EverSafe and cognitive decline study

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GerryL
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EverSafe and cognitive decline study

Post by GerryL » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:26 pm

I am considering volunteering for a study (through Oregon Health Sciences University/ORCATECH) that seeks “to examine how, or whether, financial behaviors change with age.” The tool that will be used to collect data is the EverSafe service that helps seniors and their families keep track of changes to the individual’s online behavior when dealing with personal finance. The people conducting the study will get only non-financial data from EverSafe.

I’m eligible to participate and motivated by my concerns about the issue of cognitive decline. I have spoken with the study coordinator and have read the consent form. I’ve been assured that EverSafe would not have access to my accounts. I’ve tried reading up about the company. I’m wondering whether anyone on this forum has any experience with EverSafe.

About the study: https://www.eversafe.com/orcatech-efind-study/?sid=95

fourwheelcycle
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Re: EverSafe and cognitive decline study

Post by fourwheelcycle » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:12 am

It will be interesting to read your progress reports if you decide to participate in the study and use EverSafe's financial monitoring service.

I looked at their website. I could not find any description of exactly how they obtain the information they use to monitor your finances, but it seems they would need full access to your credit reporting accounts and/or your banking and investment accounts. Even with access to your credit reporting accounts I don't see how they could track individual deposits and withdrawals, which they say they monitor. This makes me think they will ask for your banking and investment login credentials. They talk about using cookies, so maybe they are getting info directly from your computer (how?), or maybe they are setting up their computer to be recognized by your banking and investment websites as one of your "recognized" computers.

Overall, EverSafe's service sounds like a tech-based, third party alternative to the old fashioned, and at least equally risky, solution of having a trusted family member or attorney become fully involved in your finances. Many years ago my father asked me to begin doing his taxes. About three years ago he asked me to take over all of his investments (I consolidated everything at Vanguard). Just this fall, with his permission, I changed his mailing address to my own and now I manage 100% of his mail and finances, bill paying, Medicare supplemental insurance enrollment, pension and social security activity, etc. It is a big task for me, and I maintain close communication with my siblings to be sure they are aware of what I am doing and comfortable with my role.

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sperry8
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Re: EverSafe and cognitive decline study

Post by sperry8 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:33 am

fourwheelcycle wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:12 am
It will be interesting to read your progress reports if you decide to participate in the study and use EverSafe's financial monitoring service.

I looked at their website. I could not find any description of exactly how they obtain the information they use to monitor your finances, but it seems they would need full access to your credit reporting accounts and/or your banking and investment accounts. Even with access to your credit reporting accounts I don't see how they could track individual deposits and withdrawals, which they say they monitor. This makes me think they will ask for your banking and investment login credentials. They talk about using cookies, so maybe they are getting info directly from your computer (how?), or maybe they are setting up their computer to be recognized by your banking and investment websites as one of your "recognized" computers.

Overall, EverSafe's service sounds like a tech-based, third party alternative to the old fashioned, and at least equally risky, solution of having a trusted family member or attorney become fully involved in your finances. Many years ago my father asked me to begin doing his taxes. About three years ago he asked me to take over all of his investments (I consolidated everything at Vanguard). Just this fall, with his permission, I changed his mailing address to my own and now I manage 100% of his mail and finances, bill paying, Medicare supplemental insurance enrollment, pension and social security activity, etc. It is a big task for me, and I maintain close communication with my siblings to be sure they are aware of what I am doing and comfortable with my role.
Kudos to your Dad for having the sense to allow you to do this. Be sure to get a power of attorney while he's able. My father did the same with me. But sadly, many older folks think they can still handle it themselves when they have lost the capacity.
BH contest results: 2018: #150 of 493 | 2017: #516 of 647 | 2016: #121 of 610 | 2015: #18 of 552 | 2014: #225 of 503 | 2013: #383 of 433 | 2012: #366 of 410 | 2011: #113 of 369 | 2010: #53 of 282

fourwheelcycle
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Re: EverSafe and cognitive decline study

