Refinance Mega Thread

[anon_investor]

Is it possible to refinance without having an in-home appraisal

I tried but had no luck.

"For an appraisal waiver to be considered, a prior appraisal must be found for the subject property in Fannie Mae’s CU data." And more...

Appraisal Waivers: Frequently Asked Questions
https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/media/9456/display

I refinanced in May with Ally and in July with LenderFi. Both times appraisal was waived. My mortgage prior to these refis was owned directly by Wells Fargo (not Fannie or Freddie) so no idea of an appraisal was in Fannie's database (if it was it would be a few years old at least), but Ally sold my loan to Fannie. Waiting for details on who my just closed LenderFi loan will be sold to.

[djeayzonne]

Just got a quote from a local lender(TX), here are the details:

• 30 yrs fixed rate @2.625% no cost

• 3700 credits are given to cover all the cost

• loan remaining amount 440K

current mortgage

• 15 yrs fixed rate @2.875%

• loan starts at 469K

My ideal target rate is 2.5%, worth to wait for a bit?

Which lender?

I would just start the process with the agreement of a rate adjustment of rates are lower by the time you close.

[topcatin]

Hi we just closed our loan with Lenderfi today -

Loan - 208k
2.62% - 15 year- $1600 Lender Credit
Sec D - $1650
Paid for appraisal and $2k towards Prepaid/Escrow

Here is the timeline -
July 8 - Verbally Locked rate
July 13 - Received Locked rate in writing
July 16 - Loan processor assigned
July 20 - Moved to Underwriting
July 23 - In-house Appraisal
July 29 - Received Appraisal and loan is sent to underwriting to close the loan
July 31 - Received Pre-closing Disclosure stating closing is on Aug 4th.
Aug 1 - Signed the disclosures
Aug 8 - Notary came home and we closed the loan.

This thread has been helpful and a good refinance-101 for me. Special thanks to Cash is King,Chikid24,brandonbogle and anon_investor.

If I had a 208k at 2.62% 15yr loan, I would tried to refinance again sometime soon. You are the only person be able to judge if that will make any sense in your case.

The old loan was a 3.62% 30 year loan, so decided on this. Will see in 6 months or later if rates come down more.

[Cash is King]

Is it possible to refinance without having an in-home appraisal

I tried but had no luck.

"For an appraisal waiver to be considered, a prior appraisal must be found for the subject property in Fannie Mae’s CU data." And more...

Appraisal Waivers: Frequently Asked Questions
https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/media/9456/display

I refinanced in May with Ally and in July with LenderFi. Both times appraisal was waived. My mortgage prior to these refis was owned directly by Wells Fargo (not Fannie or Freddie) so no idea of an appraisal was in Fannie's database (if it was it would be a few years old at least), but Ally sold my loan to Fannie. Waiting for details on who my just closed LenderFi loan will be sold to.

I refinanced in March and the appraisal was waived. My old mortgage was owned by Citi but in doing some research it looks like if your loan is guaranteed by Fannie or Freddie an appraisal would be in their database. If interested, you can check on your mortgage at this site: https://www.knowyouroptions.com/loanlookup

[Shikoku]

Is it possible to refinance without having an in-home appraisal

I tried but had no luck.

"For an appraisal waiver to be considered, a prior appraisal must be found for the subject property in Fannie Mae’s CU data." And more...

Appraisal Waivers: Frequently Asked Questions
https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/media/9456/display

I refinanced in May with Ally and in July with LenderFi. Both times appraisal was waived. My mortgage prior to these refis was owned directly by Wells Fargo (not Fannie or Freddie) so no idea of an appraisal was in Fannie's database (if it was it would be a few years old at least), but Ally sold my loan to Fannie. Waiting for details on who my just closed LenderFi loan will be sold to.

Different underwriters use different systems. This appears to be a super complicated topic. Freddie Mac uses "big data and advanced analytics" as well as "proprietary algorithms." So only a small number of people might know how it truly works.

"We are using big data and advanced analytics to offer our innovative, award-winning automated collateral evaluation (ACE) through Loan Product Advisor®, providing the option to underwrite certain loans without a traditional appraisal. This new capability will speed up and lower the cost of the loan origination process for you and your borrowers. Our proprietary algorithms use historical data and public records to assess the condition and marketability risks associated with the property to determine if the value you provide is acceptable. Loans that qualify for ACE may receive relief from representations and warranties related to the property’s value, condition and marketability."

Source:
Automated Collateral Evaluation (ACE)
http://www.freddiemac.com/singlefamily/ ... rixDoc.pdf

[NORDO]

Working with Better, LoanDepot and AmeriSave for refinancing a recent mortgage with balance $680k on a high rise condo at no cost. Current loan is 30 year fixed for 3% from last year and hence don't want pay anything out of pocket(other than escrow)

I have received offers for 2.625 at no cost. I'm trying to see if 2.375 or 2.5 is a possibility with no cost or minimal cost. Has anyone have got any recent experience with getting a rate 2.5 or lower with no cost?

Yep, plenty of recent data points for both. I've got a 2.375% for ~$675 cost LE right now. Given that's non-jumbo, and location + LTV will certainly affect what you can receive.

[Thrifty Femme]

Is it possible to refinance without having an in-home appraisal

I got 2.5% 15 year fixed with $242 in closing costs with the appraisal waived, 49.5% LTV, loan amount 206k, not jumbo with Northpointe locked in April closed in early June. I have no idea what the criteria is for waiving the appraisal.

