BofA ShopSafe going away

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indexfundfan
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BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by indexfundfan » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:43 pm

BofA ShopSafe going away

We remain committed to providing the highest level of security when you transact online with your Bank of America® credit or debit card, and we’re always looking for ways to improve your digital banking experience. On September 20, we are discontinuing our online ShopSafe® service. After this date, you will no longer be able to use this service to create new ShopSafe virtual credit card numbers or make purchases online with saved ShopSafe virtual credit card numbers.

Update your credit card numbers if needed by 9/20/19.
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LiveSimple
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by LiveSimple » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:22 pm

Uhmmm I use this .... is there any alternatives with other banks....

bac
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by bac » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:29 pm

LiveSimple wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:22 pm
Uhmmm I use this .... is there any alternatives with other banks....
Citibank offers virtual account numbers, which I've used more often than ShopSafe. I like being able to set a dollar limit, in particular. I use the downloaded app on my desktop or laptop.

I'm guessing BofA's decision to kill ShopSafe could be related to the deprecation of Adobe Flash, on which it relies. I fear Citibank could follow suit.

Chip
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Chip » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:51 pm

...we’re always looking for ways to improve your digital banking experience. On September 20, we are discontinuing our online ShopSafe® service.
You gotta love the way they word these service reductions. I wonder if there was backslapping and high-fiving in the conference room where they thought this up. :D

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dual
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by dual » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:57 pm

I also use ShopSafe frequently although only for high risk situations such as political donations and protection against retroactive charges by landlords for vacation rentals.

An internet search for alternatives turned up https://privacy.com/
Their description:
Privacy is a service that you can use to make an online payment using virtual cards instead of your real information.

You use Privacy cards exactly like how you use your normal credit or debit card, ...

Privacy cards come with all kinds of additional protections to shut down fraudulent transactions before they even happen.

Pause a card between transactions to make sure fraudulent transactions can’t sneak through

Set a spending limit so you control exactly how much and how frequently a merchant can charge you

Close a card and rest easy that even if a fraudster got your card’s information they couldn’t do anything with it
With a third party in the transaction, I do not know how I could dispute a charge. Also how would the credit card provider's fraud protection work?

Still, for the situations I describe above I may use them if Citi discontinues their service.

Makefile
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Makefile » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:05 pm

Discover used to offer a similar service called Secure Online Account Numbers, and also discontinued it.

You may find some interesting reading online about Orbiscom, the company issuers were using to offer this feature (hence the comment above about it relying on Flash). Apparently they were bought out by MasterCard in 2009 and may have become much less interested in offering this service for other cards after that.

Interestingly, the new Apple Card offers something equivalent to virtual card numbers for online shopping. Similar to how offering FICO scores caught on so quickly among credit cards, perhaps they will begin copying Apple too and virtual numbers will get popular over the next few years.

HRPennypacker
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by HRPennypacker » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:14 pm

I figured only the Bogleheads would share my disappointment at hearing that ShopSafe is going away...

Anyone have direct experience with Privacy?

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dual
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by dual » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:15 pm

Makefile wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:05 pm

Interestingly, the new Apple Card offers something equivalent to virtual card numbers for online shopping.
A link to this? I looked on their (worthless) website but could not find anything.

Makefile
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Makefile » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:29 pm

A link to this? I looked on their (worthless) website but could not find anything.
There is a decent description of it on the Apple Card Wikipedia page if it's to be believed.

Looking4Answers
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Looking4Answers » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:51 pm

I was very disappointed to hear ShopSafe is going away, because I use it a lot. Especially for magazine and trial membership charges that I do not want to be charged even though I have cancelled. Shopsafe has saved me numerous times, because I get notices like "we have been unable to charge your credit card". Capital One has Eno, which I have never used because Shopsafe enabled me to set a dollar and time limit. I suppose you can delete a virtual number with Eno immediately after using it. Would love to hear if anyone has experience with this.


https://www.creditkarma.com/credit-card ... edit-card/

tmhudg
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by tmhudg » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:28 pm

Dang! Count me in as another who is disappointed to see Shop Safe going away. I've used it several times when making online purchases at sketchy and/or foreign websites. I will check out some of the alternatives and look forward to hearing about others.

