Refinance Mega Thread

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AlphaLess
Posts: 2706
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Location: Kentucky

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by AlphaLess »

presto987 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:37 pm
AlphaLess wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:14 pm better.com

High-rise condo
LTV < 60%

15-year
1.875%
receive $750 lender credit
A+B+C = $1.2K
That is great! Did you have them price match someone else? If not, did you link to Better from another site like bankrate?
their price was already good, but i had them price-match to the lowest.

but the weird thing is that the price-match worked out to be way better than what the other company was.

better originally had me at 2.125% with a decent credit (like $1k). to go down to 2.00% was like inordinate amount of dollars (like pay $2.2K, which is a swing of $3.2K, vs a loan amount of 500K, so 0.65%, or something like 6 years worth of interest).

the other company offered 2.125% with a slightly higher credit than better. But to go down to 2.000% was less than a $1K swing. So, pay $1k to reduce interest rate by 0.125%. I asked them if they can go even lower at that pay-down. I don't think lending officer wanted to check (just wanted to proceed).

When I presented that to better, they decided I should get a 1.875% with a smaller credit. Relative to the original better deal, it was a swing of almost $6.5K in my favor. it is also possible that the rate had dropped, so they were able to give a better deal.

I have no idea how they price-matched that deal.

all said and done, paid around $500K in refi-costs (everything else was prepaids).
Interest rate went from 2.75% 5x1 ARM to 1.875% 15 fixed.

I think around $18K savings in 5 years.

Not bad for a few hours of work.

I have to say my better team was the nicest, most responsive, most competent set of people.

The closing notary, on the other hand, was the biggest prik I have met in my life.
Incompetent too.

And I am still getting calls from loan depot "retention department" asking why I did not go with them.
kid you not.
"A Republic, if you can keep it". Benjamin Franklin. 1787. | Party affiliation: Vanguard. Religion: low-cost investing.
gpburdell
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:01 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gpburdell »

Has anyone refinanced with no regular salary and instead used IRA distributions as income? I haven't worked in over a year as I took time off to help care for my ailing parents and get all their affairs in order. I probably won't start working again till next year once a covid vaccine is proven and depending on how my parents are doing.

I want to refinance my mortgage now as I currently have a 398k mortgage @ 4.5% with 28 years left and my home is worth ~550k. I've read that on Dec 1, a 0.5% refinance fee will kick in so I would like to refinance now instead of waiting till next year.

I've been using savings in taxable accounts to live off, but started taking 10k monthly distributions from my IRA since August. I've read in older threads that some lenders have allowed IRA distributions as monthly income to qualify for the mortgage. Also, I've read about asset depletion loans. While I have assets of over double the mortgage, I don't think I have enough based on formulas I've seen.

Any advice, feedback would be greatly appreciated especially if you've been able to do this. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post here. Thanks!
Calirefi2020
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:55 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Calirefi2020 »

I’m looking for advice on my PMI removal: (home value: 760k,new loan balance: $616,500)

I had just closed refi 2 weeks ago with Lenderfi. During the refi process, lender had advised me to wait until loan was closed to pay down principal to 78% LTV and my PMI falls off ..Their reason was I would be getting 0 cost refinance this way as over 80% is insured area.
Anyways, now that loan is closed , I reached out to them regarding PMI removal and I was told to bring my loan balance below 592,093. I am a bit confused by this # .. I think they are going by amortization schedule. I was under the impression that I would bring balance below $592,800 ( ie .78*760,000).. I’m seeing a difference of 707$ extra payment towards principal ( $592,800-$592,093) in order to get down to 78% LTV..

The way I see forward is with one of the following options:

1) pay down to $592,093, take $707 hit and have PMI removed
2) continue making PMI (82$) and start refinancing again this time trying for a no PMI option


Can I get your inputs on my situation? Thanks
mw1739
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:44 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mw1739 »

Calirefi2020 wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:42 am I’m looking for advice on my PMI removal: (home value: 760k,new loan balance: $616,500)

I had just closed refi 2 weeks ago with Lenderfi. During the refi process, lender had advised me to wait until loan was closed to pay down principal to 78% LTV and my PMI falls off ..Their reason was I would be getting 0 cost refinance this way as over 80% is insured area.
Anyways, now that loan is closed , I reached out to them regarding PMI removal and I was told to bring my loan balance below 592,093. I am a bit confused by this # .. I think they are going by amortization schedule. I was under the impression that I would bring balance below $592,800 ( ie .78*760,000).. I’m seeing a difference of 707$ extra payment towards principal ( $592,800-$592,093) in order to get down to 78% LTV..

The way I see forward is with one of the following options:

1) pay down to $592,093, take $707 hit and have PMI removed
2) continue making PMI (82$) and start refinancing again this time trying for a no PMI option


Can I get your inputs on my situation? Thanks
Why would you go through the trouble of refinancing over $700? On a loan that size you’ve got to be paying more than $700 a month in principal monthly anyway, so just make a payment and then pay down the loan.
bluebolt
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bluebolt »

gpburdell wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:17 am I want to refinance my mortgage now as I currently have a 398k mortgage @ 4.5% with 28 years left and my home is worth ~550k. I've read that on Dec 1, a 0.5% refinance fee will kick in so I would like to refinance now instead of waiting till next year.
You won't close/your loan won't be sold until after 12/1, so that fee is already baked in. It's a fee that lenders pay, so it will be priced into your loan, you won't see a direct additional fee.
wolingfeng
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Location: Syracuse, New York

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by wolingfeng »

Hi everyone,

First thanks for all the info from everyone. I read some of the recent refinance posts here and looks like through various post, people got deals with minimum closing fee with great rate for 15-30 years via different loan companies. I just got one loan rate quote yesterday for my loan.

