Refinance Mega Thread

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TXGator
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by TXGator »

BarDownHockey wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:47 pm I'm curious what people think of the following two offers. I currently have a 3.75%, $800k loan with a 75% LTV:

1. 30 year, no points, 3.25% (3.263% APR), $3,100 in net closing costs excluding prepaids ($3,500 less a $400 lender credit), no escrow. My monthly payment would go down $450.
2. 30 year, no points, 3.375% (3.393% APR), $1,700 in net closing costs excluding prepaids ($3,700 less a $2,000 lender credit), no escrow. My monthly payment would go down $400.

Jumbo's have been hard to find banks or brokers who are refi'ing right now. In both cases, I can roll the costs into the new loan amount, which I plan to do (but am open to understand if I shouldn't).

I'm conscious that rates might drop lower in the coming months, especially for jumbos which seem to have seized up right now, and I'd look to refi again. If so, I'm leaning towards #2 because of the lower closing costs, thinking that the break even is a shorter time frame and I'm out fewer costs if I refi before break even. But I'm new to this so I'd appreciate help with what I should be thinking about deciding between the two.
Pretty good for a jumbo now - where did you get that?
asahopkins
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by asahopkins »

All_About_Benjis wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:57 pm
asahopkins wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:00 pm We are refinancing our home, and I'm trying to work out whether to do a no-cost refi or pay points for a lower rate.

Situation:
Loan would be for ~$670k; LTV ~0.6. FICO 760+. Super-conforming.
We're going to be in this house forever (or let's assume so).

LenderFi is offering a no-cost at 3.0%, no points (costs ~$1600) for 2.875%, and 0.56 points ($3800 + $1600 costs) for 2.75%

Argument for the no-cost option: preserves the ability to refinance again in ~6 months if rates are lower. Right now, the spread between mortgage rates and treasuries is about 0.5 points above the long-term average. If Treasuries stay low (which seems likely given the pandemic) then mortgage rates should fall further.

Argument for paying for points: We'll be in the house for long enough to get the payoff. Only have to shop for refinance and do paperwork once. Rates may not fall further (or they may fall far enough that refinancing is worth it anyway -- e.g. if the no-cost level got down below 2.75%).

I welcome your thinking on this topic/choice. Thank you!
Quick question - are you getting these rates online or by calling? I've been on the hunt for a 3.0% with no cost to us, but LenderFi's online estimates include about $2000 in closing costs.
By calling. Rates about 0.125% (or so) less calling than they were online. Well: I filled out the online application, then they started emailing and calling me, and we got to where we are.
BarDownHockey
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BarDownHockey »

TXGator wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:10 pm
BarDownHockey wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:47 pm I'm curious what people think of the following two offers. I currently have a 3.75%, $800k loan with a 75% LTV:

1. 30 year, no points, 3.25% (3.263% APR), $3,100 in net closing costs excluding prepaids ($3,500 less a $400 lender credit), no escrow. My monthly payment would go down $450.
2. 30 year, no points, 3.375% (3.393% APR), $1,700 in net closing costs excluding prepaids ($3,700 less a $2,000 lender credit), no escrow. My monthly payment would go down $400.

Jumbo's have been hard to find banks or brokers who are refi'ing right now. In both cases, I can roll the costs into the new loan amount, which I plan to do (but am open to understand if I shouldn't).

I'm conscious that rates might drop lower in the coming months, especially for jumbos which seem to have seized up right now, and I'd look to refi again. If so, I'm leaning towards #2 because of the lower closing costs, thinking that the break even is a shorter time frame and I'm out fewer costs if I refi before break even. But I'm new to this so I'd appreciate help with what I should be thinking about deciding between the two.
Pretty good for a jumbo now - where did you get that?
Guaranteed Rate for one of them, and Chase for the other.
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Cobra Commander
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cobra Commander »

Has anyone gotten Quicken to match or beat their best offer? Better doesn't do loans in VA so not an option for me.
njdealguy
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by njdealguy »

Cobra Commander wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:03 pm Has anyone gotten Quicken to match or beat their best offer? Better doesn't do loans in VA so not an option for me.
I've tried with Rocket mortgage with the $2500 amex credit being offered but had a snotty agent who flat out said they won't match other online companies like LoanDepot as Rocket/Quicken is superior to them, etc. Wonder if anyone had better luck getting a good deal matched and receiving the Amex credit like Better
Gadget
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Gadget »

njdealguy wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:12 pm
Cobra Commander wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:03 pm Has anyone gotten Quicken to match or beat their best offer? Better doesn't do loans in VA so not an option for me.
I've tried with Rocket mortgage with the $2500 amex credit being offered but had a snotty agent who flat out said they won't match other online companies like LoanDepot as Rocket/Quicken is superior to them, etc. Wonder if anyone had better luck getting a good deal matched and receiving the Amex credit like Better
My Rocket guy was also kind of snotty. But he did say they'd beat offers, but only if the Loan Estimate was from today. My loan estimate was from yesterday, and he wouldn't deal.
Dmody91
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Dmody91 »

Who has actually received the amex statement credit?
learningtime
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by learningtime »

Likely shows how clueless I am about this ... but, do you all get multiple credit checks/pulls when mortgage shopping? How does this work?
Thanks in advance.
drk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drk »

learningtime wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:03 pm Likely shows how clueless I am about this ... but, do you all get multiple credit checks/pulls when mortgage shopping? How does this work?
Thanks in advance.
Yes, each application generates a hard pull at TU, EQ, and EX.
2quiker
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 2quiker »

Question, I recently refinanced and was asked for years worth of home owners insurance($780) and half year taxes ($1990) of prepaids and $497 of escrow. I received my first statement and noticed only $497 in my escrow, so my question is where $2770 shouldn't this also be in escrow as well?
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

2quiker wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:01 pm Question, I recently refinanced and was asked for years worth of home owners insurance($780) and half year taxes ($1990) and $497 of escrow. I received my first statement and noticed only $497 in my escrow, so my question is where $2770 shouldn't this also be in escrow as well?
It is likely with the title company to payout to the insurance company and the tax authority. You should be able to call the lender to confirm. That is what happened to me for my property tax prepaid. The taxes were confirmed paid by my town a few days after my loan funding.
bartl007
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bartl007 »

Just closed today on a refinance with better.com.

