I no longer plan on retiring early

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JoeRetire
Posts: 5268
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by JoeRetire » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:53 pm

Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
Hello Bogleheads,

I wanna share this « milestone ». I have pursued early retirement for the past 6-7 years and If things go smoothly, I should hit my number in 3-4 years, and retire prior to hitting 50. That was the plan.

According to our IPS, number to retire was 2M, spouse wants to keep working for another 10-20 years. Projected expense of 80K was pretty liberal and we could easily go down to 65K. We are currently at 65% of our goal number

Problem is, for the past year, I have been realizing that the goal to retire early was just a competitive achievement for me. It was not something that I felt inside. I love my job and probably would not give up being an MD, something that I worked my whole life to become. I actually plan on working into my 70s. Talk about a complete 180 degree turnaround. :oops:

So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time

Suddenly, owing to the unexpected future income, our current financial situation looks pretty good 8-)
Sounds like your situation was already pretty good.

I never understood the utility of a "magic number" which would trigger retirement once achieved. Seems to me "when the time is right" is a better trigger.

Plans are for changing. Most just want to be happy, not everyone wants to retire early.
What makes you happy can change over time. Leaving as many options open as possible makes it easier to change course when desired.

Good luck!
It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | And I feel fine.

tibbitts
Posts: 10610
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by tibbitts » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:53 pm

z3r0c00l wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:44 pm
flyingaway wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:21 pm
z3r0c00l wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:23 am
A great counterpoint to the recent FIRE fad. I suspect most people in the FIRE movement a, don't have a plan on what to do after retirement, b, have no idea how much money early retirement requires, and c, can't really predict what they will want in their 50's while in their 20's. For most, it could make sense to shift to a new gear later in their career to a job that is more rewarding or less demanding of your time.
You have to know more about FIRE movement. Most of the FIREes are working on blogs to make money.
Right, i.e. the same self-help nonsense with a new wrapper. I learned enough about FIRE to know it interests me about as much as FYRE. Lots of the stories have people saving $1 million by 30 and then retiring as if that will ever work out mathematically.
It works out because they then work 60hrs/week writing blogs and books and doing presentations describing how they retired early.

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JoeRetire
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by JoeRetire » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:54 pm

MotoTrojan wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:01 pm
simplesimon wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:58 pm
Any plans for all that extra cash?
Sounds like the plan is to work less so there isn’t as much extra cash. I like that plan and wish I could do the same.
What is holding you back?
It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | And I feel fine.

MathIsMyWayr
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Location: CA

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:59 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:53 pm
I never understood the utility of a "magic number" which would trigger retirement once achieved. Seems to me "when the time is right" is a better trigger.

Plans are for changing. Most just want to be happy, not everyone wants to retire early.
What makes you happy can change over time. Leaving as many options open as possible makes it easier to change course when desired.
Reaching a FI should be viewed as a necessary condition for a retirement. FI cannot be the sufficient condition by itself. Confusion on this matter will make you a winner at a battle, but a loser in a war.

MotoTrojan
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by MotoTrojan » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:08 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:54 pm
MotoTrojan wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:01 pm
simplesimon wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:58 pm
Any plans for all that extra cash?
Sounds like the plan is to work less so there isn’t as much extra cash. I like that plan and wish I could do the same.
What is holding you back?
A: A bit too early in my accumulation journey with closer to 1x expenses.

B: Working for a start-up that would not enable hours to be trimmed. Flip-side is that if successful, it would generate FIRE type equity exit and then I could do something like this.

Luckywon
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Luckywon » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:17 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:47 pm
We make plans. God laughs.

Worry about today. Never retire is no more a sure bet than retiring very early.

With our Western Diets, health is not guaranteed.
A good thing to bear in mind. No harm in speculating about exactly how much one would like to be working in their 60's and 70's, but the chances of life unfolding according to a 20 year plan are about as good as my predictions about the stock market. Unfortunately, many of the major unpredicted changes after age 40 are not for the better, in my experience.

flyingaway
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by flyingaway » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:02 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:58 pm
This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (retirement planning). In this case, the plan is to defer.

One very good piece of advice I've heard is that you should never retire from something. You should always retire to something.

Saying this another way - If you don't know what you'll be doing in retirement, hold off. Otherwise, you won't be happy. Conversely, if work is preventing you from doing something (you'd rather be elsewhere), then you should retire.
Yes. Once the number is enough, figuring out something to do in retirement is the most important.

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Streptococcus
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Streptococcus » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:03 pm

TheNightsToCome wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:41 am
Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
Hello Bogleheads,

I wanna share this « milestone ». I have pursued early retirement for the past 6-7 years and If things go smoothly, I should hit my number in 3-4 years, and retire prior to hitting 50. That was the plan.

According to our IPS, number to retire was 2M, spouse wants to keep working for another 10-20 years. Projected expense of 80K was pretty liberal and we could easily go down to 65K. We are currently at 65% of our goal number

Problem is, for the past year, I have been realizing that the goal to retire early was just a competitive achievement for me. It was not something that I felt inside. I love my job and probably would not give up being an MD, something that I worked my whole life to become. I actually plan on working into my 70s. Talk about a complete 180 degree turnaround. :oops:

So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time

Suddenly, owing to the unexpected future income, our current financial situation looks pretty good 8-)
"For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time"

I'm also a physician. How is it that you have such control over your work schedule?

I'm currently employed and I could not enact your plan. If I tried to enact your plan when I was in private practice, my overhead would have remained constant while revenue declined and there would have been no one to take care of my patients when I wasn't working.

An ER doc can reduce hours at will, but you must not be in the ER if you're working 5 days/week now. So how are you able to arrange this?
You’re right. I’m not an ER doc, I’m a primary care doc which, as you well know, requires continuity of care, which, as you also know :happy , is not conducive to extended time off. But life is complicated and successful people fix complexities.
I did not respond to the few comments stating it is easy to semi-retire if you’re a doctor and that their jobs make it impossible to progressively ease your way, over many years into retirement.

Primary care is not constructed to ease your way into retirement. But we are all smart people and we fix problems.
I currently work in a small practice where I actually take 7 weeks a year. Every year, I am gone for a full month. I have done that for many years and my patients know it. I have been able to pull it off. I do not know many other physicians who take off for a month. There seem to be a mentality against it.

Now that I need to slow down more, I realized that I need to change job, find a large practice where I can take the time that I need and get coverage.

It isn’t easy. A lot of jobs are into the testosterone mentality of working working working to death. Or to make more money. But many are into quality of life. I have seen big practices with all versions of part-times. The most creative one that I’ve seen were doctors who would work and be paid per day. They would basically come to the clinic and work 5-6 days a month, on demand. I can see myself doing that in my 60s or 70s.
If you look hard enough, you will always find a solution to your problems.

Herekittykitty
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Location: Flyover Country

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Herekittykitty » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:21 pm

You might be interested in The White Coat Investor website (in addition to this one of course!) The doctor who runs it also posts here under the same name.

Sorry if anyone mentioned already, I took a quick look and didn't see it.
I don't know anything.

kinaokole
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:48 pm

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by kinaokole » Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:30 pm

climber2020 wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:47 am
There’s definitely a benefit to financial independence even without retiring early. I’m not completely there yet but after hitting a certain number, my stress level went down considerably.

