To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
User avatar
puc_ytpme
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:04 pm
Location: USA

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by puc_ytpme »

1) In hindsight, my parents & grandfather not living beyond their means, laid a foundation that I ignored, & now implement. I am 36

2) Grandfather for believing in me, never doubting that I would get it together & for leaving me his estate(the wiki on managing a windfall has come in clutch) I would have never imagined this would have been the case

3) Discovering the Bogleheads in July 2018, for that I am grateful. Particularly on the behavioral side of finance. As Rick Ferri has said “There is no average investor”.

4) The biggest factor by far for me is God doing what I could not or would not do for myself & that was getting sober.

The emotional struggle is real, not just on how to handle :moneybag

“Health is the greatest gift, contentment is the greatest wealth”

All the best
No person ever steps in the same river twice, for it’s not the same river & they’re not the same person
Ocean77
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:20 pm

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by Ocean77 »

After a long journey of overspending and overstuffing our life, we eventually figured out what makes us happy: a simple life. A few years ago, we got rid of our big home and mortgage and a big chunk of our belongings, moved to a more affordable working class area and got a modest condo. It actually took months to get rid of all the accumulated things, with many trips to Goodwill and the library donating things, yard sales etc. It felt totally liberating in the end when our home was simple and clean, the garage empty and usable, all debt gone and money now piling up in our accounts. We just wish we had done this earlier.
JakeyLee
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:34 am

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by JakeyLee »

My ability to forego spending and save can be narrowed down to my mid 20's. I started making real money and finally bought all those toys that were supposed to make me happy. Turns out they didn't make me happy. Just added debt and stress. My uncle turned me on to writings by John Bogle, Peter Lynch, and the Millionaire Next Door. I was already contributing to my deferred comp, so buckled down on maxing and eliminating all debt. I'm a game theory guy at heart. I love watching assets build and grow. Almost 30 years later and here I am. I want for nothing. I was never lucky enough to have children or much of a nuclear family. It feels good to know I won't be a burden on society or extended family. :happy
User avatar
ChowYunPhat
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:49 pm
Location: Texas

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by ChowYunPhat »

Love this thread. Thinking back, it's been a lifetime of lessons that have helped prepare my family to forego spending and save. I'm not sure if "fear" is the right word, but we know what lack looks like and are partially motivated to prepare for both our future and potential periods of lack.

1. Blessed to be born in the US in the late 20th century.
2. Two parent home, but lower class. Saw my parents work very hard to make ends meet and put food on the table. Helped my father put on work boots some mornings as he was physically unable to do so himself. This made an impression.
3. Was able to observe my father do the family banking and save money, even though my parents were not very sophisticated savers.
4. Got my MBA. I learned a few practical things in these 2 years, but most importantly discovered Vanguard while doing a HBS case study. There were other benefits to the education, but learning about Vanguard has been the most valuable lesson learned during that time.
5. Read the MND. I didn't even fully comprehend what compounding could make possible in one's lifetime. This completely changed my attitude towards saving and postponing consumption.
6. After a couple of idiot financial moves in my early 20s, married a frugal woman who showed me what real saving and discipline looked like.
7. Significantly improved the family "offense" as household income tripled in past 7 years. This was accompanied by modest lifestyle increases which have helped kicked saving into high gear.
A wise man and his money are friends forever...
anon3838
Posts: 133
Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 11:54 am

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by anon3838 »

kjsammy wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:32 pm
mptfan wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:46 am
pennywise wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:06 am Growing up, although she didn't seem to mind, I recall watching my mother's complete financial dependence on my father. That triggered a deep determination I would never live like that. My dad was a pretty good provider (military officer) but in a household with a single income and a large family I often was told no when I wanted something that cost money he didn't want to or couldn't afford to spend. And his word was the deciding one; my mother had no say other than her powers of persuasion.
To each his own. I see nothing wrong with a wife being financially dependent on her husband and the husband's word being the deciding one, that is how it was for thousands of years of human history and there are people who continue to choose to live that way today. And as far as children being told "no" when they want something that the family could not afford, I don't see anything wrong with that either, that is how I was raised and I think it helps to build character and an appreciation that you cannot have everything you want and you learn to better appreciate the things you do have.

