Refinance Mega Thread

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Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

kroe10 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:21 pm
jm1495 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:35 am I just closed a loan with Watermark that was started August 6th. I strongly do not recommend using them unless the rate is such that it would be hard to say no to.

The loan officer threatened to ghost me because I'd heard about them from Bogleheads. He called and told me that from his personal phone rather than the company issued one. They were terrible at communication, had several errors on the documents, scheduled closing on Friday at 5:15pm but didn't have the documents to the title company until 9pm that night. After jumping through hoops and not thinking I'd be able to sign all of the documents they had notary at my house at 10:30pm Friday. Talk about cutting it close!

All in all the Lenderfi refinance that I completed early this year was much better. I just couldn't say no to the 2.625 30y fixed no cost offer from Watermark.
Long time lurker, first time poster here. I had a similar experience with Watermark. I made my mortgage payment roughly a week prior to closing and let the LO know so that they would adjust the LE. I asked for an updated LE which they did not provide, and they assured me that it would be adjusted prior to closing. On the day of closing, I was in touch with the notary as he still had not received the docs. Notary finally received docs an hour prior to closing and arrived at my home at schedule time. Upon inspection, the closing statement was incorrect in that they did not take into account reduced principle from mortgage payment.

Everything was sent back to either underwriting or title for correction. Roughly a week later, notary was rescheduled. Again, I asked for closing statement, and they were not able to provide until 2 hours prior to scheduled notary. Docs were still incorrect. At this point, I pulled the plug on them out of sheer frustration. To add, I had to be the one on top of everything to make sure that the process was moving smoothly. Also, huge miscommunication between title and notary. I literally had to be the one to request the notary's number and call them myself to schedule a time for closing.

On the day I pulled the plug, I contacted Better and provided the 45 day old loan estimate. They beat WM's offer by $1200, and I'm currently in the process of closing with them. Better's website is much more transparent and I just feel that their ppl are on it. WM is likely just too busy and details are slipping through the cracks.
Did you pull the plug on them before or after you knew you could get a better deal? I had serious frustrations with LenderFi but I was locked into a rate I couldn't get anywhere else. You were "lucky" that the market conditions improved enough to beat their offer.
postal007
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Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:29 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by postal007 »

postal007 wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:03 am
mega317 wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:43 pm Update from me on my experience with Owning.
8/30 apply online, phone call within an hour.
9/1 lock
9/9 a few phone calls asking for documentation, underwriters don't like something.
9/10 sign closing docs. I know at this time that I'm not through underwriting. Don't send any cash.
9/14 and 15 underwriters still aren't happy, and apparently the processor stinks, on the phone with LO for a while trying to sort it out.
9/16 told verbally that we're good to go, given another estimated closing statement and asked to wire funds.
9/22 today the loan funded and sent final closing statement.

Someone owes me over $1000 in extra interest paid on both ends (prepaids were from 9/14 and the estimated payoff amount went into October) and I'm not thrilled about how they close before underwriting, but hey I just dropped my rate by 0.5% no-cost in 3 weeks.
I’m on a similar timeline to you (applied 8/31, locked 9/2 on match to IM) and haven’t funded yet. I wonder if some of this is because owning still hasn’t found buyers for their loans? I talked to the processor yesterday - he’s been super responsive and my file has been complete since Friday and he said the company was waiting on “market conditions” and the loan should fund by Thursday. So not sure what they means, maybe they’re waiting for a better buyer to come along?
Update here - loan was finally funded today and closing statement sent to me. So my timeline looks like:
8/31 - Applied
9/2 - Lock (match with IM)
9/14 - Signing
9/28 - Funding

Overall, still pretty happy with a ~28 day close, just wish they would be more prompt with giving updates between signing/closing/funding. Again, my loan officer has been very responsive throughout but there was a delay in waiting for funding which finally happened, and he sent me the Escrow Closing Statement promptly showing all the right interest calculations. So overall I'd still recommend, with the understanding that they really backend their full underwriting and funding.
lillycat
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:26 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by lillycat »

Ola dear Friends, and HELP!

I just tried to apply for a LF Refi, 400k loan value, home is worth 600k+.

Here is the message I got from the website.

Due to COVID-19 and its economic effects, we are not offering loans above $331,760.00 at this time. Please revise your loan amount to continue, or call your loan officer for additional details.

Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot! Did I do something wrong? This can't be right!
fyre4ce
Posts: 1149
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:29 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by fyre4ce »

It's a purchase, not a refinance, but I just locked a 2.375% with 0.5 points on a 30 year fixed with Wells Fargo, on a $1.5M jumbo loan in California. That includes 0.375% relationship discount for $750k+ in relationship assets. Could have gone another 0.125% lower with another $250k in qualifying assets but I don't have anything that would qualify, and they don't consider gifts.

I'm getting a substantial rebate from my agent, and I'll need to soak up about 1 point with fees at closing, so based on a verbal discussion with my loan officer I'll likely end up at 2.25% with 1 point.

Anyone know of any better deals? I could unwind this but I'd have to move fast.
kroe10
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Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:07 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kroe10 »

Goal33 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:16 pm
kroe10 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:21 pm
jm1495 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:35 am I just closed a loan with Watermark that was started August 6th. I strongly do not recommend using them unless the rate is such that it would be hard to say no to.

The loan officer threatened to ghost me because I'd heard about them from Bogleheads. He called and told me that from his personal phone rather than the company issued one. They were terrible at communication, had several errors on the documents, scheduled closing on Friday at 5:15pm but didn't have the documents to the title company until 9pm that night. After jumping through hoops and not thinking I'd be able to sign all of the documents they had notary at my house at 10:30pm Friday. Talk about cutting it close!

All in all the Lenderfi refinance that I completed early this year was much better. I just couldn't say no to the 2.625 30y fixed no cost offer from Watermark.
Long time lurker, first time poster here. I had a similar experience with Watermark. I made my mortgage payment roughly a week prior to closing and let the LO know so that they would adjust the LE. I asked for an updated LE which they did not provide, and they assured me that it would be adjusted prior to closing. On the day of closing, I was in touch with the notary as he still had not received the docs. Notary finally received docs an hour prior to closing and arrived at my home at schedule time. Upon inspection, the closing statement was incorrect in that they did not take into account reduced principle from mortgage payment.