Wakefield1
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Wakefield1 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:35 pm

Looking4Answers wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:51 pm
I was very disappointed to hear ShopSafe is going away, because I use it a lot. Especially for magazine and trial membership charges that I do not want to be charged even though I have cancelled. Shopsafe has saved me numerous times, because I get notices like "we have been unable to charge your credit card". Capital One has Eno, which I have never used because Shopsafe enabled me to set a dollar and time limit. I suppose you can delete a virtual number with Eno immediately after using it. Would love to hear if anyone has experience with this.


https://www.creditkarma.com/credit-card ... edit-card/
I am also disappointed that they are taking Shopsafe away,I almost always used it when buying online. When I don't use it I frequently find fraudulent charges on my card.
I have noticed that recently,when I use it the little popup window goes blank and I have to try several times before the popup window gives me enough time to interact with it so that I can create my onetime use number.
So it did use Flash? Flash gave me much better performance for viewing video (especially music) or movies than the new inbrowser viewers.

I will be looking to stop using a credit card online except in absolute emergencies,I am tired of other parties charging stuff using my cards.

student
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by student » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:45 pm

This is disappointing. ShopSafe is really the best as you can set the credit limit. Citibank and Capital One still have it but I think they are not as versatile. Given the trend, I expect them to going away soon.

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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by whodidntante » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:56 pm

I had stopped using the service because it didn't cover the cases I wanted protection for. I won't miss it.

Now for fraud protection, and for services that insist that I call and listen to their retention specialists beg me to stay, I use virtual gift cards and other gift cards. The WSJ gave up banging it on it after 3 months, and you can easily filter their e-mails.

Gnirk
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Gnirk » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:58 pm

Rats! I used it often during online holiday shopping. :(

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dual
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by dual » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:05 pm

whodidntante wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:56 pm
Now for fraud protection, and for services ... I use virtual gift cards and other gift cards.
Please explain what kind of gift cards. The general purpose VISA and MasterCard gift cards I have seen at drugstores etc have a hefty 5% fee.

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whodidntante
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by whodidntante » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:16 pm

dual wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:05 pm
whodidntante wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:56 pm
Now for fraud protection, and for services ... I use virtual gift cards and other gift cards.
Please explain what kind of gift cards. The general purpose VISA and MasterCard gift cards I have seen at drugstores etc have a hefty 5% fee.
I mean a visa gift card, a mastercard gift card, or a merchant gift card.

When I have gift cards on hand, it's because I bought them at a discount. I mentioned some ways here:
viewtopic.php?t=276677

Office depot and staples regularly sell gift cards at a discount, and there are credit cards that rebate 5% for office store spending. This is "bread and butter" but I mentioned other ways in that thread.

The last way I've found is that Swagbucks allows you to purchase a $25 "virtual" visa gift card each month at 13% off, with no fees. I just got one today and I get one every month. They also have promos on Swagbucks point purchases from time to time. These deeply discounted gift cards are great for transactions with dubious websites. And for subscription services where you don't want to meet the retention department. Give it to dubious.com, get the goods/services, then drain it with an Amazon.com reload, or whatever you like.

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FrugalInvestor
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by FrugalInvestor » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:32 pm

We use BofA Shopsafe numbers extensively. We have a BofA card for which we've chosen to get a 3% rebate for the online purchase category. We normally use Shopsafe numbers to place orders to prevent the card from being compromised. After the Shopsafe feature goes away we'll just have to use the card number and risk the card being compromised which will be an inconvenience (if/when that happens) but not a catastrophe.
IGNORE the noise! | Our life is frittered away by detail... simplify, simplify. - Henry David Thoreau

Katietsu
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Katietsu » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:35 pm

whodidntante wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:56 pm

Now for fraud protection, and for services that insist that I call and listen to their retention specialists beg me to stay, I use virtual gift cards and other gift cards. The WSJ gave up banging it on it after 3 months, and you can easily filter their e-mails.
Are you suggesting that you sign up for something like a subscription with the first three months for $5.99 a month and $15 a month thereafter with a $25 gift card? And you do not cancel after 3 months? You just rely on the company to discontinue the service after being unable to charge the “card”? If you did not cancel, couldn’t they send you to collections if they wanted?

