Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

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ras4250
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by ras4250 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:01 am

bluquark wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:39 pm
I don’t see much reason to use Apple Pay now that my BoA credit card has RFID payment chip. It’s the same practical security level (cannot be skimmed) but faster since Apple Pay makes me do a pointless double-click and FaceID thing for security theater. As for the Apple physical credit card, the cashback is lackluster.

I do use Apple iTunes payment for magazine/newspaper subscriptions because Apple guarantees you can cancel without making a phone call.
I believe the biggest difference is that with Apple Pay a unique one time card number is created and used for the purchase that the retailer retains in its system. When a card with a RFID payment chip is used the retailer has your actual card number. If the retailer is hacked the bad guys get your card info. If you used ApplePay what they get is useless.

Unless the RFID technology has changed recently to also use one time numbers.

ras4250
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by ras4250 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:05 am

lakpr wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:38 pm
@dollar_elbow,

Count me as a newbie on the intricacies of using Apple Pay. What happens if I disable Touch ID or Face ID on the Apple iPhone? I am a bit privacy obsessed that I don’t want to unlock the iPhone with my finger print or face image /store them in the phone. I prefer and use either a passcode or a pass phrase to unlock and use the phone. Does this mean I can’t use Apple Pay?

I am curious and willing to give it a try but would NOT at the condition of having to enable Touch ID or Face ID
It is my understanding that it’s not your actual fingerprint or face stored on the phone. It’s an calculated hash based on the print or face. Plus it is stored separately on the Secure Enclave. No known reports of that being hacked or used for anything harmful.

I would think using a credit card without ApplePay would be more of a “privacy risk” then anything.

ras4250
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by ras4250 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:07 am

furwut wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:47 pm
Is Apple Pay your preferred method of payment?
For me yes. Have the Apple Watch. But there are still enough places(looking at you Walmart) that don’t take it that I always have my wallet, with credit cards, with me anyway. So no big benefit yet.
The biggest benefit is the security of your card details with the retailer. They only get a one time use number. Once the transaction is complete that number is useless. So you don’t have to worry about trusting Target to keep your info safe (as we know they can’t).

nolesrule
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by nolesrule » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:09 am

3-20Characters wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:42 am
RJC wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:35 am
nolesrule wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:48 am
I don't use the phone-based contactless payments because NFC is a drain on device battery. Fumbling around at the register to turn it on, or alternatively keeping my phone plugged in more often isn't ideal. What's the point of wireless technology if you're tethered to a charging cable all the time?

On the other hand, if I can pay for something with an app that has a scannable loyalty card built into it that associates payment data, I will use that. Otherwise, all my cards these days are chipped anyway.
Is there a noticeable drain? I don't think NFC is on all the time.
I haven’t noticed any battery drain. An Apple Pay transaction takes like 2 seconds. How much battery drain could there be from that compared to watching videos, surfing the web, or making phone calls?
Any technology that uses polling to find nearby connections will be a drain on battery. Wifi, Bluetooth and NFC are no exception. The newer the phone, the more efficient, but it's still a drain.

Texanbybirth
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by Texanbybirth » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:12 am

I use it when I can now, but not a whole lot of retailers around our parts have the scanner for my phone.

It did get me out of a bind once. I went to Whole Foods to buy some stuff late one night, and I realized I had completely forgotten my wallet. However, I'm one of those people who memorizes their credit card info (#, exp, sec code) so I quickly added my CC to my Apple Pay while waiting in line and then paid at the cash register with my phone. It saved me from making that trip worthless. :moneybag
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Skeeter1
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by Skeeter1 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:14 am

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:41 pm
Yes. In fact, my Amex Platinum is on the chopping block when I’m due for the annual fee as Apple Pay and its associated card are far better for my lifestyle and spending habits.