Everything was sent back to either underwriting or title for correction. Roughly a week later, notary was rescheduled. Again, I asked for closing statement, and they were not able to provide until 2 hours prior to scheduled notary. Docs were still incorrect. At this point, I pulled the plug on them out of sheer frustration. To add, I had to be the one on top of everything to make sure that the process was moving smoothly. Also, huge miscommunication between title and notary. I literally had to be the one to request the notary's number and call them myself to schedule a time for closing.

On the day I pulled the plug, I contacted Better and provided the 45 day old loan estimate. They beat WM's offer by $1200, and I'm currently in the process of closing with them. Better's website is much more transparent and I just feel that their ppl are on it. WM is likely just too busy and details are slipping through the cracks.
Did you pull the plug on them before or after you knew you could get a better deal? I had serious frustrations with LenderFi but I was locked into a rate I couldn't get anywhere else. You were "lucky" that the market conditions improved enough to beat their offer.
Admittedly, I was extremely lucky as I did pull the plug on them prior to knowing I could get a better deal. Tracking this message board really helped. Although, I know there was no guarantee I was going to get terms similar to what other were getting here.
3of10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

I've recently completed my closing and will chime in on what I did for calculating the closing costs. When I closed this month (September), the next mortgage payment is for November. The October payment (set to pay for the month of Sept), ended up as part of the closing (section F "prepaids" & payoff amount).

So, I subtracted the interest portion of the Oct payment (that will not be done) from the closing cost to get the actual costs. Because I didn't want the Oct "principle" portion to be rolled into the new loan balance by default, I reduced the new loan balance by the Oct "principal" amt.

This was all calculated and planned before I received the ICD. I mention this in case there are some who are on the fence in doing the refi (due to costs), and might be over-estimating the costs for the refi, or do not want any additional costs rolled into the new loan balance amount.
"You don't stop playing because you're old. You're old because you've stopped playing"
BHLearner2020
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BHLearner2020 »

jm1495 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:35 am I just closed a loan with Watermark that was started August 6th. I strongly do not recommend using them unless the rate is such that it would be hard to say no to.

The loan officer threatened to ghost me because I'd heard about them from Bogleheads. He called and told me that from his personal phone rather than the company issued one. They were terrible at communication, had several errors on the documents, scheduled closing on Friday at 5:15pm but didn't have the documents to the title company until 9pm that night. After jumping through hoops and not thinking I'd be able to sign all of the documents they had notary at my house at 10:30pm Friday. Talk about cutting it close!

All in all the Lenderfi refinance that I completed early this year was much better. I just couldn't say no to the 2.625 30y fixed no cost offer from Watermark.
I am going to 2nd this opinion. I had run into multiple issues with them during the closing. I suggest your read the documents from them properly because they tend to make mistakes on them. I had family member start and finish with Lenderfi in less than 30 days. I have stopped recommending WM to others unless the rates is great.
yogesh
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by yogesh »

Update:
Both LenderFi and Better offered 30yr/Fixed/2.625/$0 (A+B+C+E-J) or 30yr/Fixed/2.5/$2000 (A+B+C+E-J) today so moving forward with lock.
Should I move forward with LenderFi or Better or it doesn't matter? Both seemed straightforward with good apps/website to me.
Emergency: FDIC | Taxable: VTMFX | Retirement: TR2040
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

yogesh wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:03 pm Update:
Both LenderFi and Better offered 30yr/Fixed/2.625/$0 (A+B+C+E-J) or 30yr/Fixed/2.5/$2000 (A+B+C+E-J) today so moving forward with lock.
Should I move forward with LenderFi or Better or it doesn't matter? Both seemed straightforward with good apps/website to me.
All else equal, I would go with Better. They offer a process that is generally pretty smooth with good communication via their website. Also they are customer friendly.

You might also be able to improve your deal with Better. Generally they are willing to beat others by $100. Plus, if you qualify for an appraisal waiver, typically their LE will include an appraisal at the time of price match, but they will remove it later. So if you are in that situation, you can reduce your costs by an additional $550. Finally, you can typically reduce your title costs by $200 with Better by asking them to price match Radian.
mrmicro
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mrmicro »

Just closed my refi with Better today
Locked: 9/1
Loan funded: 9/28
Better Credits: No cost + ~3K credits
Rate: 2.5% 30 yr fixed in CA

Does anyone know what would be the wait period to refi again? Interactive Mortgage is offering 2.375. Is there a 6 month wait period with Better or do they take back credits if I refi even before the first payment?
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sunny_socal
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sunny_socal »

Finally found one of the mythical 2.5% loans!
- First found a decent deal w/ Amerisave ($500 application fee, credited to you at closing if you don't bail....)
- Went back to Loan Depot with that deal and have them beat it

Now I'm at:
- 460k loan, 30yr
- 2.5%
- $2400 lender credit
- Still 3k of my own costs (rolled into the above loan)

Not as great as some people are getting, but much better than a couple weeks ago. Lesson: You really have to push these people, don't accept the first answer you get. It helps to shop around, I think I've applied at 6 places.

Loan Cabin also finally got back to me. Still planning on sticking with LD unless something better comes along. LD is quoting 2w for loan approval, then another 30-40 days for closing, so hopefully all done before December.
powerhouse
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by powerhouse »

kroe10 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:21 pm Long time lurker, first time poster here. I had a similar experience with Watermark. I made my mortgage payment roughly a week prior to closing and let the LO know so that they would adjust the LE. I asked for an updated LE which they did not provide, and they assured me that it would be adjusted prior to closing. On the day of closing, I was in touch with the notary as he still had not received the docs. Notary finally received docs an hour prior to closing and arrived at my home at schedule time. Upon inspection, the closing statement was incorrect in that they did not take into account reduced principle from mortgage payment.

Everything was sent back to either underwriting or title for correction. Roughly a week later, notary was rescheduled. Again, I asked for closing statement, and they were not able to provide until 2 hours prior to scheduled notary. Docs were still incorrect. At this point, I pulled the plug on them out of sheer frustration. To add, I had to be the one on top of everything to make sure that the process was moving smoothly. Also, huge miscommunication between title and notary. I literally had to be the one to request the notary's number and call them myself to schedule a time for closing.

