Refinance Mega Thread

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Count of Notre Dame
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Count of Notre Dame »

presto987 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:16 pm
Count of Notre Dame wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:26 am Anyone have experience with jumbo mortgage lenders? The lowest rates I've seen are 2.75% for 80 LTV, but wondering if I should bother trying to refinance that again.
Competitive jumbo rates tend to be more in the realm of the big banks (Wells, Chase, BofA, Citi, First Republic, etc.)

On this forum, check out the thread entitled: Relationship mortgage discounts for moving a million assets

Most of the discussion on there is about jumbos with the big banks, which could be useful even if you are not looking to move assets.
Thank you! Yup I've worked with most of them before I do live in CA.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3329
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

As a follow up to the few folks who locked with Better Mortgage in mid to late August, I received my check from them for a courtesy refund of FHFA adverse pricing they had included in my mortgage pricing terms. Nice little bonus!
User avatar
ray.james
Posts: 1390
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:08 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ray.james »

mervinj7 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:40 pm
ray.james wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:50 am In CA I saw owning is now doing jumbos up to 2mill with 70% LTV at 2.875(30 year fixed!) But overall jumbo is still mixed.
I just got a call from them and they said 65% LTV required. Where does it say 70%? I might try to get another loan officer.
Mervin, A friend passed me this. We both are looking for sub 3 rates and calling banks. On their website it says 50% but loan officers seem to have leeway in how they do this. I will check with him when he spoke to them. Because it is not official, we are also weary if they will honor and lock the terms.

Since I know you are in bay area, we found third federal is offering 2.35 for 5/1 arm(refinance). The constraint is 1 mill max mortgage. ( they do allow HELOC from secondary bank, so you can max HELOC out and bring balance to 999k). Not sure if this helps you. Another closer one is firefightersfirstcu is at 2.625 5/5 arm(80% LTV, fees minimal). I feel we will see some better rates for jumbos in coming months.
When in doubt, http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79939
mceagle555
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mceagle555 »

mceagle555 wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:20 pm
mceagle555 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:57 pm Thanks to everyone's advice in this thread. Just locked with Better today. Details below if it helps everyone:

- 15yr Ref @ 2.125% (Could have gotten 2.0% with no lender credit)
- $460k Loan Amount
- Appraisal waived (57% LTV)
- Shopped for Title Services - $950 w/ Radian
- No escrow

Loan Costs (A+B+C+D+E-Lender Credit) = -$1200

Summary:

- Refinanced from 15-yr @ 2.375% to 15-yr @ 2.125%
- Pocketed $1,200
- Removed escrow allowing that money to grow interest for me
Update re: above refi from Better.com:

10/10: Application
10/10-12: Match competing rates
10/13: Rate Lock
10/13: All "tasks" completed
10/14: Title report ordered
10/19: Title report cleared

No word on final closing date yet, but I have checked my "task list" daily and never let a task sit for more than 12 hours.
Couple more updates on my timeline from Better Mortgage:

10/10: Application
10/10-12: Match competing lender rates
10/13: Rate Lock
10/13: All "tasks" completed
10/13: Got competing title quote from Radian & asked Better to match
10/14: Title report ordered from Better's Title Company (Processing agent thought they could match Radian's quote)
10/19: Title report cleared Better's Title Company
10/21: Processing agent tells me they can't match Radian's price, so they restart title work, now ordering from Radian
10/22: Radian returns title work
10/23: Radian title report cleared
User avatar
simplesimon
Posts: 3965
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:53 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by simplesimon »

pmr2017 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:27 pm
MAandMEMom wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:48 am Rates seem to be dropping again today. I’ve been reading this thread a few months now. I hear lots of providers bandied about and wonder if someone is in the same situation and choosing. Pretty simple non-jumbo with balance of $375k and value of $550k. Current no cost loan was acquired earlier this year at 3.75.

Better - can’t do as I’m in MA
Lenderfi - Rates seem good, mixed reviews?
Loancabin - no real rates shown until start process
Amerisave - refi’d a couple times with them in the past, current rates just ok
Stay local - rates bit higher but I have an option to go and pester

I would value suggestions, thank you!
I'm in MA and just locked in 2.875% 30 year fixed, $3,400 in closing costs (a chance my appraisal can be waived which would save $450) on a loan over $511k. My lender is offering 2.625% (same closing cost situation) on loans $510,400 and under.

I have a friend who just closed a refi with them and it was done in under 30 days.
Depending how far above $510,400 you are on your loan, you may get a decent ROI paying down to that amount.
tbone555
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:28 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tbone555 »

tbone555 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:28 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:44 pm
tbone555 wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:21 pm
coconutpolito wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:18 pm
tbone555 wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:43 am 10 weeks into a very slow refi at 2.625%, 30 -year. LTV is 78% and loan is about $490k.

Just received a verbal quote for 2.375% from LoanFlight. Seems like rates are dropping today. Working on getting my in-process refi to match this rate.
I'm wondering if rates will fall now that they are catching up on the previous refis. Loan cabin is now advertising 2.375 for a 30.
Current refi company wants a Loan Estimate to see if they can match, but to get these rates would require a credit pull which would jeopardize current refi. Catch-22.
I honestly would be surprised if "a credit pull ... would jeopardize current refi". Taking out a new credit line yes, but an an inquiry, unlikely.
You are probably correct. In any event I just cancelled my 10 week long refi and have locked with Better at 2.5%,30- year, $2400 net credit. Pretty happy with this as I was about to close at 2.626 with $1000 out f pocket. I refiananced over the summer with Better and was happy with their process (and the $2500 Amex credit).
I closed with Better on June 10th, and they just offered me $1k to extend the closing until December 10 on my latest refi. That will mean six months have past and they won't have their commission clawed back. So now up to $4400 in credits at 2.5/30-year.

Obviously this won't help everyone, but if you do serial refis with Better it is an angle to get extra lender credits.
InvestDoc
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestDoc »

tbone555 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:50 pm
tbone555 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:28 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:44 pm
tbone555 wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:21 pm
coconutpolito wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:18 pm

I'm wondering if rates will fall now that they are catching up on the previous refis. Loan cabin is now advertising 2.375 for a 30.
Current refi company wants a Loan Estimate to see if they can match, but to get these rates would require a credit pull which would jeopardize current refi. Catch-22.
I honestly would be surprised if "a credit pull ... would jeopardize current refi". Taking out a new credit line yes, but an an inquiry, unlikely.
You are probably correct. In any event I just cancelled my 10 week long refi and have locked with Better at 2.5%,30- year, $2400 net credit. Pretty happy with this as I was about to close at 2.626 with $1000 out f pocket. I refiananced over the summer with Better and was happy with their process (and the $2500 Amex credit).
I closed with Better on June 10th, and they just offered me $1k to extend the closing until December 10 on my latest refi. That will mean six months have past and they won't have their commission clawed back. So now up to $4400 in credits at 2.5/30-year.