Post by fourwheelcycle » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:57 am

sperry8 wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:33 am
Be sure to get a power of attorney while he's able. My father did the same with me. But sadly, many older folks think they can still handle it themselves when they have lost the capacity.
Right. My father designated me as his DPOA when he asked me to begin doing his taxes. He had previously designated me as executor for his will. He has limited but entirely adequate savings. His will divides everything equally among his children. There is no home to sell because he sold it when he moved to a retirement facility. I have set up myself and my siblings as equal TOD beneficiaries for his Vanguard account. His banking accounts are joint with me and I will distribute the remaining balances after I pay his final expenses. It appears with this setup I will not have to probate his will.

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sperry8
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Re: EverSafe and cognitive decline study

Post by sperry8 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:39 pm

fourwheelcycle wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:57 am
sperry8 wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:33 am
Be sure to get a power of attorney while he's able. My father did the same with me. But sadly, many older folks think they can still handle it themselves when they have lost the capacity.
Right. My father designated me as his DPOA when he asked me to begin doing his taxes. He had previously designated me as executor for his will. He has limited but entirely adequate savings. His will divides everything equally among his children. There is no home to sell because he sold it when he moved to a retirement facility. I have set up myself and my siblings as equal TOD beneficiaries for his Vanguard account. His banking accounts are joint with me and I will distribute the remaining balances after I pay his final expenses. It appears with this setup I will not have to probate his will.
Make sure to get all his passwords to everything (SS, Banks, Social Media, etc.). POA ends upon death, but if you have passwords you can likely tie up all loose ends without probate if his assets are easily accessible online.
BH contest results: 2018: #150 of 493 | 2017: #516 of 647 | 2016: #121 of 610 | 2015: #18 of 552 | 2014: #225 of 503 | 2013: #383 of 433 | 2012: #366 of 410 | 2011: #113 of 369 | 2010: #53 of 282

chessknt
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Re: EverSafe and cognitive decline study

Post by chessknt » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:41 pm

The study is irb approved which means it has passed ohsu's standards for ethical human research. What are you concerned might happen? Did you ask the consenting researcher about your concerns?

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GerryL
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Re: EverSafe and cognitive decline study

Post by GerryL » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:52 pm

chessknt wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:41 pm
The study is irb approved which means it has passed ohsu's standards for ethical human research. What are you concerned might happen? Did you ask the consenting researcher about your concerns?
My concern is not with the study but with the company. I asked whether I would need to give EverSafe access to my accounts/passwords. She said "no," but I can't see how they can monitor activity if they don't have passwords. And the EverSafe website is rather vague. I intend to call the company next week to get details about how their service works.

Bottom line question: Am I more concerned about cognitive decline or about yet another company I deal with getting hacked?

chessknt
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Re: EverSafe and cognitive decline study

Post by chessknt » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:04 pm

GerryL wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:52 pm
chessknt wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:41 pm
The study is irb approved which means it has passed ohsu's standards for ethical human research. What are you concerned might happen? Did you ask the consenting researcher about your concerns?
My concern is not with the study but with the company. I asked whether I would need to give EverSafe access to my accounts/passwords. She said "no," but I can't see how they can monitor activity if they don't have passwords. And the EverSafe website is rather vague. I intend to call the company next week to get details about how their service works.

Bottom line question: Am I more concerned about cognitive decline or about yet another company I deal with getting hacked?
If that is truly concern you should move on. Nobody can guarantee information safety and if they didn't explain that it is deidentified then there is a small risk that you don't seem willing to take.

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Re: EverSafe and cognitive decline study

Post by Fallible » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:26 pm

GerryL wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:26 pm
... The people conducting the study will get only non-financial data from EverSafe.

