Refinance Mega Thread

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:45 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:43 pm
Miamilaw35 wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:29 pm If my loan is 14 months old, and I'm looking to refinance, anybody know if I can retain my current title insurance so I don't have to pay the extra money for it to be reissued ?
"If my loan is 1 day old, and I'm looking to refinance, can I retain my current title insurance?" - No

However, depending on state and/or provider, there may be a reissue discount on getting new title insurance, but you will still be buying new title insurance.
Are you talking about the lender's title insurance or the owner's title insurance? I think there is a difference.
True, but hopefully one doesn’t mistake and buy another owner’s policy during a refi. It is likely just buying whatever the lender lists as “title insurance”, which would be a lender policy.

But still a good distinction to make. Thank you.
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truenyer
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Post by truenyer »

BarDownHockey wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:50 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:48 pm Who is the other online lender?
Loan Depot
Loan Depot has been very good to me (for the 4 months I held a refi with them - just funded a new refi not with them today).

I don't think Chase is sending you red flags, but more so that they are a huge bank and are therefore super slow to make any changes. Either will be eventually fine, but go with whichever is the better final deal you can get.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:50 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:45 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:43 pm
Miamilaw35 wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:29 pm If my loan is 14 months old, and I'm looking to refinance, anybody know if I can retain my current title insurance so I don't have to pay the extra money for it to be reissued ?
"If my loan is 1 day old, and I'm looking to refinance, can I retain my current title insurance?" - No

However, depending on state and/or provider, there may be a reissue discount on getting new title insurance, but you will still be buying new title insurance.
Are you talking about the lender's title insurance or the owner's title insurance? I think there is a difference.
True, but hopefully one doesn’t mistake and buy another owner’s policy during a refi. It is likely just buying whatever the lender lists as “title insurance”, which would be a lender policy.

But still a good distinction to make. Thank you.
Just to clarify for Miamilaw35's sake, if you have an owner's title insurance policy, it should still be fine. The title insurance listed on the closing costs is for the benefit of the lender, and a new one needs to be purchased unless you can get your old one reissued (dependent on the state/provider). Hope this helps.
BarDownHockey
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BarDownHockey »

truenyer wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:52 pm
BarDownHockey wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:50 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:48 pm Who is the other online lender?
Loan Depot
Loan Depot has been very good to me (for the 4 months I held a refi with them - just funded a new refi not with them today).

I don't think Chase is sending you red flags, but more so that they are a huge bank and are therefore super slow to make any changes. Either will be eventually fine, but go with whichever is the better final deal you can get.
Last edited by BarDownHockey on Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

BarDownHockey wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:59 pm
truenyer wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:52 pm
BarDownHockey wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:50 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:48 pm Who is the other online lender?
Loan Depot
Loan Depot has been very good to me (for the 4 months I held a refi with them - just funded a new refi not with them today).

I don't think Chase is sending you red flags, but more so that they are a huge bank and are therefore super slow to make any changes. Either will be eventually fine, but go with whichever is the better final deal you can get.
Thanks! Chase has the better offer in theory (it matches Loan Depot’s rate and offers a lender credit that’s $1k higher). I just can’t get a LE from them for the right loan amount and it’s been just over two weeks (despite having fully applied, paid the good faith deposit and provided all paperwork they asked for). I was waiting to withdraw from Loan Depot until I have Chase’s LE with the right amount so I don’t shoot myself in the foot if I end up getting some story about Chase actually not being able to match.
So are you not locked with Chase? Rates seem to just be going up so is this impacting your ability to lock a rate? That might make the situation worse.
BarDownHockey
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BarDownHockey »

truenyer wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:20 am
BarDownHockey wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:59 pm
truenyer wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:52 pm
BarDownHockey wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:50 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:48 pm Who is the other online lender?
Loan Depot
Loan Depot has been very good to me (for the 4 months I held a refi with them - just funded a new refi not with them today).

I don't think Chase is sending you red flags, but more so that they are a huge bank and are therefore super slow to make any changes. Either will be eventually fine, but go with whichever is the better final deal you can get.
Thanks! Chase has the better offer in theory (it matches Loan Depot’s rate and offers a lender credit that’s $1k higher). I just can’t get a LE from them for the right loan amount and it’s been just over two weeks (despite having fully applied, paid the good faith deposit and provided all paperwork they asked for). I was waiting to withdraw from Loan Depot until I have Chase’s LE with the right amount so I don’t shoot myself in the foot if I end up getting some story about Chase actually not being able to match.
So are you not locked with Chase? Rates seem to just be going up so is this impacting your ability to lock a rate? That might make the situation worse.
Last edited by BarDownHockey on Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
masonary
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by masonary »

$530K loan refinance in CA. Got a 2.375% rate on a 30 yr fixed loan from Interactive Mortgages. The previous rate was 3.5%. Lender provided credits for almost all the fees. I am only liable to pay for the HOA Certification handling fee.
clippersfan79
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by clippersfan79 »

masonary wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:14 am $530K loan refinance in CA. Got a 2.375% rate on a 30 yr fixed loan from Interactive Mortgages. The previous rate was 3.5%. Lender provided credits for almost all the fees. I am only liable to pay for the HOA Certification handling fee.
Did you just lock this rate? Their website shows 2.625%.
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

This may have been lost above, so sorry for the partial repost. I'm wondering if I am missing something obvious or should ask more questions about specific parts. This is to refi a 3.99 loan with $330,000 outstanding and a $450k valuation in Beaverton, OR.