Current 30 year mortgage 196k left, current interest rate 3.875% (NYS)

quote from Better Mortgage, they were able to offer 2.5% for 30 years, but I do have to pay around 4k for points, and additionally they charge 1.7k for attorney fee and appraisal, however, according to them, I may be eligible to waive the appraisal fee, so it could be down to 1200; and then title related fee is around 1.7k, which could seem on the higher end because that's the title agency they offer, I understand I have the option to choose my own. And I would be rolling those closing cost into the newly refinanced mortgage, which means I pay very little upfront.

Does the number look alright to you guys in term of the cost? So according to the calculation, it would significantly knock down my monthly mortgage from 970 ish to 820 ish, which looks very nice (almost feel too good to be true, as this is my first time doing refinance).

I did also compare the cost from Quicken Loan, and they didn't even have the option to offer for lower interest rate, the lowest they offered was 3% for 30 years, which doesn't seem as good as what Better is offering.
Calirefi2020
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:55 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Calirefi2020 »

mw1739 wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:31 am
Calirefi2020 wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:42 am I’m looking for advice on my PMI removal: (home value: 760k,new loan balance: $616,500)

I had just closed refi 2 weeks ago with Lenderfi. During the refi process, lender had advised me to wait until loan was closed to pay down principal to 78% LTV and my PMI falls off ..Their reason was I would be getting 0 cost refinance this way as over 80% is insured area.
Anyways, now that loan is closed , I reached out to them regarding PMI removal and I was told to bring my loan balance below 592,093. I am a bit confused by this # .. I think they are going by amortization schedule. I was under the impression that I would bring balance below $592,800 ( ie .78*760,000).. I’m seeing a difference of 707$ extra payment towards principal ( $592,800-$592,093) in order to get down to 78% LTV..

The way I see forward is with one of the following options:

1) pay down to $592,093, take $707 hit and have PMI removed
2) continue making PMI (82$) and start refinancing again this time trying for a no PMI option


Can I get your inputs on my situation? Thanks
Why would you go through the trouble of refinancing over $700? On a loan that size you’ve got to be paying more than $700 a month in principal monthly anyway, so just make a payment and then pay down the loan.
Is loan recast a good option?
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BrandonBogle
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

mw1739 wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:31 am
Calirefi2020 wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:42 am I’m looking for advice on my PMI removal: (home value: 760k,new loan balance: $616,500)

I had just closed refi 2 weeks ago with Lenderfi. During the refi process, lender had advised me to wait until loan was closed to pay down principal to 78% LTV and my PMI falls off ..Their reason was I would be getting 0 cost refinance this way as over 80% is insured area.
Anyways, now that loan is closed , I reached out to them regarding PMI removal and I was told to bring my loan balance below 592,093. I am a bit confused by this # .. I think they are going by amortization schedule. I was under the impression that I would bring balance below $592,800 ( ie .78*760,000).. I’m seeing a difference of 707$ extra payment towards principal ( $592,800-$592,093) in order to get down to 78% LTV..

The way I see forward is with one of the following options:

1) pay down to $592,093, take $707 hit and have PMI removed
2) continue making PMI (82$) and start refinancing again this time trying for a no PMI option


Can I get your inputs on my situation? Thanks
Why would you go through the trouble of refinancing over $700? On a loan that size you’ve got to be paying more than $700 a month in principal monthly anyway, so just make a payment and then pay down the loan.
Especially given it isn’t a “$707 hit” as in money lost, but reducing principal. I concur with mw1739, pay the extra $707 in principal and move on in life.
Calirefi2020
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:55 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Calirefi2020 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:44 pm
mw1739 wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:31 am
Calirefi2020 wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:42 am I’m looking for advice on my PMI removal: (home value: 760k,new loan balance: $616,500)

I had just closed refi 2 weeks ago with Lenderfi. During the refi process, lender had advised me to wait until loan was closed to pay down principal to 78% LTV and my PMI falls off ..Their reason was I would be getting 0 cost refinance this way as over 80% is insured area.
Anyways, now that loan is closed , I reached out to them regarding PMI removal and I was told to bring my loan balance below 592,093. I am a bit confused by this # .. I think they are going by amortization schedule. I was under the impression that I would bring balance below $592,800 ( ie .78*760,000).. I’m seeing a difference of 707$ extra payment towards principal ( $592,800-$592,093) in order to get down to 78% LTV..

The way I see forward is with one of the following options:

1) pay down to $592,093, take $707 hit and have PMI removed
2) continue making PMI (82$) and start refinancing again this time trying for a no PMI option


Can I get your inputs on my situation? Thanks
Why would you go through the trouble of refinancing over $700? On a loan that size you’ve got to be paying more than $700 a month in principal monthly anyway, so just make a payment and then pay down the loan.
Especially given it isn’t a “$707 hit” as in money lost, but reducing principal. I concur with mw1739, pay the extra $707 in principal and move on in life.
Great, thank you guys for your inputs.. clearly I was overthinking this.. I will just pay and move on..
101carrots
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:50 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 101carrots »

Quick update

2.0%
15 year fixed
Maine
433 loan total
573 home value

A - $2429 - .559% points.
B - $614
C - $1,311
E - $104
F - $362
G - $4208
(-)
Lender Credit ($9,028)
=

Lender paying my entire escrow for taxes/insurance? That's excellent.

Going with this one - from Better

Also - my wife thinks we're getting scammed by better
I told her it's a real company! But this really does appear to be too good to be true.


