Refinance Mega Thread

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Miamilaw35
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Miamilaw35 »

Just locked in with loan flight at 2.5% on 350k.

No points, no loan origination fees, no lender credits, appraisal waved. I could have decided to go with a higher rate with lender credits. But my rationale is I'll be saving $300 / month in interest alone and can pay off the closing costs I'm rolling into the loan in 1.5 years or less if I keep making the same size payment I'm making now. I plan on keeping the house forever. I see many take the lender credits. Am I making a bad decision here ?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Miamilaw35 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:31 pm Just locked in with loan flight at 2.5% on 350k.

No points, no loan origination fees, no lender credits, appraisal waved. I could have decided to go with a higher rate with lender credits. But my rationale is I'll be saving $300 / month in interest alone and can pay off the closing costs I'm rolling into the loan in 1.5 years or less if I keep making the same size payment I'm making now. I plan on keeping the house forever. I see many take the lender credits. Am I making a bad decision here ?
You are not necessarily making a bad decision. However, two things:
1 - you need to compare points/lender credits to the other refi you can get, not the existing mortgage

2 - you might be conflating cost and cash flow. If you indeed are saving $300/mo in interest, then yes, break even is approximately closing costs divided by $300. However, if your payment is $300/mo less, that isn’t all interest savings and your cash flow & budget have $300/mo less in obligations.

For $350k at 2.5%, $300/mo in interest savings at the first payment would mean your current interest rate is 3.5% - 3.625%. So if your closing costs were say, $5,400, then your breakeven to refi is 1.5 years. If 2.75% would mean your closing costs are $2,400 (as a random example), it would mean 2.5% vs. 2.75% would take 42 months, or 3.5 years before you come out ahead at 2.5%.

Again, there is nothing inherently wrong with that if you feel you would have this mortgage more than 3.5 years. If you feel you would refi again or sell the property, then you would have been better off taking the 2.75% in my example above.
BarDownHockey
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BarDownHockey »

delete
Last edited by BarDownHockey on Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
leviathan
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by leviathan »

BarDownHockey wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:37 am I have two questions about Loan Estimates and lender credits:

1. Let’s say you have a LE that shows total costs of $3,950 and a lender credit of $4,000 (so I’d be paid $50 to refi). If I find an alternative title company that’s $500 less than the lender’s (I.e. the total costs drop to $3,450), should I expect the lender credit to still stay at $4,000? It seems like it should, otherwise what’s the reason to look for alternatives for the “services you can shop for”.

2. If you were given a LE, but the loan amount was lower than you applied for (the LO had to change it because the company had to update its systems to take account of the new conforming loan limits in 2021). You and the LO were upfront about the need to change the loan amount. The original LE showed a $4,000 lender credit. After the loan was updated back to the correct amount, the new LE had a reduced lender credit, down to $3,000 (all costs stayed the same though). Is that common and / or should I be holding firm that they offered a $4,000 lender credit and that’s what I’m expecting?
1. You are correct.
2. One thing that can happen is that LTV can change with the increased loan amount, which can lead a decrease of the lender credit. But you can offer to bring more cash to the closing so that the loan amount can remain the same. Then there is no reason/excuse for the decreased lender credit.
jaxxmjd
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jaxxmjd »

Just closed this morning on our refi. ~$310k at 2.000% VA fixed for 30 years. A+B+C-J (Credits) = $950. Originally financed the property at 4.25%, refied at 2.75% in 2012, and didn't expect it to ever drop to 2%, but managed to lock it in before the rates started creeping back up. Plan to pay it off as though it were a 15 year mortgage, but nice to have the flexibility of 30 year payments in case of an emergency. I don't anticipate any future refinances on this property.
AB609
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by AB609 »

bogledude23 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:24 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:12 pm
bogledude23 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:05 pm Update: So Better's Closing Expert just called and told me that their "Lock Desk" flagged my refi because it's within 6 months of my last refi with them. So now they are going to push closing (which was supposed to be tomorrow) to mid-Feb. He checked with his manager and confirmed. Anyone else experience this? I thought I remember multiple people refi'd with Better back to back well within 6 months.
A few folks have run into that in this thread. Better ends up extending the rate lock until the 6-mo timer runs out so they don’t have to repay the profit to the investor they sold the prior refi to. Maybe it’s a state things since it’s been sporadic if someone hits that snag.
Ok, so I'm not the only one. I specifically asked the Loan Originator when I started the process and he said it wasn't an issue. So I guess it's hit or miss.

They are extending the rate lock and I asked for a waiver of the property taxes due at closing since they'll be within 60 days on the new closing date. They are granting this with a statement from me that I promise to pay property taxes. I also asked for them to process the appraisal refund now rather than later. The other thing I will try is to watch the market and, if rates drop, see if I can get a better LE from LD or someone else and try to have Better match it.
I've run into it on a refi (2nd for the year) I have in process with Better. It has extended the closing by about a month but not really a big deal to me.
drk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drk »

Makjl29 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:15 pm I am locked with both Better and Loan Depot. Better just recently matched LoanDepot's offer. thank you for the advice here, y'all are so smart and saved me a ton. The only difference is (E) Recording Fees and Transfer taxes. Better is higher by $181. I thought this is the same regardless of the lender. Will it change eventually at the closing and I should not consider this in my decision?
Yes, that will change to be the same. When I locked, Better also had a higher number for E, but IIRC they corrected it when they got the initial title report back.
Makjl29 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:15 pm I am conditionally approved with Better and with Loan Depot I am still with underwriting but they waived appraisal. I am finding the process with Better more transparent but is it worth the waived appraisal of Loan Depot?
Assuming that the net cost is basically the same for both, that's really a personal question. If you don't feel comfortable having a stranger come to your house (or just don't feel like sprucing things up for them), then the appraisal waiver is pretty valuable.
dstac
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dstac »

skyno wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:20 pm
drk wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:11 pm
I'm usually pretty pro-tenant, but you're being extremely generous here. Assuming you signed a standard lease, it would have a provision for reasonable access when you need it. This is one of those times. Offering to pay for a cleaning service to come in is really going above and beyond your obligations.
Thanks for the response and you are correct that the lease does indeed give me this right with the proper notice, and like I said tenant has always been very easy to deal with and never pushed back about needing to enter before, but seems like Covid has changed everything and I'm in probably the most pro-tenant's rights city (San Francisco) so I want to tread carefully and keep my tenant very happy.
I'd vote for offering cash compensation or a night in a reasonably priced hotel if they want the space aired out. (Cash equal to the night in the hotel?) Cleaning seems to just bring more people through. You are being generous, but it sounds like this is a relationship that is important to you.
dstac
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dstac »

Investment property questions:

Looking at refinancing $150k on a $450k property, but the property has had some damage that permitting is going to take some time to repair. I'd like to take advantage of current rates which leads to some questions:

1) Does an investment property automatically trigger an appraisal?
2) Is there an opportunity to take cash out without triggering an appraisal? (If so, how much?)
3) Should I just be waiting until the repairs are done? Likely close to 6mos for $60k repair/remodel, but property value if appraised would likely rise to $600k+.