Two things that may still make me retire early though: being on call on the weekends and the ever present lawsuit risk. Taking after hours call has always been the most unpleasant part of my job since day one of residency, and I look forward to never again having to talk to a patient on a Saturday.
Don’t know what kind of physician you are, but there are plenty of job arrangements where you don’t have to take call.

And if you love your job but hate the liability, you may be able to do volunteer work with charitable immunity which reduces the risk. Or work overseas, where the culture of litigiousness likely doesn’t exist.

Pomegranate
Posts: 304
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Pomegranate » Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:46 pm

Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
Hello Bogleheads,

I wanna share this « milestone ». I have pursued early retirement for the past 6-7 years and If things go smoothly, I should hit my number in 3-4 years, and retire prior to hitting 50. That was the plan.

According to our IPS, number to retire was 2M, spouse wants to keep working for another 10-20 years. Projected expense of 80K was pretty liberal and we could easily go down to 65K. We are currently at 65% of our goal number

Problem is, for the past year, I have been realizing that the goal to retire early was just a competitive achievement for me. It was not something that I felt inside. I love my job and probably would not give up being an MD, something that I worked my whole life to become. I actually plan on working into my 70s. Talk about a complete 180 degree turnaround. :oops:

So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time

Suddenly, owing to the unexpected future income, our current financial situation looks pretty good 8-)
Don't really understand how this topic can be considered 'actionable'. Do you expect others to force you to retire early :confused

kinaokole
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:48 pm

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by kinaokole » Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:48 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:54 am
Starfish wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:09 pm
bloom2708 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:47 pm
We make plans. God laughs.

Worry about today. Never retire is no more a sure bet than retiring very early.

With our Western Diets, health is not guaranteed.
Diet is the easiest thing to change. Western diets are not some kind of immutable fatality. Besides, France, Italy, Spain, scandinavian countries are all western countries and very good life expectancy. So what is a western diet?
Unfortunately health is not guaranteed with any diet.
Highly processed, salt, fat, added sugar, oils, meat, cheese. These are the staples. 2/3 are overweight. 1/3 obese in the US.
And 100% can change their diet.

kinaokole
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:48 pm

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by kinaokole » Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:59 pm

TheNightsToCome wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:41 am
Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
Hello Bogleheads,

I wanna share this « milestone ». I have pursued early retirement for the past 6-7 years and If things go smoothly, I should hit my number in 3-4 years, and retire prior to hitting 50. That was the plan.

According to our IPS, number to retire was 2M, spouse wants to keep working for another 10-20 years. Projected expense of 80K was pretty liberal and we could easily go down to 65K. We are currently at 65% of our goal number

Problem is, for the past year, I have been realizing that the goal to retire early was just a competitive achievement for me. It was not something that I felt inside. I love my job and probably would not give up being an MD, something that I worked my whole life to become. I actually plan on working into my 70s. Talk about a complete 180 degree turnaround. :oops:

So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time

Suddenly, owing to the unexpected future income, our current financial situation looks pretty good 8-)
"For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time"

I'm also a physician. How is it that you have such control over your work schedule?

I'm currently employed and I could not enact your plan. If I tried to enact your plan when I was in private practice, my overhead would have remained constant while revenue declined and there would have been no one to take care of my patients when I wasn't working.

An ER doc can reduce hours at will, but you must not be in the ER if you're working 5 days/week now. So how are you able to arrange this?
Hospitalist, anesthesiologist, radiologist, pathologist, etc. could all probably work as described. Many other employed physicians too. Even in private practice, you can arrange office/patient sharing with a like minded individual(s).
Last edited by kinaokole on Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fsrph
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Location: Pa.

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by fsrph » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:06 pm

oldcomputerguy wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:20 pm
Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
Problem is, for the past year, I have been realizing that the goal to retire early was just a competitive achievement for me. It was not something that I felt inside. I love my job and probably would not give up being an MD, something that I worked my whole life to become.
If you love what you do, and decide to keep working just because you want to, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It sounds like you're in a good place in your life. Congratulations!
I agree. You're fortunate to have chosen a profession that allows you to systematically reduce your work hours.

Francis
"Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get." | Dale Carnegie

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JoeRetire
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by JoeRetire » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:16 pm

MotoTrojan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:08 pm
JoeRetire wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:54 pm
MotoTrojan wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:01 pm
simplesimon wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:58 pm
Any plans for all that extra cash?
Sounds like the plan is to work less so there isn’t as much extra cash. I like that plan and wish I could do the same.
What is holding you back?
A: A bit too early in my accumulation journey with closer to 1x expenses.

B: Working for a start-up that would not enable hours to be trimmed. Flip-side is that if successful, it would generate FIRE type equity exit and then I could do something like this.
A. Sounds like you could still plan on doing the same, just not right now.

B. You could trim your hours by working elsewhere.
It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | And I feel fine.

MotoTrojan
Posts: 9939
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by MotoTrojan » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:33 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:16 pm
MotoTrojan wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:08 pm
JoeRetire wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:54 pm
MotoTrojan wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:01 pm
simplesimon wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:58 pm
Any plans for all that extra cash?
Sounds like the plan is to work less so there isn’t as much extra cash. I like that plan and wish I could do the same.
What is holding you back?
A: A bit too early in my accumulation journey with closer to 1x expenses.

B: Working for a start-up that would not enable hours to be trimmed. Flip-side is that if successful, it would generate FIRE type equity exit and then I could do something like this.
A. Sounds like you could still plan on doing the same, just not right now.

B. You could trim your hours by working elsewhere.
Fair enough. I'll change my statement to "I like that plan and wish I could do the same right now.".

hmw
Posts: 729
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:44 am

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by hmw » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:59 pm

TheNightsToCome wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:41 am
Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
Hello Bogleheads,

I wanna share this « milestone ». I have pursued early retirement for the past 6-7 years and If things go smoothly, I should hit my number in 3-4 years, and retire prior to hitting 50. That was the plan.

According to our IPS, number to retire was 2M, spouse wants to keep working for another 10-20 years. Projected expense of 80K was pretty liberal and we could easily go down to 65K. We are currently at 65% of our goal number

Problem is, for the past year, I have been realizing that the goal to retire early was just a competitive achievement for me. It was not something that I felt inside. I love my job and probably would not give up being an MD, something that I worked my whole life to become. I actually plan on working into my 70s. Talk about a complete 180 degree turnaround. :oops:

So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time

Suddenly, owing to the unexpected future income, our current financial situation looks pretty good 8-)
"For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time"

I'm also a physician. How is it that you have such control over your work schedule?

I'm currently employed and I could not enact your plan. If I tried to enact your plan when I was in private practice, my overhead would have remained constant while revenue declined and there would have been no one to take care of my patients when I wasn't working.

An ER doc can reduce hours at will, but you must not be in the ER if you're working 5 days/week now. So how are you able to arrange this?
I agree. I am a subspecialty surgeon. I have never seen any part time position in my specialty. The only way I can do part time work is do locum. But sleeping in a hotel room, working in an unfamiliar hospital with generally no ongoing relationship with patients does not sound appealing to me. If I don’t need the money, I don’t think I want to do locums.