I love it.
That’s interesting since I do have a AE platinum card..hmmmm...thanks

nolesrule
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by nolesrule » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:16 am

ras4250 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:07 am
furwut wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:47 pm
Is Apple Pay your preferred method of payment?
For me yes. Have the Apple Watch. But there are still enough places(looking at you Walmart) that don’t take it that I always have my wallet, with credit cards, with me anyway. So no big benefit yet.
The biggest benefit is the security of your card details with the retailer. They only get a one time use number. Once the transaction is complete that number is useless. So you don’t have to worry about trusting Target to keep your info safe (as we know they can’t).
That's essentially what the chip does too. So in that sense, the contactless payment methods are more useful as a security measure for "card not present" transactions. Unfortunately, there are a lot of drawbacks in that regard, because Apple Pay and the like do not do address validation or data normalization on the entered payment methods, which reduces the effectiveness of a frictionless checkout with fraud protection measures when using the Apple Pay pay sheet as a checkout form replacement (ask me how I know).

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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by TheOscarGuy » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:21 am

furwut wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:37 pm
Apple Pay is very secure, arguably more so than the credit card itself, so you don't need to worry about using it.
One problem I’ve read is that scammers have taken stolen credit card numbers and convinced the issuing bank to authorize them for Apple Pay on an iPhone. They then go out and make a bunch of Apple Pay purchases before the bank catches on. Not Apple’s fault though but this is a way to get around having to dummy up a credit card with a chip.
I get notified by my credit card company everytime I get charged on my cc. Its instantaneous. I imagine every single bank provides this benefit, to me it is beneficial because a. I know who is charging what all the time, and b. I can add that expense at a later time in mint at the end of the day. I just need to look at all the text messages the bank sent for charges on that day.

I figured in the chance that your CC gets stolen while you still don't know (yet), having an instant purchase notification would be an added security feature? Irrespective of whether or not you use apple pay.

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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by 22twain » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:31 am

RJC wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:34 am
After reading this post, I set up Apple Pay on my watch. This morning I tried using it at a gas station but it doesn't appear to take it. Shouldn't gas stations be the first to take NFC payments because of all the card skimming?
If you tried it at the pump, did the pump actually have an RFID reader and was it enabled?

In the few weeks that I've been using Apple Pay, since I upgraded from an iPhone 5S to an XR, I've checked several gas stations in and near my small town. Out of ten stations so far, six do not have an RFID reader at the pump. Two have it but require Apple Pay to go through their app (ExxonMobil and Shell). One (Marathon) has it but when I tried to use it, the pump's screen showed the message "RFID disabled, see attendant inside". Only one works as expected (a Citgo with new pumps).
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by gtg970g » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:37 am

Do credit card processors get all the necessary information to properly assign CC rewards when the consumer uses Apple Wallet? I've always been under the impression that this information was not passed through so there was a chance the consumer would loose out on some CC rewards for categories rewarded at higher levels.

lakpr
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by lakpr » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:41 am

ras4250 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:05 am
lakpr wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:38 pm
@dollar_elbow,

Count me as a newbie on the intricacies of using Apple Pay. What happens if I disable Touch ID or Face ID on the Apple iPhone? I am a bit privacy obsessed that I don’t want to unlock the iPhone with my finger print or face image /store them in the phone. I prefer and use either a passcode or a pass phrase to unlock and use the phone. Does this mean I can’t use Apple Pay?

I am curious and willing to give it a try but would NOT at the condition of having to enable Touch ID or Face ID
It is my understanding that it’s not your actual fingerprint or face stored on the phone. It’s an calculated hash based on the print or face. Plus it is stored separately on the Secure Enclave. No known reports of that being hacked or used for anything harmful.

I would think using a credit card without ApplePay would be more of a “privacy risk” then anything.
It's a bit more than that ... as I understand it, law enforcement can, without your consent, grab your thumb / forefinger and press on the iphone to unlock it and look at its contents, and courts have ruled that is NOT invasion of privacy. If you do keep a passphrase or a passcode to unlock the phone, and you can refuse to reveal it, and law enforcement cannot do so. Attempting to preserve what little privacy I can and exercise what little controls I have ...

jkrm
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by jkrm » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:52 am

I use Apple Pay a lot. Very convenient and secure.