Thanks for any advice here. (& yes, the property is still worth $450k+ in current condition, but would likely be flagged during appraisal due to damage.)
skyno
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by skyno »

I'm sure this question or a similar one has probably been posted here before but a quick search / skim could not find the answer so here goes:

Some lenders have amazing rates/terms but take forever (180 days+) to close and others have good rates but will close in 30 days or less. Is there any reason why one could not lock both, close with a fast 30 days or less now, and then close again with better terms in 150+ days? I'm thinking it could potentially cause issues w/ underwriting or title if there are 2 going on simultaneously, but then again presumably the 150+ day operation will probably just sit there for a few months and do nothing, right? Thoughts? Thank you!
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BrandonBogle
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Post by BrandonBogle »

skyno wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:20 pm I'm sure this question or a similar one has probably been posted here before but a quick search / skim could not find the answer so here goes:

Some lenders have amazing rates/terms but take forever (180 days+) to close and others have good rates but will close in 30 days or less. Is there any reason why one could not lock both, close with a fast 30 days or less now, and then close again with better terms in 150+ days? I'm thinking it could potentially cause issues w/ underwriting or title if there are 2 going on simultaneously, but then again presumably the 150+ day operation will probably just sit there for a few months and do nothing, right? Thoughts? Thank you!
On the surface, there isn’t anything particularly wrong with that. However, keep in mind two things:
  1. The first lender has to repay all their profit from selling the loan to an investor if it is paid off within 6 months.
  2. If the two lenders realize you have an active app elsewhere, they may require you to close one out before proceeding. This tends to crop up more often when they both contract with the same title/settlement firm.
skyno
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by skyno »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:39 pm
On the surface, there isn’t anything particularly wrong with that. However, keep in mind two things:
  1. The first lender has to repay all their profit from selling the loan to an investor if it is paid off within 6 months.
  2. If the two lenders realize you have an active app elsewhere, they may require you to close one out before proceeding. This tends to crop up more often when they both contract with the same title/settlement firm.
Thank you for the response - this is good to know.
apranger
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by apranger »

Just a data point to update the thread.

I'm signing for my 2nd refi of the past 12 months today, this time with Better.com. The sizeable jump in the conforming loan limit allowed us to bring a little to the table and move from a jumbo to a conforming. Borrowing $548,250 (the max in our area) on a ~$1M house.

2.375% 30 year fixed - No cost
Better waived appraisal and issued a lender credit to cover approx $2600 in costs (A+B+C = $2200, plus $400 recording fees)

Started hunting after Christmas. I got a 2.5% no cost quote from LenderFi, was beat by 0.125% by Better.com and I locked with them that day - 12/28. Loan Depot was communicative but kind of a waste of time. LenderFi took a look at Better's offer and said they couldn't beat it either. I think I caught a great day to lock - Seems the best LF or LD could do after the fact was in the 2.5% range.

We're signing less than 30 days later and it has been very smooth. Better's website is the best refi portal I've ever used - Clean handoff at each stage, clear comms, easy to reach the reps via email & phone. HUGE difference compared to the ridiculous 6 months we endured with NFCU from Feb to Aug last year.
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

UPDATE: Refinancing $330k and LenderFI has offered 2.625 with zero closing costs for a 30-year FRM.

LenderFi has sent me a Closing Disclosure and this looks like it's the final numbers for the loan. Is that right?

Final closing costs came out to be $1901 with a lender credit of $1881. Interestingly, the lender credit was not increased to $1901. What seems odd to me, though it may not be odd at all, is that the initial disclosure I received had Escrow at $4400 counting home owners insurance at 13 months and Prop Taxes at 7 months. But in the final disclosure, they have Escrow at $2100 with 2 months homeowners insurance and 5 months of property taxes. Does that sound right to reduce the number of months at final closing to determine the amount for escrow?

Now, more interestingly, LoanDepot finally got back to me today and after coming at me with a 2.99% (lols) with $4k coming back to me at closing, I told them I had the LenderFi offer of 2.625. LoanDepot reviewed the LE and called me back indicating that they would go 2.5%! So, now just waiting for LoanDepot to get back to me.

Lastly, I sent the LenderFi 2.625 to Better for a match on Thursday and they haven't gotten back to me on it, though, they did send me an email that were moving forward to underwriting on the 2.750 offer that gave me. So, I replied indicating that I sent them the 2.625 from LenderFi and, again, asked them if they could match or improve it.
Last edited by JMak97008 on Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.
giddyup969
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by giddyup969 »

Just to add data point

Final CD received today from Loan Depot in 12 calendar days from locking on 1/13. They had their own title company but I had requested to use the one I shopped for; they then gave the lender credit for the difference

Primary home.
Current rate: 2.875% 30Y
Loan Amount:375K
LTV: 67%
Term: 15y
Rate: 2%
Out the door costs: A+B+C+E = $1586

Impressed at the speed at which LD was able to close; for one my investment properties it took 4 months and I was on the hook for the appraisal so did not switch;
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Hector
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Hector »

JMak97008 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:11 pm UPDATE: Refinancing $330k and LenderFI has offered 2.625 with zero closing costs.

LenderFi has sent me a Closing Disclosure and this looks like it's the final numbers for the loan. Is that right?

Final closing costs came out to be $1901 with a lender credit of $1881. Interestingly, the lender credit was not increased to $1901. What seems odd to me, though it may not be odd at all, is that the initial disclosure I received had Escrow at $4400 counting home owners insurance at 13 months and Prop Taxes at 7 months. But in the final disclosure, they have Escrow at $2100 with 2 months homeowners insurance and 5 months of property taxes. Does that sound right to reduce the number of months at final closing to determine the amount for escrow?

