Refinance Mega Thread

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sapphire96
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sapphire96 »

Xrayman69 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:13 pm
sapphire96 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:33 pm
JBTX wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:29 pm Got a quote from loan depot today. Cash out, total loan $225k, 15 year, $1500 in points, $5100 fees (TX) 2.375%.

30 year adds almost half point to interest rate, not worth it for me.

Current loan is 15 year 3.25%

This seems like a no brainer to me, unless I can get better.

Any experience with loan depot?
I am refinancing through Loan Depot. Very positive experience so far and their 15 year rates are very competitive to the market. Expecting to close within the next few weeks.
Sapphire96,

When did you start your process?

I’m also working with LD and started around August 10. No word or communication following the first week.

Thanks
My first communications with them were around August 5/6th. Locked in my rate on 8/7. My loan officer told me it would be between 30 and 45 days from when the loan locked to closing. If you’d like, send me a PM and I can give you the loan officer that I’m working with, who is fantastic and provides competitive quotes (at least for a 15 year) from the get-go.
Keep interest as your friend, not your foe. | Use money as a tool for bettering your life, not squandering it. | Stay the course, don’t deviate from it.
ZMonet
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Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ZMonet »

I need to get in touch with Watermark today. Any thoughts on this before I contact them? My biggest question would be should I be concerned about the difference in APR (2.46% and 2.25%).

ZMonet wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:39 pm
ZMonet wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:22 pm I could really use some help with my Watermark loan: 2.25% interest rate for 10 years.

My current lender is showing a payoff amount of $233k.
My loan amount with Watermark is for $235k.

A+B+C+E = $2700
Lender Credits = $2900

What I am confused about is the amount that I need to bring to closing, which is $13k -- $6k for 12 months of homeowner's insurance, 6 months of property taxes, and a small amount of prepaid interest ($300) PLUS another $7k for 3 months of homeowner's insurance and 12 months of property taxes (so a total of 15 months homeowner's insurance and 18 months of property taxes!).

MY QUESTIONS:
[1] Is it standard to ask for prepaid of 6 months property tax and 12 months insurance as well as initial escrow of 3 months home owner's insurance and property taxes of 12 months?
[2] My old lender just paid my home owner's insurance for the year on 8/24, so why is Watermark asking for another 12 months?
[3] Should I be concerned about the difference in the payoff amount ($233k) and the loan amount ($235k)?
[4] If my loan rate is 2.25% and A+B+C+E <$0, why is my APR 2.46%?

Or should I not stress too much about F & G as long as A+B+C+E - lender credits < $0 since I'll get the money back anyway? Bringing $13k to the closing table is doable, although it will take a little movement of funds.

Any input much appreciated.
I did a little more digging and it looks like my property taxes are due in two installments, one basically right now and one in December. It seems like Watermark is asking for those upfront even though before closing my current lender will likely pay the first installment. Also, as I mentioned, my current lender already paid the homeowner's insurance for the year.

Should I not focus on those issues and just know that it will sort out in the end? Any thoughts on my other questions?
nic3456
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Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

Anyone have stats/guesses at how many lenders use the newer 45 day rule of mortgage shopping vs the old scoring of 14 days for credit impacts?
Bird33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Bird33 »

I wanted to thank all those on the board for the invaluable information in regards to securing a great deal. I also went with LenderFi, locked on 8-4 and blew thru the rate lock on 9-2. My loan processor has been mostly MIA but loan officer has been responsive every time I reach out to him. He assures me my rate is good and should be closing soon. Going from a 4.125% to 2.5% 20 year with about $300 in total costs after all said and done.
gg1908
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Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:25 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gg1908 »

e5116 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:06 pm
gg1908 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:41 pm Hello, first post ever on Bogleheads.

I am in my first Refi (current 30yr @ 3.5%). I was tracking rates at Ally (pre-approved but not locked), when I read on this forum about Lenderfi. Today I saw a good rate at Ally and went to compare with Lenderfi. Lenderfi looked better and so I applied. During the application it gave me a quote (3% with almost no fees) and I thought that by applying they would pull the scores and lock the rate if I agreed. Instead, after I applied I was told that it will take 2-3 days to review the application and the rate will be the live rate as of that date.
Is this the regular process? Was my expectation unrealistic? It seems that Ally would lock the rate if I give permission to pull my score.
Also, since they pulled my scores, should I apply to other lenders before the inquiry hits my credit score? (e.g. using bankrate or zillow)

Thanks!
Yes it's standard practice to give you the "live rate" at time of locking and not what the website gave you when you initially filled out your information. Some are faster than others. And the rate might be even better than what you saw -- but could be worse.
Thanks for the reply! One more questions: if I want to shop at different lenders, should I lock the rate, or should I only get an estimate from one and then go to another and see if he can beat it?
e5116
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:22 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by e5116 »

gg1908 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:02 am
e5116 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:06 pm
gg1908 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:41 pm Hello, first post ever on Bogleheads.

I am in my first Refi (current 30yr @ 3.5%). I was tracking rates at Ally (pre-approved but not locked), when I read on this forum about Lenderfi. Today I saw a good rate at Ally and went to compare with Lenderfi. Lenderfi looked better and so I applied. During the application it gave me a quote (3% with almost no fees) and I thought that by applying they would pull the scores and lock the rate if I agreed. Instead, after I applied I was told that it will take 2-3 days to review the application and the rate will be the live rate as of that date.
Is this the regular process? Was my expectation unrealistic? It seems that Ally would lock the rate if I give permission to pull my score.
Also, since they pulled my scores, should I apply to other lenders before the inquiry hits my credit score? (e.g. using bankrate or zillow)

Thanks!
Yes it's standard practice to give you the "live rate" at time of locking and not what the website gave you when you initially filled out your information. Some are faster than others. And the rate might be even better than what you saw -- but could be worse.
Thanks for the reply! One more questions: if I want to shop at different lenders, should I lock the rate, or should I only get an estimate from one and then go to another and see if he can beat it?
I'll defer to others on that one as I personally don't have experience locking at multiple lenders at the same time....Seems like people take different approaches. But if you don't have it locked, you might not get that rate. If you can shop around Loan Estimates quickly though, perhaps it's okay. So, I would probably get LE and see if somebody can beat it quickly. Then, lock with best offer. Seems like some people above have indeed locked with more than one party. My lender frowns upon that majorly and gave a good rate, so I went forward with it.
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pianos101
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pianos101 »

nic3456 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:00 am Anyone have stats/guesses at how many lenders use the newer 45 day rule of mortgage shopping vs the old scoring of 14 days for credit impacts?
I imagine this is a credit bureau rule, not a lender rule. The lender just reports that they inquired.
ossipago
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ossipago »

pianos101 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:47 am
nic3456 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:00 am Anyone have stats/guesses at how many lenders use the newer 45 day rule of mortgage shopping vs the old scoring of 14 days for credit impacts?
I imagine this is a credit bureau rule, not a lender rule. The lender just reports that they inquired.
I believe this is dependent on the scoring model used. I think the lender chooses which score to obtain; the credit bureaus then run the score as per their formulas (14-day for older scoring models, 45-day for the newest ones).
3of10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

ossipago wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:23 am My wife and I are wrestling with a dilemma regarding amortization period. We are about 2 years into a $624K mortgage (HCOL conforming @ 3.85%). We are looking into a no-cost refinance, and debating whether to reset the existing balance (about 600K after some extra payments) at 30 years or 25 years.

