For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

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JD2775
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For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by JD2775 »

where did you go?

I started late in tech (about 37 years old) and am currently 44 years old and I have a feeling I won't be doing this kind of work at 60-65. I want to plan some exit strategy for sometime mid-50's (if its not "planned" for me before than). Not sure where I would look though, and I am pretty sure wherever I went I would take a pay cut. That is why I am saving as much as I can in these current years.

I am just curious what others have transitioned into from the tech industry...
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JoeRetire
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by JoeRetire »

I retired after over 40 years in the "tech industry".
Last edited by JoeRetire on Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JD2775
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by JD2775 »

JoeRetire wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:43 pm I retired.
Well, yea. That would be the ideal option :)
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cheese_breath
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by cheese_breath »

JoeRetire wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:43 pm I retired.
+1
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JoeRetire
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by JoeRetire »

JD2775 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:30 pmI have a feeling I won't be doing this kind of work at 60-65.
Why not?
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HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

In my experience, working in a non-tech company is the same as working in a tech company, you just get paid less.
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JD2775
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by JD2775 »

JoeRetire wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:45 pm
JD2775 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:30 pmI have a feeling I won't be doing this kind of work at 60-65.
Why not?
Ageism, outsourcing etc. Maybe its an unfounded concern...
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by bloom2708 »

I went from tech at a tech company to finance at the same tech company.

It seems to have slowed my eventual exodus from the up or out development area. Time will tell. I don't want to stay too long.
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JoeRetire
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by JoeRetire »

JD2775 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:49 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:45 pm
JD2775 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:30 pmI have a feeling I won't be doing this kind of work at 60-65.
Why not?
Ageism, outsourcing etc. Maybe its an unfounded concern...
(shrug) Depends on your locale, your abilities, your job level, and the specifics of the domain in which you work.

I retired at 60.5 and consulted part time until older than 62 at the same company. I could have remained as long as I chose to do so.
Even after I fully retired, I got plenty of calls from recruiters.

I'm not saying that ageism doesn't exist. Obviously outsourcing does exist.
Still there are plenty of tech jobs going unfilled each year. I never found my age to be a hindrance.
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Bogle7
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by Bogle7 »

Worked in tech from 1967 to 2019 when I finally said (at age 70+): I have enough FU money, goodbye.
But, the last 22 years were working 1099 for a number of customers who did not care about age.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by Monsterflockster »

JD2775 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:30 pm where did you go?

I started late in tech (about 37 years old) and am currently 44 years old and I have a feeling I won't be doing this kind of work at 60-65. I want to plan some exit strategy for sometime mid-50's (if its not "planned" for me before than). Not sure where I would look though, and I am pretty sure wherever I went I would take a pay cut. That is why I am saving as much as I can in these current years.

I am just curious what others have transitioned into from the tech industry...
My wife was in tech in Silicon Valley until our first child. She was at home with the kids but now they are older she is working at the local elementary and enjoys it.
Last edited by Monsterflockster on Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JD2775
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by JD2775 »

Bogle7 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:02 pm Worked in tech from 1967 to 2019 when I finally said (at age 70+): I have enough FU money, goodbye.
But, the last 22 years were working 1099 for a number of customers who did not care about age.
Yea, the contracting thing definitely interests me, and I have heard the exact same thing about age not being relevant in that status.
furwut
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by furwut »

Retired at age 51. Yes, the money was good. But past age 40 your peers start referring to you as “the old man”. The career path is to get into management by age 40 or become an expert niche consultant.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by Dottie57 »

Worked as a software developer from 1982 to 2018. Voluntary Separation. Retired and happy I did. It was time.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by CurlyDave »

JD2775 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:09 pm
Bogle7 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:02 pm Worked in tech from 1967 to 2019 when I finally said (at age 70+): I have enough FU money, goodbye.
But, the last 22 years were working 1099 for a number of customers who did not care about age.
Yea, the contracting thing definitely interests me, and I have heard the exact same thing about age not being relevant in that status.
If you are in CA, or if the company is in CA, there is a new law which is going to severely limit contracting starting in 2020.