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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by whodidntante » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:13 am

Katietsu wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:35 pm
whodidntante wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:56 pm

Now for fraud protection, and for services that insist that I call and listen to their retention specialists beg me to stay, I use virtual gift cards and other gift cards. The WSJ gave up banging it on it after 3 months, and you can easily filter their e-mails.
Are you suggesting that you sign up for something like a subscription with the first three months for $5.99 a month and $15 a month thereafter with a $25 gift card? And you do not cancel after 3 months? You just rely on the company to discontinue the service after being unable to charge the “card”? If you did not cancel, couldn’t they send you to collections if they wanted?
For prepaid services that are painful to cancel, yes. There are no collections because I paid for everything I agreed to and received.

investor4life
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by investor4life » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:37 am

I've used both Citi Virtual Account Numbers and BofA ShopSafe for years. One key difference: VAN is 1-time use even at the same merchant, whereas SS can be set to be used multiple times at the same merchant. I've found SS to be convenient for recurring monthly charges. It's never failed me whereas VANs have been rejected occasionally due to glitches at Citi.

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CAsage
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by CAsage » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:47 am

Katietsu wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:35 pm
Are you suggesting that you sign up for something like a subscription with the first three months for $5.99 a month and $15 a month thereafter with a $25 gift card? And you do not cancel after 3 months? You just rely on the company to discontinue the service after being unable to charge the “card”? If you did not cancel, couldn’t they send you to collections if they wanted?
That is probably a top reason to use a card like Shopsafe, and a reason to try gift cards instead. I abhor auto-renewals! Such a pain to cancel some things, I tend to never even sign up the first time just to avoid the pain. I like the gift card suggestion.... But I don't think I've ever heard of anyone being on the hook after the period of non-payment .... I would hope they just cancel for you ? Any experience in that?
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Looking4Answers
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Looking4Answers » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:59 am

investor4life wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:37 am
I've used both Citi Virtual Account Numbers and BofA ShopSafe for years. One key difference: VAN is 1-time use even at the same merchant, whereas SS can be set to be used multiple times at the same merchant. I've found SS to be convenient for recurring monthly charges. It's never failed me whereas VANs have been rejected occasionally due to glitches at Citi.
I have had ShopSafe denied in the past - usually on trial offers or auto-renewals. I suspected they knew somehow that it was something they were not going to be able to charge later. Have you seen a pattern like that when using Citi, or has it been random?

open_circuit
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by open_circuit » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:03 am

LiveSimple wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:22 pm
Uhmmm I use this .... is there any alternatives with other banks....
Capital one offers virtual card numbers with their "eno" tool.

investor4life
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by investor4life » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:19 am

Looking4Answers wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:59 am
investor4life wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:37 am
I've used both Citi Virtual Account Numbers and BofA ShopSafe for years. One key difference: VAN is 1-time use even at the same merchant, whereas SS can be set to be used multiple times at the same merchant. I've found SS to be convenient for recurring monthly charges. It's never failed me whereas VANs have been rejected occasionally due to glitches at Citi.
I have had ShopSafe denied in the past - usually on trial offers or auto-renewals. I suspected they knew somehow that it was something they were not going to be able to charge later. Have you seen a pattern like that when using Citi, or has it been random?
No SS rejections on "safe" auto-renewals (Netflix, iCloud, etc.). I had SS denied once for multiple small purchases on a foreign web site, but it was not due to SS per se, just the nature of the charges that triggered alarm bells at BofA. Once I confirmed with BofA that the charges were legit, they went through fine. OTOH, with VANs, there were about a dozen charges over a short period of time in 2018 that got rejected. These were specific to VANs as I was able to push through the charges just fine on the corresponding real Citi card. Citi's website continues to be flaky to this day on various other fronts :annoyed

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Frugal Al
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Frugal Al » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:25 am

Very disappointing. I use ShopSafe extensively. I doubt I'll stay with BofA with their discontinuance of the feature.