[therealhunter]

Working with Better, LoanDepot and AmeriSave for refinancing a recent mortgage with balance $680k on a high rise condo at no cost. Current loan is 30 year fixed for 3% from last year and hence don't want pay anything out of pocket(other than escrow)

I have received offers for 2.625 at no cost. I'm trying to see if 2.375 or 2.5 is a possibility with no cost or minimal cost. Has anyone have got any recent experience with getting a rate 2.5 or lower with no cost?

Yep, plenty of recent data points for both. I've got a 2.375% for ~$675 cost LE right now. Given that's non-jumbo, and location + LTV will certainly affect what you can receive.

Thanks! Is your 2.375 LE with no cost? My LTV is around 78%. I have got 2.5 with 1.5k cost and 2.375 with 7k cost. Noone has offered me 2.375 at no cost. Any advise/strategy would be helpful. Also, if you don't mind me asking, who is your lender?

[need403bhelp]

So my better concierge just reached out to me and reminded me it had been 2 weeks since I "applied" through the site and that I have 30 days from app date to lock to get $2,500 AmEx credit.

Applied to LoanCabin 7/29, emailed back and forth with hello at loancabin dot com, but haven't heard from LO yet. Any ideas when I should hear?

My tentative plan per discussions here:

1. Wait until LC pulls credit
2. Float with LC, meanwhile apply with a few other lenders and lock with one of them (lowest, 2nd lowest?)
3. Ask better concierge to match/beat LE from non-LC lender above
4. Go through underwriting; at that point (or maybe even later), lock with LC, and then try to get better.com to match

What do you guys think?

Thank you!

[Soares1234]

I suspect rates will start to go up soon.

It is true that the rates will eventually go up. But how quickly? Several weeks ago, Feds chair said that "We’re not thinking about raising rates, we’re not even thinking about thinking about raising rates." Even a mortgage company like Better sent out this yesterday: "Rates expected to stay near record lows, but can’t fall much further. The Federal Reserve’s renewed commitment to support lending will likely keep rates low, but new records may be hard to break as lenders struggle to handle the influx of new applications."

Rates arent going up. They'll be below 2% soon.

I got a 1.99% 15 yr fixed quote today
NYC

2.875% 30 year fixed no points, $4,300 closing costs
2.375% 30 year fixed with discount points paid, $8,030 closing costs
2.625% 15 year fixed, $4,282 closing costs
1.99% 15 year fixed with discount points paid, $8,663 closing costs

Can you please share lenders?

[Soares1234]

Hi All,

sorry may be off topic, looking for suggestion please, trying to refinance rental property, balance is $290k at 3.25%
but loandepot shot me down saying there is no way to lower from that rate due it is investment property. Is it even true?


Thank you,
Goosh

Hi, I think someone mentioned rates in the 2’a here. At the top search investment and then rental in the search box. Or the below link.

https://slickdeals.net/f/13700090-amex- ... ntsSection

Whatever you find, please share.

Thanks!

[Soares1234]

Is it possible to refinance without having an in-home appraisal

I believe so with single family homes. Google Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac appraisal waiver

[Bleedinggums99]

I signed my closing documents 12 days ago I still do not see on my original lenders site that the loan has been paid off. How long after closing is the loan supposed to be paid? I know it’s at least 3 days but is there a max?

[anon_investor]

I signed my closing documents 12 days ago I still do not see on my original lenders site that the loan has been paid off. How long after closing is the loan supposed to be paid? I know it’s at least 3 days but is there a max?

Did your new lender tell you they sent the payoff? I would check with them.

[3of10]

Hi,

What is the best way to comparison shop for mortgage rates? Do I need to get quotes over email/phone from various sources, and then submit application to only one of them?

Please let me know. I have seen people sharing their LE on this forum. Do you actually obtain LE from various lenders before making the final choice?

Hi, can someone please help me with the above questions?

I tried reaching out to agents at 2 banks, but they are not even responding. How wil I compare rates if they end up responding on different days?

I'd like to help you but I'm not sure I understand the question.

When you get estimates from banks, ask for loan estimates to be sent to you via email and then once you have them, compare them. You can also send an estimate to another lender as proof that you have a better deal than what they're offering and see if they will counter it.

Getting the lenders to actually cough up an official LE seems to be the difficulty. Understandable, if frustrating, as they know you're only asking to go do comparison shopping, it costts them time, and they're probably already having to turn down business from everyone trying to get their refis done. But if there's a trick to reliably getting the LE, please share!

When I started my refi, almost every lender refused to provide an LE. There are 6 items listed by the government as needed to get an LE. It's important when filling out the applications for each lender, to note which of the 6 items you've placed in the application.

When the time comes for you to talk to the lender, and they resist providing the LE, you then remind them that by law they're required to provide you with an LE, and you've already given them x number of the 6 items required to get the LE. You are now ready to provide them with the remaining item so that you can get the LE and officially see what rates they're offering to you. When I used this approach, I always received the LE from the lender.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfp ... e-en-1987/

"What information do I have to provide a lender in order to receive a Loan Estimate?

Loan officers are required to provide you with a Loan Estimate once you have provided:
your name,
your income,
your Social Security number (so the lender can pull a credit report), "they might ask for a fee for pulling the credit, which is acceptable if the rate quote is in the range we're looking for"
the property address,
an estimate of the value of the property, and
the desired loan amount.

Your loan officer cannot require you to provide documents verifying this information before providing you with a Loan Estimate."

[Bandit390]

Hi,

What is the best way to comparison shop for mortgage rates? Do I need to get quotes over email/phone from various sources, and then submit application to only one of them?

Please let me know. I have seen people sharing their LE on this forum. Do you actually obtain LE from various lenders before making the final choice?

Hi, can someone please help me with the above questions?

