16 Weeks Paternity Leave

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Kaizen Soze
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16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by Kaizen Soze » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:01 pm

My wife and I are having our first child in a couple months. I'm having a tough time deciding how much paternity leave to take. I work for a large-sized company and my paternity leave benefit is 16 weeks paid. All time must be taken in one chunk. A few years ago our benefits got revamped so there's still a corporate culture shift taking place (the previous benefit was 2 weeks paid).

I know 4 people that have taken paternity leave since the benefit update. 2 took the full 16 weeks, 1 took 4 weeks, and 1 took 2 weeks.

A few months ago, before we knew my wife is pregnant, I requested a promotion that was denied. Senior management provided valid reasons and have since nominated me for several internal appointments to help further my career. They also mentioned they'll request a compensation increase during the year-end review cycle, amount unknown.

There are existing threads that indicate taking more than a month off is a bad idea since your responsibilities have to be fully taken over and you lose job security.
- My main question is, does this opinion change if it's a paid benefit?
- Should my request for a promotion a few months ago factor into the decision? To be quite honest, now that I'm becoming a parent I'd be comfortable taking the 16 weeks if the consequence was career stagnation, assuming I maintain job security. I'm pleased with my current work/life balance and the next promotion would negatively change that balance. I also don't want to contribute to the slow pace of the corporate culture shift by taking less than the full benefit.
- When should I tell the company we're having a child?

Thanks in advance,
Kaizen Soze

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tainted-meat
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by tainted-meat » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:07 pm

I would take the whole 16 weeks and get refreshed / revamped, enjoy the new baby, and work on some skills that were provided by management feedback. Taking that time off will change your perspective on things for the better (greater appreciation for the small things/new baby/family). When you go back to work your mind will be clear and you'll be energized.

magicrat
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by magicrat » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:09 pm

Depending on you, your reputation, your boss/department, and the corporate culture, there can be downsides to taking the full 16 weeks. It's very hard to assess that without being in your shoes though.

My company gives 10 weeks. I took 8 and deferred 2 (can take within the first year). Had our baby earlier this year and was so happy to have that time with him and my wife. So happy.

From your description you sound fine with where you are at work and like the type of person who wants to put family first. If you decide to take the full 16 weeks, I can almost assure you that you will not regret it. Jobs come and go. You will only have this time once.

London
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by London » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:18 pm

There are no promises. The company’s official stance will certainty be one of no repercussions. But it’s human nature to pay more attention to the people who are there constantly.

That said, I would take the 10 weeks and not care. But I would expect it to have an impact.

mervinj7
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by mervinj7 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:19 pm

magicrat wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:09 pm
From your description you sound fine with where you are at work and like the type of person who wants to put family first. If you decide to take the full 16 weeks, I can almost assure you that you will not regret it. Jobs come and go. You will only have this time once.
+1 Take the the full 16 weeks. Enjoy the time with your baby. If your job punishes you for taking paid time off as per official company policy, then it's time to find a new job.

oldfatguy
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by oldfatguy » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:21 pm

I would take every last hour of available leave - particularly paid leave.

ETA: I would probably give about 3 months notice if you are planning to use a significant amount of leave.

Sam1
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by Sam1 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:27 pm

8-10 weeks can be a good amount to use as 8 weeks is the medically defined length of time for a woman to recover from the delivery. Makes sense you’d want to be home for the 8 weeks following birth.

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Kaizen Soze
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by Kaizen Soze » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:40 pm

Thanks for the replies. If it adds anything to the conversation, I'd plan on taking 2 weeks vacation when the baby is born and starting paternity leave about 2 months after that. My wife will get the first 10 weeks off. I'll have 35 vacation days for 2020 so I'd still be able take a week off here and there.

mervinj7
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by mervinj7 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:42 pm

Kaizen Soze wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:40 pm
Thanks for the replies. If it adds anything to the conversation, I'd plan on taking 2 weeks vacation when the baby is born and starting paternity leave about 2 months after that. My wife will get the first 10 weeks off. I'll have 35 vacation days for 2020 so I'd still be able take a week off here and there.
That sounds like a great idea. Taking 4 months concurrently with your wife is not a productive use of your leave. 2 weeks in the beginning followed by 8-14 weeks once she goes back to work extends the length of time you can keep your baby home (and out of daycare).

