Refinance Mega Thread

[NDS]

What's the latest on which mortgage firms have `clawback' provisions vs not? So far it seems like LenderFi *does*, Better does *not*. Any other data points out there?

[batpot]

Hi All,

sorry may be off topic, looking for suggestion please, trying to refinance rental property, balance is $290k at 3.25%
but loandepot shot me down saying there is no way to lower from that rate due it is investment property. Is it even true?


Thank you,
Goosh

Hi, I think someone mentioned rates in the 2’a here. At the top search investment and then rental in the search box. Or the below link.

https://slickdeals.net/f/13700090-amex- ... ntsSection

Whatever you find, please share.

Thanks!

The amex link appears to be dead.
If you login to your amex account and look for "Offers" or "Benefits", you might find it there.
However, I did not.

Often, Amex offers only apply to their higher tier cards. I only have the blue cash.

[anon_investor]

Hi All,

sorry may be off topic, looking for suggestion please, trying to refinance rental property, balance is $290k at 3.25%
but loandepot shot me down saying there is no way to lower from that rate due it is investment property. Is it even true?


Thank you,
Goosh

Hi, I think someone mentioned rates in the 2’a here. At the top search investment and then rental in the search box. Or the below link.

https://slickdeals.net/f/13700090-amex- ... ntsSection

Whatever you find, please share.

Thanks!

The amex link appears to be dead.
If you login to your amex account and look for "Offers" or "Benefits", you might find it there.
However, I did not.

The Amex deal expired a couple of weeks ago...

[boston85]

Has anyone had any luck on getting these rates for a Jumbo mortgage? I can't seem to find anywhere close to some of these quotes, even if you include a relationship discount.

[simplesimon]

What's the latest on which mortgage firms have `clawback' provisions vs not? So far it seems like LenderFi *does*, Better does *not*. Any other data points out there?

I'm going through LenderFi right now and haven't seen anything about a clawback.

Has anyone had any luck on getting these rates for a Jumbo mortgage? I can't seem to find anywhere close to some of these quotes, even if you include a relationship discount.

I am currently barely above jumbo territory so I'm paying it down about $8k to be super-conforming to get my 2.625% no-cost rate.

[BrandonBogle]

Ask both lenders to give you a quote for 2.625%. If you can get that with a big enough credit to cover closing costs go that way. Even if you're technically better off overt the life of the 30 year loan to get the 2.25% with higher fees now you don't want to go that way because you might be refinancing again in 6 months if rates drop another .5%. Get it at no closing costs and you don't lose anything if you refi again.

This!

[new]

Was anyone offered 2.5% from Owning and does not have 50% LTV? Their website shows 2.5% for 30 year fixed, but I am being quoted higher due to the LTV condition.

[BHLearner2020]

I am helping a friend qustion:

Friend has loan processes started and locked rate with a lender. The loan is still in underwriting. He got a better interest/credit offer from another lender but the current lender is unwilling to match it. He's going to cancel his existing applicaton with the lender. Does he have to wait for the lock period to expire (it was 30 days lock) or can he just lock with the new lender?

Thank You,

[GoodOmens]

What's the latest on which mortgage firms have `clawback' provisions vs not? So far it seems like LenderFi *does*, Better does *not*. Any other data points out there?

I'm going through LenderFi right now and haven't seen anything about a clawback.

You should have or will sign a "No sale clause" that you have no intent to refinance or sell your home within the next 6 months or risk having to repay any lender credits. It was in the initial disclosure docs I signed and I believe again at closing with the notary.

[tbone555]

I closed with Better late July: 3%, 30- year; no-cost with $2500 Amex deal.

Locking today with Lowrates.com: 2.625%; 30-year; $400 to close assuming I can use Radian Settlement again and appraosal is waived again. 4-month pay back. I figure this is close enough to no-cost to grab this lower rate.

[mcdb84]

Was anyone offered 2.5% from Owning and does not have 50% LTV? Their website shows 2.5% for 30 year fixed, but I am being quoted higher due to the LTV condition.

I am about to close on a 2.5% 30 year conventional this Wednesday. When I submitted for the rates I was closer to 60% LTV, but with the appraisal, I came under 50% so I was able to lock in 2.5% and also not get charged 0.25% in fees.

[anon_investor]

I closed with Better late July: 3%, 30- year; no-cost with $2500 Amex deal.

Locking today with Lowrates.com: 2.625%; 30-year; $400 to close assuming I can use Radian Settlement again and appraosal is waived again. 4-month pay back. I figure this is close enough to no-cost to grab this lower rate.

Based on what people are posting, looks like 2.5% is no cost for some people, you might want to shop around some more.