My gut says to shorten the amortization period. Her concern is that the we would be paying almost $300 a month more under the 25-year scenario, and she wonders if giving up the payment flexibility is worth it. We'd accrue $1000 more in principal under the 25 year scenario over 1 year, and it increases slowly from there. In the case where the interest rates are identical for the two loans, is there any advantage to going with a 25-year mortgage? We max out tax-advantage space and can afford either payment, so that's not an issue. I guess I'm struggling to understand what advantages the 25-year presents in this case.
When I had to make that decision years ago, I focused on job security. My megacorp was laying off people, so I went with the lower monthly amount (30 yr) in case I no longer had a job. I could always make additional principal payments if I wanted to reduce the # of years.

In addition to what I've mentioned above, it also depends on the difference between the 25 yr and 30 yr rates, and a comparison between the monthly mortgage payments between the two. If there's not much difference, then go with the 25 yr rate. Also, check out the 20 yr loan to see if it offers a lower rate and/or better lender credits.
3of10
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:37 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

Shikoku wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:13 am
jco wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:58 am
fluxcap111955 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:51 am - Any alternatives to Radian Title? I know I can do better than LoanDepot's default title and I used Radian in December. However, Radian mentioned they are not doing loans with LoanDepot due to covid -- very strange.
Does anyone here know if Radian Title works with better.com?
Yes.
+1. I'm currently using Radian for my Better refi. I asked Radian to give me the title price quote that they provide for Better, and I received a better quote from them. Don't know if the Better "quote" is still available.
no_username
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:16 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by no_username »

ZMonet wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:42 am I need to get in touch with Watermark today. Any thoughts on this before I contact them? My biggest question would be should I be concerned about the difference in APR (2.46% and 2.25%).

ZMonet wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:39 pm
ZMonet wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:22 pm I could really use some help with my Watermark loan: 2.25% interest rate for 10 years.

My current lender is showing a payoff amount of $233k.
My loan amount with Watermark is for $235k.

A+B+C+E = $2700
Lender Credits = $2900

What I am confused about is the amount that I need to bring to closing, which is $13k -- $6k for 12 months of homeowner's insurance, 6 months of property taxes, and a small amount of prepaid interest ($300) PLUS another $7k for 3 months of homeowner's insurance and 12 months of property taxes (so a total of 15 months homeowner's insurance and 18 months of property taxes!).

MY QUESTIONS:
[1] Is it standard to ask for prepaid of 6 months property tax and 12 months insurance as well as initial escrow of 3 months home owner's insurance and property taxes of 12 months?
[2] My old lender just paid my home owner's insurance for the year on 8/24, so why is Watermark asking for another 12 months?
[3] Should I be concerned about the difference in the payoff amount ($233k) and the loan amount ($235k)?
[4] If my loan rate is 2.25% and A+B+C+E <$0, why is my APR 2.46%?

Or should I not stress too much about F & G as long as A+B+C+E - lender credits < $0 since I'll get the money back anyway? Bringing $13k to the closing table is doable, although it will take a little movement of funds.

Any input much appreciated.
I did a little more digging and it looks like my property taxes are due in two installments, one basically right now and one in December. It seems like Watermark is asking for those upfront even though before closing my current lender will likely pay the first installment. Also, as I mentioned, my current lender already paid the homeowner's insurance for the year.

Should I not focus on those issues and just know that it will sort out in the end? Any thoughts on my other questions?
They don't include credit into APR so your loan cost is A+B+C=$2400
You can calculate APR here
https://www.calculator.net/apr-calculat ... generalapr
Brain
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

LPCes81 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:58 pm
Brain wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:17 pm
Brain wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:13 am In reply to some folks asking about the Better/Amex deal:

I applied to Better prior to having an Amex card. I applied for the Cash Magnet card (1.5% universal cask back) subsequently. I mentioned this to the processor and she just asked me to send her the card number once I got it.

Better asked me about all the other credit pulls on my report, whether they were for mortgage shopping, but didn't ask about the Amex pull.

Upon reading about the "link" from Amex to apply, I visited it and clicked it, but it simply said my request was submitted, nothing terribly informative.

A couple of days after closing, I got the same email multiple people have mentioned, "Congratulations on funding your loan, Brain! You can expect your American Express® statement credit to be applied to your account within 8-12 weeks."

I've checked the Better site daily since closing and today there was the task others have mentioned, asking me to input the last five digits of my card number.

I did happen to use the same email address for both Better and Amex, but I only really use the one email account, so that wasn't hard to coordinate.

Since I just got the card, I've only racked up a couple of hundred dollars on it. Since it's "only" 1.5% cash back, I'm only using it where better cash back bonuses wouldn't apply.

I'm pleased to hear reports that the credit will be applied even to low-balance cards.

I'll comment again when I see the credit.
For everyone who's been waiting with baited breath, today is the day! I just checked Quicken and a line item of "BETTER MORTGAGE CREDIT" for $2,500 just showed up on my Amex card.

I only had a balance of $256.57, so now I have a surplus of $2,243.43! I thought I remember seeing someone say something about being able to cash out the credit on a low-balance card. Anyone know the mechanics of that?

For posterity:

The timeline:

June 16: locked with Better
June 23: cleared to close
July 8: closing
Sept 2: get Amex credit (exactly 8 weeks)

I just looked at my Amex account and it's saying the credit posted on Aug. 17. But Quicken has loaded events that happened after that. Odd.
I'm still waiting to close with Better since Late July. I got a $3700 lender credit because they wanted to beat Lenderfi. I never heard of a $2500 Amex credit until now but is that on top of other credits?
The Amex credit was a deal offered by Quicken Loans and Better. If you started an application by July 25th and close by some time in October and have an Amex card, Amex will give you a $2,500 credit to your card balance. This is completely separate from the lender credits on the loan itself. Talk to your Better rep and ask if you can apply for the Amex credit. If you applied with Better before July 25 and had an Amex card (not an affiliate like an airline or hotel card) by then, you might be eligible.
Hoosier CPA
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Hoosier CPA »

Brain wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:01 pm
LPCes81 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:58 pm
Brain wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:17 pm
Brain wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:13 am In reply to some folks asking about the Better/Amex deal:

I applied to Better prior to having an Amex card. I applied for the Cash Magnet card (1.5% universal cask back) subsequently. I mentioned this to the processor and she just asked me to send her the card number once I got it.

Better asked me about all the other credit pulls on my report, whether they were for mortgage shopping, but didn't ask about the Amex pull.

Upon reading about the "link" from Amex to apply, I visited it and clicked it, but it simply said my request was submitted, nothing terribly informative.

A couple of days after closing, I got the same email multiple people have mentioned, "Congratulations on funding your loan, Brain! You can expect your American Express® statement credit to be applied to your account within 8-12 weeks."

I've checked the Better site daily since closing and today there was the task others have mentioned, asking me to input the last five digits of my card number.

I did happen to use the same email address for both Better and Amex, but I only really use the one email account, so that wasn't hard to coordinate.

Since I just got the card, I've only racked up a couple of hundred dollars on it. Since it's "only" 1.5% cash back, I'm only using it where better cash back bonuses wouldn't apply.

I'm pleased to hear reports that the credit will be applied even to low-balance cards.

I'll comment again when I see the credit.
For everyone who's been waiting with baited breath, today is the day! I just checked Quicken and a line item of "BETTER MORTGAGE CREDIT" for $2,500 just showed up on my Amex card.

I only had a balance of $256.57, so now I have a surplus of $2,243.43! I thought I remember seeing someone say something about being able to cash out the credit on a low-balance card. Anyone know the mechanics of that?

