Spreadsheets - Out of here!

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Stef
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by Stef »

Stinky wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:06 am
abuss368 wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:09 pm After reviewing everything today, I clicked on the file and hit delete. It was rewarding.
My heart skipped a beat when I read this.
Yeah it's like shooting your own dog in the head after years living with him.

Could never do that.
dcabler
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by dcabler »

Stinky wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:06 am
abuss368 wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:09 pm After reviewing everything today, I clicked on the file and hit delete. It was rewarding.
My heart skipped a beat when I read this.

I can't imagine my life without spreadsheets.

I've used them since the very first days of Visicalc on a tiny Apple II computer. And I expect to use them until I die.
Same here. Now if I didn't like spreadsheets or considered it a hassle, sure, I'd dump them. But I actually enjoy working with spreadsheets. I've had it since 2004, but have made modifications along the way. I have accounts across several institutions and I've found that it's the best way for me to keep track of everything.
acegolfer
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by acegolfer »

For anyone stopped using spreadsheet, is it because you don't need it any more or because you didn't need it at all.

Personally, my finances are on cruise control. So I don't need a spreadsheet to manage my finance. But when there's a traffic or need to exit, then I won't be on cruise control any more.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by abuss368 »

acegolfer wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:31 am For anyone stopped using spreadsheet, is it because you don't need it any more or because you didn't need it at all.

Personally, my finances are on cruise control. So I don't need a spreadsheet to manage my finance. But when there's a traffic or need to exit, then I won't be on cruise control any more.
Probably both. We personally have worked on simplifying everything (financial and non-financial) over the past few years and it is paying off. We are in the accumulation phase and with a simple Jack Bogle and Warren Buffett Two Fund Portfolio and one bank account there was nothing to review or analyze.

Everything we need is available by logging into the bank or Vanguard. Vanguard's website and statements have more information than we need. A spreadsheet would have no difference.

The never ending journey of simplicity frees one up to relax, enjoy friends and family, and live life.

Thank you Jack Bogle!
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
lostdog
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by lostdog »

abuss368 wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:45 am
acegolfer wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:31 am For anyone stopped using spreadsheet, is it because you don't need it any more or because you didn't need it at all.

Personally, my finances are on cruise control. So I don't need a spreadsheet to manage my finance. But when there's a traffic or need to exit, then I won't be on cruise control any more.
Probably both. We personally have worked on simplifying everything (financial and non-financial) over the past few years and it is paying off. We are in the accumulation phase and with a simple Jack Bogle and Warren Buffett Two Fund Portfolio and one bank account there was nothing to review or analyze.

Everything we need is available by logging into the bank or Vanguard. Vanguard's website and statements have more information than we need. A spreadsheet would have no difference.

The never ending journey of simplicity frees one up to relax, enjoy friends and family, and live life.

Thank you Jack Bogle!
Exactly the same except we use a shared spreadsheet for the check register. We just use Google sheets and it's simple.

We use the other simple two fund portfolio but I'm not sure what to call it.
Last edited by lostdog on Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Broken Man 1999
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:58 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:47 pm Never used any spreadsheets, as I see no value in recreating any activities that are captured already for me.
I can definitely see your logic. But helping to understand what we've spent in the past helps us to estimate, if nothing else, how much we'll spend in the future. It also helps us to plan on how much we need to save to achieve our goals and, at the same time, how much we can afford to spend going forward.

I find it both amusing and a bit saddening to hear people say, usually with regard to retirement spending, that they cannot reduce their six-figure spending at all because all of it is essential.
To be honest, my cavalier attitude towards many aspects of retirement is because DW and I have had 20 years to practice living on a somewhat fixed income. After my accident and DW retired, our income was only my SSDI, and my LTD benefit, for the most part.
.
I agree, it is mind-boggling that some are unable to know what spending is essential, and what is discretionary. How do they go through a 30-40 year career without knowing themselves?

We certainly could trim a lot of our spending, but we aren't anywhere near an unsustainable withdrawal rate. So we enjoy life as best we can.

