Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

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Pacific
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Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by Pacific » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:05 am

My friend just received a letter today from Chase Bank informing him that as of October 15 he will no longer be allowed to use his Chase/United Mileage Plus Credit Card (which he has had for over 15 years). The reason given was that Chase is no longer allowing "non-U.S. current or former officials or their families or associates"! He could not believe it so he called Chase and they told him it was true and that they did not have to tell him their reasoning. He explained to them that he was a U.S. citizen who was temporarily working in a country that used to be in the U.S. Trust Territory. Chase would not budge or explain it. It was his only credit card and he was buying airline tickets next week for a trip to Reno. Anyone else heard about this or what possible reason Chase would have to do this? It makes no sense for either Chase or United to do this.

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Pacific
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by Pacific » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:08 am

Here is the exact language:

“After careful consideration, we have decided we will no longer offer personal and business banking account to current or former non-U.S. officials, their immediate families or close associates”

Again, this is a U.S. citizen and it is not a bank account but a long-time Chase/United Mileage Plus credit card.

808
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by 808 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:26 am

Pacific wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:05 am
...current or former non-U.S. officials, their immediate families or close associates...
Implies to me that Chase believes this person is a non-U.S. government official or similar (perhaps a diplomat) or family or close associate of one.

If this person is considered a diplomat, it may be difficult to enforce the Ts & Cs on him. In other words, if Chase had to go after this person due to default, it may be difficult on Chase's part. Chase is protecting their rear end.

Just a guess...

jminv
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by jminv » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:44 am

Pacific wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:05 am
My friend just received a letter today from Chase Bank informing him that as of October 15 he will no longer be allowed to use his Chase/United Mileage Plus Credit Card (which he has had for over 15 years). The reason given was that Chase is no longer allowing "non-U.S. current or former officials or their families or associates"! He could not believe it so he called Chase and they told him it was true and that they did not have to tell him their reasoning. He explained to them that he was a U.S. citizen who was temporarily working in a country that used to be in the U.S. Trust Territory. Chase would not budge or explain it. It was his only credit card and he was buying airline tickets next week for a trip to Reno. Anyone else heard about this or what possible reason Chase would have to do this? It makes no sense for either Chase or United to do this.
Your friend is a politically exposed person with a non-US family member who has a government position in a foreign country and he himself is not living in the usa, temporary or not. Or he is himself a US citizen who is a foreign official, it's unclear from what you wrote since he could be a dual national working as a foreign official. Chase has had this policy since 2014 as part of it's anti-money laundering policy. It applies to every foreign country for the official, their immediate family, and their close associates. They have a uniform policy since they've determined that making individual judgements is more likely to bring problems and more compliance cost than just closing all of their accounts. Chase also closed all accounts of foreign diplomats in the usa when they first implemented this rule as they exited this business and then went after other PEP account holders. Chase is not the only financial institution screening for and/or blanket closing accounts of PEPs. Your friend needs to apply for new accounts while in the usa and find one that will take a PEP. I would suggest that your friend needs to find out what bank in the usa has accounts for foreign diplomats and go with that one. Since he's is or his relative is a foreign official, suggest asking that country's us embassy who they bank with.

Normally, they look to see if a person is a politically exposed person at account opening (which they wouldn't have done 15 years ago) and periodically. There are commercial vendors of this list, so you friend is either now in one of them or the bank made the connection when he moved to the foreign country. It doesn't matter that it used to be a us trust territory, it's a foreign country now. If he's in a commercially available list, that's unfortunate for him. If he shouldn't be in one of those lists, he should contest it.

Chase is not the only financial institution screening for and/or blanket closing accounts of PEPs. Your friend needs to apply for new accounts while in the usa and find one that will take a PEP.

United has nothing to do with it, they aren't the card issuer.

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whodidntante
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by whodidntante » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:10 am

They didn't need to give a reason at all. Some people have reported that chase ended their entire banking relationship, closing all cards and all accounts. They closed one of my accounts with no explanation and no warning. It dissapeared from online banking and I got a cashier's check and a letter a week later. I didn't ask because I didn't see an upside.

My advice is to move on. Outrage is not justified or productive.

