Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

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willthrill81
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by willthrill81 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:24 am

megabad wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:22 am
imsomeguy wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:14 am
it's the team delivering that's failing
Wait. I thought you said you were a whistleblower? As in, you were disclosing something illicit going on? What do you mean by "failing"?

If there is something illicit going on, it seems like you have already made the moral decision to stand up against this so I would meet with the President (after taking precautions obviously). If you are a whistleblowing regarding violation of law you are a protected class anyway.

If you are just complaining about people not doing their jobs and this isn't whisteblowing than I don't understand the whole premise. I guess I would probably just quietly resign and cut all communication. That doesn't seem like a healthy situation for anyone.
Right. If there is nothing illegal going on, then the OP isn't a whistleblower.

As such, if I were the OP, I'd cease all emails with the president and not worry about others' failings unless it threatens me somehow.
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DanMahowny
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by DanMahowny » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:24 am

I say nothing anonymously that I wouldn't say in person. I suggest you do the same.
Funding secured

bampf
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by bampf » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:25 am

KlangFool wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:56 am
OP,

If I am the president, I would fire you immediately. I cannot trust you not to stab me in my back in the future.

KlangFool
This. You have violated lots of rules and standards of behavior. It probably gave you a thrill to be a mole, but, all you have shown is that you are devious and untrustworthy. It would be one thing to do it within the context of your job. It is quite another to do it this way. You should reexamine your behaviors and your motivations.

silverlitegs
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by silverlitegs » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:26 am

I would meet under the below conditions

Find out their agenda for the meeting.

I would explore the option of getting some kind of contract on your employment. Employment lawyer also

setancre
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by setancre » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:29 am

If I am the president of your company, I am probably worried that you have some sort of mental health issue. What you are doing is not typical behavior, so he is probably thinking about the risk to the firm and possibly the safety of other employees. Hopefully nothing you've written is threatening, or could possibly be perceived that way.

I would also be concerned that you might use a similar email account to communicate with competitors, sell trade secrets, talk to media, disparage company executives/projects to clients, etc.

Since you don't seem to be happy with the organization or your role in it, I would stop contacting this person and search for a new job. Definitely recommend saying no in-person meeting.

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imsomeguy
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by imsomeguy » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:29 am

3504PIR wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:21 am
The only question that matters is why you took this path in the first place.
I took this path because I wanted senior leadership to understand what's truly going on and how poorly this project is being run. Nothing illegal/illicit going on with the project, I just wanted to highlight how poorly they are delivering on their objectives. Hundreds of millions is being spent and so far from delivering what was promised.

MtnTraveler
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by MtnTraveler » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:30 am

How big is this company? I have a feeling that the president can/will find out who you are regardless of if you meet with them or not. The tone of the meeting is really going to depend on how you have presented the problems to him/her over the past year, what your corporate structure is like, along with a lot of unknown variables. In the dialog you've had with this individual have they appeared to take an interest in fixing some/all of the problems? Honestly not meeting with them won't look good as he/she will eventually find out who you are and then you just look like a coward for pointing out issues but taking no responsibility by coming forward to help the project/company. I think regardless you need to update your resume because I'm not sure the probability it ends positively for you with this company is something I would bet on. It totally could end up positively and if so I would be prepared to step up and into a role of more responsibility.

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:32 am

KlangFool wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:56 am
OP,

If I am the president, I would fire you immediately. I cannot trust you not to stab me in my back in the future.

KlangFool
Eh, why stop there? I'd clean house, fire all the folks reported by the mole, then off the mole.
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by Quirkz » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:32 am

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:44 am
This whole thing is crazy. Your #1 job as an employee is to make your boss look great to his boss.
I disagree vehemently with this assessment of what work is about. Almost all of us have jobs to do that are not marketing our supervisors. I'm all for cooperation and productivity, but in my entire life I've never once thought about what impression I might be giving my boss's boss about my boss. It's my boss's job to do his job, and my job to do my job.

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by Edward Joseph » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:34 am

greg24 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:05 am
50% chance of promotion
50% chance of firing

are you feeling lucky?
I respectfully disagree. The way I see it...
5% Promotion
45% Status Quo (but wants to put a face to the email)
50% Steps to remove/fire

I really don't see any big upside in meeting.

boogiehead
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by boogiehead » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:34 am

What is your end-goal in reporting this? Based on that you should see if meeting with the president would help you achieve that goal.