NASB quoted me late last evening a 2.75 with $1600 lender credit on a 30-year fixed and also a 2.875 with no closing costs. The interesting thing about the 2.750 is that between 1 PST and 7 PST, that lender credit increased from $850 to over $1600. We're also going to pursue a Resissue Discount on the Titling work since my original loan closed within the last 36 months. So maybe some money to be saved there.

The loan summaries for each are:

2.750 - Image

2.875 - Image
Last edited by JMak97008 on Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
drk
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Post by drk »

tilo_sea wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:26 pm Locked in with better.com Option 3 (2.25% with $2300 credits). Did I make the right choice?

Checked with bunch of other lenders, most of them were offering in the range of 2.125 to 2.25 with no credits. Had missed the bus in Jan 1st week when better.com was offering 2% w/o points.
I think it's hard to make a wrong choice when a lender is going to pay you $1200 to reduce your interest rate by a full point. If you're comfortable with the monthly payment on the 15-year, you might as well send it.
chet96
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by chet96 »

Hey folks:

A few questions here - hopefully I am not jacking the thread.

I received an updated LE from Loan Depot during the application process?

It looks like they want to charge a $300 fee due to the fact that they waived the appraisal. Does this make any sense? I'm guessing that it was put on by the title company.

Also - at what point can I request that they reduce the title costs by reissuing the title insurance policy?

Thanks all - great info here.
masonary
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by masonary »

clippersfan79 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:40 pm
masonary wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:14 am $530K loan refinance in CA. Got a 2.375% rate on a 30 yr fixed loan from Interactive Mortgages. The previous rate was 3.5%. Lender provided credits for almost all the fees. I am only liable to pay for the HOA Certification handling fee.
Did you just lock this rate? Their website shows 2.625%.
Yes, This was in second week of December. Sorry, I should have mentioned it.
presto987
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Post by presto987 »

JMak97008 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:33 pm This may have been lost above, so sorry for the partial repost. I'm wondering if I am missing something obvious or should ask more questions about specific parts. This is to refi a 3.99 loan with $330,000 outstanding and a $450k valuation in Beaverton, OR.

NASB quoted me late last evening a 2.75 with $1600 lender credit on a 30-year fixed and also a 2.875 with no closing costs. The interesting thing about the 2.750 is that between 1 PST and 7 PST, that lender credit increased from $850 to over $1600. We're also going to pursue a Resissue Discount on the Titling work since my original loan closed within the last 36 months. So maybe some money to be saved there.
Did you get a quote from LenderFi? That is probably the best starting point for knowing what is a good deal.

If you have Better beat your best offer, there would be an opportunity to improve the offer when your appraisal is waived and you switch to Radian for title.
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

presto987 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:42 pm
JMak97008 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:33 pm This may have been lost above, so sorry for the partial repost. I'm wondering if I am missing something obvious or should ask more questions about specific parts. This is to refi a 3.99 loan with $330,000 outstanding and a $450k valuation in Beaverton, OR.

NASB quoted me late last evening a 2.75 with $1600 lender credit on a 30-year fixed and also a 2.875 with no closing costs. The interesting thing about the 2.750 is that between 1 PST and 7 PST, that lender credit increased from $850 to over $1600. We're also going to pursue a Resissue Discount on the Titling work since my original loan closed within the last 36 months. So maybe some money to be saved there.
Did you get a quote from LenderFi? That is probably the best starting point for knowing what is a good deal.

If you have Better beat your best offer, there would be an opportunity to improve the offer when your appraisal is waived and you switch to Radian for title.
Thanks. I did use LenderFi. Got a 2.750 from them, but when I reached out to the assigned broker I got a text back indicating he wasn't available and wouldn't be able to contact me until 2 days after I submitted an online application. I just moved on.

Im still in touch with Better, though, and as soon as I have the LE from NASB in hand, for the 2.750, 0 points, and $1700 lender credit, I'll send it to them for a match. Thanks for the Radian suggestion. Are they available in all states?
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

JMak97008 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:15 pm
presto987 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:42 pm
JMak97008 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:33 pm This may have been lost above, so sorry for the partial repost. I'm wondering if I am missing something obvious or should ask more questions about specific parts. This is to refi a 3.99 loan with $330,000 outstanding and a $450k valuation in Beaverton, OR.

NASB quoted me late last evening a 2.75 with $1600 lender credit on a 30-year fixed and also a 2.875 with no closing costs. The interesting thing about the 2.750 is that between 1 PST and 7 PST, that lender credit increased from $850 to over $1600. We're also going to pursue a Resissue Discount on the Titling work since my original loan closed within the last 36 months. So maybe some money to be saved there.
Did you get a quote from LenderFi? That is probably the best starting point for knowing what is a good deal.

If you have Better beat your best offer, there would be an opportunity to improve the offer when your appraisal is waived and you switch to Radian for title.
Thanks. I did use LenderFi. Got a 2.750 from them, but when I reached out to the assigned broker I got a text back indicating he wasn't available and wouldn't be able to contact me until 2 days after I submitted an online application. I just moved on.

Im still in touch with Better, though, and as soon as I have the LE from NASB in hand, for the 2.750, 0 points, and $1700 lender credit, I'll send it to them for a match. Thanks for the Radian suggestion. Are they available in all states?
When you say you got 2.75% from LenderFi, is that what you saw on the website when you applied? The reason I ask is that once you get in touch with a loan officer, they are usually able to improve the website pricing by 0.125% if not 0.25%. That would be worth waiting 2 days for.