On the day I pulled the plug, I contacted Better and provided the 45 day old loan estimate. They beat WM's offer by $1200, and I'm currently in the process of closing with them. Better's website is much more transparent and I just feel that their ppl are on it. WM is likely just too busy and details are slipping through the cracks.
Even if they didn't account for the latest mortgage payment, wouldn't you have received those funds back from the old lender, once the higher payoff was received?
zrzhu111
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Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:03 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by zrzhu111 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:37 pm
zrzhu111 wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:01 pm If we do CEMA, does it mean I don't need to pay transfer tax? I spoke to one Better.com rep, i was told CEMA doesn't mean all transfer tax will be gone, only a portion.
My understanding (I am NOT a resident of NY) is that a CEMA would only cover transfer taxes up to your (original or current, unknown which) balance on the existing mortgage. That said, even if it covered the entirety of it, the old lender will not simply transfer over their rights because you ask them to. The new lender needs to "buy" the note from the old lender, essentially like it already happens on the secondary market, except this note is sold individually and specifically vs. just a random note.
Thanks for clarifying. I guess you will 100% you won't see transfer tax in the refi is when you refi with the original lender.
zrzhu111
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by zrzhu111 »

yogesh wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:03 pm Update:
Both LenderFi and Better offered 30yr/Fixed/2.625/$0 (A+B+C+E-J) or 30yr/Fixed/2.5/$2000 (A+B+C+E-J) today so moving forward with lock.
Should I move forward with LenderFi or Better or it doesn't matter? Both seemed straightforward with good apps/website to me.
Did you ask them to math any offers you have or they offered the rate to you? In my Better account, I didn't see the 2.625% with no costs. Thanks.
yogesh
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Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:20 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by yogesh »

It showed up under my account
2.5% with $2000 closing
2.625 with $0 closing
Last edited by yogesh on Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Emergency: FDIC | Taxable: VTMFX | Retirement: TR2040
JBTX
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JBTX »

NRF wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:23 pm Looking for advice.

I refinanced in March 2020, just before COVID rate drop. Currently 5 months into a 20 yr. fixed at 3.25%. Closing costs in March were $3,500. Mortgage balance at time of refinance was $305,000. I pay $30 month in PMI.

I now have an offer to refinance into a 15 year at 2.25%. Loan balance is now $300,000, which would also be refinance amount. No cash out in potential refi. Estimating closing cost (A-C) are $3500. No PMI with new loan. I will pay all prepaids (E-H) with cash. They are estimated at $14,000, most of which I’ll be reimbursed from current escrow.

Tax escrows are high b\c I’m in Texas (no state income tax).

Seeking the expert advice of my Bogleheads experts. Should I refinance again? I’m about to turn 47 and would like house paid off before I retire.

I have no debt other than mortgage, 6 month emergency fund, but two kids in 9th and 6th grade. No 529, would plan on cash flowing college. I’m a divorced dad (head of household), making $265,000 before bonus (usually about $20k). Currently have $825,000 In pretax retirement funds.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Makes sense to me. I'm working on a 2.25 cash out 15 year refi in TX and my closing costs are higher. $3500 of closing costs in TX for a $300k loan is very good. If I were in your shoes I'd definitely pull the trigger on that one.
Last edited by JBTX on Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

sunny_socal wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:07 pm Finally found one of the mythical 2.5% loans!
- First found a decent deal w/ Amerisave ($500 application fee, credited to you at closing if you don't bail....)
- Went back to Loan Depot with that deal and have them beat it

Now I'm at:
- 460k loan, 30yr
- 2.5%
- $2400 lender credit
- Still 3k of my own costs (rolled into the above loan)

Not as great as some people are getting, but much better than a couple weeks ago. Lesson: You really have to push these people, don't accept the first answer you get. It helps to shop around, I think I've applied at 6 places.

Loan Cabin also finally got back to me. Still planning on sticking with LD unless something better comes along. LD is quoting 2w for loan approval, then another 30-40 days for closing, so hopefully all done before December.
What did LC come back with?
zrzhu111
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by zrzhu111 »

I don't think i need to lock the rate with Better before I ask them to match rates from other lenders, right?
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

zrzhu111 wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:45 pm I don't think i need to lock the rate with Better before I ask them to match rates from other lenders, right?
No, you don't.
bgh11
Posts: 92
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

sunny_socal wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:07 pm Finally found one of the mythical 2.5% loans!
- First found a decent deal w/ Amerisave ($500 application fee, credited to you at closing if you don't bail....)
- Went back to Loan Depot with that deal and have them beat it

Now I'm at:
- 460k loan, 30yr
- 2.5%
- $2400 lender credit
- Still 3k of my own costs (rolled into the above loan)

Not as great as some people are getting, but much better than a couple weeks ago. Lesson: You really have to push these people, don't accept the first answer you get. It helps to shop around, I think I've applied at 6 places.

Loan Cabin also finally got back to me. Still planning on sticking with LD unless something better comes along. LD is quoting 2w for loan approval, then another 30-40 days for closing, so hopefully all done before December.
My guess is you were able to get the LE from Amerisave without paying the $500? Thanks.
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sunny_socal
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sunny_socal »

bgh11 wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:01 am
sunny_socal wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:07 pm Finally found one of the mythical 2.5% loans!
- First found a decent deal w/ Amerisave ($500 application fee, credited to you at closing if you don't bail....)
- Went back to Loan Depot with that deal and have them beat it

Now I'm at:
- 460k loan, 30yr
- 2.5%
- $2400 lender credit
- Still 3k of my own costs (rolled into the above loan)

Not as great as some people are getting, but much better than a couple weeks ago. Lesson: You really have to push these people, don't accept the first answer you get. It helps to shop around, I think I've applied at 6 places.