NJdad6
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by NJdad6 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:27 am

jminv wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:44 am
Pacific wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:05 am
My friend just received a letter today from Chase Bank informing him that as of October 15 he will no longer be allowed to use his Chase/United Mileage Plus Credit Card (which he has had for over 15 years). The reason given was that Chase is no longer allowing "non-U.S. current or former officials or their families or associates"! He could not believe it so he called Chase and they told him it was true and that they did not have to tell him their reasoning. He explained to them that he was a U.S. citizen who was temporarily working in a country that used to be in the U.S. Trust Territory. Chase would not budge or explain it. It was his only credit card and he was buying airline tickets next week for a trip to Reno. Anyone else heard about this or what possible reason Chase would have to do this? It makes no sense for either Chase or United to do this.
Your friend is a politically exposed person with a non-US family member who has a government position in a foreign country and he himself is not living in the usa, temporary or not. Or he is himself a US citizen who is a foreign official, it's unclear from what you wrote since he could be a dual national working as a foreign official. Chase has had this policy since 2014 as part of it's anti-money laundering policy. It applies to every foreign country for the official, their immediate family, and their close associates. They have a uniform policy since they've determined that making individual judgements is more likely to bring problems and more compliance cost than just closing all of their accounts. Chase also closed all accounts of foreign diplomats in the usa when they first implemented this rule as they exited this business and then went after other PEP account holders. Chase is not the only financial institution screening for and/or blanket closing accounts of PEPs. Your friend needs to apply for new accounts while in the usa and find one that will take a PEP. I would suggest that your friend needs to find out what bank in the usa has accounts for foreign diplomats and go with that one. Since he's is or his relative is a foreign official, suggest asking that country's us embassy who they bank with.

Normally, they look to see if a person is a politically exposed person at account opening (which they wouldn't have done 15 years ago) and periodically. There are commercial vendors of this list, so you friend is either now in one of them or the bank made the connection when he moved to the foreign country. It doesn't matter that it used to be a us trust territory, it's a foreign country now. If he's in a commercially available list, that's unfortunate for him. If he shouldn't be in one of those lists, he should contest it.

Chase is not the only financial institution screening for and/or blanket closing accounts of PEPs. Your friend needs to apply for new accounts while in the usa and find one that will take a PEP.

United has nothing to do with it, they aren't the card issuer.
Yes! 100% accurate. This is a bank compliance procedure.

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dodecahedron
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by dodecahedron » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:44 am

whodidntante wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:10 am
They didn't need to give a reason at all. Some people have reported that chase ended their entire banking relationship, closing all cards and all accounts. They closed one of my accounts with no explanation and no warning. It dissapeared from online banking and I got a cashier's check and a letter a week later. I didn't ask because I didn't see an upside.

My advice is to move on. Outrage is not justified or productive.
The actionable lesson from this experience is to maintain relationships with multiple financial institutions. E.g., having only one credit card (as the OP´s friend did) can leave a person seriously inconvenienced when stuff like this happens.

My husband and I learned this lesson 40 years ago. We had moved from Massachusetts to Texas. We maintained our old bank accounts (checking and a VISA credit card with a large regional bank in New England) and also opened a new checking account at a financial institution in Texas.

All went went fine for about a year. We responsibly used and maintained all our cards and accounts. About a year after we had moved away from Massachusetts, the Massachusetts bank (then known as BayBank Harvard Trust, now part of BoA) sent us a letter that they were cancelling our credit card. They offered the explanation that it was nothing we had done, that it was due to the then-existing ¨credit crunch¨ (under Carter administration), they needed to cut back the amount of credit extended and they had decided to implement a policy of restricting credit card accounts to people living in their existing service area (greater Boston area.)

This was somewhat annoying, but really not that big a deal precisely because we had other credit cards in place. I still had a credit card I had gotten right out of college from a DC-area bank. My husband still had a credit card he´d gotten in college in California. We had both added one another as ¨authorized users¨ on those accounts. Apparently, *those* banks were not cutting back along regional lines. But we couldn´t be sure the other banks wouldn´t do something similar. We decided to get an American Express card for added insurance.
jminv wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:44 am

Your friend needs to apply for new accounts while in the usa and find one that will take a PEP. I would suggest that your friend needs to find out what bank in the usa has accounts for foreign diplomats and go with that one. Since he's is or his relative is a foreign official, suggest asking that country's us embassy who they bank with.
This sounds like a very good idea!