I tried reaching out to agents at 2 banks, but they are not even responding. How wil I compare rates if they end up responding on different days?

I'd like to help you but I'm not sure I understand the question.

When you get estimates from banks, ask for loan estimates to be sent to you via email and then once you have them, compare them. You can also send an estimate to another lender as proof that you have a better deal than what they're offering and see if they will counter it.

Getting the lenders to actually cough up an official LE seems to be the difficulty. Understandable, if frustrating, as they know you're only asking to go do comparison shopping, it costts them time, and they're probably already having to turn down business from everyone trying to get their refis done. But if there's a trick to reliably getting the LE, please share!

When I started my refi, almost every lender refused to provide an LE. There are 6 items listed by the government as needed to get an LE. It's important when filling out the applications for each lender, to note which of the 6 items you've placed in the application.

When the time comes for you to talk to the lender, and they resist providing the LE, you then remind them that by law they're required to provide you with an LE, and you've already given them x number of the 6 items required to get the LE. You are now ready to provide them with the remaining item so that you can get the LE and officially see what rates they're offering to you. When I used this approach, I always received the LE from the lender.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfp ... e-en-1987/

"What information do I have to provide a lender in order to receive a Loan Estimate?

Loan officers are required to provide you with a Loan Estimate once you have provided:
your name,
your income,
your Social Security number (so the lender can pull a credit report), "they might ask for a fee for pulling the credit, which is acceptable if the rate quote is in the range we're looking for"
the property address,
an estimate of the value of the property, and
the desired loan amount.

Your loan officer cannot require you to provide documents verifying this information before providing you with a Loan Estimate."

Better called me the other day and I told them what they needed to beat. They wanted the LE from the other company before they would give me their LE. I sent it and what their LE would have to be for me to care about them. I have yet to receive their LE. I just assume they can’t beat it. Too many good companies out there to waste time on one.

[thrillhou]

Questions on the timing of closing and if it's near the regular monthly payment date:

I received the closing doc, and it shows the amount of the loan I requested, but still shows the current loan's balance for June, and it wants cash brought to closing to cover this amount. But, it's already ~$2400 too high. (as an aside; I can't figure out how the new bank calculated the amount to pay off... it's just a number that's a little higher than balance. But, none of the per diem I calculate make the math work)

I'm about to make another monthly mortgage payment. The payment could occur within a day or so of the closing or the funding (that i believe is 3 days after closing). Therefore, the current loan balance will be nearly 5k less than my closing doc say.

I trust that in the end, I'm not going to be losing any money or otherwise giving extra to someone. However, I want to avoid any cash-out label. Thanks to this thread, I know there is a $2k limit on the difference between new loan and old loan+per diem+escrow (I have none).

1. Do I make the regular payment as scheduled? (I plan on it, since I don't want a late fee, and it reduces principal by a lot more than the new loan does per payment)
2. Do I push closing back to after that payment is recognized?
3. When do I tell the refi bank to check the current balance and re-do the loan amount and cash that's needed at close?
4. Will they lower the loan amount total of the new loan? (I assume it's an easy yes...)
5. Is it considered cash-out if they're just refunding money I bring to closing?

(looking at the numbers a little more closely, after a payment this week, the balance plus per diem til a funding day probably will be more than $2k lower than the new loan amount by a couple hundred dollars. so they'll have to lower the new loan balance)

Thanks everyone!

[3of10]

My experience with lenderfi was not so good. The fees went up, not by much. I would have been fine with that. But they sent me an updated LE with additional fees rolled in the loan so and payment went down as newer payoff from my existing lender was lower. They never mentioned that things changed. When I asked to keep the original cost, they just went quiet.
I am waiting on loan cabin, I applied last week and got no information yet

This might can shed some light on what can, and cannot be changed on a locked LE.

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/owning- ... estimates/

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfp ... te-en-172/

[3of10]

Looking for some help understanding things, I've read through a great deal of this thread but something still isn't clicking. We have $435K remaining on a 30 year 3.875% mortgage, $510K initial purchase, current value is ~$575K.

Loan Depot quoted me the following:
$443K loan, 25 years at 2.625%, $1,470 in lender credits, $2,092 back to us at closing. They've waived the appraisal, so no fee there (and that means a guarantee we can knock off $110 per month PMI which is awesome).

I'm trying to get quotes from LenderFi and New American too, but just on Loan Depot: that loan amount seems high, right? I told the loan officer I don't want to have to bring money to the table but why am I getting back $2K rather than it being a $441K mortgage?

Also when people say A+B+C+D etc what are the letters referring to?

I'm hoping to finish this off today, anyone have any thoughts/help on this?

THANKS!

Brownie1022, maybe I'm missing something here. You state that your current loan balance is $435K, but LD quoted a loan balance of $443K. Where did this $8K cost come from? You really do need to get a LE (if you still haven't received it) to legally see what's going on with this loan, and have some protection from any modifications later down the road.

[Shikoku]

Better called me the other day and I told them what they needed to beat. They wanted the LE from the other company before they would give me their LE. I sent it and what their LE would have to be for me to care about them. I have yet to receive their LE. I just assume they can’t beat it. Too many good companies out there to waste time on one.

I fully agree with this one. Better was never competitive for me to begin with. LD, LC, WM -- all delivered far superior offers than Better in their first LEs although LC took almost two weeks to do so. I still could not understand what is the Business philosophy of Better and why they operate the way they operate.

In the end, they matched my best LE. However, I had to go through multiple hoops -- these were totally unnecessary. And I agreed to go through the hoops to get $2,500 AMEX credit. Shame on me! But I took it as a business transaction, and I have four months of free time -- pretty much nothing else to do!