On a side note .... believe it or not corporate waste is very prevalent, so I"m not sure the president would be as "shocked" as you think he/she would be. I've seen a company who failed twice on a SAP implementation that basically meant a few million dollars went down the drain.

TN_Boy
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by TN_Boy » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:34 am

imsomeguy wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:14 am
A couple additional comments

- I'm only peripherally involved in this project essentially I'm a stakeholder driving requirements and it's the team delivering that's failing

- My boss is closer to being involved in the project, but even the shapers of the project are a level or 2 above him

- the (new) President hasn't been closely involved in the project but they know it's been a drain on the organization and has prevented the company from doing other things.
1) As a stakeholder, have you been raising your concerns to the team delivering the project? If not, why not? If so, what has been the reaction? Surely there have been project reviews, milestone meetings, etc.

2) For a year now, you've been saying "Project X is a disaster," and presumably why you think it is a disaster. Have your predictions of failures proven correct?

3) Harsh feedback on the senior leaders ... well ..... harsh feedback on how things are going is different from saying "Joe is an idiot." If much of your feedback went "Joe is an idiot," I do not think this will end well for you.

4) In additional to criticisms, have you been articulating solutions (before it became obvious that a given solution might work)?

The details matter on what is happening, and none of us have all the details. From what I've read, I would be concerned that your job is at risk.

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by abuss368 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:35 am

Wow! You may be going out on a limb or he may shake your hand! Risky nonetheless.
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:35 am

imsomeguy wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:29 am
3504PIR wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:21 am
The only question that matters is why you took this path in the first place.
I took this path because I wanted senior leadership to understand what's truly going on and how poorly this project is being run. Nothing illegal/illicit going on with the project, I just wanted to highlight how poorly they are delivering on their objectives. Hundreds of millions is being spent and so far from delivering what was promised.
The reason makes no difference. You are the only one speaking up about it, that makes you a target. Even if they keep you, you will be the fall guy if things go south. There are plenty of companies that perform poorly, they are still here while those who try to do the right thing are usually eliminated. Altruistic behavior rarely is rewarded.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by SteadyOne » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:39 am

Talk to a employment labor relations lawyer first. He may advice on a course of action to cover your back. For example, phrase an email and get a response that can be used in litigation later if you are fired as a result. If you care. People in executive positions often have sociopathic tendencies and it is not clear why he wants to meet in person. He might have had used your information to get that job and wants to reward you. Or he does not want to have rats around and will not even meet you once he know your name.

It looks like you are feeling uneasy about disclosing who you are, so your intuition is telling your something.
“Every de­duc­tion is al­lowed as a mat­ter of leg­isla­tive grace.” US Federal Court

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by KlangFool » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:44 am

imsomeguy wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:29 am
3504PIR wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:21 am
The only question that matters is why you took this path in the first place.
I took this path because I wanted senior leadership to understand what's truly going on and how poorly this project is being run. Nothing illegal/illicit going on with the project, I just wanted to highlight how poorly they are delivering on their objectives. Hundreds of millions is being spent and so far from delivering what was promised.
It is not your job! Why are you so busybody? If the person responsible choose not to do anything, there is no problem.

KlangFool

TN_Boy
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by TN_Boy » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:44 am

imsomeguy wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:29 am
3504PIR wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:21 am
The only question that matters is why you took this path in the first place.
I took this path because I wanted senior leadership to understand what's truly going on and how poorly this project is being run. Nothing illegal/illicit going on with the project, I just wanted to highlight how poorly they are delivering on their objectives. Hundreds of millions is being spent and so far from delivering what was promised.
Hundreds of millions? This implies a massive project. Are you sure that at your level you have the complete picture?

The fact that it is late doesn't imply total incompetence (I grant you that is surely possible). Was it a unique project never done by the company before? In which case, well, sometimes you learn the hard way.