Now, more interestingly, LoanDepot finally got back to me today and after coming at me with a 2.99% (lols) with $4k coming back to me at closing, I told them I had the LenderFi offer of 2.625. LoanDepot reviewed the LE and called me back indicating that they would go 2.5%! So, now just waiting for LoanDepot to get back to me.

Lastly, I sent the LenderFi 2.625 to Better for a match on Thursday and they haven't gotten back to me on it, though, they did send me an email that were moving forward to underwriting on the 2.750 offer that gave me. So, I replied indicating that I sent them the 2.625 from LenderFi and, again, asked them if they could match or improve it.
How many landers are you negotiating with?
Any ideas if rates are different for refinance VS new loan?
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Hector
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Hector »

Is this a relevant thread for looking into a new loan (not refinance)?
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

Hector wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:44 pm
JMak97008 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:11 pm UPDATE: Refinancing $330k and LenderFI has offered 2.625 with zero closing costs.

LenderFi has sent me a Closing Disclosure and this looks like it's the final numbers for the loan. Is that right?

Final closing costs came out to be $1901 with a lender credit of $1881. Interestingly, the lender credit was not increased to $1901. What seems odd to me, though it may not be odd at all, is that the initial disclosure I received had Escrow at $4400 counting home owners insurance at 13 months and Prop Taxes at 7 months. But in the final disclosure, they have Escrow at $2100 with 2 months homeowners insurance and 5 months of property taxes. Does that sound right to reduce the number of months at final closing to determine the amount for escrow?

Now, more interestingly, LoanDepot finally got back to me today and after coming at me with a 2.99% (lols) with $4k coming back to me at closing, I told them I had the LenderFi offer of 2.625. LoanDepot reviewed the LE and called me back indicating that they would go 2.5%! So, now just waiting for LoanDepot to get back to me.

Lastly, I sent the LenderFi 2.625 to Better for a match on Thursday and they haven't gotten back to me on it, though, they did send me an email that were moving forward to underwriting on the 2.750 offer that gave me. So, I replied indicating that I sent them the 2.625 from LenderFi and, again, asked them if they could match or improve it.
How many landers are you negotiating with?
Any ideas if rates are different for refinance VS new loan?
I started negotiating with local broker and 3 online lenders and have added 2 more lenders. Actively engaged with 3 lenders, though Better doesnt seem to want to respond.

Since last Wednesday, I've gone from 2.750 to 2.625 to possibly 2.50 if Loan Depot comes through.
BackToSchoolDad
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BackToSchoolDad »

Curious to get the opinions of the experts here. Current mortgage is 28y remaining at 4.25, 89,000 left, house appraised for 114,000. Plan on staying here for another 10 years at least.

Refi 1: 30y no closing costs at 3.25.
Refi 2: 30y $1,500 in closing costs at 2.875.

Going with no closing costs means we will invest the difference as we have remaining IRA space for 2020. It seems like the total interest differences aren't too huge, and the P&I will be only 15ish less at 2.875.

What's the best course of action here?
Last edited by BackToSchoolDad on Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
leofox
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by leofox »

I assume refinance rates differ from one state to another. Could anyone share what 30Y and 15Y rates you are getting in NY
2quiker
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 2quiker »

JMak97008 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:52 pm
Hector wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:44 pm
JMak97008 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:11 pm UPDATE: Refinancing $330k and LenderFI has offered 2.625 with zero closing costs.

LenderFi has sent me a Closing Disclosure and this looks like it's the final numbers for the loan. Is that right?

Final closing costs came out to be $1901 with a lender credit of $1881. Interestingly, the lender credit was not increased to $1901. What seems odd to me, though it may not be odd at all, is that the initial disclosure I received had Escrow at $4400 counting home owners insurance at 13 months and Prop Taxes at 7 months. But in the final disclosure, they have Escrow at $2100 with 2 months homeowners insurance and 5 months of property taxes. Does that sound right to reduce the number of months at final closing to determine the amount for escrow?

Now, more interestingly, LoanDepot finally got back to me today and after coming at me with a 2.99% (lols) with $4k coming back to me at closing, I told them I had the LenderFi offer of 2.625. LoanDepot reviewed the LE and called me back indicating that they would go 2.5%! So, now just waiting for LoanDepot to get back to me.

Lastly, I sent the LenderFi 2.625 to Better for a match on Thursday and they haven't gotten back to me on it, though, they did send me an email that were moving forward to underwriting on the 2.750 offer that gave me. So, I replied indicating that I sent them the 2.625 from LenderFi and, again, asked them if they could match or improve it.
How many landers are you negotiating with?
Any ideas if rates are different for refinance VS new loan?
I started negotiating with local broker and 3 online lenders and have added 2 more lenders. Actively engaged with 3 lenders, though Better doesnt seem to want to respond.

Since last Wednesday, I've gone from 2.750 to 2.625 to possibly 2.50 if Loan Depot comes through.
Ya Better response is not very good, if you are go get her/on top of things and wanting a lot of communication Better is not a good lender for that response in my opinion. Could be that they are supper busy but that's been my experience.
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

'Nother Update:

Lender Fi is ready to close on the 28th. I just started with them Last Wednesday...wow.

I was awaiting a call back from LoanDepot as they were looking for a 2.50 rate for me. After waiting a few hours, I emailed the LO back to let him know that LenderFi was ready to close and while I could delay a bit in responding, I wanted to check in with him to see where we were at with a 2.5%. His response was to "Go with them. I won't be closing for at least 45 days".

Exciting, though, is that Better finally got back to me after I followed up via phone. Within two hours Better came back and matched LenderFi's 2.625, though Better's loan amount is the same as my mortgage payoff amount. LenderFi's loan amount was $3122 more than my payoff. I couldn't figure it out...until I looked at the Estimated Cash FROM Borrower which is...gasp...$5,335.

So, looks like I'll be going with LenderFi unless I am missing something.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

BackToSchoolDad wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:17 pm Curious to get the opinions of the experts here. Current mortgage is 28y remaining at 4.25, 89,000 left, house appraised for 114,000. Plan on staying here for another 10 years at least.

Refi 1: 30y no closing costs at 3.25.
Refi 2: 30y $1,500 in closing costs at 2.875.

Going with no closing costs means we will invest the difference as we have remaining IRA space for 2020. It seems like the total interest differences aren't too huge, and the P&I will be only 15ish less at 2.875.