15 yr fixed
2.5%
Loan amount ~330k
Alabama
LTV 55%
Closing costs (a+b+c) of $1408+ $572 (E)

Very smooth process with better and no complaints. Good communication overall, but there are at least half a dozen people that are listed on the portal during the process which was a bit strange. got a no points quote from northpointe and better was able to match it and knock off $1k in closing costs. locked rate June 5, closed June 20th.

Overall should be getting paid a few hundred dollars to lower my rate after taking into account the Amex credit.

I did enter the last 5 digits of my Amex credit card a day or two before the final closing disclosure was issued.
2quiker
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 2quiker »

anon_investor wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:05 pm
2quiker wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:01 pm Question, I recently refinanced and was asked for years worth of home owners insurance($780) and half year taxes ($1990) and $497 of escrow. I received my first statement and noticed only $497 in my escrow, so my question is where $2770 shouldn't this also be in escrow as well?
It is likely with the title company to payout to the insurance company and the tax authority. You should be able to call the lender to confirm. That is what happened to me for my property tax prepaid. The taxes were confirmed paid by my town a few days after my loan funding.
My taxes were due for June 24th and my previous lender sent payment on June 15th and the shows paid on the county tax, my loan funded on June 10th. Sounds like this is going to be fun. I was going to call my current leander but I thought I would ask here and see what people had to say, thanks for the info.
e5116
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by e5116 »

drk wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:29 pm
learningtime wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:03 pm Likely shows how clueless I am about this ... but, do you all get multiple credit checks/pulls when mortgage shopping? How does this work?
Thanks in advance.
Yes, each application generates a hard pull at TU, EQ, and EX.
While true, note that there are protections in place that allow consumers to comparison shop without adverse effects. That is, multiple hard inquiries for the same thing in a certain window is equivalent to a single inquiry. For mortgages, that is 45 days with the newer models and 14 days with the old model. So, have no fear in having multiple inquiries in refinancing, but just do it in relative quick succession.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

2quiker wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:36 pm
anon_investor wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:05 pm
2quiker wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:01 pm Question, I recently refinanced and was asked for years worth of home owners insurance($780) and half year taxes ($1990) and $497 of escrow. I received my first statement and noticed only $497 in my escrow, so my question is where $2770 shouldn't this also be in escrow as well?
It is likely with the title company to payout to the insurance company and the tax authority. You should be able to call the lender to confirm. That is what happened to me for my property tax prepaid. The taxes were confirmed paid by my town a few days after my loan funding.
My taxes were due for June 24th and my previous lender sent payment on June 15th and the shows paid on the county tax, my loan funded on June 10th. Sounds like this is going to be fun. I was going to call my current leander but I thought I would ask here and see what people had to say, thanks for the info.
Yuck, what a mess. Good luck. Hopefully they don't pay your county tax twice, trying to get a refund on that might be a pain.
drk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drk »

e5116 wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:54 pm So, have no fear in having multiple inquiries in refinancing, but just do it in relative quick succession.
Yeah, people with good stats fear hard-pulls way more than they ought to. I have a lot of them, and I consistently get approved for way more credit than I want/need.
frankandbeans
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frankandbeans »

drk wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:16 am
e5116 wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:54 pm So, have no fear in having multiple inquiries in refinancing, but just do it in relative quick succession.
Yeah, people with good stats fear hard-pulls way more than they ought to. I have a lot of them, and I consistently get approved for way more credit than I want/need.
+1. And most of the effect of a hard pull goes away within 90 days.
jharkin
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jharkin »

frankandbeans wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:51 am
drk wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:16 am
e5116 wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:54 pm So, have no fear in having multiple inquiries in refinancing, but just do it in relative quick succession.
Yeah, people with good stats fear hard-pulls way more than they ought to. I have a lot of them, and I consistently get approved for way more credit than I want/need.
+1. And most of the effect of a hard pull goes away within 90 days.

+2. My current refi is our 3rd mortgage in 10 months, plus I opened a new CC last year. Credit scores still come back 790 and 810 or so ;))
learningtime
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by learningtime »

Thanks everyone for the responses around credit inquiries. Very helpful.
BabyDoctor77
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BabyDoctor77 »

-Can anyone please share what they are currently getting for Jumbo Refinances? If anyone is in Texas, any referrals would be appreciated.
BabyDoctor77
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BabyDoctor77 »

-Can anyone please share what they are currently getting for Jumbo Refinances? If anyone is in Texas, any referrals would be appreciated.
snailderby
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by snailderby »

learningtime wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:03 pm Likely shows how clueless I am about this ... but, do you all get multiple credit checks/pulls when mortgage shopping? How does this work?
Thanks in advance.
Don't let them pull your credit if you're just asking for a quick quote. When you've narrowed down the field and want to submit an official application to a handful of lenders, then yes, expect a hard pull.
asahopkins
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by asahopkins »

asahopkins wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:19 pm
All_About_Benjis wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:57 pm
asahopkins wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:00 pm We are refinancing our home, and I'm trying to work out whether to do a no-cost refi or pay points for a lower rate.