For posterity:

The timeline:

June 16: locked with Better
June 23: cleared to close
July 8: closing
Sept 2: get Amex credit (exactly 8 weeks)

I just looked at my Amex account and it's saying the credit posted on Aug. 17. But Quicken has loaded events that happened after that. Odd.
I'm still waiting to close with Better since Late July. I got a $3700 lender credit because they wanted to beat Lenderfi. I never heard of a $2500 Amex credit until now but is that on top of other credits?
The Amex credit was a deal offered by Quicken Loans and Better. If you started an application by July 25th and close by some time in October and have an Amex card, Amex will give you a $2,500 credit to your card balance. This is completely separate from the lender credits on the loan itself. Talk to your Better rep and ask if you can apply for the Amex credit. If you applied with Better before July 25 and had an Amex card (not an affiliate like an airline or hotel card) by then, you might be eligible.
I was told by the initial salesguy at Better that my Hilton honors amex card was eligible. Is this not the case? I'm still working towards the finish line with Better.com. If not I have another Amex card I could use.
Familyman2012
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

LPCes81 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:00 pm
Familyman2012 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:28 pm Dilemma here.

Originally LC gave me a quote 2.65 20 years $3900 Lender credit.
Better match by $4000 Lender credit.

LC came back and match today. Looking at the better estimate. If I can get the appraisal waived which better did on my 1st refi. Better LE will adjust and be better than LC by $500.

Would you go with better or LC?
I’m thinking go with better because it’s more money in my pocket($500 more)

Or do you think I will burn bridges with LC since they usually give the best rates. Better initial LE was trash. Don’t want to burn bridges with them if i refi again later this year or next.
What would you do?
Thanks
Sorry who is LC? I'm waiting on Better to close it keeps getting delayed because their title company is slow apparently. I want to refinance my parents mortgage as well hence why I asked who is LC in case I can find them a good rate. Thanks.
Loan Cabin
They’re really busy at this time. So if you apply. You might not hear back for a few weeks. Plus it’s 60days to close. They do offer the best rates/lender credit though.IMO
traveler00
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:24 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by traveler00 »

Does anyone have recommendations on refinance lenders for commercial properties?
fluxcap111955
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:56 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by fluxcap111955 »

Not sure if this has occurred with anyone else, but Better had me pay the appraisal fee as a deposit at the time of rate lock even though my appraisal is likely to be waived. Is this common with Better? If I walk away am I out the appraisal fee deposit?
finestlittlemexican
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:47 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by finestlittlemexican »

First post on Bogleheads, but really loved the book.

I'm about to jump on a refinance option but I wasn't sure about the practice of rolling over my G. Initial Escrow Payment at Closing which is moved into the loan as a lump sum. Is this standard practice? I'm confused on how the closing costs are $7,771, yet the Estimated Cash to Close is $871.
I'm also interested in how folks are getting the no costs refi at 2.875%? for 30 years..that sounds exactly what I would want.

Any help is much appreciated.

Here are the details.
30 yr, 2.875% rate conventional loan. I want to lower my monthly mortgage by removing my PMI and giving me an option of renting this house out in the future.

A+B+C = $2,435

E = $115
F = $358
G = $5,382

I = $5,855
J= $7,771

Lender credit of $519
Adjustment and other credits of $500

The Estimated Cash to Close is $871

Thank you
Last edited by finestlittlemexican on Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Brain
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

Hoosier CPA wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:13 pm
Brain wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:01 pm
LPCes81 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:58 pm
Brain wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:17 pm
Brain wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:13 am In reply to some folks asking about the Better/Amex deal:

I applied to Better prior to having an Amex card. I applied for the Cash Magnet card (1.5% universal cask back) subsequently. I mentioned this to the processor and she just asked me to send her the card number once I got it.

Better asked me about all the other credit pulls on my report, whether they were for mortgage shopping, but didn't ask about the Amex pull.

Upon reading about the "link" from Amex to apply, I visited it and clicked it, but it simply said my request was submitted, nothing terribly informative.

A couple of days after closing, I got the same email multiple people have mentioned, "Congratulations on funding your loan, Brain! You can expect your American Express® statement credit to be applied to your account within 8-12 weeks."

I've checked the Better site daily since closing and today there was the task others have mentioned, asking me to input the last five digits of my card number.

I did happen to use the same email address for both Better and Amex, but I only really use the one email account, so that wasn't hard to coordinate.

Since I just got the card, I've only racked up a couple of hundred dollars on it. Since it's "only" 1.5% cash back, I'm only using it where better cash back bonuses wouldn't apply.

I'm pleased to hear reports that the credit will be applied even to low-balance cards.

I'll comment again when I see the credit.
For everyone who's been waiting with baited breath, today is the day! I just checked Quicken and a line item of "BETTER MORTGAGE CREDIT" for $2,500 just showed up on my Amex card.

I only had a balance of $256.57, so now I have a surplus of $2,243.43! I thought I remember seeing someone say something about being able to cash out the credit on a low-balance card. Anyone know the mechanics of that?

For posterity:

The timeline:

June 16: locked with Better
June 23: cleared to close
July 8: closing
Sept 2: get Amex credit (exactly 8 weeks)

I just looked at my Amex account and it's saying the credit posted on Aug. 17. But Quicken has loaded events that happened after that. Odd.
I'm still waiting to close with Better since Late July. I got a $3700 lender credit because they wanted to beat Lenderfi. I never heard of a $2500 Amex credit until now but is that on top of other credits?
The Amex credit was a deal offered by Quicken Loans and Better. If you started an application by July 25th and close by some time in October and have an Amex card, Amex will give you a $2,500 credit to your card balance. This is completely separate from the lender credits on the loan itself. Talk to your Better rep and ask if you can apply for the Amex credit. If you applied with Better before July 25 and had an Amex card (not an affiliate like an airline or hotel card) by then, you might be eligible.
I was told by the initial salesguy at Better that my Hilton honors amex card was eligible. Is this not the case? I'm still working towards the finish line with Better.com. If not I have another Amex card I could use.
Every time I've heard it mentioned, it was quite clear that it had to be a straight-Amex branded card. Your Better rep should be able to confirm.
Familyman2012
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

fluxcap111955 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:49 pm Not sure if this has occurred with anyone else, but Better had me pay the appraisal fee as a deposit at the time of rate lock even though my appraisal is likely to be waived. Is this common with Better? If I walk away am I out the appraisal fee deposit?
That is normal. They will refund your $550 during closing. This is if you qualify for the waiver.

Even if you walk away. Since no appraisal was done. It’s refundable.
The task that you had to enter your credit card info, below that had some FAQ that explained it.
Last edited by Familyman2012 on Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Brain
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

wootwoot wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:59 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:37 pm
Brain wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:17 pm I thought I remember seeing someone say something about being able to cash out the credit on a low-balance card. Anyone know the mechanics of that?
It's hidden in the Disputes section. Go to Account Services and follow the links like you were disputing a charge. One of the options is to request a credit balance refund.
https://www.americanexpress.com/us/cust ... efund.html

Did this today on my phone.
Perfect! Thanks!
Familyman2012
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

Brain wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:10 pm
wootwoot wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:59 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:37 pm
Brain wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:17 pm I thought I remember seeing someone say something about being able to cash out the credit on a low-balance card. Anyone know the mechanics of that?
It's hidden in the Disputes section. Go to Account Services and follow the links like you were disputing a charge. One of the options is to request a credit balance refund.
https://www.americanexpress.com/us/cust ... efund.html

Did this today on my phone.
Perfect! Thanks!
I can confirm that’s the process. I spoke to an Amex rep yesterday.
Close on July 14th. Received credit on 9/2.
gazelle1991
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:20 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gazelle1991 »

Shikoku wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:41 pm
gazelle1991 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:48 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:54 pm
gazelle1991 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:54 pm I did a cashout refinance in early August. People said I would have to wait 6 months before I am able to do a rate-and-term. However, when I chat with LenderFi, they said no problem, I can do a rate-and-term on their end without waiting so I got the payoff statement, locked in the rate at 2.75% 30 year no cost closing (lender credit covers everything except escrow).