[NORDO]

We're into underwriting with Better now, but they took the latest LE from our current local lender on Friday and matched it. I think I'm going to call this a done deal and keep watching to see if rates somehow continue to drop even further.

$268K, 30 yr fixed, 2.500%, No Escrow

A+B+C = $1110
E+F = $470
Lender Credit = ($1469)

Total Cost = $111 (plus we'll get the $2500 AMEX credit)


Our current lender is offering 2.375% for about $650 total cost, but that would be a loss of the AMEX credit, so no way is it worth it in this rate environment.

[tbone555]

I closed with Better late July: 3%, 30- year; no-cost with $2500 Amex deal.

Locking today with Lowrates.com: 2.625%; 30-year; $400 to close assuming I can use Radian Settlement again and appraosal is waived again. 4-month pay back. I figure this is close enough to no-cost to grab this lower rate.

Based on what people are posting, looks like 2.5% is no cost for some people, you might want to shop around some more.

I have been shopping. It seems in my state and being close to 80 LTV I just can't find 2.5 no cost. It would cost me about $2.5k to get 2.5% rate. Maybe I should do it since I'm getting the Amex $2.5k Amex credit for the last refi.

[KeepinItPositive]

We're into underwriting with Better now, but they took the latest LE from our current local lender on Friday and matched it. I think I'm going to call this a done deal and keep watching to see if rates somehow continue to drop even further.

$268K, 30 yr fixed, 2.500%, No Escrow

A+B+C = $1110
E+F = $470
Lender Credit = ($1469)

Total Cost = $111 (plus we'll get the $2500 AMEX credit)


Our current lender is offering 2.375% for about $650 total cost, but that would be a loss of the AMEX credit, so no way is it worth it in this rate environment.

Did better match after you locked or before?

[anon_investor]

I closed with Better late July: 3%, 30- year; no-cost with $2500 Amex deal.

Locking today with Lowrates.com: 2.625%; 30-year; $400 to close assuming I can use Radian Settlement again and appraosal is waived again. 4-month pay back. I figure this is close enough to no-cost to grab this lower rate.

Based on what people are posting, looks like 2.5% is no cost for some people, you might want to shop around some more.

I have been shopping. It seems in my state and being close to 80 LTV I just can't find 2.5 no cost. It would cost me about $2.5k to get 2.5% rate. Maybe I should do it since I'm getting the Amex $2.5k Amex credit for the last refi.

Personally, I would probably wait a little bit, saving 0.375% with $400 closing costs is not a slam dunk with rates continuing to drop. But a 4 month break even is not bad.

[Ana Z]

Greetings Bogleheads,
I have applied for refinancing with LenderFi, Better and a local broker and the results are not as good as I expected. I would appreciate any feedback on this and would like to better understand the process.

Our data:
Remaining mortgage amount: 145 K
Property value: 600 K (townhouse)
Current mortgage: 30yr fixed, Rate 3.625%, 22 yr remaining
Credit >800
Looking for a no-cost 30 yr fixed.

Results:
LenderFi:
Rate 2.875%, APR 2.94; Loan costs A+B+C = $896 – Lender Credit $268 = $628 (plus $120 taxes in E)
Local Broker:
Rate 2.875%; No cost
Better.com:
Dashboard with various options, all of them much worse than the above.
Watermark: no reply yet (since Friday)
LoanCabin and Owning not available in our state

I wonder what is the reason that we are getting rates that are much worse than what is reported on this thread recently - is it because we have a relatively low mortgage amount? Or can there be something else I am missing?

Thank you for any input.

[NORDO]

We're into underwriting with Better now, but they took the latest LE from our current local lender on Friday and matched it. I think I'm going to call this a done deal and keep watching to see if rates somehow continue to drop even further.

$268K, 30 yr fixed, 2.500%, No Escrow

A+B+C = $1110
E+F = $470
Lender Credit = ($1469)

Total Cost = $111 (plus we'll get the $2500 AMEX credit)


Our current lender is offering 2.375% for about $650 total cost, but that would be a loss of the AMEX credit, so no way is it worth it in this rate environment.

Did better match after you locked or before?

After. Definitely lock and then submit competing LEs to your Processor, not the Concierge.

I think the same terms we locked were originally over $6K in total costs before the matches. They told me more than once I had the best they could offer.

[tbone555]

I closed with Better late July: 3%, 30- year; no-cost with $2500 Amex deal.

Locking today with Lowrates.com: 2.625%; 30-year; $400 to close assuming I can use Radian Settlement again and appraosal is waived again. 4-month pay back. I figure this is close enough to no-cost to grab this lower rate.

Based on what people are posting, looks like 2.5% is no cost for some people, you might want to shop around some more.

