone. When I bring up Medicare eligibility I will try to gently instill the idea that if she doesn't secure Medicare eligibility then Canada may be their only option for healthcare when they are 80, etc. They are suspicious of the healthcare system and plan to never get ill. Canada requires spousal immigration sponsors to provide evidence of financial support. I don't know if they would be willing or able to show this for my dad. I will try to give my mom a one-time nudge that this may be the only option so at least they can plan the steps they would need to meet Canadian eligibility. I don't think she deserves to go without healthcare when she's 90, but I won't say it more than once.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by montanagirl »

vitaflo wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:55 pm
tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:35 pm They don't pay salaries out of the LLC, so they have no SS work credits from that.
Something doesn't add up here. Your dad has had his own biz for 30 years but never paid himself a salary? What's the tax classification of the biz? With your mom not working I'm failing to understand how they receive money to pay for their daily lives without some form of income, unless they're also doing some very weird tax stuff that would just add to the plethora of problems they're dealing with.
Even if there were no salaries per se there must have been economic profit, with SE tax due on that. Or they took bogus expense deductions leaving no earnings....or maybe didn't file at all.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

There are a couple of choices here. Your parents are either grifters, mentally ill, or unrealistic dreamers, or some combination. Like dad is a grifter engaged in a folie a deux or Svengali-like relationship with mom.

Suspicious of medical care tells me that perhaps they've had an unpleasant brush with it in the past, as in a forced psychiatric admission.

I suspect they see you or your sister as their retirement plan. Make sure they know that the answer is no, not going to happen.

When mom is 90 and needs nursing home care, you'll help her apply for Medicaid. But as someone up-thread pointed out, without on--going medical care now, making it past 70 is probably not likely.

Let them be. I would not waste my breath "nudging" mom. If she hasn't learned that this is a "pay your own way" world by age 60, it's not going to happen because of a nudge from you.
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edge
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by edge »

Stay away from your parents.
getthatmarshmallow
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by getthatmarshmallow »

Green cards don't expire. The physical card and biometrics need to be updated, but once someone's a permanent resident, unless they abandon residency they don't lose it. It's a matter of filling out a form, a fee, and a picture. One needs to be in compliance but there's no penalty for failing to have updated it. They're either confused, or he overstayed a different kind of visa.

But none of this is adding up. Canadian permanent residents with jobs pay into Social Security. If the issue is that all the money is in the LLC and they were underreporting income, then maybe they don't have credits for SS, but if the money is in the company they're not at *nothing* for retirement. If they can't get to that money because he doesn't want to sell or because of back taxes, that's a separate issue. Either way I think all you can do is offer advice and back away.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by VictoriaF »

Have you talked with your sister about this situation? Are her experiences, opinions, and guesses similar to yours?

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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by terran »

tph090 wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:56 am
goblue100 wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:15 am Does your Mom have any work credits? Getting 10 years of credits would be a priority, if she can.
She worked for maybe 2 years part-time during college. Yes I will try gently introducing the idea that she is probably not currently eligible for SSI/Medicare. I don't think it's ever occurred to her that she wouldn't qualify, or how crucial Medicare is.
She actually probably will qualify for SSI, which stands for Supplemental Security Income, once she's 65 if she has under $2000 of countable assets. The benefit is around $750/month. She'll also qualify for Medicaid.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by JoeRetire »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:35 pmI don't know where to start or whether to even say anything. My mom trusts my dad, and my dad seems broken. Both of them were quite emotionally abusive to me growing up, and I do not feel comfortable with the prospect of them ever living with me. What would you do?
I would prepare myself emotionally to be completely apart from them at some point.

You can't force your parent to be smart with their finances. You get to choose how much you wish to help them financially, if at all.

Down the road, they will need to understand their options regarding Medicaid and other welfare programs. You can decide to help them, or not.
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tph090
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

BarbBrooklyn wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:18 am There are a couple of choices here. Your parents are either grifters, mentally ill, or unrealistic dreamers, or some combination. Like dad is a grifter engaged in a folie a deux or Svengali-like relationship with mom.

Suspicious of medical care tells me that perhaps they've had an unpleasant brush with it in the past, as in a forced psychiatric admission.

I suspect they see you or your sister as their retirement plan. Make sure they know that the answer is no, not going to happen.

When mom is 90 and needs nursing home care, you'll help her apply for Medicaid. But as someone up-thread pointed out, without on--going medical care now, making it past 70 is probably not likely.