Obviously this won't help everyone, but if you do serial refis with Better it is an angle to get extra lender credits.
That's amazing! Just a few days ago I tried to get them to match another LE for 30 years, 2.5% 0 cost and they said they can't offer that rate with my loan balance of $596K (within the high balance conforming limits). When were you quoted those rates and what is your balance, if you don't mind sharing?
tbone555
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:28 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tbone555 »

InvestDoc wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:48 pm
tbone555 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:50 pm
tbone555 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:28 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:44 pm
tbone555 wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:21 pm

Current refi company wants a Loan Estimate to see if they can match, but to get these rates would require a credit pull which would jeopardize current refi. Catch-22.
I honestly would be surprised if "a credit pull ... would jeopardize current refi". Taking out a new credit line yes, but an an inquiry, unlikely.
You are probably correct. In any event I just cancelled my 10 week long refi and have locked with Better at 2.5%,30- year, $2400 net credit. Pretty happy with this as I was about to close at 2.626 with $1000 out f pocket. I refiananced over the summer with Better and was happy with their process (and the $2500 Amex credit).
I closed with Better on June 10th, and they just offered me $1k to extend the closing until December 10 on my latest refi. That will mean six months have past and they won't have their commission clawed back. So now up to $4400 in credits at 2.5/30-year.

Obviously this won't help everyone, but if you do serial refis with Better it is an angle to get extra lender credits.
That's amazing! Just a few days ago I tried to get them to match another LE for 30 years, 2.5% 0 cost and they said they can't offer that rate with my loan balance of $596K (within the high balance conforming limits). When were you quoted those rates and what is your balance, if you don't mind sharing?
Yesterday and today. Loan amount is $490k. LTV is 75%.
tj
Posts: 3727
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:10 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

InvestDoc wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:48 pm
tbone555 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:50 pm
tbone555 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:28 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:44 pm
tbone555 wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:21 pm

Current refi company wants a Loan Estimate to see if they can match, but to get these rates would require a credit pull which would jeopardize current refi. Catch-22.
I honestly would be surprised if "a credit pull ... would jeopardize current refi". Taking out a new credit line yes, but an an inquiry, unlikely.
You are probably correct. In any event I just cancelled my 10 week long refi and have locked with Better at 2.5%,30- year, $2400 net credit. Pretty happy with this as I was about to close at 2.626 with $1000 out f pocket. I refiananced over the summer with Better and was happy with their process (and the $2500 Amex credit).
I closed with Better on June 10th, and they just offered me $1k to extend the closing until December 10 on my latest refi. That will mean six months have past and they won't have their commission clawed back. So now up to $4400 in credits at 2.5/30-year.

Obviously this won't help everyone, but if you do serial refis with Better it is an angle to get extra lender credits.
That's amazing! Just a few days ago I tried to get them to match another LE for 30 years, 2.5% 0 cost and they said they can't offer that rate with my loan balance of $596K (within the high balance conforming limits). When were you quoted those rates and what is your balance, if you don't mind sharing?
Your debt balance is above Jumbo status. That's a whole different thing.
proeddie
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:56 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by proeddie »

I never thought we would refi more than once in a year but here we are working on our 3rd refi this year.

So we refied in Mar with owning for 3.375% no cost 30 yr. Then we refied again with better.com and closed in September for a 2.5% 30 yr loan and after all the lender credits got a positive $400 and the $2500 Amex credit which posted last week. I was real happy with everything but then owning contacted me this week offering me a 2.25% no cost refi since I refied with another company and they said it was a retention program. This was crazy because I wasn't even trying to refi and now my loan is in underwriting. They are saying we should close by second week of November, so fingers crossed.
jaybee9
Posts: 142
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jaybee9 »

Got several questions that came up in the midst of going back and forth to several lenders to beat LEs.

1) What's the thinking on locking in this situation: I'm trying to do a no-cost refi and we are getting closer but $400-$900 dollars away. I think I will get there soon but it seems pointless to lock in when it's not minimally acceptable. The advice here seems to be just go ahead and lock and keep negotiating but it seems some lenders are fine with that (e.g., Better) and some not so much (e.g., LenderFi) in that they talk about how much effort goes into generating LE and locking, etc.

2) How do rates fluctuate on the weekend? Not at all or depends on the lender?

3) Regarding title services, I'm suspicious that some lenders use that to pad their profits. With AIMloan title services were/are was $645 (Feb)/$1010 (now), with LenderFI it's $755, Better and Ally are $1095. IMO hard to rationalize the scatter and changing over the course of 8 months. Love to hear thoughts on that. Plus, I probably can't even utilize reissue rate unless new lender uses old title company as they don't do direct to consumer title services. Thoughts?
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3329
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

jaybee9 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:55 am Regarding title services, I'm suspicious that some lenders use that to pad their profits. With AIMloan title services were/are was $645 (Feb)/$1010 (now), with LenderFI it's $755, Better and Ally are $1095. IMO hard to rationalize the scatter and changing over the course of 8 months. Love to hear thoughts on that. Plus, I probably can't even utilize reissue rate unless new lender uses old title company as they don't do direct to consumer title services. Thoughts?
The lenders do not "pad their profits" with title services. Those charges are to the title services provider, so it isn't their pocket unless they own the settlement company used (like Better owns Better Settlement Services, which they themselves outsource much of the activity to Westcor Land & Title, and I think LenderFi owns a settlement provider as well). But the simple answer there is just have them use a different, cheaper settlement company. They are legally obligated to use whomever you wish.