Thegame14
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by Thegame14 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:43 pm

my company just started diversity and equity and had no parental time off for fathers. I complained to the board, and they added 2 weeks paid paternity, but it didn't take effect until after my son was born, so I took 7 PTO days, I wanted to take more but boss said it was a "bad time of the year" to be taking extended time off.

oldfatguy
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by oldfatguy » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:46 pm

Thegame14 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:43 pm
my company just started diversity and equity and had no parental time off for fathers. I complained to the board, and they added 2 weeks paid paternity, but it didn't take effect until after my son was born, so I took 7 PTO days, I wanted to take more but boss said it was a "bad time of the year" to be taking extended time off.
Were you not eligible for FMLA?

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RickBoglehead
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by RickBoglehead » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:49 pm

No one knows your company, nor how they'll react to you being gone for 16 weeks. A small company, losing a key person for 4 months, would likely notice it a lot more than a big company.

I can't help but think that if you take this leave prior to your promotion that a) it would be delayed by 4 months and b) it would impact the decision making of whether you get the promotion or not. Just human nature.

This is a personal decision that you'll have to weigh.
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Thegame14
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by Thegame14 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:50 pm

oldfatguy wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:46 pm
Thegame14 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:43 pm
my company just started diversity and equity and had no parental time off for fathers. I complained to the board, and they added 2 weeks paid paternity, but it didn't take effect until after my son was born, so I took 7 PTO days, I wanted to take more but boss said it was a "bad time of the year" to be taking extended time off.
Were you not eligible for FMLA?
company has less than 50 employees, also that is at 50% pay, cant have both of us at half pay for that long

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dm200
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by dm200 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:51 pm

Kaizen Soze wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:40 pm
Thanks for the replies. If it adds anything to the conversation, I'd plan on taking 2 weeks vacation when the baby is born and starting paternity leave about 2 months after that. My wife will get the first 10 weeks off. I'll have 35 vacation days for 2020 so I'd still be able take a week off here and there.
So, you do not need to start and take this paternity leave immediately or very shortly after the baby is born? Sixteen weeks fully paid paternity leave seems very, very generous indeed! Between your wife taking ten weeks and your taking up to 16 weeks - you will have "saved" many months of childcare - which tends to be more expensive for infants.

I might, informally, try to chat with coworkers who have taken paternity or maternity leave - as to how this may have affected their employment situation - and any ideas/suggestions for negating negative aspects.

Perhaps when you are out for this 16 weeks, stay in touch with the work folks, bring in the baby a few times, and become well prepared to hit the ground running when you return. Unless absolutely necessary for your wife and baby, I might shorten the initial two weeks.

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anon_investor
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by anon_investor » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:57 pm

mervinj7 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:19 pm
magicrat wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:09 pm
From your description you sound fine with where you are at work and like the type of person who wants to put family first. If you decide to take the full 16 weeks, I can almost assure you that you will not regret it. Jobs come and go. You will only have this time once.
+1 Take the the full 16 weeks. Enjoy the time with your baby. If your job punishes you for taking paid time off as per official company policy, then it's time to find a new job.
+1

Sam1
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by Sam1 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:02 pm

dm200 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:51 pm
Kaizen Soze wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:40 pm
Thanks for the replies. If it adds anything to the conversation, I'd plan on taking 2 weeks vacation when the baby is born and starting paternity leave about 2 months after that. My wife will get the first 10 weeks off. I'll have 35 vacation days for 2020 so I'd still be able take a week off here and there.
So, you do not need to start and take this paternity leave immediately or very shortly after the baby is born? Sixteen weeks fully paid paternity leave seems very, very generous indeed! Between your wife taking ten weeks and your taking up to 16 weeks - you will have "saved" many months of childcare - which tends to be more expensive for infants.