I have been shopping. It seems in my state and being close to 80 LTV I just can't find 2.5 no cost. It would cost me about $2.5k to get 2.5% rate. Maybe I should do it since I'm getting the Amex $2.5k Amex credit for the last refi.

Personally, I would probably wait a little bit, saving 0.375% with $400 closing costs is not a slam dunk with rates continuing to drop. But a 4 month break even is not bad.

I am a little torn about what to do, but this will be my second refi in two months so I'm happy to grab this rate and wait for rates to drop again. If anyone else has an opinion I'm all ears.

[new]

Was anyone offered 2.5% from Owning and does not have 50% LTV? Their website shows 2.5% for 30 year fixed, but I am being quoted higher due to the LTV condition.

I am about to close on a 2.5% 30 year conventional this Wednesday. When I submitted for the rates I was closer to 60% LTV, but with the appraisal, I came under 50% so I was able to lock in 2.5% and also not get charged 0.25% in fees.

Wow, that worked out well for you!

What is the 0.25% in fees?

Also, do you know if they have a claw back policy for refinancing in under 6 months?

[sharker10]

Just wanted to come back and share my results of my refi process:

Refi Amount: $160k
Estimated value: $290k
Seeking 30 year.

Originally working with LenderFi, who at the time was our best offer at 3% with no points/no cost. Was willing to move forward but the dude just ghosted me. Would not reply and could never lock it in.

Finally got a reply from Watermark, who offered me 2.625% no costs/ no points ( D = $2,885, Lender Credit of $3,002)

We went ahead and locked this rate in and will be submitted for processing today. Very happy with WaterMark so far.

[ChiKid24]

Greetings Bogleheads,
I have applied for refinancing with LenderFi, Better and a local broker and the results are not as good as I expected. I would appreciate any feedback on this and would like to better understand the process.

Our data:
Remaining mortgage amount: 145 K
Property value: 600 K (townhouse)
Current mortgage: 30yr fixed, Rate 3.625%, 22 yr remaining
Credit >800
Looking for a no-cost 30 yr fixed.

Results:
LenderFi:
Rate 2.875%, APR 2.94; Loan costs A+B+C = $896 – Lender Credit $268 = $628 (plus $120 taxes in E)
Local Broker:
Rate 2.875%; No cost
Better.com:
Dashboard with various options, all of them much worse than the above.
Watermark: no reply yet (since Friday)
LoanCabin and Owning not available in our state

I wonder what is the reason that we are getting rates that are much worse than what is reported on this thread recently - is it because we have a relatively low mortgage amount? Or can there be something else I am missing?

Thank you for any input.

Yes, the loan balance is likely what is hurting you. That said, you'd be going from 3.625% to 2.875% at no cost so this is a pretty nice amount of savings. While some are seeing no cost offers at 2.5%, I'd bet the majority are getting more like 2.75% so your 2.875% at that loan balance looks nice.

One more thing to consider, have you looked into 15-year rates? My guess is you'll get a rate at or below 2.5% and likely have a monthly payment pretty close to where you are today, but will be able to shave 7 years off your loan.

[simplesimon]

What's the latest on which mortgage firms have `clawback' provisions vs not? So far it seems like LenderFi *does*, Better does *not*. Any other data points out there?

I'm going through LenderFi right now and haven't seen anything about a clawback.

You should have or will sign a "No sale clause" that you have no intent to refinance or sell your home within the next 6 months or risk having to repay any lender credits. It was in the initial disclosure docs I signed and I believe again at closing with the notary.

I don't see any such document in the package I signed - not sure what determines whether they include it or not.

[JSDNJ]

We're into underwriting with Better now, but they took the latest LE from our current local lender on Friday and matched it. I think I'm going to call this a done deal and keep watching to see if rates somehow continue to drop even further.

$268K, 30 yr fixed, 2.500%, No Escrow

A+B+C = $1110
E+F = $470
Lender Credit = ($1469)

Total Cost = $111 (plus we'll get the $2500 AMEX credit)


Our current lender is offering 2.375% for about $650 total cost, but that would be a loss of the AMEX credit, so no way is it worth it in this rate environment.

What do you mean by ‘no escrow’

[simplesimon]

What do you mean by ‘no escrow’

Insurance and real estate taxes are to be paid by the borrower himself, not held in escrow by the servicer.

[NORDO]

We're into underwriting with Better now, but they took the latest LE from our current local lender on Friday and matched it. I think I'm going to call this a done deal and keep watching to see if rates somehow continue to drop even further.

$268K, 30 yr fixed, 2.500%, No Escrow

A+B+C = $1110
E+F = $470
Lender Credit = ($1469)

Total Cost = $111 (plus we'll get the $2500 AMEX credit)


Our current lender is offering 2.375% for about $650 total cost, but that would be a loss of the AMEX credit, so no way is it worth it in this rate environment.