As for the reissue rate, that varies by state. In FL and NC, there was no need to reuse the same company to get the reissue rate. However, other states may not provide a state-mandated reissue process, so any reissue discounts would be a "courtesy" of the prior company.
teamDE
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:16 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by teamDE »

We closed on our refi with RateRabbit yesterday. It took about 2 months, but was pretty low effort on our part. Smooth sailing.
2.5% 15yr fixed, no points or closing costs, $395k mortgage in MA.
tj
Posts: 3727
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:10 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

teamDE wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:25 pm We closed on our refi with RateRabbit yesterday. It took about 2 months, but was pretty low effort on our part. Smooth sailing.
2.5% 15yr fixed, no points or closing costs, $395k mortgage in MA.
I don't think people have mentioned them. What do the promotion codes do?
itworks
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:20 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by itworks »

There is so much wealthy knowledge in this giant thread and I am have difficulty reading them through. May I pick you guys' brain to help with a strategy with my situation :D ?

CA, primary residence
LTV: very low (~30%)
DTI: pretty low
Credit Score: 800+
Loan amount: 480K (conforming in my area)
Target: 15 year fixed

I believe my case is the most simple one and highly profitable for the lender with a large loan amount yet still in conforming rage. My goal is to do a no-point, no-cost (covered by credit) one with the lender who can give the lowest rate. I do not mind shopping around a bit.

Thanks!
Minty
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:19 pm
Location: NorCal

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Minty »

itworks wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:41 am There is so much wealthy knowledge in this giant thread and I am have difficulty reading them through. May I pick you guys' brain to help with a strategy with my situation :D ?

CA, primary residence
LTV: very low (~30%)
DTI: pretty low
Credit Score: 800+
Loan amount: 480K (conforming in my area)
Target: 15 year fixed

I believe my case is the most simple one and highly profitable for the lender with a large loan amount yet still in conforming rage. My goal is to do a no-point, no-cost (covered by credit) one with the lender who can give the lowest rate. I do not mind shopping around a bit.

Thanks!
You might start by getting a loan estimate from Owning.com, which has a pretty low advertised rate, and then shop the LE to Interactive Mortgage, Better, Loan Cabin, Loan Depot, and Lender Fi. The Better price guarantee promises to beat any LE by $100 or pay you $100, but it applies only to a LE dated within one business day, so you have to shop fast. If after applying to all of them (and more) you get a better offer, ask Owning to match.

I suppose a more sophisticated strategy would be to take the Owning LE only to Better, and then contact others one at a time to drive down the offer you take back to Owning, but some of these places never get back to you, take a long time, or won't give you a written LE if they suspect you might be shopping. If you can beat the Owning 2.056 APR on a 15 with one round of shopping, I'd call it good.
Core Four w/ nominal bonds & TIPS. Refi Rampage: Purchase: 3.875% 30 -> R1 3% 20 -> R2 2.375% 15 -> R3 1.99% 15
teamDE
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:16 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by teamDE »

tj wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:06 am
teamDE wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:25 pm We closed on our refi with RateRabbit yesterday. It took about 2 months, but was pretty low effort on our part. Smooth sailing.
2.5% 15yr fixed, no points or closing costs, $395k mortgage in MA.
I don't think people have mentioned them. What do the promotion codes do?
I learned about them through this thread. Funny, the rep i talked to mentioned he was getting lots of traffic from BHs. hah. I'm not sure about the promo codes, i didn't use one.
Xrayman69
Posts: 637
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Xrayman69 »

Update with Load Depot process and timing

Started first week of August and made contact
Rate locked at 2.25% for conventional loan and (Correction LTV is 40%) For primary home in Seattle.

2.5k credits for closing will be expecting to receive $500 at closing

Signing papers tomorrow (late October).

Essentially 2.5 months froMy start to signing. How long must I wait for LD to consider another refinance if rates continue to decline?
Last edited by Xrayman69 on Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BlackcatCA
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BlackcatCA »

TheChaz wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:36 pm Closed with Owning.com last week with a 1.75% on a 15y with 1.5 points in lender fees. My distribution date was supposed to be Monday but now Owning is telling me they are running 5 to 7 days behind... not sure how that affects the loan?
That’s the lowest rate I have seen. Can you post more info: what is the closing costs? How is the experience with Owning? Is there a loan threshold?

We have done 2x with LF, both no costs and process quite painless. But this rate is quite tempting....
tj
Posts: 3727
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:10 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

BlackcatCA wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:46 pm
TheChaz wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:36 pm Closed with Owning.com last week with a 1.75% on a 15y with 1.5 points in lender fees. My distribution date was supposed to be Monday but now Owning is telling me they are running 5 to 7 days behind... not sure how that affects the loan?
That’s the lowest rate I have seen. Can you post more info: what is the closing costs? How is the experience with Owning? Is there a loan threshold?

We have done 2x with LF, both no costs and process quite painless. But this rate is quite tempting....
He paid 1.5 points. So multiply your loan balance x 1.5% and add any title fees etc. Those are the closing csots.
totallynotsure
Posts: 206
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:35 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by totallynotsure »

should 3% still be attainable with 20% down in New York?

Better.com has me at 3.375% with $8K in points. seems...high?

also, there was less points at 15% down. is that typical?

thanks.
tj
Posts: 3727
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:10 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

So I talked to a local broker who uses the UWM Conquest program and they said that they have usually been closing in 12 days. If you were to purchase something now, would you just take whatever minimal closing cost rate that you can get from UWM to get the purchase done and then shortly thereafter optimize your rate with a rock bottom refinance, assuming that's lower than what you can get from UWM?
need403bhelp
Posts: 1122
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 6:25 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by need403bhelp »

need403bhelp wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:55 pm
presto987 wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:20 pm
need403bhelp wrote: Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:54 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:03 am
need403bhelp wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:01 am Thanks for your advice re going with lender #1.

I wish 2.375% 30 year fixed was on my rate table, but it is not and they won’t budge on giving me that rate.

FWIW, the difference in interest over the entire 30 years between the two loans is $6598.04, so I guess I could think of it as them giving me half the difference between the two loans but all up front.
Don’t forget the time value of money and potential inflation (if you believe we’d have inflation over the next 30 years).
So despite the overwhelming advice on this forum to go with lender #1, I'm still debating the two options.

My other though - I do have another loan app that I just recently locked with LoanDepot for 2.375% but not at zero cost. If I close with lender #1 this week, I could probably get a TMS statement in the next few weeks, and tell LoanDepot "hey, my underlying loan has changed." That way I could, theoretically, have my large cash in hand cake and eat my 2.375% rate also.

Anyone have any such experience with LoanDepot - i.e., switching mortgage loans in the (early) part of a refi? The LD agent did tell me it is taking close to 60 days to close.