What's the best course of action here?
At your loan amount, do the 3.25% to avoid closing costs.
presto987
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Post by presto987 »

BackToSchoolDad wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:17 pm Curious to get the opinions of the experts here. Current mortgage is 28y remaining at 4.25, 89,000 left, house appraised for 114,000. Plan on staying here for another 10 years at least.

Refi 1: 30y no closing costs at 3.25.
Refi 2: 30y $1,500 in closing costs at 2.875.

Going with no closing costs means we will invest the difference as we have remaining IRA space for 2020. It seems like the total interest differences aren't too huge, and the P&I will be only 15ish less at 2.875.

What's the best course of action here?
When comparing these two offers, the breakeven is around 4.5 years. Meaning Refi 1 is better if you keep the loan for less than that period of time, but Refi 2 is better if you keep it for longer.

Usually I would recommend that people go with the no-cost option, because there is a decent chance that you would either refi again or sell the house before the breakeven period is up. However, given that you have a pretty low balance, I'm not sure if another refi would be feasible, so if you plan to stay for at least 10 years, then Refi 2 might be the way to go.

If you have remaining IRA space that you want to use, you may still be able to do this with Refi 2 if they let you roll the closing costs into the loan. That will raise your LTV, so not sure if it would negatively impact your pricing, but you can ask.

EDIT: Just saw Brandon's response. Although the $1500 closing costs are high as a percent of the loan amount, we're also talking about a 0.375% interest rate difference between the two options. So I don't think it's a no-brainer one way or the other.
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BrandonBogle
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Post by BrandonBogle »

presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:19 pm
BackToSchoolDad wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:17 pm Curious to get the opinions of the experts here. Current mortgage is 28y remaining at 4.25, 89,000 left, house appraised for 114,000. Plan on staying here for another 10 years at least.

Refi 1: 30y no closing costs at 3.25.
Refi 2: 30y $1,500 in closing costs at 2.875.

Going with no closing costs means we will invest the difference as we have remaining IRA space for 2020. It seems like the total interest differences aren't too huge, and the P&I will be only 15ish less at 2.875.

What's the best course of action here?
When comparing these two offers, the breakeven is around 4.5 years. Meaning Refi 1 is better if you keep the loan for less than that period of time, but Refi 2 is better if you keep it for longer.

Usually I would recommend that people go with the no-cost option, because there is a decent chance that you would either refi again or sell the house before the breakeven period is up. However, given that you have a pretty low balance, I'm not sure if another refi would be feasible, so if you plan to stay for at least 10 years, then Refi 2 might be the way to go.

If you have remaining IRA space that you want to use, you may still be able to do this with Refi 2 if they let you roll the closing costs into the loan. That will raise your LTV, so not sure if it would negatively impact your pricing, but you can ask.

EDIT: Just saw Brandon's response. Although the $1500 closing costs are high as a percent of the loan amount, we're also talking about a 0.375% interest rate difference between the two options. So I don't think it's a no-brainer one way or the other.
Yes, but I got the impression that if BackToSchoolDad pays closing costs, then he won’t maximize his retirement accounts. At the low amount of interest cost, I was thinking he should focus on maximizing tax-advantaged space.

If tax-advantaged space will be maxed regardless, then yes, a 4.5 year breakeven is a tossup. And if the balance was larger, the interest cost could be worth getting the lower rate.

Regardless the decision, it’s a good move and there won’t be any serious negatives to either choice.
presto987
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Post by presto987 »

JMak97008 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:38 pm 'Nother Update:

Lender Fi is ready to close on the 28th. I just started with them Last Wednesday...wow.

I was awaiting a call back from LoanDepot as they were looking for a 2.50 rate for me. After waiting a few hours, I emailed the LO back to let him know that LenderFi was ready to close and while I could delay a bit in responding, I wanted to check in with him to see where we were at with a 2.5%. His response was to "Go with them. I won't be closing for at least 45 days".

Exciting, though, is that Better finally got back to me after I followed up via phone. Within two hours Better came back and matched LenderFi's 2.625, though Better's loan amount is the same as my mortgage payoff amount. LenderFi's loan amount was $3122 more than my payoff. I couldn't figure it out...until I looked at the Estimated Cash FROM Borrower which is...gasp...$5,335.

So, looks like I'll be going with LenderFi unless I am missing something.
A few things to consider:

- Your post said that LoanDepot was going to offer you 2.5%, but that doesn't tell you the whole story. You should find out what they're actually offering in terms of costs and lender credit at that rate.

- LoanDepot allows you to increase your rate in order to get lender credits that you can apply to prepaids and escrow costs. So for example, if they offer you 2.5% at no cost, then you can ask them to go up to 2.625% and increase your lender credit by something like half a point. If your prepaids and escrow are high enough, you can even go higher than that. In other words, you can make money with your loan and apply it to things you would have had to pay anyway, in exchange for a higher interest rate. It would be interesting to find out what the net cost is at 2.625%, because that is directly comparable to LenderFi's offer, and you can see how much money you'd be leaving on the table if you went with LenderFi.

- Even though LenderFi is ready to close, you should find out what LD is actually offering so you can make an informed decision. For example, if LD is giving you $1650 net credit at 2.625%, would you be willing to essentially pay that much for shortening your timeline by 45 days? I personally would be willing to wait, but if you don't want to spend more time on this process, then I can certainly understand taking a bird in the hand and getting done with it.

- Better's loan amount can be adjusted. If you have to bring a lot of cash to closing because of prepaids and escrow, you can get those rolled into the loan.

- You need to compare Better's net costs (after credits) to LenderFi's. Most likely Better beat LenderFi by $100, because that is their usual approach. But if the appraisal is still on Better's LE, and you qualify for a waiver, then you will come out ahead by $100 plus the appraisal fee.