Ugh. Financial dependancy is terrible. Take a pause and think of all the women you know who put up with crap because they are dependant. Who allow mistreatment of a child because they are dependant. Who say nothing when the king of the castle yammers on without a filter on holidays or any day. They will sometimes share the same stupid opinions because it is easier.
Think of the women you knew/know that made a bad decision when they were young - who to marry - and paid for it for decades, maybe for the rest of their lives.
It still goes on though less than in the past.
The ending of this thousands of years old tradition is why life is better now.
All of this!

I owe so much of my good fortune to the strong women (and men) who came before me demanding change, and those who had the courage to allow change (policy and law).
EnjoyIt
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by EnjoyIt »

anon3838 wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:12 pm
kjsammy wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:32 pm
mptfan wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:46 am
pennywise wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:06 am Growing up, although she didn't seem to mind, I recall watching my mother's complete financial dependence on my father. That triggered a deep determination I would never live like that. My dad was a pretty good provider (military officer) but in a household with a single income and a large family I often was told no when I wanted something that cost money he didn't want to or couldn't afford to spend. And his word was the deciding one; my mother had no say other than her powers of persuasion.
To each his own. I see nothing wrong with a wife being financially dependent on her husband and the husband's word being the deciding one, that is how it was for thousands of years of human history and there are people who continue to choose to live that way today. And as far as children being told "no" when they want something that the family could not afford, I don't see anything wrong with that either, that is how I was raised and I think it helps to build character and an appreciation that you cannot have everything you want and you learn to better appreciate the things you do have.

Ugh. Financial dependancy is terrible. Take a pause and think of all the women you know who put up with crap because they are dependant. Who allow mistreatment of a child because they are dependant. Who say nothing when the king of the castle yammers on without a filter on holidays or any day. They will sometimes share the same stupid opinions because it is easier.
Think of the women you knew/know that made a bad decision when they were young - who to marry - and paid for it for decades, maybe for the rest of their lives.
It still goes on though less than in the past.
The ending of this thousands of years old tradition is why life is better now.
All of this!

I owe so much of my good fortune to the strong women (and men) who came before me demanding change, and those who had the courage to allow change (policy and law).
Although my wife has a better life because of my finances, she would be completely fine financially without me. She does not need to work, but chooses to. I respect that immensely.

On the other hand, my mom doesn’t even know how to order something on amazon without my dad’s assistance. She doesn’t have any interest in learning. It baffles me why that is acceptable to her, but she prefers life this way.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
JediMisty
Posts: 626
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:06 am
Location: Central NJ

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by JediMisty »

FI4LIFE wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:56 pm
mptfan wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:39 pm I think some people are born frugal and others are not, it's a simple as that. Yes, nurture can have an impact, but I think nature predominates.

I know people who were raised in the same house with the same parents and yet they handle money differently. Someone who is naturally frugal and is raised with frugal parents will say "I got it from my parents," whereas someone who is naturally frugal who was raised with spendthrift parents will say "I saw how my parents spent too much and struggled with not having enough money and I vowed never to be that way."
My brother and I were raised in the same home and earn similar incomes. He can't rub two nickels together while I am a saver. I've tried to explain the importance of investing to him but he couldn't understand why he would "risk" $10000 a year just to earn $1000 at the end of the year. The compounding effects were lost in him. He is impulsive by nature, mostly to his detriment.
A common misconception about the effects of "nature vs. nuture" is that "kids raised in the same household" had the same experience. For example, my older sister had a younger sister and started school younger than I did. Because she started school at 6 years and one day, she performed poorly. This led to friction between her and my mom. My dad often supplemented her allowance and bought her treats to "make up" for the friction. OTOH I was 6 years and 6 months when I started school with an older sister who often did homework in front of me, so I had learned to read and do math from her before I started school (4 years after she did). My grades were stellar and we got extra money for good grades, so I often had more money than her despite her being older. Another reason my dad felt sorry for her and often slipped her extra money. I learned to make do with my allowance and money for good grades she learned to spend all she had to get extra gifted to her. She and I were in the same household but reenforced for opposite behavior. You can guess whose career and money management have put them in a good position to retire.
international001
Posts: 1641
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:31 pm

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by international001 »

mptfan wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:39 pm I think some people are born frugal and others are not, it's a simple as that. Yes, nurture can have an impact, but I think nature predominates.