Thanks!
First post here, but I've been following this thread religiously for the last month.

I agree with everyone else that lender #1 is a no-brainer. Why? Because you are netting close to $4000 and still have the optionality of refinancing again at a lower rate if available. Worst case scenario, if you cannot get a 2.375% low/no cost deal for refi #2, you can use some of the $4000 that you made during refi #1 toward refi #2's closing costs and still come out ahead compared to doing one refi with lender #2. Heck, by using the $4000 you made on refi #1, maybe you can even buy down refi #2's rate to 2.25%! That would be a real win, and the only cost would be the time/effort of having to refi twice.

I do like the idea of what you're suggesting doing with Loan Depot. It sounds like it should be possible, but I don't have any specific knowledge about that. How would they know that your loan has changed?

The 60-day timing would be good, because it should be long enough to get your TMS statement, but short enough to avoid the December 1 Fannie Mae fee getting priced into your loan.

BTW, would appreciate a PM if you're willing to share who lender #2 is, and also from which lenders you got LE's to price match with Better, lender #2, and Loan Depot. Thanks!
Thanks again for your thoughts ( bold added for emphasis in quote above ).

As a reminder loan #1 closed & funded w/Better.com earlier September. 30 year fixed conv w/waived escrows 2.5%, A $0, B&C ~$1,580, E $94.00, Lender Credits -$3,100 (state doesn't allow cash back @ closing so paid down principal ~$1,300), also apparently getting ~$1,400 check in mail for refund of delayed 0.5% FHFA fee, plus pending $2,500 statement credit to AMEX Card. So A+B+C+E+Lender Credits&AMEX&FHFA refund = ~$-5,300.

Getting ready to close loan #2, scheduled for late this coming week. 30 year fixed conv w/waived escrows 2.25%, A $1595, B&C ~$1,335, E $160, Lender Credit -$1,310, so A+B+C+E+Lender Credit = ~$1,780, which I am completely fine paying as it is covered mostly by my cash/principal decrease for loan #1. FWIW, when rate shopping a bit for loan #2, I was able to get a personal check for >50% of this amount from another lender who couldn't match (very long story and required lots of back and forth), plus hoping to get $250 gift card from Quicken also.

Now, I do have another option for loan #2, and they seem to be about $450 cheaper as far as A+B+C+E+lender credits than who I'm scheduled to close with above. However, they seem to take longer in general, and made a bigger deal about underlying loan changing (perhaps because they didn't really get it at the beginning and I had to be very detailed and crystal clear about what happened, whereas the other lender was just "sure no problem we'll change payoff amount and lender being paid off").

So really I'm trying to decide whether to go ahead and close later this week with the $1,780 lender or risk waiting to save another $450. Any thoughts appreciated. Also, I guess I’ll point out ahead of time I’m not really interested in raising the rate for refi #2 to 2.375% to make it true no cost, as I really just want to be done refinancing for a longer period of time, which having 2.25% will allow.

Thanks!
Just wanted to update that I did close with loan #2 w/LoanDepot at 2.25% as above.

The only very interesting quirk for anyone doing such "overlapping" refinances in the future, is that after clearly communicating the change in underlying loan & lender and having all of it changed on my closing docs, somehow the title company sent the payoff to the OLD lender for OLD loan (rather than updating it).

Fortunately, for me, I actually only found out about it because I kept asking for the wire out document after reading some horror stories on the Internet. Specifically, my original loan back in the day was with Better.com that was transferred to Mr. Cooper, and my subsequent 2.5% Better.com refinance (loan #1 above) was also transferred to Mr. Cooper right before closing with LoanDepot. So, for some reason, title ended up sending payoff to Mr. Cooper for OLD loan rather than to The Money Source as per closing docs, but Mr. Cooper noted old loan had already been paid off so just applied it to new loan which had just been transferred in to them.

Moral of story is a lot of problems can come up doing such "overlapping" refis, although in my case turned out well due to sheer luck.

P.S. As another moral to this story, if requesting payoff from Mr. Cooper, screenshot EVERYTHING. Their online interface specifically told me it would be free, but ended up charging me $25 and interface changed the next day. Not sure whether this was error due to loan onboarding, as I only found out about transfer when I logged into Mr. Cooper account to check on my OLD loan and noticed new one there, and that is when I requested payoff that I thought (and was told) would be free.
tj
Posts: 3727
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:10 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

totallynotsure wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:37 pm should 3% still be attainable with 20% down in New York?

Better.com has me at 3.375% with $8K in points. seems...high?

also, there was less points at 15% down. is that typical?

thanks.
Looks like rates have gone up at Better in the past few days.

In California, on a 10% down 400k purchase, I'm seeing 2.875% with $1134 of points, or 3.0% with $1022 credit. $66/mo of PMI.

This is what Better had spit out in California a couple weeks ago, I just happened to save PDFs of them:

5% down on a 400k purchase, $380k loan 2.875% with no points. $124/mo of PMI
20% down on a 400k purchase, $320k loan, 3% with $531 of points.
25% down on a 400k purchase, $300k loan, 2.875% with $66 of points
BlackcatCA
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BlackcatCA »

tj wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:34 pm
BlackcatCA wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:46 pm
TheChaz wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:36 pm Closed with Owning.com last week with a 1.75% on a 15y with 1.5 points in lender fees. My distribution date was supposed to be Monday but now Owning is telling me they are running 5 to 7 days behind... not sure how that affects the loan?
That’s the lowest rate I have seen. Can you post more info: what is the closing costs? How is the experience with Owning? Is there a loan threshold?

We have done 2x with LF, both no costs and process quite painless. But this rate is quite tempting....
He paid 1.5 points. So multiply your loan balance x 1.5% and add any title fees etc. Those are the closing csots.
Right, but i want to know what the Owning lender credit offers are. Have you done a refi with Owning? Did you also get 1.75% for 15 yrs?
jimmy2040
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat May 09, 2020 1:52 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jimmy2040 »

IM is another good option. Their rates are no fees.

15 year is 2.25 right now. 1.99 two weeks ago. https://www.interactivemortgage.com/
presto987
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

itworks wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:41 am There is so much wealthy knowledge in this giant thread and I am have difficulty reading them through. May I pick you guys' brain to help with a strategy with my situation :D ?