- To respond to your previous post about the number of months of escrow, these numbers get estimated upfront and are finalized when you get your Closing Disclosure. So it is common for the numbers to change.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:31 pm A few things to consider:

- Your post said that LoanDepot was going to offer you 2.5%, but that doesn't tell you the whole story. You should find out what they're actually offering in terms of costs and lender credit at that rate.
Apparently, LD can't get to the 2.5 the LO was shooting for.
presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:31 pm - LoanDepot allows you to increase your rate in order to get lender credits that you can apply to prepaids and escrow costs. So for example, if they offer you 2.5% at no cost, then you can ask them to go up to 2.625% and increase your lender credit by something like half a point. If your prepaids and escrow are high enough, you can even go higher than that. In other words, you can make money with your loan and apply it to things you would have had to pay anyway, in exchange for a higher interest rate. It would be interesting to find out what the net cost is at 2.625%, because that is directly comparable to LenderFi's offer, and you can see how much money you'd be leaving on the table if you went with LenderFi.
LDs cost for 2.625 is $3790, but I dont have a LE from LD, yet.
presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:31 pm - Even though LenderFi is ready to close, you should find out what LD is actually offering so you can make an informed decision. For example, if LD is giving you $1650 net credit at 2.625%, would you be willing to essentially pay that much for shortening your timeline by 45 days? I personally would be willing to wait, but if you don't want to spend more time on this process, then I can certainly understand taking a bird in the hand and getting done with it.
Yeah, I would wait. Refi right now is a choice, not a need.
presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:31 pm - Better's loan amount can be adjusted. If you have to bring a lot of cash to closing because of prepaids and escrow, you can get those rolled into the loan.

- You need to compare Better's net costs (after credits) to LenderFi's. Most likely Better beat LenderFi by $100, because that is their usual approach. But if the appraisal is still on Better's LE, and you qualify for a waiver, then you will come out ahead by $100 plus the appraisal fee.
Ok, thanks for providing some insight into this. I keep forgetting that I can adjust the amount of $ Im willing to bring to the table.

Net cost here meaning sum of ABCEFGH - Lender Credits?
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

Im wondering if someone would be willing to look at some closing cost snaps for me from Better, LenderFi, and LoanDepot? Im having a hard seeing how to properly compare these.

Better is not rolling costs into the loan amount, LD is rolling some/all, while LenderFi is rolling everything into the loan amount. All 3 are at 2.625%.

Better - https://i.imgur.com/nfku8rr.png

LenderFi - https://i.imgur.com/Kmtpw6J.png

LoanDepot - https://i.imgur.com/0VCYwVh.png

Loan Amount:
Better - $330,920
LenderFi - $334,042
LoanDepot - $335,000

A+B+C
Better - $2625 (includes $550 for appraisal which has been waived)
LenderFi - $1901
LoanDepot - $3600 (includes $1595 underwriting and processing)

Principal and Interest are/will be rolled into the monthly payment. Those numbers are $501.79/mo taxes and $60.83/mo insurance.

Lender Credits - Only LenderFi is offering a credit at $1880.66.
Last edited by JMak97008 on Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by BrandonBogle »

JMak97008 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:00 pm Net cost here meaning sum of ABCEFGH - Lender Credits?
Not quite.

A + B + C + E - lender credits

E and F are stuff you already pay even if you don't refi. If you have something in H, please provide the line item detail to determine if it is a cost to refi or just a cost of having a home/mortgage.
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Post by BrandonBogle »

JMak97008 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:22 pm Im wondering if someone would be willing to look at some closing cost snaps for me from Better, LenderFi, and LoanDepot? Im having a hard seeing how to properly compare these.

Better is not rolling costs into the loan amount, LD is rolling some/all, while LenderFi is rolling everything into the loan amount. All 3 are at 2.625%.

Better - https://i.imgur.com/nfku8rr.png

LenderFi - https://i.imgur.com/Kmtpw6J.png

LoanDepot - https://i.imgur.com/0VCYwVh.png

Loan Amount:
Better - $330,920
LenderFi - $334,042
LoanDepot - $335,000

A+B+C
Better - $2625 (includes $550 for appraisal which has been waived)
LenderFi - $1901
LoanDepot - $3600 (includes $1595 origination)

Principal and Interest are/will be rolled into the monthly payment. Those numbers are $501.79/mo taxes and $60.83/mo insurance.

Lender Credits - Only LenderFi is offering a credit at $1880.66.
Assuming Better and Loan Depot are overestimated for E (this is common for Better at least) and would match what LenderFi has when you get to closing disclosures vs. a loan estimate, then the cost to refi is:
  • Better = $2,816 - $2,642 = $174
  • LenderFi = $2,092 - $1,881 = $211
  • LoanDepot = $3,791 - $0 = $3,791
LoanDepot is not competitive (at least with this offer presented). Better and LenderFi are neck and neck, with Better being slightly cheaper. If you ask your loan officer to increase your Better loan amount to $334,042, then Better's lender credits will also go up and make the loan even cheaper.

However, at the costs shown, I would just close with LenderFi since they are ready to close. You could ask LenderFi to increase your loan amount by $2,995 so you don't have to bring anything to closing, but they may not be receptive to changing the loan amount when they've already prepared closing disclosures. I know Better will change them up until closing, but I don't know if LenderFi stops (absent a mistake) once they create the disclosures.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

JMak97008 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:22 pm Im wondering if someone would be willing to look at some closing cost snaps for me from Better, LenderFi, and LoanDepot? Im having a hard seeing how to properly compare these.
The thing to focus on when comparing offers is A+B+C (which is also known as D) minus lender credit. E matters when deciding whether to refi and whether a deal is "no cost", but it doesn't matter when comparing offers.

LoanDepot doesn't have any lender credit, so they are out.

Better and LenderFi each have lender credits that exactly cover the costs in D, plus or minus a few dollars. (Not sure why you said that only LenderFi is offering a credit. You have a credit from Better in section J).

When your Better appraisal gets waived, then Better's offer will be $550 better (actually $587).

If you don't want to go out of pocket on prepaids/escrow, you should be able to ask any of these lenders to increase your loan amount. You say that LF is rolling everything into the loan amount, but that doesn't appear to be the case as you still have some out of pocket costs.

With Better, you can also ask how much lender credit you would get if you bumped up your rate to 2.75%. Depending on your circumstances, this might be a better deal than your 2.625% deal.

The bottom line is that the Better and LF offers are comparable. With Better you can come out $600 ahead and also have the option of getting more lender credit. But LF is ready to close. Up to you how you'd want to play it.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:29 pm Assuming Better and Loan Depot are overestimated for E (this is common for Better at least) and would match what LenderFi has when you get to closing disclosures vs. a loan estimate, then the cost to refi is:
  • Better = $2,816 - $2,642 = $174
  • LenderFi = $2,092 - $1,881 = $211
  • LoanDepot = $3,791 - $0 = $3,791
LoanDepot is not competitive (at least with this offer presented). Better and LenderFi are neck and neck, with Better being slightly cheaper. If you ask your loan officer to increase your Better loan amount to $334,042, then Better's lender credits will also go up and make the loan even cheaper.