Loan Cabin also finally got back to me. Still planning on sticking with LD unless something better comes along. LD is quoting 2w for loan approval, then another 30-40 days for closing, so hopefully all done before December.
My guess is you were able to get the LE from Amerisave without paying the $500? Thanks.
Yes, but not without having the Amerisave quote in hand. Before going through AS the other quotes were pitiful, ranging 6k-10k in closing costs (ie. out of pocket, after all rebates.) Was I a chump to spend the $500? Seems worth it to save 0.25% in the rate (ie. LD vs AS)

All I have so far from Loan Cabin is a small email reply, at least there's been initial contact. I'll keep all these applications active and see which one closes first. AS has a head start but so far the LD process has been the smoothest and their website is excellent.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

sunny_socal wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:58 am
bgh11 wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:01 am My guess is you were able to get the LE from Amerisave without paying the $500? Thanks.
Yes, but not without having the Amerisave quote in hand. Before going through AS the other quotes were pitiful, ranging 6k-10k in closing costs (ie. out of pocket, after all rebates.) Was I a chump to spend the $500? Seems worth it to save 0.25% in the rate (ie. LD vs AS)

All I have so far from Loan Cabin is a small email reply, at least there's been initial contact. I'll keep all these applications active and see which one closes first. AS has a head start but so far the LD process has been the smoothest and their website is excellent.
Sunny,

I think there is some confusion between your reply and bgh11's question. S/he was asking if you got the quote/loan estimate from Amerisave without paying the $500. Based on your reply, it sounds like the answer is "no, I paid the $500 fee, but still came out ahead and thus, it was worth paying even if I close with Loan Depot". Is this a correct understanding/clarification?
Qw1221wq
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Qw1221wq »

If disbursement is tomorrow and rate lock expires day after, do I need to worry about extending the rate lock? Or is it all over once the disbursement occurs?
leviathan
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by leviathan »

Qw1221wq wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:18 am If disbursement is tomorrow and rate lock expires day after, do I need to worry about extending the rate lock? Or is it all over once the disbursement occurs?
It is all over once the disbursement occurs. My rate lock expired two days before the disbursement date. It was extended to the disbursement date.
InvestDoc
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestDoc »

leviathan wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:46 am
Qw1221wq wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:18 am If disbursement is tomorrow and rate lock expires day after, do I need to worry about extending the rate lock? Or is it all over once the disbursement occurs?
It is all over once the disbursement occurs. My rate lock expired two days before the disbursement date. It was extended to the disbursement date.
I would say it's locked in once you've signed the closing documents. For example, I recently refinanced with Owning.com and the closing date was 2 weeks prior to when they finally disbursed the funds. They can't change the terms of the loan once you've signed a legal contract, and certainly they can't change the terms after disbursing the money, so I wouldn't worry if your loan is being disbursed tomorrow.
Br69102
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Br69102 »

Hi All,

Quick question. I locked with Better a few weeks ago and of course rates and credits have gotten better since then. Basically I could get $3K more in credits at the same rate for a 15 yr refinance. Do I need to go get another quote from another lender to get Better to come down to the new pricing? Has anyone successfully had Better update to current pricing?

Thanks
FAO89
Posts: 3
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by FAO89 »

Newbie question on Credit Pulls. Looking to refi.

Anticipating that every lender application I submit which will require SSAN, will be a hard pull and result in a hit to the credit score.

Does anyone know what is the "average" decrement to my credit score for each loan application/credit pull?

Is there an community consensus or views on the optimum number of applications to ensure a good competitive rate, facilitate negotiating with offers in hard, and not hurt the credit score too badly?

I've read some contributors sayong to apply to many of the top refi companies as possible (5-8??) - but that seems dangerous to my credit score.

Thanks!
presto987
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

FAO89 wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:47 pm Newbie question on Credit Pulls. Looking to refi.

Anticipating that every lender application I submit which will require SSAN, will be a hard pull and result in a hit to the credit score.

Does anyone know what is the "average" decrement to my credit score for each loan application/credit pull?

Is there an community consensus or views on the optimum number of applications to ensure a good competitive rate, facilitate negotiating with offers in hard, and not hurt the credit score too badly?

I've read some contributors sayong to apply to many of the top refi companies as possible (5-8??) - but that seems dangerous to my credit score.

Thanks!
When you are shopping for rates, multiple hard pulls within a short period of time are treated as a single pull. You have at minimum a 14-day window within which they are all treated as a single pull (could be as long as a 45-day window depending on which credit score you're talking about, I believe).
bgh11
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:13 am
sunny_socal wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:58 am
bgh11 wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:01 am My guess is you were able to get the LE from Amerisave without paying the $500? Thanks.
Yes, but not without having the Amerisave quote in hand. Before going through AS the other quotes were pitiful, ranging 6k-10k in closing costs (ie. out of pocket, after all rebates.) Was I a chump to spend the $500? Seems worth it to save 0.25% in the rate (ie. LD vs AS)

All I have so far from Loan Cabin is a small email reply, at least there's been initial contact. I'll keep all these applications active and see which one closes first. AS has a head start but so far the LD process has been the smoothest and their website is excellent.
Sunny,

I think there is some confusion between your reply and bgh11's question. S/he was asking if you got the quote/loan estimate from Amerisave without paying the $500. Based on your reply, it sounds like the answer is "no, I paid the $500 fee, but still came out ahead and thus, it was worth paying even if I close with Loan Depot". Is this a correct understanding/clarification?
Thank you BrandonBogle for asking for clarification. Do you have experience with AmeriSave? Do you know if they send out LE prior to the $500 fee? Also, I have heard mixed answers whether the $500 is paid as an application/origination fee or Amerisave will not charge the $500 and apply for closing costs or refund the $500 upon closing. Thanks again!
zrzhu111
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by zrzhu111 »

Need your input based on the rates I got so far. My current rate is 3.25% and still have almost 30 years to go. The loan balance is $486,000 and LTV is about 60%. My property is in NY.

Overall comment: It doesn't seem any lender want to give enough lender credit to cover Section E based on the lenders i spoke to so far; Spoke to 2 brokers, none of them are competitive since they all charge section A fees.

Comparison with Section E included:
1. Broker #1 - it's so hard form them to provide LE. I know i should ask them for no point rates. After I asked for non point rates, 2.625% rates was provided, but no LE. Broker #1 is out of my selection now.
2. With section E fee included in the comparison, Lender #3 and Lender #5 are the best options so far for 2.75%.
3. Should I ask lender #3 to match #5 or vice versa? I'm not sure which makes more sense. Note the transfer tax in Lender #3 LE (yellow highlighted row), I think it's not correct since it's much higher than other lenders.

Comparison with no Section E included:
Since i'm at 3.25% now and no lenders I spoke to want to give enough credit to cover Section E, I think it might make sense for me to get 2.75% with myself paying Section E.
1. Lender #5 is a little bit better than lender #3. Same question as above, whom should I ask to match?
2. Is 2.75% a good rate with myself paying section E fees in NY state?


Please recommend any lenders I should apply to in NY. Thanks.

