New Job, Depressed, Money issues

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confusedinvestor
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New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by confusedinvestor » Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:59 pm

Folks,
I could use some thoughtful advise / wisdom, given my situation

I'm 43, CA, spouse works with 2 kids. I'm in IT (Database Admin) recently my job from a big telecom company got outsourced to another company with 1 end contract / end date, and I panicked but thankfully got another 2 jobs locally here but in a different IT area (called DevOps) which needs some software engineering background/ skills which I don't have yet I was offered those jobs.

I took the new job in new field (DevOps) and now I am depressed b/c after 3 weeks into the job I cant deliver anything which my manager is asking me to do. He did said that he knew that I lack lot of skills and he is willing it give me 3 months to "ramp-up" with all the new tools and technologies of "DevOps" but he is asking me to deliver automation in the first weeks which I am having a hard time to even learn, produce and feel lost and thus depressed, thinking I will get fired in 3 months or so and why did I leave my last job which had an end date of 9 months, yet I had time to learn this DevOps / Cloud thing vs jumping to this new job w/o much knowledge.

I got another job offer (much lower salary) but in the same area (DevOps) as my current job but based on the my interview, sounds like but less expectation or complexity compared to my current job. I cant find a DBA admin IT job locally which I have been doing for last 20 yrs (b/c of shift in technology)

Questions I have is what do you guys advise given my situation

1. Should I take a new job offer (lower salary, possibly less complexity) and see if I can deliver there ? or,

2. Should I continue my current job and hoping to learn stuff in next 3 months and hopefully my manager will keep me ? or,

note: my manager now set up weekly 30 min session with other 2 engineer to train me but I am so depressed and feel lost, I am having trouble to understand and learn what they are saying...

3. Should I say something to my current manger and try to take a 2 weeks out from my current job to try out the new job offer yet keeping the current one (somehow, how?) ?

note: if I find that the new job is also expecting me to so such high end complex automation even with lower salary etc, then I could come back to the current job where the manger still will offer some time of 3 months before firing me or putting me on PIP.

My wife says since you got these 2 jobs, you must have some skills they saw else they wouldn't have hired you but honestly I don't have any experience of this "DevOps" job, been in traditional IT Database admin job which role is pretty much gone from the market.

I am lost, depressed on my situation, don't know what to do, and feeling pretty low right now and have no where to turn to. Please help. Yes, I have emergency savings and wife has a job so I don't have to worry about health insurance or loosing my home.

inverter
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by inverter » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:12 pm

I am a product manager and work closely with DevOps engineers. I don’t mean to belittle your situation, but if you were a competent DBA you can be a DevOps expert in 5 months if you put your mind to it.

Stay positive, get excited about the agility your bringing to the organization, and take some time to dig into the stuff!

Plus, in your new role, you aren’t responsible for a production database. :)

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TxAg
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by TxAg » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:13 pm

A positive attitude makes up for a lot. You aren't doing yourself any favors moping.

mathwhiz
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by mathwhiz » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:15 pm

Have you talked with your supervisor about training? Sending you to "boot camp" for a week or two to get your skills up to speed?

Hiring and then firing you reflects poorly on your supervisor. It makes it seem he made a bad choice in hiring. It reflects badly on the organization in that it can't train and keep talent and there is a sunk cost in wasting 3 months in you and then having to find someone else to replace you. And obviously, it is causing you stress.

If they won't train you and give you the tools to succeed, they are probably not the place you want to be. I'd do your best under the circumstances. Keep collecting that paycheck but keep your options open and know there is a high probability you may be fired and to have a Plan B ready to go in case that happens.

Seems you already have that Plan B but I wouldn't go there yet. Ask about training first.

aednichols
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by aednichols » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:16 pm

3 weeks into the job
Software engineer here. 3 weeks is nothing IMO. At some companies, it takes that long just to get set up with your workstation and all the right permissions.

At my current workplace I had the opportunity to learn a new-to-me, desirable programming language on the job and because of that I was not that productive until the 3-6 month mark. This was known and expected by management.
Plus, in your new role, you aren’t responsible for a production database. :)
Most likely OP is responsible for databases as a devops. They still need management, just not as much as they used to. (This is consistent with the DBA to devops transition.)

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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by rob » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:17 pm

Breath..... Sounds to me your getting some support with the change in roles, so seems to me your better trying to get thru it rather than trying to run. Yeah straight up DBA jobs are thin now but there is a lot of data related work that DBA gives a partial foundation into (data architect etc). Dev/Ops is a hot topic now and if you can hold on and pick up the learning for a bit, it's a better option in the longer term (longer in IT terms... meaning next handful of years). Maybe try and be stronger on the database components (redshift, postgress, whatever) and be workable on the other components.
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien

mortfree
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by mortfree » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:18 pm

Keep showing up until they tell you otherwise.

Follow all of the other advice in this thread too

fujiters
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by fujiters » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:27 pm

I'm sorry you're going through this.

I would not try to take the other job while taking 2 weeks of leave from a job you just started. Having a new guy who is still learning the ropes request 2 weeks off would likely raise suspicions/may just get denied, which would only increase the risk of being fired.