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dual
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by dual » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:50 pm

As I mentioned above, I use Shopsafe (SS) for two cases:

1. High risk transactions.
With SS closed I will just tough it out. If my credit card number gets on the dark web, I will trust the credit card issuer to detect the fraud and to close my card.

2. To stop retroactive charges.
In this case, I will look into Privacy.com. There is no fee to the user for their service. They say they make money from the credit card merchant fees. I do not know whether they allow multiple card numbers that can be closed after one use. If anyone has experience, please let us know. Otherwise, I will report back here when I use them.

batpot
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by batpot » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:26 pm

meh...who cares?
your card gets stolen, you get a new card over-nighted, and just have to update any auto-payments that use that card.

ARoseByAnyOtherName
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:37 pm

The main alternative I know of is privacy.com. I didn't sign up because it's not a true credit card, it debits your checking account instead which isn't what I wanted.

Apparently Revolut offers "Disposable virtual cards" with their $9.99 a month plan and is coming to the USA soon. But this still isn't a credit card and the feature isn't worth $10 a month to me.

I used to have a Final credit card which provided virtual card numbers, and gave you great control over those numbers. But unfortunately the company was acquired and the card shut down.

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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by abuss368 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:03 pm

Thank you for the update.
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by boomer_techie » Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:21 am

indexfundfan wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:43 pm
BofA ShopSafe going away
Another regular user of ShopSafe here...

Once upon a time I made a purchase from a small web merchant. The order arrived just fine. However... my card number and shipping information was apparently stolen. Within weeks it was used to "purchase" some sort of custom web site. BofA promptly caught and reversed this fraudulent use. A few months later, a debt collector called demanding payment of the reversed amount. :annoyed From then on, I started using ShopSafe for any online use other than Amazon, PayPal, and instances where I may later have to show a physical card (i.e. airline tickets.)

BofA says to use a digital wallet, ex. Apple Pay. I'm about to upgrade to an Apple Pay capable phone. However, how the heck do I use something on my phone to pay a random web site from which I'm trying to make a purchase via my computer? :confused

BTW, ShopSafe has been the only reason for me to retain a BofA card. Without it, I'd have moved on a long time ago.

student
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by student » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:03 am

I don't understand the rationale of ending it unless it is costing them a lot of money. Is it really that expensive to maintain this product? I remember American Express was the first to provide this service and I think at the beginning there was even a physical device. Then many banks followed but American Express was also the first to end it, claiming that not many people used the service and it has sufficient credit card protection in place. I think many competitors of BoA simply have one-time use numbers, which is not as good. For example, if you order something that will be billed when it ships later, some merchants will try to bill $1 as a test to make sure that it works, then reverse the charge and bill for the product later. This runs into an issue as the $1 counts as the first use. BoA's version is much more versatile.

Edit: It seems from a post below that Citi's version is about as versatile.
Last edited by student on Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by RickBoglehead » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:11 am

investor4life wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:37 am
I've used both Citi Virtual Account Numbers and BofA ShopSafe for years. One key difference: VAN is 1-time use even at the same merchant, whereas SS can be set to be used multiple times at the same merchant. I've found SS to be convenient for recurring monthly charges. It's never failed me whereas VANs have been rejected occasionally due to glitches at Citi.
That's not correct. Citi virtual numbers can be set to one use or repeat usage. You can also set the expiration date (minimum of 2 months), and the amount, and also go in and edit the settings. http://www.citibank.com/transactionserv ... /vcard.jsp

Not all Citi Cards offer this. For example, the Costco Visa does not. DoubleCash does, bit they are killing the benefits on those.
batpot wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:26 pm
meh...who cares?
your card gets stolen, you get a new card over-nighted, and just have to update any auto-payments that use that card.
I have lots of bills on my credit cards. Major pain in the butt to change them. Used to have to do it all the time with my Fidelity cards before they switched to Elan.
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by MikeG62 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:15 am

I don't understand all the handwringing over services like ShopSafe. After all, if the card is compromised the bank (CC company) is going to fully indemnify you for any losses. Because I have zero risk, I would not want to (don't) add any additional steps to an online (or store) purchase transaction.
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student
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by student » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:19 am

MikeG62 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:15 am
I don't understand all the handwringing over services like ShopSafe. After all, if the card is compromised the bank (CC company) is going to fully indemnify you for any losses. Because I have zero risk, I would not want to (don't) add any additional steps to an online (or store) purchase transaction.
It is just an extra layer of security that some of us enjoy. However, I almost exclusively use it for ordering a subscription that may be difficult to cancel.