This must be a large fortune 500 company?

vtjon02
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by vtjon02 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:47 am

OP, I think you are strayed pretty far giving anonymous feedback to someone who is not your supervisor. Especially about something that you are not directly involved in. Corporate structures exist for a reason. Yes, whistleblowing is appropriate when something illegal or unethical is going on, but that isn't the case here. I think you should have discussed your concerns with your direct supervisor and then asked for an audience with their supervisor if you felt it was not being addressed properly.

I would suspend all communications immediately and hope that you have been good at covering your tracks. I'd also update my resume immediately and see if there are opportunities elsewhere.

I moved up very quickly at my current employment. When I got to a higher level I had a very different impression of projects and people that I essentially hopped over. I realized that my views before were not as accurate as I thought they were. And I was a very high-performing employee.

I hope this works out for you but honestly I'd be pretty concerned if I was in your position.

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by THY4373 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:47 am

DippityDoo wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:52 am

I agree. Unfortunately. Unless you know the new president to be a person of utmost integrity, I wouldn't meet with him. You have passed along information about a problem. It may be time to step back now and see if the new president takes action to clean up what you've reported. I also think it's very likely that your e-mails may have revealed clues about your identity, so I wouldn't assume you are anonymous at this point.

Best wishes!
It could even be worse than that a lot of Webmail services embed your IP address (if doing this from your home network your external IP address provided by your ISP) in the header information of the email. If OP ever authenticated to his corporate network from the same IP say for VPN access or to access a secure website it would be very easy to correlate the two activities if the President cares to do that.

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:48 am

Listen to us OP - not sure how long you've been in the workforce, but listen to experience. Do not communicate with this person any longer. Stop cold!
Do not meet with this person, not on the phone, not on the plane, not by bumping into them at the park. Line up another job first and get out if you do not like it there or if you think they are on to you. If you meet this person, depending on who they know in industry, they can make life tougher for you. There are no friends at your workplace. HR - works for management. Board of directors - while they supposedly work for shareholders, many times they are too chummy with the management and some will go out of their way to protect them.
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student
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by student » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:52 am

junior wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:30 am
Just going by the few details we have you aren't actually a whistleblower or someone who has gone rogue. You are just someone who has been anonymously going over your bosses head. How important is this job to you? It's hard to see the upside to going to the meeting.
That's how I read it. Unless someone is doing someone illegal or violating regulations, OP is not a whistleblower. For every legitimate whistleblower, there are many disgruntle baseless anonymous email.

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by Hikes_With_Dogs » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:58 am

greg24 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:05 am
50% chance of promotion
50% chance of firing

are you feeling lucky?
Agree. Do you have FU money?

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by simplesimon » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:01 pm

TN_Boy wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:44 am
imsomeguy wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:29 am
3504PIR wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:21 am
The only question that matters is why you took this path in the first place.
I took this path because I wanted senior leadership to understand what's truly going on and how poorly this project is being run. Nothing illegal/illicit going on with the project, I just wanted to highlight how poorly they are delivering on their objectives. Hundreds of millions is being spent and so far from delivering what was promised.
Hundreds of millions? This implies a massive project. Are you sure that at your level you have the complete picture?

The fact that it is late doesn't imply total incompetence (I grant you that is surely possible). Was it a unique project never done by the company before? In which case, well, sometimes you learn the hard way.

This must be a large fortune 500 company?
I'm guessing OP is in the finance department.

sd323232
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by sd323232 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:02 pm

imsomeguy wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:41 am
So about a year ago I started emailing someone very high up in the company. I created a new Gmail email and started letting them know how messed up things are behind the scenes. There is an extremely large $ project going on and it's been a disaster from Day 1 and I was giving this person a behind the scenes look.

For the past year we've had pretty good dialogue back and forth and I've been able to give them some good insight. But it's all been anonymous.

About a month ago this person got promoted to President. I recently sent them an email saying congratulations and looking forward to their leadership. I also let them know the situation hasn't changed and I want to know I can continue to help.

Well the person wrote back - and they want to meet in person. Over the year I've given some very harsh feedback of senior leaders (who now are reporting to this new President) so obviously I'm a bit nervous to say yes. Would you all agree to set up a face to face? Anyway I can protect myself here? Thoughts?
What makes you think you see the whole picture and that project is a disaster? Lets say i work on same project with you and you mention my name to the president painting me as below average employee while im busting my a.. off and doing best job i can everyday. What gives you right to judge people and project status from your position? is it part of your job description?