However, at the costs shown, I would just close with LenderFi since they are ready to close. You could ask LenderFi to increase your loan amount by $2,995 so you don't have to bring anything to closing, but they may not be receptive to changing the loan amount when they've already prepared closing disclosures. I know Better will change them up until closing, but I don't know if LenderFi stops (absent a mistake) once they create the disclosures.
Got it, thank you! Yeah, I just talked to LoanDepot, again...their "origination fee" is really what they're charging for underwriting and processing. They're just not competitive, so I'll consider just Better and LenderFi.

I just asked Better to up the loan amount to LenderFi's $334042 and hope to see a LE quickly.

With LenderFi, I see that I am getting $109.64 at closing rather than having to bring $2995 to closing.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:34 pm When your Better appraisal gets waived, then Better's offer will be $550 better (actually $587).
Where's that extra $37 coming from?
presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:34 pmIf you don't want to go out of pocket on prepaids/escrow, you should be able to ask any of these lenders to increase your loan amount. You say that LF is rolling everything into the loan amount, but that doesn't appear to be the case as you still have some out of pocket costs.
Brandon indicated the same about out of pocket costs with LF, but Im not seeing what you guys, unless you're referring to the $2995 that is being rolled into the loan amount. And now I can see why we'd characterize that out of pocket even if Im not bringing that as cash to table at closing.
presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:34 pmWith Better, you can also ask how much lender credit you would get if you bumped up your rate to 2.75%. Depending on your circumstances, this might be a better deal than your 2.625% deal.
Can you elaborate, please?

EDIT - Better's initial 2.750 offer had $420 in lender credits, but that's form last Tuesday.
presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:34 pmThe bottom line is that the Better and LF offers are comparable. With Better you can come out $600 ahead and also have the option of getting more lender credit. But LF is ready to close. Up to you how you'd want to play it.
$600 coming from the appraisal waiver and the increase in lender credit will reduce the amount being rolled into the loan amount, right?

Again, please forgive me if my questions are exasperating...
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Post by BrandonBogle »

presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:34 pm When your Better appraisal gets waived, then Better's offer will be $550 better (actually $587).
...
The bottom line is that the Better and LF offers are comparable. With Better you can come out $600 ahead and also have the option of getting more lender credit. But LF is ready to close. Up to you how you'd want to play it.
Ugh. I neglected to consider the appraisal waiver, assuming it applies through Fannie's desktop underwriting system (more likely than unlikely).
JMak97008 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:43 pm With LenderFi, I see that I am getting $109.64 at closing rather than having to bring $2995 to closing.
JMak97008 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:50 pm
presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:34 pmIf you don't want to go out of pocket on prepaids/escrow, you should be able to ask any of these lenders to increase your loan amount. You say that LF is rolling everything into the loan amount, but that doesn't appear to be the case as you still have some out of pocket costs.
Brandon indicated the same about out of pocket costs with LF, but Im not seeing what you guys, unless you're referring to the $2995 that is being rolled into the loan amount. And now I can see why we'd characterize that out of pocket even if Im not bringing that as cash to table at closing.
That is not how I read your Closing Disclosure. However, it may end up being that way depending on how the next page showing payoffs compares to the loan amount.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

JMak97008 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:50 pm
presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:34 pm When your Better appraisal gets waived, then Better's offer will be $550 better (actually $587).
Where's that extra $37 coming from?
presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:34 pmIf you don't want to go out of pocket on prepaids/escrow, you should be able to ask any of these lenders to increase your loan amount. You say that LF is rolling everything into the loan amount, but that doesn't appear to be the case as you still have some out of pocket costs.
Brandon indicated the same about out of pocket costs with LF, but Im not seeing what you guys, unless you're referring to the $2995 that is being rolled into the loan amount. And now I can see why we'd characterize that out of pocket even if Im not bringing that as cash to table at closing.
presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:34 pmWith Better, you can also ask how much lender credit you would get if you bumped up your rate to 2.75%. Depending on your circumstances, this might be a better deal than your 2.625% deal.
Can you elaborate, please?

EDIT - Better's initial 2.750 offer had $420 in lender credits, but that's form last Tuesday.
presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:34 pmThe bottom line is that the Better and LF offers are comparable. With Better you can come out $600 ahead and also have the option of getting more lender credit. But LF is ready to close. Up to you how you'd want to play it.
$600 coming from the appraisal waiver and the increase in lender credit will reduce the amount being rolled into the loan amount, right?

Again, please forgive me if my questions are exasperating...
1. $37 is just the difference in cost between Better and LenderFi (see Brandon's post where he had Better at $174 and LenderFi at $211 including an estimate of section E costs).

2. Sorry, I think we were wrong about going out of pocket with LF. I was seeing the $2995 total closing costs, but you indicated that they had increased the loan amount by the same amount compared to the payoff to your current lender. My mistake!

3. Regarding the 2.75% option: when you lock with Better, you lock a whole rate table. This means that they will let you reduce your rate if you pay points or take a higher rate for more lender credit. You should be able to see this on your portal, unless you've already locked, in which case you will have to ask what the other options look like.

4. Correct on the last point.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:57 pm
presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:34 pm When your Better appraisal gets waived, then Better's offer will be $550 better (actually $587).
...
The bottom line is that the Better and LF offers are comparable. With Better you can come out $600 ahead and also have the option of getting more lender credit. But LF is ready to close. Up to you how you'd want to play it.
Ugh. I neglected to consider the appraisal waiver, assuming it applies through Fannie's desktop underwriting system (more likely than unlikely).
JMak97008 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:43 pm With LenderFi, I see that I am getting $109.64 at closing rather than having to bring $2995 to closing.
JMak97008 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:50 pm
presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:34 pmIf you don't want to go out of pocket on prepaids/escrow, you should be able to ask any of these lenders to increase your loan amount. You say that LF is rolling everything into the loan amount, but that doesn't appear to be the case as you still have some out of pocket costs.
Brandon indicated the same about out of pocket costs with LF, but Im not seeing what you guys, unless you're referring to the $2995 that is being rolled into the loan amount. And now I can see why we'd characterize that out of pocket even if Im not bringing that as cash to table at closing.
That is not how I read your Closing Disclosure. However, it may end up being that way depending on how the next page showing payoffs compares to the loan amount.
Ah, Im sorry...I didn't show that - does this help? https://i.imgur.com/Ne4Q1xM.png
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Post by Hector »

presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:31 pm
JMak97008 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:38 pm 'Nother Update:

Lender Fi is ready to close on the 28th. I just started with them Last Wednesday...wow.

