Retire or work again?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Post Reply
Topic Author
sg13
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:35 am

Retire or work again?

Post by sg13 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:32 pm

I am a 40 year old dentist and was an owner of multiple practices until spring of this year when an asset sale to corporate gave me millions.
I paid off my home mortgage, all other loans, paid off a commercial building which now gives me rent of $160k annually, which increases 2% annually.

I am left with almost $4M cash which I can:

1. Invest in stocks and bonds as Bogleheads recommend. Then enjoy the wealth growth and not worry about working again as dentist. Remember I still make $160K annually as passive income.
2. Invest 50% in stocks and rest in commercial real estate + use this commercial building to open another practice. This also means that I buy a home close to this new work location which has to be at least 15 miles away due to non compete.
3. Invest 80% in stocks and invest in a lease space to restart a new practice. The house situation will be same as option 2.

If I pick option 2 or 3, I’ll have to buy a house in expensive west coast housing market 15 miles away. For example, my current home is worth about $1M and I paid off mortgage of $400k to keep it but to buy a similar home, it will cost me at least $1M, likely more.

Also in 2012 and at the age of 32, I was diagnosed with coronary heart disease through angiogram, which runs in the family. Running healthy for last 7 years though.

What would you do?
Thanks!

HomeStretch
Posts: 4024
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:06 pm

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by HomeStretch » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:18 am

For Option 1, what % would you need to withdraw annually from your $4 million portfolio that, in addition to the $160k rent net of expenses, would cover your annual living expenses (including income taxes, healthcare and lumpy expenses)?

Have you worked enough quarters to be eligible for Medicare and SS retirement benefits?

Topic Author
sg13
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:35 am

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by sg13 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:37 am

I won’t need to draw anything. My passive income is enough and wife draws close to six figures too. She is planning to go PT soon which means total household income still will be more than $200k.

Yes I have worked for 12+ years FT to make myself eligible for benefits later in the age.

User avatar
HomerJ
Posts: 14172
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by HomerJ » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:59 am

Will running another dental practice give you more joy than anything else in the world?

Because if there's anything that would give you more joy... I suggest you do that.
The J stands for Jay

User avatar
sperry8
Posts: 2085
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:25 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by sperry8 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:18 am

sg13 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:32 pm
I am a 40 year old dentist and was an owner of multiple practices until spring of this year when an asset sale to corporate gave me millions.
I paid off my home mortgage, all other loans, paid off a commercial building which now gives me rent of $160k annually, which increases 2% annually.

I am left with almost $4M cash which I can:

1. Invest in stocks and bonds as Bogleheads recommend. Then enjoy the wealth growth and not worry about working again as dentist. Remember I still make $160K annually as passive income.
2. Invest 50% in stocks and rest in commercial real estate + use this commercial building to open another practice. This also means that I buy a home close to this new work location which has to be at least 15 miles away due to non compete.
3. Invest 80% in stocks and invest in a lease space to restart a new practice. The house situation will be same as option 2.

If I pick option 2 or 3, I’ll have to buy a house in expensive west coast housing market 15 miles away. For example, my current home is worth about $1M and I paid off mortgage of $400k to keep it but to buy a similar home, it will cost me at least $1M, likely more.

Also in 2012 and at the age of 32, I was diagnosed with coronary heart disease through angiogram, which runs in the family. Running healthy for last 7 years though.

