Flight Delay in Europe

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TravelforFun
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Flight Delay in Europe

Post by TravelforFun » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:51 pm

October 1, 2019. As we were on the train from Brussels to Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris to catch a flight home, I began receiving texts from American Airlines notifying me my flight was being delayed. At first, it was for one hour, then two, and by the time I got to the ticket counter, the agent informed me the flight had been cancelled due to mechanical problems, and that AA had put me on a flight the next day.

The agent also informed me they had reserved a block of rooms at an airport hotel for delayed customers. We happily took a room free of charge along with a couple of food vouchers. Our flight took off the next day as scheduled.

After I got home, I researched flight delays in Europe and voila, the EU has rules governing flight delays. If you arrive at or leave from an EU airport, and your arrival or departure time is more than 4 hours later than scheduled, the airlines owes you 600 Euros (or close to $700) for each purchased ticket. Smaller amounts for shorter delays. I emailed AA my delay info and the EU regs. Today (or approximately one month later), we received two checks from AA for the delay reimbursement. No questions asked.

All the stars must have been aligned perfectly because: 1) I just recently retired and had no need to be anywhere quick, 2) I can't think of better place to stay an extra day than Paris; and 3) we got paid for spending another day in the City of Lights. Sweet!

So if your flight is delayed in Europe, look up the rules.

TravelforFun
Last edited by TravelforFun on Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

mbres60
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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by mbres60 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:27 pm

Great! We had heard about this before we traveled in 2017. Our flight was delayed a few hours. British Airways actually gave everyone a brochure about this as we got on the plane. We filed our claim and received our money promptly. it is good to make people aware because not all airlines do what BA did (as you found out yourself!).

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Vulcan
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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by Vulcan » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:34 pm

TravelforFun wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:51 pm
So if your flight is delayed in Europe, look up the rules.
We had a similar experience at de Gaulle (except our delay there led us to spend the night in Minneapolis :oops: ).

Quickest $2,800 ever made.

The rule is called Regulation 261
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

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TravelforFun
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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by TravelforFun » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:52 pm

Vulcan wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:34 pm
TravelforFun wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:51 pm
So if your flight is delayed in Europe, look up the rules.
We had a similar experience at de Gaulle (except our delay there led us to spend the night in Minneapolis :oops: ).

Quickest $2,800 ever made.

The rule is called Regulation 261
How did you get $2,800? How many in your party?

TravelforFun

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:00 pm

yes and I believe I heard this on Clark Howard. But remember, it only applies if a delay occurs from Europe to the U.S., not from the U.S. to Europe.
"May you live as long as you want and never want as long as you live" -- Irish Blessing | "Invest we must" -- Jack Bogle

RudyS
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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by RudyS » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:02 pm

TravelforFun wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:52 pm
Vulcan wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:34 pm
TravelforFun wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:51 pm
So if your flight is delayed in Europe, look up the rules.
We had a similar experience at de Gaulle (except our delay there led us to spend the night in Minneapolis :oops: ).

Quickest $2,800 ever made.

The rule is called Regulation 261
How did you get $2,800? How many in your party?

TravelforFun
Is this a math test? $700 per person according to OP. Must be a grouup of 4.

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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by Dude2 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:13 pm

Having a law on the books in Europe is so sophisticated. I wonder how this works in Rome, where, as Alec Baldwin put it, "Flight schedules are just a suggestion."

Why can't we get that in the US? I was delayed out of Newark to Orlando once (AA), and ended up in Charlotte just as the airport was closing. After waiting in long lines, yes, I did get a voucher for a cheap hotel and a food voucher I couldn't use because everything was closed. However, I didn't know what was going to happen. I couldn't have known they had vouchers in hand ready to give, and I think many passengers just left rather than endure the lines. In fact, I think that you had to say the magic words to the customer rep as they were probably told not to hand them out willynilly. (In this situation, on a connecting flight, you do not get your luggage back, a major inconvenience.)

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TravelforFun
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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by TravelforFun » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:45 pm

Dude2 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:13 pm
Having a law on the books in Europe is so sophisticated. I wonder how this works in Rome, where, as Alec Baldwin put it, "Flight schedules are just a suggestion."
That's funny! I've never heard that before and may be because of that, EU put down its foot on the airlines.