[Goosh]

Hi All,

sorry may be off topic, looking for suggestion please, trying to refinance rental property, balance is $290k at 3.25%
but loandepot shot me down saying there is no way to lower from that rate due it is investment property. Is it even true?


Thank you,
Goosh

Hi, I think someone mentioned rates in the 2’a here. At the top search investment and then rental in the search box. Or the below link.

https://slickdeals.net/f/13700090-amex- ... ntsSection

Whatever you find, please share.

Thanks!

Hi Soares1234, thank you for your link!

from the forum post you sent, turned out indeed rental refinance rate is much higher then regular one, at least 0.5%, but I will keep looking and come back with results.

[bluebolt]

Questions on the timing of closing and if it's near the regular monthly payment date:

I received the closing doc, and it shows the amount of the loan I requested, but still shows the current loan's balance for June, and it wants cash brought to closing to cover this amount. But, it's already ~$2400 too high. (as an aside; I can't figure out how the new bank calculated the amount to pay off... it's just a number that's a little higher than balance. But, none of the per diem I calculate make the math work)

I'm about to make another monthly mortgage payment. The payment could occur within a day or so of the closing or the funding (that i believe is 3 days after closing). Therefore, the current loan balance will be nearly 5k less than my closing doc say.

I trust that in the end, I'm not going to be losing any money or otherwise giving extra to someone. However, I want to avoid any cash-out label. Thanks to this thread, I know there is a $2k limit on the difference between new loan and old loan+per diem+escrow (I have none).

1. Do I make the regular payment as scheduled? (I plan on it, since I don't want a late fee, and it reduces principal by a lot more than the new loan does per payment)
2. Do I push closing back to after that payment is recognized?
3. When do I tell the refi bank to check the current balance and re-do the loan amount and cash that's needed at close?
4. Will they lower the loan amount total of the new loan? (I assume it's an easy yes...)
5. Is it considered cash-out if they're just refunding money I bring to closing?

(looking at the numbers a little more closely, after a payment this week, the balance plus per diem til a funding day probably will be more than $2k lower than the new loan amount by a couple hundred dollars. so they'll have to lower the new loan balance)

Thanks everyone!

You should be able to get them to adjust the loan balance. I asked my lender to make the new loan balance equal to the final outstanding principal amount of my previous loan. Two payments posted in between my application and closing. I let them know and they adjusted the closing docs. If not, it'll still work out in the end - your new lender will pay off the amount owed and you'll get a loan for the amount requested. If there's money left over, you'll get it back.

[Soares1234]

Hi All,

sorry may be off topic, looking for suggestion please, trying to refinance rental property, balance is $290k at 3.25%
but loandepot shot me down saying there is no way to lower from that rate due it is investment property. Is it even true?


Thank you,
Goosh

Hi, I think someone mentioned rates in the 2’a here. At the top search investment and then rental in the search box. Or the below link.

https://slickdeals.net/f/13700090-amex- ... ntsSection

Whatever you find, please share.

Thanks!

Hi Soares1234, thank you for your link!

from the forum post you sent, turned out indeed rental refinance rate is much higher then regular one, at least 0.5%, but I will keep looking and come back with results.

To confirm, did you search those keyword here on boglehead too?

[Soares1234]

I have a rental property where I have an offer for 2.625% on a 15 year with $672 of points, 2.75% with a $672 credit, or 30 years at 2.875% with $672 of points.

Thoughts?

Thanks

Can you share the lender/s?

[Radman]

Another LenderFi data point. State Iowa. Applied through the backdoor website link which has been posted, rate locked 8/7/2020. 2.25% 15 year fixed. Loan 425,000. LTV 77%. Appraisal was waved. A + B + C + E = 1599. Lender credit 3179 which even offsets some of the escrow funding. We are pretty happy with the offer.

[Shaka]

Here are some data points for me:

Looking to refinance a $310,000 outstanding mortgage balance on townhome (shared walls) in California.

Owning
They could not offer an appraisal waiver, so they declined to offer me anything (after verbal quote of 2.875, no cost)

Better
2.5%, 30 year fixed, LTV 33%
A+B+C+E = 5,800
No appraisal waiver

LoanDepot
No LE yet, but quoted 2.75% for 30 year fixed with $1657 costs

Still waiting on LenderFi, LoanCabin, and Watermark.

Was hoping for better given some of the recent posts.

[gurusw]

Hi,

Quick question. Once I lock the rate, what paperwork should I expect from the agent/lender? Do they send the LE again with "Rate Lock" expiry date, or is there a seperate Rate Lock agreement?

Last year when I refinanced with WF, they had sent me LE with Rate Lock date, along with a separate Rate Lock agreement. This time I am refinancing with a local agent, and he sent me only LE with Rate Lock date. Is that ok, or should I press for the agreement?

[ChantingThrone]

Hello,
PA resident here trying to refinance $200K on a house worth $350K. Was offered 2.375%, 30-year fixed, with net closing cost of $3500, no appraisal. Initial offers from Better.com and LenderFi are more expensive. Is this a good offer, or should I shop around more?

Thanks in advance!

Sounds like a very good "no point" offer.
Mind sharing who it was from? I am from PA as well, and Title Insurance makes our total D+E higher than most others on this thread.

Thank you for the feedback. Sent you a PM.

[ChantingThrone]

Hello,
PA resident here trying to refinance $200K on a house worth $350K. Was offered 2.375%, 30-year fixed, with net closing cost of $3500, no appraisal. Initial offers from Better.com and LenderFi are more expensive. Is this a good offer, or should I shop around more?