TL;DR - too good to be true. Back to the drawing board.
Last edited by 101carrots on Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
Soares1234
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Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:50 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Soares1234 »

mega317 wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:04 pm
InvestDoc wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:18 am
RollinFreight wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:11 pm Owning sold my Mortgage at 2.5% to PHH Mortgage. Reviews say they are not very good in terms of customer service (fees, escrow errors, late Prop tax payments, etc.). I was looking at Interactive Mortgage at 2.35% no cost. It will cost me $600 after two refinances (recording fees, doc fees, etc). IM uses CMG Mortgage for servicing. are they better than PHH?
Not a lot of data on CMG. BBB has more complaints on PHH that bothers me (fees/business integrity issues) and PHH has litigations from customer side. should I refi just for this?
I refinanced with Owning and they sold my mortgage to PHH. I've made 2 payments to PHH without issue but am in the process of refinancing again. Some of the reviews on BBB scared me too, including reports of not crediting the payments on time. They supposedly charge $7.50 for paying by phone but online it's free. You can't set up automatic payment until the day your mortgage is officially transferred (which was on the day my mortgage was due, but I was still able to link my bank account and submit a payment same day).

The only sketchy thing they've done so far is to send me a letter saying I'm not insured enough and they wanted me to buy enough insurance to cover the full loan amount (even though Owning had no issue with my insurance coverage). However, my homeowner's insurance company said it is illegal for them to ask me to overinsure the home and that by law the insurance company can only provide insurance for the rebuild cost, which obviously is less than the home purchase price due to the value of the land. They sent a letter to PHH quoting the California Civil Code overinsurance law and I never heard anything further from PHH. Also, PHH said in their letter that they would not buy additional insurance on my behalf, but I believe some reviews on BBB said they did that.
Owning just sold mine to US bank. I haven’t heard much about them but being a larger bank I’m hopeful they will be easy to work with. I do plan to make irregular additional principal payments which seems like a problem with some of the services.
USBank is good at least in my experience with them. On there online portal, they have an option you can select that states to add additional payments to the principal balance etc.
presto987
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Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

101carrots wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:00 pm Quick update

2.0%
15 year fixed
Maine
433 loan total
573 home value

A - $2429 - .559% points.
B - $614
C - $1,311
E - $104
F - $362
G - $4208
(-)
Lender Credit ($9,028)
=

Lender paying my entire escrow for taxes/insurance? That's excellent.

Going with this one - from Better

Also - my wife thinks we're getting scammed by better
I told her it's a real company! But this really does appear to be too good to be true.
It’s odd that you have both points and lender credit. Normally if you have points there is no lender credit, and once your points go down to zero then you start getting lender credit after that.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

presto987 wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:17 pm
101carrots wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:00 pm Quick update

2.0%
15 year fixed
Maine
433 loan total
573 home value

A - $2429 - .559% points.
B - $614
C - $1,311
E - $104
F - $362
G - $4208
(-)
Lender Credit ($9,028)
=

Lender paying my entire escrow for taxes/insurance? That's excellent.

Going with this one - from Better

Also - my wife thinks we're getting scammed by better
I told her it's a real company! But this really does appear to be too good to be true.
It’s odd that you have both points and lender credit. Normally if you have points there is no lender credit, and once your points go down to zero then you start getting lender credit after that.
Additionally, I thought Better had a $5k cap on lender credits (except when “legally required” increases push them past that cap)? It will be interesting to see if they allow this close vs. changing something closer to closing.
101carrots
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 101carrots »

Do you mean changing something creatively? Or taking away the quite big offer?
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

101carrots wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:20 pm Do you mean changing something creatively? Or taking away the quite big offer?
Good point by Brandon.

101carrots, are you seeing these numbers on your official PDF loan estimate from the website? It just doesn't seem to add up... I wouldn't be surprised if you lose the big lender credit as you move forward in the process. If you're seeing this in the PDF, definitely save a copy!
mt2k
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Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 8:13 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mt2k »

Locked in 2.5% with Quicken Loans through an agent, 30 yrs, no closing cost (D+E-Lender Credit=0), no escrow.
Loan amount: $365K, 69% LTV

I have used this agent several times in the past. Always closes within 4 weeks. However, this time he says he cannot close prior to December 23rd which is almost 6 weeks. That is when it will be exactly 6 months of my last refinance. Thinking, should I go to an online lender for a better rate or just stick to this local agent for convenience.. He already has all my info and I basically have to give him only the updated bank statements, pay checks etc.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

mt2k wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:21 pm Locked in 2.5% with Quicken Loans through an agent, 30 yrs, no closing cost (D+E-Lender Credit=0), no escrow.
Loan amount: $365K, 69% LTV

I have used this agent several times in the past. Always closes within 4 weeks. However, this time he says he cannot close prior to December 23rd which is almost 6 weeks. That is when it will be exactly 6 months of my last refinance. Thinking, should I go to an online lender for a better rate or just stick to this local agent for convenience.. He already has all my info and I basically have to give him only the updated bank statements, pay checks etc.
If you have a mortgage broker that consistently gives you good deals and no closing costs, that is worth it’s weight in gold in my opinion and I would wait until 12/23. You may be able to get something sooner/better elsewhere, but then you are back to the grind for the next one having burned your bridge with the broker. Not worth it IMO.