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whodidntante
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by whodidntante » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:58 am

dodecahedron wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:44 am
The actionable lesson from this experience is to maintain relationships with multiple financial institutions. E.g., having only one credit card (as the OP´s friend did) can leave a person seriously inconvenienced when stuff like this happens.
Absolutely. A single card issuer/single bank can let you down for any number of reasons, or no reason at all.

student
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by student » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:02 am

whodidntante wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:58 am
dodecahedron wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:44 am
The actionable lesson from this experience is to maintain relationships with multiple financial institutions. E.g., having only one credit card (as the OP´s friend did) can leave a person seriously inconvenienced when stuff like this happens.
Absolutely. A single card issuer/single bank can let you down for any number of reasons, or no reason at all.
+1. I also suggest when travel, bring cards covering more than one network (mastercard and visa) in case there is a problem with one network.

fourkids
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by fourkids » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:46 am

The U.S. and many other jurisdictions are enacting more robust KYC (know your client) rules and regulations that make it harder and more costly for banks and other financial institutions to have certain clients (especially foreign). Therefore, it is absolutely understandable why Chase or any big bank would have to drop certain clients who become unprofitable due to regulatory cost.
Don't take it personally. Get a new cc

rich126
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by rich126 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:08 am

student wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:02 am
whodidntante wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:58 am
dodecahedron wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:44 am
The actionable lesson from this experience is to maintain relationships with multiple financial institutions. E.g., having only one credit card (as the OP´s friend did) can leave a person seriously inconvenienced when stuff like this happens.
Absolutely. A single card issuer/single bank can let you down for any number of reasons, or no reason at all.
+1. I also suggest when travel, bring cards covering more than one network (mastercard and visa) in case there is a problem with one network.
I'm always surprised at how many people will travel outside the US and take 1 credit card and 1 ATM. With the ease of getting more cards, and many are without annual fees, it just seems reckless to go without at least 2 ATMs and multiple credit cards. Some countries accept Visa more often, others may accept Mastercard, etc. Usually it isn't a problem but if it is, then you better have cash.

Many years ago I was working out of state on a per diem for many months. One day I stopped at a gas station and my credit card wouldn't work. Fortunately I had another. When I got home (before cell phones were so prevalent) I called the cc company. They had put a hold on the card because I purchased a laptop online and sent it to an address that wasn't on my account. It was easily resolved.

From that point on, I always have multiple cards. Most sit in a box at home. Some I only use when traveling, others I rotate. For some reason people seem to think it is bad to have multiple cards, it isn't.

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Pacific
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by Pacific » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:47 pm

808 wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:26 am
Pacific wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:05 am
...current or former non-U.S. officials, their immediate families or close associates...
Implies to me that Chase believes this person is a non-U.S. government official or similar (perhaps a diplomat) or family or close associate of one.

If this person is considered a diplomat, it may be difficult to enforce the Ts & Cs on him. In other words, if Chase had to go after this person due to default, it may be difficult on Chase's part. Chase is protecting their rear end.

Just a guess...
No. A judge.

RudyS
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by RudyS » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:02 pm

student wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:02 am
whodidntante wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:58 am
dodecahedron wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:44 am
The actionable lesson from this experience is to maintain relationships with multiple financial institutions. E.g., having only one credit card (as the OP´s friend did) can leave a person seriously inconvenienced when stuff like this happens.
Absolutely. A single card issuer/single bank can let you down for any number of reasons, or no reason at all.

+1. I also suggest when travel, bring cards covering more than one network (mastercard and visa) in case there is a problem with one network.
DW and I take this one step further. When we travel, each carries 2 cards. Hers are not the same two as mine. So if my wallet gets stolen, etc., there is no impact if I have those cards cancelled. Also, each has a different ATM card.

HawkeyePierce
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by HawkeyePierce » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:11 pm

Here's a long long thread of shutdown experiences with Chase over at FlyerTalk:

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase-u ... 019-a.html

Most of these are due to abusing points but there's also some discussion of shutdowns over KYC compliance or reputational concerns. The consensus is that Chase shutdowns are usually irreversible. A small number of people have reported success with appealing to the executive office and/or CFPB.

arf30
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by arf30 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:57 pm

Chase is definitely one of the more shutdown happy banks, it's also a good reason in general to do credit cards/checking/savings/investments at different places.

afan
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by afan » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:01 pm

Worth the effort to call and check. Banks have been known to make mistakes in their records.
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Pacific
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by Pacific » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:28 pm

afan wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:01 pm
Worth the effort to call and check. Banks have been known to make mistakes in their records.
He called, told them he was a US citizen, and asked for the reason. They refused to give a reason. He asked to speak with a supervisor. They refused. I already shared all of these comments and he is now scrambling to get another credit card (he has had this one for 20 yrs as a carryover from Continental before the merger) as he is flying to Hong Kong next week and does not not what he can do.

