My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

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tph090
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My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

I am wondering if any other Bogleheads have been in / been related to someone in this situation, and what to bring up potentially with my parents, if my understanding of the situation is correct from a SS perspective, or if there is any reasonable resolution possible at this point. My dad is 62 and mom is 60. My mom is a US-born full citizen, but my father is from Canada and let his green card expire years ago. He never pursued US citizenship for some reason even though he has been here for 30 years. Their bank accounts, etc. have always been in my mother's name. My dad is a licensed attorney but my mother has never worked. My dad has always worked for their own LLC (also held 100% in my mom's name), except for maybe 1.5 years as an employee at a firm. They have struggled a lot financially over the years and have been evicted about 3 years ago. They seem to be doing OK now as far as bills go, but my dad works sporadically doing "outsourced expert"-type consultations at $1,000 per hour, but doesn't work anywhere near full-time hours doing this. He hates working for someone else and will never do that again.

Last weekend my mother mentioned that they "want to start saving for a $200,000 condo." They don't own a home or a car, they have 0 investment accounts other than some small CDs, and to my understanding they will not receive Social Security or Medicare because neither has enough work credits and my dad is not a US citizen. They don't pay salaries out of the LLC, so they have no SS work credits from that.

They have no health insurance and when my dad had a prostate issue come up my mother said they were "looking into holistic treatments." I make good money, I am planning for my own future and my family's future, but I absolutely cannot afford to replace SS & Medicare for 2 people. The fact that my mom has not even earned Medicare coverage is terrifying. When I tried to talk to her about health insurance she starts going on about how they're going vegan. She was supposed to inherit almost $1 M from her father when he died 35 years ago but her brother swindled her out of it. She began suing him with my father as the attorney 7 years ago so they have been escalating this lawsuit through the court system for 7 years.

I don't know where to start or whether to even say anything. My mom trusts my dad, and my dad seems broken. Both of them were quite emotionally abusive to me growing up, and I do not feel comfortable with the prospect of them ever living with me. What would you do?
minimalistmarc
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by minimalistmarc »

I don’t think you should do anything.

Giving them any money would be like pouring water into a bucket with a hole in the bottom
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by niceguy7376 »

Hi OP,
I dont know where to start.
So are you telling that you are Dad is here in US illegally right now without a proper visa?
What exactly happened to all the money of the LLC if they never took salaries?
Are you the only kid to them?
I totally understand that if they were abusive (in which ever way) to you while growing up, you dont want to have them with you.

At this juncture, with all the family dynamics, I would stay away from them as much as possible in terms of help initiation.
Emg
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Emg »

Just to consider all options . . . Can they move back to Canada? Would your dad not be eligible for benefits there? I realize this may not be first or second choice but a little research might be worthwhile.
Katietsu
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Katietsu »

I do not have any good answers. I wonder how much of the full story that you have.

It seems the the primary issue is that your Dad is here illegally. It also seems that they have somehow reported almost no wage income for either of them ever. So the LLC is reporting all the gross receipts and not reporting any wages paid to anyone for anything? I do not understand how your father is even legal to practice law but then I am not a lawyer.

Your mother could be eligible for Medicaid and SSI at some point. Is your mother eligible for free or low cost insurance now or are they reporting too much income? As a Canadian citizen, could your father return to Canada if a health crisis hit? I do not know what the rules are for getting back into the Canadian National healthcare system.

I am sorry you are in this situation.
Last edited by Katietsu on Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tph090
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

niceguy7376 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:43 pm Hi OP,
I dont know where to start.
So are you telling that you are Dad is here in US illegally right now without a proper visa?
What exactly happened to all the money of the LLC if they never took salaries?
Are you the only kid to them?
I totally understand that if they were abusive (in which ever way) to you while growing up, you dont want to have them with you.