Too good to be true? Now just waiting for closing. Hopefully, this goes off smoothly.
I truly mean this - not being facetious... Good luck during the title search and underwriting. Somehow, there is some miscommunication as Fannie Mae likely won’t buy the loan from them with it set up as a rate-and-term refi. But I honestly wish you the best and hope it squeaks through.
If that's the case, hopefully rate stays low 6 months from now so I can refinance. I am sitting at a steep 3.625% right now so I can't wait to refi to lower that.
If I were you, I would lock and start the process as long as I need not to pay anything upfront. I am not hiding anything. I will double check with the LO though before proceeding -- at least I will have e-mail record of the discussion. If at some point they say that it cannot be done at the promised rate, you ask them to honor the LE. In the worst case, you cancel and start later.
Yea that makes sense. Nothing out of pocket so doesn't hurt to start the process. I did double check with them twice, one via email and one during the phone call. They never responded to the question via email but said no problem in the call. I will try emailing again to double check.
therealhunter
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:08 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by therealhunter »

Familyman2012 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:09 pm
fluxcap111955 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:49 pm Not sure if this has occurred with anyone else, but Better had me pay the appraisal fee as a deposit at the time of rate lock even though my appraisal is likely to be waived. Is this common with Better? If I walk away am I out the appraisal fee deposit?
That is normal. They will refund your $550 during closing. This is if you qualify for the waiver.

Even if you walk away. Since no appraisal was done. It’s refundable.
The task that you had to enter your credit card info, below that had some FAQ that explained it.
Yes. I paid around $550 appraisal fee as the deposit and they refunded me immediately when I backed out. You just need to make sure you don't fall into their trap of scheduling the appraisal appointment(if it's not waived) because the appraiser would keep reaching out to once you pay the deposit :)
zeal4thil
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 10:55 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by zeal4thil »

Hello Guys

My current outstanding balance is 306k .I am currently on 15 year 2.875% (refinanced 5 months back from a 30 year 3.25%) .

I have the following offer from my Mortgage broker

15 year no cost Refin @2.375%
30 Year No Cost Refin @ 2.75%

I can afford both but the 30 year looks very lucrative as the difference is almost 750 per month and if i want to invest that i should easily look for 10-12 k per year in the long run which should give me some cushion later in the life .but i started with 30 year 4.5% 2 years back and now don't want to go back to 30 year again emotionally .

so the question i need help from you guys is is it worth going for 15 year just for 0.375% or worthy incurring that 100 per month etc in interest to have a flexibility of 750 per month cash flow .

Please advise
Shikoku
Posts: 406
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:01 pm
Location: USA

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Shikoku »

therealhunter wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:54 pm
Familyman2012 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:09 pm
fluxcap111955 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:49 pm Not sure if this has occurred with anyone else, but Better had me pay the appraisal fee as a deposit at the time of rate lock even though my appraisal is likely to be waived. Is this common with Better? If I walk away am I out the appraisal fee deposit?
That is normal. They will refund your $550 during closing. This is if you qualify for the waiver.

Even if you walk away. Since no appraisal was done. It’s refundable.
The task that you had to enter your credit card info, below that had some FAQ that explained it.
Yes. I paid around $550 appraisal fee as the deposit and they refunded me immediately when I backed out. You just need to make sure you don't fall into their trap of scheduling the appraisal appointment(if it's not waived) because the appraiser would keep reaching out to once you pay the deposit :)
Long time back, I paid appraisal fee and then the deal got soured a month later and ultimately the loan did not close. It was too much to fight for $450 or so dollars. So it was a loss.
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett
mega317
Posts: 4582
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:55 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mega317 »

zeal4thil wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:06 pm Hello Guys

My current outstanding balance is 306k .I am currently on 15 year 2.875% (refinanced 5 months back from a 30 year 3.25%) .

I have the following offer from my Mortgage broker

15 year no cost Refin @2.375%
30 Year No Cost Refin @ 2.75%

I can afford both but the 30 year looks very lucrative as the difference is almost 750 per month and if i want to invest that i should easily look for 10-12 k per year in the long run which should give me some cushion later in the life .but i started with 30 year 4.5% 2 years back and now don't want to go back to 30 year again emotionally .

so the question i need help from you guys is is it worth going for 15 year just for 0.375% or worthy incurring that 100 per month etc in interest to have a flexibility of 750 per month cash flow .

Please advise
Not everyone would but hell yeah I'd do a no cost refi to save 0.5% that's like 15 grand difference. I would NOT go to a 30 year for the purpose of investing especially if you don't want to emotionally, no reason to worry yourself about it.
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6212
Hugo Township
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:51 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Hugo Township »

sapphire96 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:27 am
Xrayman69 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:13 pm
sapphire96 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:33 pm
JBTX wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:29 pm Got a quote from loan depot today. Cash out, total loan $225k, 15 year, $1500 in points, $5100 fees (TX) 2.375%.

30 year adds almost half point to interest rate, not worth it for me.

Current loan is 15 year 3.25%

This seems like a no brainer to me, unless I can get better.

Any experience with loan depot?
I am refinancing through Loan Depot. Very positive experience so far and their 15 year rates are very competitive to the market. Expecting to close within the next few weeks.
Sapphire96,

When did you start your process?

I’m also working with LD and started around August 10. No word or communication following the first week.

Thanks
My first communications with them were around August 5/6th. Locked in my rate on 8/7. My loan officer told me it would be between 30 and 45 days from when the loan locked to closing. If you’d like, send me a PM and I can give you the loan officer that I’m working with, who is fantastic and provides competitive quotes (at least for a 15 year) from the get-go.
That's so bizarre. I applied with Loan Depot and only got a response from a LO 9 days later. By that time I had already committed to moving forward with LenderFi. It seems that the experience with these companies is so variable.
User avatar
sapphire96
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:08 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sapphire96 »

Hugo Township wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:42 pm
sapphire96 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:27 am
Xrayman69 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:13 pm
sapphire96 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:33 pm
JBTX wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:29 pm Got a quote from loan depot today. Cash out, total loan $225k, 15 year, $1500 in points, $5100 fees (TX) 2.375%.

30 year adds almost half point to interest rate, not worth it for me.

Current loan is 15 year 3.25%

This seems like a no brainer to me, unless I can get better.

Any experience with loan depot?
I am refinancing through Loan Depot. Very positive experience so far and their 15 year rates are very competitive to the market. Expecting to close within the next few weeks.
Sapphire96,

When did you start your process?

I’m also working with LD and started around August 10. No word or communication following the first week.