Since both jobs are devops, and your current job pays more, I'd be inclined to try to stay there and do the best you can to get up to speed. Maybe try working through relevant Pluralsight courses in the evenings? I've found many of them to be helpful in learning new technologies.

If you really think you're hopelessly in over your head and you wouldn't be at the other job, I'd accept the other offer and resign, explaining the situation to your manager to hopefully leave on good terms (especially because he may get contacted during a future job search).
“The purpose of the margin of safety is to render the forecast unnecessary.” -Benjamin Graham

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confusedinvestor
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by confusedinvestor » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:30 pm

I'm so stressed right now that I am having health issues. I understand I have to keep a positive attitude.

Given I have an option B now (another DevOps job), is there a way to "test out" option B now (to see if the Option B is less complex vs Option A) yet, keeping the Option A (current job) ?

My wife is telling me the same thing like others have posted here - Keep positive attitude, try to learn as much on the current job vs running away, keep drawing the paycheck and let them come back to you firing but my mind keeps drifting to this option B to "test" out the job in the other company.
mathwhiz wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:15 pm
Have you talked with your supervisor about training? Sending you to "boot camp" for a week or two to get your skills up to speed?


Seems you already have that Plan B but I wouldn't go there yet. Ask about training first.

mark39
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by mark39 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:33 pm

I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I was at just about the lowest point a person could be. I started a new job and felt completely lost with virtually no hope I could make it. Nobody would listen to me when I told them how I could not do the job. Everyone just took the psititive route and said I'd be fine. I knew otherwise. It got so bad I couldn't function in any way, shape or form in or out of work. One day after six weeks into the new job I went to a training meeting and we were all waiting for it to start in this little room when I remembered something I heard one time:

"When things get so bad that you are considering suicide, do whatever you have to do to get through the next 5 minutes and then deal with the next 5 when you have to." Yes, it was that bad for me. I'll never forget that feeling. Especially because i felt that same feeling 24 hours a day for the next several weeks because I got up from that meeting right then and left. Didn't say a word. Just got up, walked to my desk, set down the work stuff on my desk, and walked out. That was it. I was convinced I would never find another job. I did after a month and a half but I though it would never happen. I only tell you this because I know how you feel and it doesn't seem you are feeling quite as depressed as I was. Just know I can relate and hopefully that helps even if it's just a very, very small amount.

Looking back, unemployment is not somewhere you want to be. I ended up taking a job in another part of the state and a few years later I moved for another job out of state. I'm miserable now but at least I'm employed. Also, I have been told by a lot of people on this forum that while money is important, it certainly is not everything.

If you are truly, truly convinced you cannot succeed in this job I would recommend taking a job at a lower salary if your overall happiness would improve. At the very least it keeps you afloat since your spouse also works. Is there a way to speak with the other potential job to get better clarity on the expectations? If it's a better chance of success I'd certainly give it strong consideration. If not, do what you can to try and learn the new job over the next three months as best you can. There may even be other resources (online courses, forums, etc.) that may help you learn through different modalities and/or styles.

Try to get clarity on your current employers expectations. This should help you develop at least a bit of plan to learn what you need to learn and be successful. You're obviously an intelligent person so I'm not sure you should just write this job off yet.

If you are convinced you can't succeed at this job or the other one like I was, I would try your best to grind through the 3 months and see what happens. Three months is a decedent amount of time to get everything updated and look for another job should this one end. Even if it ends in your employment there ending, six paychecks has value. Of course, over that period of time you could get the hang of it and this is all a bump in the road.

Again, do what you can to keep the paychecks coming in. Make sure you have at least one person you can talk honestly with outside of work. Struggling during parts of life is okay. Seek and find out whatever resources you can find to increase your chances of success at this job and/or begin the process of looking for a new job. Try to find out more about the other opportunity. Some money is better than no money.

yohac
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by yohac » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:43 pm

confusedinvestor wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:30 pm
Given I have an option B now (another DevOps job), is there a way to "test out" option B now (to see if the Option B is less complex vs Option A) yet, keeping the Option A (current job) ?
I don't see how.

I know how you feel, being in a job where you feel lost. Here's the thing though, a long career in IT means there are periods where you simply have to bust it and remake yourself. 20 years in one role was way longer than I ever had, so your discomfort is understandable. Maybe DevOps isn't for you, maybe some kind of data visualization / reporting thing would be a better fit. But for now, you're getting paid to learn. Don't toss that away without having a plan.

HornedToad
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by HornedToad » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:51 pm

"The only way out is through".

You need to embrace that philosophy and not start looking for easier or alternative solutions and focus on putting your head down and learning as much as possible. If you don't learn in time and end up getting fired, then you'll be in a much better situation for the next job you take as you'll have already made progress on getting up to speed on DevOps.

You don't need to know everything about all things DevOps, you just need to focus on the most immediate activities (automation in the companies scripting language) and embrace it while trying to learn how it fits into the rest of the ecosystem.

It's going to suck and be uncomfortable, but by doubling down on your focus and not giving up you'll be in a much better situation.

rich126
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by rich126 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:52 pm

aednichols wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:16 pm
3 weeks into the job
Software engineer here. 3 weeks is nothing IMO. At some companies, it takes that long just to get set up with your workstation and all the right permissions.
LOL. Sadly that is very true, especially in larger companies.

