Umbrella policy with no car insurance

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big bang
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Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by big bang »

Hi all,
My son does not have a car (he is licensed). He wants to buy a Personal Umbrella Policy (reasons reserved). We called Geico and they advised that he needs to buy first a Named non Owners Policy before getting issued a Personal Umbrella Policy.
The quote for the Named non Owners Policy alone is more than $800. Very expensive relative to the Personal Umbrella Policy....
Is there a way around it?
Is there an Umbrella Policy provider that does not need that requirement?
Thank you all for your assistance.
Big Bang
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jt4
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by jt4 »

Also interested in this answer! I was told the same thing as I don't have a car and, therefore, auto insurance.

(The ~$800 that I was also quoted for a non-owners policy was similar to the cost of my comprehensive auto insurance policy when I had a car!)
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Perhaps buy a junk car with a title, insure and register it. It may cost less than that $800. I suppose he could ask the agent to quote that car insurance and then the umbrella insurance. I do know that my 19 year old son's liability portion of car insurance is the most expensive part of his car insurance. With comprehensive but no collision, the liability portions cost $1000. The rest costs $300. Clearly, the insurance company thinks he's a hazard on the highways. Being a male 19 year old, how can anyone disagree with that.
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neurosphere
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by neurosphere »

I don't have a car, and needed a non-owners policy in order to get Umbrella. In my case, I rent cars several times a year, so the car insurance + umbrella policies allow me to decline the rental company's liability coverage.

I also am with Geico. In NY, my non-owner's policy is about $250/year, off the top of my head.
Katietsu
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by Katietsu »

I don’t have any good advice other than to check with other companies as to the cost of their non owners policy. I have seen lower numbers but insurance is so variable. The problem that I see is that umbrella policies are cheap because of the requirements for underlying insurance. Start with the fact the auto is likely the number one risk for the insurer. The first $300k-$500k of insurance coverage has to be paid for somewhere. Without the underlying policy, the umbrella policy would just need priced higher. What coverage does your son have right now for liability if he rents a car or drives yours?
MichDad
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by MichDad »

This is an interesting conundrum. When we retired last year and moved outside the USA, my plan was to sell our car. I called my insurance company, State Farm, and told them about this plan. They told me that if we didn't have an insured car, they couldn't continue our umbrella policy with them. [We have auto, homeowner's, and umbrella coverage all with State Farm.] This seemed absurd to me. I said if we didn't have a car, we'd have less opportunity for being involved in a motor vehicle accident, no need for collision coverage, etc. They said "no." I then called a few other insurance companies and was given the same response -- we need auto coverage if we want an umbrella policy.

The end result is that we've kept our old car (and its insurance) but keep it parked at a relative's house for the six months we're away each year. Fortunately, State Farm has allowed us to put it on a very inexpensive auto policy for the months we're away.

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megabad
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by megabad »

OP, your findings seem consistent with mine in the past. I researched non owner policies years ago and decided against them because they had huge gaps when I was in traveling sales that basically defeated the point. It is my opinion that they don't offer much value. If you don't drive at all, my thinking is that your exposure is minimal since the vast majority of liability cases involve a vehicle. If you rent a car, I would just buy their policy (you may be required to already if you don't have insurance). I could pay a lot of rental insurance fees for $800/yr. I guess if you rent a car every day maybe the situation is different though.

That said, I would expect a non commercial named non-owner policy to cost about what a low mileage liability only owned policy would. By this measure, $800 (per yr I assume) does not sound unreasonable to me but this would be highly dependent on where you live. This is close to what I pay for a low mileage liability only policy on one of my vehicles.
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Nate79
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by Nate79 »

big bang wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:41 pm Hi all,
My son does not have a car (he is licensed). He wants to buy a Personal Umbrella Policy (reasons reserved). We called Geico and they advised that he needs to buy first a Named non Owners Policy before getting issued a Personal Umbrella Policy.
The quote for the Named non Owners Policy alone is more than $800. Very expensive relative to the Personal Umbrella Policy....
Is there a way around it?
Is there an Umbrella Policy provider that does not need that requirement?
Thank you all for your assistance.
Big Bang
Does he drive at all?
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big bang
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by big bang »