Cash
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Cash » Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:47 am

I reached a similar realization recently. FIRE was just another goal toward which to direct my competitive energy. But I have a great job that is interesting, flexible, has great benefits, and comes with a generous pension at age 65. So I will just continue to max out retirement accounts, throw some extra to taxable, and enjoy life and family. That said, aside from the psychological, the only material change to my plan is that I am not going to focus on funneling every dollar into savings to the detriment of enjoying life now.

desiderium
Posts: 919
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by desiderium » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:00 am

Streptococcus wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:03 pm
TheNightsToCome wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:41 am
Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
Hello Bogleheads,

I wanna share this « milestone ». I have pursued early retirement for the past 6-7 years and If things go smoothly, I should hit my number in 3-4 years, and retire prior to hitting 50. That was the plan.

According to our IPS, number to retire was 2M, spouse wants to keep working for another 10-20 years. Projected expense of 80K was pretty liberal and we could easily go down to 65K. We are currently at 65% of our goal number

Problem is, for the past year, I have been realizing that the goal to retire early was just a competitive achievement for me. It was not something that I felt inside. I love my job and probably would not give up being an MD, something that I worked my whole life to become. I actually plan on working into my 70s. Talk about a complete 180 degree turnaround. :oops:

So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time

Suddenly, owing to the unexpected future income, our current financial situation looks pretty good 8-)
"For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time"

I'm also a physician. How is it that you have such control over your work schedule?

I'm currently employed and I could not enact your plan. If I tried to enact your plan when I was in private practice, my overhead would have remained constant while revenue declined and there would have been no one to take care of my patients when I wasn't working.

An ER doc can reduce hours at will, but you must not be in the ER if you're working 5 days/week now. So how are you able to arrange this?
You’re right. I’m not an ER doc, I’m a primary care doc which, as you well know, requires continuity of care, which, as you also know :happy , is not conducive to extended time off. But life is complicated and successful people fix complexities.
I did not respond to the few comments stating it is easy to semi-retire if you’re a doctor and that their jobs make it impossible to progressively ease your way, over many years into retirement.

Primary care is not constructed to ease your way into retirement. But we are all smart people and we fix problems.
I currently work in a small practice where I actually take 7 weeks a year. Every year, I am gone for a full month. I have done that for many years and my patients know it. I have been able to pull it off. I do not know many other physicians who take off for a month. There seem to be a mentality against it.

Now that I need to slow down more, I realized that I need to change job, find a large practice where I can take the time that I need and get coverage.

It isn’t easy. A lot of jobs are into the testosterone mentality of working working working to death. Or to make more money. But many are into quality of life. I have seen big practices with all versions of part-times. The most creative one that I’ve seen were doctors who would work and be paid per day. They would basically come to the clinic and work 5-6 days a month, on demand. I can see myself doing that in my 60s or 70s.
If you look hard enough, you will always find a solution to your problems.
This is a great story
There is a virtuous circle in having the freedom to set your own terms. Medical group culture is oriented toward production above other qualities, something that conditions expectations on all sides. In reality, a good, experienced, reliable doc is not always easy to find. Feeling free to be direct about what you need requires others to be honest about what they will do to get you. Your satisfaction in turn makes you a better colleague and doctor. Good luck!

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goodenyou
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by goodenyou » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:35 am

You just have to be flexible. There is no perfect situation. The practice of medicine is very rigid and finding the right fit for you may be difficult, but not impossible. In my experience (practicing for 25 years), patients are not too fond of shift work primary care. They dislike the discontinuity of care and having to meet a new doctor (or "provider") when they come in to the office. It's just the new reality. Medicine is changing and so are the people working in the profession.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" | Do you know how to make a rain dance work? Dance until it rains.

flyingaway
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by flyingaway » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:55 am

Pomegranate wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:46 pm
Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
Hello Bogleheads,

I wanna share this « milestone ». I have pursued early retirement for the past 6-7 years and If things go smoothly, I should hit my number in 3-4 years, and retire prior to hitting 50. That was the plan.

According to our IPS, number to retire was 2M, spouse wants to keep working for another 10-20 years. Projected expense of 80K was pretty liberal and we could easily go down to 65K. We are currently at 65% of our goal number

Problem is, for the past year, I have been realizing that the goal to retire early was just a competitive achievement for me. It was not something that I felt inside. I love my job and probably would not give up being an MD, something that I worked my whole life to become. I actually plan on working into my 70s. Talk about a complete 180 degree turnaround. :oops:

So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time

Suddenly, owing to the unexpected future income, our current financial situation looks pretty good 8-)
Don't really understand how this topic can be considered 'actionable'. Do you expect others to force you to retire early :confused
Not the OP. We would like to see what is other people's thinking, regarding saving, investing, retiring, planning, etc.

For someone past the basic questions asked on this forum, such as: when to claim social security, can I time the market, can I retire, please look at my portfolio, I think posts like OP's are more interesting.

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Artsdoctor
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Artsdoctor » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:35 pm

Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
Hello Bogleheads,

I wanna share this « milestone ». I have pursued early retirement for the past 6-7 years and If things go smoothly, I should hit my number in 3-4 years, and retire prior to hitting 50. That was the plan.

According to our IPS, number to retire was 2M, spouse wants to keep working for another 10-20 years. Projected expense of 80K was pretty liberal and we could easily go down to 65K. We are currently at 65% of our goal number

Problem is, for the past year, I have been realizing that the goal to retire early was just a competitive achievement for me. It was not something that I felt inside. I love my job and probably would not give up being an MD, something that I worked my whole life to become. I actually plan on working into my 70s. Talk about a complete 180 degree turnaround. :oops:

So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time

Suddenly, owing to the unexpected future income, our current financial situation looks pretty good 8-)
I'm older than you but I'm a practicing physician. Six years ago, I started working part-time (three days a week) because I wanted to see what it was like after a lot more free time to travel and spend time with friends/family. The goal was to "practice" retirement and see what I might enjoy doing in my "next chapter." After a couple of years, I came to the realization that I really like medicine. A lot. I had more time to spend with patients, the financial goals had previously been met, and I found that my patients seemed to give me a lot more than I could possibly give them. I ultimately came to the conclusion that I really enjoy this way too much to give it up, at least for now. I've become a master of the 4-day weekend, but I have never enjoyed going back to work on Monday morning more.

latesaver
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:35 pm

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by latesaver » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:24 pm

flyingaway wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:21 pm
z3r0c00l wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:23 am
A great counterpoint to the recent FIRE fad. I suspect most people in the FIRE movement a, don't have a plan on what to do after retirement, b, have no idea how much money early retirement requires, and c, can't really predict what they will want in their 50's while in their 20's. For most, it could make sense to shift to a new gear later in their career to a job that is more rewarding or less demanding of your time.
You have to know more about FIRE movement. Most of the FIREes are working on blogs to make money.
You are making assumptions based on an availability heuristic.

There are many folks that consider themselves "FIRE" that are not blogging. The problem is that they aren't blogging about it so you don't know about their existence.

hmw
Posts: 729
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:44 am

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by hmw » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:45 pm

Artsdoctor wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:35 pm
Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
Hello Bogleheads,

I wanna share this « milestone ». I have pursued early retirement for the past 6-7 years and If things go smoothly, I should hit my number in 3-4 years, and retire prior to hitting 50. That was the plan.