Thanks in advance!

Please share lender!

Sent you a PM. Thansk!

[gurusw]

Hi,

What is the best way to comparison shop for mortgage rates? Do I need to get quotes over email/phone from various sources, and then submit application to only one of them?

Please let me know. I have seen people sharing their LE on this forum. Do you actually obtain LE from various lenders before making the final choice?

Hi, can someone please help me with the above questions?

I tried reaching out to agents at 2 banks, but they are not even responding. How wil I compare rates if they end up responding on different days?

I'd like to help you but I'm not sure I understand the question.

When you get estimates from banks, ask for loan estimates to be sent to you via email and then once you have them, compare them. You can also send an estimate to another lender as proof that you have a better deal than what they're offering and see if they will counter it.

Getting the lenders to actually cough up an official LE seems to be the difficulty. Understandable, if frustrating, as they know you're only asking to go do comparison shopping, it costts them time, and they're probably already having to turn down business from everyone trying to get their refis done. But if there's a trick to reliably getting the LE, please share!

When I started my refi, almost every lender refused to provide an LE. There are 6 items listed by the government as needed to get an LE. It's important when filling out the applications for each lender, to note which of the 6 items you've placed in the application.

When the time comes for you to talk to the lender, and they resist providing the LE, you then remind them that by law they're required to provide you with an LE, and you've already given them x number of the 6 items required to get the LE. You are now ready to provide them with the remaining item so that you can get the LE and officially see what rates they're offering to you. When I used this approach, I always received the LE from the lender.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfp ... e-en-1987/

"What information do I have to provide a lender in order to receive a Loan Estimate?

Loan officers are required to provide you with a Loan Estimate once you have provided:
your name,
your income,
your Social Security number (so the lender can pull a credit report), "they might ask for a fee for pulling the credit, which is acceptable if the rate quote is in the range we're looking for"
the property address,
an estimate of the value of the property, and
the desired loan amount.

Your loan officer cannot require you to provide documents verifying this information before providing you with a Loan Estimate."

When I had tried to refinance my jumbo loan 5 months back, the local agent did not provide me LE (I had provided all the 6 items above).
She had only confirmed the rate for 30-year on phone, and asked my credit card to schedule appraisal.
When the appraisal came in, she said no banks are giving out jumbo loan, and pressed me to get ARM. I did not want to go for ARM.
This ended in me losing the appraisal fees. I disputed with credit card issuer, but they said I owe the appraisal fees. However I never realized (and hence did not raise the fact that) I was not given LE that's required by law.
Now, having said this... what can I do now? More than the money, I am angry about the fact that I was denied my legal rights, and given cold shoulder. So I am not necessarily looking to sue, but even a complaint to the right authority would bring peace to my mind. After all, I do not know how many people she is cheating.

[raixx017]

Another LenderFi data point. State Iowa. Applied through the backdoor website link which has been posted, rate locked 8/7/2020. 2.25% 15 year fixed. Loan 425,000. LTV 77%. Appraisal was waved. A + B + C + E = 1599. Lender credit 3179 which even offsets some of the escrow funding. We are pretty happy with the offer.

How soon are they saying they can lock this rate for you ? I wad told it can be done only after completing an initial loan approval process, which could take up to 15 days. What if market rate changes withing this time ?

[Radman]

Another LenderFi data point. State Iowa. Applied through the backdoor website link which has been posted, rate locked 8/7/2020. 2.25% 15 year fixed. Loan 425,000. LTV 77%. Appraisal was waved. A + B + C + E = 1599. Lender credit 3179 which even offsets some of the escrow funding. We are pretty happy with the offer.

How soon are they saying they can lock this rate for you ? I wad told it can be done only after completing an initial loan approval process, which could take up to 15 days. What if market rate changes withing this time ?

I have uploaded the requested paperwork and was verbally told that the rate was locked.

[anon_investor]

Hi,

Quick question. Once I lock the rate, what paperwork should I expect from the agent/lender? Do they send the LE again with "Rate Lock" expiry date, or is there a seperate Rate Lock agreement?

Last year when I refinanced with WF, they had sent me LE with Rate Lock date, along with a separate Rate Lock agreement. This time I am refinancing with a local agent, and he sent me only LE with Rate Lock date. Is that ok, or should I press for the agreement?

I have done refi's with Ally and LenderFi this year, and both times after I locked the rate all I got were updated LE indicating the rate lock and no separate "rate lock agreement".

[Shikoku]

When I had tried to refinance my jumbo loan 5 months back, the local agent did not provide me LE (I had provided all the 6 items above).
She had only confirmed the rate for 30-year on phone, and asked my credit card to schedule appraisal.
When the appraisal came in, she said no banks are giving out jumbo loan, and pressed me to get ARM. I did not want to go for ARM.
This ended in me losing the appraisal fees. I disputed with credit card issuer, but they said I owe the appraisal fees. However I never realized (and hence did not raise the fact that) I was not given LE that's required by law.
Now, having said this... what can I do now? More than the money, I am angry about the fact that I was denied my legal rights, and given cold shoulder. So I am not necessarily looking to sue, but even a complaint to the right authority would bring peace to my mind. After all, I do not know how many people she is cheating.

If I am at your place, my answer is: https://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
Just for the peace of mind!

[ChiKid24]

Here are some data points for me:

Looking to refinance a $310,000 outstanding mortgage balance on townhome (shared walls) in California.

Owning
They could not offer an appraisal waiver, so they declined to offer me anything (after verbal quote of 2.875, no cost)

Better
2.5%, 30 year fixed, LTV 33%
A+B+C+E = 5,800
No appraisal waiver

LoanDepot
No LE yet, but quoted 2.75% for 30 year fixed with $1657 costs

Still waiting on LenderFi, LoanCabin, and Watermark.