You might want to look into this before you leap. There are new court cases challenging the law being filed every week, so the issue can best be described as "unsettled".
Conch55
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by Conch55 »

Just under 30 years in tech with the first dozen years as a software developer. I changed over to system admin work after that and stayed pretty much in that area until I voluntarily left the job just before turning 60. I think the mid career change helped me stay interested longer. I worked as a defense contractor and didn't see much age discrimination. I also didn't see the higher salaries mentioned sometimes on this forum.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by bluelight »

I worked in tech from 1975 to spring 2019. I had 2 periods of unemployment during that time. The first was voluntary in the early 80's to stay home with my child, the 2nd was a layoff in 2011 that lasted 13 months.

I retired this year because I just couldn't stand the BS from management anymore. I loved what I did and could have continued to work for many years, age is not a factor in tech. It was hard to walk away from the money, but I don't regret it. Even though I changed my LinkedIn profile to retired, I still receive emails and messages with job offers. I prefer to spend my days playing with my grandchildren.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by fortunefavored »

I haven't pulled the trigger yet (OMY!) but I had similar thoughts 10 years ago and pretty much every year since.

I flipped back and forth between "find another job" and "keep grinding it out" - every time I did the math, "grinding it out" just made more sense. Especially if you're still on an upward trajectory in tech - it isn't slowing down any time soon. The monopolies are consolidating their positions to become unassailable and they can afford to keep paying more and more money.

Even "tech adjacent" is a huge pay cut.

Plan for your early retirement, collect as much money as possible while the gettin' is good.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by SimonJester »

JD2775 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:49 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:45 pm
JD2775 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:30 pmI have a feeling I won't be doing this kind of work at 60-65.
Why not?
Ageism, outsourcing etc. Maybe its an unfounded concern...
Not unfounded, seeing a BIG shift to outsourcing from all the mega corps of their tech / IT industry. Lots of things moving to the cloud aka outsourcing... I personally believe almost all IT will be outsourced in the next 5 years.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by furwut »

SimonJester wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:31 pm
JD2775 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:49 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:45 pm
JD2775 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:30 pmI have a feeling I won't be doing this kind of work at 60-65.
Why not?
Ageism, outsourcing etc. Maybe its an unfounded concern...
Not unfounded, seeing a BIG shift to outsourcing from all the mega corps of their tech / IT industry. Lots of things moving to the cloud aka outsourcing... I personally believe almost all IT will be outsourced in the next 5 years.
In my experience Ageism wasn’t a factor at keeping a job but it was at getting a new one.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by DrGoguma »

I worked as a software developer from 1998 - 2003. I realized the hours probably weren't sustainable and the work wasn't very interesting, so I went back to grad school and got a PhD (2009). Now I work as a CS researcher in a role where I am likely to eventually retire. I don't think I would suggest this path to anyone -- the lost earnings are quite a bit of money, but I'm not limited in the areas I can live (most any university town) and think I can make this work for the 10 or so years it will take me to have enough in the bank to retire if I choose. The work is mostly technical, though its becoming slightly more strategic rather than pure technology at the moment -- I'm not sure how I feel about that, but I think the choice of what I do is entirely up to me -- which is nice.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by palaheel »

Software development is a young man's game. (Or young woman's....)

I graduated in '76, worked for a couple of years, and went to grad school for an MS. I worked for mega-corp for almost 28, when I was laid off in '09 at age 55, but with a pension. Those last few years were a trial; I hated every minute of it, but wanted the pension.

I then wound up teaching at a community college. I guess that's semi-leaving--I left the industry, but not the discipline.

Age discrimination is real, but the intensity fluctuates with the economy. I could probably get a job now, but in 2009 at 55, no way.

If I got a job in the current environment, would I want it? I have no desire to compete with 26 year olds who work 60 hours a week because they have no life.

With the pension and a great mega-corp 401(k) plan, I have been able to just tread water for the last 10 years and expect to retire for good at the start of 2021.