Being stressed sucks. I hated one of my jobs and it was a very tough, demoralizing place for a good 18 months. And then the next job, in the same company, wasn't good for a year or so. Then fortunately it turned out well.

If you can do any training at home with books, videos online, etc. do it. Lots of training stuff out there and a lot of it is free online.

As to the stress, try to do some exercise, even walking, and watch something that takes your mind off stuff (action, suspense, etc.) or even play video games if that relieves stress.

People say toughed it out but having been in a bad position once, it can seem impossible. I've been lucky where I enjoyed my situation most of my career but most people end up in a bad place at least once. I know it gives me more sympathy when I hear others in similar situations. At long as you got a paycheck coming in, that is important. And constantly keep an eye out for your ideal job, whatever that is, since you never know when someone may need your skills.

good luck.

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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by JAZZISCOOL » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:58 pm

Deleted - duplicate post.
Last edited by JAZZISCOOL on Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by JAZZISCOOL » Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:59 pm

I am sorry you are going through this. Many of us have gone through awful and some very toxic work situations so know you are not alone. It sounds like their expectations are unrealistic. :(

Does your employer have an EAP (free counseling service)? Many companies offer these and you may be able to get 3-5 free sessions (often over the phone.) They may be able to give you some objective tips. There are also private therapists and/or career coaches out there who can assist you. You don't want the depression and stress to get worse and there is help out there.

Sometimes there is a bad "cultural fit" or things beyond your control. My sister went through a bad experience earlier this year where her new supervisor threatened to fire her after only 3 weeks on the job and totally inadequate training. The supervisor had a parent with cancer and was traveling a lot. My point is, you never know what other people are going through or what other political drama is going on behind the scenes. IMO, if you are getting "red flags" this early in the new job, it may be wise to look at a plan B. That is what I told my sister who did get fired a few weeks later.

Life is too short to be miserable and this stressed out IMO. If you have to take another job with a cut in pay, it may save you a lot of stress and may work out better for you. Then, you can reassess or take additional course work to find something else and will be able to focus better with less stress and depression.

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confusedinvestor
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by confusedinvestor » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:01 pm

mark39 wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:33 pm
I was in a similar situation a few years ago.
Yes, I feel like giving up in life. I will try to call my therapist to talk it over.

mark39 wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:33 pm

there a way to speak with the other potential job to get better clarity on the expectations?
I had a 15 mins call with the other employer manager but I couldn't figure out the exact expectations, it sounds like less complex vs my current one but my current manager/employer will give me 3 months to learn this new stuff and the new employer many not give me anything, I don't know,

Only way I'd know if I do that job for a week or so which I don't know how to do with keeping my current job.
mark39 wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:33 pm

Try to get clarity on your current employers expectations. This should help you develop at least a bit of plan to learn what you need to learn and be successful. You're obviously an intelligent person so I'm not sure you should just write this job off yet.

I will try to set up a lunch meet with my current employer manger and see if I can get more clarifications - in my last 1-1, he told me he expects me to learn all these tools in 3 months and do the job w/o any help or questions.

bampf
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by bampf » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:05 pm

I want to echo some of what people have said. Try and get through things just a little bit at a time. Change is hard and changing the way that you do things is even harder. Recognize that devops is just a fancy word for probably trying to do things you always did (most likely). Recognize that each career is evolving and that you have to evolve or you will be out of tech. Tech changes so fast. But, it really doesn't. The same problems I had as a new developer 20+ years ago exist today. Different tools. Different ways of solving for them, but, same problems.

You have to embrace a mode of constant learning and evolution. Recognize that they are paying you to learn a new skill set! How cool is that?

I don't want to diminish your feelings or try and tell you to suck it up. That really doesn't work that well. However, if you worked for me I would tell you to try and just do one little thing. Do that every day. Pretty soon you will be doing a couple little things. Then a bunch of little things.

The first few weeks into a new job stink. They always do. But, you can do this. More importantly, it will make you better and more valuable. New skills are very valuable. Lean into it!

ze233
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by ze233 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:07 pm

My advice is to sign up for a month with pluralsight and watch all the training courses relevant to your job. The courses are usually very easy to follow and will give you enough skills to be competent to keep your job. Experience will fill in the rest.

Good luck.

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JAZZISCOOL
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by JAZZISCOOL » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:10 pm

"I'm so stressed right now that I am having health issues."

"Yes, I feel like giving up in life. I will try to call my therapist to talk it over."

OP, please do contact your therapist. A job that is causing medical issues and feelings like this needs immediate attention IMO. Clinical depression (if that is the case), should not be ignored. Your therapist can help you through this situation and explore your options.

Also, every state and metro areas have crisis lines set up FYI.

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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:19 pm

ze233 wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:07 pm
My advice is to sign up for a month with pluralsight and watch all the training courses relevant to your job. The courses are usually very easy to follow and will give you enough skills to be competent to keep your job. Experience will fill in the rest.

Good luck.
+1.

If in person training by your colleagues is not working, take it upon yourself to find outside trainings. There are numerous online options.