I also use it combined with Apple Messages to send money to my son at college. He can also use it to request money for, say, his electric bill. I get a request message from him, and just have to hit a "Pay" button. Very easy.

rich126
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by rich126 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:53 am

I haven't used it much lately but it can also have some advantages. If a card is compromised, instead of waiting for a physical card to be delivered, a card can be updated electronically much quicker. If you are traveling that can be a nice benefit.

Personally I don't understand why people spend much time worrying about security of cards. If anything goes wrong just call/email them and they will investigate/close the card. And obviously they (banks) don't put it as a high priority since they still allow many place to use the swipe/signature (or often now just swipe) instead of a chip and a pin.

I've had cards canceled by the bank before I even activated them. The card numbers follow certain patterns (part of it IDs the issuing bank and the other numbers have to follow a certain pattern - Google it for more info) and it isn't impossible for people to create a number. Usually they get tripped up because they don't know the zip code and/or 3/4 digit security code.

Ironically the card that got compromised that wasn't even activated was a replacement for a card that was activated and got compromised, at least according to the bank. I think the transaction was canceled by the bank and I never saw it.

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1789
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by 1789 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:54 am

Blueskies123 wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:40 pm
I use apple pay on my phone. I call up apple pay and hold it near the card reader. I found it really does not save that much time but I am told it is a more secure transaction, for example, card skimmers cannot read the information.
I mostly have it in case the physical card cannot be read at the store. This seems to happen to me once or twice a year.
Same here. It is very efficient way to pay for things.
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dollar_elbow
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by dollar_elbow » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:18 pm

lakpr wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:38 pm
@dollar_elbow,

Count me as a newbie on the intricacies of using Apple Pay. What happens if I disable Touch ID or Face ID on the Apple iPhone? I am a bit privacy obsessed that I don’t want to unlock the iPhone with my finger print or face image /store them in the phone. I prefer and use either a passcode or a pass phrase to unlock and use the phone. Does this mean I can’t use Apple Pay?

I am curious and willing to give it a try but would NOT at the condition of having to enable Touch ID or Face ID
Apple Pay is at its most secure when you use touch id or face id (and faster than entering a passcode), but you can try to use it without biometrics.

I'm not sure why you are overly concerned about the privacy of touch id and the wallet app specifically; your fingerprint and card data are encrypted and stored only on the phone in a special secure element and are not accessible except to highly privileged parts of iOS and certain Apple developed apps like the wallet that need the data. Regular apps from the App store cannot use this data. I would be more concerned about entering a pass code in public, since someone could observe that quite easily and using a credit card itself means accepting some loss of privacy as the card company can mine information about your spending habits.

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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by lakpr » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:23 pm

dollar_elbow wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:18 pm
I'm not sure why you are overly concerned about the privacy of touch id and the wallet app specifically;
I had answered it up-thread ...

Glockenspiel
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by Glockenspiel » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:23 pm

Apple Pay is different than the Apple Credit Card. Apple Pay simply connects your phone to one of your existing credit cards. The Apple Credit card is basically a virtual credit card with its own account.

I have Apple Pay and use it with FaceID and it works amazing.

rage_phish
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by rage_phish » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:27 pm

I use Apple Pay all the time. No Apple credit card though

Apple Pay is extremely secure

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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by Gray » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:39 pm

I applied for an Apple Card and they gave me a 40K credit line and 12.9% APR. I loaded in my USAA debit card that I normally use for small purchases, my Double Cash, and Chase Sapphire. I’ve been using the Apple Card and then paying it off as charges post. I like the way Apple encourages micro payments. So far I’ve got a humongous $19.79 in Apple Cash from using the card.

I don’t carry the silly Apple Card.

The true value is not handing over a credit card. I’ve also used ApplePay for web payments. It would be nice if Amazon would accept it, but that’s not going to happen anytime soon in my opinion since Amazon markets their own card. That’s why I use my DoubleCash for most things and Sapphire for travel.