CA, primary residence
LTV: very low (~30%)
DTI: pretty low
Credit Score: 800+
Loan amount: 480K (conforming in my area)
Target: 15 year fixed

I believe my case is the most simple one and highly profitable for the lender with a large loan amount yet still in conforming rage. My goal is to do a no-point, no-cost (covered by credit) one with the lender who can give the lowest rate. I do not mind shopping around a bit.

Thanks!
Your parameters are pretty much identical to mine Congratulations, you are in the sweet spot for mortgage pricing.

I agree with your “no cost” strategy and suggest that you also consider a negative cost strategy where you try to maximize your lender credits. Then refi again in 6 months and do the same thing. When you get tired of serial refinancing, at that point refi to bring your rate down. Because of this possibility, I’ve started to view my mortgage as an asset that I can extract value from, rather than a debt where the goal is to minimize the interest rate.

To give an example, I did my first refi with Better. I could have netted $1800 at 2.5% (for a 30 year) but decided to go with 2.625% and netted $3700. The breakeven on this was about 3 years. Considering I am already refinancing again after a few months, it was a no brainer to take the additional $1900. By the same logic, I would have been willing to take an even higher rate, but I already hit Better’s max lender credit ($5k).

On my current refi with Loan Cabin, I am looking to take as much lender credit as they will allow, which appears to be over $12k. I expect to net around $11.6k at a 2.875% 30-year rate. I’ll be applying the credit to title/recording fees as well as prepaid property taxes. If you have property taxes due early next year, you should be able to make them a prepaid.

To actually answer your question:
Your worst case scenario for a no cost 15-year is 2.25%, because Interactive Mortgage is advertising that rate, and you appear to meet the conditions. That would be the easiest approach without shopping around.

Loan Cabin will almost certainly offer the best upfront pricing of any lender. I’d expect that you can get 2.125% and net around $1000 after closing costs. Check out their website calculator. Make sure to select a 60 day lock (they won’t allow less). Whatever comes out is the lowest rate with no points. That rate would come with some lender credit, but the site doesn’t show you how much.

One other benefit of LC is that they offer a float down around 10 days from closing if rates have fallen by at least 0.125% compared to when you locked.

The drawback is that it will be a long process with LC. At least I am hearing that they are much faster at responding to applications now than they were from July-Sept. So you could at least try to get an LE from them and try for a match elsewhere.

Another lender that has a shot at giving you a slightly better upfront offer than Interactive Mortgage is LenderFi. Their pricing when you apply is better than what they show on the website.

The 2 lenders who have been reported to beat LC when you provide your LE are Better and LoanDepot (also possibly Ally which is on the same platform as Better). Better generally offers one of the best experiences and 30–45 day closings these days. They will typically look to beat competing LEs by $100. But if you qualify for an appraisal waiver and use Radian for title (or ask them to price match Radian), then you wind up $850 ahead, which is not bad.

If Better is unable to beat your best offer or you want more lender credit than their max, LoanDepot is the best bet. I was able to get LD to beat an LC offer by around $750. You need to find a good LO though. Contact a member here who has gotten a good deal (I have a good LO contact if you want). Then apply though that LO’s link. LD seems to be taking a while to close but is probably better than LC in that regard.

I don’t think LC, LenderFi, or IM typically beat other offers. There might be exceptions, but I would view those lenders as a place to get a good first offer.

To minimize title costs, use Radian for LC or Better. They quoted me $900 for Section C with both lenders. All the other lenders I listed above seem to have preferred arrangements with title companies that lead to pretty low title costs.
Last edited by presto987 on Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tj
Posts: 3727
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:10 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

BlackcatCA wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:54 pm
tj wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:34 pm
BlackcatCA wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:46 pm
TheChaz wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:36 pm Closed with Owning.com last week with a 1.75% on a 15y with 1.5 points in lender fees. My distribution date was supposed to be Monday but now Owning is telling me they are running 5 to 7 days behind... not sure how that affects the loan?
That’s the lowest rate I have seen. Can you post more info: what is the closing costs? How is the experience with Owning? Is there a loan threshold?

We have done 2x with LF, both no costs and process quite painless. But this rate is quite tempting....
He paid 1.5 points. So multiply your loan balance x 1.5% and add any title fees etc. Those are the closing csots.
Right, but i want to know what the Owning lender credit offers are. Have you done a refi with Owning? Did you also get 1.75% for 15 yrs?
My understanding is that you either pay points, or get lender credits (negative points), so if you pay 1.75 points, I don't believe you would be getting lender credits.
presto987
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

tj wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:50 pm
BlackcatCA wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:54 pm
tj wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:34 pm
BlackcatCA wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:46 pm
TheChaz wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:36 pm Closed with Owning.com last week with a 1.75% on a 15y with 1.5 points in lender fees. My distribution date was supposed to be Monday but now Owning is telling me they are running 5 to 7 days behind... not sure how that affects the loan?
That’s the lowest rate I have seen. Can you post more info: what is the closing costs? How is the experience with Owning? Is there a loan threshold?

We have done 2x with LF, both no costs and process quite painless. But this rate is quite tempting....
He paid 1.5 points. So multiply your loan balance x 1.5% and add any title fees etc. Those are the closing csots.
Right, but i want to know what the Owning lender credit offers are. Have you done a refi with Owning? Did you also get 1.75% for 15 yrs?
My understanding is that you either pay points, or get lender credits (negative points), so if you pay 1.75 points, I don't believe you would be getting lender credits.
Correct. Lender credit is the opposite of points.

Owning used to advertise no cost refis. Now they are only advertising rates with points. The 15-year 1.75% rate is with 1.5 points, as someone stated above. I believe they take care of your title and recording costs though.

I’ve read that a few people have been able to get no cost refis with Owning recently, so it might be that you need to ask or provide a competing LE in order to avoid points.