According to our IPS, number to retire was 2M, spouse wants to keep working for another 10-20 years. Projected expense of 80K was pretty liberal and we could easily go down to 65K. We are currently at 65% of our goal number

Problem is, for the past year, I have been realizing that the goal to retire early was just a competitive achievement for me. It was not something that I felt inside. I love my job and probably would not give up being an MD, something that I worked my whole life to become. I actually plan on working into my 70s. Talk about a complete 180 degree turnaround. :oops:

So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time

Suddenly, owing to the unexpected future income, our current financial situation looks pretty good 8-)
I'm older than you but I'm a practicing physician. Six years ago, I started working part-time (three days a week) because I wanted to see what it was like after a lot more free time to travel and spend time with friends/family. The goal was to "practice" retirement and see what I might enjoy doing in my "next chapter." After a couple of years, I came to the realization that I really like medicine. A lot. I had more time to spend with patients, the financial goals had previously been met, and I found that my patients seemed to give me a lot more than I could possibly give them. I ultimately came to the conclusion that I really enjoy this way too much to give it up, at least for now. I've become a master of the 4-day weekend, but I have never enjoyed going back to work on Monday morning more.
May I ask if you are employed or in a private practice? Specialty?

I am a surgeon and I don’t know any part time surgeons in my specialty or seen any job advertised looking for part-timers. Locum work appears to be the only option if I want to go part time.

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goodenyou
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Location: Skating to Where the Puck is Going to Be..or on the golf course

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by goodenyou » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:16 pm

Artsdoctor wrote:
I ultimately came to the conclusion that I really enjoy this way too much to give it up, at least for now. I've become a master of the 4-day weekend, but I have never enjoyed going back to work on Monday morning more.
Especially when it's Tuesday! :D No more Sunday blues!
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" | Do you know how to make a rain dance work? Dance until it rains.

J295
Posts: 2447
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:40 pm

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by J295 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:23 pm

OP. Thanks for sharing and good luck with your adventures

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goodenyou
Posts: 2247
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Location: Skating to Where the Puck is Going to Be..or on the golf course

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by goodenyou » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:25 pm

hmw wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:45 pm
Artsdoctor wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:35 pm
Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
Hello Bogleheads,

I wanna share this « milestone ». I have pursued early retirement for the past 6-7 years and If things go smoothly, I should hit my number in 3-4 years, and retire prior to hitting 50. That was the plan.

According to our IPS, number to retire was 2M, spouse wants to keep working for another 10-20 years. Projected expense of 80K was pretty liberal and we could easily go down to 65K. We are currently at 65% of our goal number

Problem is, for the past year, I have been realizing that the goal to retire early was just a competitive achievement for me. It was not something that I felt inside. I love my job and probably would not give up being an MD, something that I worked my whole life to become. I actually plan on working into my 70s. Talk about a complete 180 degree turnaround. :oops:

So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time

Suddenly, owing to the unexpected future income, our current financial situation looks pretty good 8-)
I'm older than you but I'm a practicing physician. Six years ago, I started working part-time (three days a week) because I wanted to see what it was like after a lot more free time to travel and spend time with friends/family. The goal was to "practice" retirement and see what I might enjoy doing in my "next chapter." After a couple of years, I came to the realization that I really like medicine. A lot. I had more time to spend with patients, the financial goals had previously been met, and I found that my patients seemed to give me a lot more than I could possibly give them. I ultimately came to the conclusion that I really enjoy this way too much to give it up, at least for now. I've become a master of the 4-day weekend, but I have never enjoyed going back to work on Monday morning more.
May I ask if you are employed or in a private practice? Specialty?

I am a surgeon and I don’t know any part time surgeons in my specialty or seen any job advertised looking for part-timers. Locum work appears to be the only option if I want to go part time.
Can't run a practice with part-time expenses. Need to try to leverage with employed "providers" and/or find employed doctors to carry the overhead. Part time surgeons don't exist unless you can make a fortune in short period of time and suck up the overhead during the off time. Pretty much impossible.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" | Do you know how to make a rain dance work? Dance until it rains.

Topic Author
Streptococcus
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:17 am

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Streptococcus » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:44 pm

hmw wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:45 pm
Artsdoctor wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:35 pm
Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
Hello Bogleheads,

I wanna share this « milestone ». I have pursued early retirement for the past 6-7 years and If things go smoothly, I should hit my number in 3-4 years, and retire prior to hitting 50. That was the plan.

According to our IPS, number to retire was 2M, spouse wants to keep working for another 10-20 years. Projected expense of 80K was pretty liberal and we could easily go down to 65K. We are currently at 65% of our goal number

Problem is, for the past year, I have been realizing that the goal to retire early was just a competitive achievement for me. It was not something that I felt inside. I love my job and probably would not give up being an MD, something that I worked my whole life to become. I actually plan on working into my 70s. Talk about a complete 180 degree turnaround. :oops:

So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time

Suddenly, owing to the unexpected future income, our current financial situation looks pretty good 8-)
I'm older than you but I'm a practicing physician. Six years ago, I started working part-time (three days a week) because I wanted to see what it was like after a lot more free time to travel and spend time with friends/family. The goal was to "practice" retirement and see what I might enjoy doing in my "next chapter." After a couple of years, I came to the realization that I really like medicine. A lot. I had more time to spend with patients, the financial goals had previously been met, and I found that my patients seemed to give me a lot more than I could possibly give them. I ultimately came to the conclusion that I really enjoy this way too much to give it up, at least for now. I've become a master of the 4-day weekend, but I have never enjoyed going back to work on Monday morning more.
May I ask if you are employed or in a private practice? Specialty?

I am a surgeon and I don’t know any part time surgeons in my specialty or seen any job advertised looking for part-timers. Locum work appears to be the only option if I want to go part time.
I had never heard of anyone in my specialty who was doing what I’m trying to do. My specialty is built for continuity of care. Not having ever heard does not mean you can’t do it. Now if you tell me that you tried and tried and after looking for jobs and negotiating, you still were not able to pull it off, then and only then may you have a point.

I have always been amazed to see that nothing is ever set in stone when it comes to contract negotiation. I am currently negotiating with many jobs and I am seeing that everything is on the table. Even big academic centers are ready to be flexible if you provide a rational reason to your demand and, very important, give them something in return. That is my current experience.

To finish, a friend of mine, an ortho surgeon who works at my hospital takes 2 months off every year and works from 6am to 12pm. When he’s really busy he’s home at 2pm but that’s unusual. Okay, that’s not technically part-time but by surgeons standard it is a little bit. He has always planned on semi-retiring and a few years back we were discussing over who would do it first. I think I’ll beat him to it but I’m not sure coz I think he’s planning something :happy

flyingaway
Posts: 2714
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:19 am

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by flyingaway » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:57 pm

Streptococcus wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:44 pm
hmw wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:45 pm
Artsdoctor wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:35 pm
Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
Hello Bogleheads,

I wanna share this « milestone ». I have pursued early retirement for the past 6-7 years and If things go smoothly, I should hit my number in 3-4 years, and retire prior to hitting 50. That was the plan.

According to our IPS, number to retire was 2M, spouse wants to keep working for another 10-20 years. Projected expense of 80K was pretty liberal and we could easily go down to 65K. We are currently at 65% of our goal number

Problem is, for the past year, I have been realizing that the goal to retire early was just a competitive achievement for me. It was not something that I felt inside. I love my job and probably would not give up being an MD, something that I worked my whole life to become. I actually plan on working into my 70s. Talk about a complete 180 degree turnaround. :oops:

So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time

Suddenly, owing to the unexpected future income, our current financial situation looks pretty good 8-)
I'm older than you but I'm a practicing physician. Six years ago, I started working part-time (three days a week) because I wanted to see what it was like after a lot more free time to travel and spend time with friends/family. The goal was to "practice" retirement and see what I might enjoy doing in my "next chapter." After a couple of years, I came to the realization that I really like medicine. A lot. I had more time to spend with patients, the financial goals had previously been met, and I found that my patients seemed to give me a lot more than I could possibly give them. I ultimately came to the conclusion that I really enjoy this way too much to give it up, at least for now. I've become a master of the 4-day weekend, but I have never enjoyed going back to work on Monday morning more.
May I ask if you are employed or in a private practice? Specialty?