What do you mean by ‘no escrow’

We won't have an escrow account with the new mortgage; we'll pay property tax + homeowners's insurance ourselves. Monthly payments to the lender will be P&I only.

[JSDNJ]

We're into underwriting with Better now, but they took the latest LE from our current local lender on Friday and matched it. I think I'm going to call this a done deal and keep watching to see if rates somehow continue to drop even further.

$268K, 30 yr fixed, 2.500%, No Escrow

A+B+C = $1110
E+F = $470
Lender Credit = ($1469)

Total Cost = $111 (plus we'll get the $2500 AMEX credit)


Our current lender is offering 2.375% for about $650 total cost, but that would be a loss of the AMEX credit, so no way is it worth it in this rate environment.

What do you mean by ‘no escrow’

We won't have an escrow account with the new mortgage; we'll pay property tax + homeowners's insurance ourselves. Monthly payments to the lender will be P&I only.

Oh ok. I know what escrow is I just thought maybe you were referring to not funding the escrow in the new loan or something.

[JSDNJ]

By the way I am working with some of the usual suspects. Is it customary to have to do a hard pull, and verify income in order to get a LE?

I just want to compare apples to apples and obviously a LE is the best way to do that, but I don’t want to run around getting hard pulls and verifying income a bunch of times.

[Ana Z]

Greetings Bogleheads,
I have applied for refinancing with LenderFi, Better and a local broker and the results are not as good as I expected. I would appreciate any feedback on this and would like to better understand the process.

Our data:
Remaining mortgage amount: 145 K
Property value: 600 K (townhouse)
Current mortgage: 30yr fixed, Rate 3.625%, 22 yr remaining
Credit >800
Looking for a no-cost 30 yr fixed.

Results:
LenderFi:
Rate 2.875%, APR 2.94; Loan costs A+B+C = $896 – Lender Credit $268 = $628 (plus $120 taxes in E)
Local Broker:
Rate 2.875%; No cost
Better.com:
Dashboard with various options, all of them much worse than the above.
Watermark: no reply yet (since Friday)
LoanCabin and Owning not available in our state

I wonder what is the reason that we are getting rates that are much worse than what is reported on this thread recently - is it because we have a relatively low mortgage amount? Or can there be something else I am missing?

Thank you for any input.

Yes, the loan balance is likely what is hurting you. That said, you'd be going from 3.625% to 2.875% at no cost so this is a pretty nice amount of savings. While some are seeing no cost offers at 2.5%, I'd bet the majority are getting more like 2.75% so your 2.875% at that loan balance looks nice.

One more thing to consider, have you looked into 15-year rates? My guess is you'll get a rate at or below 2.5% and likely have a monthly payment pretty close to where you are today, but will be able to shave 7 years off your loan.

Thank you for your reply. The local broker gave us a quote for 15 yr at 2.25% with 2.8K cost or 2.625% at no cost. I think I prefer the flexibility of 30 yr (paying earlier if everything goes well).

[kbjeffrey]

I'm in the process of refinancing in Chicago. I'm currently 5 years into a 30 year mortgage at 3.5% and a principal of $348,000. I've locked in a rate of 2.75% with a local broker, BlueLeaf Lending. I'm also getting costs paid toward closing, so I should only have to pay around $500. My business partner is also refinancing and he has friends that have had a good experience with the broker in the past. I was told by the broker that I got a good rate because of an excellent credit score and a loan to value ratio of about 30%.

I got a 30 year mortgage because I didn't want to commit to a high monthly payment. Rocket Mortgage offered me insanely low rate for a 15 year mortgage), but the monthly payment was very high and I don't trust them at all.

My thought is to keep my monthly payments manageable by getting a 30 year mortgage and then pay extra towards the principal as I can. Hopefully I'll be able to jump ahead more quickly to having more of my payments go to principal and shorten the length of the loan. If anyone has warnings about doing this, I'm listening...

[wootwoot]

What's the latest on which mortgage firms have `clawback' provisions vs not? So far it seems like LenderFi *does*, Better does *not*. Any other data points out there?

Just lenderfi

[bgh11]

What are the states where LenderFi is licensed?

[thrillhou]

I was told from one of the companies that, "pre-paid taxes will be due at the time of closing for ALL lenders, as this is a requirement set by Fannie Mae if your property taxes are due around the same time as your first monthly payment."

I do not have escrow included in my refi and it is not on their LE. The first company does not have such on their LE or CD.

Can anyone verify what this person wrote? If it is true, who exactly gets the money since there isn't an escrow account? This seems very odd to me.

[mcdb84]

Was anyone offered 2.5% from Owning and does not have 50% LTV? Their website shows 2.5% for 30 year fixed, but I am being quoted higher due to the LTV condition.