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Cyclesafe
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by Cyclesafe »

My spreadsheet starts from 12/31/10 when the losses from Great Recession jolted me out of previous benign neglect. Like with Dale G, my record since then has shown my evolution into the Boglehead I am today. It is a reminder that no matter what I do in reaction to the market, I will be wrong, wrong, wrong. But sometimes lucky.

But the most important benefit of my spreadsheet is project net worth out to 2054 when my wife and I will expire at age 100. This Sisyphean task demonstrates which variables drive the algorithm. These are the usual suspects: asset allocation, projected returns, unexpected inflation, spending, tax schemes, etc. etc. etc. Testing one of these variables while holding the rest constant, gives me a feel for its sensitivity. Rinse and repeat.

My ending net worth in current dollars fluctuates wildly as I tweak inputs, demonstrating that almost any end result is possible. We know nothing, so we must have faith that all will work out in the end.....

So who needs a spreadsheet?
"Plans are useless; planning is indispensable.” (Dwight Eisenhower) | "Man plans, God laughs" (Yiddish proverb)
SQRT
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by SQRT »

Stinky wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:06 am

I can't imagine my life without spreadsheets.

I've used them since the very first days of Visicalc on a tiny Apple II computer. And I expect to use them until I die.
Likewise. Love my spreadsheets. Budgets, cost basis, tracking of days in various countries (required by US immigration), tax forecasting, modelling, etc. Most of our important financial decisions are supported by a spreadsheet. I actually enjoy designing and using them. Not surprising being an accountant, I guess.
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StoneBob
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by StoneBob »

My financial path from callow youth to retired oldster is littered with the corpses of hundreds and hundreds of spreadsheets. Good soldiers all, and may they rest in peace in the great bit bucket.

Nowadays, DW and I have pensions and SS enough to cover living expenses and a simple two-fund 50/50 portfolio at Vanguard for backup.

We find YNAB useful for tracking expenses and budgeting.

I still gin up an occasional spreadsheet for planning household projects.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by JGoneRiding »

My spreadsheets are like journaling for me. They track my financial improvement.

I print out the net worth sheet and file it now with the taxes folder. Last night I realized with the real estate we had cleared 700k! I was shocked. Haven't decided yet if I should tell the hubby (most of it is really mine) we have a current cash flow issue due to me cutting back at work and day care costs going up so I dont want him to think we can spend any extra money.

I realize that might not seem fair but even taking 3 months off and cutting back I made 1.5x what he did.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by JGoneRiding »

SGM wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:45 am My spreadsheets are of no help with my most difficult decision in retirement.

What color Porsche should I buy?
You could make a sheet tracking accidents by color? Or speeding tickets. Do red cars really get more?
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cashboy
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by cashboy »

like some other posters, my use of spreadsheets covers all aspects of my finances (expenses, sources of income, planning, etc.), not just investments.

they are more for 'where i am going' than 'where i have been'.

so for me it makes sense to keep using them.

i tend to agree though that if a view of portfolio growth is the only requirement then maybe they are not needed.
Three-Fund Portfolio: FSPSX - FXAIX - FXNAX (with slight tilt of CDs - CASH - Canned Beans - Rice - Bottled Water)
MoonOrb
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by MoonOrb »

One day I hope to make a similar post. But we have 13 investment accounts spread out among 4 different places:

His 401a
His 403b
His 457
Her 403b (1) (matching funds only-weird quirk of employer)
Her 403b (2) (voluntary contributions)
Her 457
His Roth IRA
Her Roth IRA
His rollover IRA
Her rollover IRA
His HSA
Her HSA
Joint taxable investing account

A spreadsheet organizes all of this onto a single page so I can see at a glance if I'm at the right AA and what the size of our investments are. Both are key things to understand for planning purposes.
Mako52
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by Mako52 »

Spreadsheets can show you lots of things about the past (coulda shoulda woulda), or present. For example, what kind of margin I can make on a stock or good that I'm selling. How much wine from 2013 I have in the basement that I need to drink before it goes bad. What kind of gas mileage I got in April 2015.