I am a surgeon and I don’t know any part time surgeons in my specialty or seen any job advertised looking for part-timers. Locum work appears to be the only option if I want to go part time.
I had never heard of anyone in my specialty who was doing what I’m trying to do. My specialty is built for continuity of care. Not having ever heard does not mean you can’t do it. Now if you tell me that you tried and tried and after looking for jobs and negotiating, you still were not able to pull it off, then and only then may you have a point.

I have always been amazed to see that nothing is ever set in stone when it comes to contract negotiation. I am currently negotiating with many jobs and I am seeing that everything is on the table. Even big academic centers are ready to be flexible if you provide a rational reason to your demand and, very important, give them something in return. That is my current experience.

To finish, a friend of mine, an ortho surgeon who works at my hospital takes 2 months off every year and works from 6am to 12pm. When he’s really busy he’s home at 2pm but that’s unusual. Okay, that’s not technically part-time but by surgeons standard it is a little bit. He has always planned on semi-retiring and a few years back we were discussing over who would do it first. I think I’ll beat him to it but I’m not sure coz I think he’s planning something :happy
I agree with you (the OP) that anything is possible, if you do not need the money.

User avatar
jose
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:19 pm

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by jose » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:32 pm

So you changed your mind and don’t plan to retire early anymore because you enjoy your job. Nothing wrong with that!

You will be able to afford that choice when you are totally financially independent. At that point, you will decide to continue working or also will be able to change your mind again. The point is not retiring, but being able to do it if and when you want to. For professionals, the decision to retire is hard to reverse, so it is a tough decision to make.

It is easy to think that you want to work forever when you are in your 40s, but at age 59 things might be different. Your energy goes down, your mind slows down, your patience runs short, you have health issues, more money, less time... and so on. Keep the door open, and good luck.

jose

getthatmarshmallow
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:43 am

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by getthatmarshmallow » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:41 pm

ClevrChico wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:27 am
I think interest in FIRE in the USA is tied to our long hours and poor vacation policies.

When I stopped working weekends and on-call, my interest in FIRE decreased a lot. I'm sure I'm giving up some salary, but work life balance is worth more.
I think you're right. As an academic, the long summers where I get to work on what I want are refreshing. If I had ten days of vacation a year I'd have tried to fire by 30.

thx1138
Posts: 1129
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:14 pm

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by thx1138 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:18 am

I'm fortunate to be in a career and with an employer where I can scale back hours. I stopped full time work about four years ago now and will probably never go back to it. Initially I went to half time because we were going to be in a different location for a year where I wanted to make the most of our time there. Well turned out I wasn't really ready for half time and found I was wasting a fair bit of my time on pointless things. After returning to our permanent home I went to 3/4 time and I've been loving that.

I do really enjoy my job but I really enjoy some other things to. Just being able to take a long breakfast and finish that article without any stress is a much bigger deal than I'd expected. Stress at home is way lower too because I really don't care who does the dishes now since I have plenty of time to do whatever happens to need to be done and still have time to relax with whatever I want to do afterward.

My spouse doesn't have this option in her career which is full time or nothing for the most part. Her stress level is quite a bit higher despite her personality being far more laid back than mine. That extra ten or so hours a week makes a big difference.

A side benefit is that at work now my time is actually better protected than when I was full time. Knowing there are a limited number of my hours to make use of folks tend to keep the annoying busy work away from me which has meant even though I work fewer hours I seem to actually get more hours of work that I enjoy and am overall more productive than when I was at full time.

We have always saved a lot so by the time I started paying a bit more attention to the FIRE concept we were already well positioned. We were very close to our minimum FIRE number right about when I went half time for that year and of course that was part of the reason I felt comfortable trying out half time. I'm really glad I gave it a try. I learned that I probably really wasn't ready to fully RE but I also learned just how well the middle ground of reduced hours works for me.

On our current path we will likely blow way past our FIRE number since I imagine both of us will work part to full time for another decade. I've learned though how useful the FI part is. I'll probably start trending towards half time soon.

To the OP it sounds like you've discovered a similar thing. Best wishes on enjoying the part time life!

arsenalfan
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:26 am

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by arsenalfan » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:34 am

Streptococcus wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:03 pm
TheNightsToCome wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:41 am
Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
Hello Bogleheads,

I wanna share this « milestone ». I have pursued early retirement for the past 6-7 years and If things go smoothly, I should hit my number in 3-4 years, and retire prior to hitting 50. That was the plan.

According to our IPS, number to retire was 2M, spouse wants to keep working for another 10-20 years. Projected expense of 80K was pretty liberal and we could easily go down to 65K. We are currently at 65% of our goal number

Problem is, for the past year, I have been realizing that the goal to retire early was just a competitive achievement for me. It was not something that I felt inside. I love my job and probably would not give up being an MD, something that I worked my whole life to become. I actually plan on working into my 70s. Talk about a complete 180 degree turnaround. :oops:

So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time

Suddenly, owing to the unexpected future income, our current financial situation looks pretty good 8-)
"For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time"

I'm also a physician. How is it that you have such control over your work schedule?

I'm currently employed and I could not enact your plan. If I tried to enact your plan when I was in private practice, my overhead would have remained constant while revenue declined and there would have been no one to take care of my patients when I wasn't working.

An ER doc can reduce hours at will, but you must not be in the ER if you're working 5 days/week now. So how are you able to arrange this?
You’re right. I’m not an ER doc, I’m a primary care doc which, as you well know, requires continuity of care, which, as you also know :happy , is not conducive to extended time off. But life is complicated and successful people fix complexities.
I did not respond to the few comments stating it is easy to semi-retire if you’re a doctor and that their jobs make it impossible to progressively ease your way, over many years into retirement.

Primary care is not constructed to ease your way into retirement. But we are all smart people and we fix problems.
I currently work in a small practice where I actually take 7 weeks a year. Every year, I am gone for a full month. I have done that for many years and my patients know it. I have been able to pull it off. I do not know many other physicians who take off for a month. There seem to be a mentality against it.

Now that I need to slow down more, I realized that I need to change job, find a large practice where I can take the time that I need and get coverage.

It isn’t easy. A lot of jobs are into the testosterone mentality of working working working to death. Or to make more money. But many are into quality of life. I have seen big practices with all versions of part-times. The most creative one that I’ve seen were doctors who would work and be paid per day. They would basically come to the clinic and work 5-6 days a month, on demand. I can see myself doing that in my 60s or 70s.
If you look hard enough, you will always find a solution to your problems.
Totally agree with this. I am an MD in a field that lends itself to shift work. Even so, I have seen practices of ALL different sort as described in the last paragraph. Some practices work like slaves, all to get a max income. Others have much better quality of life - once a partner you can divide an FTE down to 0.5 FTE, so long as you're ok with the pay cut. These tend to be private practices - Kaiser is the only megacorp I know of that lets you go down to 0.8 FTE and no lower.