At this juncture, with all the family dynamics, I would stay away from them as much as possible in terms of help initiation.
I am not sure if my Dad is in the US illegally. They're very secretive about it and I didn't know anything about it until my sister got married in Mexico last year and my dad did not come. He told her that the reason was that he did not renew his green card, but instructed her not to tell me and to say he was sick with the prostate issue.
The money from the LLC has paid their bills over the years.
I have a younger sister. She is still resentful of them not paying for her college and has no sympathy for them because they are both well-educated and could have gotten jobs.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by RickBoglehead »

You do nothing.

Your father is a lawyer. Knowing the legal ramifications, he let his green card expire. Knowing the legal ramifications, he didn't become a US citizen. He apparently earned good money at some point if he can charge $1,000 an hour today. Let them live their lives, you live yours.

Then you add in the emotionally abusive stuff...

Live your life, and make sure they don't negatively impact yours. If necessary, cut ties.
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tph090
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

Emg wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:47 pm Just to consider all options . . . Can they move back to Canada? Would your dad not be eligible for benefits there? I realize this may not be first or second choice but a little research might be worthwhile.
I will do some research on this, whether they may potentially be eligible for any benefits in Canada. Thank you.
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willthrill81
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by willthrill81 »

It seems that the only options are (1) for them to begin saving aggressively in hopes of retiring in their 70s, and selling their LLC to help fund their retirement, (2) move back to Canada, or (3) living off their family members when they no longer have an income.
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vitaflo
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by vitaflo »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:35 pm They don't pay salaries out of the LLC, so they have no SS work credits from that.
Something doesn't add up here. Your dad has had his own biz for 30 years but never paid himself a salary? What's the tax classification of the biz? With your mom not working I'm failing to understand how they receive money to pay for their daily lives without some form of income, unless they're also doing some very weird tax stuff that would just add to the plethora of problems they're dealing with.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

TPH. there is a wonderful eldercare site, www.agingcare.com. You will get lots of good advice there.

Your parents sound like lost children. Were they not planning to get old (there is a subset of folks who say "i'm going to die before I get old" and they REALLY believe it?

You might call the local (to them) Area Agency on Aging (every county in the US has one) and get your parents in there to talk about their eligibility for programs.

I agree with previous posters; giving them money would be like pouring water down a dried up well. Your dad may qualify for charity care at a Cancer hospital and there may be other programs that the AAA can identify that will help.
Last edited by BarbBrooklyn on Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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phornsby
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by phornsby »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:51 pm I am not sure if my Dad is in the US illegally. They're very secretive about it and I didn't know anything about it until my sister got married in Mexico last year and my dad did not come. He told her that the reason was that he did not renew his green card, but instructed her not to tell me and to say he was sick with the prostate issue.
If he has been here long enough his green card may be one of the kind that didn't ever expire.

See https://citizenpath.com/faq/green-card- ... tion-date/
Luckywon
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Luckywon »

I think their best bet is to hire an attorney in an effort to get your Dad a green card or citizenship. Perhaps this is possible since his spouse in a citizen. They would then likely qualify for Medi-cal or other health insurance subsidies at some point. This may vary by state so they may consider moving if necessary. For example, California I believe has a law providing health insurance subsidies for undocumented immigrants under 25. Perhaps it will be even less restrictive in the future.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by abuss368 »

RickBoglehead wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:53 pm You do nothing.

Your father is a lawyer. Knowing the legal ramifications, he let his green card expire. Knowing the legal ramifications, he didn't become a US citizen. He apparently earned good money at some point if he can charge $1,000 an hour today. Let them live their lives, you live yours.

Then you add in the emotionally abusive stuff...

Live your life, and make sure they don't negatively impact yours. If necessary, cut ties.
I would agree. There is an old saying and for good reason. "Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part".