BTW, Chase mailed him the notice of the October 15 dead date on September 10, but it did not arrive until October 2 which is typical for mail delivery delays in the Pacific region.

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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by HawkeyePierce » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:33 pm

afan wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:01 pm
Worth the effort to call and check. Banks have been known to make mistakes in their records.
There's no point in calling Chase over a shutdown.

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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by whodidntante » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:41 pm

Pacific wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:28 pm
afan wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:01 pm
Worth the effort to call and check. Banks have been known to make mistakes in their records.
He called, told them he was a US citizen, and asked for the reason. They refused to give a reason. He asked to speak with a supervisor. They refused. I already shared all of these comments and he is now scrambling to get another credit card (he has had this one for 20 yrs as a carryover from Continental before the merger) as he is flying to Hong Kong next week and does not not what he can do.

BTW, Chase mailed him the notice of the October 15 dead date on September 10, but it did not arrive until October 2 which is typical for mail delivery delays in the Pacific region.
American Express and Bank of America will expedite approved new cards if you ask them to. This means they produce it right away and overnight it. American Express also gives out instant card numbers for some of their cards, upon approval. Your friend can also load a prepaid card with a couple grand or whatever is needed.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by Doom&Gloom » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:14 pm

It's easy to take these things personally. It's best not to. It isn't the end of the world.

student
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by student » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:23 pm

I suggest that he applies for American Express Platinum. Although it has a fee, it comes with good travel benefits. He can ask them to FedEx to him overnight. At worse, he can pay for the extra charge. He can also ask for the number so that he can use it online right away.

IMO
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by IMO » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:29 pm

Pacific wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:28 pm
afan wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:01 pm
Worth the effort to call and check. Banks have been known to make mistakes in their records.
He called, told them he was a US citizen, and asked for the reason. They refused to give a reason. He asked to speak with a supervisor. They refused. I already shared all of these comments and he is now scrambling to get another credit card (he has had this one for 20 yrs as a carryover from Continental before the merger) as he is flying to Hong Kong next week and does not not what he can do.

BTW, Chase mailed him the notice of the October 15 dead date on September 10, but it did not arrive until October 2 which is typical for mail delivery delays in the Pacific region.
1. How good of a friend is he? If one of my good friends got into some odd valid situation and needed to buy a ticket, I would use my credit card and have him send me cash via paypal or other similar service.

2. Is there not other means of paying for things on a trip to Hong Kong? Never been there, but isn't bringing cash an option? Do they take checks? Do traveler's check's still exist? Can this person go to the bank and buy one of the pre-paid debit cards?

No matter why the card was cancelled, it does seem a bit risky for a number of reasons to simply have 1 credit card. Maybe that's the good lesson, but unfortunately won't be of much help for your friend scrambling to get a new card.

inbox788
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by inbox788 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:32 am

Pacific wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:08 am
Here is the exact language:

“After careful consideration, we have decided we will no longer offer personal and business banking account to current or former non-U.S. officials, their immediate families or close associates

Again, this is a U.S. citizen and it is not a bank account but a long-time Chase/United Mileage Plus credit card.
What a notice. If said US citizen was naturalized, it's possible he was a "non-US official" and now is "former". What is an "official" anyways?

https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/n ... t-official

This definition might include postal workers, charities like Doctors Without Borders, and even public universities. Not only that, but even if he isn't or wasn't, maybe someone in his family qualifies. Do they know all your cousins and half-siblings? And what is an "associate" and how close? Are they tracking who's near you when you work out at the gym? If someone was linked up to someone on a watch list because their former college apartment building address was later linked up, would that qualify?

I once got assigned a phone number of a previous deadbeat, and got endless collection calls. I wonder if that "association" had to do with the cancellation of one of my accounts.