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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by Hockey10 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:48 pm

gtg970g wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:37 am
Do credit card processors get all the necessary information to properly assign CC rewards when the consumer uses Apple Wallet? I've always been under the impression that this information was not passed through so there was a chance the consumer would loose out on some CC rewards for categories rewarded at higher levels.
I use Apple Pay with 2 different Chase cards and I always get the correct amount of points added to my Chase account.

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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:50 pm

Gray wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:39 pm
I applied for an Apple Card and they gave me a 40K credit line and 12.9% APR. I loaded in my USAA debit card that I normally use for small purchases, my Double Cash, and Chase Sapphire. I’ve been using the Apple Card and then paying it off as charges post. I like the way Apple encourages micro payments. So far I’ve got a humongous $19.79 in Apple Cash from using the card.

I don’t carry the silly Apple Card.

The true value is not handing over a credit card. I’ve also used ApplePay for web payments. It would be nice if Amazon would accept it, but that’s not going to happen anytime soon in my opinion since Amazon markets their own card. That’s why I use my DoubleCash for most things and Sapphire for travel.
Amazon absolutely accepts Apple Pay. I did it this week.
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:53 pm

Skeeter1 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:14 am
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:41 pm
Yes. In fact, my Amex Platinum is on the chopping block when I’m due for the annual fee as Apple Pay and its associated card are far better for my lifestyle and spending habits.

I love it.
That’s interesting since I do have a AE platinum card..hmmmm...thanks
I figure by switching exclusively to the Apple Card (no fee), its like a $725 reward by eliminating both me and my wife's Amex Platinum.
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by Hockey10 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:54 pm

22twain wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:31 am
RJC wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:34 am
After reading this post, I set up Apple Pay on my watch. This morning I tried using it at a gas station but it doesn't appear to take it. Shouldn't gas stations be the first to take NFC payments because of all the card skimming?
If you tried it at the pump, did the pump actually have an RFID reader and was it enabled?

In the few weeks that I've been using Apple Pay, since I upgraded from an iPhone 5S to an XR, I've checked several gas stations in and near my small town. Out of ten stations so far, six do not have an RFID reader at the pump. Two have it but require Apple Pay to go through their app (ExxonMobil and Shell). One (Marathon) has it but when I tried to use it, the pump's screen showed the message "RFID disabled, see attendant inside". Only one works as expected (a Citgo with new pumps).
I now have started to only use gas stations where Apple Pay is accepted in my area.

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dollar_elbow
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by dollar_elbow » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:57 pm

lakpr wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:23 pm
dollar_elbow wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:18 pm
I'm not sure why you are overly concerned about the privacy of touch id and the wallet app specifically;
I had answered it up-thread ...
I see that some of the larger credit card companies are rolling out contactless credit cards. These use essentially the same NFC technology as Apple Pay but it is built into the cards. A few of my cards are contactless and they are just as easy to use (tap and go). You could always wait until your card is upgraded and then there is no need to worry about biometrics.
Last edited by dollar_elbow on Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Blueskies123
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by Blueskies123 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:59 pm

dollar_elbow wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:00 pm
Skeeter1 wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:46 pm
minimalistmarc wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:42 pm
I use Apple Pay for everything but don’t have an Apple credit card
Please explain how that works if you don’t mind.
Thanks
Apple Pay is a contact less technology that allows you to make credit/debit card payments using your iPhone instead of getting your card out.

You add your credit card info to the Apple Pay wallet app and it will authenticate with your bank. Once your card is added to the wallet, your iPhone effectively becomes that credit card. You can add pretty much any card you like and you can add multiple cards (9) and select which one you want to use when you pay.

You simply tap your iPhone (or Apple Watch) on the payment terminal and approve the payment with touch id or face id.

I use it whenever possible. It's usually faster that inserting a card into a chip reader and it randomizes the card number on each transaction for protection.

Apple Pay is very secure, arguably more so than the credit card itself, so you don't need to worry about using it.