I am just saying if i had someone like you working with me on same project, who smiles and small talks to everyone being nice guy all around in person, but secretly keeping tabs on everyone and sending this info (that may be distorted from reality) to higher ups, i wouldnt like that.

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by Jags4186 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:04 pm

Quirkz wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:32 am
Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:44 am
This whole thing is crazy. Your #1 job as an employee is to make your boss look great to his boss.
I disagree vehemently with this assessment of what work is about. Almost all of us have jobs to do that are not marketing our supervisors. I'm all for cooperation and productivity, but in my entire life I've never once thought about what impression I might be giving my boss's boss about my boss. It's my boss's job to do his job, and my job to do my job.
You misunderstand my comment.

Most places are set up somewhat like this.

Stake/shareholders —> Big boss —> bosses —> mini bosses —> individual contributors.

No matter where you are in line, your job is do insure you overachieve. If you overachieve your uplink will likely overachieve. And that continues onward to the shareholders in the form of return on capital. You always want to do the best you can so everybody up line looks great. Thats how you either move up internally or externally.

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by MotoTrojan » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:13 pm

THY4373 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:47 am
DippityDoo wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:52 am

I agree. Unfortunately. Unless you know the new president to be a person of utmost integrity, I wouldn't meet with him. You have passed along information about a problem. It may be time to step back now and see if the new president takes action to clean up what you've reported. I also think it's very likely that your e-mails may have revealed clues about your identity, so I wouldn't assume you are anonymous at this point.

Best wishes!
It could even be worse than that a lot of Webmail services embed your IP address (if doing this from your home network your external IP address provided by your ISP) in the header information of the email. If OP ever authenticated to his corporate network from the same IP say for VPN access or to access a secure website it would be very easy to correlate the two activities if the President cares to do that.
Sounds like OP used a VPN and/or other means to provide additional protection. I'd suggest we assume for the sake of this discussion that they'll only be caught by coming forward.

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MortgageOnBlack
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by MortgageOnBlack » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:14 pm

Plot Twist: President is a Boglehead and searches your previous posts for additional clues to help identify you

In all seriousness, I did go over my manager's head (I was 17, still a kid) and the result of the meeting was the exact same as when Dwight Schrute went over Michael Scott's head to Jan. In all fairness, I wasn't trying to take her job, but I had a legitimate complaint on how she was treating her employees. Trust No One. At this point, I would cease all contact and walk a straight line to keep your job while you hunt. Let other co-workers on the project appear slightly more disgruntled than you. Best of luck
Last edited by MortgageOnBlack on Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:29 pm, edited 7 times in total.

MotoTrojan
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by MotoTrojan » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:17 pm

MortgageOnBlack wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:14 pm
Plot Twist: President is a Boglehead and searches your previous posts for additional clues to help identify you
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=290093

Plot twist, they are struggling to find a new job. Should make the answer to this posts question obvious.

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beyou
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by beyou » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:18 pm

Hate to say it, but if the President wants to find out who you are, he will.
If he looks into the project, he will find out who has what views, find it hard to believe you kept your concerns to yourself outside the emails.
If he does NOT look into this, then chances are he only wanted to evaluate firing you.
If he does research, finds out who he suspects is you, he may fire you for NOT cooperating.
Seems like you are in a bad situation either way.

Good luck.

JBeck
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by JBeck » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:18 pm

MortgageOnBlack wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:14 pm
Plot Twist: President is a Boglehead and searches your previous posts for additional clues to help identify you
:oops: :oops: :oops:

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by Northern Flicker » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:33 pm

I think the president wants these emails to stop. It was inappropriate for an exec to communicate about company business with an anonymous, off-site email user, and is highly inappropriate for the president to do so. These emails may have been anonymous for you, but the replies were not anonymous for the president. My guess is you won’t be fired— the past email correspondence is too damaging for the president for him or her to use them in an HR action. But I think you will be asked to stop the behavior.
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JBeck
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by JBeck » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:37 pm

Cut all contact and be less disgruntled about the project than most
Last edited by JBeck on Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by abner kravitz » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:39 pm

Northern Flicker wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:33 pm
I think the president wants these emails to stop. It was inappropriate for an exec to communicate about company business with an anonymous, off-site email user, and is highly inappropriate for the president to do so. These emails may have been anonymous for you, but the replies were not anonymous for the president. My guess is you won’t be fired— the past email correspondence is too damaging for the president for him or her to use them in an HR action. But I think you will be asked to stop the behavior.
Seriously, the last thing I would do as an executive is communicate about company business with somebody who is anonymous. Something is weird here.