...I have spoken with the study coordinator and have read the consent form. I’ve been assured that EverSafe would not have access to my accounts. I’ve tried reading up about the company. ...
What is the study coordinator's background and qualifications for this work? Who are the other people involved, their backgrounds, education, experiences, comments that would convince you they are trustworthy and can correctly judge cognitive decline and on what basis? On the site, I see the contact person and a Ph.D. at the bottom of one page, but nothing else. Do you know what the questionnaires will ask and can you see them before you enroll? How exactly do they determine cognitive decline? Have you read all of the Privacy Policy and Terms of Use? What guarantee would you have that they can be trusted with your personal financial information, including SSN?

In a brief search, I found this from EverSafe, but nothing that would answer my questions: www.eversafe.com.
John Bogle on his often bumpy road to low-cost indexing: "When a door closes, if you look long enough and hard enough, if you're strong enough, you'll find a window that opens."

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Re: EverSafe and cognitive decline study

Post by Northern Flicker » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:40 pm

sperry8 wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:39 pm
fourwheelcycle wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:57 am
sperry8 wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:33 am
Be sure to get a power of attorney while he's able. My father did the same with me. But sadly, many older folks think they can still handle it themselves when they have lost the capacity.
Right. My father designated me as his DPOA when he asked me to begin doing his taxes. He had previously designated me as executor for his will. He has limited but entirely adequate savings. His will divides everything equally among his children. There is no home to sell because he sold it when he moved to a retirement facility. I have set up myself and my siblings as equal TOD beneficiaries for his Vanguard account. His banking accounts are joint with me and I will distribute the remaining balances after I pay his final expenses. It appears with this setup I will not have to probate his will.
Make sure to get all his passwords to everything (SS, Banks, Social Media, etc.). POA ends upon death, but if you have passwords you can likely tie up all loose ends without probate if his assets are easily accessible online.
This is a really bad idea. It is reasonable to shut down social media accounts, but financial account passwords should neither be shared nor used to circumvent the processes for settling an estate.
Index fund investor since 1987.

Jackson12
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Re: EverSafe and cognitive decline study

Post by Jackson12 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:18 pm

On a related note and for what it worth, , you might consider looking at this site https://www.aptwebstudy.org/welcome

It’s a series of free tests, some considered challenging for most individuals ( whether or not they have cognitive decline) . You’ll get regular and individualized results over time, alerting you to early cognitive decline when there’s still time to finalize an effective back- up plan.

The study is funded by The National Institute on Aging and the Webstudy monitors participants “through regular online memory testing, which they can do from the comfort and convenience of their own home and then matches them to Alzheimer’s disease prevention trials that they might consider. The APT Webstudy , as noted on the site, “does not require participants to take medication and is not a clinical trial itself....it’s an “observational” study, looking for (or observing ) changes over time in measures of memory functions”.

Anyway, it’s another possible resource and there’s a FAQ page and a contact number for more info that’s available at he link given above.

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GerryL
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Re: EverSafe and cognitive decline study

Post by GerryL » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:24 pm

Fallible wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:26 pm
GerryL wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:26 pm
... The people conducting the study will get only non-financial data from EverSafe.

...I have spoken with the study coordinator and have read the consent form. I’ve been assured that EverSafe would not have access to my accounts. I’ve tried reading up about the company. ...
What is the study coordinator's background and qualifications for this work? Who are the other people involved, their backgrounds, education, experiences, comments that would convince you they are trustworthy and can correctly judge cognitive decline and on what basis? On the site, I see the contact person and a Ph.D. at the bottom of one page, but nothing else. Do you know what the questionnaires will ask and can you see them before you enroll? How exactly do they determine cognitive decline? Have you read all of the Privacy Policy and Terms of Use? What guarantee would you have that they can be trusted with your personal financial information, including SSN?