I am about to close on a 2.5% 30 year conventional this Wednesday. When I submitted for the rates I was closer to 60% LTV, but with the appraisal, I came under 50% so I was able to lock in 2.5% and also not get charged 0.25% in fees.

Wow, that worked out well for you!

What is the 0.25% in fees?

Also, do you know if they have a claw back policy for refinancing in under 6 months?

Not sure if they have a clawback policy and not sure if they have their own seasoning requirements if we refi with the same company.

What they told me was for any loan that is more than 50% LTV then they charge a 0.25% fee. Maybe an origination charge?

All in all, owning.com was the fastest refi I've ever completed.

From application to closing is 9 days.

[gerbilunit]

What's the latest on which mortgage firms have `clawback' provisions vs not? So far it seems like LenderFi *does*, Better does *not*. Any other data points out there?

I'm going through LenderFi right now and haven't seen anything about a clawback.

You should have or will sign a "No sale clause" that you have no intent to refinance or sell your home within the next 6 months or risk having to repay any lender credits. It was in the initial disclosure docs I signed and I believe again at closing with the notary.

I don't see any such document in the package I signed - not sure what determines whether they include it or not.

I'm trying to find the same thing? Any luck?

[ChiKid24]

What's the latest on which mortgage firms have `clawback' provisions vs not? So far it seems like LenderFi *does*, Better does *not*. Any other data points out there?

I'm going through LenderFi right now and haven't seen anything about a clawback.

You should have or will sign a "No sale clause" that you have no intent to refinance or sell your home within the next 6 months or risk having to repay any lender credits. It was in the initial disclosure docs I signed and I believe again at closing with the notary.

I don't see any such document in the package I signed - not sure what determines whether they include it or not.

I'm trying to find the same thing? Any luck?

Mine was in the initial disclosures I signed, towards the back of the package just before the IRS 4506T Request for Transcript. It is titled "Intent to Retain Mortgage No Sales Clause (180 days)"

[gerbilunit]

I'm going through LenderFi right now and haven't seen anything about a clawback.

You should have or will sign a "No sale clause" that you have no intent to refinance or sell your home within the next 6 months or risk having to repay any lender credits. It was in the initial disclosure docs I signed and I believe again at closing with the notary.

I don't see any such document in the package I signed - not sure what determines whether they include it or not.

I'm trying to find the same thing? Any luck?

Mine was in the initial disclosures I signed, towards the back of the package just before the IRS 4506T Request for Transcript. It is titled "Intent to Retain Mortgage No Sales Clause (180 days)"

Interesting, I just reopened my Initial as well and I see the 4506T but before and after I don't see the Intent to Retain that you mentioned.

[rascott]

I was told from one of the companies that, "pre-paid taxes will be due at the time of closing for ALL lenders, as this is a requirement set by Fannie Mae if your property taxes are due around the same time as your first monthly payment."

I do not have escrow included in my refi and it is not on their LE. The first company does not have such on their LE or CD.

Can anyone verify what this person wrote? If it is true, who exactly gets the money since there isn't an escrow account? This seems very odd to me.

It's not uncommon. I had a refi with no escrow.... with property taxes due within 30 days of closing. It was on the CD..... the title company paid the property taxes to the county instead of me. No big deal.

[thrillhou]

I was told from one of the companies that, "pre-paid taxes will be due at the time of closing for ALL lenders, as this is a requirement set by Fannie Mae if your property taxes are due around the same time as your first monthly payment."

I do not have escrow included in my refi and it is not on their LE. The first company does not have such on their LE or CD.

Can anyone verify what this person wrote? If it is true, who exactly gets the money since there isn't an escrow account? This seems very odd to me.

It's not uncommon. I had a refi with no escrow.... with property taxes due within 30 days of closing. It was on the CD..... the title company paid the property taxes to the county instead of me. No big deal.

Thanks, rascott. Taxes haven't even been billed yet, and they would be due Dec 10... So, I don't think I need to worry about it.

[Xrayman69]

Loan depot and got a locked rate at 2.25% for (high) conventional refinance today (15 years). No points and no cost.

Have been living in the single family home for 11 years. Based upon Zillow and ..... current mortgage is about 30% of value. Located in Seattle WA.

We started the application process last week after speaking by phone. Unlocked the credit freeze, supplied the address, supplied list of “assets”, “employer info and compensation “ , and some personal identifying info. The rep was able to confirm estimate home value, current debt, confirm pay and compensation info and sent locked rate.

??? He stated that we could forego the home appraisal if they inputted the value of the home to be lower and loan refinance number to be 40% of the “home value”. For example list the home value as 995,000 and refinance 400K (as opposed to home value of approximately 1,333,000 and refinance 400K.