They can't predict the future.

They can be a deep rabbit hole of analysis paralysis.

They don't make you money. Outside of the stock market, only active efforts do that.
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Leif
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by Leif »

Horton wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:47 pm
abuss368 wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:09 pm
After reviewing everything today, I clicked on the file and hit delete. It was rewarding.
Just don’t empty your recycle bin :P
I was going to say the same. But he says it is gone. But there is (or should be) backups :wink:.

I went through the same exercise with budgeting using Quicken. I tried it for a while, but started asking myself is the result worth the effort. I did not like the mindless work of entering a lot of data.

I think the reason I've keep my portfolio spreadsheet is that I automated it. Prices are downloaded with the click of a button. The only thing that is much effort is updating the share counts due to purchases or reinvestment. But that is just once a month so it is more tolerable for me.

My spreadsheet is my financial management tool.
Last edited by Leif on Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
3504PIR
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by 3504PIR »

JBTX wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:55 pm
3504PIR wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:16 pm
Halicar wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:14 pm
3504PIR wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:17 pm But then how will anyone count up all their pennies, which seems to be a popular activity for so many here? :?
Someday I hope to be wealthy enough that my day-to-day spending will be negligible with regard to my income and net worth. I'm not quite there yet, so I'll continue to count my pennies for now.

I’ve never been rich, never crunched numbers on a budget and never calculated my net worth (and wouldn’t even know how).
My post was more about people here who seem to endlessly count their money.

Hmmm....
No idea what point you’re making here.
AlwaysaQ
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by AlwaysaQ »

Thanks to this topic I did eliminate a number of spreadsheets though not all.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by JBTX »

3504PIR wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:56 pm
JBTX wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:55 pm
3504PIR wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:16 pm
Halicar wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:14 pm
3504PIR wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:17 pm But then how will anyone count up all their pennies, which seems to be a popular activity for so many here? :?
Someday I hope to be wealthy enough that my day-to-day spending will be negligible with regard to my income and net worth. I'm not quite there yet, so I'll continue to count my pennies for now.

I’ve never been rich, never crunched numbers on a budget and never calculated my net worth (and wouldn’t even know how).
My post was more about people here who seem to endlessly count their money.

Hmmm....
No idea what point you’re making here.
You seem to know / do little to nothing about personal finance, per your own admission, yet take pot shots at those who care about this stuff. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish.
StealthRabbit
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by StealthRabbit »

I still like spreadsheets, If you were on my Christmas or Valentine's list you might expect one in the mail!
3504PIR
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by 3504PIR »

JBTX wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:40 pm
3504PIR wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:56 pm
JBTX wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:55 pm
3504PIR wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:16 pm
Halicar wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:14 pm

Someday I hope to be wealthy enough that my day-to-day spending will be negligible with regard to my income and net worth. I'm not quite there yet, so I'll continue to count my pennies for now.

I’ve never been rich, never crunched numbers on a budget and never calculated my net worth (and wouldn’t even know how).
My post was more about people here who seem to endlessly count their money.

Hmmm....
No idea what point you’re making here.
You seem to know / do little to nothing about personal finance, per your own admission, yet take pot shots at those who care about this stuff. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish.
Personal finance = spreadsheets? If you endlessly count your money then I am sorry, but you are the one who came into the non-spreadsheet thread and took the pot shot. I simply posted my supporting comment of non-use of spreadsheets, got accused of being too rich to need them and then got accused by you of taking pot shots. Have you looked in the mirror lately?
Last edited by 3504PIR on Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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FIREchief
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by FIREchief »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:18 pm For long-term tax planning purposes involving Roth conversions and other issues, I really don't see a good alternative to using spreadsheets, whether computerized or manual.
Same here. I'm guessing the ex-spreadsheet crowd either has no real need for long term tax planning or they're just relying on seat-of-the-pants strategies (e.g. convert to the top of some arbitrary xx% bracket, etc.).
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by averagedude »

I'm a big believer in spreadsheets. It can optimize results in a mathematical manner. Often times, it is just picking up pennies and is time wasted.
JBTX
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by JBTX »

3504PIR wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:33 pm
JBTX wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:40 pm
3504PIR wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:56 pm
JBTX wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:55 pm
3504PIR wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:16 pm


I’ve never been rich, never crunched numbers on a budget and never calculated my net worth (and wouldn’t even know how).
My post was more about people here who seem to endlessly count their money.