That said, part of me saying this is because you just did a refi with him. Thus, you can’t be at a horrid rate at the moment, so there is little cost to waiting an extra two weeks for a low-hassle refi.
InvestDoc
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Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestDoc »

Is it common for loan payoffs to be padded with an extra few weeks of interest? I'm very close to closing a new loan and my old lender sent a payoff statement with interest calculated through the second week of December, even though my new loan's closing date will be this week and the funding date should be in the last 7 days of November. I'm estimating that I'll be getting a refund of approximately 2 weeks worth of interest from my old loan, but my new lender is requiring me to either choose a loan amount to cover the full payoff amount as calculated through mid-December, or bring cash to closing if I want a lower loan balance (which would then be refunded at some point once they recalculate the payoff amount). It's a bit frustrating to have to pay interest on the interest for the life of the loan vs. come to closing with $3000 in cash just because my old lender chose a payoff date 3 weeks after closing. I understand they pad it in case there's a delay in funding, but I was hoping to have the new loan amount be nearly equal to my existing loan balance. Any thoughts? Should I just look at this as a small cash-out refinance since I'll be getting money back after they calculate an accurate payoff amount? Is it worth paying cash to close to get a lower loan amount and then wait for the refund? Or I can leave it as is with the higher loan amount and then pay it down once I get the interest refunded. Am I overthinking this?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

InvestDoc wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:07 pm Is it common for loan payoffs to be padded with an extra few weeks of interest? I'm very close to closing a new loan and my old lender sent a payoff statement with interest calculated through the second week of December, even though my new loan's closing date will be this week and the funding date should be in the last 7 days of November. I'm estimating that I'll be getting a refund of approximately 2 weeks worth of interest from my old loan, but my new lender is requiring me to either choose a loan amount to cover the full payoff amount as calculated through mid-December, or bring cash to closing if I want a lower loan balance (which would then be refunded at some point once they recalculate the payoff amount). It's a bit frustrating to have to pay interest on the interest for the life of the loan vs. come to closing with $3000 in cash just because my old lender chose a payoff date 3 weeks after closing. I understand they pad it in case there's a delay in funding, but I was hoping to have the new loan amount be nearly equal to my existing loan balance. Any thoughts? Should I just look at this as a small cash-out refinance since I'll be getting money back after they calculate an accurate payoff amount? Is it worth paying cash to close to get a lower loan amount and then wait for the refund? Or I can leave it as is with the higher loan amount and then pay it down once I get the interest refunded. Am I overthinking this?
You are overthinking this. While many lenders will generate a short payoff quote, many will do up to 30 days out. Either way, they usually list a per diem to adjust the calculation. If the new lender refuses to change the calculation, I’d simply proceed and then, if you choose, make an extra principal payment once you get the excess refunded. Sure, you pay a month of interest on the difference, but it’s much less stressful that way and that’s got to be worth something eh?
InvestDoc
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestDoc »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:18 pm
InvestDoc wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:07 pm Is it common for loan payoffs to be padded with an extra few weeks of interest? I'm very close to closing a new loan and my old lender sent a payoff statement with interest calculated through the second week of December, even though my new loan's closing date will be this week and the funding date should be in the last 7 days of November. I'm estimating that I'll be getting a refund of approximately 2 weeks worth of interest from my old loan, but my new lender is requiring me to either choose a loan amount to cover the full payoff amount as calculated through mid-December, or bring cash to closing if I want a lower loan balance (which would then be refunded at some point once they recalculate the payoff amount). It's a bit frustrating to have to pay interest on the interest for the life of the loan vs. come to closing with $3000 in cash just because my old lender chose a payoff date 3 weeks after closing. I understand they pad it in case there's a delay in funding, but I was hoping to have the new loan amount be nearly equal to my existing loan balance. Any thoughts? Should I just look at this as a small cash-out refinance since I'll be getting money back after they calculate an accurate payoff amount? Is it worth paying cash to close to get a lower loan amount and then wait for the refund? Or I can leave it as is with the higher loan amount and then pay it down once I get the interest refunded. Am I overthinking this?
You are overthinking this. While many lenders will generate a short payoff quote, many will do up to 30 days out. Either way, they usually list a per diem to adjust the calculation. If the new lender refuses to change the calculation, I’d simply proceed and then, if you choose, make an extra principal payment once you get the excess refunded. Sure, you pay a month of interest on the difference, but it’s much less stressful that way and that’s got to be worth something eh?
Thank you! This is my second refinance and didn't experience this during my last refinance because the new loan funded just before the date of the payoff quote. I'm still saving a ton of money on this new loan even if I have to don't pay the principal balance down.
ConcreteMan
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Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:00 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ConcreteMan »

This thread has motivated me to look into my own home refinancing and I was hoping someone can help answer a few questions. The purpose of the refinance is to get a lower rate.

I live in Missouri, 4.125% 30 yr fixed rate. House is valued at approximately $309k with $233k mortgage balance remaining. Credit Score > 800, LTV = 75%, and Debt / Income 14%.

I don't have access to Loan Cabin or LenderFi, only Better and Loan Depot. I think this is due to being in Missouri.

I was going to stay away from Points, 0 Points.

Better:
Rate/APR 3%/3.025% - -$467 credits
Rate/APR 3.125%/3.151% - -$1192 credits
Rate/APR 3.5%/3.527% - -$1759 credits

Loan Depot
Conforming 30 Year Fixed - 3.875% / 4.034% APR


Questions:
1. How are people on this thread getting much lower rates? Is this due to my LTV =75% or that I'm in Missouri?
2. I have seen a lot of comments on fees. What fees are negotiable? Origination Fee, Appraisal Fee, Credit Report, Flood Certification, Title fees, Record Fees.
3. What should I expect to be paying in fees?
4. What is the difference in the all of the Better quotes. Do any of the above look more attractive?
Miamilaw35
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:35 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Miamilaw35 »

ConcreteMan wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:41 pm This thread has motivated me to look into my own home refinancing and I was hoping someone can help answer a few questions. The purpose of the refinance is to get a lower rate.