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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by whodidntante » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:25 am

boomer_techie wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:21 am
indexfundfan wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:43 pm
BofA ShopSafe going away
BofA says to use a digital wallet, ex. Apple Pay. I'm about to upgrade to an Apple Pay capable phone. However, how the heck do I use something on my phone to pay a random web site from which I'm trying to make a purchase via my computer? :confused
The online vendor needs to support that payment method. Apple Pay is not widely accepted.

Not at all relevant to your question, but maybe helpful for others, is that Samsung Pay will work anywhere you can physically swipe a card. That's because it uses your phone to simulate a card swipe. It has worked everywhere I have tried it, and it really freaks some cashiers out. Some will try to warn you off that they don't accept apple pay or whatever, I just smile and hold my phone to the reader anyway.

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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by samsoes » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:38 am

Looking4Answers wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:51 pm
Capital One has Eno, which I have never used because Shopsafe enabled me to set a dollar and time limit. I suppose you can delete a virtual number with Eno immediately after using it. Would love to hear if anyone has experience with this.
With Capital One Eno, the temporary numbers can be deleted or just locked after using it. The lock feature works like a charm, new charges to a locked number are rejected.
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by arf30 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:38 am

I've been using the capital one virtual card numbers for things like gym memberships that will "accidently" bill you the month after you cancel. I'm surprised this isn't a more widespread feature.

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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by whodidntante » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:57 am

arf30 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:38 am
I've been using the capital one virtual card numbers for things like gym memberships that will "accidently" bill you the month after you cancel. I'm surprised this isn't a more widespread feature.
Yes, I do annual gym memberships and my gym is notorious for being nearly impossible to cancel. You're standing there facing their direct employee, they tell you it's canceled, and the charges continue and they can't find a record that you canceled. And it's really important that they not charge me without permission because I take advantage of promos each year and saves me more than $100. They can beat on my zero balance prepaid visa as much as they like. :happy

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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by whodidntante » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:10 am

For those who think ShopSafe protected you from difficult to cancel subscriptions, I don't think that's reliable. BoA offers an updater service to vendors for exactly this use case. Not all vendors use it. The idea is that by handing over your card info, you agreed to provide access to your credit card account not just a set of numbers. So the vendor can ask BoA to give a working CC number associated with your account, and they will. It's for your "convenience."

There are also reports for transactions getting approved in excess of requested ShopSafe limits. Now, if this never happened to you and you think I'm wrong, great. But ask me how I know it's not reliable. :twisted:

That's why I use prepaid cards. It's hard for a vendor to take money that isn't there.

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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by FrugalInvestor » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:23 am

MikeG62 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:15 am
I don't understand all the handwringing over services like ShopSafe. After all, if the card is compromised the bank (CC company) is going to fully indemnify you for any losses. Because I have zero risk, I would not want to (don't) add any additional steps to an online (or store) purchase transaction.

boomer_techie gives an excellent example of why above but there are numerous advantages of not having your (valid) card number floating around the internet and of being able to set both a time and dollar limit for each transaction. I'll trade the small inconvenience of of an additional step with the knowledge that I have full control of the transaction and my card number any day.
IGNORE the noise! | Our life is frittered away by detail... simplify, simplify. - Henry David Thoreau

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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by GaryA505 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:48 pm

Since BofA has excellent fraud detection and has never failed to credit me back for a fraudulent charge, I have little concern about that. However, I have used ShopSafe extensively for subscriptions. This is in case they don't cancel when I request, or I just forget to cancel. I also need it for my kid's online game purchases for obvious reasons (although gift cards or prepaid debit cards would work ine for that).