Hmmm....
No idea what point you’re making here.
You seem to know / do little to nothing about personal finance, per your own admission, yet take pot shots at those who care about this stuff. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish.
Personal finance = spreadsheets? If you endlessly count your money then I am sorry, but you are the one who came into the non-spreadsheet thread and took the pot shot. I simply posted my supporting comment of non-use of spreadsheets, got accused of being too rich to need them and then got accused by you of taking pot shots. Have you looked in the mirror lately?
This wasn't a particularly constructive comment.
3504PIR wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:17 pm But then how will anyone count up all their pennies, which seems to be a popular activity for so many here? :?
Why do you feel the need to keep belittling posters who spend more time on this stuff than you?
3504PIR
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by 3504PIR »

JBTX wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:31 pm
3504PIR wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:33 pm
JBTX wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:40 pm
3504PIR wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:56 pm
JBTX wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:55 pm





Hmmm....
No idea what point you’re making here.
You seem to know / do little to nothing about personal finance, per your own admission, yet take pot shots at those who care about this stuff. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish.
Personal finance = spreadsheets? If you endlessly count your money then I am sorry, but you are the one who came into the non-spreadsheet thread and took the pot shot. I simply posted my supporting comment of non-use of spreadsheets, got accused of being too rich to need them and then got accused by you of taking pot shots. Have you looked in the mirror lately?
This wasn't a particularly constructive comment.
3504PIR wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:17 pm But then how will anyone count up all their pennies, which seems to be a popular activity for so many here? :?
Why do you feel the need to keep belittling posters who spend more time on this stuff than you?
How is your comment constructive in a thread about dumping spreadsheets? And which posters did I belittle? I didn’t post in the thread about the value of spreadsheets which was running concurrently . I posted in the thread about not needing them. YOU posted in a thread about not needing spreadsheets saying I am belittling those that need them. My opinion is that they have little value, in a thread about not needing them. You may disagree with me, but that is something you should spell out with your insights on why I am wrong about how spreadsheets add value to tracking related to what the OP was discussing. Not about why you seem to need a spreadsheet to tell you how many pennies you do or don’t have. I am having a hard time understanding why you decided to enter a thread you hadn’t commented on before other than to take a shot at me? “Hmm?”
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btq96r
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by btq96r »

I use a spreadsheet for every year. I could live without it, but it's kind of therapeutic for my OCD. It's fairly simple for what a spreadsheet can do, but helps keep me organized and motivated for my goals.

Some of the tabs are:
All things budgeting; also keeps me on track for making payments
Paycheck income to calculate taxable income and taxes already paid
Tax estimation
Asset Allocation (also includes planners for mortgage payments based on how much I've saved up for a down payment)
Tracking funds invested during the year (let's me measure my annual goals)
Projections (Standard and Retirement accounts) to give me an idea of the range I'll be retiring with if I keep focused and stick to principles
JBTX
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by JBTX »

3504PIR wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:30 am
JBTX wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:31 pm
3504PIR wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:33 pm
JBTX wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:40 pm
3504PIR wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:56 pm