Why would a lower home value but higher debt to value ratio forego the need for an appraisal but putting in a higher estimated value trigger the need for an appraisal?? Is this an unusual sand unacceptable practice? Is having the estimated home value greater than 1M trigger something? as the person stated easiest to place the value under 1M.

[VCC]

Loan depot and got a locked rate at 2.25% for (high) conventional refinance today (15 years). No points and no cost.

Have been living in the single family home for 11 years. Based upon Zillow and ..... current mortgage is about 30% of value. Located in Seattle WA.

We started the application process last week after speaking by phone. Unlocked the credit freeze, supplied the address, supplied list of “assets”, “employer info and compensation “ , and some personal identifying info. The rep was able to confirm estimate home value, current debt, confirm pay and compensation info and sent locked rate.

??? He stated that we could forego the home appraisal if they inputted the value of the home to be lower and loan refinance number to be 40% of the “home value”. For example list the home value as 995,000 and refinance 400K (as opposed to home value of approximately 1,333,000 and refinance 400K.

Why would a lower home value but higher debt to value ratio forego the need for an appraisal but putting in a higher estimated value trigger the need for an appraisal?? Is this an unusual sand unacceptable practice? Is having the estimated home value greater than 1M trigger something? as the person stated easiest to place the value under 1M.

1M value requires appraisal.

[Xrayman69]

Loan depot and got a locked rate at 2.25% for (high) conventional refinance today (15 years). No points and no cost.

Have been living in the single family home for 11 years. Based upon Zillow and ..... current mortgage is about 30% of value. Located in Seattle WA.

We started the application process last week after speaking by phone. Unlocked the credit freeze, supplied the address, supplied list of “assets”, “employer info and compensation “ , and some personal identifying info. The rep was able to confirm estimate home value, current debt, confirm pay and compensation info and sent locked rate.

??? He stated that we could forego the home appraisal if they inputted the value of the home to be lower and loan refinance number to be 40% of the “home value”. For example list the home value as 995,000 and refinance 400K (as opposed to home value of approximately 1,333,000 and refinance 400K.

Why would a lower home value but higher debt to value ratio forego the need for an appraisal but putting in a higher estimated value trigger the need for an appraisal?? Is this an unusual sand unacceptable practice? Is having the estimated home value greater than 1M trigger something? as the person stated easiest to place the value under 1M.

1M value requires appraisal.

Have others on BH also had similar experience and proceeded. Wanting to make sure this is not “fraud”.

[spbos]

By the way I am working with some of the usual suspects. Is it customary to have to do a hard pull, and verify income in order to get a LE?

I just want to compare apples to apples and obviously a LE is the best way to do that, but I don’t want to run around getting hard pulls and verifying income a bunch of times.

credit pull is necessary for a LE. most of the lenders will give you a rate quite assuming a credit score.

[Rayandron]

Loan depot and got a locked rate at 2.25% for (high) conventional refinance today (15 years). No points and no cost.

Have been living in the single family home for 11 years. Based upon Zillow and ..... current mortgage is about 30% of value. Located in Seattle WA.

We started the application process last week after speaking by phone. Unlocked the credit freeze, supplied the address, supplied list of “assets”, “employer info and compensation “ , and some personal identifying info. The rep was able to confirm estimate home value, current debt, confirm pay and compensation info and sent locked rate.

??? He stated that we could forego the home appraisal if they inputted the value of the home to be lower and loan refinance number to be 40% of the “home value”. For example list the home value as 995,000 and refinance 400K (as opposed to home value of approximately 1,333,000 and refinance 400K.

Why would a lower home value but higher debt to value ratio forego the need for an appraisal but putting in a higher estimated value trigger the need for an appraisal?? Is this an unusual sand unacceptable practice? Is having the estimated home value greater than 1M trigger something? as the person stated easiest to place the value under 1M.

1M value requires appraisal.

Have others on BH also had similar experience and proceeded. Wanting to make sure this is not “fraud”.

I do not know if $1m is the cap above which appraisals are required, but I do know that I also rounded down our "estimated home value" down to the $1m level in order to facilitate our appraisal getting waived and it was fine. I find it difficult to believe you could ever get in trouble for being extra conservative when estimating the value of your house.

[Goal33]

Loan depot and got a locked rate at 2.25% for (high) conventional refinance today (15 years). No points and no cost.

Have been living in the single family home for 11 years. Based upon Zillow and ..... current mortgage is about 30% of value. Located in Seattle WA.

We started the application process last week after speaking by phone. Unlocked the credit freeze, supplied the address, supplied list of “assets”, “employer info and compensation “ , and some personal identifying info. The rep was able to confirm estimate home value, current debt, confirm pay and compensation info and sent locked rate.