Family issues. Sometimes there is never a correct answer.
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tph090
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

vitaflo wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:55 pm
tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:35 pm They don't pay salaries out of the LLC, so they have no SS work credits from that.
Something doesn't add up here. Your dad has had his own biz for 30 years but never paid himself a salary? What's the tax classification of the biz? With your mom not working I'm failing to understand how they receive money to pay for their daily lives without some form of income, unless they're also doing some very weird tax stuff that would just add to the plethora of problems they're dealing with.
It doesn't add up to me either. When my sister was applying to colleges they were very adamant about giving the FAFSA info directly to the school and her not having access to it. For some reason she saw it and it said their income was $19,000 per year. I assume it's LLC filing as sub-S. When I was applying to college they informed me they'd never applied for my actual Certificate of Citizenship or Social Security number, even though I was a US citizen through my mom and had lived here for 17 years I had to apply for all the paperwork, wait for it to trickle in, and wait a year to re-apply to college. So I don't know if their tax situation has always been logical.
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vitaflo
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by vitaflo »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:01 pm
vitaflo wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:55 pm
tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:35 pm They don't pay salaries out of the LLC, so they have no SS work credits from that.
Something doesn't add up here. Your dad has had his own biz for 30 years but never paid himself a salary? What's the tax classification of the biz? With your mom not working I'm failing to understand how they receive money to pay for their daily lives without some form of income, unless they're also doing some very weird tax stuff that would just add to the plethora of problems they're dealing with.
It doesn't add up to me either. When my sister was applying to colleges they were very adamant about giving the FAFSA info directly to the school and her not having access to it. For some reason she saw it and it said their income was $19,000 per year. I assume it's LLC filing as sub-S. When I was applying to college they informed me they'd never applied for my actual Certificate of Citizenship or Social Security number, even though I was a US citizen through my mom and had lived here for 17 years I had to apply for all the paperwork, wait for it to trickle in, and wait a year to re-apply to college. So I don't know if their tax situation has always been logical.
If it's an S-corp and they're taking no salary they're going to get audited (perhaps they already have). That's the biggest red flag there is. Even if they take too little in salary that is going to happen. And if they are taking a salary then they will surely have enough credits to receive SS and Medicare, assuming of course your dad still has his green card.

But if your dad is here illegally and has not been taking any salary from his s-corp that he charges $1k/hr in, he's going to eventually have much larger problems than not getting a SS check.
Dregob
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Dregob »

Tough situation emotionally. Tough love time. They both need to get full time jobs. Your dad can earn $1000/hr? It is time for both your parents to take some responsibility for their future. Don’t co-sign anything! I would be surprised if there was not some shady accounting going on to be honest.
Last edited by Dregob on Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tph090
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

Would you all even try to have a conversation about these things with them, or keep quiet? When something happens that you would think would make them snap into reality, they still don't get it. When they were getting evicted a couple years ago, they said it was a misunderstanding and that they would be filing a motion with the court to fix everything. Then they said they were going to countersue the landlord for mold. (I never saw any mold.) I know this happened at a previous rental in the past. I don't put it past them to sue me for filial obligation.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by rchmx1 »

You can't confuse your desire to help with their openness to receive help. From your description of the situation, it sounds like any attempt you made would be akin to beating your head against a wall. It may sound harsh, but if I were in your shoes my only priority would be making sure I don't get roped into their situation in any material way.
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ResearchMed
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by ResearchMed »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:14 pm Would you all even try to have a conversation about these things with them, or keep quiet? When something happens that you would think would make them snap into reality, they still don't get it. When they were getting evicted a couple years ago, they said it was a misunderstanding and that they would be filing a motion with the court to fix everything. Then they said they were going to countersue the landlord for mold. (I never saw any mold.) I know this happened at a previous rental in the past. I don't put it past them to sue me for filial obligation.
They "snap into reality"?
That doesn't seem to be happening, although it's really difficult (for me, anyway) to figure out what in the world is going on.

You need to take care of yourself. Given your description of the past (various stages), it doesn't sound like "having a conversation" is going to do anything.

I'd agree about trying to find some services, BUT... if he is here illegally, that could even backfire. Or cause the future problems to arrive sooner?

I know a lot of people here on BH have the approach of taking care of parents (who took care of one when younger, etc.), but that isn't always a situation that is realistic.

Speaking with an attorney might be useful... for *them*. You don't have enough info, and can't really speak for them (nor could "their" attorney speak fully with you if they had more info, unless permission was given).