Just to expand on what I said about Better, they usually look to beat other offers by $100. But when they do the price matching, they assume that they will be charging you for an appraisal. Assuming that appraisal subsequently gets waived, then you save the appraisal fee ($550 in my case). Then if Radian is available (I'm not sure what states they're in), you save the difference in cost between them and Better's title company ($200 in my case). So even though Better beat the original offer by $100, I ultimately wound up $850 ahead.

LoanDepot is another lender that is good about beating other offers. If you want to avoid a lot of applications and back-and-forth, the simplest formula has been to get a LenderFi quote and have Better beat it. But if you're willing to go one extra step, you could insert LoanDepot in the mix.
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

presto987 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:30 pm
JMak97008 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:15 pm
presto987 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:42 pm
JMak97008 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:33 pm This may have been lost above, so sorry for the partial repost. I'm wondering if I am missing something obvious or should ask more questions about specific parts. This is to refi a 3.99 loan with $330,000 outstanding and a $450k valuation in Beaverton, OR.

NASB quoted me late last evening a 2.75 with $1600 lender credit on a 30-year fixed and also a 2.875 with no closing costs. The interesting thing about the 2.750 is that between 1 PST and 7 PST, that lender credit increased from $850 to over $1600. We're also going to pursue a Resissue Discount on the Titling work since my original loan closed within the last 36 months. So maybe some money to be saved there.
Did you get a quote from LenderFi? That is probably the best starting point for knowing what is a good deal.

If you have Better beat your best offer, there would be an opportunity to improve the offer when your appraisal is waived and you switch to Radian for title.
Thanks. I did use LenderFi. Got a 2.750 from them, but when I reached out to the assigned broker I got a text back indicating he wasn't available and wouldn't be able to contact me until 2 days after I submitted an online application. I just moved on.

Im still in touch with Better, though, and as soon as I have the LE from NASB in hand, for the 2.750, 0 points, and $1700 lender credit, I'll send it to them for a match. Thanks for the Radian suggestion. Are they available in all states?
When you say you got 2.75% from LenderFi, is that what you saw on the website when you applied? The reason I ask is that once you get in touch with a loan officer, they are usually able to improve the website pricing by 0.125% if not 0.25%. That would be worth waiting 2 days for.

Just to expand on what I said about Better, they usually look to beat other offers by $100. But when they do the price matching, they assume that they will be charging you for an appraisal. Assuming that appraisal subsequently gets waived, then you save the appraisal fee ($550 in my case). Then if Radian is available (I'm not sure what states they're in), you save the difference in cost between them and Better's title company ($200 in my case). So even though Better beat the original offer by $100, I ultimately wound up $850 ahead.

LoanDepot is another lender that is good about beating other offers. If you want to avoid a lot of applications and back-and-forth, the simplest formula has been to get a LenderFi quote and have Better beat it. But if you're willing to go one extra step, you could insert LoanDepot in the mix.
Thanks, again.

Yeah, I tried calling the loan officer and he replied with a text that there's a 2-day rate after I apply. Other than a standard email I heard nothing else. So I moved on with people I could talk to. Because this is my first refi and I see the comments here over the past 2 weeks about rates trickling upward that I wasn't willing to wait two days. Now that I am further along in the process and have a rate locked at both Better and NASB (2.750), I'll hopefully hear back from LenderFi tomorrow.

The 2.750 is what I saw at LenderFi's site.

I have an appraisal waiver already via Better, NASB, and my local broker, so LenderFi should get it, too.
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BrandonBogle
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Post by BrandonBogle »

presto987 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:30 pm [Then if Radian is available (I'm not sure what states they're in), you save the difference in cost between them and Better's title company ($200 in my case). So even though Better beat the original offer by $100, I ultimately wound up $850 ahead.
In my case, I had a preferred local settlement agent $850 + title policy. That was far cheaper than others I’ve found, until meeting Radian and Better. On my current refi, Radian’s quote is $450 + title policy. Mind you, the common cost here is $2,000 + title, though LenderFi, Loan Depot, Provident Funding, and even Better (via Better Settlement Services) have cheaper pricing for title/settlement. At $450, I guess they are banking on automation and volume for profit.
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:47 pm
presto987 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:30 pm [Then if Radian is available (I'm not sure what states they're in), you save the difference in cost between them and Better's title company ($200 in my case). So even though Better beat the original offer by $100, I ultimately wound up $850 ahead.
In my case, I had a preferred local settlement agent $850 + title policy. That was far cheaper than others I’ve found, until meeting Radian and Better. On my current refi, Radian’s quote is $450 + title policy. Mind you, the common cost here is $2,000 + title, though LenderFi, Loan Depot, Provident Funding, and even Better (via Better Settlement Services) have cheaper pricing for title/settlement. At $450, I guess they are banking on automation and volume for profit.
Yeah, everyone I talked to came back with $2k+, except mututal of omaha which was $1600.
nickbirren
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Post by nickbirren »

How do I decide between 2 options: loan is $740K, 30 year fixed. Closing costs which are rolled up into the loan will be $4K lower if I take an increase of 1/8 percent.
If I get it right the break-even point (total payments + remaining balance) happens after 4.5 years.
What are the pros / cons?
RefiMoneyMoves
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by RefiMoneyMoves »

Stay vigilant with your Closing Disclosures, folks. Refi company bumped up my appraisal fee $150 and moved numbers around so that it looked like there was only a $5 change, but they actually rolled that fee into the loan. I called and complained and got additional lender credit to cover it.
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

UPDATE: My local broker came back with 2.750 that will cost $142.80 with a 22-day closing window. He indicated that $0 cost would have been a 2.758 rate. Im not sure I understand all of that, but ok.