I love the discipline. I don't love the industry. If you can use software development to launch into something else that people actually retire from, that would be great.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by GerryL »

I was in tech and took a voluntary separation offer to retire in 2014, a year earlier than planned.
A year later the separation offers were involuntary and blatantly ageist. (Cripes, the then-ceo even said as much in public.) A law suit is still underway, from what I understand.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by carolinaman »

I retired after spending 44 years in IT. However, the last 30 years were in senior IT management. I was senior IT exec for a large govt agency my last 22 years. Most of my peers in other govts that I networked with were fired during that time. Job security was not great but somehow I survived, and actually enjoyed what I did.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

JD2775 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:30 pm where did you go?

I started late in tech (about 37 years old) and am currently 44 years old and I have a feeling I won't be doing this kind of work at 60-65. I want to plan some exit strategy for sometime mid-50's (if its not "planned" for me before than). Not sure where I would look though, and I am pretty sure wherever I went I would take a pay cut. That is why I am saving as much as I can in these current years.

I am just curious what others have transitioned into from the tech industry...
I plan to quit sometime this year and go into financial planning as a part-time early retirement gig (I'm 35, with small children, they can't see me lounge around, they need to still see the work ethic).

this last year, i sort of forced the situation into getting them to allow me to work part-time so that I could take the entire CFP curriculum.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by mrspock »

If you save, I see no reason to work to 65. I’m FI now, and my exit plan is retirement in another few years in my mid 40s. I’ll transition to remote and/or part-time a couple years before that.

My advice is to save save save. I saved around 75-80% of my net salary, lived off the rest.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by thursdaysd »

I was a techie at a megacorp for 30 years. I retired the day I hit 30 years, but I had a pension and retiree medical. I also did some part time contract work for a few years. Very glad I could quit when I did, the work was no longer fun and my memory was not as good as it had been.
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JoeRetire
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by JoeRetire »

SimonJester wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:31 pmLots of things moving to the cloud aka outsourcing...
Moving things to the cloud is not the same as outsourcing, unless your job somehow involved physically touching/moving/cleaning/etc servers.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by edgeagg »

Over 30 years at megacorps at F****G+MS, got tired of politics and did the startup thing. Sold out, vested quietly for a year :beer and now doing another one. I've been successful by not being ultra-specialized and keeping coding skills up.

Had a weird experience when we got acquired - had the usual useless meeting with HR to welcome me in to acquiring company. HR person asked me what title I wanted - when I said that I preferred SDE (Software Development Engineer) - her reaction was interesting to say the least - it was that given your age I thought you'd be a manager :oops: . Anyway, I decided not to make anything of it since I just didn't see any point other than having a clueless individual lose her job. But ageism is definitely present.

This startup is the last. I don't want to roll over with a heart attack and a lot of regrets and marginal value of additional money is rapidly tending to zero given the markets we have been having.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by vitaflo »

If you're worried about it, save your money. If you work in tech, you're going to be making good money anyway. If you can become a contractor, you can get there a lot faster (more stress of getting clients, but much higher pay). I've been doing that for a decade. It's been very lucrative.

All that said, while ageism might be real, it's also real in a lot of professions if you're a "doer" and don't want to move into management. And there's always been an ebb and flow to outsourcing and back to insourcing. But the fact is that the demand for tech and tech workers is only increasing. And while a lot of tech workers talk about working at Megacorp, there are a lot of businesses of all types that need tech workers. I don't think things are as dire for older workers as many people make them out to be.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by rasputin »

I can relate to how you feel. You're probably in some stage of burnout. Thats 100% normal as the tech industry tends to push people toward burnout. I feel the same as you do even though my career has never been better. Hang in there - stay sane and sock away money so you can retire eventually.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:02 pm
SimonJester wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:31 pmLots of things moving to the cloud aka outsourcing...
Moving things to the cloud is not the same as outsourcing, unless your job somehow involved physically touching/moving/cleaning/etc servers.
Tell that to the DBAs.
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JoeRetire
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by JoeRetire »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:14 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:02 pm
SimonJester wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:31 pmLots of things moving to the cloud aka outsourcing...
Moving things to the cloud is not the same as outsourcing, unless your job somehow involved physically touching/moving/cleaning/etc servers.
Tell that to the DBAs.
You think moving systems to the cloud negatively impacts DBAs for some reason?
Sorry, that makes no sense.