Very difficult situation.
Are you able to keep your distance? And not feel guilty?

Something just seem SO "off"... like they are in another world. I wonder how they are even functioning...

Good luck!

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vitaflo
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by vitaflo »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:14 pm Would you all even try to have a conversation about these things with them, or keep quiet?
I think they've already proven, based on what you've said already, that they will not be honest or forthright with you about any of this. In fact I would ask yourself if what you do "know" aren't actually half-truths or false information.

I mean, think of it logically. If he can charge $1k/hr, he only needs to bill for 2 1/2 weeks a year to make six figures. Certainly that would be enough to make rent or own a car (which you say they don't). What is he doing with the rest of his time? Where does that money go?

Maybe it's a lie he bills that much. Maybe it isn't and he's trying to skirt the system and keep as much as possible and not let anyone (including the gov) know. Maybe he isn't making anything and got evicted. Maybe he's making bank and playing shell games and just decided not to pay rent cuz he knew he could just sue the landlord with a made up story cuz he's a bully.

You can have a conversation with them about these things but I'm not sure I'd expect an honest answer, nor would I expect anything constructive to come out of it.
halfnine
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by halfnine »

I am going to posit that your parents have been living outside the law. It probably started small but overtime it has snowballed into the position they are in now and there is no going back. They are probably trying to lay low and hopefully avoid Dad getting kicked out of the country or the IRS finding out about their previous business arrangements. Either would likely be catastrophic for them. As such they won't be seeking external help outside of the family.

Sorry you are in this position. Wishing you the best.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by student »

I don't understand. One does not lose status by not renewing green card. https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us ... -card.html "If you did not renew your green card on time, you should do so as soon as possible. Don't panic and think that you have lost your permanent residence itself. The green card is merely evidence of your status, and letting it expire does not, in and of itself, damage that underlying status." However, "The key thing to understand, however, is that one of your obligations under U.S. immigration laws is to carry a valid green card with you at all times, if you are age 18 or older. (See § 264(e) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (I.N.A.).) If you are caught with an expired green card, or an old-style green card with no expiration date, you could be prosecuted for a misdemeanor. Having a crime on your record can lead to problems and jeopardize your immigration status, for example when you apply for U.S. citizenship."

I do not understand why he does not have work credits for SSN. Has he not filed income tax over the years.? This is very strange to me. I don't think you have all the details and it is difficult for you to help.
Last edited by student on Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gray
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Gray »

What taxation obligations does your father have to Canada as a citizen living abroad?

If they are potentially in an illegal taxation situation, how would entangling your finances put you at risk?

Given your history, why would you consider helping without full disclosure from them and before consulting an attorney with international tax law expertise?
delamer
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by delamer »

Here’s some information on qualifying for Medicare: https://www.aarp.org/health/medicare-in ... ility.html

As you’ll see, they can get coverage even without qualifying work but it will be expensive for people with a non-existent retirement income.

If there is any chance of convincing your mother to take a low wage job, she still has time to reduce the cost of Medicare and qualify for Social Security.

Otherwise, I agree with the above advice to 1) see an immigration lawyer and 2) check with their county’s office of aging to see what service they may qualify for. Although the poster who noted that they may be living “outside the law” and won’t accept help makes a good point.

Only you can decide what your financial obligation is to them. You could agree to pay one specific bill (that is within your means) like rent or groceries to limit your exposure. Don’t agree to co-sign any leases or otherwise entangle yourself financially.