Thanks
My first communications with them were around August 5/6th. Locked in my rate on 8/7. My loan officer told me it would be between 30 and 45 days from when the loan locked to closing. If you’d like, send me a PM and I can give you the loan officer that I’m working with, who is fantastic and provides competitive quotes (at least for a 15 year) from the get-go.
That's so bizarre. I applied with Loan Depot and only got a response from a LO 9 days later. By that time I had already committed to moving forward with LenderFi. It seems that the experience with these companies is so variable.
Generally I agree, but I think it really depends on who you get as a loan officer. That can make or break it... I was fortunate to get a good guy.
Keep interest as your friend, not your foe. | Use money as a tool for bettering your life, not squandering it. | Stay the course, don’t deviate from it.
no_username
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:16 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by no_username »

sapphire96 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:47 pm
Hugo Township wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:42 pm
sapphire96 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:27 am
Xrayman69 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:13 pm
sapphire96 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:33 pm

I am refinancing through Loan Depot. Very positive experience so far and their 15 year rates are very competitive to the market. Expecting to close within the next few weeks.
Sapphire96,

When did you start your process?

I’m also working with LD and started around August 10. No word or communication following the first week.

Thanks
My first communications with them were around August 5/6th. Locked in my rate on 8/7. My loan officer told me it would be between 30 and 45 days from when the loan locked to closing. If you’d like, send me a PM and I can give you the loan officer that I’m working with, who is fantastic and provides competitive quotes (at least for a 15 year) from the get-go.
That's so bizarre. I applied with Loan Depot and only got a response from a LO 9 days later. By that time I had already committed to moving forward with LenderFi. It seems that the experience with these companies is so variable.
Generally I agree, but I think it really depends on who you get as a loan officer. That can make or break it... I was fortunate to get a good guy.
Yes. It is like Uber. You don't know until you get in the car.
ZMonet
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ZMonet »

Thanks! That makes sense.
no_username wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:58 pm
ZMonet wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:42 am I need to get in touch with Watermark today. Any thoughts on this before I contact them? My biggest question would be should I be concerned about the difference in APR (2.46% and 2.25%).

ZMonet wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:39 pm
ZMonet wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:22 pm I could really use some help with my Watermark loan: 2.25% interest rate for 10 years.

My current lender is showing a payoff amount of $233k.
My loan amount with Watermark is for $235k.

A+B+C+E = $2700
Lender Credits = $2900

What I am confused about is the amount that I need to bring to closing, which is $13k -- $6k for 12 months of homeowner's insurance, 6 months of property taxes, and a small amount of prepaid interest ($300) PLUS another $7k for 3 months of homeowner's insurance and 12 months of property taxes (so a total of 15 months homeowner's insurance and 18 months of property taxes!).

MY QUESTIONS:
[1] Is it standard to ask for prepaid of 6 months property tax and 12 months insurance as well as initial escrow of 3 months home owner's insurance and property taxes of 12 months?
[2] My old lender just paid my home owner's insurance for the year on 8/24, so why is Watermark asking for another 12 months?
[3] Should I be concerned about the difference in the payoff amount ($233k) and the loan amount ($235k)?
[4] If my loan rate is 2.25% and A+B+C+E <$0, why is my APR 2.46%?

Or should I not stress too much about F & G as long as A+B+C+E - lender credits < $0 since I'll get the money back anyway? Bringing $13k to the closing table is doable, although it will take a little movement of funds.

Any input much appreciated.
I did a little more digging and it looks like my property taxes are due in two installments, one basically right now and one in December. It seems like Watermark is asking for those upfront even though before closing my current lender will likely pay the first installment. Also, as I mentioned, my current lender already paid the homeowner's insurance for the year.

Should I not focus on those issues and just know that it will sort out in the end? Any thoughts on my other questions?
They don't include credit into APR so your loan cost is A+B+C=$2400
You can calculate APR here
https://www.calculator.net/apr-calculat ... generalapr
Stinger72
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 5:21 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Stinger72 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:36 pm
Stinger72 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:26 pm I have a question regarding consolidating my 2 loans into a Home Equity Loan.
...
While we did consider a 15 year mortgage, we want a 30 year to give us flexibility on payment with concerns over potential upcoming layoffs or such... She went on to tell me that there wouldn't be closing costs on it, and the interest rate would be 3.5%.
There is no inherent problem with having a HEL instead of a mortgage, assuming you have good terms. It’s just that usually mortgages have better terms than HELs.

That all said, please be sure she actually meant no closing costs and didn’t mean no lender closing costs, i.e., Sections A and B in a Loan Estimate. Title insurance, settlement, and government costs would still apply if she was playing fast and loose and meant they won’t charge you any closing costs while carefully avoiding mention of third-party costs.
Thank you very much for your response. I checked and they do pay ALL fees, including 3rd party, with the stipulation that if I pay the loan off within 36 months, I am responsible to pay those fees. I find myself in an unexpected situation where I think I may bite on the the HEL instead of a 30 year fixed standard mortgage! Best rates I've found so far are:

2.875% 30 year fixed with about $9500 in fees/points
3% 30 year fixed with $6500 in closing costs

The other advantage is it will be much less paperwork and time to close out the loan. In figuring out the difference between the 3.5% HEL and the 30 year fixed that I referenced, we're looking at over a 6 year payback, and we are going to pay off the loan in 15 years or less. I never considered this as an option, but it really seems to be a good option for me. Closing costs in NY are very high.
AlD
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:02 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by AlD »

Refinancing with Better
On 8/21 locked @ 2.375% 15 year on $128,694 loan amount with a 24% LTV

They just transferred me from their Loan Processing Expert to their Loan Closing Expert. Today I pulled up my Loan Estimate on the website and noticed some changes.

It looks like they rolled all of the closing costs into the loan and in doing so, they reduced the points I would be paying from $925 (0.719% of loan amount) to $774 (0.588% of loan amount). I asked why the changes and received the following response:
I am not too sure why the loan amount changed since the change was not done by my team, but if you would like to decrease your loan amount back, feel free to let me know.
Original LE
A. $925 (0.719% of loan amount)
B. $614 ($550 of this was a loan appraisal fee which has since been waived and I was told will be refunded to my credit card shortly)
C. $910
D. 2,449 ($1,899 if you subtract the $550 appraisal fee)

E. $346
F. $1,948 ($1,821 prepaid taxes + $127 for 15 days interest)
G. No escrow
H. $0
J. Total Closing Costs = $4,743
Loan amount $128,694
Cash to close FROM borrower $2,775


Revised LE
A. $774 (0.588% of loan amount)
B. $64 (Appraisal fee of $550 was finally removed from LE)
C. $910
D. $1,748 (reflects removal of $550 appraisal fee)

E. $389
F. $1,951 ($1,821 prepaid taxes + $130 for 15 days interest)
G. No Escrow
H. $0
J. Total Closing Costs $4,088

Loan Amount $131,575
Estimated Cash to close TO Borrower $749

Questions:
1. If I ask them to not roll any costs into the loan (I offer to pay all closing costs out of pocket), can they change the points they charge back to the higher amount, even though I never asked them to roll all of the closing costs into the loan?
2. What would you do in this situation (finance the closing costs, or pay them upfront?). I have the cash on hand.
3of10
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:37 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

ZMonet wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:42 am I need to get in touch with Watermark today. Any thoughts on this before I contact them? My biggest question would be should I be concerned about the difference in APR (2.46% and 2.25%).

ZMonet wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:39 pm
ZMonet wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:22 pm I could really use some help with my Watermark loan: 2.25% interest rate for 10 years.

My current lender is showing a payoff amount of $233k.
My loan amount with Watermark is for $235k.

A+B+C+E = $2700
Lender Credits = $2900

What I am confused about is the amount that I need to bring to closing, which is $13k -- $6k for 12 months of homeowner's insurance, 6 months of property taxes, and a small amount of prepaid interest ($300) PLUS another $7k for 3 months of homeowner's insurance and 12 months of property taxes (so a total of 15 months homeowner's insurance and 18 months of property taxes!).