I might, informally, try to chat with coworkers who have taken paternity or maternity leave - as to how this may have affected their employment situation - and any ideas/suggestions for negating negative aspects.

Perhaps when you are out for this 16 weeks, stay in touch with the work folks, bring in the baby a few times, and become well prepared to hit the ground running when you return. Unless absolutely necessary for your wife and baby, I might shorten the initial two weeks.
I’d argue the first two weeks are the most important. If the wife ends up with a c-section, she may be unable to climb stairs and will need help lifting the baby. As you will find out, giving birth is a huge deal physically and the two weeks following it can be rough even for an easy delivery.

jbuzolich
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by jbuzolich » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:09 pm

Definitely take the full amount available in the benefit policy. You only have one chance to take that time with your child and won't get it back. There might be negative impacts or maybe not but none of us have the option to go back in time to make a different decision.

batpot
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by batpot » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:10 pm

anon_investor wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:57 pm
mervinj7 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:19 pm
magicrat wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:09 pm
From your description you sound fine with where you are at work and like the type of person who wants to put family first. If you decide to take the full 16 weeks, I can almost assure you that you will not regret it. Jobs come and go. You will only have this time once.
+1 Take the the full 16 weeks. Enjoy the time with your baby. If your job punishes you for taking paid time off as per official company policy, then it's time to find a new job.
+1
+3

The nice thing about working for a large company is you can go to another division, with a manager who respects the new corporate policy.

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Kaizen Soze
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by Kaizen Soze » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:11 pm

dm200 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:51 pm
Kaizen Soze wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:40 pm
Thanks for the replies. If it adds anything to the conversation, I'd plan on taking 2 weeks vacation when the baby is born and starting paternity leave about 2 months after that. My wife will get the first 10 weeks off. I'll have 35 vacation days for 2020 so I'd still be able take a week off here and there.
So, you do not need to start and take this paternity leave immediately or very shortly after the baby is born? Sixteen weeks fully paid paternity leave seems very, very generous indeed! Between your wife taking ten weeks and your taking up to 16 weeks - you will have "saved" many months of childcare - which tends to be more expensive for infants.

I might, informally, try to chat with coworkers who have taken paternity or maternity leave - as to how this may have affected their employment situation - and any ideas/suggestions for negating negative aspects.

Perhaps when you are out for this 16 weeks, stay in touch with the work folks, bring in the baby a few times, and become well prepared to hit the ground running when you return. Unless absolutely necessary for your wife and baby, I might shorten the initial two weeks.
I have 3 months after the baby is born to start the paternity leave. We're very fortunate that my in-laws are local, retired, and want to help. We don't have to worry about childcare for awhile.

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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:16 pm

As someone who took 12 weeks unpaid and had to invoke FMLA to do so (a director was kicking and screaming....luckily his boss was on my side), I would say to absolutely take 16 weeks. What I did and what I would recommend is that first your wife takes her leave, then you take your 16 weeks. Who knows who you'll work for in the future. Employers have zero loyalty towards employees these days, so you need to do what's best for you. Taking the leave, in my opinion is what's best for you.
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by Super Hans » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:19 pm

Just as another datapoint, we were happy with the approach we took. My wife took off one year without pay. I took off the first two weeks of that time as paid ("sick") leave. Then, at the end of the year when my wife went back to work, I took off 16 weeks without pay. I got to be the primary parent for the early days of mobility!

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JoeRetire
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by JoeRetire » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:23 pm

Take the entire 16 weeks paid leave.

Yes, you'll be proving to your company that they can get along fine without you, but you'll get to enjoy your family time. And those chances don't happen too often.
It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | And I feel fine.

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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by Glockenspiel » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:28 pm

I strongly encourage you to take the full 16 weeks.