Virtually everyone these days works remotely from the servers that run their systems. That includes developers, testers, sysadmins, DBAs and everyone else.

Moving your systems from the back room to the cloud doesn't change anything.

Conflating "moving things to the cloud" and "outsourcing the work" is a mistake.
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HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

JoeRetire wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:29 am
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:14 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:02 pm
SimonJester wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:31 pmLots of things moving to the cloud aka outsourcing...
Moving things to the cloud is not the same as outsourcing, unless your job somehow involved physically touching/moving/cleaning/etc servers.
Tell that to the DBAs.
You think moving systems to the cloud negatively impacts DBAs for some reason?
Sorry, that makes no sense.

Virtually everyone these days works remotely from the servers that run their systems. That includes developers, testers, sysadmins, DBAs and everyone else.

Moving your systems from the back room to the cloud doesn't change anything.

Conflating "moving things to the cloud" and "outsourcing the work" is a mistake.
If you think the shift to cloud has not reduced the job outlook for DBAs you have your head in the sand.

Here is one recent example:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=287228
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JoeRetire
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by JoeRetire »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:45 am If you think the shift to cloud has not reduced the job outlook for DBAs you have your head in the sand.

Here is one recent example:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=287228
Yup. You are conflating "shift to the cloud" with "outsourcing".

Outsourcing existed long before "the cloud".
And many companies move their systems to the cloud with no change in job responsibilities.
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bdaniel58
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by bdaniel58 »

I am a full stack Java web developer. I have been in software my entire career and am now 60.5 years old. I still love the work but am getting tired of the drive. Our financial plans allow me to retire in 15 months but I will probably go one extra year just to have some extra cushion because healthcare is so unsettled.

I feel secure in my position and do interesting work. I have proven myself so I am given projects of several months in length. I am given a lot of leeway to get the job done without little overhead process/reporting. I have a proven track record.

The biggest risk to my job security is a takeover. New owners often want to trim expenses by cutting people. The latest buyout happened a few months ago and they have made it clear they want to add more people and are even doing salary reviews to make sure we are being paid enough. Some people have gotten raises.

Not all tech jobs are high stress. I joke about being the "old guy".

I think I am am safe until I retire.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by catlady »

JoeRetire wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:29 am
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:14 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:02 pm
SimonJester wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:31 pmLots of things moving to the cloud aka outsourcing...
Moving things to the cloud is not the same as outsourcing, unless your job somehow involved physically touching/moving/cleaning/etc servers.
Tell that to the DBAs.
You think moving systems to the cloud negatively impacts DBAs for some reason?
Sorry, that makes no sense.

Virtually everyone these days works remotely from the servers that run their systems. That includes developers, testers, sysadmins, DBAs and everyone else.

Moving your systems from the back room to the cloud doesn't change anything.

Conflating "moving things to the cloud" and "outsourcing the work" is a mistake.
The cloud offers hosted database solutions (E.g. Amazon RDS) which handles a lot of what DBAs are generally doing (install, configuration, backups, scaling). While most large companies will still require some DBAs to help with things like query optimization and performance tuning, I’d guess the required headcount for DBAs will drop significantly for companies that embrace cloud hosted solutions.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by SimonJester »

catlady wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:39 am
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:29 am
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:14 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:02 pm
SimonJester wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:31 pmLots of things moving to the cloud aka outsourcing...
Moving things to the cloud is not the same as outsourcing, unless your job somehow involved physically touching/moving/cleaning/etc servers.
Tell that to the DBAs.
You think moving systems to the cloud negatively impacts DBAs for some reason?
Sorry, that makes no sense.

Virtually everyone these days works remotely from the servers that run their systems. That includes developers, testers, sysadmins, DBAs and everyone else.

Moving your systems from the back room to the cloud doesn't change anything.