Situation:
Loan would be for ~$670k; LTV ~0.6. FICO 760+. Super-conforming.
We're going to be in this house forever (or let's assume so).

LenderFi is offering a no-cost at 3.0%, no points (costs ~$1600) for 2.875%, and 0.56 points ($3800 + $1600 costs) for 2.75%

Argument for the no-cost option: preserves the ability to refinance again in ~6 months if rates are lower. Right now, the spread between mortgage rates and treasuries is about 0.5 points above the long-term average. If Treasuries stay low (which seems likely given the pandemic) then mortgage rates should fall further.

Argument for paying for points: We'll be in the house for long enough to get the payoff. Only have to shop for refinance and do paperwork once. Rates may not fall further (or they may fall far enough that refinancing is worth it anyway -- e.g. if the no-cost level got down below 2.75%).

I welcome your thinking on this topic/choice. Thank you!
Quick question - are you getting these rates online or by calling? I've been on the hunt for a 3.0% with no cost to us, but LenderFi's online estimates include about $2000 in closing costs.
By calling. Rates about 0.125% (or so) less calling than they were online. Well: I filled out the online application, then they started emailing and calling me, and we got to where we are.
Just an update to share what we did, and what we just signed:

We just locked a 2.99% 30 year fixed with Loan Depot, with about $5700 in lender credit that more than cancels about $3700 in closing costs (A+B+C+D; not counting escrow, prepaid interest, etc). Basically, they'll pay us $2000 to refinance down from 3.75% to 2.99% and save almost $500/month.

You may see above that I was citing offers from LenderFi. We had a parallel conversation ongoing with a very committed salesperson at Loan Depot who said "whatever the other lender is offering, we'll match it or do better". So, I was carrying him along with LenderFi. He was able to match the 2.75% deal, with points. What I figured out was that the rate sheet of how interest rates vary with points paid (or credited) were different between LenderFi and Loan Depot. LenderFi was offering the same deal at 2.75% and 2.875% as Loan Depot, but at 3.0%, LenderFi was offering just "no cost" but not a credit. LoanDepot was offering a credit, so we shifted to their offer.

So, we ended up $2000 better off once we decided to go the "no cost" route. This takes the payback for points (if we had bought them) out past 8 years, and also means we preserve the option to refinance again in a few months if rates fall further.
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

asahopkins wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:02 am
asahopkins wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:19 pm
All_About_Benjis wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:57 pm
asahopkins wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:00 pm We are refinancing our home, and I'm trying to work out whether to do a no-cost refi or pay points for a lower rate.

Situation:
Loan would be for ~$670k; LTV ~0.6. FICO 760+. Super-conforming.
We're going to be in this house forever (or let's assume so).

LenderFi is offering a no-cost at 3.0%, no points (costs ~$1600) for 2.875%, and 0.56 points ($3800 + $1600 costs) for 2.75%

Argument for the no-cost option: preserves the ability to refinance again in ~6 months if rates are lower. Right now, the spread between mortgage rates and treasuries is about 0.5 points above the long-term average. If Treasuries stay low (which seems likely given the pandemic) then mortgage rates should fall further.

Argument for paying for points: We'll be in the house for long enough to get the payoff. Only have to shop for refinance and do paperwork once. Rates may not fall further (or they may fall far enough that refinancing is worth it anyway -- e.g. if the no-cost level got down below 2.75%).

I welcome your thinking on this topic/choice. Thank you!
Quick question - are you getting these rates online or by calling? I've been on the hunt for a 3.0% with no cost to us, but LenderFi's online estimates include about $2000 in closing costs.
By calling. Rates about 0.125% (or so) less calling than they were online. Well: I filled out the online application, then they started emailing and calling me, and we got to where we are.
Just an update to share what we did, and what we just signed:

We just locked a 2.99% 30 year fixed with Loan Depot, with about $5700 in lender credit that more than cancels about $3700 in closing costs (A+B+C+D; not counting escrow, prepaid interest, etc). Basically, they'll pay us $2000 to refinance down from 3.75% to 2.99% and save almost $500/month.

You may see above that I was citing offers from LenderFi. We had a parallel conversation ongoing with a very committed salesperson at Loan Depot who said "whatever the other lender is offering, we'll match it or do better". So, I was carrying him along with LenderFi. He was able to match the 2.75% deal, with points. What I figured out was that the rate sheet of how interest rates vary with points paid (or credited) were different between LenderFi and Loan Depot. LenderFi was offering the same deal at 2.75% and 2.875% as Loan Depot, but at 3.0%, LenderFi was offering just "no cost" but not a credit. LoanDepot was offering a credit, so we shifted to their offer.

So, we ended up $2000 better off once we decided to go the "no cost" route. This takes the payback for points (if we had bought them) out past 8 years, and also means we preserve the option to refinance again in a few months if rates fall further.
As others would say....now take this offer to Better and apply via the Amex promo. You may be able to get them to beat it by $1,000 and get an additional $2,500 as an Amex credit. Could even get you down another 1/8 to 2.875%.
Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 »

I don’t know what to do but I feel like I need to make a decision today because I’m starting to get happy feet.

I was all set to close on a refinance when I decided to try better. With the AMEX promo they came in significantly better than my first option.

I went back to first option and they originally didn’t match, and then I told them I was cancelling the closing and then they beat better w/ amex promo by $200. He asked me to let him know by end of day what I wanted to do last Friday. I went back to better to see if they’d match. They said they don’t match after rate lock but they’d see what they can do. Now I’ve emailed them twice to follow up and haven’t heard back.