1. It’s illegal to have any repercussions for taking the time off.
2. It sets a good example for others to follow. Parental leave is B.S. in this country and the culture around it needs to change. You taking the full time off allows others to see it as normal.
3. The company will see that yes, they will survive without you, and will start to change their opinion of it.

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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by HawkeyePierce » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:48 pm

I'd take the full leave. The only way culture changes is if more people insist on that.

We get 20 weeks fully-paid paternity/maternity/adoption leave at my employer and everyone from the execs to individual contributors takes the whole thing. It's not a problem for the company once you've built up the cultural muscle around it.

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dm200
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by dm200 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:50 pm

Glockenspiel wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:28 pm
I strongly encourage you to take the full 16 weeks.
1. It’s illegal to have any repercussions for taking the time off.
2. It sets a good example for others to follow. Parental leave is B.S. in this country and the culture around it needs to change. You taking the full time off allows others to see it as normal.
3. The company will see that yes, they will survive without you, and will start to change their opinion of it.
Even though it may be illegal, nonetheless the employer may very well (in the background) not be fully pleased with your decisions.

I am not sure I would ever have wanted, or want now, an employer to conclude that they are doing 100% fine without me. I would hope that my employer would miss me and want me back on the job very soon.

I suspect that women in management at your employer would be the most supportive of you decision to take time off for parental leave.

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dm200
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by dm200 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:52 pm

HawkeyePierce wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:48 pm
I'd take the full leave. The only way culture changes is if more people insist on that.
We get 20 weeks fully-paid paternity/maternity/adoption leave at my employer and everyone from the execs to individual contributors takes the whole thing. It's not a problem for the company once you've built up the cultural muscle around it.
Often, it takes martyrs to accomplish such a "culture change". Be prepared!

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greg24
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by greg24 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:56 pm

Take the full leave. There are things more important in life than work.

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TxAg
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by TxAg » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:13 pm

That 16 weeks is part of your compensation package. Use it to your benefit.

Thegame14
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by Thegame14 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:41 pm

Glockenspiel wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:28 pm
I strongly encourage you to take the full 16 weeks.

1. It’s illegal to have any repercussions for taking the time off.
2. It sets a good example for others to follow. Parental leave is B.S. in this country and the culture around it needs to change. You taking the full time off allows others to see it as normal.
3. The company will see that yes, they will survive without you, and will start to change their opinion of it.
Is it? I had a job where I told my boss when baby was due, he said for my dedication to the company he would grant me two paid weeks vacation off the books. One month before baby is born he leaves, I ask him to confirm in writing my two weeks paid paternity, he never replies, at his going away lunch I mention it to him with new boss sitting there, and he says he is no longer in charge. I take my two weeks, actually even came back 2 days early, as soon as I enter the building I am told to meet in bosses office, and I am told I am being let go, and I can sign away right to sue for two months pay and them not contesting my unemployment. Had same thing happen at another company for having sinus surgery, so yes, things are "illegal", but we are also employed "at will" and very hard to get around that. Someone at my wifes job had a baby and was let go when they came back even though you are supposed to be guaranteed your job for 12 months after.

rage_phish
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by rage_phish » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:42 pm

anon_investor wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:57 pm
mervinj7 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:19 pm
magicrat wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:09 pm
From your description you sound fine with where you are at work and like the type of person who wants to put family first. If you decide to take the full 16 weeks, I can almost assure you that you will not regret it. Jobs come and go. You will only have this time once.
+1 Take the the full 16 weeks. Enjoy the time with your baby. If your job punishes you for taking paid time off as per official company policy, then it's time to find a new job.
+1
yup 100%

id probably take 8 weeks at birth followed by 8 weeks when wife goes back to work

KyleAAA
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by KyleAAA » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:52 pm

Take the full 16 weeks, no question. If you have to take it all at once, I'd do that. You won't regret taking it all, I promise. There is no scenario where taking the full 16 weeks isn't the correct option. There will be absolutely no negative career implications of any kind.