In a brief search, I found this from EverSafe, but nothing that would answer my questions: www.eversafe.com.
The study is through a major university and an entity (ORCATECH) that partners tech companies with researchers to explore how technology can be used to find solutions for aging and healthcare issues. My former employer has been involved with them. Per the consent form, the researchers would not have access to any financial data. They only see the alerts that are generated by participants' online financial activities. Aggregating data to determine whether monitoring software can be use to identify changes in people's financial behaviors due to possible cognitive decline.

I'm okay with the study. I'm cautious about how much info I would need to supply to the monitoring service. I was wondering whether anyone here has had experience with EverSafe. I do plan on calling them directly next week.

fourwheelcycle
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Re: EverSafe and cognitive decline study

Post by fourwheelcycle » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:12 pm

Northern Flicker wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:40 pm
...... financial account passwords should neither be shared nor used to circumvent the processes for settling an estate.
I agree. Ninety percent of my father's savings is at Vanguard. I have full transaction authorization for his account, but Vanguard will lock the account when my father dies and no one, including me, will be able to transact on it unless they are appointed as executor of his estate. I have set up the account as 100% TOD in equal shares to my father's children. The other 10% of my father's savings are in his checking and savings accounts, both of which are joint with me, for which I have my own separate login credentials.

clip651
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Re: EverSafe and cognitive decline study

Post by clip651 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:39 am

fourwheelcycle wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:12 pm
Northern Flicker wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:40 pm
...... financial account passwords should neither be shared nor used to circumvent the processes for settling an estate.
I agree. Ninety percent of my father's savings is at Vanguard. I have full transaction authorization for his account, but Vanguard will lock the account when my father dies and no one, including me, will be able to transact on it unless they are appointed as executor of his estate. I have set up the account as 100% TOD in equal shares to my father's children. The other 10% of my father's savings are in his checking and savings accounts, both of which are joint with me, for which I have my own separate login credentials.
You are correct that Vanguard will lock the account on the account holder's death. But if the account is TOD, they aren't looking to talk to the executor. They are looking to talk to the beneficiary to transfer the contents of the account to them. There is no need for an executor to be involved, providing the beneficiary knows to contact Vanguard about the account. (If the executor and beneficiary are the same person, there's no need to wait to be declared executor brew contacting Vanguard as a beneficiary.)

And I agree, definitely don't use the deceased person's financial account passwords after the account holder has died.

cj

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GerryL
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Re: EverSafe and cognitive decline study

Post by GerryL » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:26 pm

UPDATE
I enrolled in the study. Before the recent holiday, a member of the study team came to my home to conduct cognitive tests (almost 2 hours!) to set a baseline. The experience was very interesting. I then enrolled in EverSafe. I decided to link only my credit union account, not any of my investment or credit card accounts, and the study coordinator said that was fine. They are really looking at day-to-day activity.

I can look at the dashboard to see activity on my account, which pretty much mirrors what I see when I log into my credit union except that I can see tabs for alerts and red flags that may indicate unusual or problematic activity. Before going through with this study, I contacted EverSafe to ask about how they are able to access my account info. They told me that when I link an account they get a token from the financial institution and my login info is not saved. They cannot execute any transactions.

In about a year, I will undergo cognitive testing again. I asked how they can expect to use the activity data from a single year to gauge cognitive decline and was told that this is essentially a pilot test to determine whether the kind of data EverSafe produces can be used to identify cognitive decline.

Speckles
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Re: EverSafe and cognitive decline study

Post by Speckles » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:29 am

I am looking forward to hearing about your experiences.

One question that you might consider posing to the research team is whether their research pertains to just a certain type of cognitive decline or several different types.

For example, some neurological diseases affect mainly memory while others impact judgement or impulsivity. The outwardly-observable actions would probably be different. In the former (memory), there may be an increasing number of overdue bills. In the later (judgement) there may be signs of compulsive gambling or falling for scams or sending money overseas to phoney princes.

To me, it would be very interesting to know if the researchers think they can catch it all.

Good luck and thank you for scouting the territory for us all.

Specks

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