Image
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

bgh11 wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:22 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:13 am
sunny_socal wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:58 am
bgh11 wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:01 am My guess is you were able to get the LE from Amerisave without paying the $500? Thanks.
Yes, but not without having the Amerisave quote in hand. Before going through AS the other quotes were pitiful, ranging 6k-10k in closing costs (ie. out of pocket, after all rebates.) Was I a chump to spend the $500? Seems worth it to save 0.25% in the rate (ie. LD vs AS)

All I have so far from Loan Cabin is a small email reply, at least there's been initial contact. I'll keep all these applications active and see which one closes first. AS has a head start but so far the LD process has been the smoothest and their website is excellent.
Sunny,

I think there is some confusion between your reply and bgh11's question. S/he was asking if you got the quote/loan estimate from Amerisave without paying the $500. Based on your reply, it sounds like the answer is "no, I paid the $500 fee, but still came out ahead and thus, it was worth paying even if I close with Loan Depot". Is this a correct understanding/clarification?
Thank you BrandonBogle for asking for clarification. Do you have experience with AmeriSave? Do you know if they send out LE prior to the $500 fee? Also, I have heard mixed answers whether the $500 is paid as an application/origination fee or Amerisave will not charge the $500 and apply for closing costs or refund the $500 upon closing. Thanks again!
I honestly don’t recall if I got an LE from Amerisave during refis one and two. I do have credit score disclosures from both saved, so my guess would be I never got an LE. This is generally something I save just for reference from every lender I get one from.

Having not proceeded with them either time due to better pricing elsewhere (and then not wanting to beat it), I never proceeded past the soft credit pull. However, generally speaking, this would be charged as an application fee alongside any origination fees and listed as a “P.O.C.” (paid outside closing) on the disclosures.

For Loan Depot, they didn’t charge an app fee per-see, but instead make you pay the credit report fee ($21) when you give them the intent to proceed/complete the rate lock.
bgh11
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:53 pm
bgh11 wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:22 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:13 am
sunny_socal wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:58 am
bgh11 wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:01 am My guess is you were able to get the LE from Amerisave without paying the $500? Thanks.
Yes, but not without having the Amerisave quote in hand. Before going through AS the other quotes were pitiful, ranging 6k-10k in closing costs (ie. out of pocket, after all rebates.) Was I a chump to spend the $500? Seems worth it to save 0.25% in the rate (ie. LD vs AS)

All I have so far from Loan Cabin is a small email reply, at least there's been initial contact. I'll keep all these applications active and see which one closes first. AS has a head start but so far the LD process has been the smoothest and their website is excellent.
Sunny,

I think there is some confusion between your reply and bgh11's question. S/he was asking if you got the quote/loan estimate from Amerisave without paying the $500. Based on your reply, it sounds like the answer is "no, I paid the $500 fee, but still came out ahead and thus, it was worth paying even if I close with Loan Depot". Is this a correct understanding/clarification?
Thank you BrandonBogle for asking for clarification. Do you have experience with AmeriSave? Do you know if they send out LE prior to the $500 fee? Also, I have heard mixed answers whether the $500 is paid as an application/origination fee or Amerisave will not charge the $500 and apply for closing costs or refund the $500 upon closing. Thanks again!
I honestly don’t recall if I got an LE from Amerisave during refis one and two. I do have credit score disclosures from both saved, so my guess would be I never got an LE. This is generally something I save just for reference from every lender I get one from.

Having not proceeded with them either time due to better pricing elsewhere (and then not wanting to beat it), I never proceeded past the soft credit pull. However, generally speaking, this would be charged as an application fee alongside any origination fees and listed as a “P.O.C.” (paid outside closing) on the disclosures.

For Loan Depot, they didn’t charge an app fee per-see, but instead make you pay the credit report fee ($21) when you give them the intent to proceed/complete the rate lock.
Thanks much again.
I did soft pull and a hard pull with Amerisave but didn’t move forward as the rates at the time was not attractive and didn’t like the $500 charge upfront. I still wonder if Amerisave applies the $500 for closing expenses or if it is equivalent to the $1595 from LD where it is pure profit for The lender to keep.
mega317
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mega317 »

mega317 wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:37 am
Johny wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:22 am Why does owning have people sign closing docs before underwriting approves loan? Does it speed things up? What if numbers change between closing disclosure and underwriting?
And they most certainly will change. I speculated earlier in the thread that in a declining rate environment they want to sign quickly lock you in—can’t back out after 3 days from signing to pursue a better offer while you wait for underwriting. I’m just guessing, I don’t know the business at all.

I also read that they own the escrow company so I imagine they will be in no great hurry to refund the difference.
I felt obliged to follow this up--I got a check for the difference, which was over $1000, 3 days after funding.
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6212
mega317
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mega317 »

perceptionist wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:25 am
mega317 wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:43 pm Someone owes me over $1000 in extra interest paid on both ends (prepaids were from 9/14 and the estimated payoff amount went into October) and I'm not thrilled about how they close before underwriting, but hey I just dropped my rate by 0.5% no-cost in 3 weeks.
I hope you get that money back without too much hassle. I also locked with Owning on 9/1 and signed closing docs on 9/15. On 9/19 they just asked me to take a few photos of the home since the city I live in was part of the wildfires (she already gave me a heads up that I would need to do that later). I will contact the processor tomorrow to see if everything went through as planned and if the loan was funded.
For follow up, as I just posted, I got the check in 3 days. Have you funded and gotten your money back?
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6212
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

mrmicro wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:53 pm Just closed my refi with Better today
Locked: 9/1
Loan funded: 9/28
Better Credits: No cost + ~3K credits
Rate: 2.5% 30 yr fixed in CA

Does anyone know what would be the wait period to refi again? Interactive Mortgage is offering 2.375. Is there a 6 month wait period with Better or do they take back credits if I refi even before the first payment?
No wait period with Better, unless they've changed their policies. I closed with them in July and locked with Lenderfi on a new refi the very next day.
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FrugalProfessor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by FrugalProfessor »

ChiKid24 wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:57 pm
mrmicro wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:53 pm Just closed my refi with Better today
Locked: 9/1
Loan funded: 9/28
Better Credits: No cost + ~3K credits
Rate: 2.5% 30 yr fixed in CA