I found a job with 7 weeks vacation, use or lose it. A friend took a similar job - he is a much different person than when he was with our group, forced to vacation!!

I see a lot of 40-50 something MDs bemoaning their work-life balance, but they are far from FI and/or don't have the risk tolerance to downshift in their accumulation phase. Lots of parents of young kids, wishing they could be home more. I observe that as kids leave the nest, it's easier to work more/take more call - you have all the time in the world to recover as no one else is tugging at your time.

If you want to decelerate in medicine, you basically have to keep quiet about it, as incredulity is often the reaction.

Topic Author
Streptococcus
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:17 am

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Streptococcus » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:42 am

arsenalfan wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:34 am
Streptococcus wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:03 pm
TheNightsToCome wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:41 am
Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
Hello Bogleheads,

I wanna share this « milestone ». I have pursued early retirement for the past 6-7 years and If things go smoothly, I should hit my number in 3-4 years, and retire prior to hitting 50. That was the plan.

According to our IPS, number to retire was 2M, spouse wants to keep working for another 10-20 years. Projected expense of 80K was pretty liberal and we could easily go down to 65K. We are currently at 65% of our goal number

Problem is, for the past year, I have been realizing that the goal to retire early was just a competitive achievement for me. It was not something that I felt inside. I love my job and probably would not give up being an MD, something that I worked my whole life to become. I actually plan on working into my 70s. Talk about a complete 180 degree turnaround. :oops:

So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time

Suddenly, owing to the unexpected future income, our current financial situation looks pretty good 8-)
"For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time"

I'm also a physician. How is it that you have such control over your work schedule?

I'm currently employed and I could not enact your plan. If I tried to enact your plan when I was in private practice, my overhead would have remained constant while revenue declined and there would have been no one to take care of my patients when I wasn't working.

An ER doc can reduce hours at will, but you must not be in the ER if you're working 5 days/week now. So how are you able to arrange this?
You’re right. I’m not an ER doc, I’m a primary care doc which, as you well know, requires continuity of care, which, as you also know :happy , is not conducive to extended time off. But life is complicated and successful people fix complexities.
I did not respond to the few comments stating it is easy to semi-retire if you’re a doctor and that their jobs make it impossible to progressively ease your way, over many years into retirement.

Primary care is not constructed to ease your way into retirement. But we are all smart people and we fix problems.
I currently work in a small practice where I actually take 7 weeks a year. Every year, I am gone for a full month. I have done that for many years and my patients know it. I have been able to pull it off. I do not know many other physicians who take off for a month. There seem to be a mentality against it.

Now that I need to slow down more, I realized that I need to change job, find a large practice where I can take the time that I need and get coverage.

It isn’t easy. A lot of jobs are into the testosterone mentality of working working working to death. Or to make more money. But many are into quality of life. I have seen big practices with all versions of part-times. The most creative one that I’ve seen were doctors who would work and be paid per day. They would basically come to the clinic and work 5-6 days a month, on demand. I can see myself doing that in my 60s or 70s.
If you look hard enough, you will always find a solution to your problems.
Totally agree with this. I am an MD in a field that lends itself to shift work. Even so, I have seen practices of ALL different sort as described in the last paragraph. Some practices work like slaves, all to get a max income. Others have much better quality of life - once a partner you can divide an FTE down to 0.5 FTE, so long as you're ok with the pay cut. These tend to be private practices - Kaiser is the only megacorp I know of that lets you go down to 0.8 FTE and no lower.

I found a job with 7 weeks vacation, use or lose it. A friend took a similar job - he is a much different person than when he was with our group, forced to vacation!!

I see a lot of 40-50 something MDs bemoaning their work-life balance, but they are far from FI and/or don't have the risk tolerance to downshift in their accumulation phase. Lots of parents of young kids, wishing they could be home more. I observe that as kids leave the nest, it's easier to work more/take more call - you have all the time in the world to recover as no one else is tugging at your time.

If you want to decelerate in medicine, you basically have to keep quiet about it, as incredulity is often the reaction.
Totally agree!

Topic Author
Streptococcus
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:17 am

Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Streptococcus » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:45 am

jose wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:32 pm
So you changed your mind and don’t plan to retire early anymore because you enjoy your job. Nothing wrong with that!

You will be able to afford that choice when you are totally financially independent. At that point, you will decide to continue working or also will be able to change your mind again. The point is not retiring, but being able to do it if and when you want to. For professionals, the decision to retire is hard to reverse, so it is a tough decision to make.

It is easy to think that you want to work forever when you are in your 40s, but at age 59 things might be different. Your energy goes down, your mind slows down, your patience runs short, you have health issues, more money, less time... and so on. Keep the door open, and good luck.

jose
Agree Jose! Flexibility is key

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Meg77
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Meg77 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:29 pm

I've been thinking about this a lot lately as I learn more about happiness research and how beneficial a sense of purpose, social interaction, growth/learning and routine are for humans. Sure you can get those things outside of work, but it's hard to recreate all that in retirement - especially without close family nearby.

I used to want to retire by 42 (I figure two solid decades in one career is a good milestone to shoot for), and at 36 I'm on track to be able to afford to do so. Extreme early retirement often means quitting right as earnings peak and you gain more autonomy and control at work though. I am beginning to appreciate more and more things about my job as I develop competency and take on more responsibility - and as I watch colleagues and parents and neighbors begin to retire. It's not just the work either: I like my nice office, my relatively pleasant commute, the professional clothes I wear, my hours, and the intelligent colleagues and interesting clients I interact with.

Sure it gets stressful sometimes, and a new (bad) boss or merger could mess it all up overnight. So I still want the OPTION to be able to retire early or take a big pay cut to start a new career one day. But I've also been consciously increasing my spending rather than my savings rate as my income ticks up. Retiring a couple of years sooner is no longer sufficient motivation to delay gratification or buy a lesser version of something I can otherwise afford (better airline seat or hotel room on vacations, for example).
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin

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Brianmcg321
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Brianmcg321 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:40 pm

Meg77 wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:29 pm
I've been thinking about this a lot lately as I learn more about happiness research and how beneficial a sense of purpose, social interaction, growth/learning and routine are for humans. Sure you can get those things outside of work, but it's hard to recreate all that in retirement - especially without close family nearby.

I used to want to retire by 42 (I figure two solid decades in one career is a good milestone to shoot for), and at 36 I'm on track to be able to afford to do so. Extreme early retirement often means quitting right as earnings peak and you gain more autonomy and control at work though. I am beginning to appreciate more and more things about my job as I develop competency and take on more responsibility - and as I watch colleagues and parents and neighbors begin to retire. It's not just the work either: I like my nice office, my relatively pleasant commute, the professional clothes I wear, my hours, and the intelligent colleagues and interesting clients I interact with.

Sure it gets stressful sometimes, and a new (bad) boss or merger could mess it all up overnight. So I still want the OPTION to be able to retire early or take a big pay cut to start a new career one day. But I've also been consciously increasing my spending rather than my savings rate as my income ticks up. Retiring a couple of years sooner is no longer sufficient motivation to delay gratification or buy a lesser version of something I can otherwise afford (better airline seat or hotel room on vacations, for example).

This is great insight. Being able to have the option to leave on your terms makes all the difference.
Rules to investing: | 1. Don't lose money. | 2. Don't forget rule number 1.