Conflating "moving things to the cloud" and "outsourcing the work" is a mistake.
The cloud offers hosted database solutions (E.g. Amazon RDS) which handles a lot of what DBAs are generally doing (install, configuration, backups, scaling). While most large companies will still require some DBAs to help with things like query optimization and performance tuning, I’d guess the required headcount for DBAs will drop significantly for companies that embrace cloud hosted solutions.
Its not just DBAs, Voice, Networking, Programming, Program Management, system architecture and design, End user Computing... The C level is being bombarded by pitches from the big the cloud providers on how they can do all of this better cheaper faster (with over seas labor).

As I said before I believe in the next 5 years the majority of IT will be outsourced...
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HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

SimonJester wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:53 am
catlady wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:39 am
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:29 am
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:14 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:02 pm
Moving things to the cloud is not the same as outsourcing, unless your job somehow involved physically touching/moving/cleaning/etc servers.
Tell that to the DBAs.
You think moving systems to the cloud negatively impacts DBAs for some reason?
Sorry, that makes no sense.

Virtually everyone these days works remotely from the servers that run their systems. That includes developers, testers, sysadmins, DBAs and everyone else.

Moving your systems from the back room to the cloud doesn't change anything.

Conflating "moving things to the cloud" and "outsourcing the work" is a mistake.
The cloud offers hosted database solutions (E.g. Amazon RDS) which handles a lot of what DBAs are generally doing (install, configuration, backups, scaling). While most large companies will still require some DBAs to help with things like query optimization and performance tuning, I’d guess the required headcount for DBAs will drop significantly for companies that embrace cloud hosted solutions.
Its not just DBAs, Voice, Networking, Programming, Program Management, system architecture and design, End user Computing... The C level is being bombarded by pitches from the big the cloud providers on how they can do all of this better cheaper faster (with over seas labor).

As I said before I believe in the next 5 years the majority of IT will be outsourced...
Exactly.

Most companies used to have closets full of PBX hardware for “landline” phones.

Now most every company is using cloud-based telephony.

I wonder what happened to the phone closet techs?
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by stoptothink »

vitaflo wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:40 pm

All that said, while ageism might be real, it's also real in a lot of professions if you're a "doer" and don't want to move into management.
Just my +1: my mom is 61, my FIL is 64, my best hiking/snow shoeing buddy is 56, they all work in tech and have experienced zero of this supposed "ageism". In fact, my FIL (sales) has been laid off/fired 3x in the past 4yrs (because he is the epitome of a not-go getter, he's admittedly been the lowest producer everywhere he has been) and has had no issues whatsoever getting different tech companies to give him a shot. My mom's (project management) last employer shut their doors 2yrs ago and she had 4 separate offers before her last day. My buddy (a developer) has jumped employers for more money twice in the 5yrs I've known him. The long hours that some of these companies require is a young man's game, but that's a different story.
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Kenkat
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by Kenkat »

SimonJester wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:53 am
catlady wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:39 am
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:29 am
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:14 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:02 pm
Moving things to the cloud is not the same as outsourcing, unless your job somehow involved physically touching/moving/cleaning/etc servers.
Tell that to the DBAs.
You think moving systems to the cloud negatively impacts DBAs for some reason?
Sorry, that makes no sense.

Virtually everyone these days works remotely from the servers that run their systems. That includes developers, testers, sysadmins, DBAs and everyone else.

Moving your systems from the back room to the cloud doesn't change anything.

Conflating "moving things to the cloud" and "outsourcing the work" is a mistake.
The cloud offers hosted database solutions (E.g. Amazon RDS) which handles a lot of what DBAs are generally doing (install, configuration, backups, scaling). While most large companies will still require some DBAs to help with things like query optimization and performance tuning, I’d guess the required headcount for DBAs will drop significantly for companies that embrace cloud hosted solutions.
Its not just DBAs, Voice, Networking, Programming, Program Management, system architecture and design, End user Computing... The C level is being bombarded by pitches from the big the cloud providers on how they can do all of this better cheaper faster (with over seas labor).

As I said before I believe in the next 5 years the majority of IT will be outsourced...
If you are a one trick pony in IT, you are eventually likely to find yourself in trouble.

If you are an Oracle DBA and your company decides to move stuff to AWS (Amazon), they will still need DBAs; they will just need Amazon RDS, Aurora or Redshift DBAs. You better be nimble and start learning these technologies before all the expensive Oracle databases get replaced (or find a new job at a place where Oracle DBs won’t go away).