No idea what point you’re making here.
You seem to know / do little to nothing about personal finance, per your own admission, yet take pot shots at those who care about this stuff. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish.
Personal finance = spreadsheets? If you endlessly count your money then I am sorry, but you are the one who came into the non-spreadsheet thread and took the pot shot. I simply posted my supporting comment of non-use of spreadsheets, got accused of being too rich to need them and then got accused by you of taking pot shots. Have you looked in the mirror lately?
This wasn't a particularly constructive comment.
3504PIR wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:17 pm But then how will anyone count up all their pennies, which seems to be a popular activity for so many here? :?
Why do you feel the need to keep belittling posters who spend more time on this stuff than you?
How is your comment constructive in a thread about dumping spreadsheets? And which posters did I belittle? I didn’t post in the thread about the value of spreadsheets which was running concurrently . I posted in the thread about not needing them. YOU posted in a thread about not needing spreadsheets saying I am belittling those that need them. My opinion is that they have little value, in a thread about not needing them. You may disagree with me, but that is something you should spell out with your insights on why I am wrong about how spreadsheets add value to tracking related to what the OP was discussing. Not about why you seem to need a spreadsheet to tell you how many pennies you do or don’t have. I am having a hard time understanding why you decided to enter a thread you hadn’t commented on before other than to take a shot at me? “Hmm?”
Your opinion is they are of little value, but you see no value in budgeting or tracking net worth, and don't even know how to track net worth. So how would you even know whether they are of value?

As for me I've used spreadsheets for decades at work. For personal finance I use quicken. While I ultimately could create reasonably automated spreadsheets, I would have to log into dozens of accounts and manually download the transactions. With a reasonably modest amount of work with quicken , I can keep all my information integrated. I may occasionally use spreadsheets for personal finance but typically for ad hoc analysis.

You speak of the "counting pennies" as either a burden or some hedonistic activity, but some people may actually enjoy it. People engage in all kinds are seemingly frivolous activities as entertainment, and that's all OK, but spending time with personal finance (and or spreadsheets) is apparently character flaw or a moral shortcoming. Fact is sometimes I find grinding through something on a spreadsheet satisfying. It is a tool for problem solving. And it is also a way to be creative. So if you can do something that is creative, maintains mental acuity, and has a payoff - whether pennies, dollars or thousands of dollars, then what is wrong with that?

For those that don't like it and don't need to use them, then by all means, don't.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by SGM »

I have been using spreadsheets for over 40 years both at work and for personal finance. It has helped me make decisions in the past and currently. Spreadsheets continue to be a great planning tool. I also keep information on cost basis that is not available through a brokerage account.

The comment about what color Porsche to buy comes from a 75 year old rocket scientist who works all over the country and gets questions from twenty somethings who overhear him discuss finances with older workers. He tells the young ones to automatically invest into a broad index fund with each paycheck, don't look at it and when they retire their biggest problem will be what color Porsche to buy. He is a multimillionaire who loves Jack Bogle, but does valuable and exciting work and still has plenty of time for family and friends.

Personally I don't need no stinking Porsche, to paraphrase "Yellow Hat" regarding badges.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by mmcmonster »

dcabler wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:28 am
Stinky wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:06 am
abuss368 wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:09 pm After reviewing everything today, I clicked on the file and hit delete. It was rewarding.
My heart skipped a beat when I read this.

I can't imagine my life without spreadsheets.

I've used them since the very first days of Visicalc on a tiny Apple II computer. And I expect to use them until I die.
Same here. Now if I didn't like spreadsheets or considered it a hassle, sure, I'd dump them. But I actually enjoy working with spreadsheets. I've had it since 2004, but have made modifications along the way. I have accounts across several institutions and I've found that it's the best way for me to keep track of everything.
Not sure if I could ever get rid of my investments spreadsheet.

Not just how it allows me to maintain my total asset allocation among numerous accounts (for tax efficiency sake), but also because I monthly save a .PDF of my spreadsheet so that I have an ongoing record of changes in my net worth over time.

I used these saved versions in another spreadsheet (of course!) to graph my net worth over the last several years. Easy to see my progress towards FI. :sharebeer It also keeps me on track during a drop in the market, since I know the overall trend (over several years) is upwards.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by abuss368 »

Bogleheads -

An excellent thread with many different perspectives and thoughts.