BillWalters
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by BillWalters » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 pm

He’s going to fire you. Which is what you deserve.

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by bottlecap » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:46 pm

BillWalters wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 pm
He’s going to fire you. Which is what you deserve.
Unfortunately for you, this is correct. I can't imagine why you did what you did.

I guess there's a small but non-zero chance the new prez wants to reward you. But if you thought that, you wouldn't have needed to post about it here.

Good luck,

JT

HomeStretch
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by HomeStretch » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:46 pm

Frankly the whole anonymous email route for a year seems odd and inappropriate. The time has come to meet with the President at his invite to discuss your complaints face-to-face and to stop sending anonymous emails whether you meet or not.

Get legal advice prior to meeting if necessary if you aren’t sure how to comport yourself in a non-slanderous way in person or if you do not have solid support for anything you have alleged in your emails.

Don’t be surprised if the President has a good idea who is behind the anonymous emails.

After one year of no resolution to your issues, have you considered another job? ETA: NVM, just saw your post asking what are you doing wrong in trying to get hired for other jobs.
Last edited by HomeStretch on Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by Godot » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:49 pm

imsomeguy wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:41 am
So about a year ago I started emailing someone very high up in the company. I created a new Gmail email and started letting them know how messed up things are behind the scenes. There is an extremely large $ project going on and it's been a disaster from Day 1 and I was giving this person a behind the scenes look.

For the past year we've had pretty good dialogue back and forth and I've been able to give them some good insight. But it's all been anonymous.

About a month ago this person got promoted to President. I recently sent them an email saying congratulations and looking forward to their leadership. I also let them know the situation hasn't changed and I want to know I can continue to help.

Well the person wrote back - and they want to meet in person. Over the year I've given some very harsh feedback of senior leaders (who now are reporting to this new President) so obviously I'm a bit nervous to say yes. Would you all agree to set up a face to face? Anyway I can protect myself here? Thoughts?
Depends on your skill set and what you have to offer the company beyond insider information. If you reveal yourself your relationship to the company changes dramatically in ways you will not be able to predict. You would be rolling the dice.
Estragon: I can't go on like this. | Vladimir: That's what you think. | ― Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot

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Steelersfan
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by Steelersfan » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:56 pm

Wait and see if the new president makes any changes based on what you've already sent him. If he does, that means he values your input.

Until then, don't meet. Too much risk, unless you have a better job elsewhere already lined up.

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imsomeguy
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by imsomeguy » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:57 pm

BillWalters wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 pm
He’s going to fire you. Which is what you deserve.
Why do I deserve to get fired? I've told the (now) president for the past year that the company has been wasting tons of $ and trying to just paint a rosey picture. Also have provided guidance and insight into how to right the ship.

I'm senior enough and close enough to the project that I have 100% the clear picture of what's going on. What's been delivered, what's fallen short, timelines, budgets. Everything - or very damn close. And I'm not just going "above my boss' head". My boss and I often talk about how this project is a disaster.

Everyone knows it's a disaster but technically it's my leadership (ie alignment within the organization) that is delivering this project so if I speak up, you just get shutdown and viewed as the naysayer, it's pretty toxic. So that's why I went to someone senior aligned to a different vertical to address and now that person is president

Fallible
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by Fallible » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:58 pm

imsomeguy wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:41 am
...
About a month ago this person got promoted to President. I recently sent them an email saying congratulations and looking forward to their leadership. I also let them know the situation hasn't changed and I want to know I can continue to help.

Well the person wrote back - and they want to meet in person. Over the year I've given some very harsh feedback of senior leaders (who now are reporting to this new President) so obviously I'm a bit nervous to say yes. Would you all agree to set up a face to face? Anyway I can protect myself here? Thoughts?
Stay incognito and don't assume you still are. But if you still want such a meeting, ask yourself why and what you would expect could be accomplished and why it might be worth the risk.