IM offers true no cost loans. But if you are looking for lender credits for a “better than no cost” loan, then Owning, IM, LenderFi do not offer that. You need to look at Better (have them beat someone else’s LE), LC, LD, etc.
totallynotsure
Posts: 206
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:35 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by totallynotsure »

can someone help me understand why a lender would offer a better rate and/or less/no points on a loan with 10-15% down instead of 20%.

i can't seem to wrap my head around that one...
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3329
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

totallynotsure wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:07 am can someone help me understand why a lender would offer a better rate and/or less/no points on a loan with 10-15% down instead of 20%.

i can't seem to wrap my head around that one...
Oftentimes a larger loan is more profitable to them and cheaper to you. In my second and third refis this year, rolling in the financing costs increased my lender credits over $750. Similar changes in loan size could be at play here.
presto987
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

Also I recently learned: if you are paying PMI with less than 20% down, the lender (or whoever is investing in the loan) can make some money off that through a reinsurance agreement. At 20% down I assume there is no PMI.
nic3456
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

My loan closed on 10/16 and was supposed to fund on 10/21. The lender sent the funds to the wrong title company so now everything won't fund until today. I prepaid interest starting on 10/21 - should it be automatic that I get refunded those 5 days of interest or do I need to try to get from lender/title co?
Goal33
Posts: 1505
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

nic3456 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:10 am My loan closed on 10/16 and was supposed to fund on 10/21. The lender sent the funds to the wrong title company so now everything won't fund until today. I prepaid interest starting on 10/21 - should it be automatic that I get refunded those 5 days of interest or do I need to try to get from lender/title co?
that's a title mistake, not a lender mistake.
vapro10s
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:47 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by vapro10s »

mceagle555 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:46 pm
mceagle555 wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:20 pm
mceagle555 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:57 pm Thanks to everyone's advice in this thread. Just locked with Better today. Details below if it helps everyone:

- 15yr Ref @ 2.125% (Could have gotten 2.0% with no lender credit)
- $460k Loan Amount
- Appraisal waived (57% LTV)
- Shopped for Title Services - $950 w/ Radian
- No escrow

Loan Costs (A+B+C+D+E-Lender Credit) = -$1200

Summary:

- Refinanced from 15-yr @ 2.375% to 15-yr @ 2.125%
- Pocketed $1,200
- Removed escrow allowing that money to grow interest for me
Update re: above refi from Better.com:

10/10: Application
10/10-12: Match competing rates
10/13: Rate Lock
10/13: All "tasks" completed
10/14: Title report ordered
10/19: Title report cleared

No word on final closing date yet, but I have checked my "task list" daily and never let a task sit for more than 12 hours.
Couple more updates on my timeline from Better Mortgage:

10/10: Application
10/10-12: Match competing lender rates
10/13: Rate Lock
10/13: All "tasks" completed
10/13: Got competing title quote from Radian & asked Better to match
10/14: Title report ordered from Better's Title Company (Processing agent thought they could match Radian's quote)
10/19: Title report cleared Better's Title Company
10/21: Processing agent tells me they can't match Radian's price, so they restart title work, now ordering from Radian
10/22: Radian returns title work
10/23: Radian title report cleared

-----------
mceagle555, Congratulations you are doing well!.

In contrast to your results, I have a refi application in with Better where

Refi from 3.375% 30-year to 2.75% 15-year
loan amount $241,000
Appraisal Waived (68% LTV)
Shopped Title Services and have at $944
Was told have to escrow because we have flood insurance

A+B+C+D+E= 2,659 - 4,883 = $2,224 back towards escrows

Will have an escrow account wash due to old lender escrow funds received back to fund new escrow account.

Since applying in early mid-September I feel rates have moved but do not have another LE to bring to better to match.
Glad have this going now to skip governments upcoming .5% NEW tax but wishing I was on the ball this summer for AMEX $2,500 promotion.

I think to get your 2.125%, I remember a cost of $812? Our credit scores were above 800

What do you think? Any advice.

Thanks for Reading my 1st post.
JASchneider68
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JASchneider68 »

Hello.

I'm sorry if this is even a well-covered question, but it's a huge thread and I'm a know-nothing. I have 2 LEs from LD and Better, and in section A, Better's only lists points (which seem to be changing as I write), while LD's show points and an origination fee. LD has discounted points, but Better's still beating LD out because there's no origination fee. Is this just trickery, or does it mean something? The LD agent says it may be the difference between a broker and a lender, but I thought these documents were all costs included LEs. Confused.

Thanks.
Last edited by JASchneider68 on Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tj
Posts: 3727
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:10 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

JASchneider68 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:48 pm Hello.

I'm sorry if this is even a well-covered question, but it's a huge thread and I'm a know-nothing. I have 2 LEs from LD and Better, and in section A, Better's only lists points (which seem to be changing as I write), while LD's show points and an origination fee. LD has discounted points, but Better's still beating LD out because there's no origination fee. Is this just trickery, or does it mean something? The LD agent says it may be the difference between a broker and a lender, but I thought these documents were all costs included LEs. Confused.

Thanks.
My understanding is that B etter doesn't charge an origination fee.
yogesh
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:20 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by yogesh »

tj wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:02 pm
JASchneider68 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:48 pm Hello.

I'm sorry if this is even a well-covered question, but it's a huge thread and I'm a know-nothing. I have 2 LEs from LD and Better, and in section A, Better's only lists points (which seem to be changing as I write), while LD's show points and an origination fee. LD has discounted points, but Better's still beating LD out because there's no origination fee. Is this just trickery, or does it mean something? The LD agent says it may be the difference between a broker and a lender, but I thought these documents were all costs included LEs. Confused.

Thanks.
My understanding is that B etter doesn't charge an origination fee.
In any case best to compare rates/term with A+B+C+E-Credit fees mentioned in LE.
Emergency: FDIC | Taxable: VTMFX | Retirement: TR2040
tj
Posts: 3727
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:10 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

yogesh wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:50 pm
tj wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:02 pm
JASchneider68 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:48 pm Hello.

I'm sorry if this is even a well-covered question, but it's a huge thread and I'm a know-nothing. I have 2 LEs from LD and Better, and in section A, Better's only lists points (which seem to be changing as I write), while LD's show points and an origination fee. LD has discounted points, but Better's still beating LD out because there's no origination fee. Is this just trickery, or does it mean something? The LD agent says it may be the difference between a broker and a lender, but I thought these documents were all costs included LEs. Confused.

Thanks.
My understanding is that B etter doesn't charge an origination fee.
In any case best to compare rates/term with A+B+C+E-Credit fees mentioned in LE.
Isn't E set by the locality?
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3329
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

tj wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:51 pm
yogesh wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:50 pm
tj wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:02 pm My understanding is that B etter doesn't charge an origination fee.
In any case best to compare rates/term with A+B+C+E-Credit fees mentioned in LE.
Isn't E set by the locality?
Yes, so if comparing offer 1 or offer 2, then you can ignore it. However, if you are deciding whether to refi or not, then you should include it as it is a cost you otherwise wouldn’t need to pay. In some states, this can be thousands of dollars.