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confusedinvestor
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by confusedinvestor » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:26 pm

Thanks. I will sign up for Pluralsight

I've singed up with some courses with Udemy and LinkedIn Learning for now, relevant to my current job.
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:19 pm
ze233 wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:07 pm
My advice is to sign up for a month with pluralsight and watch all the training courses relevant to your job. The courses are usually very easy to follow and will give you enough skills to be competent to keep your job. Experience will fill in the rest.

Good luck.
+1.

If in person training by your colleagues is not working, take it upon yourself to find outside trainings. There are numerous online options.

KlangFool
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by KlangFool » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:37 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safari_Books_Online

OP,

Check out Safari too. My County library has a subscription to this. So, I could access the books and training courses from O'Reilly. My megacorp has an enterprise subscription to this too.

KlangFool

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confusedinvestor
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by confusedinvestor » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:41 pm

Thanks for all the recommendations and advise.

Summary:

1. Don't mope , try to do one thing at a time and try to learn much technologies vs thinking of quitting every second

2. Sounds like there is no viable option of trying the second DevOps job yet keeping the current one. so if I find the 2nd job is same complex, I can return to the first one

3. If I take the second DevOps job with 30K less, I might be even worse off b/c the second company may even expect me to do and deliver the same things as current company and may not give me 3 months to ramp up.

Pros of current company:

- Manager set up 30 mins weekly with current 2 team members to show me the ropes of the current tools and technologies.
- Manager says he is willing to give me 3 months to "ramp up"
- They need some database management help even in this DevOps role which I can deliver - so I can bring some value vs not producing anything.
- Company is making $$, close commute, super flexible on hours and 2 team mates willing to help me.
- If I can survive and learn the tools, I will be super ready in the market for next 10 yrs and not worry about not getting a job

Cons of current company:

- Bleeding edge technologies, very complex implementations
- Manager is very hands on (more of a tech lead vs manager) and high expectations
- Asking to "automate" a database thing with his choice of tools which seems impossible for me to deliver
- Startup company - wants you to deliver on day 1
- I was hired as Sr DevOps role (unsure why?) - should I ask to "demote" myself to Jr DevOps role and ask for a pay cut ? so they can give me bit more time to learn and deliver ?

Dottie57
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by Dottie57 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:45 pm

Op, there is life after being a DBA.

I am glad you know about. udemy.com.

Suggest you really push for 3 months of pure training in the tools you use. The engineering team should be able to give you an overview of the systems and how it works And the technology involved.

I know it feels lousy now - I’ve had my project shipped to offshore and been forced into a new toolset several times. But if you get some training work can become fun and productive again.q

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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by JAZZISCOOL » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:04 pm

"I've singed up with some courses with Udemy and LinkedIn Learning for now, relevant to my current job."

This is good. My library has free LinkedIn Learning (aka Lynda.com) and I have taken a number of video courses. Sounds like you may already have a LinkedIn subscription but you may want to check to see what free resources your local library may offer as well (at some point). Udemy and others are good. Prices on Udemy are quite reasonable.

Another thought, your university/college alumni office may have some free career coaching or other resources available.

yohac
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by yohac » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:06 pm

confusedinvestor wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:41 pm
- Startup company - wants you to deliver on day 1
- I was hired as Sr DevOps role (unsure why?) - should I ask to "demote" myself to Jr DevOps role and ask for a pay cut ? so they can give me bit more time to learn and deliver ?
I would never ask for a cut in pay. Any normal company is not looking to fire people. As long as you are making a sincere effort, showing progress and getting along with people, your job is usually safe.

That said, normal rules don't apply to startups.

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leeks
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by leeks » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:17 pm

Stick with the new job you have started, stop thinking about other potential jobs for now, commit to giving it your all for the three months at least. I agree with your spouse, they hired you because you have a background that indicates you should be able to learn this stuff, just keep working at it. You can do it, it's okay that it feels hard and that they have high expectations, it is good for your brain to have challenges, you will catch up. Do not ask for a demotion!

Focus on stress reduction and taking care of yourself when you are not at work - exercise, playing with your kids, sleeping enough, eating well, etc. Your attitude does sound a bit defeatist, try to access more determination.

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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by blackwhisker » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:33 pm

mark39 wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:33 pm
I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I was at just about the lowest point a person could be. I started a new job and felt completely lost with virtually no hope I could make it. Nobody would listen to me when I told them how I could not do the job. Everyone just took the psititive route and said I'd be fine. I knew otherwise. It got so bad I couldn't function in any way, shape or form in or out of work. One day after six weeks into the new job I went to a training meeting and we were all waiting for it to start in this little room when I remembered something I heard one time:

"When things get so bad that you are considering suicide, do whatever you have to do to get through the next 5 minutes and then deal with the next 5 when you have to." Yes, it was that bad for me. I'll never forget that feeling. Especially because i felt that same feeling 24 hours a day for the next several weeks because I got up from that meeting right then and left. Didn't say a word. Just got up, walked to my desk, set down the work stuff on my desk, and walked out. That was it. I was convinced I would never find another job. I did after a month and a half but I though it would never happen. I only tell you this because I know how you feel and it doesn't seem you are feeling quite as depressed as I was. Just know I can relate and hopefully that helps even if it's just a very, very small amount.