I know people who were raised in the same house with the same parents and yet they handle money differently. Someone who is naturally frugal and is raised with frugal parents will say "I got it from my parents," whereas someone who is naturally frugal who was raised with spendthrift parents will say "I saw how my parents spent too much and struggled with not having enough money and I vowed never to be that way."
You forgot the different environment part (i.e. the influence our peers and friends can have within us).
If frugality is correlated to conscientiousness (personality trait), this usually explains about 50% of the income. Whereas parents influence explains little more than 0.
bigred77
Posts: 2042
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:53 pm

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by bigred77 »

I grew up in a household where money was scarce and I was vaguely aware my parents were always concerned about it.

I found a good job right after undergrad in 2008, at age 23, in the heart of the recession and decided I better learn all I can about money and how to manage it so it wasn’t a primary stressor for the rest of my life like it was for my parents. I’m good at math, so I figured out how powerful investing money in your 20s can be. I’ve been investing 25%-33% each year ever since.

Money is still a stressor in my life, but I know I don’t have to worry about feeding my family or putting a roof over everyone’s head. That peace of mind is priceless.
pennywise
Posts: 819
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 6:22 am

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by pennywise »

Dottie57 wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:58 am I grew up in a home where dad worked and mom stayed at home to raise the kids. They were equal financial partners. Mom did the daily finances and dad planned long term /retirement finances. Both had to say “ok” to big purchases. It worked well. Different roles but equal footing worked well .
And what would have happened had your father decided he no longer wanted to be married to your mother? In that case do you truly believe they were on an equal footing? You think your mom could have told him "no honey, that doesn't work for me so we won't be getting divorced and you'll continue to support me fully".

Right, me either. The cold hard reality is that in the end it doesn't matter who does the daily finances and who plans long term. There's only one name on a paycheck and as long as it was your father's while your mother earned nothing herself, then he had all the fiscal power in the relationship.
EnjoyIt
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by EnjoyIt »

pennywise wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:48 pm
Dottie57 wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:58 am I grew up in a home where dad worked and mom stayed at home to raise the kids. They were equal financial partners. Mom did the daily finances and dad planned long term /retirement finances. Both had to say “ok” to big purchases. It worked well. Different roles but equal footing worked well .
And what would have happened had your father decided he no longer wanted to be married to your mother? In that case do you truly believe they were on an equal footing? You think your mom could have told him "no honey, that doesn't work for me so we won't be getting divorced and you'll continue to support me fully".

Right, me either. The cold hard reality is that in the end it doesn't matter who does the daily finances and who plans long term. There's only one name on a paycheck and as long as it was your father's while your mother earned nothing herself, then he had all the fiscal power in the relationship.
Although your point is very real in many people's lives, it is not always true. I have seen many a families where the non working spouse had all the control in the relationship.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
pennywise
Posts: 819
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 6:22 am

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by pennywise »

EnjoyIt wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:56 pm
pennywise wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:48 pm
And what would have happened had your father decided he no longer wanted to be married to your mother? In that case do you truly believe they were on an equal footing? You think your mom could have told him "no honey, that doesn't work for me so we won't be getting divorced and you'll continue to support me fully".

Right, me either. The cold hard reality is that in the end it doesn't matter who does the daily finances and who plans long term. There's only one name on a paycheck and as long as it was your father's while your mother earned nothing herself, then he had all the fiscal power in the relationship.
Although your point is very real in many people's lives, it is not always true. I have seen many a families where the non working spouse had all the control in the relationship.
At the risk of derailing a conversation, yes WITHIN a functional marriage a non-earning spouse may have as many levels of financial control as are granted to her by a husband who chooses to do so-again, nobody gets a Mr and Mrs paycheck.

My point is and was that if/when a marriage between one earning and one non earning spouse founders, the spouse without income is vulnerable because she will no longer have any control over that income. In fact she has no control as to whether or not the earner spouse chooses to sever the financially supportive relationship.