I was awaiting a call back from LoanDepot as they were looking for a 2.50 rate for me. After waiting a few hours, I emailed the LO back to let him know that LenderFi was ready to close and while I could delay a bit in responding, I wanted to check in with him to see where we were at with a 2.5%. His response was to "Go with them. I won't be closing for at least 45 days".

Exciting, though, is that Better finally got back to me after I followed up via phone. Within two hours Better came back and matched LenderFi's 2.625, though Better's loan amount is the same as my mortgage payoff amount. LenderFi's loan amount was $3122 more than my payoff. I couldn't figure it out...until I looked at the Estimated Cash FROM Borrower which is...gasp...$5,335.

So, looks like I'll be going with LenderFi unless I am missing something.
A few things to consider:

- Your post said that LoanDepot was going to offer you 2.5%, but that doesn't tell you the whole story. You should find out what they're actually offering in terms of costs and lender credit at that rate.

- LoanDepot allows you to increase your rate in order to get lender credits that you can apply to prepaids and escrow costs. So for example, if they offer you 2.5% at no cost, then you can ask them to go up to 2.625% and increase your lender credit by something like half a point. If your prepaids and escrow are high enough, you can even go higher than that. In other words, you can make money with your loan and apply it to things you would have had to pay anyway, in exchange for a higher interest rate. It would be interesting to find out what the net cost is at 2.625%, because that is directly comparable to LenderFi's offer, and you can see how much money you'd be leaving on the table if you went with LenderFi.

- Even though LenderFi is ready to close, you should find out what LD is actually offering so you can make an informed decision. For example, if LD is giving you $1650 net credit at 2.625%, would you be willing to essentially pay that much for shortening your timeline by 45 days? I personally would be willing to wait, but if you don't want to spend more time on this process, then I can certainly understand taking a bird in the hand and getting done with it.

- Better's loan amount can be adjusted. If you have to bring a lot of cash to closing because of prepaids and escrow, you can get those rolled into the loan.

- You need to compare Better's net costs (after credits) to LenderFi's. Most likely Better beat LenderFi by $100, because that is their usual approach. But if the appraisal is still on Better's LE, and you qualify for a waiver, then you will come out ahead by $100 plus the appraisal fee.

- To respond to your previous post about the number of months of escrow, these numbers get estimated upfront and are finalized when you get your Closing Disclosure. So it is common for the numbers to change.
I read "escrow" in the post. Seems like this is new mortgage.
You mentioned that one can roll escrow and prepaids into loan. Is escrow same as deposit? What is the difference between escrow and prepaids?
If I am putting 20% down, are escrown and prepaids different from down payment?
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Post by JMak97008 »

Hector wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:06 pm I read "escrow" in the post. Seems like this is new mortgage.
You mentioned that one can roll escrow and prepaids into loan. Is escrow same as deposit? What is the difference between escrow and prepaids?
If I am putting 20% down, are escrown and prepaids different from down payment?
Im refinancing. Escrow is a separate account into which monies for property taxes and home insurance are held until they are due. You do "prepay" a portion of property taxes and home insurance when you close the new loan (whether its a new mortgage or a refinanced loan amount). Depending on the timing and when each of those is due, the amount collected at closing and placed into escrow will vary. Then, your monthly payments going forward will continue to fund that escrow so that at tax time or time to pay the insurance, your lender (or whoever is servicing the loan) will pay the prop tax/insurance on your behalf from that escrow account.

Other prepaid items are mortgage insurance or PMI if you were making a down payment of less than 20%.

Your down payment is applied directly to the cost of the house or, in other words, to reduce the amount of money you're financing.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BackToSchoolDad »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:29 pm
Yes, but I got the impression that if BackToSchoolDad pays closing costs, then he won’t maximize his retirement accounts. At the low amount of interest cost, I was thinking he should focus on maximizing tax-advantaged space.

If tax-advantaged space will be maxed regardless, then yes, a 4.5 year breakeven is a tossup. And if the balance was larger, the interest cost could be worth getting the lower rate.

Regardless the decision, it’s a good move and there won’t be any serious negatives to either choice.
We could potentially pay closing costs and still maximize, but they would leave our EF a little thin for a bit.

I hadn't considered rolling in the costs in as I don't like the idea of that in general, but it still leads to less overall interest and a reduced payment.

It sounds like there's no wrong answer really, which is good to know. I'll have to muck around in refi calculators and ponder this some more. Thanks for the help!
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JMak97008 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:04 pm Ah, Im sorry...I didn't show that - does this help? https://i.imgur.com/Ne4Q1xM.png
Yeah, that highlights you financing the closing costs, which is find, particularly in this rate environment.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BackToSchoolDad »

presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:19 pm However, given that you have a pretty low balance, I'm not sure if another refi would be feasible, so if you plan to stay for at least 10 years, then Refi 2 might be the way to go.
Could you expand on this a bit? Why wouldn't it be feasible? Because it's not worth the bank's trouble on a small balance?

I know the bigger online lenders don't give good rates on smaller mortgages, but what about credit unions and local banks?
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Post by drk »

BackToSchoolDad wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:43 pm I hadn't considered rolling in the costs in as I don't like the idea of that in general, but it still leads to less overall interest and a reduced payment.

It sounds like there's no wrong answer really, which is good to know. I'll have to muck around in refi calculators and ponder this some more. Thanks for the help!
The Mortgage Professor has a refi calculator that lets you see the difference between rolling in costs and not: https://www.mtgprofessor.com/calculator ... tor3a.html
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Post by presto987 »

BackToSchoolDad wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:48 pm
presto987 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:19 pm However, given that you have a pretty low balance, I'm not sure if another refi would be feasible, so if you plan to stay for at least 10 years, then Refi 2 might be the way to go.
Could you expand on this a bit? Why wouldn't it be feasible? Because it's not worth the bank's trouble on a small balance?

I know the bigger online lenders don't give good rates on smaller mortgages, but what about credit unions and local banks?
I was thinking this because: (1) while you might get a solid deal from a local bank/CU, most other lenders would not be interested, which limits your options, and (2) there are some fixed costs involved in a refi, and the smaller your balance, the larger these are in percentage terms.