I just want to finish up. I’m holding out that better will match and I’ll still get the $2500 but I’m kind of annoyed they haven’t responded and I feel bad leaving the other guy hanging.

All the work has been done on both loans—appraisal/approvals/etc. I just need to close.
frankandbeans
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frankandbeans »

Jags4186 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:36 am I don’t know what to do but I feel like I need to make a decision today because I’m starting to get happy feet.

I was all set to close on a refinance when I decided to try better. With the AMEX promo they came in significantly better than my first option.

I went back to first option and they originally didn’t match, and then I told them I was cancelling the closing and then they beat better w/ amex promo by $200. He asked me to let him know by end of day what I wanted to do last Friday. I went back to better to see if they’d match. They said they don’t match after rate lock but they’d see what they can do. Now I’ve emailed them twice to follow up and haven’t heard back.

I just want to finish up. I’m holding out that better will match and I’ll still get the $2500 but I’m kind of annoyed they haven’t responded and I feel bad leaving the other guy hanging.

All the work has been done on both loans—appraisal/approvals/etc. I just need to close.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the great. If you've got a great deal and are ready to close with little or no closing costs, just go ahead. You can always keep shopping after close.
jysharma
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jysharma »

WhyRWeHere wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:23 am
seawolf21 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:03 am
WhyRWeHere wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:57 am
seawolf21 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:58 am
Gadget wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:19 pm

I have (from the same house) all the papers signed from when we first bought the house, and the last refinance we did. I don't see title insurance papers anywhere. Just title insurance costs.

Think it's still worth asking Better to give the reissue rate? Or you specifically have to have the documentation?
You wouldn't have it because this is in reference to the lender's title insurance so the prior lender has it, not you. Some states don't have reissue rate.
Not true. You just need to send over your owner's policy to request a reissue rate. I guess they just need to know that title insurance exists on the property to qualify for the reduced rate. This article that I posted earlier even suggests that your prior closing statement might be enough as it lists the title insurance info. https://www.mtgprofessor.com/A%20-%20Ti ... Rates.html True not all states have reissue rates, but I think that most do.
Yes I read mortgage professor and it suggest home owner not having the lender policy is not uncommon. The settlement agent might or might not have provide a copy of the lender policy to home owner but they certainly would had provided a copy to the lender.
That article refers to the owner's policy (see underlined language):

A reissue is an extension of a current policy at a reduced premium, but to qualify borrowers must document that they have the policy that will be extended. The best way to do that is simply to produce the policy, but in many cases home buyers didn’t get a copy of the policy when they closed, and those that did may have lost it. If they don’t have a copy of their policy but they did retain the HUD1 closing document, the title policy will be identified there. Failing that, they may recall the closing agent who sold them the policy, or the lender, both of whom should have a copy.

There is an obvious moral here for home buyers: to avoid uncertainty and hassle, demand a copy of your title policy at closing, and place it in a secure place.


I sent over my owner policy and got the reissue rate. (Some buyers may also be able to get a reissue based off a seller's existing owner's policy.) FYI I'm not trying to argue with you. I just want people to be able to take advantage of the reissue rate if they can. According to this article, the title agent keeps 70-85% of the premium. https://www.federaltitle.com/title-insu ... al%2C%20et. Therefore, there is zero incentive for the title agent to let you know about the reissue rate. It should be mandatory that you automatically get the reissue rate, especially when most people don't know about it.
I looked up the HUD1 statement of my home purchase from 2016 and it shows "ALTA Loan Policy" under Title Charges. This I believe is the lender's policy and not owner's policy. I asked the title company and they refused to forward it by saying that it is the property of the lender even though I paid for it!
Can I still get the reissue rate during title for the refinance now using the loan policy from 2016?
Brain
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain »

Jags4186 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:36 am I don’t know what to do but I feel like I need to make a decision today because I’m starting to get happy feet.

I was all set to close on a refinance when I decided to try better. With the AMEX promo they came in significantly better than my first option.

I went back to first option and they originally didn’t match, and then I told them I was cancelling the closing and then they beat better w/ amex promo by $200. He asked me to let him know by end of day what I wanted to do last Friday. I went back to better to see if they’d match. They said they don’t match after rate lock but they’d see what they can do. Now I’ve emailed them twice to follow up and haven’t heard back.

I just want to finish up. I’m holding out that better will match and I’ll still get the $2500 but I’m kind of annoyed they haven’t responded and I feel bad leaving the other guy hanging.

All the work has been done on both loans—appraisal/approvals/etc. I just need to close.
I'm kinda in the same boat. I was moving along with Better, but Loan Depot came back within $800 of Better+Amex, so I took their offer back to Better and haven't heard back in almost a week. And then on Friday, my current lender said they could beat Better+Amex, but I'm waiting for the loan estimate. I'm also waiting on LenderFi to see if they can match or beat Better+Amex. But nobody is responding, at Better or other other places. I know they're busy, but come on...
WhyRWeHere
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WhyRWeHere »

jysharma wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:00 pm
WhyRWeHere wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:23 am
seawolf21 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:03 am
WhyRWeHere wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:57 am
seawolf21 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:58 am
You wouldn't have it because this is in reference to the lender's title insurance so the prior lender has it, not you. Some states don't have reissue rate.
Not true. You just need to send over your owner's policy to request a reissue rate. I guess they just need to know that title insurance exists on the property to qualify for the reduced rate. This article that I posted earlier even suggests that your prior closing statement might be enough as it lists the title insurance info. https://www.mtgprofessor.com/A%20-%20Ti ... Rates.html True not all states have reissue rates, but I think that most do.
Yes I read mortgage professor and it suggest home owner not having the lender policy is not uncommon. The settlement agent might or might not have provide a copy of the lender policy to home owner but they certainly would had provided a copy to the lender.
That article refers to the owner's policy (see underlined language):

A reissue is an extension of a current policy at a reduced premium, but to qualify borrowers must document that they have the policy that will be extended. The best way to do that is simply to produce the policy, but in many cases home buyers didn’t get a copy of the policy when they closed, and those that did may have lost it. If they don’t have a copy of their policy but they did retain the HUD1 closing document, the title policy will be identified there. Failing that, they may recall the closing agent who sold them the policy, or the lender, both of whom should have a copy.