Thus, in the end, it’s easier to always say A + B + C + E - credits as it correct for all cases.
JASchneider68
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JASchneider68 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:58 pmYes, so if comparing offer 1 or offer 2, then you can ignore it. However, if you are deciding whether to refi or not, then you should include it as it is a cost you otherwise wouldn’t need to pay. In some states, this can be thousands of dollars.

Thus, in the end, it’s easier to always say A + B + C + E - credits as it correct for all cases.
Thanks for the feedback. Comparing A+B+C still puts Better ahead, and substantially so if there's no appraisal. In addition, I understand I should probably be asking for title services to be handled by a 3rd party, and hope they'll end up being equivalent across LEs. Is the real answer just that Better doesn't charge origination fees, and therefore will win out over LD unless LD drastically reduces its fees, say by crediting all points? I was actually expecting LD to beat Better's quote. Of course, this could all be different by tomorrow.

Oh, and I forgot to say, E is under $300. It's not making my decision. I think the refinance is worth it if I can lock in the rate.
presto987
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

JASchneider68 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:35 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:58 pmYes, so if comparing offer 1 or offer 2, then you can ignore it. However, if you are deciding whether to refi or not, then you should include it as it is a cost you otherwise wouldn’t need to pay. In some states, this can be thousands of dollars.

Thus, in the end, it’s easier to always say A + B + C + E - credits as it correct for all cases.
Thanks for the feedback. Comparing A+B+C still puts Better ahead, and substantially so if there's no appraisal. In addition, I understand I should probably be asking for title services to be handled by a 3rd party, and hope they'll end up being equivalent across LEs. Is the real answer just that Better doesn't charge origination fees, and therefore will win out over LD unless LD drastically reduces its fees, say by crediting all points? I was actually expecting LD to beat Better's quote. Of course, this could all be different by tomorrow.

Oh, and I forgot to say, E is under $300. It's not making my decision. I think the refinance is worth it if I can lock in the rate.
Better doesn't charge an origination fee, and LD does, so in order for LD's pricing to be better, they need to charge that much less in points (or more in lender credit) for a given interest rate.

A few other comments:
- Most people on here would recommend not paying points. In most cases you are better off taking a higher rate with enough lender credit to offset your closing costs.
- Did you apply anywhere else except Better and LD? Better doesn't usually give great offers upfront; they only become competitive when you get another competitive offer and ask them to beat it. LD is very hit or miss. I've talked to 3 LOs at LD. One was very competitive, one was very uncompetitive, and one was rude. LD also tends to be better when you ask them to beat another offer.
- If they operate in your state, I would recommend submitting an application with LenderFi. You can also check pricing on their site, but their actually pricing will be significantly better than what the site shows (around 0.25%). If Loan Cabin operates in your state, they will probably be the most competitive; their website rates will give you a good idea of what to expect.
Xrayman69
Posts: 637
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Xrayman69 »

presto987 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:27 pm
JASchneider68 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:35 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:58 pmYes, so if comparing offer 1 or offer 2, then you can ignore it. However, if you are deciding whether to refi or not, then you should include it as it is a cost you otherwise wouldn’t need to pay. In some states, this can be thousands of dollars.

Thus, in the end, it’s easier to always say A + B + C + E - credits as it correct for all cases.
Thanks for the feedback. Comparing A+B+C still puts Better ahead, and substantially so if there's no appraisal. In addition, I understand I should probably be asking for title services to be handled by a 3rd party, and hope they'll end up being equivalent across LEs. Is the real answer just that Better doesn't charge origination fees, and therefore will win out over LD unless LD drastically reduces its fees, say by crediting all points? I was actually expecting LD to beat Better's quote. Of course, this could all be different by tomorrow.

Oh, and I forgot to say, E is under $300. It's not making my decision. I think the refinance is worth it if I can lock in the rate.
Better doesn't charge an origination fee, and LD does, so in order for LD's pricing to be better, they need to charge that much less in points (or more in lender credit) for a given interest rate.

A few other comments:
- Most people on here would recommend not paying points. In most cases you are better off taking a higher rate with enough lender credit to offset your closing costs.
- Did you apply anywhere else except Better and LD? Better doesn't usually give great offers upfront; they only become competitive when you get another competitive offer and ask them to beat it. LD is very hit or miss. I've talked to 3 LOs at LD. One was very competitive, one was very uncompetitive, and one was rude. LD also tends to be better when you ask them to beat another offer.
- If they operate in your state, I would recommend submitting an application with LenderFi. You can also check pricing on their site, but their actually pricing will be significantly better than what the site shows (around 0.25%). If Loan Cabin operates in your state, they will probably be the most competitive; their website rates will give you a good idea of what to expect.
Considering looking into “Better” for a second no cost refinance if lower rates. What is the formal name of “better” or what is the direct link to website. How long after closing with LD would I have to wait. Just signed paperwork with LD yesterday at 2.25% conventional loan for 15 years with first mortgage payment for December 1.
mceagle555
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mceagle555 »

vapro10s wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:04 pm
mceagle555 wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:46 pm
mceagle555 wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:20 pm
mceagle555 wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:57 pm Thanks to everyone's advice in this thread. Just locked with Better today. Details below if it helps everyone:

- 15yr Ref @ 2.125% (Could have gotten 2.0% with no lender credit)
- $460k Loan Amount
- Appraisal waived (57% LTV)
- Shopped for Title Services - $950 w/ Radian
- No escrow

Loan Costs (A+B+C+D+E-Lender Credit) = -$1200

Summary:

- Refinanced from 15-yr @ 2.375% to 15-yr @ 2.125%
- Pocketed $1,200
- Removed escrow allowing that money to grow interest for me
Update re: above refi from Better.com:

10/10: Application
10/10-12: Match competing rates
10/13: Rate Lock
10/13: All "tasks" completed
10/14: Title report ordered
10/19: Title report cleared

No word on final closing date yet, but I have checked my "task list" daily and never let a task sit for more than 12 hours.
Couple more updates on my timeline from Better Mortgage:

10/10: Application
10/10-12: Match competing lender rates
10/13: Rate Lock
10/13: All "tasks" completed
10/13: Got competing title quote from Radian & asked Better to match
10/14: Title report ordered from Better's Title Company (Processing agent thought they could match Radian's quote)
10/19: Title report cleared Better's Title Company
10/21: Processing agent tells me they can't match Radian's price, so they restart title work, now ordering from Radian
10/22: Radian returns title work
10/23: Radian title report cleared

-----------
mceagle555, Congratulations you are doing well!.