What would you do?
Thanks!
Life is short. Retire and enjoy life. Unless you consider your dental practice your passion and would happily do it for no pay. I get that you could/would be paid - but my point is to ascertain whether it is a true passion (true passions are things you'd do for no pay).
BH contest results: 2019: #233 of 645 | 18: #150 of 493 | 17: #516 of 647 | 16: #121 of 610 | 15: #18 of 552 | 14: #225 of 503 | 13: #383 of 433 | 12: #366 of 410 | 11: #113 of 369 | 10: #53 of 282

MathIsMyWayr
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:47 pm
Location: CA

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:20 am

You are in an enviable position in which work is optional. Now, you have to ask yourself how you want to spend the remaining years of your life, yes, remaining years since life will end eventually. Have you found a passion in life yet? Though "slaving at work" is a mantra often heard on this board, you have to view work from a fresh angle and re-examine its role in defining your life. When I was in a graduate school, there was a post-doc in a lab who studied theoretical particle physics. When I asked him whether he still studied theoretical physics, he replied "nobody forgets his first love."

csm
Posts: 346
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:52 am

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by csm » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:49 am

sg13 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:32 pm
I am a 40 year old dentist and was an owner of multiple practices until spring of this year when an asset sale to corporate gave me millions.
I paid off my home mortgage, all other loans, paid off a commercial building which now gives me rent of $160k annually, which increases 2% annually.

I am left with almost $4M cash which I can:

1. Invest in stocks and bonds as Bogleheads recommend. Then enjoy the wealth growth and not worry about working again as dentist. Remember I still make $160K annually as passive income.
2. Invest 50% in stocks and rest in commercial real estate + use this commercial building to open another practice. This also means that I buy a home close to this new work location which has to be at least 15 miles away due to non compete.
3. Invest 80% in stocks and invest in a lease space to restart a new practice. The house situation will be same as option 2.

If I pick option 2 or 3, I’ll have to buy a house in expensive west coast housing market 15 miles away. For example, my current home is worth about $1M and I paid off mortgage of $400k to keep it but to buy a similar home, it will cost me at least $1M, likely more.

Also in 2012 and at the age of 32, I was diagnosed with coronary heart disease through angiogram, which runs in the family. Running healthy for last 7 years though.

What would you do?
Thanks!
I would definitely not do #2 or #3. Who needs the stress, particularly given your past health situation.

Do you still have desire to work as a dentist in any capacity? If so, why not do #1 with your nest egg / windfall plus work as a dentist part time, perhaps even volunteering one day a week to offer dental care to people who cannot afford it?

If you have no desire to work as a dentist any more, realize you have "won the game" and focus on how you would like to spend your time after this. There are so many options but it is difficult for anyone to make suggestions without also knowing your interests.

Topic Author
sg13
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:35 am

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by sg13 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:53 am

I do not have to practice and I can definitely live without it.
I just do not want to feel like I am being lazy and retiring early. My family is fine with whatever I want and it is hard to get unbiased opinion from friends or colleagues.

Thanks :)

808
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:21 am

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by 808 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:43 am

sg13 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:53 am
I do not have to practice and I can definitely live without it.
I just do not want to feel like I am being lazy and retiring early. My family is fine with whatever I want and it is hard to get unbiased opinion from friends or colleagues.

Thanks :)
Based on this latest clarification, definitely #1. Enjoy life!

User avatar
whodidntante
Posts: 7641
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:11 pm
Location: outside the echo chamber

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by whodidntante » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:55 am

sg13 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:53 am
I do not have to practice and I can definitely live without it.
I just do not want to feel like I am being lazy and retiring early. My family is fine with whatever I want and it is hard to get unbiased opinion from friends or colleagues.

Thanks :)
You can do stuff after you stop working. What will you retire to?

User avatar
JoeRetire
Posts: 5154
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by JoeRetire » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:32 am

sg13 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:32 pm
I am a 40 year old dentist and was an owner of multiple practices until spring of this year when an asset sale to corporate gave me millions.
I paid off my home mortgage, all other loans, paid off a commercial building which now gives me rent of $160k annually, which increases 2% annually.

I am left with almost $4M cash

What would you do?
I would do what I and my family would enjoy doing.

What do you want to do? Do you enjoy working? What would you do with your time if you weren't working?
Do you have a spouse/family? What do they want to do?
It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | And I feel fine.