Nate79 wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:55 pm
big bang wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:41 pm Hi all,
My son does not have a car (he is licensed). He wants to buy a Personal Umbrella Policy (reasons reserved). We called Geico and they advised that he needs to buy first a Named non Owners Policy before getting issued a Personal Umbrella Policy.
The quote for the Named non Owners Policy alone is more than $800. Very expensive relative to the Personal Umbrella Policy....
Is there a way around it?
Is there an Umbrella Policy provider that does not need that requirement?
Thank you all for your assistance.
Big Bang
Does he drive at all?
He does.
But mostly he uses the ride sharing services.
Big Bang
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JAZZISCOOL
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by JAZZISCOOL »

big bang wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:41 pm Hi all,
My son does not have a car (he is licensed). He wants to buy a Personal Umbrella Policy (reasons reserved). We called Geico and they advised that he needs to buy first a Named non Owners Policy before getting issued a Personal Umbrella Policy.
The quote for the Named non Owners Policy alone is more than $800. Very expensive relative to the Personal Umbrella Policy....
Is there a way around it?
Is there an Umbrella Policy provider that does not need that requirement?
Thank you all for your assistance.
Big Bang
On a BH post earlier this year, someone mentioned this company for a stand-alone umbrella policy:

https://www.rlicorp.com/personal-umbrella-policy

I have no personal experience with them since I get my umbrella policy through another company but thought it might be worth mentioning.
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Nate79
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by Nate79 »

big bang wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:35 pm
Nate79 wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:55 pm
big bang wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:41 pm Hi all,
My son does not have a car (he is licensed). He wants to buy a Personal Umbrella Policy (reasons reserved). We called Geico and they advised that he needs to buy first a Named non Owners Policy before getting issued a Personal Umbrella Policy.
The quote for the Named non Owners Policy alone is more than $800. Very expensive relative to the Personal Umbrella Policy....
Is there a way around it?
Is there an Umbrella Policy provider that does not need that requirement?
Thank you all for your assistance.
Big Bang
Does he drive at all?
He does.
But mostly he uses the ride sharing services.
Big Bang
If he drives whose insurance is covering his liability today?
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big bang
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by big bang »

JAZZISCOOL wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:47 pm
big bang wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:41 pm Hi all,
My son does not have a car (he is licensed). He wants to buy a Personal Umbrella Policy (reasons reserved). We called Geico and they advised that he needs to buy first a Named non Owners Policy before getting issued a Personal Umbrella Policy.
The quote for the Named non Owners Policy alone is more than $800. Very expensive relative to the Personal Umbrella Policy....
Is there a way around it?
Is there an Umbrella Policy provider that does not need that requirement?
Thank you all for your assistance.
Big Bang
On a BH post earlier this year, someone mentioned this company for a stand-alone umbrella policy:

https://www.rlicorp.com/personal-umbrella-policy

I have no personal experience with them since I get my umbrella policy through another company but thought it might be worth mentioning.
Thank you JAZZISCOOL,
It seems that this is what we are looking for. We will give them a call.
Anyone has any experience with them?
Big Bang
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JAZZISCOOL
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by JAZZISCOOL »

OP,

You may want to look at this older post re: RLI:

viewtopic.php?t=237146

Also, do a Google search on BH for more posts. :beer
retired@50
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by retired@50 »

big bang wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:41 pm Hi all,
My son does not have a car (he is licensed). He wants to buy a Personal Umbrella Policy (reasons reserved). We called Geico and they advised that he needs to buy first a Named non Owners Policy before getting issued a Personal Umbrella Policy.
The quote for the Named non Owners Policy alone is more than $800. Very expensive relative to the Personal Umbrella Policy....
Is there a way around it?
Is there an Umbrella Policy provider that does not need that requirement?
Thank you all for your assistance.
Big Bang
Check with State Farm. My elderly father in law just recently sold his car and gave up driving, ending his auto policy, but still has an umbrella policy with State Farm, actually with a reduced rate, now that he can no longer hurt anyone with his car. Regards,
This is one person's opinion. Nothing more.
MikeG62
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by MikeG62 »