MY QUESTIONS:
[1] Is it standard to ask for prepaid of 6 months property tax and 12 months insurance as well as initial escrow of 3 months home owner's insurance and property taxes of 12 months?
[2] My old lender just paid my home owner's insurance for the year on 8/24, so why is Watermark asking for another 12 months?
[3] Should I be concerned about the difference in the payoff amount ($233k) and the loan amount ($235k)?
[4] If my loan rate is 2.25% and A+B+C+E <$0, why is my APR 2.46%?

Or should I not stress too much about F & G as long as A+B+C+E - lender credits < $0 since I'll get the money back anyway? Bringing $13k to the closing table is doable, although it will take a little movement of funds.

Any input much appreciated.
I did a little more digging and it looks like my property taxes are due in two installments, one basically right now and one in December. It seems like Watermark is asking for those upfront even though before closing my current lender will likely pay the first installment. Also, as I mentioned, my current lender already paid the homeowner's insurance for the year.

Should I not focus on those issues and just know that it will sort out in the end? Any thoughts on my other questions?
Update with what's listed for sections F (prepaid) & G (escrow).
ZMonet
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ZMonet »

3of10 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:13 pm
ZMonet wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:42 am I need to get in touch with Watermark today. Any thoughts on this before I contact them? My biggest question would be should I be concerned about the difference in APR (2.46% and 2.25%).

ZMonet wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:39 pm
ZMonet wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:22 pm I could really use some help with my Watermark loan: 2.25% interest rate for 10 years.

My current lender is showing a payoff amount of $233k.
My loan amount with Watermark is for $235k.

A+B+C+E = $2700
Lender Credits = $2900

What I am confused about is the amount that I need to bring to closing, which is $13k -- $6k for 12 months of homeowner's insurance, 6 months of property taxes, and a small amount of prepaid interest ($300) PLUS another $7k for 3 months of homeowner's insurance and 12 months of property taxes (so a total of 15 months homeowner's insurance and 18 months of property taxes!).

MY QUESTIONS:
[1] Is it standard to ask for prepaid of 6 months property tax and 12 months insurance as well as initial escrow of 3 months home owner's insurance and property taxes of 12 months?
[2] My old lender just paid my home owner's insurance for the year on 8/24, so why is Watermark asking for another 12 months?
[3] Should I be concerned about the difference in the payoff amount ($233k) and the loan amount ($235k)?
[4] If my loan rate is 2.25% and A+B+C+E <$0, why is my APR 2.46%?

Or should I not stress too much about F & G as long as A+B+C+E - lender credits < $0 since I'll get the money back anyway? Bringing $13k to the closing table is doable, although it will take a little movement of funds.

Any input much appreciated.
I did a little more digging and it looks like my property taxes are due in two installments, one basically right now and one in December. It seems like Watermark is asking for those upfront even though before closing my current lender will likely pay the first installment. Also, as I mentioned, my current lender already paid the homeowner's insurance for the year.

Should I not focus on those issues and just know that it will sort out in the end? Any thoughts on my other questions?
Update with what's listed for sections F (prepaid) & G (escrow).
F is $6100 ($2300 -- 12 months homeowner's insurance + $300 prepaid interest + $3500 6 month property taxes). Both homeowner's insurance and 6 months property taxes have been paid by current lender within the last week.

G is $7000 (3 months homeowner's insurance @ $574 and 12 months of property taxes @ $7k, then for some reason the homeowner's insurance has an "aggregate adjustment" of -$574.

What should I do about F since these were already paid by the current lender?
Isn't 12 months of property taxes a bit steep for escrow?

I wrote Watermark asking these questions but have not heard back.
BarDownHockey
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BarDownHockey »

finestlittlemexican wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:57 pm First post on Bogleheads, but really loved the book.

I'm about to jump on a refinance option but I wasn't sure about the practice of rolling over my G. Initial Escrow Payment at Closing which is moved into the loan as a lump sum. Is this standard practice? I'm confused on how the closing costs are $7,771, yet the Estimated Cash to Close is $871.
I'm also interested in how folks are getting the no costs refi at 2.875%? for 30 years..that sounds exactly what I would want.

Any help is much appreciated.

Here are the details.
30 yr, 2.875% rate conventional loan. I want to lower my monthly mortgage by removing my PMI and giving me an option of renting this house out in the future.

A+B+C = $2,435

E = $115
F = $358
G = $5,382

I = $5,855
J= $7,771

Lender credit of $519
Adjustment and other credits of $500

The Estimated Cash to Close is $871

Thank you

What’s happening is that they are rolling the closing costs into the new loan balance, meaning you will have a higher mortgage since it’ll be made up of outstanding, principal and the closing costs. This is not ideal, because you will also end up paying interest on the rolled in fees. You want to shop the loan estimate to get either lower costs for A,B and C, and / or a larger lender credit.
finestlittlemexican
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:47 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by finestlittlemexican »

Thanks BarDownHockey.
It took me by surprise when I saw the estimate and my loan amount went up. How are people finding these no cost refi?

My main goal is to lower my monthly payment and interest rate as I'd like to rent this house out in the future so I'd rather not pay a closing cost that takes longer than 1.5 years to break-even.
3of10
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:37 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

ZMonet wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:22 pm
3of10 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:13 pm
ZMonet wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:42 am I need to get in touch with Watermark today. Any thoughts on this before I contact them? My biggest question would be should I be concerned about the difference in APR (2.46% and 2.25%).

ZMonet wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:39 pm
ZMonet wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:22 pm I could really use some help with my Watermark loan: 2.25% interest rate for 10 years.

My current lender is showing a payoff amount of $233k.
My loan amount with Watermark is for $235k.

A+B+C+E = $2700
Lender Credits = $2900

What I am confused about is the amount that I need to bring to closing, which is $13k -- $6k for 12 months of homeowner's insurance, 6 months of property taxes, and a small amount of prepaid interest ($300) PLUS another $7k for 3 months of homeowner's insurance and 12 months of property taxes (so a total of 15 months homeowner's insurance and 18 months of property taxes!).

MY QUESTIONS:
[1] Is it standard to ask for prepaid of 6 months property tax and 12 months insurance as well as initial escrow of 3 months home owner's insurance and property taxes of 12 months?
[2] My old lender just paid my home owner's insurance for the year on 8/24, so why is Watermark asking for another 12 months?
[3] Should I be concerned about the difference in the payoff amount ($233k) and the loan amount ($235k)?
[4] If my loan rate is 2.25% and A+B+C+E <$0, why is my APR 2.46%?

Or should I not stress too much about F & G as long as A+B+C+E - lender credits < $0 since I'll get the money back anyway? Bringing $13k to the closing table is doable, although it will take a little movement of funds.

Any input much appreciated.
I did a little more digging and it looks like my property taxes are due in two installments, one basically right now and one in December. It seems like Watermark is asking for those upfront even though before closing my current lender will likely pay the first installment. Also, as I mentioned, my current lender already paid the homeowner's insurance for the year.

Should I not focus on those issues and just know that it will sort out in the end? Any thoughts on my other questions?
Update with what's listed for sections F (prepaid) & G (escrow).
F is $6100 ($2300 -- 12 months homeowner's insurance + $300 prepaid interest + $3500 6 month property taxes). Both homeowner's insurance and 6 months property taxes have been paid by current lender within the last week.