By way of judging the risk, what do you know about the new president? What reasons has this person given for wanting to meet you (or did you suggest a meeting)? Has this person agreed with your views in the past or encouraged you to continue your feedback or acted on any of it? Has the person ever asked to meet with you earlier?

Two possible reasons the person wants to meet with you now, rather than earlier: 1) being president, the person can do something about the problems you see and wants to thank you for your feedback, possibly by promoting you; 2) that "something" could be demoting or firing you.
John Bogle on his often bumpy road to low-cost indexing: "When a door closes, if you look long enough and hard enough, if you're strong enough, you'll find a window that opens."

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cheese_breath
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by cheese_breath » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:02 pm

Due to either cognitive decline or plain stupidity I missed the whole 'anonymous concept in OP's original post. This causes me to change my opinions 180 degrees. Do not meet with the president. He is and was a member of the management team. And like all teams the management team sticks together and have each other's backs. It's not unlikely he was stringing you along hoping you'd reveal something that would give away your identity.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by GoldenFinch » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:12 pm

dziuniek wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:48 am
I'd go to the meeting because that could be fun.

- either get walked out, - oh well since you're obviously not happy there OR ...
- make a friend pretty darn high up

No guts, no glory.

Just refresh your resume and make sure your emergency fund is in fact funded.
When I was in grad school (a very long time ago) I took a seminar class on whistleblowing in the sciences. The take away was that very often the whistleblower was fired. More recently we know of a person who worked for a Mega Corp and spilled the beans on their team. Much to this person’s surprise the whole team was let go, including the whistleblower who was only a few years from retirement benefits and had worked at that employer since graduating college.

When I was young I was pretty idealistic about righting wrongs, but knowing what I know now, I would protect my job or find a new one before I sacrificed myself for a business.

sd323232
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by sd323232 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:16 pm

imsomeguy wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:57 pm
BillWalters wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 pm
He’s going to fire you. Which is what you deserve.
Why do I deserve to get fired? I've told the (now) president for the past year that the company has been wasting tons of $ and trying to just paint a rosey picture. Also have provided guidance and insight into how to right the ship.

I'm senior enough and close enough to the project that I have 100% the clear picture of what's going on. What's been delivered, what's fallen short, timelines, budgets. Everything - or very damn close. And I'm not just going "above my boss' head". My boss and I often talk about how this project is a disaster.

Everyone knows it's a disaster but technically it's my leadership (ie alignment within the organization) that is delivering this project so if I speak up, you just get shutdown and viewed as the naysayer, it's pretty toxic. So that's why I went to someone senior aligned to a different vertical to address and now that person is president
I think of bogleaheads as a serious forum and thats why i like coming here, unlike lets say reddit wild west. But this thread is so surrel. OP, do you even acknowledge how crazy what you did is (if it is actually true)? You are opinion of one person, judging whole project. I feel great sense of entitlement here, like you are the only smart person on the whole project. Believe me, there are smart people there besides you. My best advice, if this is all true, immediately stop all this shenanigans and stick to your job description. And hope they will never find your identity.

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by KlangFool » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:17 pm

imsomeguy wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:57 pm
BillWalters wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:41 pm
He’s going to fire you. Which is what you deserve.
Why do I deserve to get fired? I've told the (now) president for the past year that the company has been wasting tons of $ and trying to just paint a rosey picture. Also have provided guidance and insight into how to right the ship.

I'm senior enough and close enough to the project that I have 100% the clear picture of what's going on. What's been delivered, what's fallen short, timelines, budgets. Everything - or very damn close. And I'm not just going "above my boss' head". My boss and I often talk about how this project is a disaster.

Everyone knows it's a disaster but technically it's my leadership (ie alignment within the organization) that is delivering this project so if I speak up, you just get shutdown and viewed as the naysayer, it's pretty toxic. So that's why I went to someone senior aligned to a different vertical to address and now that person is president
imsomeguy,

In summary, it is not your job! And, it is not your responsibility. You are just a busybody.

KlangFool

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FIREchief
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by FIREchief » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:23 pm

imsomeguy wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:41 am
So about a year ago I started emailing someone very high up in the company. I created a new Gmail email and started letting them know how messed up things are behind the scenes. There is an extremely large $ project going on and it's been a disaster from Day 1 and I was giving this person a behind the scenes look.