I need a service that allows both a time limit and a dollar limit.
It sounds like both Citi and Capitol One provide a service that would provide both of those, is that correct?

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RickBoglehead
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by RickBoglehead » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:56 pm

GaryA505 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:48 pm
Since BofA has excellent fraud detection and has never failed to credit me back for a fraudulent charge, I have little concern about that. However, I have used ShopSafe extensively for subscriptions. This is in case they don't cancel when I request, or I just forget to cancel. I also need it for my kid's online game purchases for obvious reasons (although gift cards or prepaid debit cards would work ine for that).

I need a service that allows both a time limit and a dollar limit.
It sounds like both Citi and Capitol One provide a service that would provide both of those, is that correct?
Citi does, yes. I don't give Capital One my credit card business, so can't comment.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by RickBoglehead » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:58 pm

FrugalInvestor wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:23 am
MikeG62 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:15 am
I don't understand all the handwringing over services like ShopSafe. After all, if the card is compromised the bank (CC company) is going to fully indemnify you for any losses. Because I have zero risk, I would not want to (don't) add any additional steps to an online (or store) purchase transaction.

boomer_techie gives an excellent example of why above but there are numerous advantages of not having your (valid) card number floating around the internet and of being able to set both a time and dollar limit for each transaction. I'll trade the small inconvenience of of an additional step with the knowledge that I have full control of the transaction and my card number any day.
Right.

If I want to change my electric and gas bill credit card, it takes 5 minutes. Comcast? 5 minutes per account (2 houses). Insurance company? 10 minutes. Google and Microsoft accounts for business, 10 minutes each. Probably 60 - 90 minutes every time I have to update my card number, and I'll forget some.

I use my credit card for 99% of my spending. Maybe more.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

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Ice-9
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by Ice-9 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:04 pm

I have an old B of A card I never use and was not aware of ShopSafe until this thread.

It sounds like it was a way to use virtual online account numbers? Assuming I have that correct, I've used a combo of Capital One's Eno and Paypal for that purpose. I also have a Citi card and am aware they offer similar, but if you're not on Windows (in other words, if you're on Mac or Linux) Citi requires you to enable Flash for this service, which I feel defeats the purpose of a security feature.

So any online transaction beyond Amazon, I use Paypal connected to my best cashback card where it's offered, and if Paypal is not offered I use the Capital One Eno virtual number generator extention.

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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by student » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:05 pm

whodidntante wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:10 am
For those who think ShopSafe protected you from difficult to cancel subscriptions, I don't think that's reliable. BoA offers an updater service to vendors for exactly this use case. Not all vendors use it. The idea is that by handing over your card info, you agreed to provide access to your credit card account not just a set of numbers. So the vendor can ask BoA to give a working CC number associated with your account, and they will. It's for your "convenience."

There are also reports for transactions getting approved in excess of requested ShopSafe limits. Now, if this never happened to you and you think I'm wrong, great. But ask me how I know it's not reliable. :twisted:

That's why I use prepaid cards. It's hard for a vendor to take money that isn't there.
Good to know. How do you get around paying for a fee to get a visa card from supermarket?

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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by MikeG62 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:46 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:58 pm
FrugalInvestor wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:23 am
MikeG62 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:15 am
I don't understand all the handwringing over services like ShopSafe. After all, if the card is compromised the bank (CC company) is going to fully indemnify you for any losses. Because I have zero risk, I would not want to (don't) add any additional steps to an online (or store) purchase transaction.

boomer_techie gives an excellent example of why above but there are numerous advantages of not having your (valid) card number floating around the internet and of being able to set both a time and dollar limit for each transaction. I'll trade the small inconvenience of of an additional step with the knowledge that I have full control of the transaction and my card number any day.
Right.

If I want to change my electric and gas bill credit card, it takes 5 minutes. Comcast? 5 minutes per account (2 houses). Insurance company? 10 minutes. Google and Microsoft accounts for business, 10 minutes each. Probably 60 - 90 minutes every time I have to update my card number, and I'll forget some.