TravelforFun

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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:23 am

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:00 pm
yes and I believe I heard this on Clark Howard. But remember, it only applies if a delay occurs from Europe to the U.S., not from the U.S. to Europe.
I believe it does apply to flight delays from the US to Europe if you are flying a European carrier. Somebody correct me if I am mistaken.

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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by neilpilot » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:04 am

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:00 pm
yes and I believe I heard this on Clark Howard. But remember, it only applies if a delay occurs from Europe to the U.S., not from the U.S. to Europe.
We almost always use a European airline for our annual trip, in part because the delay/cancellation reimbursement applies from the US to Europe as well. We collected $700 each on a cancellation from JFK to UK last year.

Also, EU261 only kicks in if it’s the airline’s fault (equipment, crewing, etc); weather delays aren’t covered.

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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by Shallowpockets » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:00 am

I read link to the regulation. Maybe I could pursue it.

What if the flight is a missed connection? Wherein your departure time is not delayed. First flight is delayed and you missed the subsequent flight. Now booked on another flight the next day due to your first flight being delayed and thus missing the connection. Therefore you did not have a delay on the connection, it left without you because you were not there due to delay on first flight.
All this booked on one reservation.
Seville, Spain flight delayed due to mechanical. Arrive Paris too late for scheduled flight. Rebooked for next day flight.
How do you prove the Seville flight delay? Boarding passes for date and time on Seville flight are with original time of departure. They do not reissue boarding passes. So actual time of departure is undocumented in your hands. I.e. no proof to send to airline.

Flights booked third party (Tripmasters). Delta is airline but operated by Transavia, then KLM. Whose responsibility there?

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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by Bylo Selhi » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:08 am

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:23 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:00 pm
yes and I believe I heard this on Clark Howard. But remember, it only applies if a delay occurs from Europe to the U.S., not from the U.S. to Europe.
I believe it does apply to flight delays from the US to Europe if you are flying a European carrier. Somebody correct me if I am mistaken.
From the horse's mouth:
This page also outlines your rights in case of flight cancellation, overbooking, denied boarding, luggage loss/damage, etc. It's worth reading and bookmarking if you travel to the EU.

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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by neilpilot » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:10 am

Shallowpockets wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:00 am
I read link to the regulation. Maybe I could pursue it.

What if the flight is a missed connection? Wherein your departure time is not delayed. First flight is delayed and you missed the subsequent flight. Now booked on another flight the next day due to your first flight being delayed and thus missing the connection. Therefore you did not have a delay on the connection, it left without you because you were not there due to delay on first flight.
All this booked on one reservation.
Seville, Spain flight delayed due to mechanical. Arrive Paris too late for scheduled flight. Rebooked for next day flight.
How do you prove the Seville flight delay? Boarding passes for date and time on Seville flight are with original time of departure. They do not reissue boarding passes. So actual time of departure is undocumented in your hands. I.e. no proof to send to airline.

Flights booked third party (Tripmasters). Delta is airline but operated by Transavia, then KLM. Whose responsibility there?
I don't think EU261 applies at all in the example you proposed. In fact, the Seville flight was on time; you missed the connection. There was no "flight delay" under EU regulation.

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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by neilpilot » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:16 am

Bylo Selhi wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:08 am
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:23 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:00 pm
yes and I believe I heard this on Clark Howard. But remember, it only applies if a delay occurs from Europe to the U.S., not from the U.S. to Europe.
I believe it does apply to flight delays from the US to Europe if you are flying a European carrier. Somebody correct me if I am mistaken.
From the horse's mouth:
This page also outlines your rights in case of flight cancellation, overbooking, denied boarding, luggage loss/damage, etc. It's worth reading and bookmarking if you travel to the EU.
Bylo, that "EU air passenger rights" quote is correct as far as it goes, but there are additional (possibly rare) additions. For example, we have flown Norwegian Air Shuttle several times. Norwegian Air is an airline based in Norway, which is not in the EU. Should I assume that they are not "an EU airline"?. Norwegian Air did compensate me under EU261.

Switzerland is also not in the EU. Will Swiss Air compensate under EU261? I have no idea.

Shortly, the UK will also not be in the EU....

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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by Bylo Selhi » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:21 am

Shallowpockets wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:00 am
I read link to the regulation. Maybe I could pursue it.