Does anyone know what would be the wait period to refi again? Interactive Mortgage is offering 2.375. Is there a 6 month wait period with Better or do they take back credits if I refi even before the first payment?
No wait period with Better, unless they've changed their policies. I closed with them in July and locked with Lenderfi on a new refi the very next day.
Why did you do back-to-back refi's? Did rates fall dramatically or are you just playing the exploiting-lender-credits game (and rinsing and repeating)?
I blog. Taxes are the lowest hanging source of alpha. I eat tax alpha for breakfast.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

FrugalProfessor wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:59 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:57 pm
mrmicro wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:53 pm Just closed my refi with Better today
Locked: 9/1
Loan funded: 9/28
Better Credits: No cost + ~3K credits
Rate: 2.5% 30 yr fixed in CA

Does anyone know what would be the wait period to refi again? Interactive Mortgage is offering 2.375. Is there a 6 month wait period with Better or do they take back credits if I refi even before the first payment?
No wait period with Better, unless they've changed their policies. I closed with them in July and locked with Lenderfi on a new refi the very next day.
Why did you do back-to-back refi's? Did rates fall dramatically or are you just playing the exploiting-lender-credits game (and rinsing and repeating)?
I did something similar. For me, both. Rates went down (though the math worked out for me not to lower the rate) and got $10k in profit from credits.
zrzhu111
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by zrzhu111 »

zrzhu111 wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:29 pm Need your input based on the rates I got so far. My current rate is 3.25% and still have almost 30 years to go. The loan balance is $486,000 and LTV is about 60%. My property is in NY.

Overall comment: It doesn't seem any lender want to give enough lender credit to cover Section E based on the lenders i spoke to so far; Spoke to 2 brokers, none of them are competitive since they all charge section A fees.

Comparison with Section E included:
1. Broker #1 - it's so hard form them to provide LE. I know i should ask them for no point rates. After I asked for non point rates, 2.625% rates was provided, but no LE. Broker #1 is out of my selection now.
2. With section E fee included in the comparison, Lender #3 and Lender #5 are the best options so far for 2.75%.
3. Should I ask lender #3 to match #5 or vice versa? I'm not sure which makes more sense. Note the transfer tax in Lender #3 LE (yellow highlighted row), I think it's not correct since it's much higher than other lenders.

Comparison with no Section E included:
Since i'm at 3.25% now and no lenders I spoke to want to give enough credit to cover Section E, I think it might make sense for me to get 2.75% with myself paying Section E.
1. Lender #5 is a little bit better than lender #3. Same question as above, whom should I ask to match?
2. Is 2.75% a good rate with myself paying section E fees in NY state?


Please recommend any lenders I should apply to in NY. Thanks.

Image
Just want to check if anyone can share their thoughts on my situation. I think i should ask lender #5 to match #3 then I can ask lender #4 (Better) to match whatever the better one between the #5 and #3. Thanks.
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

If I'm just in this game for no-costs refinances at a lower rate... am I pretty much done for now?

I'm at 30 year fixed, 2.5%, no escrows, single family home, max super conforming loan in CA, LTV 75%... credit, income, assets all check out.

I see a 2.375% with interactive mortgage but it looks like they require 60% LTV, and probably an escrow account.

Am I done or should I be applying places?
mega317
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mega317 »

^You're probably done. 1/8% isn't going to be that big a deal anyway.
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6212
fuzzball
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by fuzzball »

Has anyone used LoanDepot's preferred title agency? I got a FGE from ClosingUSA. How accurate is their estimate?

Are the quoted commission for title agent and underwriter a fee that I pay? Those figures were not included "total fee". Do they also charge a "closing fee"?

I notice that quotes I've gotten else where will disclose those charges, but do not include it in the calculations of fees paid by borrower.
mrmicro
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mrmicro »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:34 pm
FrugalProfessor wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:59 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:57 pm
mrmicro wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:53 pm Just closed my refi with Better today
Locked: 9/1
Loan funded: 9/28
Better Credits: No cost + ~3K credits
Rate: 2.5% 30 yr fixed in CA

Does anyone know what would be the wait period to refi again? Interactive Mortgage is offering 2.375. Is there a 6 month wait period with Better or do they take back credits if I refi even before the first payment?
No wait period with Better, unless they've changed their policies. I closed with them in July and locked with Lenderfi on a new refi the very next day.
Why did you do back-to-back refi's? Did rates fall dramatically or are you just playing the exploiting-lender-credits game (and rinsing and repeating)?
I did something similar. For me, both. Rates went down (though the math worked out for me not to lower the rate) and got $10k in profit from credits.
While I was pretty deep into the process with Better @2.5, IM offered me 2.375. I checked with Better but they couldn’t match. I continued the closing since I was almost done with the process.
Now thinking if it makes sense for me to jump onto IM to get that lower rate. Saves me $80 of interest per month.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

^ To save almost $1000 in the first year, I think it’s worth it. Shouldn’t take too much effort on your part either, since you already have your documents and are familiar with the refi process. Plus I think Interactive Mortgage is pretty efficient and streamlined generally.

If you refi immediately, then Better won’t be able to make money on your loan, but that’s business. They could have matched IM’s rate but opted not to.

Have you already closed with Better? If not, I would recommend moving up in rate to maximize your lender credits if you know you are going to refi again anyway.
pumpkinwaggle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pumpkinwaggle »

Hi all, first time posting here, looking for advice on what would be the best offer on a cashout refinance I am doing (to refinance 2 loans into one). It would be for a 30 year term for a loan total about 340k.

Here is a summary of the offer I got with the fees and rates. Hopefully that is the right way to provide the information and that would allow you to let me know how to best evaluate these side by side. I tried to post all the fees in this summary.

I'd prefer not to have to put out much cash upfront because I am not 100% sure how long I'll be in this house. I also plan on putting the savings from these new terms back into extra principal payments and try to pay it out in about 15-20 years if that can swing the decision one way or another.

Image

Would love to hear what you all think about these.

Better has been really good at adjusting their offers to other offers I provided to them. If there is a different option you see for Better out of the ones I posted above I'd love to hear it and ask them to adjust to that.