DarkHelmetII
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by DarkHelmetII » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:01 pm

I agree with others' general sentiment to take the leave. I don't really know the nature of your job, but after 1+ month if things at home seem to be reaching steady state you can start to do a little side / project work / planning and make your boss aware of it. This was possible for my roles when I took parental leave (two times, once each at two different companies). Better to under promise + over deliver (e.g. advertise you are taking 4 months) and in reality start to knock off a little bit of work here and there once you are getting settled. Obviously won't work in all scenarios for a variety of reasons but wanted to throw this out there as an approach that has personally worked for me.

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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by KyleAAA » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:03 pm

Sam1 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:02 pm
dm200 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:51 pm
Kaizen Soze wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:40 pm
Thanks for the replies. If it adds anything to the conversation, I'd plan on taking 2 weeks vacation when the baby is born and starting paternity leave about 2 months after that. My wife will get the first 10 weeks off. I'll have 35 vacation days for 2020 so I'd still be able take a week off here and there.
So, you do not need to start and take this paternity leave immediately or very shortly after the baby is born? Sixteen weeks fully paid paternity leave seems very, very generous indeed! Between your wife taking ten weeks and your taking up to 16 weeks - you will have "saved" many months of childcare - which tends to be more expensive for infants.

I might, informally, try to chat with coworkers who have taken paternity or maternity leave - as to how this may have affected their employment situation - and any ideas/suggestions for negating negative aspects.

Perhaps when you are out for this 16 weeks, stay in touch with the work folks, bring in the baby a few times, and become well prepared to hit the ground running when you return. Unless absolutely necessary for your wife and baby, I might shorten the initial two weeks.
I’d argue the first two weeks are the most important. If the wife ends up with a c-section, she may be unable to climb stairs and will need help lifting the baby. As you will find out, giving birth is a huge deal physically and the two weeks following it can be rough even for an easy delivery.

Agree. If a c section is required, 2 weeks probably won't be nearly enough unless you have family nearby who can help out EVERY day.

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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by KyleAAA » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:07 pm

Thegame14 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:41 pm
Glockenspiel wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:28 pm
I strongly encourage you to take the full 16 weeks.

1. It’s illegal to have any repercussions for taking the time off.
2. It sets a good example for others to follow. Parental leave is B.S. in this country and the culture around it needs to change. You taking the full time off allows others to see it as normal.
3. The company will see that yes, they will survive without you, and will start to change their opinion of it.
Is it? I had a job where I told my boss when baby was due, he said for my dedication to the company he would grant me two paid weeks vacation off the books. One month before baby is born he leaves, I ask him to confirm in writing my two weeks paid paternity, he never replies, at his going away lunch I mention it to him with new boss sitting there, and he says he is no longer in charge. I take my two weeks, actually even came back 2 days early, as soon as I enter the building I am told to meet in bosses office, and I am told I am being let go, and I can sign away right to sue for two months pay and them not contesting my unemployment. Had same thing happen at another company for having sinus surgery, so yes, things are "illegal", but we are also employed "at will" and very hard to get around that. Someone at my wifes job had a baby and was let go when they came back even though you are supposed to be guaranteed your job for 12 months after.
You were not legally protected that case. You'd have needed to go on FMLA leave to be protected.

Thegame14
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by Thegame14 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:28 pm

KyleAAA wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:07 pm
Thegame14 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:41 pm
Glockenspiel wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:28 pm
I strongly encourage you to take the full 16 weeks.