There is an obvious moral here for home buyers: to avoid uncertainty and hassle, demand a copy of your title policy at closing, and place it in a secure place.


I sent over my owner policy and got the reissue rate. (Some buyers may also be able to get a reissue based off a seller's existing owner's policy.) FYI I'm not trying to argue with you. I just want people to be able to take advantage of the reissue rate if they can. According to this article, the title agent keeps 70-85% of the premium. https://www.federaltitle.com/title-insu ... al%2C%20et. Therefore, there is zero incentive for the title agent to let you know about the reissue rate. It should be mandatory that you automatically get the reissue rate, especially when most people don't know about it.
I looked up the HUD1 statement of my home purchase from 2016 and it shows "ALTA Loan Policy" under Title Charges. This I believe is the lender's policy and not owner's policy. I asked the title company and they refused to forward it by saying that it is the property of the lender even though I paid for it!
Can I still get the reissue rate during title for the refinance now using the loan policy from 2016?
I don't know. I had my owner's policy so I didn't need to look into it any further. As for the number of years back you can go, each state is different. All I know is that NJ is 10 years. Ask the new title company if you can get the reissue rate in your state, and if you can get it, ask what you need to give them.
Gadget
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Gadget »

asahopkins wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:02 am
asahopkins wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:19 pm
All_About_Benjis wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:57 pm
asahopkins wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:00 pm We are refinancing our home, and I'm trying to work out whether to do a no-cost refi or pay points for a lower rate.

Situation:
Loan would be for ~$670k; LTV ~0.6. FICO 760+. Super-conforming.
We're going to be in this house forever (or let's assume so).

LenderFi is offering a no-cost at 3.0%, no points (costs ~$1600) for 2.875%, and 0.56 points ($3800 + $1600 costs) for 2.75%

Argument for the no-cost option: preserves the ability to refinance again in ~6 months if rates are lower. Right now, the spread between mortgage rates and treasuries is about 0.5 points above the long-term average. If Treasuries stay low (which seems likely given the pandemic) then mortgage rates should fall further.

Argument for paying for points: We'll be in the house for long enough to get the payoff. Only have to shop for refinance and do paperwork once. Rates may not fall further (or they may fall far enough that refinancing is worth it anyway -- e.g. if the no-cost level got down below 2.75%).

I welcome your thinking on this topic/choice. Thank you!
Quick question - are you getting these rates online or by calling? I've been on the hunt for a 3.0% with no cost to us, but LenderFi's online estimates include about $2000 in closing costs.
By calling. Rates about 0.125% (or so) less calling than they were online. Well: I filled out the online application, then they started emailing and calling me, and we got to where we are.
Just an update to share what we did, and what we just signed:

We just locked a 2.99% 30 year fixed with Loan Depot, with about $5700 in lender credit that more than cancels about $3700 in closing costs (A+B+C+D; not counting escrow, prepaid interest, etc). Basically, they'll pay us $2000 to refinance down from 3.75% to 2.99% and save almost $500/month.

You may see above that I was citing offers from LenderFi. We had a parallel conversation ongoing with a very committed salesperson at Loan Depot who said "whatever the other lender is offering, we'll match it or do better". So, I was carrying him along with LenderFi. He was able to match the 2.75% deal, with points. What I figured out was that the rate sheet of how interest rates vary with points paid (or credited) were different between LenderFi and Loan Depot. LenderFi was offering the same deal at 2.75% and 2.875% as Loan Depot, but at 3.0%, LenderFi was offering just "no cost" but not a credit. LoanDepot was offering a credit, so we shifted to their offer.

So, we ended up $2000 better off once we decided to go the "no cost" route. This takes the payback for points (if we had bought them) out past 8 years, and also means we preserve the option to refinance again in a few months if rates fall further.
This seems to jive with my experience on LenderFi where it seemed that their offers were always better without lender credits and it had some closing costs. Which makes sense from their standpoint; they want you to have a >0 break even point so you don't immediately switch soon.
Gadget
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Gadget »

WhyRWeHere wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:48 pm I don't know. I had my owner's policy so I didn't need to look into it any further. As for the number of years back you can go, each state is different. All I know is that NJ is 10 years. Ask the new title company if you can get the reissue rate in your state, and if you can get it, ask what you need to give them.
Why did you have an owner's title policy in the first place? Did you pay in full/cash at some point?

I only ever had a lender's policy for my last refinances. Which isn't eligible for a reissue rate unless I go with the exact same title company and they give me a discount anyway. But I can't take a lender's policy to Better and have them use it unless I last used Better in my last refinance from what I can tell.
WhyRWeHere
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WhyRWeHere »

Gadget wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:04 pm
WhyRWeHere wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:48 pm I don't know. I had my owner's policy so I didn't need to look into it any further. As for the number of years back you can go, each state is different. All I know is that NJ is 10 years. Ask the new title company if you can get the reissue rate in your state, and if you can get it, ask what you need to give them.
Why did you have an owner's title policy in the first place? Did you pay in full/cash at some point?