Was hoping for better given some of the recent posts.

Did you ask Better for no cost option? My guess is if you go up to 2.75%, you'd get a lender credit close to covering the cost. That's pretty good for a townhome. What are you currently paying?

[gerbilunit]

Hi all,
I just received my Closing Disclosures and wanted to better understand a few figures that seem odd to me. The Loan Amount on the CD is $475K when my LE and when I look at my mortgage statement shows the outstanding principal balance is ~$471K and change. Why would the Loan Amount be higher than what I actually owe on the mortgage? Are they rolling in some sort of fees? In Letter K, it shows my loan servicer and the amount is higher than what I see when I log into my loan servicing account. Am I missing something here?

The second question I had is with the Calculating Cash to Close section. I now see a positive amount that is going "To Borrower" and it says "Closing Costs Financed (Paid from your Loan Amount). Is that normal and what exactly does that mean or implicate? Am I being charged some sort of fee or is something getting rolled into my payment? Just wanted to check with the guru's here if they are trying to pull a fast one on me.

[XtremeSki2001]

If two lenders are offering the same interest rate, you just compare the sum of A+B+C+E less lender credits to determine which offer is better.

I agree with this. However in practice, section E can also be manipulated. This actually represents the amount you get charged by the government agency to record the transaction. However in practice, I've seen numbers all over the place in initial disclosures from various lenders. Until final closing that section numbers cannot be trusted.

Having said that, using (Lender credit - (D+E)) is still the best way to compare quotes.

Another way to compare 2 quotes is to compare the APR (not rate). Since APR includes all the upfront cost you'll pay plus the interest rate over the life of loan. Again some lenders play dirty tricks here like rounding there APR to one decimal point.. using both APR and (Lender credit - (D+E)) is still your best bet.

Perhaps I'm interpreting this wrong, but let me give it a go and assume all other figures not shown are equal (e.g., loan amount, etc.) ...

Lender A
Closing Costs (D+E-Credit) - $4,448
Interest Rate - 2.25%
APR - 2.346%

Lender B
Closing Costs (D+E-Credit) - $2,844
Interest Rate - 2.5%
APR - 2.538%

Lender A closing costs are ~$1,600 more than Lender B, but since overall APR of Lender A is 0.192% lower I should proceed with Lender A. Is this the appropriate interpretation?

[NDS]

30y @ 2.6% on a 155k loan, D+E - lender credits = -$50. Take it and run, or..?

[jimmyrules712]

The subject of getting appraisal waivers is very confusing to me. When I applied to LenderFI in July they said I qualified for a waiver no problem. In August both Watermark and Loan Cabin said I do not qualify for one. I had assumed that if you qualified for a waiver from 1 lender you would qualify for it for all lenders. Any theories on what's making the difference? I used the same loan amount and house value on the applications for all 3 lenders.

[Qw1221wq]

30y @ 2.6% on a 155k loan, D+E - lender credits = -$50. Take it and run, or..?

Just run.

[jimmyrules712]

If two lenders are offering the same interest rate, you just compare the sum of A+B+C+E less lender credits to determine which offer is better.

I agree with this. However in practice, section E can also be manipulated. This actually represents the amount you get charged by the government agency to record the transaction. However in practice, I've seen numbers all over the place in initial disclosures from various lenders. Until final closing that section numbers cannot be trusted.

Having said that, using (Lender credit - (D+E)) is still the best way to compare quotes.

Another way to compare 2 quotes is to compare the APR (not rate). Since APR includes all the upfront cost you'll pay plus the interest rate over the life of loan. Again some lenders play dirty tricks here like rounding there APR to one decimal point.. using both APR and (Lender credit - (D+E)) is still your best bet.

Perhaps I'm interpreting this wrong, but let me give it a go and assume all other figures not shown are equal (e.g., loan amount, etc.) ...

Lender A
Closing Costs (D+E-Credit) - $4,448
Interest Rate - 2.25%
APR - 2.346%

Lender B
Closing Costs (D+E-Credit) - $2,844
Interest Rate - 2.5%
APR - 2.538%

Lender A closing costs are ~$1,600 more than Lender B, but since overall APR of Lender A is 0.192% lower I should proceed with Lender A. Is this the appropriate interpretation?

You should factor the title costs from section C out of the comparison and just compare the section A + B + credit. Shop around for the title insurance and you'll likely find an option that has lower costs then what both the lenders are quoting you. If lender A has a lower rate and a credit equal to or greater than lender B then go with them irregardless of what the title insurance closing costs are since you have control over those.

[ChiKid24]

If two lenders are offering the same interest rate, you just compare the sum of A+B+C+E less lender credits to determine which offer is better.

I agree with this. However in practice, section E can also be manipulated. This actually represents the amount you get charged by the government agency to record the transaction. However in practice, I've seen numbers all over the place in initial disclosures from various lenders. Until final closing that section numbers cannot be trusted.

Having said that, using (Lender credit - (D+E)) is still the best way to compare quotes.

Another way to compare 2 quotes is to compare the APR (not rate). Since APR includes all the upfront cost you'll pay plus the interest rate over the life of loan. Again some lenders play dirty tricks here like rounding there APR to one decimal point.. using both APR and (Lender credit - (D+E)) is still your best bet.

Perhaps I'm interpreting this wrong, but let me give it a go and assume all other figures not shown are equal (e.g., loan amount, etc.) ...