I live in Missouri, 4.125% 30 yr fixed rate. House is valued at approximately $309k with $233k mortgage balance remaining. Credit Score > 800, LTV = 75%, and Debt / Income 14%.

I don't have access to Loan Cabin or LenderFi, only Better and Loan Depot. I think this is due to being in Missouri.

I was going to stay away from Points, 0 Points.

Better:
Rate/APR 3%/3.025% - -$467 credits
Rate/APR 3.125%/3.151% - -$1192 credits
Rate/APR 3.5%/3.527% - -$1759 credits

Loan Depot
Conforming 30 Year Fixed - 3.875% / 4.034% APR


Questions:
1. How are people on this thread getting much lower rates? Is this due to my LTV =75% or that I'm in Missouri?
2. I have seen a lot of comments on fees. What fees are negotiable? Origination Fee, Appraisal Fee, Credit Report, Flood Certification, Title fees, Record Fees.
3. What should I expect to be paying in fees?
4. What is the difference in the all of the Better quotes. Do any of the above look more attractive?
loan value is too small. You'll get a better rate with anything over $300k generally
lepa71
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:12 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by lepa71 »

ConcreteMan wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:41 pm This thread has motivated me to look into my own home refinancing and I was hoping someone can help answer a few questions. The purpose of the refinance is to get a lower rate.

I live in Missouri, 4.125% 30 yr fixed rate. House is valued at approximately $309k with $233k mortgage balance remaining. Credit Score > 800, LTV = 75%, and Debt / Income 14%.

I don't have access to Loan Cabin or LenderFi, only Better and Loan Depot. I think this is due to being in Missouri.

I was going to stay away from Points, 0 Points.

Better:
Rate/APR 3%/3.025% - -$467 credits
Rate/APR 3.125%/3.151% - -$1192 credits
Rate/APR 3.5%/3.527% - -$1759 credits

Loan Depot
Conforming 30 Year Fixed - 3.875% / 4.034% APR


Questions:
1. How are people on this thread getting much lower rates? Is this due to my LTV =75% or that I'm in Missouri?
2. I have seen a lot of comments on fees. What fees are negotiable? Origination Fee, Appraisal Fee, Credit Report, Flood Certification, Title fees, Record Fees.
3. What should I expect to be paying in fees?
4. What is the difference in the all of the Better quotes. Do any of the above look more attractive?
Try AIMloans. They have a lower loan principal amount value loans. I'm doing $235K with them. They are a little bit slow but it is ok for me.
mt2k
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Post by mt2k »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:58 pm
mt2k wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:21 pm Locked in 2.5% with Quicken Loans through an agent, 30 yrs, no closing cost (D+E-Lender Credit=0), no escrow.
Loan amount: $365K, 69% LTV

I have used this agent several times in the past. Always closes within 4 weeks. However, this time he says he cannot close prior to December 23rd which is almost 6 weeks. That is when it will be exactly 6 months of my last refinance. Thinking, should I go to an online lender for a better rate or just stick to this local agent for convenience.. He already has all my info and I basically have to give him only the updated bank statements, pay checks etc.
If you have a mortgage broker that consistently gives you good deals and no closing costs, that is worth it’s weight in gold in my opinion and I would wait until 12/23. You may be able to get something sooner/better elsewhere, but then you are back to the grind for the next one having burned your bridge with the broker. Not worth it IMO.

That said, part of me saying this is because you just did a refi with him. Thus, you can’t be at a horrid rate at the moment, so there is little cost to waiting an extra two weeks for a low-hassle refi.
Thanks Brandon. I agree with you. Also, there is no guarantee others will actually close sooner. Btw, my current rate is 2.99%, closed in June
houseofcheap
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Post by houseofcheap »

Hi everyone,

Looking to refi myself and have read many posts. Some info on my current loan: Currently 3.875% with 760+ credit score and balance of $200,000.

1) Local regional bank offered 3% with $2k closing costs but I know I can do better
2) Better.com is only offering 3.125% with $6k closing costs and no points which is terrible. Very surprised considering everyone else is getting much better.
3) Applied at LenderFi. Looks like 2.875 but no info on fees yet
4) Applied at Loan Depot and waiting to hear back. No rates are shown yet

I really want to get the great deals everyone seems to be getting. Any advice? Thanks!
vinhodoporto
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Post by vinhodoporto »

Just closed on a VA IRRRL @ 2.25% / 30 year with lender credit that covered all but about $280 of D+E.

$450k / less than 60% LTV / Virginia

Went through a broker - Trident Home Loans

Seven weeks from initial application to close so a little slower than the two times I’ve done this before but not unreasonable.
y45hd0
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Post by y45hd0 »

I am unable to find a good rate for CA Jumbo loan re-finance. Any pointers or anyone on this group can share what worked for them?
I looked at few threads though most options suggested LD, loan cabin, owning, etc are not that great with rates it seems
3of10
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Post by 3of10 »

sunny_socal wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:46 am My LoanDepot app finally went to underwriting. It's been two months, expect it take a couple more weeks. Got 30yr 2.5% on 460k loan.

These days doing a refi is very frustrating. In "the good old days" you could expect 3 weeks from start to finish, no big deal. I did a refi at least once a year.

My experience:
- LoanDepot: Head and shoulders above the rest
- Better: Nice website, but customer service was meh (no replies to my emails.) But many seem to like them. I probably could have pushed more.
- Amerisave: Not bad, and I have another application processing with them. Will drop them once the LD process is completed.
- Loan Cabin: Terrible. It's like talking to a black hole.
- Quicken: Bad rates
- Local Lender: Can't match the internet rates, was quoted 3% (pretty incredible that 3% should be considered a 'bad' rate :? )
Lenders are pretty inconsistent when it comes to processing a refi. From what others have noted, and from what I've experienced, it all boils down to the LO (or Loan Consultant). The LO I dealt with for LD was terrible, but the LO from other lenders were better.