Looking back, unemployment is not somewhere you want to be. I ended up taking a job in another part of the state and a few years later I moved for another job out of state. I'm miserable now but at least I'm employed. Also, I have been told by a lot of people on this forum that while money is important, it certainly is not everything.

If you are truly, truly convinced you cannot succeed in this job I would recommend taking a job at a lower salary if your overall happiness would improve. At the very least it keeps you afloat since your spouse also works. Is there a way to speak with the other potential job to get better clarity on the expectations? If it's a better chance of success I'd certainly give it strong consideration. If not, do what you can to try and learn the new job over the next three months as best you can. There may even be other resources (online courses, forums, etc.) that may help you learn through different modalities and/or styles.

Try to get clarity on your current employers expectations. This should help you develop at least a bit of plan to learn what you need to learn and be successful. You're obviously an intelligent person so I'm not sure you should just write this job off yet.

If you are convinced you can't succeed at this job or the other one like I was, I would try your best to grind through the 3 months and see what happens. Three months is a decedent amount of time to get everything updated and look for another job should this one end. Even if it ends in your employment there ending, six paychecks has value. Of course, over that period of time you could get the hang of it and this is all a bump in the road.

Again, do what you can to keep the paychecks coming in. Make sure you have at least one person you can talk honestly with outside of work. Struggling during parts of life is okay. Seek and find out whatever resources you can find to increase your chances of success at this job and/or begin the process of looking for a new job. Try to find out more about the other opportunity. Some money is better than no money.
I am amazed at how kind and helpful some of the bogleheads are on this forum! Thanks mark39.
Last edited by blackwhisker on Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Topic Author
confusedinvestor
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by confusedinvestor » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:36 pm

Thank you.

I wish I started this thread 2 weeks back.

Now, my mind is totally on the other offers.

1. The company B is sending the letter this week. I pursued b/c it felt bit less complex (less code / less automation) vs current company.

2. I lined up an onsite interview with another company C which seems less complex and said will offer vendor training.

well, sounds like, I should have focus on my current job and give my best for the next 3 months vs thinking of quitting to other options (which could be good or bad or worse vs current as no one knows)

well....I will go tomorrow at work and try to learn as much as possible and give all in...
leeks wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:17 pm
Stick with the new job you have started, stop thinking about other potential jobs for now, commit to giving it your all for the three months at least. I agree with your spouse, they hired you because you have a background that indicates you should be able to learn this stuff, just keep working at it. You can do it, it's okay that it feels hard and that they have high expectations, it is good for your brain to have challenges, you will catch up. Do not ask for a demotion!

Focus on stress reduction and taking care of yourself when you are not at work - exercise, playing with your kids, sleeping enough, eating well, etc. Your attitude does sound a bit defeatist, try to access more determination.

Bfwolf
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by Bfwolf » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:49 pm

I think your (new) approach is correct. Forget about the other job offers and focus on the job you have, learning the skills you need in any way possible. And definitely talk to your therapist as often as necessary.

When you're going through hell, keep going!

Perhaps you could make a commitment to yourself to update this thread once a week with your progress. It might feel good to note what progress you've made and you will get good advice/reassurance from this forum.

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TxAg
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by TxAg » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:59 pm

TxAg wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:13 pm
A positive attitude makes up for a lot. You aren't doing yourself any favors moping.
After reading through the thread, I hope this didn't come across too harshly. Sounds like some counseling would be helpful. I wish you luck.

Topic Author
confusedinvestor
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by confusedinvestor » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:06 pm

Moping is exactly what I was doing but I understand now it must stop.

Thank you again for your advise. Well taken and I'll act on it.
TxAg wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:59 pm
TxAg wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:13 pm
A positive attitude makes up for a lot. You aren't doing yourself any favors moping.
After reading through the thread, I hope this didn't come across too harshly. Sounds like some counseling would be helpful. I wish you luck.

anhonymous
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by anhonymous » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:07 pm

One question for you OP. Is Dev Ips an area that has future potential? If not I would consider spending the training time on something more cutting edge. Seems like your company is a startup with cutting edge technologies so you probably have that going for you... just a consideration otherwise

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unclescrooge
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by unclescrooge » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:12 pm

aednichols wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:16 pm
3 weeks into the job
Software engineer here. 3 weeks is nothing IMO. At some companies, it takes that long just to get set up with your workstation and all the right permissions.

At my current workplace I had the opportunity to learn a new-to-me, desirable programming language on the job and because of that I was not that productive until the 3-6 month mark. This was known and expected by management.
Plus, in your new role, you aren’t responsible for a production database. :)
Most likely OP is responsible for databases as a devops. They still need management, just not as much as they used to. (This is consistent with the DBA to devops transition.)
+1

I work in data analytics.

I see a lot of people come in and quit at the 3-4 week mark. They are probably feeling overwhelmed and have a back up jib5 that they take.

The truth is that it takes 4-7 months to ramp up. And feeling useless for the first 100 days is something you need to get used to.

Grit is part of succeeding at any job. If you quit now, you're not doing yourself any favors.

Especially in IT, where your skills will be obsolete in 5 years.