He asked and I told him to move forward to lock in the rate and submit for underwriting.

Now, I have also been working with NASB, Better, and LenderFi, including having provided documents and, with Better and NASB locking that 2.750 rate with them.

Im not sure what to do now. The difference between my local broker, Better, NASB is less than $1k. I want tog o with my local broker because he's been holding ym hand through this since mid-2020 (delayed due to a divorce) and he got me back into this last week.
SEAworld9
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Post by SEAworld9 »

nickbirren wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:18 pm How do I decide between 2 options: loan is $740K, 30 year fixed. Closing costs which are rolled up into the loan will be $4K lower if I take an increase of 1/8 percent.
If I get it right the break-even point (total payments + remaining balance) happens after 4.5 years.
What are the pros / cons?
Doing quick math it looks like the difference in monthly payment for a 30-year, $740k loan with a 1/8 rate difference is $49/month. $4k difference divided by $49/month means in simple math (no opp cost, compounding, inflation, etc), it’s 81.63 months to break even, so ~6.8 years.

Only you can really make the call based on how long you intend to stay and your payoff speed. If it were me I’d take the credit.
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BrandonBogle
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Post by BrandonBogle »

JMak97008 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:00 pm UPDATE: My local broker came back with 2.750 that will cost $142.80 with a 22-day closing window. He indicated that $0 cost would have been a 2.758 rate. Im not sure I understand all of that, but ok.

He asked and I told him to move forward to lock in the rate and submit for underwriting.

Now, I have also been working with NASB, Better, and LenderFi, including having provided documents and, with Better and NASB locking that 2.750 rate with them.

Im not sure what to do now. The difference between my local broker, Better, NASB is less than $1k. I want tog o with my local broker because he's been holding ym hand through this since mid-2020 (delayed due to a divorce) and he got me back into this last week.
Based on what you have posted so far in this thread, I am unsure if your broker is simply quoting you the points or maybe Section A vs. A + B + C + E - lender credits in J. When you get a loan estimate from him and from NASB, be sure to do that calculation to make sure your are properly comparing the offers.
nickbirren
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Post by nickbirren »

SEAworld9 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:05 pm
nickbirren wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:18 pm How do I decide between 2 options: loan is $740K, 30 year fixed. Closing costs which are rolled up into the loan will be $4K lower if I take an increase of 1/8 percent.
If I get it right the break-even point (total payments + remaining balance) happens after 4.5 years.
What are the pros / cons?
Doing quick math it looks like the difference in monthly payment for a 30-year, $740k loan with a 1/8 rate difference is $49/month. $4k difference divided by $49/month means in simple math (no opp cost, compounding, inflation, etc), it’s 81.63 months to break even, so ~6.8 years.

Only you can really make the call based on how long you intend to stay and your payoff speed. If it were me I’d take the credit.
Actually if I get it right, with the lower rate, I'm paying more in each payment toward the principal. So after 6.8 years the payments difference will offset the $4k cost but the loan balance will be lower. So the break-even point actually happens sooner at around 4.5 years. Does this make sense or am I getting it wrong?
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BrandonBogle
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Post by BrandonBogle »

nickbirren wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:16 pm Actually if I get it right, with the lower rate, I'm paying more in each payment toward the principal. So after 6.8 years the payments difference will offset the $4k cost but the loan balance will be lower. So the break-even point actually happens sooner at around 4.5 years. Does this make sense or am I getting it wrong?
I didn’t check your math, but your statement is correct. Your monthly savings of interest is greater than the payment difference. So you may save $53/mo in payment, but you are starting with saving $60/mo in interest.
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Post by wtarbing »

mgbt wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:13 am I posted this as a new post before noticing this mega thread.

I'm refinancing $1.1m 3.49% 30 year $5015 per month. I have two loan pricings. Which one would you go for?

2.75%, 0 pts, $5500 lender credits
$3597 closing cost including $730 appraisal fee
$730 out of pocket cost for appraisal (appraisal not covered by lender credits)
$2867 ($3597 - $730) of $5500 lender credit is applied to closing cost
$2633 of $5500 lender credit is applied to reduce principle
$4494 per month

2.625%, 0 pts, $0 lender credits
$3597 closing cost including $810 appraisal fee
$4424 per month

2.625 is $70 per month less but costs $4770 ($5500 - $730) more compared to 2.75. About 5.7 years to break even.
I think it depends on your view of opportunity cost.
If you believe you can get a better return elsewhere, take the credit.
If you like the idea of "reducing your nut" in otherwords your monthly fixed costs, then go with the lower rate.
really comes down to your investing mindset long term vs short term.
JMak97008
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Post by JMak97008 »

Update - Comparing Offers to Refinance current $330,920 Loan.

Summary: I think I want to go with NASB, but I will show Better the NASB to see if they can match. Waiting for LenderFi
  • My Local Broker gets me to 2.750, but $9000 closing costs that includes $1000 underwriting fee and paying $142 for the rate.
  • Better is underestimating Titling; underestimating prop tax for escrow, and overestimating homeowners ins for escrow. Better also has me paying closing out of pocket, so their overall loan amount will go up when I roll closing into the loan. Better's estimated total monthly payment (lowest of the three) will then go up as well.
  • NASB has the most accurate escrow amount, best Services You Can Shop For cost (Section C) before considering a titling Reissue Discount, and I really like the loan officer I am dealing with.
Rate 2.750