Thanks!
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by abuss368 »

I have learned that a simple portfolio often does not need any spreadsheet.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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FIREchief
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by FIREchief »

abuss368 wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:09 pm Bogleheads -

After decades of building and using spreadsheets, I started to question the need and perceived value. In my opinion it was no longer a good or valuable use of time. Time that is better spent elsewhere as a spreadsheet makes zero difference or impact to a portfolio.
Just what exactly were your (now deleted) spreadsheets used for?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by LoveTheBogle »

Stinky wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:06 am
abuss368 wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:09 pm After reviewing everything today, I clicked on the file and hit delete. It was rewarding.
My heart skipped a beat when I read this.

I can't imagine my life without spreadsheets.

I've used them since the very first days of Visicalc on a tiny Apple II computer. And I expect to use them until I die.
If you are good with spreadsheets you can build a model to give you the statistical date of demise.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by abuss368 »

FIREchief wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:13 pm Just what exactly were your (now deleted) spreadsheets used for?
The spreadsheet provided portfolio value, performance, and allocation all on one tab.
Last edited by abuss368 on Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by Stinky »

LoveTheBogle wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:15 pm
Stinky wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:06 am
abuss368 wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:09 pm After reviewing everything today, I clicked on the file and hit delete. It was rewarding.
My heart skipped a beat when I read this.

I can't imagine my life without spreadsheets.

I've used them since the very first days of Visicalc on a tiny Apple II computer. And I expect to use them until I die.
If you are good with spreadsheets you can build a model to give you the statistical date of demise.
Yes, if you’re good with spreadsheets (and actuarial techniques), you could build a spreadsheet that shows the chance that you’ll make it to age 70, 80, 90, etc.

Unfortunately, a person is either fully alive or fully dead. There’s no in-between. And no spreadsheet could show me the exact date of my demise.

But I’ll keep thinking about it ......
It's a GREAT day to be alive - Travis Tritt
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by JohnFiscal »

Leif wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:47 pm
I think the reason I've keep my portfolio spreadsheet is that I automated it. Prices are downloaded with the click of a button. The only thing that is much effort is updating the share counts due to purchases or reinvestment. But that is just once a month so it is more tolerable for me.

My spreadsheet is my financial management tool.
ditto here too for management.

My pain in entering Vanguard transactions is relieved now that I download the csv file and have an Excel macro run to put all the transactions in place. What was an hour or so of frustration is now a simple 30 sec task.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by abuss368 »

LoveTheBogle wrote: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:15 pm
Stinky wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:06 am
abuss368 wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:09 pm After reviewing everything today, I clicked on the file and hit delete. It was rewarding.
My heart skipped a beat when I read this.

I can't imagine my life without spreadsheets.

I've used them since the very first days of Visicalc on a tiny Apple II computer. And I expect to use them until I die.
If you are good with spreadsheets you can build a model to give you the statistical date of demise.
Not sure I would want to know!
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by abuss368 »

Bogleheads -

Cleaning out the computer and found another older spreadsheet that tracked debt. Amortization schedule and running balances!

Why?

What purpose or need?

All debt is consolidated with bank and vehicles.

Taylor once provided advice that simply said "My creditors always knew how to find me and remind me of what I owed." Simple and effective words to live by.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by Target2019 »

What is measured, is managed.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by averagedude »

There are alot of super smart people on this forum (much smarter than me), but rebalancing a 6 fund portfolio once a year is a mathematical task that even a 7th grader can do. My 401k at Fidelity, they have it set up that it can take less than 30 seconds to rebalance and I don't even need a calculator. With this being said, I do understand that simplicity is a good thing.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by PopMegaphone »

I use a spreadsheet because I have many accounts due to 401k's, company stock, taxable, etc. I've consolidated as much as I can, but some of it as to stay separate.

Another problem I have is my 401k's only offer SP500 and extended market indexes funds (no total market), so I have the additional task of getting an 80/20 balance for large vs mid/small cap. Additionally, I have a Vanguard target retirement fund that I need to pull the frequently updated fund weightings (equity vs bonds, domestic vs intl) to ensure I'm achieving my desired ratios. My portfolio basically simulates a 3 fund portfolio but it doesn't happen naturally.