Stick to it. If you get fired from this job, and the next, I promise you'll be on sound footing for the the 3rd job.

indi
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by indi » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:20 pm

I would totally stay in DevOps and not try to go backwards in your career. The very nature of IT is that it's always evolving. If you stay in DevOps, you've got a natural transition to cloud center of excellence. Learn AWS or Azure and your earning potential is huge. Set up an alert on LinkedIn and see how many jobs are available for cloud architects. It's ridiculous how many companies need this role. With Oracle switching to dbms as a service, you will have strong career growth by broadening your infrastructure ops experience. I'd also ask manager to send you to conferences and training. I wouldn't be shy about it. With 3.5% unemployment, you have many options.

Emg
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by Emg » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:25 pm

ConfusedInvestor,

You've gotten lots of good advice -- I just thought I'd throw in another perspective. I have been a software developer for almost 40 years. Started out with keypunch cards . . . . mainframes . . . client server . . . web . . . etc.

IT current skills do turn over from time to time. Sometimes employers take the attitude that they won't hire anyone who doesn't already have experience in the "new thing". I had a terrible time making the switch away from mainframes (cobol to C, VB, C#, Mainframe OS to unix to Microsoft, etc) back in the 90s -- not because I couldn't learn the technology but because I couldn't get anyone to hire me despite completing classes and certifications (at my own expense.) I did manage eventually, of course. This is all part of managing a career in IT.

I can understand your stress and I'm not trying to trivialize it. But you have a chance to add to your basket of skills. Grab it! Give it a year. If you are still unhappy, you can always try something else. Maybe even consider leaving the technical side of things if you don't care for the pressure of restocking your skillset every few years. I can't tell you how many times I've watched "hot skills" turn into "undesireable antiques" . It takes persistence and effort but if you were a DBA you definitely have the brainpower to get on top of this!

Topic Author
confusedinvestor
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by confusedinvestor » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:39 pm

Yes, 20+ yrs Oracle DBA and found myself out of a job now and thus got into DevOps + Cloud

However, I am totally lost in my current DevOps job.

Looks like every BH who posted on my thread is suggesting me to stay on my current job and try it out for 3 months vs Quitting to Company B (hoping that would be bit less complex DevOps job)
indi wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:20 pm
I would totally stay in DevOps and not try to go backwards in your career. The very nature of IT is that it's always evolving. If you stay in DevOps, you've got a natural transition to cloud center of excellence. Learn AWS or Azure and your earning potential is huge. Set up an alert on LinkedIn and see how many jobs are available for cloud architects. It's ridiculous how many companies need this role. With Oracle switching to dbms as a service, you will have strong career growth by broadening your infrastructure ops experience. I'd also ask manager to send you to conferences and training. I wouldn't be shy about it. With 3.5% unemployment, you have many options.

naturetech
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by naturetech » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:42 pm

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your situation. But don't worry, "DevOps" is not really tough. It's just a methodology. Even in DevOps there are roles which need specialization in DBA tasks, so ask your manager about these tasks.In future all jobs will be of similar kind of roles, so instead of trying to find another job and land in same situation few year down the lane, I would suggest stick to DevOps.

Talk to your manager and explain that you are new to "DevOps" but tell him that you will give 110% and do everything in your control to learn the skills required for "DevOps".

Below are few tech stack used in DevOps

1) Cloud provider(AWS, Azure, GCP)
2) Infrastructure as code(Terraform) :- This is where you might be spending most of your time in DevOps. Writing DBA related code.
3) CI/CD(Continuous Integration, Continuous Delivery) :- Jenkins.
4) Docker
5) Programming Language(Python, Ruby)
6) Configuration management tools(Chef, Puppet, Ansible)

Best resources to learn about these skills are below.

1) Pluralsight
2) LinuxAcademy
3) Acloudguru
4) Safari
5) Udemy(Sometimes you get 90% on courses, buy during that time)

Please don't hesitate to PM message me if you need further assistance. If you are using "AWS", I can help you in advance but in general I might be able to address your general queries and point you at right resources.

All the best.

mathwhiz
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by mathwhiz » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:03 pm

Stick to it. If you get fired from this job, and the next, I promise you'll be on sound footing for the the 3rd job.
''

This.

Make. Them. Fire. You.

Collect the paychecks and LEARN as much as possible for the next job.

I don't know how to psychologically help you but maybe if you consider that this job is a 3 month internship like if you were back in college and knew nothing and was just doing everything possible to get experience in your field that it may help you.

At the end of the 3 months, you will be in a better position to know whether you want to remain at the company or they will make the decision for you. But you will have gained invaluable experience to put on your resume for the next job that may be a better cultural fit.

Compartmentalize the stress. Give it 3 months and then reevaluate. It will be OK. The worst they can do is fire you and you are getting other interviews.

It'll be OK.

Bobby206
Posts: 153
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by Bobby206 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:27 pm

Almost every single job is difficult at first. Work your butt off, show them you want to learn, show them you want to be the best employee there, and I am confident things will work out fine even if you don't have it all dialed in within 3 months exactly. I would not go to that lower pay job.

Topic Author
confusedinvestor
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by confusedinvestor » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:54 pm

Thanks for offering your help.