But it seems like you've found a lender who will do a refi without the costs being prohibitive, so my hunch could be wrong.
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Post by corpgator »

jaxxmjd wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:42 am Just closed this morning on our refi. ~$310k at 2.000% VA fixed for 30 years. A+B+C-J (Credits) = $950. Originally financed the property at 4.25%, refied at 2.75% in 2012, and didn't expect it to ever drop to 2%, but managed to lock it in before the rates started creeping back up. Plan to pay it off as though it were a 15 year mortgage, but nice to have the flexibility of 30 year payments in case of an emergency. I don't anticipate any future refinances on this property.
Who did you use for your loan?

Anyone else have recommendations for VA loans?
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Post by Soares1234 »

MNPerson wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:11 am I'm locked at 2.25% for a 30-year. A+B are net $1,045 after $450 lending credits. This was done on 12/30. I separately negotiated C for $914. Quicken has a match or beat offer of $250 they sent me and they aren't beating it so that's another $250.

I wonder how much of these best rates on this board are from IPO or buyout aspirations. Like LenderFi? That guy hoping he'll get bought out by Quicken. Or Better and Loan Depot pumping volume. I wonder if they're subsidizing these deals with investor money. Where's the margin for Loan Depot or Better on the best rates quoted on this board? I mean after people pitting offers. My Loan Depot officer got approval to beat my best offer.
What is your loan amount?
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Post by Soares1234 »

skyno wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:20 pm
drk wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:11 pm
I'm usually pretty pro-tenant, but you're being extremely generous here. Assuming you signed a standard lease, it would have a provision for reasonable access when you need it. This is one of those times. Offering to pay for a cleaning service to come in is really going above and beyond your obligations.
Thanks for the response and you are correct that the lease does indeed give me this right with the proper notice, and like I said tenant has always been very easy to deal with and never pushed back about needing to enter before, but seems like Covid has changed everything and I'm in probably the most pro-tenant's rights city (San Francisco) so I want to tread carefully and keep my tenant very happy.
For me, it was pretty quick with the appraiser. They can escaped pictures and were out in under 10 minutes. They didn’t touch anything.
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Post by Soares1234 »

mervinj7 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:19 pm
skyno wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:15 pm
mervinj7 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:47 pm
Haha, are you me? I was in a similar position last April during my refinance. The bank would not waive in person appraisal since the loan was over $1M. Though my tenant didn't adamantly refuse, I reduced their rent by $300 for one month for their trouble. They were quite happy and left for the whole day. The appraiser took only 15 minutes inside the unit.
Ha! I'm pretty sure I'm not you but if I am, thank me for answering my question, and by the way I have quite a few more questions! :happy

Out of curiosity, I'm assuming that you accompanied the appraiser when they entered the rental unit?

Thanks again!
Yes, I accompanied the appraiser into the unit. As far as other responses you've been getting, here's my personal take on the matter.
1. SF is very pro-tenant. Also, rents have been dropping during Covid, so I like to keep good tenants.
2. For owner-occupied duplexes, it's very important to have good tenants since they are also your next door neighbor. It's hard for other landlords on this forum to understand this.
3. The lease does include provisions for reasonable access for just cause and advance notice. So why did I give a rent "bonus" for the appraisal? Unlike routine maintenance, repairs, and renovations, there's absolutely no benefit for the tenant when completing a refinance. As a good will "gesture" with an understanding that there is no obligation, I offered roughly three weeks worth of mortgage interest savings (between my old rate and new rate) as an incentive to the tenant. That resolves the issue quickly for me and tenant is much happier.
4. I would NOT offer a cleaning service or any other goods/services. Money is clean and easy as far as incentives go.
I feel like this sets the tenant up with pushing backs and expecting cash in return.
RationalInvestor
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:37 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by RationalInvestor »

dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:48 pm
apres_all_day wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:56 pm
dctech wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:27 pm
PSA for anyone with access to Hyatt Legal/MetLife prepaid legal from your work, I have used it for my title work/attorney in all 3 of my 2020/2021 refis and it has saved me close to $600 each time. So if you have it or can access it, it can be worth it.
Hold on, how does this work? You still need to buy title insurance, right? Do you get a separate title quote from Radian?

I have ARAG legal insurance, which is a new benefit at my job that just began on January 1. Exactly which fees are you able to remove?
For me it takes off everything except for Lender's title insurance and the binder fee. So my B+C has been right around of $1000 each time.

Normally under B there are a couple of other items depending on the lender like credit report, flood cert. etc, but that normally is =<$100 all together

I found a local law firm here that specializes in residential real estate and even have a space on their website to enter your Hyatt legal case number. At this point I've completed 6 total transactions (purchase, selling and several refi's) and I highly recommend having your own attorney going through the paperwork vs a Notary who's only job is to verify that its really you signing.
Hi dctech & Friends,
My LE from Better.com says Lender's Title Insurance is $575 and Title - Settlement fee is $550. Radian quoted $450 for each (total $900). I check with Hyatt Legal and they said escrow services are not covered by the plan. Is it possible for me to save $600 ?. If yes, can you provide guidance on how I can accomplish this ?. If possible, please share the contact information for your law firm.
Thanks for your help
elwood_
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by elwood_ »

BackToSchoolDad wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:17 pm Curious to get the opinions of the experts here. Current mortgage is 28y remaining at 4.25, 89,000 left, house appraised for 114,000. Plan on staying here for another 10 years at least.

Refi 1: 30y no closing costs at 3.25.
Refi 2: 30y $1,500 in closing costs at 2.875.

Going with no closing costs means we will invest the difference as we have remaining IRA space for 2020. It seems like the total interest differences aren't too huge, and the P&I will be only 15ish less at 2.875.

What's the best course of action here?
Your numbers are nearly identical to mine ($115k appraised, 27y $84,600 left @ 4.75%). Just curious if you have any quotes for 15y rates? My lowest so far is 15y 2.125% with "D" at $2361 from Watermark. That's with an appraisal waiver through Freddie Mac (Fannie Mae won't waive).

Which lender is offering the costs in your post?
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BrandonBogle
Posts: 3787
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

RationalInvestor wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:55 am Hi dctech & Friends,
My LE from Better.com says Lender's Title Insurance is $575 and Title - Settlement fee is $550. Radian quoted $450 for each (total $900). I check with Hyatt Legal and they said escrow services are not covered by the plan. Is it possible for me to save $600 ?. If yes, can you provide guidance on how I can accomplish this ?. If possible, please share the contact information for your law firm.
Thanks for your help
Email the Radian quote to your processor, asking if Better’s preferred agent will match it. If not, ask to use Radian instead.
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