??? He stated that we could forego the home appraisal if they inputted the value of the home to be lower and loan refinance number to be 40% of the “home value”. For example list the home value as 995,000 and refinance 400K (as opposed to home value of approximately 1,333,000 and refinance 400K.

Why would a lower home value but higher debt to value ratio forego the need for an appraisal but putting in a higher estimated value trigger the need for an appraisal?? Is this an unusual sand unacceptable practice? Is having the estimated home value greater than 1M trigger something? as the person stated easiest to place the value under 1M.

1M value requires appraisal.

Have others on BH also had similar experience and proceeded. Wanting to make sure this is not “fraud”.

I do not know if $1m is the cap above which appraisals are required, but I do know that I also rounded down our "estimated home value" down to the $1m level in order to facilitate our appraisal getting waived and it was fine. I find it difficult to believe you could ever get in trouble for being extra conservative when estimating the value of your house.

same here... when I applied, I had to say my house was worth at least 1.03 to get the next rate tier (75% LTV) .. my house could probably appraise for anywhere up to 1.1 given the market right now... easy to justify any direction. Anyway, I got the same rate I was hoping for, but the loan officer changed my estimated value to $999,999 to waive appraisal. So far, so good

[KATNYC]

I suspect rates will start to go up soon.

It is true that the rates will eventually go up. But how quickly? Several weeks ago, Feds chair said that "We’re not thinking about raising rates, we’re not even thinking about thinking about raising rates." Even a mortgage company like Better sent out this yesterday: "Rates expected to stay near record lows, but can’t fall much further. The Federal Reserve’s renewed commitment to support lending will likely keep rates low, but new records may be hard to break as lenders struggle to handle the influx of new applications."

Rates arent going up. They'll be below 2% soon.

I got a 1.99% 15 yr fixed quote today
NYC

2.875% 30 year fixed no points, $4,300 closing costs
2.375% 30 year fixed with discount points paid, $8,030 closing costs
2.625% 15 year fixed, $4,282 closing costs
1.99% 15 year fixed with discount points paid, $8,663 closing costs

Can you please share lenders?

Those rates are from ASAP Mortgage in NY.
Many banks in this thread do not work in NYC.

[WestCoastNewbie]

Loan depot and got a locked rate at 2.25% for (high) conventional refinance today (15 years). No points and no cost.

Have been living in the single family home for 11 years. Based upon Zillow and ..... current mortgage is about 30% of value. Located in Seattle WA.

We started the application process last week after speaking by phone. Unlocked the credit freeze, supplied the address, supplied list of “assets”, “employer info and compensation “ , and some personal identifying info. The rep was able to confirm estimate home value, current debt, confirm pay and compensation info and sent locked rate.

??? He stated that we could forego the home appraisal if they inputted the value of the home to be lower and loan refinance number to be 40% of the “home value”. For example list the home value as 995,000 and refinance 400K (as opposed to home value of approximately 1,333,000 and refinance 400K.

Why would a lower home value but higher debt to value ratio forego the need for an appraisal but putting in a higher estimated value trigger the need for an appraisal?? Is this an unusual sand unacceptable practice? Is having the estimated home value greater than 1M trigger something? as the person stated easiest to place the value under 1M.

1M value requires appraisal.

Have others on BH also had similar experience and proceeded. Wanting to make sure this is not “fraud”.

Had the same experience with LenderFI. Home value was entered as 999,999 even though the actual value is likely higher. Appraisal was waived.

[BrandonBogle]

We're into underwriting with Better now, but they took the latest LE from our current local lender on Friday and matched it. I think I'm going to call this a done deal and keep watching to see if rates somehow continue to drop even further.

$268K, 30 yr fixed, 2.500%, No Escrow

A+B+C = $1110
E+F = $470
Lender Credit = ($1469)

Total Cost = $111 (plus we'll get the $2500 AMEX credit)


Our current lender is offering 2.375% for about $650 total cost, but that would be a loss of the AMEX credit, so no way is it worth it in this rate environment.

Nice! That's a great offer. Who was the local lender Better matched?

[InvestDoc]

Hey guys,

Just locked in a 2.5% conventional 30 year fixed with Owning.com.

Since I have over 50% equity, they didn't charge me the 0.25% origination charge.

Absolutely no closing costs at all: No origination, No title charges, No recording charges. They gave me lender credit of $1104.00 to cover all costs.

Only costs for me is prepaid interest of 15 days, which total $406.00

I was in shock that this was completely free! I actually am refinancing from a VA 30 year fixed, which I closed back in May 2020, into this conventional loan and opted to not escrow my taxes and insurance.

Total loan amount is $389400.00

I finally pulled the trigger and applied online to a few places (Owning, LC, LenderFi through link here, Better, and WaterMark).