Whatever balance of control works in a marriage is and should be mutually agreed upon between two people as is their prerogative. I simply am pointing out the reality of the financial situation which is that it is an inherently unequal partnership. Doesn't mean every wife should be sure she has a full time job and earns as much as the mr. But let's not fool ourselves that financial dependence isn't a risk for a woman.

That is a reality regardless of whether or not one chooses to cloak it in layers of emotion.
Smawink
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:02 pm

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by Smawink »

I certainly didn’t want to generalize about relationships on the whole. But my experience has been that even though I have a better education than my partner, understood his real estate transactions as well as him, advised his partnership on employee benefits and tax law, and helped navigate the social services environment his elderly parents found themselves in as well as the medical world his unfortunate late son was thrown into, I was not a decisionmaker because I earn less. There’s no guarantee that relationships endure. It was my realization of the fragility of my position as someone who was only ancillary to a high income and nw partner that spurred my desire to save, rather than simply sacrifice for someone else. Of course, if someone else finds she has a different dynamic in her relationship, it would be different.
mptfan
Posts: 6258
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:58 am

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by mptfan »

pennywise wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:48 pm Whatever balance of control works in a marriage is and should be mutually agreed upon between two people as is their prerogative.
Exactly. Unfortunately there seems to be a tendency on this forum to criticize relationships where the husband has the control as somehow inferior to other relationship dynamics and it is sometimes stated or implied that such a dynamic is backwards and old fashioned and that enlightened people don't do that anymore. That is a judgmental view.
Dottie57
Posts: 9313
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm
Location: Earth Northern Hemisphere

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by Dottie57 »

pennywise wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:48 pm
Dottie57 wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:58 am I grew up in a home where dad worked and mom stayed at home to raise the kids. They were equal financial partners. Mom did the daily finances and dad planned long term /retirement finances. Both had to say “ok” to big purchases. It worked well. Different roles but equal footing worked well .
And what would have happened had your father decided he no longer wanted to be married to your mother? In that case do you truly believe they were on an equal footing? You think your mom could have told him "no honey, that doesn't work for me so we won't be getting divorced and you'll continue to support me fully".

Right, me either. The cold hard reality is that in the end it doesn't matter who does the daily finances and who plans long term. There's only one name on a paycheck and as long as it was your father's while your mother earned nothing herself, then he had all the fiscal power in the relationship.
My point to mptfan is that the man shouldn’t be the ruler in the home. More cooperation and team work is necessary. Sorry you didn’t have better examples of what a good marriage can be. I did.
bluebolt
Posts: 1264
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:01 am

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by bluebolt »

mptfan wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:46 am
pennywise wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:06 am Growing up, although she didn't seem to mind, I recall watching my mother's complete financial dependence on my father. That triggered a deep determination I would never live like that. My dad was a pretty good provider (military officer) but in a household with a single income and a large family I often was told no when I wanted something that cost money he didn't want to or couldn't afford to spend. And his word was the deciding one; my mother had no say other than her powers of persuasion.
To each his own. I see nothing wrong with a wife being financially dependent on her husband and the husband's word being the deciding one, that is how it was for thousands of years of human history and there are people who continue to choose to live that way today. And as far as children being told "no" when they want something that the family could not afford, I don't see anything wrong with that either, that is how I was raised and I think it helps to build character and an appreciation that you cannot have everything you want and you learn to better appreciate the things you do have.
I have witnessed many situations like this where the couple splits up. The wife, with no work experience and no marketable skills is left with a life that is a constant challenge. The husband does fine. So, sure, if it is mutually agreed and works out, it's fine. But it's a terrible position to be in as a woman if things don't work out.
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 67165
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: To what do you owe your ability to forego spending now and save for your future?

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread has run its course and is locked (derailed on relationship issues). See: Acceptable Topics and Subforum Guidelines
This is an investing and personal finance forum. We also maintain a subforum that allow our members to discuss consumer goods and services and recreational activities. Anything else is considered "Off Topic" and is not acceptable on this forum.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
Locked