One more question: Does it make really any difference if the property taxes to pre-pay are included in the loan or is it recommended to have them out (as they should wash out with the escrow I will get back from my other lender), and it is even possible for the lender to keep them out of the loan altogether? (I think that is what Amerisave has done above)

PS: I also had a good rate from home depot but was reading horror stories about super long closing time and lack of support from multiple people and so I will pass on them.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

zrzhu111 wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:03 pm Just want to check if anyone can share their thoughts on my situation. I think i should ask lender #5 to match #3 then I can ask lender #4 (Better) to match whatever the better one between the #5 and #3. Thanks.
This is basically what I did in my refis. I would take my best two, send the best to Better, send their counteroffer to the second-best. If that one beat it, send the new offer to lender whose offer I sent to Better, or send Better's counteroffer there if the second-best didn't beat it.

The gotcha in this is your transfer taxes. I don't recall at the moment, but transfer taxes may be one of the items the CFPB doesn't allow a lender to charge more for than what's on the locked loan estimate. However, if you send lender #5 #3's offer, they may realize they are underpricing the transfer taxes and raise it. It's a gamble.

Personally, I'm reasonably happy with Better and their counteroffers, so I would risk it. If #5 suddenly sours the transfer taxes, you can always since the original #5 (or #3) offer to Better.
zrzhu111
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by zrzhu111 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:42 pm
zrzhu111 wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:03 pm Just want to check if anyone can share their thoughts on my situation. I think i should ask lender #5 to match #3 then I can ask lender #4 (Better) to match whatever the better one between the #5 and #3. Thanks.
This is basically what I did in my refis. I would take my best two, send the best to Better, send their counteroffer to the second-best. If that one beat it, send the new offer to lender whose offer I sent to Better, or send Better's counteroffer there if the second-best didn't beat it.

The gotcha in this is your transfer taxes. I don't recall at the moment, but transfer taxes may be one of the items the CFPB doesn't allow a lender to charge more for than what's on the locked loan estimate. However, if you send lender #5 #3's offer, they may realize they are underpricing the transfer taxes and raise it. It's a gamble.

Personally, I'm reasonably happy with Better and their counteroffers, so I would risk it. If #5 suddenly sours the transfer taxes, you can always since the original #5 (or #3) offer to Better.
Really appreciate your input here. I'll start the game. :D

In terms of transfer tax, I think it should be around $4000. I spoke to one broker who told me the transfer tax in NY Nassau county is about .08% of the loan amount. I'm not really too worry about it since this is government fee.

Based on reading here, it doesn't seem 2.75% is a good rate even with no cost. Not sure about in NY state, maybe 2.75% with some costs are still decent?
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

pumpkinwaggle wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:26 pm Hi all, first time posting here, looking for advice on what would be the best offer on a cashout refinance I am doing (to refinance 2 loans into one). It would be for a 30 year term for a loan total about 340k.

Here is a summary of the offer I got with the fees and rates. Hopefully that is the right way to provide the information and that would allow you to let me know how to best evaluate these side by side. I tried to post all the fees in this summary.

I'd prefer not to have to put out much cash upfront because I am not 100% sure how long I'll be in this house. I also plan on putting the savings from these new terms back into extra principal payments and try to pay it out in about 15-20 years if that can swing the decision one way or another.

Image

Would love to hear what you all think about these.

Better has been really good at adjusting their offers to other offers I provided to them. If there is a different option you see for Better out of the ones I posted above I'd love to hear it and ask them to adjust to that.

One more question: Does it make really any difference if the property taxes to pre-pay are included in the loan or is it recommended to have them out (as they should wash out with the escrow I will get back from my other lender), and it is even possible for the lender to keep them out of the loan altogether? (I think that is what Amerisave has done above)

PS: I also had a good rate from home depot but was reading horror stories about super long closing time and lack of support from multiple people and so I will pass on them.
Out of these options, I would definitely pick Better #2. If you're not sure how long you'll be in the house, then you want to avoid paying closing costs. Even if you wind up being in the house for a long time, there's a good chance you'll be able to do a rate-and-term refi in 6 months at a slightly better rate. If you do that, then any closing costs you pay now will have been wasted (except for saving a bit on 6 months of interest). So you want your net cost (A+B+C+E-LC) to be negative even if it means a 2.75% rate instead of 2.625% or 2.5%.

By the same logic, I would recommend checking how much lender credit Better offers at a 2.875% rate. Then calculate how long it would take for the interest saved at 2.75% to exceed the difference in lender credit. You might find that breakeven point to be around 3 years. If you might sell the house before that, or at least would consider refinancing again during that timeframe, you may be better off with the higher rate.

A few other thoughts:
1. Note that your "E" cost is going to be the same regardless of lender. Better seems to be overly conservative in their estimates, so that $370 is likely to drop to $172 or lower at closing. So your net cost there is probably at least $200 better than what you're calculating.
2. With Better, you can easily save around $200 on "C" costs by getting a title quote from Radian and asking Better to either use Radian for title or at least price match them.
3. Do you qualify for an appraisal waiver? If so, Better will ultimately refund $550 of your "B" costs.

Other lenders to consider:
- When you say "Home Depot", I assume you mean LoanDepot. I did read the horror stories as well, but if you'd like, I can refer you to an LO there who is responsive, helpful, pleasant to deal with, and offers good deals. LD seems to be highly variable depending on whom you're dealing with.
- Since you have Owning on here, you must be in CA. In that case, you may want to check out Interactive Mortgage. They are offering rates as low as 2.375% if you satisfy various conditions. I believe they charge half a point for cash-outs though. I don't know if they'd be willing to raise your rate in exchange for a lender credit to cover this half point cost... but you could ask. If they do, then you can probably get 2.5% or at least 2.625% at no cost. Still, I would probably lean toward taking the higher lender credits through Better.
- Did you try LenderFi? They often offer the best quotes.
- Loan Cabin is very slow to get back to people, but you could submit an application anyway. Meanwhile, lock with Better and proceed with that process. Then if you get an LE from Loan Cabin before you close with Better, and it is better than your Better pricing, you can submit another price-match request at that point.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

presto987 wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:05 pm
pumpkinwaggle wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:26 pm Here is a summary of the offer I got with the fees and rates.
Out of these options, I would definitely pick Better #2. ...

By the same logic, I would recommend checking how much lender credit Better offers at a 2.875% rate. Then calculate how long it would take for the interest saved at 2.75% to exceed the difference in lender credit. You might find that breakeven point to be around 3 years. If you might sell the house before that, or at least would consider refinancing again during that timeframe, you may be better off with the higher rate.