User avatar
Tamarind
Posts: 2083
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:38 pm

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by Tamarind » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:33 am

sg13 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:53 am
I do not have to practice and I can definitely live without it.
I just do not want to feel like I am being lazy and retiring early. My family is fine with whatever I want and it is hard to get unbiased opinion from friends or colleagues.

Thanks :)
Take option #1 and if make it a goal to find a hobby or passion that will keep you occupied and part of society. I know there's a strong demand for "pro bono" dental work through volunteer groups and social services. Or you could find that something completely unrelated floats your boat. The important point is you no longer have to work for money so you now have the luxury to find work you're willing to do for free.

retiredjg
Posts: 39986
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:56 pm

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by retiredjg » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:10 am

sg13 wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:53 am
I do not have to practice and I can definitely live without it.
That seems to make #2 and #3 somewhat unattractive, doesn't it?

I just do not want to feel like I am being lazy and retiring early. My family is fine with whatever I want and it is hard to get unbiased opinion from friends or colleagues.
Seems like you've done your part, haven't you? The fact that you got fortunate enough to do it early doesn't change that and make you lazy.

I think you should plan to do nothing for a year (other than dabble or do volunteer work). What you should do next will make itself apparent with time.

Goal33
Posts: 1154
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:30 pm

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by Goal33 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:20 am

Would definitely not do #2. Wouldn’t want more property personally. I don’t also understand why you can’t commute 15 miles if you like your house.

#3 seems interesting.

Working for another practice with no personal investment or business to run also sounds lower stress.
A man with one watch always knows what time it is; a man with two watches is never sure.

jhh9327
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:06 am

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by jhh9327 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:26 am

Congrats!
Last edited by jhh9327 on Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Stinky
Posts: 3509
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:38 am
Location: Sweet Home Alabama

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by Stinky » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:26 am

retiredjg wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:10 am
I think you should plan to do nothing for a year (other than dabble or do volunteer work). What you should do next will make itself apparent with time.
+1

I retired just over a year ago. It took me most of that year to unplug from work and everything associated with it, and to fully figure out what I really enjoyed doing.

OP, congratulations on your success in your business life. I expect that your future path will be much clearer by this time next year. Take the next 12 months to relax, refresh, and recharge.
It's a GREAT day to be alive - Travis Tritt

visualguy
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:32 am

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by visualguy » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:26 am

My dentist has been independently wealthy for years now thanks to a large inheritance. He still has a practice that he owns, and he still practices, but only part time. He does things at a leisurely pace, and always seems mellow, relaxed, and not pressed for time. Doesn't push overly aggressive and expensive work, and charges low rates. I like much of that as a patient, although I find that his work started to be negatively affected in more recent times. It's a slippery slope once you start taking things easy...

jane8
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:10 pm

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by jane8 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:34 am

Here’s what I can picture myself doing in your shoes. May not float your boat but maybe it will spark something. I would look into nonprofit health clinics or social service organizations in your region that already provide pro bono or low-cost dental care to underserved community members. There is an increasing awareness of the relationship between dental health and overall health. And even though there’s been an expansion of access to affordable health care and coverage in many states, the rate of dental coverage remains much lower. There’s an opportunity for really rewarding philanthropic and volunteer work there. Clinics and social service organizations that are already doing this work would be the easiest to get involved with. Here’s a randomly selected example of a clinic that provides low-cost dental care to children requesting help from interested skilled volunteers: http://www.kidsclinic.org/how-you-can-help.html However, if you don’t find an organization in your area that’s already doing this work, another (more time and commitment-intensive) option would be to start getting involved with appropriate health-related organizations in your community, floating the idea and seeing if there’s a way to get traction on providing something like this through an organization with a good reputation in the community already. Skilled volunteer work is highly rewarding and can be a wonderful, deeply meaningful, part of a life well lived after the working/accumulation years are over. Congratulations on your success.

Topic Author
sg13
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:35 am

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by sg13 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:03 pm

This is all very helpful, thanks all!