What if the flight is a missed connection? Wherein your departure time is not delayed. First flight is delayed and you missed the subsequent flight. Now booked on another flight the next day due to your first flight being delayed and thus missing the connection. Therefore you did not have a delay on the connection, it left without you because you were not there due to delay on first flight.
All this booked on one reservation.
Seville, Spain flight delayed due to mechanical. Arrive Paris too late for scheduled flight. Rebooked for next day flight.
How do you prove the Seville flight delay? Boarding passes for date and time on Seville flight are with original time of departure. They do not reissue boarding passes. So actual time of departure is undocumented in your hands. I.e. no proof to send to airline.

Flights booked third party (Tripmasters). Delta is airline but operated by Transavia, then KLM. Whose responsibility there?
As long as your flights are on the same reservation then the airline(s) are responsible for getting you to your destination as soon as possible. This is not the case if each leg is on a different reservation, e.g. a mainline carrier like United on one and a discounter like RyanAir on the other.

You can "prove" your flight arrived late after the fact using sites like FlightAware. For example they show that today's Lufthansa 470 (FRA->YYZ) is now over the Atlantic. Thursday's and Friday's flights were apparently cancelled. They show actual departure and arrival times for earlier dates going back at least a week. Note that Wednesday's flight was about an hour late, likely causing some passengers to miss their connections.
Last edited by Bylo Selhi on Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by Bylo Selhi » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:35 am

neilpilot wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:16 am
Bylo, that "EU air passenger rights" quote is correct as far as it goes, but there are additional (possibly rare) additions. For example, we have flown Norwegian Air Shuttle several times. Norwegian Air is an airline based in Norway, which is not in the EU. Should I assume that they are not "an EU airline"?. Norwegian Air did compensate me under EU261.
That they may or may not have been obligated under EU261 (I don't know) doesn't preclude them from following EU261 for competitive or practical reasons. Consider that Norway and Switzerland are both Schwengen countries even though not EU members. Conversely UK is [currently] in the EU but not in Schwengen.
Switzerland is also not in the EU. Will Swiss Air compensate under EU261? I have no idea.
See Checking a claim for compensation in the event of flight delay or cancellation
Shortly, the UK will also not be in the EU....
What happens in that event will depend on what, if any, deal gets negotiated.

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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:16 pm

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:23 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:00 pm
yes and I believe I heard this on Clark Howard. But remember, it only applies if a delay occurs from Europe to the U.S., not from the U.S. to Europe.
I believe it does apply to flight delays from the US to Europe if you are flying a European carrier. Somebody correct me if I am mistaken.
I'm sorry, I should have been more clear that it may not apply to a non-EU licensed carrier rather than the direction the plane is flying.
If I am travelling from outside the EU, e.g. from the USA to Paris, do I have any rights if my flight is cancelled?

YES - EU passenger rights apply in this case if your flight is operated by a carrier licensed in an EU country. If your flight is operated by a non-EU carrier, you may have rights under the relevant law of the country where the carrier is licensed.

source: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/t ... dex_en.htm
you "may" have rights. Or "may not". So I think the relevant bits are it should be a EU licensed carrier to qualify under the EU air passenger rights rules.
"May you live as long as you want and never want as long as you live" -- Irish Blessing | "Invest we must" -- Jack Bogle

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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by anonenigma » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:56 pm

TravelforFun wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:51 pm
3) we got paid for spending another day in the City of Lights. Sweet!
I believe that it's "City of Light" = la ville lumiere. It's a reference to enlightenment rather than actual lights.

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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by Vulcan » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:16 pm

RudyS wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:02 pm
TravelforFun wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:52 pm
Vulcan wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:34 pm
We had a similar experience at de Gaulle (except our delay there led us to spend the night in Minneapolis :oops: ).

Quickest $2,800 ever made.

The rule is called Regulation 261
How did you get $2,800? How many in your party?

TravelforFun
Is this a math test? $700 per person according to OP. Must be a grouup of 4.
It adds up :D
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

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TravelforFun
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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by TravelforFun » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:19 am

anonenigma wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:56 pm
TravelforFun wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:51 pm
3) we got paid for spending another day in the City of Lights. Sweet!
I believe that it's "City of Light" = la ville lumiere. It's a reference to enlightenment rather than actual lights.
That makes sense. Thanks.

TravelforFun

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Re: Flight Delay in Europe

Post by fortfun » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:03 pm

anonenigma wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:56 pm
TravelforFun wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:51 pm
3) we got paid for spending another day in the City of Lights. Sweet!
I believe that it's "City of Light" = la ville lumiere. It's a reference to enlightenment rather than actual lights.
Sort of like the "windy" city.

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