G is $7000 (3 months homeowner's insurance @ $574 and 12 months of property taxes @ $7k, then for some reason the homeowner's insurance has an "aggregate adjustment" of -$574.

What should I do about F since these were already paid by the current lender?
Isn't 12 months of property taxes a bit steep for escrow?

I wrote Watermark asking these questions but have not heard back.
Fannie Mae guidelines call for lenders to only request a "2 month max cushion" in extra reserves for escrow. So, the max that a lender should list in a LE for a normal situation for property taxes is 14 months. How property taxes are calculated will vary by state, so it's difficult to determine what is going on in your case.

But, you will definitely need to find out how the lender came up with that number (18), and why they're listing 12 months of property taxes in escrow. In my situation, I was assisting a family member with a current refi, and their ICD listed 17 months of property taxes. I questioned the lender about this (citing the max of 14 months). They then replied that there were circumstances that forced them to go with 17 months.

I then decided to go look at the property tax records for the family member, and saw that the current lender had failed to pay all of the taxes from the previous tax year. The refi lender saw this and had to add these late taxes to the refi. It explained the reason for going over the 14 month max. So, it will be best for you to first check your property tax records (which you've appeared to have done), and then push for a response from Watermark before closing.
Last edited by 3of10 on Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
finestlittlemexican
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:47 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by finestlittlemexican »

Thanks BarDownHockey.
It took me by surprise when I saw the estimate and my loan amount went up. How are people finding these no cost refi?

My main goal is to lower my monthly payment and interest rate as I'd like to rent this house out in the future so I'd rather not pay a closing cost that takes longer than 1.5 years to break-even.
BarDownHockey wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:51 pm
finestlittlemexican wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:57 pm First post on Bogleheads, but really loved the book.

I'm about to jump on a refinance option but I wasn't sure about the practice of rolling over my G. Initial Escrow Payment at Closing which is moved into the loan as a lump sum. Is this standard practice? I'm confused on how the closing costs are $7,771, yet the Estimated Cash to Close is $871.
I'm also interested in how folks are getting the no costs refi at 2.875%? for 30 years..that sounds exactly what I would want.

Any help is much appreciated.

Here are the details.
30 yr, 2.875% rate conventional loan. I want to lower my monthly mortgage by removing my PMI and giving me an option of renting this house out in the future.

A+B+C = $2,435

E = $115
F = $358
G = $5,382

I = $5,855
J= $7,771

Lender credit of $519
Adjustment and other credits of $500

The Estimated Cash to Close is $871

Thank you

What’s happening is that they are rolling the closing costs into the new loan balance, meaning you will have a higher mortgage since it’ll be made up of outstanding, principal and the closing costs. This is not ideal, because you will also end up paying interest on the rolled in fees. You want to shop the loan estimate to get either lower costs for A,B and C, and / or a larger lender credit.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

AlD wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:05 pm Questions:
1. If I ask them to not roll any costs into the loan (I offer to pay all closing costs out of pocket), can they change the points they charge back to the higher amount, even though I never asked them to roll all of the closing costs into the loan?
2. What would you do in this situation (finance the closing costs, or pay them upfront?). I have the cash on hand.
1. Yes they would
2. If you really don’t want to finance the closing costs, make an additional principal payment to offset them when your first or second bill comes.
ZMonet
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ZMonet »

3of10 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:28 pm

Update with what's listed for sections F (prepaid) & G (escrow).
F is $6100 ($2300 -- 12 months homeowner's insurance + $300 prepaid interest + $3500 6 month property taxes). Both homeowner's insurance and 6 months property taxes have been paid by current lender within the last week.

G is $7000 (3 months homeowner's insurance @ $574 and 12 months of property taxes @ $7k, then for some reason the homeowner's insurance has an "aggregate adjustment" of -$574.

What should I do about F since these were already paid by the current lender?
Isn't 12 months of property taxes a bit steep for escrow?

I wrote Watermark asking these questions but have not heard back.
[/quote]

Fannie Mae guidelines call for lenders to only request a "2 month max cushion" in extra reserves for escrow. So, the max that a lender should list in a LE for a normal situation for property taxes is 14 months. How property taxes are calculated will vary by state, so it's difficult to determine what is going on in your case.

But, you will definitely need to find out how the lender came up with that number (18), and why they're listing 12 months of property taxes in escrow. In my situation, I was assisting a family member with a current refi, and their ICD listed 17 months of property taxes. I questioned the lender about this (citing the max of 14 months). They then replied that there were circumstances that forced them to go with 17 months.

I then decided to go look at the property tax records for the family member, and saw that the current lender had failed to pay all of the taxes from the previous tax year. The refi lender saw this and had to add these late taxes to the refi. It explained the reason for going over the 14 month max. So, it will be best for you to first check your property tax records (which you've appeared to have done), and then push for a response from Watermark before closing.
[/quote]

Thanks for the explanation, 3of10. I'm guessing that there is something similar at play here and that F, besides the prepaid interest, will fall off. I'll be left with 3 months of homeowner's and 12 months of property taxes. Property taxes in my state are due in two installments, half in September and half in December. So 6 months of property taxes will be used in December, basically leaving them with 3 months of homeowner's and 6 months of property taxes, plus whatever I pay into escrow in upcoming mortgage payments between now and then. If that is the way it goes down, does that sound like an appropriate amount of escrow?
Hoosier CPA
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Hoosier CPA »

Brain wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:08 pm
Hoosier CPA wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:13 pm
Brain wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:01 pm
LPCes81 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:58 pm
Brain wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:17 pm

For everyone who's been waiting with baited breath, today is the day! I just checked Quicken and a line item of "BETTER MORTGAGE CREDIT" for $2,500 just showed up on my Amex card.

I only had a balance of $256.57, so now I have a surplus of $2,243.43! I thought I remember seeing someone say something about being able to cash out the credit on a low-balance card. Anyone know the mechanics of that?

For posterity:

The timeline:

June 16: locked with Better
June 23: cleared to close
July 8: closing
Sept 2: get Amex credit (exactly 8 weeks)

I just looked at my Amex account and it's saying the credit posted on Aug. 17. But Quicken has loaded events that happened after that. Odd.
I'm still waiting to close with Better since Late July. I got a $3700 lender credit because they wanted to beat Lenderfi. I never heard of a $2500 Amex credit until now but is that on top of other credits?
The Amex credit was a deal offered by Quicken Loans and Better. If you started an application by July 25th and close by some time in October and have an Amex card, Amex will give you a $2,500 credit to your card balance. This is completely separate from the lender credits on the loan itself. Talk to your Better rep and ask if you can apply for the Amex credit. If you applied with Better before July 25 and had an Amex card (not an affiliate like an airline or hotel card) by then, you might be eligible.
I was told by the initial salesguy at Better that my Hilton honors amex card was eligible. Is this not the case? I'm still working towards the finish line with Better.com. If not I have another Amex card I could use.
Every time I've heard it mentioned, it was quite clear that it had to be a straight-Amex branded card. Your Better rep should be able to confirm.
The better guy was hedging with words like "should." I called AMEX today and verified that it does qualify. I have an Amex blue card too - perhaps should have used that just to be sure.
bob24
Posts: 4
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bob24 »

@sapphire96 - can you please message me the name of the Loan Depot loan officer? Thanks in advance!

sapphire96 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:27 am
Xrayman69 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:13 pm
sapphire96 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:33 pm
JBTX wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:29 pm Got a quote from loan depot today. Cash out, total loan $225k, 15 year, $1500 in points, $5100 fees (TX) 2.375%.