Loan: 316k (318 if they pulled the last month's info), looking for 15 yr
So Cal; LTV ~35%, ~800 credit score, co-applied with DW
Have never had an escrow account for the 7 yr of origin and now current mortgage loans. I prefer not to have it.

LC asked for all sorts of info about employer, etc upfront. Would love to know their offer, but won't hold my breath for a quick response based on what others here have written.

Owning called within minutes of submission.
I called the LO back about 40 min later, and we talked for a while. She said having an escrow account doesn't change their offer. She is planning for a closing by the end of August. Because my loan was less then $350k (which is in their webpage disclosures for their advertised rate of 2.25%), she said I would get a no-cost rate at 2.375%. I asked about cash-out to get to $350k, and she said it's possible, but there is a 1.5% fee on the entire loan amount for a cash-out to then drop to 2.25% (I haven't checked any math there, but I'm 99% sure that $5.2k isn't worth the 1/8th point in rate).

I got the LE tonight. Rate is listed as 2.25%!
Loan amount: $316,000
A: $0
B: $507
C: $788
D (total): $1295
(E&F for reference to folks)
E: $153
F: $119 (6 days at 2.25%)
G: $0
I (total): $272
J: $120; So, Lender Credit listed as $1447.

They have the month older balance, so the cash to close is $2220 instead of $120. I know that the total will wash out in the end in this regard.

It's not clear if they are going to have an appraisal or not. Need to ask about it. I know it's covered, but I'd prefer not to have someone come to the house and take the time to deal with that.

I now need to send the required docs and make sure this is locked. (7.25 yr ago I missed some super-low -- for the time -- 30 yr rates by about a week, so am happy with bird in hand here)

Because the close so fast and no-cost, I'm thinking that the speed of it all is valuable to me - and it's a great rate to boot.

Anything else I need to think about?


(the web offers for LF and better were at about $0 cost at 2.5%. And the website for better went from credit to points for 2.5% in the last 4 hours)

Just an FYI, I closed with Owning.com for a refinance recently and have a hard time recommending them. Yes, the rates are super low (in fact, they are now 1/2% lower than when I locked 2 months ago), but my loan officer and loan processor ghosted me as soon as I signed the papers (before the loan finalized) and the customer service has been appalling. I signed papers end of June and was told the loan would fund the last week of June (a couple days after I signed), but it took them almost 2 weeks to fund the loan after I signed the papers, and well beyond the 3 day right of rescission period. They were not able to give me any details about when it would fund and just blamed it on the bank being busy due to coronavirus, which they had never told me up front (they promised a 2 week closing since my appraisal was waived). They couldn't even tell me if they would fund the loan before my July payment was due with my old lender (which was already included in the payoff amount), so I nearly had to pay a double mortgage payment for July, but thankfully they closed a few days before the due date. As long as you can be patient and take their promises of a fast closing with a grain of salt, you won't be as disappointed as me. Also double and triple check your final closing statement. Since my loan funding was so delayed, the final loan disclosures had to be recalculated, and they actually overcharged me on the prepaid interest for the new loan. It was like pulling teeth to get them to refund the money to me, and they still have not given me the full amount due back. The owner of Owning has an 80% financial interest in the escrow company they use (hence why they charge no lender/title fees), but that means the escrow company doesn't act as a neutral third party facilitating the transaction (they will make you sign a conflict of interest disclosure up front). This company was recommended to me by another person, so maybe I just got a really bad loan team, but just wanted you to be aware.

[ChiKid24]

Loan depot and got a locked rate at 2.25% for (high) conventional refinance today (15 years). No points and no cost.

Have been living in the single family home for 11 years. Based upon Zillow and ..... current mortgage is about 30% of value. Located in Seattle WA.

We started the application process last week after speaking by phone. Unlocked the credit freeze, supplied the address, supplied list of “assets”, “employer info and compensation “ , and some personal identifying info. The rep was able to confirm estimate home value, current debt, confirm pay and compensation info and sent locked rate.

??? He stated that we could forego the home appraisal if they inputted the value of the home to be lower and loan refinance number to be 40% of the “home value”. For example list the home value as 995,000 and refinance 400K (as opposed to home value of approximately 1,333,000 and refinance 400K.

Why would a lower home value but higher debt to value ratio forego the need for an appraisal but putting in a higher estimated value trigger the need for an appraisal?? Is this an unusual sand unacceptable practice? Is having the estimated home value greater than 1M trigger something? as the person stated easiest to place the value under 1M.

1M value requires appraisal.

Have others on BH also had similar experience and proceeded. Wanting to make sure this is not “fraud”.

Yes, Lenderfi did this for me as a way to avoid an appraisal and save costs.