Points-Lender Fee-Underwriting:
  • Local Broker (LB) - 0.042% or $142.80 and $1,055 underwriting fee)
    Better - $0
    NASB - $250 (this is the capped Lender Fee amount when working through Costco)
Loan Amount:
  • LB - $340,000
    Better - $330,920
    NASB - $336,300
Estimate Total Monthly Payment:
  • LB - $2000
    Better - $1914
    NASB - $1951
Closing Cost Details (A+B+C)
  • LB - $3,089
    Better - $1,461 (likely comes down with Reissue Discount, but their "B" is missing several items that my local broker includes)
    NASB - $2506 (though, again, likely comes down with Reissue Discount)
Escrow Funding:
  • LB - $4191 (13 months and using an inflated homeowner's ins number and using accurate prop tax from County)
    Better - $3562 (10 months and using an inflated homeowner's ins number and using an inaccurate prop tax from County - by$50/month)
    NASB - $4443 (13 months and uses accurate homeowner's ins and accurate County prop tax number)
Closing Costs (D+I, including Lender Credit)
  • LB - $9235 (No lender credit)
    Better - $6433 ($420 lender credit)
    NASB - $5804 ($1706 lender credit)
Cash to Close from Borrower:
  • LB - $155
    Better - $6433 (same as D+I, that doesnt look right)
    NASB - $424
Estimated Closing Costs Financed:
  • LB - $9080
    Better - $0
    NASB - $5380
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

JMak97008 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:47 am Update - Comparing Offers to Refinance current $330,920 Loan.

Summary: I think I want to go with NASB, but I will show Better the NASB to see if they can match. Waiting for LenderFi
  • My Local Broker gets me to 2.750, but $9000 closing costs that includes $1000 underwriting fee and paying $142 for the rate.
  • Better is underestimating Titling; underestimating prop tax for escrow, and overestimating homeowners ins for escrow. Better also has me paying closing out of pocket, so their overall loan amount will go up when I roll closing into the loan. Better's estimated total monthly payment (lowest of the three) will then go up as well.
  • NASB has the most accurate escrow amount, best Services You Can Shop For cost (Section C) before considering a titling Reissue Discount, and I really like the loan officer I am dealing with.
My take is that you're overcomplicating this somewhat. You should compare your offers based on Sections A+B+C minus lender credit. Prepaids and escrow will be corrected by the title company, and the loan amount can be adjusted. Even Section C can be normalized across lenders since you can choose your own title company.

Speaking of title companies, if you haven't already done so, I would reach out to Radian to request a title quote for Better. As Brandon noted recently, their fees can be significantly lower than others'. You may find that their standard title insurance cost for refis is actually lower than a reissue rate (this probably varies by state, but it seemed to be the case for me in CA).
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

presto987 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:06 am
JMak97008 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:47 am Update - Comparing Offers to Refinance current $330,920 Loan.

Summary: I think I want to go with NASB, but I will show Better the NASB to see if they can match. Waiting for LenderFi
  • My Local Broker gets me to 2.750, but $9000 closing costs that includes $1000 underwriting fee and paying $142 for the rate.
  • Better is underestimating Titling; underestimating prop tax for escrow, and overestimating homeowners ins for escrow. Better also has me paying closing out of pocket, so their overall loan amount will go up when I roll closing into the loan. Better's estimated total monthly payment (lowest of the three) will then go up as well.
  • NASB has the most accurate escrow amount, best Services You Can Shop For cost (Section C) before considering a titling Reissue Discount, and I really like the loan officer I am dealing with.
My take is that you're overcomplicating this somewhat. You should compare your offers based on Sections A+B+C minus lender credit. Prepaids and escrow will be corrected by the title company, and the loan amount can be adjusted. Even Section C can be normalized across lenders since you can choose your own title company.

Speaking of title companies, if you haven't already done so, I would reach out to Radian to request a title quote for Better. As Brandon noted recently, their fees can be significantly lower than others'. You may find that their standard title insurance cost for refis is actually lower than a reissue rate (this probably varies by state, but it seemed to be the case for me in CA).
Overcomplicating? You don't say...thats what I do, though, lol.

Regarding Radian...I contacted them today and they indicated that they are not licensed in OR and that they would use a third party located here. I contacted the firm they typically use here and they quoted me a price in line with my local broker. I'll call several more tomorrow to see what I can get.

Appreciate the advice on comparing across A+B+C - Lender Credit.

Regarding the title company correcting prepaids and escrow, I have to get all three lenders to the point in the process where they're working with the titling company? I think this is where I am getting confused because Im not how far I can go with each lender without locking myself into a deal that I can't back out of.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

JMak97008 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:17 am
presto987 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:06 am
JMak97008 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:47 am Update - Comparing Offers to Refinance current $330,920 Loan.

Summary: I think I want to go with NASB, but I will show Better the NASB to see if they can match. Waiting for LenderFi
  • My Local Broker gets me to 2.750, but $9000 closing costs that includes $1000 underwriting fee and paying $142 for the rate.
  • Better is underestimating Titling; underestimating prop tax for escrow, and overestimating homeowners ins for escrow. Better also has me paying closing out of pocket, so their overall loan amount will go up when I roll closing into the loan. Better's estimated total monthly payment (lowest of the three) will then go up as well.
  • NASB has the most accurate escrow amount, best Services You Can Shop For cost (Section C) before considering a titling Reissue Discount, and I really like the loan officer I am dealing with.
My take is that you're overcomplicating this somewhat. You should compare your offers based on Sections A+B+C minus lender credit. Prepaids and escrow will be corrected by the title company, and the loan amount can be adjusted. Even Section C can be normalized across lenders since you can choose your own title company.