The Apple Card is a credit card Apple offers which you can apply for and add to Apple Pay if you want to, but it is not necessary for using Apple Pay.
There is one other step I believe. You have to open the Apple pay app or double click on the home button to open the app. Then touch the back of the phone to apple pay sign on the store's reader. If I am wrong let me know. This is how I use it.

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dollar_elbow
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by dollar_elbow » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:03 pm

Blueskies123 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:59 pm
dollar_elbow wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:00 pm
Skeeter1 wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:46 pm
minimalistmarc wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:42 pm
I use Apple Pay for everything but don’t have an Apple credit card
Please explain how that works if you don’t mind.
Thanks
Apple Pay is a contact less technology that allows you to make credit/debit card payments using your iPhone instead of getting your card out.

You add your credit card info to the Apple Pay wallet app and it will authenticate with your bank. Once your card is added to the wallet, your iPhone effectively becomes that credit card. You can add pretty much any card you like and you can add multiple cards (9) and select which one you want to use when you pay.

You simply tap your iPhone (or Apple Watch) on the payment terminal and approve the payment with touch id or face id.

I use it whenever possible. It's usually faster that inserting a card into a chip reader and it randomizes the card number on each transaction for protection.

Apple Pay is very secure, arguably more so than the credit card itself, so you don't need to worry about using it.

The Apple Card is a credit card Apple offers which you can apply for and add to Apple Pay if you want to, but it is not necessary for using Apple Pay.
There is one other step I believe. You have to open the Apple pay app or double click on the home button to open the app. Then touch the back of the phone to apple pay sign on the store's reader. If I am wrong let me know. This is how I use it.

When you put the phone near the terminal, it will automatically open the wallet app and prompt you to accept. You can also manually open the app with the double click, but I have never needed to do that.

DeerRunner
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by DeerRunner » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:05 pm

Am I missing something, most terminals I see don't list Apple Pay. Do they have to? I think I was only able to use it once.

Chuck5781
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by Chuck5781 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:07 pm

I just returned (to the US) from the UK where I used it extensively. Very quick and efficient, I plan to use it whenever possible going forward. I am simply using my existing Visa, issued by Chase, no plans to obtain an Apple branded card.

Saw many places where contactless was enabled - unattended parking garage, vending machines, parking meters. Very handy for those too.

One interesting phenomenon, several restaurants would not allow it for transactions great than 30 pounds. Others did, and most certainly other retailers allowed it. For users of the Apple Card, that restriction would certainly necessitate you to obtain the physical card (which I thought avoiding was the point).

Great product.
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3-20Characters
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by 3-20Characters » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:07 pm

Blueskies123 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:59 pm
dollar_elbow wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:00 pm
Skeeter1 wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:46 pm
minimalistmarc wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:42 pm
I use Apple Pay for everything but don’t have an Apple credit card
Please explain how that works if you don’t mind.
Thanks
Apple Pay is a contact less technology that allows you to make credit/debit card payments using your iPhone instead of getting your card out.

You add your credit card info to the Apple Pay wallet app and it will authenticate with your bank. Once your card is added to the wallet, your iPhone effectively becomes that credit card. You can add pretty much any card you like and you can add multiple cards (9) and select which one you want to use when you pay.

You simply tap your iPhone (or Apple Watch) on the payment terminal and approve the payment with touch id or face id.

I use it whenever possible. It's usually faster that inserting a card into a chip reader and it randomizes the card number on each transaction for protection.

Apple Pay is very secure, arguably more so than the credit card itself, so you don't need to worry about using it.

The Apple Card is a credit card Apple offers which you can apply for and add to Apple Pay if you want to, but it is not necessary for using Apple Pay.
There is one other step I believe. You have to open the Apple pay app or double click on the home button to open the app. Then touch the back of the phone to apple pay sign on the store's reader. If I am wrong let me know. This is how I use it.
Just hold phone near terminal. If you’re using fingerprint ID, put your thumb on the home button. Wait until screen comes on, check mark appear on screen, and you hear a ding. This should all take place without you doing anything else. No need to unlock phone, open app, double tap home button, or anything else.