OP, your profile was filtered by the new AI and whatever number it generated made the cut. It's possible no one really knows why. Welcome to our brave new world.
The system is so complicated that even the engineers who designed it may struggle to isolate the reason for any single action.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6040 ... art-of-ai/

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:14 pm

Unless there's a contract specifying otherwise lenders are allowed to stop lending to a customer if they want to. Of course they can't do it by discriminating against protected classes. Egalitarian reduction in lending is lawful.
PJW

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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:27 pm

Pacific wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:28 pm
afan wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:01 pm
Worth the effort to call and check. Banks have been known to make mistakes in their records.
He called, told them he was a US citizen, and asked for the reason. They refused to give a reason. He asked to speak with a supervisor. They refused. I already shared all of these comments and he is now scrambling to get another credit card (he has had this one for 20 yrs as a carryover from Continental before the merger) as he is flying to Hong Kong next week and does not not what he can do.

BTW, Chase mailed him the notice of the October 15 dead date on September 10, but it did not arrive until October 2 which is typical for mail delivery delays in the Pacific region.
Banks do not have to provide a reason for termination of banking privileges or closure of accounts. Note, the term "privilege", it's what it is, not a right or requirement that any financial institution must offer credit or banking services to anyone. This is a credit account, it's common for such accounts to be closed or frozen for a variety of reasons including the bank no longer has the appetite to lend, abuse of account including non-payment, bankruptcy, court order, legislative laws prohibiting the extension of credit and banking services to certain foreign countries including its citizens, etc.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

smectym
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by smectym » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:51 pm

Query whether credit unions don't follow the same protocol (i.e. suddenly shutting down the account of a credit card member, giving no reason etc.) or aren't as attuned to this PEP issue due to their different mission and culture? If so, carrying a debit and credit card issued by a credit union as well as one or more issued by banks might be a prudent diversification technique for those potentially exposed to this problem.

flyingaway
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by flyingaway » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:19 pm

I think that I had three credit cards that were cancelled by three banks recently. They are Chase, Capital One, and Barcley. I am glad that they did it, as I have not used these cards for al least two years.
But I have not got an active credit card cancelled.

bgreat
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by bgreat » Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:00 am

rich126 wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:08 am
From that point on, I always have multiple cards. Most sit in a box at home. Some I only use when traveling, others I rotate. For some reason people seem to think it is bad to have multiple cards, it isn't.
There are drawbacks, primarily on the organisational side. Many more statements to verify, harder to notice fraud, higher likelihood of forgetting a payment on one of your money cards.

Autopay does not cover the last case. I've had autopay failures, and I've had card issuers not bother to notify me of such failures - they didn't even bother to explain the failure or correct my credit record, even though they caused such a failure.

rich126
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by rich126 » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:34 pm

bgreat wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:00 am
rich126 wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:08 am
From that point on, I always have multiple cards. Most sit in a box at home. Some I only use when traveling, others I rotate. For some reason people seem to think it is bad to have multiple cards, it isn't.
There are drawbacks, primarily on the organisational side. Many more statements to verify, harder to notice fraud, higher likelihood of forgetting a payment on one of your money cards.

Autopay does not cover the last case. I've had autopay failures, and I've had card issuers not bother to notify me of such failures - they didn't even bother to explain the failure or correct my credit record, even though they caused such a failure.
I don't believe in autopay. I want to control all of my payments at all times. The statement side isn't a problem IMO. Everything can easily be done via a glance at the web site. You can get emails for reminders if you need to. I guess it could be a problem for some but a minor issue as opposed to not having access to a cc when you need one.

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Pacific
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Re: Chase Bank canceling credit cards??

Post by Pacific » Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:46 pm

IMO wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:29 pm
Pacific wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:28 pm
afan wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:01 pm
Worth the effort to call and check. Banks have been known to make mistakes in their records.
He called, told them he was a US citizen, and asked for the reason. They refused to give a reason. He asked to speak with a supervisor. They refused. I already shared all of these comments and he is now scrambling to get another credit card (he has had this one for 20 yrs as a carryover from Continental before the merger) as he is flying to Hong Kong next week and does not not what he can do.

BTW, Chase mailed him the notice of the October 15 dead date on September 10, but it did not arrive until October 2 which is typical for mail delivery delays in the Pacific region.
1. How good of a friend is he? If one of my good friends got into some odd valid situation and needed to buy a ticket, I would use my credit card and have him send me cash via paypal or other similar service.
Doesn't look particularly good from a lawyer practicing before that particular judge. :happy

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