Speaking of title companies, if you haven't already done so, I would reach out to Radian to request a title quote for Better. As Brandon noted recently, their fees can be significantly lower than others'. You may find that their standard title insurance cost for refis is actually lower than a reissue rate (this probably varies by state, but it seemed to be the case for me in CA).
Overcomplicating? You don't say...thats what I do, though, lol.

Regarding Radian...I contacted them today and they indicated that they are not licensed in OR and that they would use a third party located here. I contacted the firm they typically use here and they quoted me a price in line with my local broker. I'll call several more tomorrow to see what I can get.

Appreciate the advice on comparing across A+B+C - Lender Credit.

Regarding the title company correcting prepaids and escrow, I have to get all three lenders to the point in the process where they're working with the titling company? I think this is where I am getting confused because Im not how far I can go with each lender without locking myself into a deal that I can't back out of.
You can assume the prepaids and escrow will end up identical since they are based on your current loan and taxes/insurance, so do not use those numbers in your analysis.
techrover
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by techrover »

Thanks to the posts in this thread, I decided to take a chance at refi. I am self employed(last 4 years) with non-regular W2 paychecks - so I was not very sure which lender will be accommodating self-employed individuals. Started with LenderFi last week of December, process went smooth - and closed on Jan 20, 2021. Entire process was done online while I was away from home...it was smooth, fast and had no surprises except for escrow calculations on final loan disclosure.
295K loan in CA Bay Area for SFH - 2.5% 30Yr with no closing cost(lender credits covered all costs). Current loan is 3.625%.
I did put in the estimated appraisal below 1M(though actual comps is higher in area) in original application to see if they will waive appraisal - and they did waive it.
Overall very satisfied with LenderFi compared to my previous refi experiences.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

JMak97008 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:17 am Regarding the title company correcting prepaids and escrow, I have to get all three lenders to the point in the process where they're working with the titling company? I think this is where I am getting confused because Im not how far I can go with each lender without locking myself into a deal that I can't back out of.
Just ignore sections E and F of the loan estimate. Those will all be virtually identical as whichever lender gets close to closing. The estimates up front will undoubtedly be revised.

Better doesn’t charge junk fees, so even though they have less items than your broker for title, they won’t be adding things there.

You can back out of the deal even after closing, before the day of funding (closing + 3 days later). So even after you signed the closing docs, you can cancel the next day. The only penalty would be any appraisal you’ve paid for (if one was done) and any app or commitment fees, which doesn’t seem to be listed in what you shared and thus, none of the three are charging.

Also keep in mind that Better’s lender credits are directly tied to the loan amount. So when you raise the loan amount to roll in your closing costs, the lender credits will go up. I’m closing on a Better refi in 8 hours. Last week they increased my loan amount by $800, which increased my lender credits $150. The size of the change will vary, but it will change as the loan amount changes.
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BrandonBogle
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Post by BrandonBogle »

For those keeping track of Radian and Better, my current refi with Better (4th on the same property since May 2020) hit a glitch. I kept reminding Radian about the reissue discount, but it never got applied.

Finally someone at Radian was able to explain that Better’s contract with Radian (for NC) doesn’t include a reissue rate provision, even though Radian’s filing with the NC Dept. of Insurance includes it on page 4, section PR-5.

I sent Better the supporting documentation and they increased my lender credits to cover the difference. Thus final loan #s are:

15-year, $140k refi, no escrow, waived appraisal, B + C + E = $825 plus points / minus credits below

My last rate table has:
1.75% @ $2,770 in points
1.875% @ $1,820 in points
2.00% @ $900 in points
2.125% @ $100 in points
2.25% @ $875 in credits
2.375% @ $1,450 in credits
2.5% @ $2,000 in credits
2.625 @ $2,600 in credits
2.75% @ $3,050 in credits
2.875% @ $3,500 in credits
3.00% @ $3,945 in credits

* I had Better compete against other offers theee times. The first with the loan officer and the other two with the processor. My rate tables improved for all rates with each round.
anon1212
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon1212 »

Just a data point for those looking for a Jumbo loan refinance

Loan Amount: 1.25 mill\ion
LTV ratio: 70%

Better.com offered 2.75 percent with 0.102 points for a 30 year fixed rate
psavage1234
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by psavage1234 »

Hi there,

Just found this thread and have learned a ton from reading through it. I am currently in the process of refinancing my home in CA through a lender from Costco. I already locked in the rate on a 30yr fixed at 2.75% with no points and no credit. I just signed the initial disclosures but after reading through this thread and checking rates with other lenders I'm seeing I can get a 2.625% with a lender credit of $270 through LenderFi and that is just the initial rate on their website.

Is it reasonable to continue to get other estimates from places like LenderFi and better and pull out of the current refi that I already started if I find a much better deal? I'm assuming yes but I just want to make sure that isn't frowned upon.

Thanks
2quiker
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 2quiker »

Can one back out once title is pulled? If on does pull out of the signing is the borrower on the hook for the tilting fees?
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:44 am
JMak97008 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:17 am Regarding the title company correcting prepaids and escrow, I have to get all three lenders to the point in the process where they're working with the titling company? I think this is where I am getting confused because Im not how far I can go with each lender without locking myself into a deal that I can't back out of.
Just ignore sections E and F of the loan estimate. Those will all be virtually identical as whichever lender gets close to closing. The estimates up front will undoubtedly be revised.

Better doesn’t charge junk fees, so even though they have less items than your broker for title, they won’t be adding things there.