3-20Characters
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by 3-20Characters » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:16 pm

DeerRunner wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:05 pm
Am I missing something, most terminals I see don't list Apple Pay. Do they have to? I think I was only able to use it once.
They don’t have to but many do. If you see the logo that shows the terminal accepts NFC payments, hold your phone near the terminal and see what happens.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ol.svg.png

Even if the terminal is compatible, the store still has to set it up to accept Apple Pay and in the beginning, many had not done so, but more and more are ready now. Notable exceptions are places like Walmart who don’t accept it because they want you to use their app. Yeah, that ain’t happening.

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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by fposte » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:19 pm

furwut wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:41 pm
lakpr wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:38 pm
@dollar_elbow,

Count me as a newbie on the intricacies of using Apple Pay. What happens if I disable Touch ID or Face ID on the Apple iPhone? I am a bit privacy obsessed that I don’t want to unlock the iPhone with my finger print or face image /store them in the phone. I prefer and use either a passcode or a pass phrase to unlock and use the phone. Does this mean I can’t use Apple Pay?

I am curious and willing to give it a try but would NOT at the condition of having to enable Touch ID or Face ID
Biometric ID is required for Apple Pay.
It might be preferred, but I don't use biometric ID on my phone and I successfully use Apple Pay.

ras4250
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by ras4250 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:34 pm

nolesrule wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:16 am
That's essentially what the chip does too. So in that sense, the contactless payment methods are more useful as a security measure for "card not present" transactions. Unfortunately, there are a lot of drawbacks in that regard, because Apple Pay and the like do not do address validation or data normalization on the entered payment methods, which reduces the effectiveness of a frictionless checkout with fraud protection measures when using the Apple Pay pay sheet as a checkout form replacement (ask me how I know).
So I just went and used my contactless card (i.e., did not insert chip, just tapped) at the Disney Store. Disney printed the actual last 4 digits of my card on my receipt. So Disney has my real credit card number (I believe, yes?). When I use Apple Pay the last 4 numbers that show up are different - they are based on the one-time number created. So are you saying by tapping it - they are also just getting a one time use number? How did my real last 4 show on receipt then?

22twain
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by 22twain » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:05 pm

3-20Characters wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:16 pm
DeerRunner wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:05 pm
Am I missing something, most terminals I see don't list Apple Pay. Do they have to? I think I was only able to use it once.
They don’t have to but many do. If you see the logo that shows the terminal accepts NFC payments, hold your phone near the terminal and see what happens.
To get an idea in advance whether Apple Pay will work, locate the store on Apple's Maps app and tap/click on it. The information panel's "Useful to Know" section should have either the Apple Pay logo or the notation "Accepts Apple Pay".
My investing princiPLEs do not include absolutely preserving princiPAL.

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Bogle7
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by Bogle7 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:17 pm

furwut wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:41 pm
Biometric ID is required for Apple Pay.
Not true.
You can use your passcode (4 or 6 digits).

nolesrule
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by nolesrule » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:19 pm

ras4250 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:34 pm
nolesrule wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:16 am
That's essentially what the chip does too. So in that sense, the contactless payment methods are more useful as a security measure for "card not present" transactions. Unfortunately, there are a lot of drawbacks in that regard, because Apple Pay and the like do not do address validation or data normalization on the entered payment methods, which reduces the effectiveness of a frictionless checkout with fraud protection measures when using the Apple Pay pay sheet as a checkout form replacement (ask me how I know).
So I just went and used my contactless card (i.e., did not insert chip, just tapped) at the Disney Store. Disney printed the actual last 4 digits of my card on my receipt. So Disney has my real credit card number (I believe, yes?). When I use Apple Pay the last 4 numbers that show up are different - they are based on the one-time number created. So are you saying by tapping it - they are also just getting a one time use number? How did my real last 4 show on receipt then?
No. In the data packet from ApplePay to the merchant and processor, it provides the merchant with the last 4 digits of the card number as a data attribute so it can be displayed on receipts and such, but not the rest of the card number.