The local lenders I've dealt with offered good rates, but did all they could to prevent giving out the LE. Others, might have fared better with their local lenders.
"You don't stop playing because you're old. You're old because you've stopped playing"
just_me
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Post by just_me »

Question regarding recast. We are about one week out from closing our refi and we owe about $143k on our current mortgage and HELOC. The loan amount is for $150k with 10 years left on the current mortgages but we're refinancing to a 15-year for a lower rate and paying extra to get it down to 7 years.

Would we take that 7k difference and just apply that to the principal? The very last thing we want is to owe more and for a longer time than we do now.
Goal33
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Post by Goal33 »

just_me wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:52 pm Question regarding recast. We are about one week out from closing our refi and we owe about $143k on our current mortgage and HELOC. The loan amount is for $150k with 10 years left on the current mortgages but we're refinancing to a 15-year for a lower rate and paying extra to get it down to 7 years.

Would we take that 7k difference and just apply that to the principal? The very last thing we want is to owe more and for a longer time than we do now.
If you're paying it off ASAP, why do you care about recast. Just pay the extra 7k towards principal, but no, it won't change your minimum monthly payment, like a recast would. It would result in paying off the loan sooner, though.
ConcreteMan
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Post by ConcreteMan »

houseofcheap wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:16 pm Hi everyone,

Looking to refi myself and have read many posts. Some info on my current loan: Currently 3.875% with 760+ credit score and balance of $200,000.

1) Local regional bank offered 3% with $2k closing costs but I know I can do better
2) Better.com is only offering 3.125% with $6k closing costs and no points which is terrible. Very surprised considering everyone else is getting much better.
3) Applied at LenderFi. Looks like 2.875 but no info on fees yet
4) Applied at Loan Depot and waiting to hear back. No rates are shown yet

I really want to get the great deals everyone seems to be getting. Any advice? Thanks!
I'm really impressed with your rates. I have a similar loan balance and credit score as you do and a few offers are coming in around 3.5%, with 0 points. A asked a similar question on this thread and the feedback I received is that I'm receiving a higher rate due to the fact that my mortgage loan <$300k. Perhaps the same logic applies to you.
ChiKid24
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Post by ChiKid24 »

y45hd0 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:58 am I am unable to find a good rate for CA Jumbo loan re-finance. Any pointers or anyone on this group can share what worked for them?
I looked at few threads though most options suggested LD, loan cabin, owning, etc are not that great with rates it seems
You mention Owning in your list of options. Their website is showing 2.875% on 30-year jumbo with no closing costs. I haven't done a lot of jumbo searching as I'm now below that limit, but that sounds pretty nice to me. Probably worth an application in case the actual rate is even better than what they advertise online.
houseofcheap
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Post by houseofcheap »

ConcreteMan wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:13 pm
houseofcheap wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:16 pm Hi everyone,

Looking to refi myself and have read many posts. Some info on my current loan: Currently 3.875% with 760+ credit score and balance of $200,000.

1) Local regional bank offered 3% with $2k closing costs but I know I can do better
2) Better.com is only offering 3.125% with $6k closing costs and no points which is terrible. Very surprised considering everyone else is getting much better.
3) Applied at LenderFi. Looks like 2.875 but no info on fees yet
4) Applied at Loan Depot and waiting to hear back. No rates are shown yet

I really want to get the great deals everyone seems to be getting. Any advice? Thanks!
I'm really impressed with your rates. I have a similar loan balance and credit score as you do and a few offers are coming in around 3.5%, with 0 points. A asked a similar question on this thread and the feedback I received is that I'm receiving a higher rate due to the fact that my mortgage loan <$300k. Perhaps the same logic applies to you.
Good news! I've been jumping back and forth pretty much all day. Took the advice of many here and took my best quote to LD and they beat it by $100 or so. It was:

2.875% no buy-down 30 yr fixed with no-cost to close. Appraisal waived, and they went with my appraisal estimate which got rid of PMI. The only thing I'm paying is Escrow and prepaids. I'll take it! Got a 60 day lock with LD. They estimate 35-40 days to close so we will see. FYI, the best estimate came from LenderFi. Probably a good enough company, but working with LD has been smooth so far.
presto987
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Post by presto987 »

houseofcheap wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:09 pm Good news! I've been jumping back and forth pretty much all day. Took the advice of many here and took my best quote to LD and they beat it by $100 or so. It was:

2.875% no buy-down 30 yr fixed with no-cost to close. Appraisal waived, and they went with my appraisal estimate which got rid of PMI. The only thing I'm paying is Escrow and prepaids. I'll take it! Got a 60 day lock with LD. They estimate 35-40 days to close so we will see. FYI, the best estimate came from LenderFi. Probably a good enough company, but working with LD has been smooth so far.
Nice work! You followed the two-step formula for the simplest way to get a good deal on a conventional mortgage:

1) Get a quote from a lender who gives great rates upfront:
- Loan Cabin is usually the best if they operate in your state
- Interactive Mortgage in CA and a few other states
- LenderFi operates in most states

2) Get a price match from a lender who is good about beating other offers
- LoanDepot seems to be most consistent about beating all other offers these days, as long as you talk to the right type of LO. Sometimes they will beat other offers by well over $100 (e.g. closer to $1000).
- Better.com is usually willing to beat other offers by $100. But if your appraisal gets waived and you get the title costs down by using a cheaper provider, then this $100 can turn into $850 or sometimes more.

This is the way to avoid spending a lot of time shopping around.