30 year adds almost half point to interest rate, not worth it for me.

Current loan is 15 year 3.25%

This seems like a no brainer to me, unless I can get better.

Any experience with loan depot?
I am refinancing through Loan Depot. Very positive experience so far and their 15 year rates are very competitive to the market. Expecting to close within the next few weeks.
Sapphire96,

When did you start your process?

I’m also working with LD and started around August 10. No word or communication following the first week.

Thanks
My first communications with them were around August 5/6th. Locked in my rate on 8/7. My loan officer told me it would be between 30 and 45 days from when the loan locked to closing. If you’d like, send me a PM and I can give you the loan officer that I’m working with, who is fantastic and provides competitive quotes (at least for a 15 year) from the get-go.
3of10
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:37 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

ZMonet wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:06 pm
ZMonet wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:06 pm
3of10 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:28 pm

Update with what's listed for sections F (prepaid) & G (escrow).
F is $6100 ($2300 -- 12 months homeowner's insurance + $300 prepaid interest + $3500 6 month property taxes). Both homeowner's insurance and 6 months property taxes have been paid by current lender within the last week.

G is $7000 (3 months homeowner's insurance @ $574 and 12 months of property taxes @ $7k, then for some reason the homeowner's insurance has an "aggregate adjustment" of -$574.

What should I do about F since these were already paid by the current lender?
Isn't 12 months of property taxes a bit steep for escrow?

I wrote Watermark asking these questions but have not heard back.
3of10 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:28 pm
Fannie Mae guidelines call for lenders to only request a "2 month max cushion" in extra reserves for escrow. So, the max that a lender should list in a LE for a normal situation for property taxes is 14 months. How property taxes are calculated will vary by state, so it's difficult to determine what is going on in your case.

But, you will definitely need to find out how the lender came up with that number (18), and why they're listing 12 months of property taxes in escrow. In my situation, I was assisting a family member with a current refi, and their ICD listed 17 months of property taxes. I questioned the lender about this (citing the max of 14 months). They then replied that there were circumstances that forced them to go with 17 months.

I then decided to go look at the property tax records for the family member, and saw that the current lender had failed to pay all of the taxes from the previous tax year. The refi lender saw this and had to add these late taxes to the refi. It explained the reason for going over the 14 month max. So, it will be best for you to first check your property tax records (which you've appeared to have done), and then push for a response from Watermark before closing.
Thanks for the explanation, 3of10. I'm guessing that there is something similar at play here and that F, besides the prepaid interest, will fall off. I'll be left with 3 months of homeowner's and 12 months of property taxes. Property taxes in my state are due in two installments, half in September and half in December. So 6 months of property taxes will be used in December, basically leaving them with 3 months of homeowner's and 6 months of property taxes, plus whatever I pay into escrow in upcoming mortgage payments between now and then. If that is the way it goes down, does that sound like an appropriate amount of escrow?
It's best not to guess at what's going to happen. If the plan is for WM to pay the entire property tax (12 months), then they will still need a 2 months cushion for escrow. So, they will need around 14 months of property taxes total. Also, I would think that the 12 months would go in the prepaid section (to pay all of the taxes in one payment), and not escrow. So, there's still some uncertainty as to what is going on.

In my situation (disregarding the late taxes), my refi lender will be paying the property taxes in 2 installments (Sept & Dec). They will have in section F (6 months), and escrow (6 months). With 2 more regular escrow payments slated for Nov & Dec (Sept payment already done), that will total 14 months.
Last edited by 3of10 on Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bob24
Posts: 4
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bob24 »

Anybody have a Loan Cabin or Loan Depot Loan Officer or contact? If yes, could you please post here or message me?
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pianos101
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pianos101 »

bob24 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:53 pm Anybody have a Loan Cabin or Loan Depot Loan Officer or contact? If yes, could you please post here or message me?
Just PMd you.
Xrayman69
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Xrayman69 »

sapphire96 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:27 am
Xrayman69 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:13 pm
sapphire96 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:33 pm
JBTX wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:29 pm Got a quote from loan depot today. Cash out, total loan $225k, 15 year, $1500 in points, $5100 fees (TX) 2.375%.

30 year adds almost half point to interest rate, not worth it for me.

Current loan is 15 year 3.25%

This seems like a no brainer to me, unless I can get better.

Any experience with loan depot?
I am refinancing through Loan Depot. Very positive experience so far and their 15 year rates are very competitive to the market. Expecting to close within the next few weeks.
Sapphire96,

When did you start your process?

I’m also working with LD and started around August 10. No word or communication following the first week.

Thanks
My first communications with them were around August 5/6th. Locked in my rate on 8/7. My loan officer told me it would be between 30 and 45 days from when the loan locked to closing. If you’d like, send me a PM and I can give you the loan officer that I’m working with, who is fantastic and provides competitive quotes (at least for a 15 year) from the get-go.
sapphire96,
Thanks. I just sent a PM.
Soares1234
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:50 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Soares1234 »

dilligaf401 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:29 pm Just managed to lock in a 2.5% refi fixed for 30 years.
$1270 origination costs (section A) w/ $945 lender credit.
$1624 section C costs, $884 of which is the lender's title insurance (in CT, rates are filed with the state so seem to all be right around the same price).

Seems like my total costs are a little higher than what I've been seeing on recent pages in this thread, but I'm pretty happy with it.
I actually got this rate from 2 different brokers, but the one I went with had lower origination costs.

This thread has been very helpful, so figured I'd share.
I think this site is more about sharing the lender where you got a great deal then just the deal 😀. If you can share the lenders that would be awesome!
Soares1234
Posts: 79
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Soares1234 »

sudohouse wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:16 am
drk wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:10 pm
bgh11 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:29 pm For those with $1 million in an investment firm and if they offer mortgages, I have heard 30-yr jumbo at 2.75% no pt. Not ideal, just a thought.
Yeah, my contacts at big banks told me to wait until mid-September for new Jumbo pricing. The rates start so unattractive that even relationship pricing doesn't do much.
Can you give me more details about this. I'm right now shopping around for my investment property refinance loan amount of 637k and because it's above the 510k conforming limit I'm getting awful rates everywhere. Like 3.65% at 8k closing. Around what date did your contacts say new jumbo pricing hits? and why is it so bad for jumbos atm?
Try loan cabin and watermark, on slickdeals people are saying they got rates in the highs 2’s.

https://slickdeals.net/f/14173061-07-21 ... ntsSection
Soares1234
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Soares1234 »

sudohouse wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:16 am
drk wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:10 pm
bgh11 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:29 pm For those with $1 million in an investment firm and if they offer mortgages, I have heard 30-yr jumbo at 2.75% no pt. Not ideal, just a thought.
Yeah, my contacts at big banks told me to wait until mid-September for new Jumbo pricing. The rates start so unattractive that even relationship pricing doesn't do much.
Can you give me more details about this. I'm right now shopping around for my investment property refinance loan amount of 637k and because it's above the 510k conforming limit I'm getting awful rates everywhere. Like 3.65% at 8k closing. Around what date did your contacts say new jumbo pricing hits? and why is it so bad for jumbos atm?
Please report back on what you find. Currently in a multi that occupy but who knows in the future
Soares1234
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:50 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Soares1234 »

batpot wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:15 pm Have a quote for 2.375% 30 year but with closing costs at 0.9% of the loan.

Currently sitting at 2.75%...about a 4 year break even.

Pretty much know rates can't go any lower, right?
Loan amount, LTV and state?
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