Lender A
Closing Costs (D+E-Credit) - $4,448
Interest Rate - 2.25%
APR - 2.346%

Lender B
Closing Costs (D+E-Credit) - $2,844
Interest Rate - 2.5%
APR - 2.538%

Lender A closing costs are ~$1,600 more than Lender B, but since overall APR of Lender A is 0.192% lower I should proceed with Lender A. Is this the appropriate interpretation?

With that much out of pocket, I'd probably keep shopping or go up in rate to get a larger lender credit to try to make it closer to zero cost. You sacrifice a bit on the rate today but it costs you nothing and you have more flexibility to refinance again. If you do one of these options as quoted and rates fall to 2% in six months and want to refinance again, you will have wasted the $2,844.

[dangle1257]

I have a quick question. I was offered 2.5% no cost refinance by both owning and lenderfi. I started process with owning and submitted my signatures and docs but the loan officer is saying she cannot lock until after the appraisal which will take 5-7 days but that I shouldnt' be worried and that I will be able to get the rate in all likelihood. Should I be worried?

Lenderfi is offering me to lock me in with no appraisal for the same rate. Should I switch? My %LTV is below 50 so I'm not worried about the appraisal altering my rate. Thanks!

[XtremeSki2001]

If two lenders are offering the same interest rate, you just compare the sum of A+B+C+E less lender credits to determine which offer is better.

I agree with this. However in practice, section E can also be manipulated. This actually represents the amount you get charged by the government agency to record the transaction. However in practice, I've seen numbers all over the place in initial disclosures from various lenders. Until final closing that section numbers cannot be trusted.

Having said that, using (Lender credit - (D+E)) is still the best way to compare quotes.

Another way to compare 2 quotes is to compare the APR (not rate). Since APR includes all the upfront cost you'll pay plus the interest rate over the life of loan. Again some lenders play dirty tricks here like rounding there APR to one decimal point.. using both APR and (Lender credit - (D+E)) is still your best bet.

Perhaps I'm interpreting this wrong, but let me give it a go and assume all other figures not shown are equal (e.g., loan amount, etc.) ...

Lender A
Closing Costs (D+E-Credit) - $4,448
Interest Rate - 2.25%
APR - 2.346%

Lender B
Closing Costs (D+E-Credit) - $2,844
Interest Rate - 2.5%
APR - 2.538%

Lender A closing costs are ~$1,600 more than Lender B, but since overall APR of Lender A is 0.192% lower I should proceed with Lender A. Is this the appropriate interpretation?

With that much out of pocket, I'd probably keep shopping or go up in rate to get a larger lender credit to try to make it closer to zero cost. You sacrifice a bit on the rate today but it costs you nothing and you have more flexibility to refinance again. If you do one of these options as quoted and rates fall to 2% in six months and want to refinance again, you will have wasted the $2,844.

I've shopped six (6) lenders so far . Section C / title costs in Pennsylvania are set by the state and make up about $2k out of pocket for nearly all lenders.

Given the above, based on my calculations, it's appears financially prudent to pay more closing costs with A given the lower rate ... even if I rolled the closing into my new loan from what I can tell.

[jimmyrules712]

If two lenders are offering the same interest rate, you just compare the sum of A+B+C+E less lender credits to determine which offer is better.

I agree with this. However in practice, section E can also be manipulated. This actually represents the amount you get charged by the government agency to record the transaction. However in practice, I've seen numbers all over the place in initial disclosures from various lenders. Until final closing that section numbers cannot be trusted.

Having said that, using (Lender credit - (D+E)) is still the best way to compare quotes.

Another way to compare 2 quotes is to compare the APR (not rate). Since APR includes all the upfront cost you'll pay plus the interest rate over the life of loan. Again some lenders play dirty tricks here like rounding there APR to one decimal point.. using both APR and (Lender credit - (D+E)) is still your best bet.

Perhaps I'm interpreting this wrong, but let me give it a go and assume all other figures not shown are equal (e.g., loan amount, etc.) ...

Lender A
Closing Costs (D+E-Credit) - $4,448
Interest Rate - 2.25%
APR - 2.346%

Lender B
Closing Costs (D+E-Credit) - $2,844
Interest Rate - 2.5%
APR - 2.538%

Lender A closing costs are ~$1,600 more than Lender B, but since overall APR of Lender A is 0.192% lower I should proceed with Lender A. Is this the appropriate interpretation?

With that much out of pocket, I'd probably keep shopping or go up in rate to get a larger lender credit to try to make it closer to zero cost. You sacrifice a bit on the rate today but it costs you nothing and you have more flexibility to refinance again. If you do one of these options as quoted and rates fall to 2% in six months and want to refinance again, you will have wasted the $2,844.

I've shopped six (6) lenders so far . Section C / title costs in Pennsylvania are set by the state and make up about $2k out of pocket for nearly all lenders.

Given the above, based on my calculations, it's appears financially prudent to pay more closing costs with A given the lower rate ... even if I rolled the closing into my new loan from what I can tell.

Ask both lenders to give you a quote for 2.625%. If you can get that with a big enough credit to cover closing costs go that way. Even if you're technically better off overt the life of the 30 year loan to get the 2.25% with higher fees now you don't want to go that way because you might be refinancing again in 6 months if rates drop another .5%. Get it at no closing costs and you don't lose anything if you refi again.

[ChiKid24]

I have a quick question. I was offered 2.5% no cost refinance by both owning and lenderfi. I started process with owning and submitted my signatures and docs but the loan officer is saying she cannot lock until after the appraisal which will take 5-7 days but that I shouldnt' be worried and that I will be able to get the rate in all likelihood. Should I be worried?