I use my credit card for 99% of my spending. Maybe more.
Interestingly, my general purpose CC (Fidelity VISA) - the one I use all over the internet and for all transactions where a specific other card does not offer a better reward - was replaced earlier this year as the expiration date on the prior card had been reached (i.e., it had not been compromised in a long while). However, my Chase Sapphire Reserve card (which is used exclusively for hotels and restaurants) was comprised once in 2018 and twice this year already.

I had a CC compromised (back in 2016) and the replacement card sent was compromised before I ever charged a single thing to it. Long way of saying there is no way of knowing how or what causes cards to be compromised.

My experience would suggest it is not necessarily internet transactions (as many might logically think).

Perhaps BofA is cancelling the service as they to have found it’s not helpful in preventing or cutting down on credit card fraud?
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience

GaryA505
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by GaryA505 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:52 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:56 pm
GaryA505 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:48 pm
Since BofA has excellent fraud detection and has never failed to credit me back for a fraudulent charge, I have little concern about that. However, I have used ShopSafe extensively for subscriptions. This is in case they don't cancel when I request, or I just forget to cancel. I also need it for my kid's online game purchases for obvious reasons (although gift cards or prepaid debit cards would work ine for that).

I need a service that allows both a time limit and a dollar limit.
It sounds like both Citi and Capitol One provide a service that would provide both of those, is that correct?
Citi does, yes. I don't give Capital One my credit card business, so can't comment.
Looks like Citi Double Cash is the way to go for a VAN replacement. I'm thinking I'll use my AMEX Bluebird for one-time purchases like my kid's online game stuff, and the Citi Double Cash card using their VAN service for subscriptions and other stuff. If Citi lets me increase the dollar limit after first use (like Shopsafe did) I could also use it for subscription renewals.

PS: I hate auto-renewals.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by RickBoglehead » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:01 pm

GaryA505 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:52 pm
RickBoglehead wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:56 pm
GaryA505 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:48 pm
Since BofA has excellent fraud detection and has never failed to credit me back for a fraudulent charge, I have little concern about that. However, I have used ShopSafe extensively for subscriptions. This is in case they don't cancel when I request, or I just forget to cancel. I also need it for my kid's online game purchases for obvious reasons (although gift cards or prepaid debit cards would work ine for that).

I need a service that allows both a time limit and a dollar limit.
It sounds like both Citi and Capitol One provide a service that would provide both of those, is that correct?
Citi does, yes. I don't give Capital One my credit card business, so can't comment.
Looks like Citi Double Cash is the way to go for a VAN replacement. I'm thinking I'll use my AMEX Bluebird for one-time purchases like my kid's online game stuff, and the Citi Double Cash card using their VAN service for subscriptions and other stuff. If Citi lets me increase the dollar limit after first use (like Shopsafe did) I could also use it for subscription renewals.

PS: I hate auto-renewals.
Just be aware that as of 9/22, Citi DoubleCash loses the following benefits:

- additional 2 year warranty
- Price Rewind
- 90 day return protection
- lost baggage protection
- trip delay protection
- worldwide car rental insurance

and more.

Costco Visa by Citi keeps some of these, like the additional 2 year warranty.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

123
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Re: BofA ShopSafe going away

Post by 123 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:25 pm

whodidntante wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:10 am
... BoA offers an updater service to vendors for exactly this use case. Not all vendors use it. The idea is that by handing over your card info, you agreed to provide access to your credit card account not just a set of numbers. So the vendor can ask BoA to give a working CC number associated with your account, and they will. It's for your "convenience." ...
BofA has a very poor workaround for fraud problems involving this updater service. Last year I had a couple of fraudulent charges from Lyft, a service I have never used, I complained and BofA canceled the charge, and sent me a replacement card with a new number. When I got the replacement card I checked my account and found another fraudulent charge from Lyft on the new card number that was processed before I even received the card. I contacted BofA and they canceled the new fraudulent charge, and send me a replacement card with another new number. They also said that they would block all future charge from Lyft on my account and that if I ever wanted to use the card for Lyft I would need to contact BofA and have them remove the block they placed for Lyft on my account.

I'm very disappointed with the upcoming loss of ShopSafe which I have used a lot. I'll just move on to some alternative.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.

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