1. It’s illegal to have any repercussions for taking the time off.
2. It sets a good example for others to follow. Parental leave is B.S. in this country and the culture around it needs to change. You taking the full time off allows others to see it as normal.
3. The company will see that yes, they will survive without you, and will start to change their opinion of it.
Is it? I had a job where I told my boss when baby was due, he said for my dedication to the company he would grant me two paid weeks vacation off the books. One month before baby is born he leaves, I ask him to confirm in writing my two weeks paid paternity, he never replies, at his going away lunch I mention it to him with new boss sitting there, and he says he is no longer in charge. I take my two weeks, actually even came back 2 days early, as soon as I enter the building I am told to meet in bosses office, and I am told I am being let go, and I can sign away right to sue for two months pay and them not contesting my unemployment. Had same thing happen at another company for having sinus surgery, so yes, things are "illegal", but we are also employed "at will" and very hard to get around that. Someone at my wifes job had a baby and was let go when they came back even though you are supposed to be guaranteed your job for 12 months after.
You were not legally protected that case. You'd have needed to go on FMLA leave to be protected.
Right but it doesn't matter, you can be legally protected and they can make up another excuse to fire you, or not promote you. No one is going to outright say we didn't promote you or we fired you for taking 16 weeks off...

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Kaizen Soze
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by Kaizen Soze » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:29 pm

DarkHelmetII wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:01 pm
I agree with others' general sentiment to take the leave. I don't really know the nature of your job, but after 1+ month if things at home seem to be reaching steady state you can start to do a little side / project work / planning and make your boss aware of it. This was possible for my roles when I took parental leave (two times, once each at two different companies). Better to under promise + over deliver (e.g. advertise you are taking 4 months) and in reality start to knock off a little bit of work here and there once you are getting settled. Obviously won't work in all scenarios for a variety of reasons but wanted to throw this out there as an approach that has personally worked for me.
I've talked to two people that have taken paternity leave. They both said HR is strict about no work whatsoever while on leave. I wouldn't be allowed to check emails or take calls. Something insurance related.

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anon_investor
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by anon_investor » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:31 pm

KyleAAA wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:07 pm
Thegame14 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:41 pm
Glockenspiel wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:28 pm
I strongly encourage you to take the full 16 weeks.

1. It’s illegal to have any repercussions for taking the time off.
2. It sets a good example for others to follow. Parental leave is B.S. in this country and the culture around it needs to change. You taking the full time off allows others to see it as normal.
3. The company will see that yes, they will survive without you, and will start to change their opinion of it.
Is it? I had a job where I told my boss when baby was due, he said for my dedication to the company he would grant me two paid weeks vacation off the books. One month before baby is born he leaves, I ask him to confirm in writing my two weeks paid paternity, he never replies, at his going away lunch I mention it to him with new boss sitting there, and he says he is no longer in charge. I take my two weeks, actually even came back 2 days early, as soon as I enter the building I am told to meet in bosses office, and I am told I am being let go, and I can sign away right to sue for two months pay and them not contesting my unemployment. Had same thing happen at another company for having sinus surgery, so yes, things are "illegal", but we are also employed "at will" and very hard to get around that. Someone at my wifes job had a baby and was let go when they came back even though you are supposed to be guaranteed your job for 12 months after.
You were not legally protected that case. You'd have needed to go on FMLA leave to be protected.
If there is a written policy for paternity leave then firing someone for taking it is probably illegal in most states...

KyleAAA
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by KyleAAA » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:00 pm

Thegame14 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:28 pm
KyleAAA wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:07 pm
Thegame14 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:41 pm
Glockenspiel wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:28 pm
I strongly encourage you to take the full 16 weeks.