For the past year we've had pretty good dialogue back and forth and I've been able to give them some good insight. But it's all been anonymous.
You seem to think that your anonymous emails have only been reviewed by this "higher up." If this is like most Megacorps, or even not-so-Mega-corps, your assumption is likely totally incorrect. I was never close to President at Megacorp, but I did know pretty clearly what to do if I ever received an anonymous email such as this from somebody supposedly within my organization. I would walk (no make that run) directly to my HR rep to obtain guidance. In a situation such as this they would probably want copies of the emails to go and chew on with their HR comrades. They probably advised the higher up to reply in such-and-such manner to keep the dialogue active. In fact, it's likely that every word of every response was reviewed and concurred with by the HR/legal function. It is also likely that this executive kept his supervisor informed at an appropriate level. Just because you don't seem to have a healthy self-preservation instinct, don't assume that the guys higher up don't. You've been set up and now they likely want to strike you down before you disappear because of the now-President's new role. I'll echo the advice of others to drop this whole thing and pretend it never happened. If you haven't carelessly left a trail of cyber bread crumbs, they'll likely shove it to the back burner and deal with whatever the next challenging employee situation is.

Also, many high risk large $ projects are a disaster from Day 1, and if an organization is functional the higher ups are already aware. That doesn't mean that they are bad business in the long term.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by fru-gal » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:25 pm

cheese_breath wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:55 am
MotoTrojan wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:51 am
cheese_breath wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:48 am
The guy is the president now. If he wants a face to face you better do it.
:confused he has no idea who the OP is, why would his new role matter?
Either he wants to continue the discourse since he is now in a position to act on the information, or he wants to fire a malcontent. Either way, you don't turn down an invite from the president.
Sure you do, if you don't want to lose your job.

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by ddurrett896 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:26 pm

I would have another job lined up with an offer before meeting.

There is no benefit to you to expose yourself. Stay anonymous and maybe even tell the President you're keep a close eye on them too.

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greg24
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by greg24 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:30 pm

MortgageOnBlack wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:14 pm
the result of the meeting was the exact same as when Dwight Schrute went over Michael Scott's head to Jan.
You agreed to do your boss's laundry for a year?

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banhbao
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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by banhbao » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:31 pm

Edward Joseph wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:34 am
greg24 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:05 am
50% chance of promotion
50% chance of firing

are you feeling lucky?
I respectfully disagree. The way I see it...
5% Promotion
45% Status Quo (but wants to put a face to the email)
50% Steps to remove/fire

I really don't see any big upside in meeting.
I tend to agree,

Seems like the only reason for a face-to-face meeting is for the President to know who the OP is. What could be the reason for this? Some are suggesting that s/he wants to continue to get "inside" information; in that case what is the point of a face-to-face meeting? It's totally meaningless.

Unless... the purpose is to get the emails to stop. Which implies in the best case scenario, they'll politely ask you to stop all this and get back to work, and in the worst case scenario, show you the door.

Just one final point, I wasn't able to gather whether there was any illegal activity going on, in that case there may be a completely different reason for the meeting.

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Re: Whistleblowing / Going Rogue at Work

Post by cogito » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:34 pm

Agree with everyone else. If he has the slightest interest in cleaning shop, which by your anonymous correspondence it appears he may, then you're almost guaranteed to be a part of the cleaning. It's myopic to think someone in senior leadership who just was promoted to president would have been unaware of issues had it not been for your selfless email contributions. His incentives and priorities are not the same as yours, no matter how many millions are been burned up on this project. Things always seem worse on the ground inside a project, and I promise you aren't the only malcontent. You just lack perspective. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but just the fact you think you are the hero of this narrative (whistleblower/rogue agent) is a little ridiculous. From what I can see you're just disgruntled and sorta burned-out, and you're acting on it in unwise ways. I would suggest either looking for work elsewhere, where you don't feel the need to self-sabotage your career, or turning your passions towards impressing those directly above you, and directly below you.

Whatever you decide, please give us the rundown on how this plays out. I'm going with Dwight/Jan as the most likely scenario, even if the version you're rehearsing in your head looks more like Serpico

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