Best of luck.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by koala2 »

You can neither force someone else to change, nor take responsibility for their actions. Your parents might not even want help or guidance. Distance is often necessary. That can be hard to hear, given that it is family. But very important to establish and maintain those boundaries. I think you've done all you can right now by pointing them in the right direction as far as thinking critically about finances (you might also mention to them about some of the legal suggestions above). Best of luck!
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

seems to me if he can make $1000/hr then all he needs to do is work 200 hours and then they can have the condo of their dreams. Can he do 10 hours of work a week making $1000/hr? If so, he can get his house with cash in 20 weeks (5 months). What's the problem? Why would they ever be in a position of being evicted (other than health issues preventing him from working)?

medicaid for your mom and SSI as was said.

sounds like your dad is here illegally otherwise, why be secretive.

he may qualify for emergency medical only through Medicaid (state dependent) but not ongoing or preventative care.
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tph090
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

Gray wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:35 pm What taxation obligations does your father have to Canada as a citizen living abroad?

If they are potentially in an illegal taxation situation, how would entangling your finances put you at risk?

Given your history, why would you consider helping without full disclosure from them and before consulting an attorney with international tax law expertise?
I didn't even think of that, tax obligatons of a Canadian citizen living abroad.

I would not entangle my finances with them because they were emotionally abusive growing up and I'm not willing to sacrifice parts of my future for them. When they were getting evicted my mom asked if they could move in with my family and I said no because they have been crazy to my husband in the past and he doesn't speak to them. I don't know where they went after that, I didn't speak to them for a couple months.
retire57
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by retire57 »

Do nothing; they will muddle through. Easy for me to say :? Your focus is, quite rightly, on your own family.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Stinky »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:14 pm Would you all even try to have a conversation about these things with them, or keep quiet? When something happens that you would think would make them snap into reality, they still don't get it.
I think that you’ve answered your own question about whether you can help them. You can’t help them until they want to help themselves.

I’m sorry for your situation.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Tamarind »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:14 pm Would you all even try to have a conversation about these things with them, or keep quiet? When something happens that you would think would make them snap into reality, they still don't get it. When they were getting evicted a couple years ago, they said it was a misunderstanding and that they would be filing a motion with the court to fix everything. Then they said they were going to countersue the landlord for mold. (I never saw any mold.) I know this happened at a previous rental in the past. I don't put it past them to sue me for filial obligation.
I would keep quiet and prepare for the fight you may eventually need to have about the fact that you will not give them money or let them move in with you.

It's plain they do not want to discuss their situation with you, likely because it is illegal as well as desperate. You already said they were abusive, and they do not sound capable now of dealing with the consequences of their actions - lots of silence, lies, denial, attempts to control facts, etc.

I'm pretty sure they will not sue you for filial obligation even if they threaten to do so. That would expose their finances past and future to the scrutiny of the court and they will not do that.

It's not clear if you actually want to provide them the kind of help they'll want from you. I know I would not. If your main, completely understandable, desire is to minimize conflict with them, you may not be able to do that and protect yourself and your family at the same time.

Best wishes to you... Tough situation to be in. Kudos to you for getting separate and making it to your current life despite them.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by StrangePenguin »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:14 pm Would you all even try to have a conversation about these things with them, or keep quiet? When something happens that you would think would make them snap into reality, they still don't get it. When they were getting evicted a couple years ago, they said it was a misunderstanding and that they would be filing a motion with the court to fix everything. Then they said they were going to countersue the landlord for mold. (I never saw any mold.) I know this happened at a previous rental in the past. I don't put it past them to sue me for filial obligation.
Not sure what you can do to help them, but you need to protect yourself and your family. You mentioned filial obligation -- filial responsibility laws vary from state to state. What you might want to do is consult a lawyer to make sure that you understand the laws in the relevant states so that you can sleep soundly knowing that your parents can't come after your assets.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by FOGU »

rchmx1 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:24 pm ..... if I were in your shoes my only priority would be making sure I don't get roped into their situation in any material way.
I agree with this. Don't get roped in.

The behavior of your parents as you describe it is highly disordered.