Unfortunately, this doesn't work in NY or other states where most of the usual lenders discussed here aren't licensed.
houseofcheap
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Post by houseofcheap »

presto987 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:27 pm
houseofcheap wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:09 pm Good news! I've been jumping back and forth pretty much all day. Took the advice of many here and took my best quote to LD and they beat it by $100 or so. It was:

2.875% no buy-down 30 yr fixed with no-cost to close. Appraisal waived, and they went with my appraisal estimate which got rid of PMI. The only thing I'm paying is Escrow and prepaids. I'll take it! Got a 60 day lock with LD. They estimate 35-40 days to close so we will see. FYI, the best estimate came from LenderFi. Probably a good enough company, but working with LD has been smooth so far.
Nice work! You followed the two-step formula for the simplest way to get a good deal on a conventional mortgage:

1) Get a quote from a lender who gives great rates upfront:
- Loan Cabin is usually the best if they operate in your state
- Interactive Mortgage in CA and a few other states
- LenderFi operates in most states

2) Get a price match from a lender who is good about beating other offers
- LoanDepot seems to be most consistent about beating all other offers these days, as long as you talk to the right type of LO. Sometimes they will beat other offers by well over $100 (e.g. closer to $1000).
- Better.com is usually willing to beat other offers by $100. But if your appraisal gets waived and you get the title costs down by using a cheaper provider, then this $100 can turn into $850 or sometimes more.

This is the way to avoid spending a lot of time shopping around.

Unfortunately, this doesn't work in NY or other states where most of the usual lenders discussed here aren't licensed.
Wow, I didn't even know about Loan Cabin. They do actually have better rates. I just put in an app with them and will see if Better or LD can beat them tomorrow. Any worries about the services between LD and Better, or are they both pretty decent?
hotspur13
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Post by hotspur13 »

Just locked in no cost refi at 2.625% for 30 years with Lenderfi for $535K on house that is worth $720K.

This is my second refi with them. For those looking at their rates online, they were about 0.25% above what I initially got when they called me (their calculator gave me a 3.0% and they offered 2.75% initially on the phone. They then reduced it another 0.125% since I was a previous customer that held the loan for more than 6 months (refinanced in March) and they could wave a few fees.

Just wanted to mention the reduction of 0.125% as a previous customer since I think a few people weren't sure how the 6 month deal worked (they mentioned they would waive certain fees if rates drop more than 0.25% and you make at least 6 month of on time payments).
presto987
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Post by presto987 »

houseofcheap wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:49 pm Wow, I didn't even know about Loan Cabin. They do actually have better rates. I just put in an app with them and will see if Better or LD can beat them tomorrow. Any worries about the services between LD and Better, or are they both pretty decent?
One odd thing about Loan Cabin is that they let you get quotes from their site and submit an application even if they're not licensed in your state. That has tripped some people up. So double-check here: https://www.loancabin.com/disclosure-an ... sing-copy/

The other issue with Loan Cabin is that they are slow, so there is no guarantee that they'll respond to your application within a day or two. In July and August, people had to wait 3-4 weeks or more to get an initial rate quote in response to an application! But it seems that now they are caught up, so hopefully you'll get a prompt response.

As far as Better versus LD, I have refi'd previously with Better and am about to close with LD, so I can offer some thoughts.

Caveat: With any lender, your experience depends in large part on the specific LO and loan processor you get. So there is luck involved. For any given lender, some people are going to have great experiences and others will have bad experiences.

Reasons in favor of Better
- Better has a fantastic online platform that keeps you fully apprised on what is going on. You will have a task list of things to do, and it is satisfying to complete the items as you go through the process. Their communication is great. In contrast, with LD, I had several weeks of radio silence after I uploaded my docs before I heard anything. They have an online portal, but there's not much going on there.
- Better is often willing to price match even after you lock. So if you lock now and interest rates fall in a couple of weeks, you could go try to get another competing loan estimate and have Better beat it. I don't believe LD is flexible on that.
- Better does a 45 day lock, but seems like most people are able to close in 30 days or less. LD does a 60 day lock, and it seems like people are closing in 40-60 days.

Reasons in favor of LD
- I found LD's process to be much less taxing on my time. They only asked for a few documents (paystubs, W2, mortgage statement), and that was it. No other questions for me to answer or additional documentation. Meanwhile, Better was constantly asking for more documents, updated documents, random questions, etc. While it was fun to check things off the tasklist, some of the questions were just inane. None of this took a ton of time, but I appreciated LD's more streamlined approach to this aspect of the process.
- If you are looking to choose a rate that offers a lot of lender credit, Better caps you out at $5k lender credit, whereas LD allows you to go much higher.

Overall, I would prefer Better but would be happy to work with LD. On my current refi, I chose to work with LD because of Better's lender credit cap.
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SavageHunter
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Post by SavageHunter »

Data point..
old note: 4.5% 30 yrs with 21 yrs left

refi with Better (started with LF then 10 others but only Better and LD where willing to match and counter)
2.25% / 15yrs no escrow
no cost and actually had a $300 more credit being refunded to me at some point
ltv 36% loan amount 280k

A+B+C = 1500
E+F+G+H = 680 (paid for my taxes and home insurance in advance)
Lenders Credit = 2600 :moneybag

took a bit of work to get it to work :

9.25 Rate locked, appraisal ordered, title ordered
9.26 As for title company change/match
9.27 Appraisal done
9.30 Appraisal cleared 100k less than my neighbor value
10.12 Better received Title from Radian
11.06 Title clears / took forever
11.07 Underwriter clears, I get closing expert
11.08 initial CD for review
11.09 Sent QL the initial CD for the match/beat promo
11.11 papers sign with the notary
11.17 Loan funded :sharebeer

53 Long Days
8-)
Lets all retire early.. | Save and make that the $$ so we can spend it later
manatee2005
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Post by manatee2005 »

Will this thread stop on Dec 1?
goblue102
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Post by goblue102 »

Will this thread stop on Dec 1?
I think people will continue to refinance homes in December...