I have spouse, two kids (8 and 4) and my parents also live with me.

Yes I am staying free for few more months and then try to do something which helps socially and needy.

Cheers!

User avatar
ram
Posts: 1475
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:47 pm
Location: Midwest

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by ram » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:35 pm

I would invest the 4M.
I would work part time as an employed dentist and would work on my terms irrespective of what that does to my salary. I will not take any call.
Ram

Keenobserver
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:05 pm

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by Keenobserver » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:46 pm

Posts like these always bring a smile to my face. Congratulations.
I would would go with option 1 but comtinue to look for meaninful goals in life. Charity/ volunteer work/ engaging in a spiritual quest/ traveling the world/ learning how to read hieroglyphics/ adjunct professorship at local university? World is huge and full of wonderful things and you are young enough to experience many of them. Keep charity/ volunteer work high on your list as many find it rewarding anf meaningful

User avatar
Watty
Posts: 18781
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by Watty » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:21 pm

sg13 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:32 pm
If I pick option 2 or 3, I’ll have to buy a house in expensive west coast housing market 15 miles away. For example, my current home is worth about $1M and I paid off mortgage of $400k to keep it but to buy a similar home, it will cost me at least $1M, likely more.
.....

I have spouse, two kids (8 and 4) and my parents also live with me.

.....
What would you do?
Do you have other strong family ties to where you live now?

If not then I would travel around to see if there is some other location that you would like to live in. It might also be less expensive, and maybe have lower taxes.

If you can find a place that appeals to you then I would move there (bringing your parents along) and only work part time for as much as liked working.

A couple of things to consider for the long term.

1) It was a long time ago but I lived in the Bay Area when I was right out of college which has always been expensive. Even back then some of my older coworkers had grown kids that were well into their 20s that were still living with them and it was not always a good situation. The problem was that they did not have high paying jobs so they could not afford an apartment(much less a house) even with roommates.

Consider what it will be like there for your kids when they are grown up. Will they be able to afford to live near you?

In contrast I am in Atlanta now which still has reasonable housing. My son is 30 now and doing well in his career and he was easily able to afford to buy a nice house that is about 10 minutes from us. This means that we get to frequently see our two grand-kids. Virtually all of his high school classmates and college friends that stayed in the area were able to buy houses in their 20s.

We also have friends who have a son who is severely dyslexic and barely graduated from high school. At one point he was working at a chain muffler shop which is good honest job but I am sure that it did not pay a lot. Even on his income he was able to live with his parents for a while to save up and buy a small older house in a marginal but not terrible area.

I'm not saying that Atlanta is Nirvana and you should move here but there are lots of places with a reasonable cost of living. Some college towns have a lot going for them.

2) Look at the possible long term care costs in your area. They can be crazy expensive in some expensive areas if your parents(or you) ever need it.

Here is a link where you can see LTC costs in different areas.

https://www.genworth.com/aging-and-you/ ... -care.html

Topic Author
sg13
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:35 am

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by sg13 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:52 am

Moving somewhere cheaper is an idea we have exercised mentally already but we have family and friends here plus most of our close family is across the border in Vancouver BC. We are in Seattle.
We do have significant number of friends and few close families in Chicago which is cheaper than Seattle but property and income taxes are high plus weather is brutal.

If we stay put in the house we are in, I don’t think it is much more expensive to live here. We don’t have any state taxes here either. Parents will be taken care of at home so no nursing homes or senior homes will be used. If needed they do have enough to live comfortably.
Kids I guess can go wherever life takes them, preferably closer to home. If needed we can move in future if we have to for the kids.

Thanks!

User avatar
Hawaiishrimp
Posts: 456
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Retire or work again?

Post by Hawaiishrimp » Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:16 am

I suggest you go with Option #1 for a while until you find a better option that gives you more joy in life. Congrats! :sharebeer
I save and invest my money, so money can make money for me, so I don't have to make money eventually.

Post Reply