I only ever had a lender's policy for my last refinances. Which isn't eligible for a reissue rate unless I go with the exact same title company and they give me a discount anyway. But I can't take a lender's policy to Better and have them use it unless I last used Better in my last refinance from what I can tell.
I've always had both a lender and owner policy. The lender policy only covers up to the loan amount. The owner's policy covers up to the purchase price.
nic3456
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

Jags4186 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:41 am Just to update you all on my Better refinance. I’ve hit my first head scratcher.

Yesterday my estimated closing costs and cash to close were the same amount, $2600. Now today, the loan estimate has changed and the closing costs are still $2600 but the cash to close is now $3600. I was fine with $2600 because I’d be getting $2500 back from AMEX. I’m not fine with $3600. Nothing in A-J has changed. What seems to have changed is the “estimated total payoffs and payments” seems to have increased $1000. Fortunately I downloaded the old estimate... The payoff amount should actually drop, not increase, because I’ll be making a July mortgage payment

Will update you.
Anything new here? Mine did something similar and went from ~$600 to $1800. My regular payment is due next week - I'm thinking/hoping its the Interest I will be paying with that payment and then they asked for like a 60 day payoff quote
Last edited by nic3456 on Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 »

nic3456 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:18 pm
Jags4186 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:41 am Just to update you all on my Better refinance. I’ve hit my first head scratcher.

Yesterday my estimated closing costs and cash to close were the same amount, $2600. Now today, the loan estimate has changed and the closing costs are still $2600 but the cash to close is now $3600. I was fine with $2600 because I’d be getting $2500 back from AMEX. I’m not fine with $3600. Nothing in A-J has changed. What seems to have changed is the “estimated total payoffs and payments” seems to have increased $1000. Fortunately I downloaded the old estimate... The payoff amount should actually drop, not increase, because I’ll be making a July mortgage payment

Will update you.
Anything new here? Mine did something similar and went from ~$600 to $1800. My regular payment is due next week - I'm thinking/hoping its the Interest I will be paying with that payment and then they asked for like a 60 day payoff quote or something.
Yes, I received a letter from better saying they are using the pay off amount of the mortgage based on 7/31 but are not taking into account any additional payments—i.e. the payment due 7/1. I would be refunded the difference after closing.

FWIW I’ve decided not to move forward with Better.
Gadget
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Gadget »

WhyRWeHere wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:15 pm
Gadget wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:04 pm
WhyRWeHere wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:48 pm I don't know. I had my owner's policy so I didn't need to look into it any further. As for the number of years back you can go, each state is different. All I know is that NJ is 10 years. Ask the new title company if you can get the reissue rate in your state, and if you can get it, ask what you need to give them.
Why did you have an owner's title policy in the first place? Did you pay in full/cash at some point?

I only ever had a lender's policy for my last refinances. Which isn't eligible for a reissue rate unless I go with the exact same title company and they give me a discount anyway. But I can't take a lender's policy to Better and have them use it unless I last used Better in my last refinance from what I can tell.
I've always had both a lender and owner policy. The lender policy only covers up to the loan amount. The owner's policy covers up to the purchase price.
Is this something you always went and did on your own? Do some states require having an owner's policy and some don't?

It appears that my state doesn't require an owner's title policy and I've never gotten one. I've only ever had lender's title policies.
WhyRWeHere
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WhyRWeHere »

Gadget wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:40 pm
WhyRWeHere wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:15 pm
Gadget wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:04 pm
WhyRWeHere wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:48 pm I don't know. I had my owner's policy so I didn't need to look into it any further. As for the number of years back you can go, each state is different. All I know is that NJ is 10 years. Ask the new title company if you can get the reissue rate in your state, and if you can get it, ask what you need to give them.
Why did you have an owner's title policy in the first place? Did you pay in full/cash at some point?

I only ever had a lender's policy for my last refinances. Which isn't eligible for a reissue rate unless I go with the exact same title company and they give me a discount anyway. But I can't take a lender's policy to Better and have them use it unless I last used Better in my last refinance from what I can tell.
I've always had both a lender and owner policy. The lender policy only covers up to the loan amount. The owner's policy covers up to the purchase price.
Is this something you always went and did on your own? Do some states require having an owner's policy and some don't?

It appears that my state doesn't require an owner's title policy and I've never gotten one. I've only ever had lender's title policies.
In my experience in NJ, both the lender and owner's premiums are always added to the closing costs. I believe that the owner's policy is optional in NJ. For a few hundred dollars, I'd rather have it. Not that it would change my mind one way or the other, but my present house was a foreclosure where the prior owner died during the foreclosure process. It's nice knowing that I'm covered if something was not done properly with the transfer of title.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Gadget wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:40 pmIs this something you always went and did on your own? Do some states require having an owner's policy and some don't?

It appears that my state doesn't require an owner's title policy and I've never gotten one. I've only ever had lender's title policies.
For me, while it hasn’t ever been required to have an owner’s policy for any of our transactions in FL or NC, we have always gotten it. At this point I don’t remember the dollar amounts for FL, but in NC, it has been negligible cost. On the order of under $100 to get the owner’s policy. As such, it was worth it to me to get it not only for it covering the purchase price (vs. mortgage cost), but also for ease of activity. While I’m paying for it, the lender’s title policy is for the lender and I’m not guaranteed to have a copy of it like I am for the owner’s policy. Thus, for little cost, I also got the owner’s policy to avoid issues like jysharma above where the title policy company refuses to work with jysharma as it isn’t their policy to get a copy of.
MapleSyrup
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MapleSyrup »

Is there anything wrong with switching lenders after you have locked in with one???
njdealguy
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by njdealguy »

Brain wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:02 pm
Jags4186 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:36 am I don’t know what to do but I feel like I need to make a decision today because I’m starting to get happy feet.