I knew several Cobol programmers who couldn’t find jobs after Y2K wound down. These were entry level, tell me what to code type people. One now works as a call center rep for a bank, another is a mortgage processor for Tata outsourcing. When Cobol started to dry up, they were stuck. Others who were more skilled either stuck with Cobol but as a senior level, I know how this thing works inside an out type person or moved on to new technologies - web and mobile, automated testing, whatever. And now as the Cobol programmers start to retire, there’s new demand for that skill.

The thing I have found with outsourcing is that somebody still needs to understand the business problems to be solved. Companies that just outsourced everything found out that model was really difficult to pull off. Companies that world source seem to have much better luck in my opinion. I’ve worked with many smart people from India, Latvia, Ukraine, England, Ireland, etc. A team made up of both onshore and offshore people can be really effective once everyone gets into a working cadence. But if you want to be a well paid onshore person, you’ve got to bring some skills - the tell me what to do and I’ll do it jobs never last in my experience.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by Watty »

JD2775 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:49 pm Ageism, outsourcing etc. Maybe its an unfounded concern...
"tech industry" is way too wide a term since it includes very different jobs like Silicon Valley startups to fortune 500 IT departments.

I looked into the status of what is going on with outsourcing a few years ago when my son switched college majors to Computer Science. Overall outsourcing of computer jobs overseas is not a big deal because the total number of computer jobs is growing much faster than jobs were being outsourced overseas. That is still obviously bad for you if your specific job is moved overseas but it is not like outsourcing is causing an overall reduction in the number of tech jobs.

At least in my experience whenever there are layoffs that often hits the older employees but I would suspect that this is often because they are the people that have been with the same company in the same job for 10 or more years and may be making a salary at the top of their pay grade. They can be the often be replaced by people who are at the bottom of the pay grade or in a lower pay grade. A 35 year old who has been in the same job for ten plus years is likely also at a high risk of being laid off the next time there is a layoff.

One thing to watch out for at any age is that you don't stay in the same job too long, even if you stay with the same company you might be able to change to a new position which is essentially a new job.

A few years ago I retired out of a large (100+ people) corporate IT department just before I turned 59. I was the very first person to voluntarily retire from that IT department. Over the years many older workers had been laid off but usually it was pretty clear that they were underperforming or were known to have major difference with upper management so the people that were laid off were usually not any big surprises. During some mergers I also saw a number of older workers choose to take a severance package when that was an option.

This is not to say that ageism not a significant factor in tech jobs but at least from what I have seen it is most prevalent when it comes to getting interviews and getting hired in your next job so you might focus on that and try to have a strong network that can help you get your next job.

It is also important to realize that one reason that you do not see a lot of older tech workers is that a tech worker that is 60 today would likely started their career in the 1980s. Back then and up through the early 1990s there were not nearly the number of tech workers that there are today. Before 1980 less than 10,000 a year got Computer degrees each year. Now about over 70,000 people a year get computer degrees and a lot of people get other degrees or training to get into a technology field.

https://cs.stanford.edu/people/eroberts/CSCapacity/

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d18 ... 322.10.asp

In the early 2000's a lot of technology workers also lost their jobs and moved on to other fields when the dot com bust hit and equally importantly all the Y2K projects wound down. These hit at about the same time and many people that graduated with things like Computer Science degrees had a very hard time finding any job in their field.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by dknightd »

JD2775 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:44 pm Well, yea. That would be the ideal option :)
That should be your plan, unless you have something you'd prefer to do.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by watchnerd »

I work for one of the big cloud providers.

The question for me is at what point is the optimum time for me to switch over to the AI side of the business. Right now, the revenue streams are still in the early stages, but they're growing substantially. Riding that wave might be the last one for me to ride before I move to the metaphorical beach.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by greg24 »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:57 amI wonder what happened to the phone closet techs?
Don't allow yourself to become a "phone closet tech". Be a generalist. Have lots of skills. When they shut down the phone closet, your work just transitions to whatever else is the current IT headache. There always seems to be an IT headache that needs fixing.