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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Starfish » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:03 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:54 am
Starfish wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:09 pm
bloom2708 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:47 pm
We make plans. God laughs.

Worry about today. Never retire is no more a sure bet than retiring very early.

With our Western Diets, health is not guaranteed.
Diet is the easiest thing to change. Western diets are not some kind of immutable fatality. Besides, France, Italy, Spain, scandinavian countries are all western countries and very good life expectancy. So what is a western diet?
Unfortunately health is not guaranteed with any diet.
Highly processed, salt, fat, added sugar, oils, meat, cheese. These are the staples. 2/3 are overweight. 1/3 obese in the US.
You meant a Midwestern diet then :D
Again, once you know is bad for you, you can change it. In my opinion it is mostly the quantity and less the quality. Pasta and French sauces are far from being low in calories (not as bad as the American versions though), but still they have much less obesity.

staustin
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by staustin » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:13 pm

Brianmcg321 wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:40 pm
Meg77 wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:29 pm
I've been thinking about this a lot lately as I learn more about happiness research and how beneficial a sense of purpose, social interaction, growth/learning and routine are for humans. Sure you can get those things outside of work, but it's hard to recreate all that in retirement - especially without close family nearby.

I used to want to retire by 42 (I figure two solid decades in one career is a good milestone to shoot for), and at 36 I'm on track to be able to afford to do so. Extreme early retirement often means quitting right as earnings peak and you gain more autonomy and control at work though. I am beginning to appreciate more and more things about my job as I develop competency and take on more responsibility - and as I watch colleagues and parents and neighbors begin to retire. It's not just the work either: I like my nice office, my relatively pleasant commute, the professional clothes I wear, my hours, and the intelligent colleagues and interesting clients I interact with.

Sure it gets stressful sometimes, and a new (bad) boss or merger could mess it all up overnight. So I still want the OPTION to be able to retire early or take a big pay cut to start a new career one day. But I've also been consciously increasing my spending rather than my savings rate as my income ticks up. Retiring a couple of years sooner is no longer sufficient motivation to delay gratification or buy a lesser version of something I can otherwise afford (better airline seat or hotel room on vacations, for example).

This is great insight. Being able to have the option to leave on your terms makes all the difference.
I've enjoyed reading the excellent dialogue in this thread. I'm at the other end of the spectrum. I have a very difficult commute, a boss i don't particular care for, a monotonous job i've held for 28 years now, despise wearing a suit, etc. My youngest child graduates from high school next year and we're financially comfortable with no debt, very liquid, etc. HOWEVER, i'm struggling psychologicially with the idea of not being able to save.. a difficult position. I envy those that still find reward in their careers.

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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Brianmcg321 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:45 pm

Starfish wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:03 pm
bloom2708 wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:54 am
Starfish wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:09 pm
bloom2708 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:47 pm
We make plans. God laughs.

Worry about today. Never retire is no more a sure bet than retiring very early.

With our Western Diets, health is not guaranteed.
Diet is the easiest thing to change. Western diets are not some kind of immutable fatality. Besides, France, Italy, Spain, scandinavian countries are all western countries and very good life expectancy. So what is a western diet?
Unfortunately health is not guaranteed with any diet.
Highly processed, salt, fat, added sugar, oils, meat, cheese. These are the staples. 2/3 are overweight. 1/3 obese in the US.
You meant a Midwestern diet then :D
Again, once you know is bad for you, you can change it. In my opinion it is mostly the quantity and less the quality. Pasta and French sauces are far from being low in calories (not as bad as the American versions though), but still they have much less obesity.
Eat food, mostly plants, and not too much. - Michael Polan
Rules to investing: | 1. Don't lose money. | 2. Don't forget rule number 1.

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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by jose » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:30 pm

staustin wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:13 pm
Brianmcg321 wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:40 pm
Meg77 wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:29 pm
I've been thinking about this a lot lately as I learn more about happiness research and how beneficial a sense of purpose, social interaction, growth/learning and routine are for humans. Sure you can get those things outside of work, but it's hard to recreate all that in retirement - especially without close family nearby.

I used to want to retire by 42 (I figure two solid decades in one career is a good milestone to shoot for), and at 36 I'm on track to be able to afford to do so. Extreme early retirement often means quitting right as earnings peak and you gain more autonomy and control at work though. I am beginning to appreciate more and more things about my job as I develop competency and take on more responsibility - and as I watch colleagues and parents and neighbors begin to retire. It's not just the work either: I like my nice office, my relatively pleasant commute, the professional clothes I wear, my hours, and the intelligent colleagues and interesting clients I interact with.

Sure it gets stressful sometimes, and a new (bad) boss or merger could mess it all up overnight. So I still want the OPTION to be able to retire early or take a big pay cut to start a new career one day. But I've also been consciously increasing my spending rather than my savings rate as my income ticks up. Retiring a couple of years sooner is no longer sufficient motivation to delay gratification or buy a lesser version of something I can otherwise afford (better airline seat or hotel room on vacations, for example).

This is great insight. Being able to have the option to leave on your terms makes all the difference.
I've enjoyed reading the excellent dialogue in this thread. I'm at the other end of the spectrum. I have a very difficult commute, a boss i don't particular care for, a monotonous job i've held for 28 years now, despise wearing a suit, etc. My youngest child graduates from high school next year and we're financially comfortable with no debt, very liquid, etc. HOWEVER, i'm struggling psychologicially with the idea of not being able to save.. a difficult position. I envy those that still find reward in their careers.
This illustrates that having the choice is more important than making the actual decision. Having the choice makes your work much less stressful! When work is optional, you lose your fear, you don't get so upset, and you focus on the positive aspects of work, such as social interaction, structure, entertainment. So, the company is going bankrupt? Pass the popcorn! Interesting, but not really scary.

jose

staustin
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by staustin » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:40 pm

Very well said.

ramonsito
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by ramonsito » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:56 pm

I have a similar situation as a professor at a small, private college. I am 4 years away from FRA, but toy with the idea of working until age 70. The reason is that I enjoy my job, which includes nearly four months "off" per year. Of course, much "reflection" and "thinking" continue during off times, but the fact is it is still my time, without deadlines, committee meetings nor class lectures, etc. My original plan was to accumulate a portfolio that would generate our needed income at age 62. Circumstances have allowed that objective to be met, but I will continue working until age 66 or beyond. My wife and I take two vacations each year and we enjoy splurging on our grandchildren (and to a lessor extent, our children too). I do think it is wise to travel and enjoy life while health is strong, since that could change quickly.

A wise person once observed that we make two great discoveries in life: First, we discover what we like to do. Secondly, we discover how we can earn a living. We are truly blessed if those two discoveries are the same thing.

I have been blessed. GLTA

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Streptococcus
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Streptococcus » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:45 pm

Brianmcg321 wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:40 pm
Meg77 wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:29 pm
I've been thinking about this a lot lately as I learn more about happiness research and how beneficial a sense of purpose, social interaction, growth/learning and routine are for humans. Sure you can get those things outside of work, but it's hard to recreate all that in retirement - especially without close family nearby.