I was all set to close on a refinance when I decided to try better. With the AMEX promo they came in significantly better than my first option.

I went back to first option and they originally didn’t match, and then I told them I was cancelling the closing and then they beat better w/ amex promo by $200. He asked me to let him know by end of day what I wanted to do last Friday. I went back to better to see if they’d match. They said they don’t match after rate lock but they’d see what they can do. Now I’ve emailed them twice to follow up and haven’t heard back.

I just want to finish up. I’m holding out that better will match and I’ll still get the $2500 but I’m kind of annoyed they haven’t responded and I feel bad leaving the other guy hanging.

All the work has been done on both loans—appraisal/approvals/etc. I just need to close.
I'm kinda in the same boat. I was moving along with Better, but Loan Depot came back within $800 of Better+Amex, so I took their offer back to Better and haven't heard back in almost a week. And then on Friday, my current lender said they could beat Better+Amex, but I'm waiting for the loan estimate. I'm also waiting on LenderFi to see if they can match or beat Better+Amex. But nobody is responding, at Better or other other places. I know they're busy, but come on...
Seems to me they might be kind of choking at this point where doesn't really want to go down further on the matching but isn't yet letting you know either. Something similar happened with a coworker also refinancing with Better and it seems to be harder to play them once have initially locked the rate.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

MapleSyrup wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:47 pm Is there anything wrong with switching lenders after you have locked in with one???
No, but you may be on the hook for some fees like appraisal fee, rate lock fee, app fee. All should have already been collected though, so you would only be out what you’ve already spent.
MapleSyrup
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MapleSyrup »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:59 pm
MapleSyrup wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:47 pm Is there anything wrong with switching lenders after you have locked in with one???
No, but you may be on the hook for some fees like appraisal fee, rate lock fee, app fee. All should have already been collected though, so you would only be out what you’ve already spent.
OK, I haven’t paid anything.
Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 »

MapleSyrup wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:47 pm Is there anything wrong with switching lenders after you have locked in with one???
I keep shopping until I close. Unless you get charged for something like an appraisal there’s no reason not to keep looking.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Anonymous Coward »

Very much appreciate this thread, it has been most helpful.

We locked last week on a refinance loan from Better.com.

30-year FRM
3.125%
Loan amount ~$330K, with ~$50K cash out
California
LTV ~40%
Closing costs (A + B + C) of ~$1400 + taxes and prepaid interest of ~$800, so total closing costs of ~$2200, expecting AmEx statement credit of $2500, but they were not competitive until supplied with a GFE from another lender to beat.

We shopped with a few others:
  • Owning.com, broker was nonresponsive and generally very unhelpful, refused to provide a GFE in the expected format, rate was better (2.99%) but fees were higher (~$5K) for the same loan;
  • Local mortgage broker, same loan details as Better.com, with fees of $4K, and total closing costs (with a credit) of ~$3200;
  • LenderFi, refused cash-out, but offered 20-year FRM for 2.875% with closing costs (A + B + C) of $1150, but total closing costs (with a credit) of ~$0.
Best of luck with your own refi/purchase!
ensign_lee
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ensign_lee »

One more datapoint:

Closed today on a 2.75% 30 year, no points. $700 in lender's credits and waiving the origination charges led to final closing costs of roughly $1300. Saving $150/month so I break even in roughly 9 months.

Just went with a lender that was on bankrate: Residential Home Funding Corp. It was weirdly easy - I expected way more hurdles. The only problems that seemed to come up seemed to stem from my mortgage lender being slammed and not answering some of my questions until I bugged him about it. We were still putting together the final closing disclosure today, the day I closed, because there was confusion regarding the payoff amounts and amount that I had to escrow.

If I could do it again, I think I'd go for a 2.875% 30 year so that way I wouldn't be out of pocket anything, and so could refinance if rates somehow went even lower in the next 12 months - but oh well, what's done is done.
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

Has anyone had issues with your rate lock expiring at Better? I locked on 5/27 and am due to expire on 6/26 (30-day lock). They are running into delays getting subordination documentation/approval from Wells Fargo who holds my HELOC. Better just told me this today and say it's going to cost me $146/day after the lock expires to keep the loan active. This hardly seems fair to me given I turned around everything they asked from my within 1 day of their request, and this delay is out of my control. Better is saying it's out of their control too, but I know they didn't request the information from Wells on day 1 of the process, so technically I could say they should have done it right away if it was going to hold things up. I've made this point, but I expect them to push back. Would love to hear if anyone ran into a similar issue.
gxa
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gxa »

We just refinanced with LenderFi. LTV 50%. 2.5% 10-year loan with lender credits offsetting all charges. :D

We did close our HELOC during the process. The gentleman helping us at LenderFi suggested subordinating the HELOC could make things a bit more complicated.
Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 »

njdealguy wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:54 pm
Brain wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:02 pm
Jags4186 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:36 am I don’t know what to do but I feel like I need to make a decision today because I’m starting to get happy feet.

I was all set to close on a refinance when I decided to try better. With the AMEX promo they came in significantly better than my first option.