Let them be. I would not waste my breath "nudging" mom. If she hasn't learned that this is a "pay your own way" world by age 60, it's not going to happen because of a nudge from you.
I think I have to at least try having a one-time discussion with mom or gift her like a 2 hour consult with a fee-only financial planner to clear my conscience and then I'm done. She was in disbelief and got very upset with my dad when the eviction happened, and I don't think she can wrap her head around just how much uglier it could be if they are 75, 80, without their healthcare situation figured out, and experiencing any mental or physical decline while also dealing with no income/assets. Any consideration of them moving back to Canada would have to happen before they're too old to handle it, so I do feel like I have to at least throw it out there. I mentioned when trying to get them to realize the cost of aging that my friend is currently paying $8,000 a month for her mom's LTC. My mom replied, "You would never stick us in a place like that, would you?" I told her it was not my obligation or desire to pay X thousands per month for two extremely well-educated people who chose never to work even remotely normal hours and had no need to live basically on the margins, never carried health insurance for their kids, etc.. She asked if I would ever buy a house with a guest apartment. I said no, that's not going to happen. I don't think that made any impact though because now a few months later she's talking about adopting a dog and seems more concerned with going out with friends or to "their favorite opera" than the fact that they have visible dental neglect.

It makes me sad but I know there's nothing I can do personally or financially for people who refuse to help themselves.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by chevca »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:35 pm What would you do?
I'd wait until there's a problem to tackle before trying to tackle it.

Leave 'em be.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

tph090 wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:53 am
BarbBrooklyn wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:18 am There are a couple of choices here. Your parents are either grifters, mentally ill, or unrealistic dreamers, or some combination. Like dad is a grifter engaged in a folie a deux or Svengali-like relationship with mom.

Suspicious of medical care tells me that perhaps they've had an unpleasant brush with it in the past, as in a forced psychiatric admission.

I suspect they see you or your sister as their retirement plan. Make sure they know that the answer is no, not going to happen.

When mom is 90 and needs nursing home care, you'll help her apply for Medicaid. But as someone up-thread pointed out, without on--going medical care now, making it past 70 is probably not likely.

Let them be. I would not waste my breath "nudging" mom. If she hasn't learned that this is a "pay your own way" world by age 60, it's not going to happen because of a nudge from you.
I think I have to at least try having a one-time discussion with mom or gift her like a 2 hour consult with a fee-only financial planner to clear my conscience and then I'm done. She was in disbelief and got very upset with my dad when the eviction happened, and I don't think she can wrap her head around just how much uglier it could be if they are 75, 80, without their healthcare situation figured out, and experiencing any mental or physical decline while also dealing with no income/assets. Any consideration of them moving back to Canada would have to happen before they're too old to handle it, so I do feel like I have to at least throw it out there. I mentioned when trying to get them to realize the cost of aging that my friend is currently paying $8,000 a month for her mom's LTC. My mom replied, "You would never stick us in a place like that, would you?" I told her it was not my obligation or desire to pay X thousands per month for two extremely well-educated people who chose never to work even remotely normal hours and had no need to live basically on the margins, never carried health insurance for their kids, etc.. She asked if I would ever buy a house with a guest apartment. I said no, that's not going to happen. I don't think that made any impact though because now a few months later she's talking about adopting a dog and seems more concerned with going out with friends or to "their favorite opera" than the fact that they have visible dental neglect.

It makes me sad but I know there's nothing I can do personally or financially for people who refuse to help themselves.
Oh dear. Yes, you are the retirement plan.

Gifting her a session with a financial planner is a good "arms length" way of batting the ball back into mom's court.

I feel a "duty to warn" here that you should not, under any circumstances, agree to become their power of attorney. There is a much better chance of them getting help when they need it if mom and/or becomes a ward of the state when they can no longer care for themselves.

Something tells me that your dad could leverage a POA that you hold into a multi-year law suit that would drain you dry.
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."
chevca
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by chevca »

I get the feeling mom doesn't know much about the finances either. What good would the appt. with a planner do?
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by manatee2005 »

boomer_techie wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:42 am
manatee2005 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:47 pm Are you sure your dad is not on the run from the law?
And I’m not only talking about ICE.
Could he be on the run from some other organization, such as the ... mob? Or maybe he works for them?
Maybe cartels. Maybe that’s why he didn’t want to go to Mexico.
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VictoriaF
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by VictoriaF »

manatee2005 wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:11 pm
boomer_techie wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:42 am
manatee2005 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:47 pm Are you sure your dad is not on the run from the law?
And I’m not only talking about ICE.
Could he be on the run from some other organization, such as the ... mob? Or maybe he works for them?
Maybe cartels. Maybe that’s why he didn’t want to go to Mexico.
A Russian sleeper cell?

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