In contrast to your results, I have a refi application in with Better where

Refi from 3.375% 30-year to 2.75% 15-year
loan amount $241,000
Appraisal Waived (68% LTV)
Shopped Title Services and have at $944
Was told have to escrow because we have flood insurance

A+B+C+D+E= 2,659 - 4,883 = $2,224 back towards escrows

Will have an escrow account wash due to old lender escrow funds received back to fund new escrow account.

Since applying in early mid-September I feel rates have moved but do not have another LE to bring to better to match.
Glad have this going now to skip governments upcoming .5% NEW tax but wishing I was on the ball this summer for AMEX $2,500 promotion.

I think to get your 2.125%, I remember a cost of $812? Our credit scores were above 800

What do you think? Any advice.

Thanks for Reading my 1st post.
@vapro10s - My comments in no particular order:

1. Your Title Services amount looks good (Mine was $900)
2. Your 2.75% 15-yr rate is really high. I'm guessing you just got a quote from Better.com and didn't have them match anyone. I would get a LE from Loan Cabin (if they are in your state) and/or LenderFi. Take those to Better and have them match. LC is currently in the 1.99% range for 15-yr
3. Good that your appraisal is waived
4. Bummer you have to do escrow with the new company, but it's not the worst thing in the world. You lose the ability to earn interest on the funds if you managed them yourself, but you gain the ease of use of the new company paying things.
5. My credit score when pulled was above 800 as well. Get a competing rate for Better to match.
presto987
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

Xrayman69 wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:00 am Considering looking into “Better” for a second no cost refinance if lower rates. What is the formal name of “better” or what is the direct link to website. How long after closing with LD would I have to wait. Just signed paperwork with LD yesterday at 2.25% conventional loan for 15 years with first mortgage payment for December 1.
It’s better.com. But as I mentioned above, they are not going to give you a great rate at the outset.

If you want to beat 2.25%, which is an excellent rate, I think Loan Cabin is your best option if they are licensed in your state. If not, there is a chance that LenderFi might be at 2.125, but I don’t know.
JASchneider68
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JASchneider68 »

presto987 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:27 pm Better doesn't charge an origination fee, and LD does, so in order for LD's pricing to be better, they need to charge that much less in points (or more in lender credit) for a given interest rate.

A few other comments:
- Most people on here would recommend not paying points. In most cases you are better off taking a higher rate with enough lender credit to offset your closing costs.
- Did you apply anywhere else except Better and LD? Better doesn't usually give great offers upfront; they only become competitive when you get another competitive offer and ask them to beat it. LD is very hit or miss. I've talked to 3 LOs at LD. One was very competitive, one was very uncompetitive, and one was rude. LD also tends to be better when you ask them to beat another offer.
- If they operate in your state, I would recommend submitting an application with LenderFi. You can also check pricing on their site, but their actually pricing will be significantly better than what the site shows (around 0.25%). If Loan Cabin operates in your state, they will probably be the most competitive; their website rates will give you a good idea of what to expect.
Thanks.

#1 Yes, what you say resonates with my thinking. That said, I also still need to talk with the Better LO, and see about an appraisal waiver. I have this already from LD. Better says it would be credited if determined I didn't need one, and only after a hard credit pull.

Also been trying to get a quote from LenderFi (and as I write this, I may finally have a response, so TBD). Those 3 and Suntrust (who holds my current loan, and who I dislike and hasn't responded to me, so I've decided against) and my local CU, who can't compete at all.

I wish LC served Oregon, but no. So I think it's down to Better, LD, or LenderFi for me.

I was thinking going for 2.5% with points (around 1) would make sense if we don't intend to move anytime soon, but will consider the idea of going for a higher rate and trying to completely offset costs.
z0r
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:50 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by z0r »

presto987 wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:08 pm
z0r wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:20 pm any recommendations for a cash-out refinance on a small loan in oregon? current loan is 80k on 300k value and I want a new loan at 140k. better would do it but the fees were too high to make it worth it, and lenderfi isn't doing cash out right now and "not any time soon" (from an email from them)
You should probably talk to a local mortgage broker. Also see if you can find a local bank or credit union that has decent rates. Among the national lenders, maybe try LoanDepot (if you're willing to wait 2-3 months to close)?
update, I think loandepot will work. their rates were initially worse than better (have to add their origination fee when comparing to better's "no fee" but worse points system to make it apples to apples). but after a military discount they beat better by a little

I'm going to break with the "conventional boglehead wisdom" on points. Points are simply a way for you and the lender to signal to each other what the true time horizon for your loan is. Of course in a falling rate environment the conventional wisdom is going to tell you to never pay points (= zero time horizon, let's refinance next week). Rates won't fall forever and not everyone has the same time horizon. And for a small loan there's no hiding the fact that there are significant one-time costs that need to be paid, whether it's built into the rate or in points/fees, so my real time horizon is at least 3-5 years and I do plan on keeping the loan that long. So I'm going to pay about 1% in points/fees for a payoff (on loan depot's scale) of about four years.
KB8KB24
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by KB8KB24 »

I am closing in on 90 days after lock with Loan Cabin! It takes them FOREVER to respond to anything. Please do not use them.
bws
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:54 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bws »

Can anyone recommend competitive lenders in NY other than Better?

I need someone else to get Better's quote down.

Thanks
mceagle555
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mceagle555 »

Update on by Better.com timeline. (These guys are quick and excellent communicators)

If all goes according to plan, that will be 18 days from rate lock to closing; 21 days from application to closing; 26 days from application to loan funding.

10/10: Application
10/10-12: Match competing lender rates
10/13: Rate Lock
10/13: All "tasks" completed
10/13: Got competing title quote from Radian & asked Better to match
10/14: Title report ordered from Better's Title Company (Processing agent thought they could match Radian's quote)
10/19: Title report cleared Better's Title Company
10/21: Processing agent tells me they can't match Radian's price, so they restart title work, now ordering from Radian
10/22: Radian returns title work
10/23: Radian title report cleared
10/26: Closing Expert assigned
10/27: Initial Closing Disclosure received
10/30: Scheduled closing date
11/4: Projected loan funding date
Post Reply