1. It’s illegal to have any repercussions for taking the time off.
2. It sets a good example for others to follow. Parental leave is B.S. in this country and the culture around it needs to change. You taking the full time off allows others to see it as normal.
3. The company will see that yes, they will survive without you, and will start to change their opinion of it.
Is it? I had a job where I told my boss when baby was due, he said for my dedication to the company he would grant me two paid weeks vacation off the books. One month before baby is born he leaves, I ask him to confirm in writing my two weeks paid paternity, he never replies, at his going away lunch I mention it to him with new boss sitting there, and he says he is no longer in charge. I take my two weeks, actually even came back 2 days early, as soon as I enter the building I am told to meet in bosses office, and I am told I am being let go, and I can sign away right to sue for two months pay and them not contesting my unemployment. Had same thing happen at another company for having sinus surgery, so yes, things are "illegal", but we are also employed "at will" and very hard to get around that. Someone at my wifes job had a baby and was let go when they came back even though you are supposed to be guaranteed your job for 12 months after.
You were not legally protected that case. You'd have needed to go on FMLA leave to be protected.
Right but it doesn't matter, you can be legally protected and they can make up another excuse to fire you, or not promote you. No one is going to outright say we didn't promote you or we fired you for taking 16 weeks off...
Sure, but that isn't really relevant to the question, which is whether or not taking 16 weeks would negatively impact his career. Being fired or not promoted at a specific company wouldn't qualify since jobs are so easy to find.

stoptothink
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by stoptothink » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:01 pm

I'll be another dissenter: play it by ear. My employer provides 4 weeks paternity leave. Although I actually intended to take all of it, I ended up taking 6 days (8 total with weekend) with my son. My wife bounced back fine (quickest/simplest birth you've ever heard of and she kept her self in amazing shape) and basically I was just in the way after a few days. Me going back to work had nothing to do with it possibly looking bad in the midst of vying for a promotion, my wife had it under control and it was just better for us all after a few days. I've had a few male employees do the exact same thing. Yes, having a newborn is hard - disturbed sleeping patterns are without a doubt the most difficult part - but at least in the case of my two, they weren't that hard.

Maybe if I had a career that was all-encompassing and included a crazy commute I'd think differently, but I have a solid 40hr/week, minimal stress and 7min walking commute job, so I was involved a lot.

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dm200
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by dm200 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:01 pm

I don't know. 16 weeks of vacation for a young person sounds - yes this is going to sound criticizing or insulting and I apologize - indulgent.
Caring for a baby (especially being a first time father) full time every business day hardly seems like a "vacation" to me! I expect that this time will also be very "enlightening" as well.

mortfree
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by mortfree » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:04 pm

What do parents do when there is no mother? This happens. Thus another reason for paternity leave in this new era?

My wife and I are expecting in April. Kid #2. Early 40’s.

I am allowed 30 paid days of paternity during the first 12 months. Last time I got 5 paid days I think for Kid #1.
Last edited by mortfree on Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

an_asker
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by an_asker » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:04 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:16 pm
[...]I would say to absolutely take 16 weeks.[...] Who knows who you'll work for in the future. Employers have zero loyalty towards employees these days, so you need to do what's best for you. Taking the leave, in my opinion is what's best for you.
+1!

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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by an_asker » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:04 pm

mortfree wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:04 pm
What do parents do when there is no mother? This happens. Thus another reason for paternity leave this new era?

My wife and I are expecting in April. Kid #2. Early 40’s.

I am allowed 30 paid days of paternity during the first 12 months. Last time I got 5 paid days I think for Kid #1.
I don't recall getting any for either of my teens.

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mmmodem
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by mmmodem » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:05 pm

Kaizen Soze wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:01 pm
Senior management provided valid reasons and have since nominated me for several internal appointments to help further my career. They also mentioned they'll request a compensation increase during the year-end review cycle, amount unknown.
I hope you realize the above is what management says to an individual in lieu of "no."

I would take the full 16 weeks but I would not add on additional vacation. 16 weeks paternal leave is extremely generous and adding on would definitely make it seem like management made the right choice in denying you the promotion.

FWIW, I took the full 6 weeks at 55% pay for paternity leave. There was no retaliation as I can tell. If there were, I'd rather find out sooner rather than later so I can look for another job. There are plenty of studies that show a happy employee is a productive employee. Most fathers chose to use all 6 weeks.

I just had a child and my current employer does not offer paternity leave. Using unpaid FMLA would've been accepted but I chose to use the balance of my two week vacation instead. That's what most father's did here.

Tell your boss your having a child after the first trimester. The majority of miscarriage occur before this. Half a year is plenty of time to make preparations for a 16 week break.