Ageism seems to primarily exist in the "tech industry", or for a giant MegaCorp that wants to outsource everything.

Getting a job at a small- or mid-sized company that isn't focused on "tech" is a decent idea. Working at a university is another good place to be.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by kobbiemandd »

Retired after 46 years. Was feeling a little burned after 26, moved into the government sector (law enforcement) for the last 20 years and loved it. There are so many opportunities in the tech field to choose from, IMO. If one isn't your thing, maybe explore other areas.

~ Tom
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by JoeRetire »

catlady wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:39 am
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:29 am
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:14 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:02 pm
SimonJester wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:31 pmLots of things moving to the cloud aka outsourcing...
Moving things to the cloud is not the same as outsourcing, unless your job somehow involved physically touching/moving/cleaning/etc servers.
Tell that to the DBAs.
You think moving systems to the cloud negatively impacts DBAs for some reason?
Sorry, that makes no sense.

Virtually everyone these days works remotely from the servers that run their systems. That includes developers, testers, sysadmins, DBAs and everyone else.

Moving your systems from the back room to the cloud doesn't change anything.

Conflating "moving things to the cloud" and "outsourcing the work" is a mistake.
The cloud offers hosted database solutions (E.g. Amazon RDS) which handles a lot of what DBAs are generally doing (install, configuration, backups, scaling). While most large companies will still require some DBAs to help with things like query optimization and performance tuning, I’d guess the required headcount for DBAs will drop significantly for companies that embrace cloud hosted solutions.
The cloud also offers systems without database solutions.

Clearly, a company can choose to outsource anything they like. They always could. A company still can choose to develop and support their applications and databases inhouse, while moving the systems themselves to the cloud. Conversely, a company could decide they don't want any part of the application business at all and outsource all of the development, DBA work, and support. The outsourcing company may or may not put the systems in the cloud.

But the outsourcing choice is different than the "move to the cloud" choice. The latter does not imply the former.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by Watty »

JoeRetire wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:59 pm But the outsourcing choice is different than the "move to the cloud" choice. The latter does not imply the former.
Outsourcing to a US company and an overseas company is also much different, at least for as far as the overall impact on the US job tech market.
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

JoeRetire wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:59 pm
catlady wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:39 am
JoeRetire wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:29 am
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:14 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:02 pm
Moving things to the cloud is not the same as outsourcing, unless your job somehow involved physically touching/moving/cleaning/etc servers.
Tell that to the DBAs.
You think moving systems to the cloud negatively impacts DBAs for some reason?
Sorry, that makes no sense.

Virtually everyone these days works remotely from the servers that run their systems. That includes developers, testers, sysadmins, DBAs and everyone else.

Moving your systems from the back room to the cloud doesn't change anything.

Conflating "moving things to the cloud" and "outsourcing the work" is a mistake.
The cloud offers hosted database solutions (E.g. Amazon RDS) which handles a lot of what DBAs are generally doing (install, configuration, backups, scaling). While most large companies will still require some DBAs to help with things like query optimization and performance tuning, I’d guess the required headcount for DBAs will drop significantly for companies that embrace cloud hosted solutions.
The cloud also offers systems without database solutions.

Clearly, a company can choose to outsource anything they like. They always could. A company still can choose to develop and support their applications and databases inhouse, while moving the systems themselves to the cloud. Conversely, a company could decide they don't want any part of the application business at all and outsource all of the development, DBA work, and support. The outsourcing company may or may not put the systems in the cloud.

But the outsourcing choice is different than the "move to the cloud" choice. The latter does not imply the former.
For most cloud services there is an efficiency gain that translates into less internal labor required. That is in fact one of the selling points of moving to the cloud.

Whether the company decides to redeploy that labor elsewhere or lay them off is a choice they can make.
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greg24
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Re: For those who got out of tech industry (voluntarily or involuntarily)..

Post by greg24 »

These cloud service providers have to have DBAs and other technicians to run the cloud services.

Economies of scale means they may get by with fewer bodies per database or application, but the growth of applications and databases is showing no signs of slowing down.
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