This is also true of most modern systems that store a credit card token issued by their credit card processor, rather than storing the actual card number. These tokens can only be used for authorizations used by that merchant. So any merchant storing actual credit card numbers rather than a token that only they can use is using a relatively ancient system.

minimalistmarc
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by minimalistmarc » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:34 pm

Chuck5781 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:07 pm
I just returned (to the US) from the UK where I used it extensively. Very quick and efficient, I plan to use it whenever possible going forward. I am simply using my existing Visa, issued by Chase, no plans to obtain an Apple branded card.

Saw many places where contactless was enabled - unattended parking garage, vending machines, parking meters. Very handy for those too.

One interesting phenomenon, several restaurants would not allow it for transactions great than 30 pounds. Others did, and most certainly other retailers allowed it. For users of the Apple Card, that restriction would certainly necessitate you to obtain the physical card (which I thought avoiding was the point).

Great product.
The restaurants in the U.K. were wrong. They are confused because there is a limit of £30 for contactless payments with chip and pin credit cards. There is no limit for Apple Pay.

I use Apple Pay all the time and frequently get told it won’t work because it’s over £30 and I prove them wrong. I must be in the minority because a lot of people still seem to not know this.

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hsmith
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by hsmith » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:55 pm

Glockenspiel wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:23 pm
Apple Pay is different than the Apple Credit Card. Apple Pay simply connects your phone to one of your existing credit cards. The Apple Credit card is basically a virtual credit card with its own account.

I have Apple Pay and use it with FaceID and it works amazing.
I recently got an Apple Card, which can be in virtual form, or you can also order a physical card. Mine is a white card with a chip. It's a MasterCard that is issued by Goldman Sachs.

I have used Apple Pay for a year or so. As others have said, you can enter several credit cards and use them under the Apple Pay system from your phone or Apple Watch. The card(s) used under Apple Pay need not be Apple Cards.

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Bruce
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by Bruce » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:43 pm

You can enter several cards, but Apple seems to make it hard to tell them apart when all are Visa cards.

Is there any way to nickname or label the different cards to help tell them apart in Apple Pay?

Since Apple Pay only shows the same generic Visa card graphic for each of three Visa cards I entered, with only the last four numbers displayed to tell them apart, does not appear not all that useful in helping keep track of using different cards for different purposes.
Bruce | | Winner of the 2017 Bogleheads Contest | | "Simplicity is the master key to financial success."

mnsportsgeek
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by mnsportsgeek » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:52 pm

I use Apple Pay and have an Apple Card. The only thing special about the Apple Card is the privacy features. If that doesn't appeal to you, then you won't find value in one. There are other options.

Apple Pay, however, is amazing. I use it whenever I can. I pay with my Apple Watch and just tap my wrist to the credit card terminal. Done. So much faster and more secure than chip readers.

Workable Goblin
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by Workable Goblin » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:52 pm

Bruce wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:43 pm
You can enter several cards, but Apple seems to make it hard to tell them apart when all are Visa cards.
Seems is the word...my Visa (debit) cards are all differentiated in Apple Pay--the graphics look exactly like the real card, with the obvious difference of not showing the card number, name, etc. I think this is a "your bank" problem, not an Apple problem.

Super Hans
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by Super Hans » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:58 pm

Apple Pay seemed mostly like a silly gimmick to me, but I use it whenever possible to get 4,5% back with US Bank's Altitude Reserve Visa. Along the way, I discovered Apple Pay (or contactless) is much better than swipe or chip cards outside the United States. It's almost universally accepted and avoids the POS terminals asking for a signature.

Rus In Urbe
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by Rus In Urbe » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:39 pm

I ran into a former police officer who dealt with financial fraud and identity theft.
She said that APPLE PAY is the best, most secure way of making financial transactions because the information (credit card, etc) is not shared.
Yes. Use it.
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3-20Characters
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by 3-20Characters » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:44 pm

Bruce wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:43 pm
You can enter several cards, but Apple seems to make it hard to tell them apart when all are Visa cards.

Is there any way to nickname or label the different cards to help tell them apart in Apple Pay?