Do you ask because of the new fee? That will be part of this (ongoing) conversation.
presto987
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Post by presto987 »

manatee2005 wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:05 am Will this thread stop on Dec 1?
If you’re asking because of the 0.5% fee, that has already been priced into new refi loans for a while now. Lenders started pricing it in in Sept or Oct, because the fee is charged to lenders on funded loans transferred to Fannie/Freddie on or after Dec 1.
saver007
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Post by saver007 »

Anyone here was able to obtain interest only mortgage for conventional loans (not jumbo)? If so can you please advise which broker/bank would do this?
houseofcheap
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Post by houseofcheap »

Question, if you back out of a loan before it goes through underwriting, are you on the hook for paying for those costs?

Pretty sure I'm going to go with Better instead of LD, but there is no where to 'cancel' with LD. Do I just email the guy and say I'm not going to move forward and leave it at that?
Last edited by houseofcheap on Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Goal33
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Post by Goal33 »

houseofcheap wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:06 pm Question, if you back out of a loan before it goes through underwriting, are you on the hook for paying for those costs?
No, only appraisal if you already paid.
houseofcheap
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Post by houseofcheap »

Goal33 wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:09 pm
houseofcheap wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:06 pm Question, if you back out of a loan before it goes through underwriting, are you on the hook for paying for those costs?
No, only appraisal if you already paid.
Thanks, so I'll just email the LO and tell him I'm not moving forward and to stop underwriting. That's it I guess.
ossipago
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Post by ossipago »

I swear I didn't sign a clawback provision with LenderFi if I refinanced again within 6 months. Where in my packet of docs would that have shown up?

If I did sign that provision, does it matter if the loan was sold within two weeks of my closing?
majortom
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Post by majortom »

Hoping for some quick advice, have a 30 yr fixed refi set to close this week at 2.625 with 1200 in lender credit, but seeing that the current rates are 2.375. Do you think it's worth backing out of this refi before closing for the lower rate?
nerdymarketer
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Post by nerdymarketer »

Getting a 15 year standard conforming with excellent credit.

Sebonic and Better are both quoting me approx:
rate of 2.0%
Loan Estimate section A + B (the real lender price) minus lender credits = -$3700'ish
Escrow was originally included, but I got them to drop it--they said normally that costs more, but once I got one to do it the others followed suit.

Thank you so much for everyone upthread who posted their experiences/advice, I learned a lot.

Also, for Better--they originally offered 2.125% with those credits, then rates dropped this morning and the 2.125% disappeared and was replaced with 2.25%, but all the other numbers on the rate sheet got better... I was very confused so I called them.

Turns out they have a max lender credit cap of $5K, and when rates dropped the 2.125% calculated out at at $5,300 credits, so their software simply replaced it with 2.25% rate... they immediately fixed it while I was on the phone.

From there I sent that to Sebonic who offered the same lender credit but with 2.0% rate, and then Better matched.

It def pays to shop around... and then to ask them if they want to compete with each other. I was upfront with all lenders about my process, and that I was guaranteed to close by certain date and wouldn't endlessly rate shop and waste their time. A few opted out but most said "Send me what you get and I'll see if I can compete." They all clearly appreciated that I was upfront and didn't waste their time by endless shopping or asking tons of questions (because I'd already done my homework thanks to the information here on Bogleheads!).
mt2k
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mt2k »

majortom wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:22 pm Hoping for some quick advice, have a 30 yr fixed refi set to close this week at 2.625 with 1200 in lender credit, but seeing that the current rates are 2.375. Do you think it's worth backing out of this refi before closing for the lower rate?
If it is true no-cost refinance I would suggest to continue with closing and then immediately after closing apply for the next no-cost refinance
houseofcheap
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Post by houseofcheap »

nerdymarketer wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:09 pm Getting a 15 year standard conforming with excellent credit.

Sebonic and Better are both quoting me approx:
rate of 2.0%
Loan Estimate section A + B (the real lender price) minus lender credits = -$3700'ish
Escrow was originally included, but I got them to drop it--they said normally that costs more, but once I got one to do it the others followed suit.

Thank you so much for everyone upthread who posted their experiences/advice, I learned a lot.

Also, for Better--they originally offered 2.125% with those credits, then rates dropped this morning and the 2.125% disappeared and was replaced with 2.25%, but all the other numbers on the rate sheet got better... I was very confused so I called them.

Turns out they have a max lender credit cap of $5K, and when rates dropped the 2.125% calculated out at at $5,300 credits, so their software simply replaced it with 2.25% rate... they immediately fixed it while I was on the phone.

From there I sent that to Sebonic who offered the same lender credit but with 2.0% rate, and then Better matched.

It def pays to shop around... and then to ask them if they want to compete with each other. I was upfront with all lenders about my process, and that I was guaranteed to close by certain date and wouldn't endlessly rate shop and waste their time. A few opted out but most said "Send me what you get and I'll see if I can compete." They all clearly appreciated that I was upfront and didn't waste their time by endless shopping or asking tons of questions (because I'd already done my homework thanks to the information here on Bogleheads!).
Did you have to pay the appraisal deposit with Better to get the rate lock? They said the appraisal looks like it will be waived but I’m still required to put the deposit down. I assume it will be refunded if Fannie confirms the waiver.
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