I've PM'd you with few additional questions.

This startup is using Azure, IBM Cloud, a bit of AWS but all using Terraform, Ansible, Jenkins - everything is managed using "code"

Presently, my manager expects me to built a mssql cluster using terraform and ansible pull

naturetech wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:42 pm
Hi,


Please don't hesitate to PM message me if you need further assistance. If you are using "AWS", I can help you in advance but in general I might be able to address your general queries and point you at right resources.

All the best.

LeftCoastIV
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by LeftCoastIV » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:10 pm

This sounds like a great break for you actually. DevOps/automation skills are more aligned with modern development and deployment practices. You are in essence being paid to modernize your skill set. Learn everything you can. It may feel awkward to ask a 25 year old how to do something, but don’t sweat it.

Good luck!

gr7070
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by gr7070 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:18 pm

First and foremost get a counselor!

Get 30 minutes exercise every day. Very important for mental health. Take magnesium supplements, too.

Option B isn't an option - it's more or less the same job you have for less money. Forget that; it's not helping you.

An option C could be an option, if it's something you're truly equipped for. However, I do like the unanimous advice you've been given here; including from your wife who knows you and your situation very well.

Get a counselor and take the other needed steps to help yourself and you'll do very well. You're a tech professional and are more than capable.

harrychan
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by harrychan » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:38 pm

Stay on it. If you leave, not only will you fail at your job but you'll become a quitter. What will happen if you go to job B and it turns out there also is a learning curve? Are you going to look for another 'easier' job? Truth is, in the IT world, nothing is easy or given. What you have here is a manager that is willing to work with you and devote two others to help you learn. One major issue that is holding you back is your confidence. I mean, look at your username. I don't have an immediate answer for this but please trust your capabilities and what brought you to this point. You have 20 years of experience in the IT world.

I also had imposter syndrome when I left network engineering where I've been for 14 years and became a program manager in healthcare IT. I was never in healthcare nor was I ever a project manager but I figured it out. I learned as much as I could, asked the right questions and contributed. In 2.5 years, I become one of the top managers and led a nationwide initiative. It can be done. You do need to shift your mindset.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.

student
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by student » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:42 pm

mark39 wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 5:33 pm
I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I was at just about the lowest point a person could be. I started a new job and felt completely lost with virtually no hope I could make it. Nobody would listen to me when I told them how I could not do the job. Everyone just took the psititive route and said I'd be fine. I knew otherwise. It got so bad I couldn't function in any way, shape or form in or out of work. One day after six weeks into the new job I went to a training meeting and we were all waiting for it to start in this little room when I remembered something I heard one time:

"When things get so bad that you are considering suicide, do whatever you have to do to get through the next 5 minutes and then deal with the next 5 when you have to." Yes, it was that bad for me. I'll never forget that feeling. Especially because i felt that same feeling 24 hours a day for the next several weeks because I got up from that meeting right then and left. Didn't say a word. Just got up, walked to my desk, set down the work stuff on my desk, and walked out. That was it. I was convinced I would never find another job. I did after a month and a half but I though it would never happen. I only tell you this because I know how you feel and it doesn't seem you are feeling quite as depressed as I was. Just know I can relate and hopefully that helps even if it's just a very, very small amount.

Looking back, unemployment is not somewhere you want to be. I ended up taking a job in another part of the state and a few years later I moved for another job out of state. I'm miserable now but at least I'm employed. Also, I have been told by a lot of people on this forum that while money is important, it certainly is not everything.

If you are truly, truly convinced you cannot succeed in this job I would recommend taking a job at a lower salary if your overall happiness would improve. At the very least it keeps you afloat since your spouse also works. Is there a way to speak with the other potential job to get better clarity on the expectations? If it's a better chance of success I'd certainly give it strong consideration. If not, do what you can to try and learn the new job over the next three months as best you can. There may even be other resources (online courses, forums, etc.) that may help you learn through different modalities and/or styles.

Try to get clarity on your current employers expectations. This should help you develop at least a bit of plan to learn what you need to learn and be successful. You're obviously an intelligent person so I'm not sure you should just write this job off yet.

If you are convinced you can't succeed at this job or the other one like I was, I would try your best to grind through the 3 months and see what happens. Three months is a decedent amount of time to get everything updated and look for another job should this one end. Even if it ends in your employment there ending, six paychecks has value. Of course, over that period of time you could get the hang of it and this is all a bump in the road.

Again, do what you can to keep the paychecks coming in. Make sure you have at least one person you can talk honestly with outside of work. Struggling during parts of life is okay. Seek and find out whatever resources you can find to increase your chances of success at this job and/or begin the process of looking for a new job. Try to find out more about the other opportunity. Some money is better than no money.
Very nice post. Thanks.