JAZZISCOOL wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:47 pm
big bang wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:41 pm Hi all,
My son does not have a car (he is licensed). He wants to buy a Personal Umbrella Policy (reasons reserved). We called Geico and they advised that he needs to buy first a Named non Owners Policy before getting issued a Personal Umbrella Policy.
The quote for the Named non Owners Policy alone is more than $800. Very expensive relative to the Personal Umbrella Policy....
Is there a way around it?
Is there an Umbrella Policy provider that does not need that requirement?
Thank you all for your assistance.
Big Bang
On a BH post earlier this year, someone mentioned this company for a stand-alone umbrella policy:

https://www.rlicorp.com/personal-umbrella-policy

I have no personal experience with them since I get my umbrella policy through another company but thought it might be worth mentioning.
In my experience stand alone does not mean you don’t need the underlying auto policy. It just means the umbrella insurer is different from the underlying insurer.

Good luck OP. Let us know what you work out.
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KT785
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by KT785 »

retired@50 wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:57 pm
big bang wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:41 pm Hi all,
My son does not have a car (he is licensed). He wants to buy a Personal Umbrella Policy (reasons reserved). We called Geico and they advised that he needs to buy first a Named non Owners Policy before getting issued a Personal Umbrella Policy.
The quote for the Named non Owners Policy alone is more than $800. Very expensive relative to the Personal Umbrella Policy....
Is there a way around it?
Is there an Umbrella Policy provider that does not need that requirement?
Thank you all for your assistance.
Big Bang
Check with State Farm. My elderly father in law just recently sold his car and gave up driving, ending his auto policy, but still has an umbrella policy with State Farm, actually with a reduced rate, now that he can no longer hurt anyone with his car. Regards,
Presumably your father also gave up his license ("gave up driving")? I suspect many carriers would write an umbrella without an underlying auto policy if the insured is not licensed and therefor wouldn't (or shouldn't) be driving at all. OP's son does have a license though and accordingly, presents that type of risk.

KT785
Tal-
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by Tal- »

I'm not an expert, but I have a different read on this...

I think the answer is no - you (or your son) will not be able to get an umbrella policy without first having car insurance in place.

Part of why an umbrella is so inexpesive is because they are not the first line of payment. So, an umbrella policy typically stipulates that you must maintain specific insurance/coverage to act as that first line of defense/payment.
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by RickBoglehead »

JAZZISCOOL wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:39 pm OP,

You may want to look at this older post re: RLI:

viewtopic.php?t=237146

Also, do a Google search on BH for more posts. :beer
That's a good thread on the subject.
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Re: Umbrella policy with no car insurance

Post by retired@50 »

KT785 wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:38 pm
retired@50 wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:57 pm
big bang wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:41 pm Hi all,
My son does not have a car (he is licensed). He wants to buy a Personal Umbrella Policy (reasons reserved). We called Geico and they advised that he needs to buy first a Named non Owners Policy before getting issued a Personal Umbrella Policy.
The quote for the Named non Owners Policy alone is more than $800. Very expensive relative to the Personal Umbrella Policy....
Is there a way around it?
Is there an Umbrella Policy provider that does not need that requirement?
Thank you all for your assistance.
Big Bang
Check with State Farm. My elderly father in law just recently sold his car and gave up driving, ending his auto policy, but still has an umbrella policy with State Farm, actually with a reduced rate, now that he can no longer hurt anyone with his car. Regards,
Presumably your father also gave up his license ("gave up driving")? I suspect many carriers would write an umbrella without an underlying auto policy if the insured is not licensed and therefor wouldn't (or shouldn't) be driving at all. OP's son does have a license though and accordingly, presents that type of risk.

KT785
No, my father-in-law still has a valid driver's license, he just doesn't own a car. He has no intention of driving, but it wouldn't be illegal for him to do so. Regards,
This is one person's opinion. Nothing more.
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