Also, I think tracking my net worth helps with FIRE planning.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by abuss368 »

PopMegaphone wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:52 pm I use a spreadsheet because I have many accounts due to 401k's, company stock, taxable, etc. I've consolidated as much as I can, but some of it as to stay separate.

Another problem I have is my 401k's only offer SP500 and extended market indexes funds (no total market), so I have the additional task of getting an 80/20 balance for large vs mid/small cap. Additionally, I have a Vanguard target retirement fund that I need to pull the frequently updated fund weightings (equity vs bonds, domestic vs intl) to ensure I'm achieving my desired ratios. My portfolio basically simulates a 3 fund portfolio but it doesn't happen naturally.

Also, I think tracking my net worth helps with FIRE planning.
Someday when retired if everything is consolidated you may no longer need a spreadsheet.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by 1789 »

abuss368 wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:09 pm Bogleheads -

After decades of building and using spreadsheets, I started to question the need and perceived value. In my opinion it was no longer a good or valuable use of time. Time that is better spent elsewhere as a spreadsheet makes zero difference or impact to a portfolio.

After reviewing everything today, I clicked on the file and hit delete. It was rewarding.

Simplicity! What a major leap forward the past couple of months. Moving from a six fund portfolio to Mr. Bogle's and Mr. Buffett's Two Fund Portfolio and now deleting all spreadsheets: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=188176

Simplicity (both financially and non-financially) is never ending, but rather a rewarding journey.

Best.
abuss368,

I think you did the right thing. We never track any of our investments on any sheet. We never do budgeting. We let life carry on and try enjoying every minute along the way. Sometimes the more maintenance on something the more it gets worse.

Keep life simple.
Congratulations!
"My conscience wants vegetarianism to win over the world. And my subconscious is yearning for a piece of juicy meat. But what do i want?" (Andrei Tarkovsky)
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by Financologist »

Simplicity yes
Spreadsheets help with this indeed
Quit them I shall not
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by abuss368 »

1789 wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:08 pm
abuss368 wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:09 pm Bogleheads -

After decades of building and using spreadsheets, I started to question the need and perceived value. In my opinion it was no longer a good or valuable use of time. Time that is better spent elsewhere as a spreadsheet makes zero difference or impact to a portfolio.

After reviewing everything today, I clicked on the file and hit delete. It was rewarding.

Simplicity! What a major leap forward the past couple of months. Moving from a six fund portfolio to Mr. Bogle's and Mr. Buffett's Two Fund Portfolio and now deleting all spreadsheets: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=188176

Simplicity (both financially and non-financially) is never ending, but rather a rewarding journey.

Best.
abuss368,

I think you did the right thing. We never track any of our investments on any sheet. We never do budgeting. We let life carry on and try enjoying every minute along the way. Sometimes the more maintenance on something the more it gets worse.

Keep life simple.
Congratulations!
Thanks!
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by TravelforFun »

Stinky wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:06 am
abuss368 wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:09 pm After reviewing everything today, I clicked on the file and hit delete. It was rewarding.
My heart skipped a beat when I read this.

I can't imagine my life without spreadsheets.

I've used them since the very first days of Visicalc on a tiny Apple II computer. And I expect to use them until I die.
I've made so many financial decisions based on half a dozen of spreadsheets I run. I'd be lost without them so thank you, Mr. Gates.

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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by H-Town »

Target2019 wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:18 pm What is measured, is managed.
^ Agree.