MtnTraveler
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by MtnTraveler » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:49 pm

20 years is a really long time to be doing the same thing and then have to change course. I think because you've used a certain skill set for so long you were probably a mentor of sorts and you had some clout, etc. Now it's like you are starting back at Day 1 of your career but you feel that you should still be producing like someone with 20 yrs experience. As crazy as it sounds, I think you've landed in a really, really good place. You have a manager that realizes that you kind-of don't know what you are doing and he/she is willing to give you time to learn. You have co-workers who are willing to help you learn what you don't know. So many people would love to be in that position. While your manager said he/she was giving you 90 days what they are most likely really saying is that they want to see progress, they want to see you learning, and they want to see that you will stick with it. I really, really highly doubt that not knowing 100% of the new job tools/skills/etc at the end of 90 days will result in you being fired. If you are making good progress they are going to keep you. They saw enough in you to think you would be a good fit for their group in time. I don't expect any new hire (even with 20 yrs experience) to know it all at 90 days but they should be making progress.

Definitely call your therapist and discuss all this because your life did recently get turned upside down and change sucks. Embrace the suck. It won't last forever. When people are explaining things to you and you aren't understanding ask questions, write things down. That will show your new team that you do really want to learn which will pay dividends in the end. Basically don't give up or run away because things got hard. Look at this as an opportunity and in the future remembering how this whole thing sucked at the time is going to make you a more empathetic colleague in the future. You've got this!

Caduceus
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by Caduceus » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:27 am

I think this depends on whether your current field (DevOps) is one with good prospects. If it is, then I think you've landed yourself a pretty good gig, don't you think? It seems your employer is willing to give you time to learn this entire new field and PAY you for it. And you have been very honest about your lack of experience in this field, which he also already knows. If your manager is asking you to deliver something you can't deliver, and at the same time he is also communicating he understands you don't have the skills yet - you have to communicate to him those two beliefs are incompatible. You will need more time to get up to speed.

If they've invested three months in you, in three months time, they are not likely to let you go just to train someone from scratch again. I would say to give this your best shot if this is a field with good prospects - it's like a paid apprencticeship. I would identify what you need to get better at your current job fast, and ask for it aggressively. If 30 minutes training is not enough, say it: "There is no way the training you are providing me with will allow me to become competent in 3 months. If I am to have a shot at this, this is what I need: (a) ... (b) ... (c) ... " Show them you are trying hard and I believe your effort will be rewarded, even if you are still unproductive after three months.

You've been at your old job so long - I think it's natural to experience some stress in a new role. That is all to be expected and hopefully it will get better soon.

Leemiller
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by Leemiller » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:44 am

Op, I’m not in your field, but my last two jobs were very much like being thrown in the deep end with none of the training and professional development I was promised. At least you’re actually getting real help. I would say one difference between you, and me is that I would never let so much anxiety show to my manager. Why would you even consider having lunch to ask if you can still ask questions three months from now? None wants to hear that from an employee.

Now that I’m a manager I can see why part of the reason I’ve been promoted is I appear “fearless” because I’m careful about showing anxiety. I also work extremely hard to catch up in new situations. I put in the hours and it pays off.

I have a feeling that you are stressing out your manager by showing so much anxiety. I’d strongly recommend you get some control on your emotions and try to be positive and grateful for the learning opportunity. You can go to another job, but I don’t understand why you think they won’t expect you to be ready day one just because there is a salary or complexity difference. I echo the exercise recommendation mentioned above, but think the best thing you can do is start presenting a different attitude to those at your workplace. Good luck. Personally, ever time I’ve pushed through this pain of learning I’ve ended up in a better place.

Invictus002
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by Invictus002 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:09 am

Wait a minute. You said you are an oracle DBA with 20+ years.

Imo, oracle dba jobs are plenty and they are always in demand. I am surprised that you are unable to land a permanent or contract DBA job on today's market.

I am a DBA manager and I am trying to hire DBAs and it so hard to find a good one at the right price. They are demanding premium pay, because organizations are paying them and value them.

Many in my organization are killing themselves to become/promoted to Oracle DBAs.

It looks like there may be some other issue here...

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Tamarind
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Re: New Job, Depressed, Money issues

Post by Tamarind » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:13 am

I recently started a new job (a career move I've been working towards for several years) and I knew I would have a steep learning curve. There have definitely been days when I felt like my task was not possible. It really helped me to speak with a colleague with a couple more years experience in the job and clearly a high performer, because he listened and said "Yep, that might not be possible. But you are trying all the things I would try. Keep at it!"

I think a big contributor to the pain you are having is the move from big company to smaller company. At a big company, the tasks you are assigned are often known quantities and the company knows how to do them already. At a small company, especially a start-up, the manager might not know how or if the task should be done. You're hired not to absorb the answer, but to figure it out as best you can. It might be that in three months (or less) you'll say to your manager with confidence "We should not do the thing you asked me to do. Instead we should do X." Personally this is why I strongly prefer small companies, but I bet it's adding to your stress.

Since you have peers with more experience, next time you have a session with them, ask how they might approach the automation task you have been set. Put your database experience and their automation experience together and see what you can figure out together.

Since this is the most urgent thing your manager has asked for during your ramp, focus on it. Talk to coworkers, view training videos on the technologies and practice writing code, ask questions on technical forums. Remember that your job right now is not to do devops but to learn how to do devops. Spend as much time as you can breaking down the problem into pieces and then addressing each piece.

I do think it's also a good idea to talk to your therapist about coping strategies for panic. If you are obsessively thinking about how to escape this job, then you are not able to think about the real technical problem you need to solve.

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