Sam1
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by Sam1 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:05 pm

dm200 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:01 pm
I don't know. 16 weeks of vacation for a young person sounds - yes this is going to sound criticizing or insulting and I apologize - indulgent.
Caring for a baby (especially being a first time father) full time every business day hardly seems like a "vacation" to me! I expect that this time will also be very "enlightening" as well.
I don’t think someone who refers to paternity leave as a vacation is going to get it.

krb
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by krb » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:08 pm

dm200 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:01 pm
I don't know. 16 weeks of vacation for a young person sounds - yes this is going to sound criticizing or insulting and I apologize - indulgent.
Caring for a baby (especially being a first time father) full time every business day hardly seems like a "vacation" to me! I expect that this time will also be very "enlightening" as well.
At this stage caring for a baby means either feed it or change its diaper when it's crying. And comfort it when it wakes up from sleep. It's very draining and I don't think it takes 2 adults working full time at it to accomplish these goals. It's very simple and very draining. Perhaps OP and Mom could each take off a week every other week? Or Dad could take off 1 or two days a week for a few weeks? I don't see that two intelligent physically capable people are needed at this stage in a baby's life.

krb
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by krb » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:11 pm

Sam1 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:05 pm
dm200 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:01 pm
I don't know. 16 weeks of vacation for a young person sounds - yes this is going to sound criticizing or insulting and I apologize - indulgent.
Caring for a baby (especially being a first time father) full time every business day hardly seems like a "vacation" to me! I expect that this time will also be very "enlightening" as well.
I don’t think someone who refers to paternity leave as a vacation is going to get it.
Enlightening in what way? Curious, not sarcastic. I mean it is literally cuddling when the baby wakes up from sleep, changing diapers, and feeding. Very rewarding in retrospect (not at the time), very draining, and very repetitive.

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dm200
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by dm200 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:11 pm

I am old enough to remember how many aspects of having a baby were very, very different. Fathers rarely did any "hands on" care for babies. Mothers employed outside the home did not get any kind of paid maternity time off at all. In fact, in many employee/professions (school teachers were a common example), a pregnant woman was required to leave the workforce several (or many) months before her due date.

When employed at a "Mega Corp", I was very, very surprised when my manager told me that his wife (also an employee of the same Mega Corp) would be receiving "sick leave" payments for something like six weeks after she gave birth - and would be at work right up to very close to having the baby. So many things change in the working and employment environment over the years.

stoptothink
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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by stoptothink » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:11 pm

dm200 wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:01 pm
I don't know. 16 weeks of vacation for a young person sounds - yes this is going to sound criticizing or insulting and I apologize - indulgent.
Caring for a baby (especially being a first time father) full time every business day hardly seems like a "vacation" to me! I expect that this time will also be very "enlightening" as well.
I work from home 1.5 days/week. I am watching 2 kids (my 4yr old son and a neighbor's 2yr old) while working simultaneously (I'm in upper management in a large corporation). Yes, sometimes it gets a tad complicated, but I've been doing it for 2yrs and nobody has ever gotten hurt and I've never felt completely overwhelmed. I change diapers, make breakfast and lunch, and still manage to effectively take care of my job responsibilities. It's a choice, I want to spend more time with my son and be able to get my daughter from the bus stop at least once a week; I am fortunate that I have an employer that gives me a lot of autonomy.

I hear horror stories of the difficulty of stay at home parenting all the time, but it just has never been that hard for either my wife or I. Not trying to minimize the difficulties of stay-at-home-parenting, but that is our experience with 2 kids.

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Re: 16 Weeks Paternity Leave

Post by JGoneRiding » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:14 pm

Frankly I think you will be bored unless there are a lot of projects around the house or other children. I most likely would have shot my husband that much togetherness

I was seriously bored with the first after 6 weeks and I was doing all the nursing and care.

It's a pity you can't split it. I would say take 4 weeks then 12 more when your wife goes back

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