OP: why the hate of tracking and managing finances coming from? Why the hate of Excel? If it doesn’t work for you, then so be it. It’s not about simplicity that you alluded to. It’s more about you don’t want to do it.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by Dottie57 »

Spreadsheets are fine. But I have only very basic skills. My accounts are in two places, so not hard to total up. The brokerage site gives me percentages on accounts and globally over all accounts. Pretty happy without big spreadsheets.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by 3504PIR »

JBTX wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:37 am
3504PIR wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:30 am
JBTX wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:31 pm
3504PIR wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:33 pm
JBTX wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:40 pm

You seem to know / do little to nothing about personal finance, per your own admission, yet take pot shots at those who care about this stuff. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish.
Personal finance = spreadsheets? If you endlessly count your money then I am sorry, but you are the one who came into the non-spreadsheet thread and took the pot shot. I simply posted my supporting comment of non-use of spreadsheets, got accused of being too rich to need them and then got accused by you of taking pot shots. Have you looked in the mirror lately?
This wasn't a particularly constructive comment.
3504PIR wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:17 pm But then how will anyone count up all their pennies, which seems to be a popular activity for so many here? :?
Why do you feel the need to keep belittling posters who spend more time on this stuff than you?
How is your comment constructive in a thread about dumping spreadsheets? And which posters did I belittle? I didn’t post in the thread about the value of spreadsheets which was running concurrently . I posted in the thread about not needing them. YOU posted in a thread about not needing spreadsheets saying I am belittling those that need them. My opinion is that they have little value, in a thread about not needing them. You may disagree with me, but that is something you should spell out with your insights on why I am wrong about how spreadsheets add value to tracking related to what the OP was discussing. Not about why you seem to need a spreadsheet to tell you how many pennies you do or don’t have. I am having a hard time understanding why you decided to enter a thread you hadn’t commented on before other than to take a shot at me? “Hmm?”
Your opinion is they are of little value, but you see no value in budgeting or tracking net worth, and don't even know how to track net worth. So how would you even know whether they are of value?

As for me I've used spreadsheets for decades at work. For personal finance I use quicken. While I ultimately could create reasonably automated spreadsheets, I would have to log into dozens of accounts and manually download the transactions. With a reasonably modest amount of work with quicken , I can keep all my information integrated. I may occasionally use spreadsheets for personal finance but typically for ad hoc analysis.

You speak of the "counting pennies" as either a burden or some hedonistic activity, but some people may actually enjoy it. People engage in all kinds are seemingly frivolous activities as entertainment, and that's all OK, but spending time with personal finance (and or spreadsheets) is apparently character flaw or a moral shortcoming. Fact is sometimes I find grinding through something on a spreadsheet satisfying. It is a tool for problem solving. And it is also a way to be creative. So if you can do something that is creative, maintains mental acuity, and has a payoff - whether pennies, dollars or thousands of dollars, then what is wrong with that?

For those that don't like it and don't need to use them, then by all means, don't.
And thanks to the resurrection of this post and reading your reply, we still don’t use them as originally stated in a thread about not needing them, and again wonder why you feel the need to troll a post about not needing them and berate posters who don’t? All the while stating I alone in a thread about not needing spreadsheets am bashing those who use them. I am sure your spreadsheets have changed the world from your cubicle or office. Good for you! You were true to your original post in not grasping the fact that this is a thread about not having the need for them, while at the exact same time a few weeks ago, there was a parallel post on the greatness of them which you should’ve posted extensively. You should next go post in a thread about favorite places in Europe with your favorite places in Asia, that would be useful. Read the thread title and post accordingly, from your cubicle.

Just checked, and as an early retiree, I’m still not using spreadsheets, lol.
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by abuss368 »

Financologist wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:18 pm Simplicity yes
Spreadsheets help with this indeed
Quit them I shall not
For us it was hard letting go. But once we did it was rewarding and simplified. We had no impact or struggle moving forward.

That was surprising for us.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: Spreadsheets - Out of here!

Post by abuss368 »

H-Town wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:45 pm OP: why the hate of tracking and managing finances coming from? Why the hate of Excel? If it doesn’t work for you, then so be it. It’s not about simplicity that you alluded to. It’s more about you don’t want to do it.
There is no hate of spreadsheets or Excel as I use it all day long in my profession! The point of this thread is our financial lives have been so simplified (and we are constantly looking for ways to simplify even more - it is out there , just need to keep refining) that we found we no longer had a need.

Vanguard statements provide more information than a stay the course investor could need.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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