You can back out of the deal even after closing, before the day of funding (closing + 3 days later). So even after you signed the closing docs, you can cancel the next day. The only penalty would be any appraisal you’ve paid for (if one was done) and any app or commitment fees, which doesn’t seem to be listed in what you shared and thus, none of the three are charging.

Also keep in mind that Better’s lender credits are directly tied to the loan amount. So when you raise the loan amount to roll in your closing costs, the lender credits will go up. I’m closing on a Better refi in 8 hours. Last week they increased my loan amount by $800, which increased my lender credits $150. The size of the change will vary, but it will change as the loan amount changes.
Thanks, this is all really, really, helpful.

It seems from what Ive posted then that my local broker is likely to be the most expensive to the loan because he's charging that $1k underwriting and $142 for the 2.750 whereas Better is charging nothing for the rate and NASB is charging $275 lender fee. So now we're dinking around with titling costs as the next main cost driver.

My local broker has already initiated the title work through Fidelity National (with a reissue discount) so Im not going to change that. With Better and NASB, I'll try to use the same title company.
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

Now I am in a pickle...I have both my local broker and NASB folks in underwriting with my local broker having initiated title work (they've already contacted me).

However, LenderFi finally got back to me and offer 2.650 no-cost loan, in other words, no points and lender credits to completely cover A+B+C.

I dont know how to tell me local broker that Ive locked with LenderFi or how to engage with Better to price match (or even if I should).

Update:
Taking a flyer, I sent Better.com a brief email indicating I had a 2.650 no cost offer and asked if they can match or improve that. Not sure if that's how Im supposed to request a price match, but, we'll see what happens!

Update 2:
When I "lock" with a lender, I know Im not at a point of no return, however, am I really screwing people over by locking with multiple lenders?

Update 3:
I emailed both my local broker and NASB to indicate that I have a new offer and provided the loan estimate to them.

Im starting to get anxious about having locked in a rate with both and each having initiated title services and that I may be on the hook to pay each for those services.
Last edited by JMak97008 on Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2quiker
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 2quiker »

JMak97008 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:01 pm Now I am in a pickle...I have both my local broker and NASB folks in underwriting with my local broker having initiated title work (they've already contacted me).

However, LenderFi finally got back to me and offer 2.650 no-cost loan, in other words, no points and lender credits to completely cover A+B+C.

I dont know how to tell me local broker that Ive locked with LenderFi or how to engage with Better to price match (or even if I should).

Update:
Taking a flyer, I sent Better.com a brief email indicating I had a 2.650 no cost offer and asked if they can match or improve that. Not sure if that's how Im supposed to request a price match, but, we'll see what happens!

Update 2:
When I "lock" with a lender, I know Im not at a point of no return, however, am I really screwing people over by locking with multiple lenders?
Ya I am wondering if a company ordered title without you saying 'yes ' order title if your on the hook for it?
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

2quiker wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:32 pm Ya I am wondering if a company ordered title without you saying 'yes ' order title if your on the hook for it?
I don't think so unless you make a deposit that is non-refundable. We always have the 3-day rescission period right at closing, so that suggests that we're not financially on the hook for any fees they incur should we choose not to utilize that lender. Im hoping someone else will chime in on this...
psavage1234
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by psavage1234 »

JMak97008 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:01 pm Now I am in a pickle...I have both my local broker and NASB folks in underwriting with my local broker having initiated title work (they've already contacted me).

However, LenderFi finally got back to me and offer 2.650 no-cost loan, in other words, no points and lender credits to completely cover A+B+C.

I dont know how to tell me local broker that Ive locked with LenderFi or how to engage with Better to price match (or even if I should).
I just got that same quote from LenderFi from speaking with the loan officer on the phone but I haven't gotten any written LE from them yet. Does anyone know when they actually send that out?
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

psavage1234 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:42 pm
JMak97008 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:01 pm Now I am in a pickle...I have both my local broker and NASB folks in underwriting with my local broker having initiated title work (they've already contacted me).

However, LenderFi finally got back to me and offer 2.650 no-cost loan, in other words, no points and lender credits to completely cover A+B+C.

I dont know how to tell me local broker that Ive locked with LenderFi or how to engage with Better to price match (or even if I should).
I just got that same quote from LenderFi from speaking with the loan officer on the phone but I haven't gotten any written LE from them yet. Does anyone know when they actually send that out?
I didn't get it via email...I did get a copy by logging into LenderFi while on the phone with them and downloading all of the disclosures (it comes in a zip file and the LE is one of the docs).
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

My local broker has sent his offer to underwriting and Im sitting here wringing my hands about whether I am too far down the process to back out and avoid paying any fees.

My local broker hasn't replied to my email where I indicated that I received a no-cost 2.650 offer.
presto987
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Post by presto987 »

JMak97008 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:46 pm My local broker has sent his offer to underwriting and Im sitting here wringing my hands about whether I am too far down the process to back out and avoid paying any fees.

My local broker hasn't replied to my email where I indicated that I received a no-cost 2.650 offer.
Don't worry, you can still back out. As long as you didn't pay for any sort of deposit or get an appraisal done, you won't be out any fees. People back out of locked mortgages all the time, sometimes even after all the title work and underwriting are done.

Of course, it is courteous to let people know immediately once you have decided to back out of a deal. At that point, it is possible the loan officer or broker will be upset with you, or they may not be upset at all. I've had both experiences, but usually the latter.

The reality is that you're learning as you're going, and you're not looking to screw anyone, so you're in good moral standing in my view. If you get a better offer (BTW, I knew that LenderFi would beat your other offers!), then you can give the other lenders a chance to beat it. If they don't beat it, then it makes sense for you to back out, and no one can really blame you for that.