I used to want to retire by 42 (I figure two solid decades in one career is a good milestone to shoot for), and at 36 I'm on track to be able to afford to do so. Extreme early retirement often means quitting right as earnings peak and you gain more autonomy and control at work though. I am beginning to appreciate more and more things about my job as I develop competency and take on more responsibility - and as I watch colleagues and parents and neighbors begin to retire. It's not just the work either: I like my nice office, my relatively pleasant commute, the professional clothes I wear, my hours, and the intelligent colleagues and interesting clients I interact with.

Sure it gets stressful sometimes, and a new (bad) boss or merger could mess it all up overnight. So I still want the OPTION to be able to retire early or take a big pay cut to start a new career one day. But I've also been consciously increasing my spending rather than my savings rate as my income ticks up. Retiring a couple of years sooner is no longer sufficient motivation to delay gratification or buy a lesser version of something I can otherwise afford (better airline seat or hotel room on vacations, for example).

This is great insight. Being able to have the option to leave on your terms makes all the difference.
+1
As previously wrote, I'm currently negotiating with a few job offers.

So today I interviewed for the first time in a big practice of about 30 physicians and I was really surprise to hear my future employer tell me:" our philosophy is work-life balance. Full time here is 4 days a week but some doctors work 3 days, some work 2. Clinic time is 8.45 to 4.45pm. We take 7 weeks off but you can take an extra unpaid week. Some do that. If you're into seeing as many patients as you can and making as much money as you can, this may not be the right fit for you because we dont open late at night or in the weekend."
That sounded like music. Never expected to see a practice based on lifestyle.

And as we crunch the numbers, we can still save about 80k a year, which is a little more than half what we have been saving. I would take the right job that allows me to save 50k a year.

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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Cash » Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:58 pm

Meg77 wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:29 pm
But I've also been consciously increasing my spending rather than my savings rate as my income ticks up. Retiring a couple of years sooner is no longer sufficient motivation to delay gratification or buy a lesser version of something I can otherwise afford (better airline seat or hotel room on vacations, for example).
I always enjoy your comments as we are in similar places in life and have similar views. We are also consciously increasing spending, though I do worry about that. After all, one’s financial independence number is driven by one’s expenses. So I am careful to avoid too much lifestyle creep lest we eventually need a much larger portfolio to maintain that lifestyle whenever we do retire.

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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by calmaniac » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:20 pm

Streptococcus,

Congratulations on the update to your life plans! The real value in "FIRE" is the independence and autonomy, not the early retirement. Sounds like you are right on target.

I've see many docs in their early 40s making huge salaries complaining about how burnt out they are and looking to retire ASAP. Maybe if they had made a sustainable career decision years back they wouldn't be so miserable.

Medicine allows for a lot of career flexibility if we look to optimize what matters most to each of us and not just make decisions to maximize the money.

Sign me,

Gram negative spore forming rod
62 yo, 1-3y til retire. AA 70/30: 30% S&P, 16% value, 14% intl, 10% EM, 30% short/int govt bonds. DW & my Fed pensions now ≈60% of expenses. Taking SS @age 70--> pension+SS ≈100% of expenses.

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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by reln » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:44 pm

Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
Hello Bogleheads,

I wanna share this « milestone ». I have pursued early retirement for the past 6-7 years and If things go smoothly, I should hit my number in 3-4 years, and retire prior to hitting 50. That was the plan.

According to our IPS, number to retire was 2M, spouse wants to keep working for another 10-20 years. Projected expense of 80K was pretty liberal and we could easily go down to 65K. We are currently at 65% of our goal number

Problem is, for the past year, I have been realizing that the goal to retire early was just a competitive achievement for me. It was not something that I felt inside. I love my job and probably would not give up being an MD, something that I worked my whole life to become. I actually plan on working into my 70s. Talk about a complete 180 degree turnaround. :oops:

So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time

Suddenly, owing to the unexpected future income, our current financial situation looks pretty good 8-)
I also decided not to retire any time soon.

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jose
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by jose » Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:37 pm

Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time
By the way, I suggest that an IPS does not determine when to retire, as that can be influenced by events beyond one's control.

The IPS should determine the policy for accumulation, how to determine financial independence, and withdrawal strategy after retirement, whenever that happens.

jose

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Meg77
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Meg77 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:58 pm

staustin wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:13 pm
Brianmcg321 wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:40 pm
Meg77 wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:29 pm
I've been thinking about this a lot lately as I learn more about happiness research and how beneficial a sense of purpose, social interaction, growth/learning and routine are for humans. Sure you can get those things outside of work, but it's hard to recreate all that in retirement - especially without close family nearby.

I used to want to retire by 42 (I figure two solid decades in one career is a good milestone to shoot for), and at 36 I'm on track to be able to afford to do so. Extreme early retirement often means quitting right as earnings peak and you gain more autonomy and control at work though. I am beginning to appreciate more and more things about my job as I develop competency and take on more responsibility - and as I watch colleagues and parents and neighbors begin to retire. It's not just the work either: I like my nice office, my relatively pleasant commute, the professional clothes I wear, my hours, and the intelligent colleagues and interesting clients I interact with.

Sure it gets stressful sometimes, and a new (bad) boss or merger could mess it all up overnight. So I still want the OPTION to be able to retire early or take a big pay cut to start a new career one day. But I've also been consciously increasing my spending rather than my savings rate as my income ticks up. Retiring a couple of years sooner is no longer sufficient motivation to delay gratification or buy a lesser version of something I can otherwise afford (better airline seat or hotel room on vacations, for example).

This is great insight. Being able to have the option to leave on your terms makes all the difference.
I've enjoyed reading the excellent dialogue in this thread. I'm at the other end of the spectrum. I have a very difficult commute, a boss i don't particular care for, a monotonous job i've held for 28 years now, despise wearing a suit, etc. My youngest child graduates from high school next year and we're financially comfortable with no debt, very liquid, etc. HOWEVER, i'm struggling psychologicially with the idea of not being able to save.. a difficult position. I envy those that still find reward in their careers.
I know it's easier said than done, but it definitely sounds like a change is in order! Good news is you can afford to explore your options. And there are a LOT of options in between "stay the course with your current mediocre job experience" and "retire and never work again." I understand where you are coming from though. I really like the comfort and control I feel seeing my net worth creep up each month. Psychologically it is hard for many people to let the needle start moving the other way. Taking a big pay cut or giving up earned income altogether is a huge change and challenge.

Point is, you can take incremental steps toward a better lifestyle whether you decide to retire or not. Look for something closer to home, shift to part time, or take a pay cut to go to company with a culture you like better - maybe even move internally just to get a boss you like better. Or start your own side gig and see if it's something you'd want to build into your primary work. Good luck!
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin

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Streptococcus
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Re: I no longer plan on retiring early

Post by Streptococcus » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:53 pm

jose wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:37 pm
Streptococcus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm
So I Adjusted my IPS:
No more early retirement.
For the next 5 years - I will work 4 days a week, take at least 7 weeks off per year. No more long hours
Then the next 5 years - I will work 3 days a week, take 12 weeks off
Then indefinitely, I will only work 6 months a year. It will be consecutively or part-time
By the way, I suggest that an IPS does not determine when to retire, as that can be influenced by events beyond one's control.

The IPS should determine the policy for accumulation, how to determine financial independence, and withdrawal strategy after retirement, whenever that happens.

jose
Mine does. Retirement was the goal, investment was the mean for it. In fact, once the goal changed and I decided to not retire early anymore, the need for aggressive saving decreased, hence the saving amounts were reduced. I cannot separate the 2.

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