Since Apple Pay only shows the same generic Visa card graphic for each of three Visa cards I entered, with only the last four numbers displayed to tell them apart, does not appear not all that useful in helping keep track of using different cards for different purposes.
In Apple Pay, my cards look exactly like the physical cards. Very easy to tell which is which.

RJC
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by RJC » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:48 pm

Super Hans wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:58 pm
Apple Pay seemed mostly like a silly gimmick to me, but I use it whenever possible to get 4,5% back with US Bank's Altitude Reserve Visa. Along the way, I discovered Apple Pay (or contactless) is much better than swipe or chip cards outside the United States. It's almost universally accepted and avoids the POS terminals asking for a signature.
5% back on everything?

HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:52 pm

Super Hans wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:58 pm
Apple Pay seemed mostly like a silly gimmick to me, but I use it whenever possible to get 4,5% back with US Bank's Altitude Reserve Visa. Along the way, I discovered Apple Pay (or contactless) is much better than swipe or chip cards outside the United States. It's almost universally accepted and avoids the POS terminals asking for a signature.
I’m strongly considering getting this card and paying for everything I can with Apple Pay.

Just curious how your experience has been. Are there purchases that you didn’t expect would take Apple Pay but actually did? I’m starting to see more online merchants take it (similar to how they take PayPal).

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wander
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by wander » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:53 pm

I use it everywhere I can.

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Bruce
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by Bruce » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:00 pm

Goblin,
Thanks for the lead, I just learned when entering cards in Apple Pay through the wallet which uses a “photoframe” of the card, it then stores them In the Wallet looking just like the credit card.

So my airline card looks like the airline logo, Costco looks like Costco, etc.

Did not do that when I manually keyed in the info in settings.

Appreciate the tip and the response, makes Apple Pay way more useful to me now with multiple cards.
Bruce | | Winner of the 2017 Bogleheads Contest | | "Simplicity is the master key to financial success."

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dollar_elbow
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by dollar_elbow » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:13 pm

Bruce wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:43 pm
You can enter several cards, but Apple seems to make it hard to tell them apart when all are Visa cards.

Is there any way to nickname or label the different cards to help tell them apart in Apple Pay?

Since Apple Pay only shows the same generic Visa card graphic for each of three Visa cards I entered, with only the last four numbers displayed to tell them apart, does not appear not all that useful in helping keep track of using different cards for different purposes.
It seems the card issuer is allowed to supply a high quality card image for display purposes in Apple Pay, so if you have one of the major credit cards, e.g. Chase or Amex, the card should appear in the wallet looking like its physical counterpart. Some banks don’t supply the image so then it will appear like a generic card. My Apple Pay wallet looks like my physical wallet.

anoop
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by anoop » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:15 pm

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:53 pm
Skeeter1 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:14 am
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:41 pm
Yes. In fact, my Amex Platinum is on the chopping block when I’m due for the annual fee as Apple Pay and its associated card are far better for my lifestyle and spending habits.

I love it.
That’s interesting since I do have a AE platinum card..hmmmm...thanks
I figure by switching exclusively to the Apple Card (no fee), its like a $725 reward by eliminating both me and my wife's Amex Platinum.
You lose all the benefits that came with the amex platinum card too.

BionicBillWalsh
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Re: Apple Pay. Does anyone use it?

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:48 pm

anoop wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:15 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:53 pm
Skeeter1 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:14 am
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:41 pm
Yes. In fact, my Amex Platinum is on the chopping block when I’m due for the annual fee as Apple Pay and its associated card are far better for my lifestyle and spending habits.

I love it.
That’s interesting since I do have a AE platinum card..hmmmm...thanks
I figure by switching exclusively to the Apple Card (no fee), its like a $725 reward by eliminating both me and my wife's Amex Platinum.
You lose all the benefits that came with the amex platinum card too.
Havenʻt really used any of them for 2 years. I have a Boglehead disposition towards credit cards. Keep it simple and pay as little as possible for the service.
Saltwater has an amazing ability to wash away many of life’s troubles

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