I went back to first option and they originally didn’t match, and then I told them I was cancelling the closing and then they beat better w/ amex promo by $200. He asked me to let him know by end of day what I wanted to do last Friday. I went back to better to see if they’d match. They said they don’t match after rate lock but they’d see what they can do. Now I’ve emailed them twice to follow up and haven’t heard back.

I just want to finish up. I’m holding out that better will match and I’ll still get the $2500 but I’m kind of annoyed they haven’t responded and I feel bad leaving the other guy hanging.

All the work has been done on both loans—appraisal/approvals/etc. I just need to close.
I'm kinda in the same boat. I was moving along with Better, but Loan Depot came back within $800 of Better+Amex, so I took their offer back to Better and haven't heard back in almost a week. And then on Friday, my current lender said they could beat Better+Amex, but I'm waiting for the loan estimate. I'm also waiting on LenderFi to see if they can match or beat Better+Amex. But nobody is responding, at Better or other other places. I know they're busy, but come on...
Seems to me they might be kind of choking at this point where doesn't really want to go down further on the matching but isn't yet letting you know either. Something similar happened with a coworker also refinancing with Better and it seems to be harder to play them once have initially locked the rate.
I’m actually at my wits end here. I emailed Better twice about matching the new loan and never heard back. I emailed the broker and said I’d go with him. I receive an email from Better at 10:20pm saying they should be able to match the loan tomorrow and provide me with an updated estimate plus get me the $2500 from AMEX.

I just want it to end but $2500 is $2500. Also I feel really badly about stringing the broker along.
kski74
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Post by kski74 »

njdealguy wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:12 pm
Cobra Commander wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:03 pm Has anyone gotten Quicken to match or beat their best offer? Better doesn't do loans in VA so not an option for me.
I've tried with Rocket mortgage with the $2500 amex credit being offered but had a snotty agent who flat out said they won't match other online companies like LoanDepot as Rocket/Quicken is superior to them, etc. Wonder if anyone had better luck getting a good deal matched and receiving the Amex credit like Better
I got them to match a rate in April, but then they pulled a quick one on me when I told them that I was ready to move forward. At that point, theu announced that they stopped doing locks and would match the closing costs, but could only lock after we got final approval from underwriting, which they estimated to take 3-4 weeks. That's a pretty big gamble... If you look back in the history of this thread, you will find details of my experience with them. It was very poor all around and the snotty attitude from their agents got tiresome.
Seattler123
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Seattler123 »

Better.com did match the 3.0% rate with $1k less in fees. Locked with them. Don't have AmEx :( so no $2500 cashback.
The original rates on better.com were higher than my current rate of 3.75, it was only due to the competing offer the rate came down so much.

Final details:
Superconforming/high balance loan - $620k
30 year fixed 3.0%
Total cost - Credit of $300. With appraisal waiver, it comes to -$850.
Seattler123 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:32 pm
Seattler123 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:45 am Getting 30 year fixed at 3.125 with 0 points, 0 origination fee, appraisal waived for $620k loan in Seattle area (High balance non-jumbo conforming loan).
This is with a lender I got from Zillow (Sebonic). Still waiting to see if better.com can better this. Their current rates are showing up as 3.75%, so I'll be surprised if they can match this.

Previous mortgage:
06/2019 - Refinance with better.com. $630k loan at 3.75%
06/2018 - Purchase. $650k loan at 4.25%
Haven't heard back from Better.com today but I see better rates today via zillow/bankrate.
Farmers bank of KC and CFBank are the lenders with 3.0% interest rates (with title fees and appraisal if needed). Anyone has any experience with either of these?
Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 »

Jags4186 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:32 pm
njdealguy wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:54 pm
Brain wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:02 pm
Jags4186 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:36 am I don’t know what to do but I feel like I need to make a decision today because I’m starting to get happy feet.

I was all set to close on a refinance when I decided to try better. With the AMEX promo they came in significantly better than my first option.

I went back to first option and they originally didn’t match, and then I told them I was cancelling the closing and then they beat better w/ amex promo by $200. He asked me to let him know by end of day what I wanted to do last Friday. I went back to better to see if they’d match. They said they don’t match after rate lock but they’d see what they can do. Now I’ve emailed them twice to follow up and haven’t heard back.

I just want to finish up. I’m holding out that better will match and I’ll still get the $2500 but I’m kind of annoyed they haven’t responded and I feel bad leaving the other guy hanging.

All the work has been done on both loans—appraisal/approvals/etc. I just need to close.
I'm kinda in the same boat. I was moving along with Better, but Loan Depot came back within $800 of Better+Amex, so I took their offer back to Better and haven't heard back in almost a week. And then on Friday, my current lender said they could beat Better+Amex, but I'm waiting for the loan estimate. I'm also waiting on LenderFi to see if they can match or beat Better+Amex. But nobody is responding, at Better or other other places. I know they're busy, but come on...
Seems to me they might be kind of choking at this point where doesn't really want to go down further on the matching but isn't yet letting you know either. Something similar happened with a coworker also refinancing with Better and it seems to be harder to play them once have initially locked the rate.
I’m actually at my wits end here. I emailed Better twice about matching the new loan and never heard back. I emailed the broker and said I’d go with him. I receive an email from Better at 10:20pm saying they should be able to match the loan tomorrow and provide me with an updated estimate plus get me the $2500 from AMEX.

I just want it to end but $2500 is $2500. Also I feel really badly about stringing the broker along.
Better has now come back with the following:

30 year fixed
2.875%
$3,469 Lender credit
$2,500 AMEX credit
A+B+C = $1,493

I feel like a jerk but...back to the original broker to tell him that it’s off again.
Last edited by Jags4186 on Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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