Lenderfi is offering me to lock me in with no appraisal for the same rate. Should I switch? My %LTV is below 50 so I'm not worried about the appraisal altering my rate. Thanks!

The appraisal doesn't sound like a risk given that LTV, but if you don't lock then you are exposing yourself to risk that rates move the other way. So that Owning quote is pretty meaningless because rates will certainly move in the next 5-7 days since they fluctuate daily.

If Lenderfi if allowing you to lock then I'd go that route since the rate is the same. If you prefer Owning for some reason I'd suggest another call to the loan officer and tell them you want to lock rates today and are going with someone who offered you 2.5% no cost. You appreciate their 2.5% offer but it's meaningless since you can't lock it for another week and it might be higher at that time.

[gas_balloon]

If two lenders are offering the same interest rate, you just compare the sum of A+B+C+E less lender credits to determine which offer is better.

I agree with this. However in practice, section E can also be manipulated. This actually represents the amount you get charged by the government agency to record the transaction. However in practice, I've seen numbers all over the place in initial disclosures from various lenders. Until final closing that section numbers cannot be trusted.

Having said that, using (Lender credit - (D+E)) is still the best way to compare quotes.

Another way to compare 2 quotes is to compare the APR (not rate). Since APR includes all the upfront cost you'll pay plus the interest rate over the life of loan. Again some lenders play dirty tricks here like rounding there APR to one decimal point.. using both APR and (Lender credit - (D+E)) is still your best bet.

Perhaps I'm interpreting this wrong, but let me give it a go and assume all other figures not shown are equal (e.g., loan amount, etc.) ...

Lender A
Closing Costs (D+E-Credit) - $4,448
Interest Rate - 2.25%
APR - 2.346%

Lender B
Closing Costs (D+E-Credit) - $2,844
Interest Rate - 2.5%
APR - 2.538%

Lender A closing costs are ~$1,600 more than Lender B, but since overall APR of Lender A is 0.192% lower I should proceed with Lender A. Is this the appropriate interpretation?

That is not always correct. If you're planning to keep the mortgage for the full term of 15 or 30yrs, then you're right: a lower APR translates to lower expense.

However if you're refinance early again, then the extra cost may not be worth it. In this case, you're paying $1,960 extra to close in exchange for slightly lower monthly payment with loan 1. How long would it take you to break even 1960 vs the extra money you'll pay every month?

[gas_balloon]

Owning.com is advertising 2.5% again today on 30yr fixed.

[3of10]

When I had tried to refinance my jumbo loan 5 months back, the local agent did not provide me LE (I had provided all the 6 items above).
She had only confirmed the rate for 30-year on phone, and asked my credit card to schedule appraisal.
When the appraisal came in, she said no banks are giving out jumbo loan, and pressed me to get ARM. I did not want to go for ARM.
This ended in me losing the appraisal fees. I disputed with credit card issuer, but they said I owe the appraisal fees. However I never realized (and hence did not raise the fact that) I was not given LE that's required by law.
Now, having said this... what can I do now? More than the money, I am angry about the fact that I was denied my legal rights, and given cold shoulder. So I am not necessarily looking to sue, but even a complaint to the right authority would bring peace to my mind. After all, I do not know how many people she is cheating.

If I am at your place, my answer is: https://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
Just for the peace of mind!

+1. Now with that said, the question is whether the poster requested the LE? Many lenders do not want to provide the LE, in order to prevent the borrower from doing comparisons (which is one of the reasons why the LE was created). Unfortunately, a borrower has to know what the rules are before starting the refi.

[3of10]

Hi, can someone please help me with the above questions?

I tried reaching out to agents at 2 banks, but they are not even responding. How wil I compare rates if they end up responding on different days?

I'd like to help you but I'm not sure I understand the question.

When you get estimates from banks, ask for loan estimates to be sent to you via email and then once you have them, compare them. You can also send an estimate to another lender as proof that you have a better deal than what they're offering and see if they will counter it.

Getting the lenders to actually cough up an official LE seems to be the difficulty. Understandable, if frustrating, as they know you're only asking to go do comparison shopping, it costts them time, and they're probably already having to turn down business from everyone trying to get their refis done. But if there's a trick to reliably getting the LE, please share!

When I started my refi, almost every lender refused to provide an LE. There are 6 items listed by the government as needed to get an LE. It's important when filling out the applications for each lender, to note which of the 6 items you've placed in the application.

When the time comes for you to talk to the lender, and they resist providing the LE, you then remind them that by law they're required to provide you with an LE, and you've already given them x number of the 6 items required to get the LE. You are now ready to provide them with the remaining item so that you can get the LE and officially see what rates they're offering to you. When I used this approach, I always received the LE from the lender.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfp ... e-en-1987/

"What information do I have to provide a lender in order to receive a Loan Estimate?

Loan officers are required to provide you with a Loan Estimate once you have provided:
your name,
your income,
your Social Security number (so the lender can pull a credit report), "they might ask for a fee for pulling the credit, which is acceptable if the rate quote is in the range we're looking for"
the property address,
an estimate of the value of the property, and
the desired loan amount.

Your loan officer cannot require you to provide documents verifying this information before providing you with a Loan Estimate."

Better called me the other day and I told them what they needed to beat. They wanted the LE from the other company before they would give me their LE. I sent it and what their LE would have to be for me to care about them. I have yet to receive their LE. I just assume they can’t beat it. Too many good companies out there to waste time on one.

They might not have replied back due to the stipulation you placed in your reply to them. It might have been best to just have them respond back with their counter-offer, and take it from there. It wouldn't hurt to give them one last call before moving on. There is usually a loan officer that is assigned to your refi who you can directly contact.