Don't let them take you down with them, because they will if you let them.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by prairieman »

There is this little very old lady I used to see running the cash register at a cafeteria that I frequented near my old work place. She had tattoos that suggested to me she once may have lived somewhat vicariously. When I retired, I said goodbye to her. Her response was that she never can retire. I don’t know the full story and would never ask, but I thought of her again when I read the OP’s post.
FWIW, I did happen to go to that cafeteria three years later and there she still was. She might be 80. At least the restaurant lets her sit in a chair now. She used to stand all day.
This is where I think your mom and dad are headed.
“As long as the roots are not severed, all is well.” Chauncey Gardner
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rob
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by rob »

phornsby wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:01 pm
tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:51 pm I am not sure if my Dad is in the US illegally. They're very secretive about it and I didn't know anything about it until my sister got married in Mexico last year and my dad did not come. He told her that the reason was that he did not renew his green card, but instructed her not to tell me and to say he was sick with the prostate issue.
If he has been here long enough his green card may be one of the kind that didn't ever expire.

See https://citizenpath.com/faq/green-card- ... tion-date/
The physical card and the immigration status are different things... You need to figure out the status as will change the options. As above - the older cream colored card didn't have a replacement date but the newer ones do.
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
david99
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by david99 »

I think that you should just stay out of their situation. Your parents are well educated and know what their options are. They can and will make their own decisions.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by RickBoglehead »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:14 pm I don't put it past them to sue me for filial obligation.
Sad.

Let them. Pick up the phone and report your father to Homeland Security, the IRS, and Canada's taxation authority.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by willthrill81 »

prairieman wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:11 pm There is this little very old lady I used to see running the cash register at a cafeteria that I frequented near my old work place. She had tattoos that suggested to me she once may have lived somewhat vicariously. When I retired, I said goodbye to her. Her response was that she never can retire. I don’t know the full story and would never ask, but I thought of her again when I read the OP’s post.
FWIW, I did happen to go to that cafeteria three years later and there she still was. She might be 80. At least the restaurant lets her sit in a chair now. She used to stand all day.
This is where I think your mom and dad are headed.
At least they won't be alone. Millions of others will be forced by their circumstances to continue working as long as possibly can. Many Baby Boomers will become boomerang parents.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
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tph090
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

prairieman wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:11 pm There is this little very old lady I used to see running the cash register at a cafeteria that I frequented near my old work place. She had tattoos that suggested to me she once may have lived somewhat vicariously. When I retired, I said goodbye to her. Her response was that she never can retire. I don’t know the full story and would never ask, but I thought of her again when I read the OP’s post.
FWIW, I did happen to go to that cafeteria three years later and there she still was. She might be 80. At least the restaurant lets her sit in a chair now. She used to stand all day.
This is where I think your mom and dad are headed.
Yes this is why I posted. :( My dad is a nasty SOB but my mom is nutty but harmless and it would make me sad to think of this happening to her when she is old. I will try talking to her alone about getting any sort of job so that she can qualify for SS.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by TomatoTomahto »

It sounds harsh and cold, but my attitude with your parents would be “Not my circus, not my monkeys.”

I am very sorry for your situation, and impressed that you survived.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.
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tph090
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

rob wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:13 pm
phornsby wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:01 pm
tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:51 pm I am not sure if my Dad is in the US illegally. They're very secretive about it and I didn't know anything about it until my sister got married in Mexico last year and my dad did not come. He told her that the reason was that he did not renew his green card, but instructed her not to tell me and to say he was sick with the prostate issue.
If he has been here long enough his green card may be one of the kind that didn't ever expire.

See https://citizenpath.com/faq/green-card- ... tion-date/
The physical card and the immigration status are different things... You need to figure out the status as will change the options. As above - the older cream colored card didn't have a replacement date but the newer ones do.
The last time I know for sure he renewed it was like 2006 because I remember him going to Canada. I will try bringing it up gently with my mom to try and protect her interests somewhat. She lives by what he says, and he obviously doesn't think about her long term.
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gr7070
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by gr7070 »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:14 pm Would you all even try to have a conversation about these things with them, or keep quiet? When something happens that you would think would make them snap into reality, they still don't get it. When they were getting evicted a couple years ago, they said it was a misunderstanding and that they would be filing a motion with the court to fix everything. Then they said they were going to countersue the landlord for mold. (I never saw any mold.) I know this happened at a previous rental in the past. I don't put it past them to sue me for filial obligation.
In just two posts of yours it seems pretty clear that your parents would be unlikely to listen to your advice and even less likely to act on it. So, no.