LenderFi is one lender who usually tells borrowers that they view a lock as a commitment, and once you lock, they do not entertain the idea of beating other offers, and they may be somewhat annoyed if you back out. What I appreciate about them is that they are upfront about this. If you haven't locked already with LenderFi, you may want to leave them unlocked as you give your other lenders a chance to beat them.

If you've already locked with LenderFi, then when you get back your best revised offer(s) from the other lenders, at that point you can decide whether you'd like to proceed with LenderFi or the other lender. If the difference is small then you may want to proceed with LenderFi, but at some point it may be large enough that you break with LenderFi even if it means upsetting them. Upsetting them is not a huge deal; the worst case scenario might be that they choose not to work with you on a loan in the future, and the best case is that nothing happens.

Just to comment on a previous point you made, if the title work already got started with Fidelity, that doesn't mean you need to use them if you move to a different lender. It happens all the time that a title company starts some work but the borrower withdraws and they don't get paid. The reality is that they're not doing much work unless the loan is consummated. The title insurance fees are compensation for risk that they would only take if you proceed with the loan. And the settlement fees are compensation for work that is primarily back-loaded. You should feel totally comfortable using a different title company with a different lender. I'd also add that some of these lenders have special negotiated title rates that may be lower than a reissue rate, so just be mindful of that possibility.

Just to summarize: don't stress. You're in a great situation. You have an excellent offer from LenderFi and can't do worse than that. Meanwhile you have 3 other lenders who will try to compete for your business, which means you may do better. And you haven't gone anywhere near the point of no return with any of them.
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

presto987 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:32 pm Just to summarize: don't stress. You're in a great situation. You have an excellent offer from LenderFi and can't do worse than that. Meanwhile you have 3 other lenders who will try to compete for your business, which means you may do better. And you haven't gone anywhere near the point of no return with any of them.
Thanks, this really puts me at ease.

My local broker has submitted the loan, at 2.750, to underwriting, but I also sent him the loan estimate that I received from LenderFi and am waiting for him to respond.

With LenderFi, I don't even care about the title costs because the lender credits are covering A+B+C anyway!

Strong came back and explained that the prop value used in the 2.650 offer I have is $551k and suggested its a juiced number. Zillow shows $463,049 and then Realtor.com shows $514,600, so $551k is wow. Anyway, Strong can get me 2.650, but is warning me that an appraisal may be required and that $700 is non-refundable. So I asked them to run and get me an offer at 2.650 with an appraisal waiver...we'll see what they come back with.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

Who is Strong? Is that the local broker?

Lower LTVs can qualify for better pricing, so it looks like LenderFi is using a higher property value to get you to a 60% LTV. The number may be juiced, but we are in a hot housing market, and the number is always going to be somewhat subjective. if it passes through the Fannie/Freddie appraisal waiver systems, then you should be fine.

By the way, when you say 2.650%, I'm pretty sure you mean 2.625%.
JMak97008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JMak97008 »

presto987 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:47 pm Who is Strong? Is that the local broker?

Lower LTVs can qualify for better pricing, so it looks like LenderFi is using a higher property value to get you to a 60% LTV. The number may be juiced, but we are in a hot housing market, and the number is always going to be somewhat subjective. if it passes through the Fannie/Freddie appraisal waiver systems, then you should be fine.

By the way, when you say 2.650%, I'm pretty sure you mean 2.625%.
Strong Home Mortgage - got to them via Costco's Mortgage Services. Different than Local Broker.

Local Broker used $465,000 now that I am looking at it. NASB used $450,000.

And, yes, you're right, lols, it is 2.625, not 2.650. Thanks for pointing that out.

I owe $330,392 on my current 30-year FRM.
JMak97008
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Post by JMak97008 »

Wow, my local broker responded to my email letting him know that I received a 2.625 rate offer with the following: "I reviewed the docs and the cost for to me to match is $4,700 which I cannot match. I would have to write a check to close your loan and I am not willing to do so…".
Jb526
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jb526 »

Is a combination of the cheapest loan rate and lowest payment always the top priority? Is it very unusual or unreasonable for a borrower to pass up their lowest-rate option and go with another lender at .25% higher rate just because they know that lender will keep servicing the loan until it's paid off? Just wondering what sort of risk is involved in leaving to pure chance who will end up servicing a loan eventually otherwise. Is it worth sacrificing .25% solely for the comfort of knowing that a loan will always remain under the same roof right up through the final payment?
dead4life
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dead4life »

dead4life wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:39 pm I have a question about the finalizing of my mortgage

I have a refinance with IM in progress. 2.375%, 30 year term, No Cost
This is my timeline

11/24 Rate Locked for 30days and LE signed. Documents submitted.
12/9 More verification documents submitted
12/29 Underwriter conditionally approved and we signed Preliminary Closing Disclosure. Estimated closing 1/2, with being estimated funding 1/7.
12/31 Processor got back to me and said she is clearing internal conditions asked of them from underwriter, but need nothing further from me.
1/13 No updates since... So I emailed them and no response yet.

With rates advertised going up on IM's website to 2.625%. Am I at risk of losing my rate because the refinance is taking a long time? My Preliminary Closing Disclosure did show 2.375% rate, but stated terms and costs are not final until closing. Also why would it take so long after "conditional approval"

Thanks.
Last update. Got scheduled with notary to sign closing docs 1/23. Estimated funding 1/28. About 60 days from start to close. Overall, positive experience with Interactive Mortgage. Though not sure if holiday season extended the timeline a bit.
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