Just like your money, your efforts would be wasted here, as well, maybe worse. Do absolutely nothing. You don't want to get dragged into anything either.

You have no moral obligation to help them, even if they were loving parents. If they were honoring all their parental responsibilities they would ensure they weren't a financial burden on their kids, too.

Don't help, in any way. No good deed... is a reasonable expectation here. Interact with them in whatever way gives you the most personal gratification with the least likely chance for harm.

Sorry you are dealing with this. You can (should) choose not to.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by abuss368 »

RickBoglehead wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:23 pm
tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:14 pm I don't put it past them to sue me for filial obligation.
Sad.

Let them. Pick up the phone and report your father to Homeland Security, the IRS, and Canada's taxation authority.
Ouch. Don’t walk. Run!
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gr7070
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by gr7070 »

I don't know much about it, but Canada's Pension Plan is, at least in part, based upon how much one paid into. One also needs to be more than just a citizen to qualify. Unfortunately don't know how helpful the CPP will be.

It's worth your parents looking into it, but as I mentioned above, I wouldn't facilitate anything.

That's not to be vengeful either. I just don't see you getting any personal gratification from helping, possibly worse.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by mptfan »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:45 pm seems to me if he can make $1000/hr then all he needs to do is work 200 hours and then they can have the condo of their dreams.
You're forgetting about taxes.
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Sandtrap »

An odd thing happens to many waiting or counting on a windfall. You might be seeing the unfortunate results of that.

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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by gr7070 »

tph090 wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:30 pm [My dad is a nasty SOB but my mom is nutty but harmless and it would make me sad to think of this happening to her when she is old.
At some point she becomes just as culpable. She's been fooled a thousand times by now, shame on her. Additionally, by your own words she hasn't been innocent in her actions towards you and very unlikely innocent in whatever financial and possible legal issues they *share*.

That's not necessarily to discourage you helping either (well maybe a little), but for perspective.

Guard your heart.
Last edited by gr7070 on Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Unladen_Swallow
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by Unladen_Swallow »

OP,

I am missing something.

- you don't need to be a citizen to receive SS.
- if your parents filed any taxes these past 30 years showing any income, then your Dad has SS. Are you saying they didn't file taxes in 30 years?
- one does not need to pay oneself a salary if working as an LLC. It can just be income.

Your Dad being an attorney in an LLC would have gotten into many problems in 30yrs if he didn't file taxes or show income.

Have they told you they don't have SS or are you assuming?

P.S - If your Dad is working right now, he is accruing SS benefits.
"I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong." - Richard Feynman
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by BarbBrooklyn »

This is mental illness.

In my world view, children have no financial obligation to impoverish themselves to support their parents.

We each pay our own way in the world. The fact that mom and dad didn't make a plan doesnt mean you need to derail yours.
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."
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tph090
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Re: My 60 y/o parents have basically 0 for retirement & will have no SS/Medicare

Post by tph090 »

Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:06 pm OP,

I am missing something.

- you don't need to be a citizen to receive SS.
- if your parents filed any taxes these past 30 years showing any income, then your Dad has SS. Are you saying they didn't file taxes in 30 years?
- one does not need to pay oneself a salary if working as an LLC. It can just be income.

Your Dad being an attorney in an LLC would have gotten into many problems in 30yrs if he didn't file taxes or show income.

Have they told you they don't have SS or are you assuming?

P.S - If your Dad is working right now, he is accruing SS benefits.
I have an LLC filing as a sub-S corp that I pay myself a salary out of, and I was under the impression that Social Security employer & employee side are only taken out of any salary to an individual, NOT taken out of any pass-through profit or loss of the company. So if they haven't paid themselves any salary (which I don't believe they have since they looked confused when I referred to running payroll for myself), they wouldn't have paid into Social Security at all, I thought.
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