A few other thoughts:
1. Note that your "E" cost is going to be the same regardless of lender. Better seems to be overly conservative in their estimates, so that $370 is likely to drop to $172 or lower at closing. So your net cost there is probably at least $200 better than what you're calculating.
2. With Better, you can easily save around $200 on "C" costs by getting a title quote from Radian and asking Better to either use Radian for title or at least price match them.
3. Do you qualify for an appraisal waiver? If so, Better will ultimately refund $550 of your "B" costs.
I concur with everything presto has written (even the rest of the post I didn't quote).
mrmicro
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mrmicro »

presto987 wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:29 pm ^ To save almost $1000 in the first year, I think it’s worth it. Shouldn’t take too much effort on your part either, since you already have your documents and are familiar with the refi process. Plus I think Interactive Mortgage is pretty efficient and streamlined generally.

If you refi immediately, then Better won’t be able to make money on your loan, but that’s business. They could have matched IM’s rate but opted not to.

Have you already closed with Better? If not, I would recommend moving up in rate to maximize your lender credits if you know you are going to refi again anyway.
Yes, closed with Better already but that was a smart recommendation :-). I was hoping Better would just match the rate and I won't have to do this again. But they decided not to.
pumpkinwaggle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pumpkinwaggle »

presto987 wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:05 pm
pumpkinwaggle wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:26 pm Hi all, first time posting here, looking for advice on what would be the best offer on a cashout refinance I am doing (to refinance 2 loans into one). It would be for a 30 year term for a loan total about 340k.

Here is a summary of the offer I got with the fees and rates. Hopefully that is the right way to provide the information and that would allow you to let me know how to best evaluate these side by side. I tried to post all the fees in this summary.

I'd prefer not to have to put out much cash upfront because I am not 100% sure how long I'll be in this house. I also plan on putting the savings from these new terms back into extra principal payments and try to pay it out in about 15-20 years if that can swing the decision one way or another.

Image

Would love to hear what you all think about these.

Better has been really good at adjusting their offers to other offers I provided to them. If there is a different option you see for Better out of the ones I posted above I'd love to hear it and ask them to adjust to that.

One more question: Does it make really any difference if the property taxes to pre-pay are included in the loan or is it recommended to have them out (as they should wash out with the escrow I will get back from my other lender), and it is even possible for the lender to keep them out of the loan altogether? (I think that is what Amerisave has done above)

PS: I also had a good rate from home depot but was reading horror stories about super long closing time and lack of support from multiple people and so I will pass on them.
Out of these options, I would definitely pick Better #2. If you're not sure how long you'll be in the house, then you want to avoid paying closing costs. Even if you wind up being in the house for a long time, there's a good chance you'll be able to do a rate-and-term refi in 6 months at a slightly better rate. If you do that, then any closing costs you pay now will have been wasted (except for saving a bit on 6 months of interest). So you want your net cost (A+B+C+E-LC) to be negative even if it means a 2.75% rate instead of 2.625% or 2.5%.

By the same logic, I would recommend checking how much lender credit Better offers at a 2.875% rate. Then calculate how long it would take for the interest saved at 2.75% to exceed the difference in lender credit. You might find that breakeven point to be around 3 years. If you might sell the house before that, or at least would consider refinancing again during that timeframe, you may be better off with the higher rate.

A few other thoughts:
1. Note that your "E" cost is going to be the same regardless of lender. Better seems to be overly conservative in their estimates, so that $370 is likely to drop to $172 or lower at closing. So your net cost there is probably at least $200 better than what you're calculating.
2. With Better, you can easily save around $200 on "C" costs by getting a title quote from Radian and asking Better to either use Radian for title or at least price match them.
3. Do you qualify for an appraisal waiver? If so, Better will ultimately refund $550 of your "B" costs.

Other lenders to consider:
- When you say "Home Depot", I assume you mean LoanDepot. I did read the horror stories as well, but if you'd like, I can refer you to an LO there who is responsive, helpful, pleasant to deal with, and offers good deals. LD seems to be highly variable depending on whom you're dealing with.
- Since you have Owning on here, you must be in CA. In that case, you may want to check out Interactive Mortgage. They are offering rates as low as 2.375% if you satisfy various conditions. I believe they charge half a point for cash-outs though. I don't know if they'd be willing to raise your rate in exchange for a lender credit to cover this half point cost... but you could ask. If they do, then you can probably get 2.5% or at least 2.625% at no cost. Still, I would probably lean toward taking the higher lender credits through Better.
- Did you try LenderFi? They often offer the best quotes.
- Loan Cabin is very slow to get back to people, but you could submit an application anyway. Meanwhile, lock with Better and proceed with that process. Then if you get an LE from Loan Cabin before you close with Better, and it is better than your Better pricing, you can submit another price-match request at that point.
Thank you so much!!! I really appreciate the detailed explanation. Here is a follow up with some information based on your comments.

I checked the 2.875% at Better and it would result in a (A+B+C+E-LC) = -$2,753 (a credit). P&I would be $1,436. At 2.75% the P&I would be $1,413 so $23 less and be $2,132 less in credit ((A+B+C+E-LC) = -$621). So the break even would be 92 months or 7.7 years which seems to make sense to not pay extra closing fee for such a long break even time and given the fact that I want to pay it down faster.

For your comments 2, I will check Radian out and mention that to them. Is that "Radian" or "Radian Title Direct"? For comment 3 some quotes I got mentioned that they can waive the appraisal so I will also check with Better.

About the other lender:
- I did mean Loan Depot... I think it's fine, it seems that everyone is having a good experience with Better and I don't really want to take the risk for a few dollars a month. I post an updated table below with the info from Loan Depot. Looking at the numbers they provide the best rate but the closing cost are quite high at (A+B+C+E-LC) at $3,678. I would have to ask them a new estimate for a higher rate but no cost then given the direction you pointed me towards above?
- I am in CA. I submitted an application to Interactive Mortgage today. I haven't talked to anybody yet so I will need to follow up tomorrow. I will ask about the rate and fees as you suggest. Let's see if I can get an estimate tomorrow. Talking about Owning, they quoted me a really high origination fee for the cash-out option and apparently they cannot budge so that won't work for me.
- Did a quick only quote on LenderFi and they seem to not be as good as Better. They show 2.875% with no closing cost but no credit like Better has and I don't know if I want to go through one more application so I think I will pass......
- Also submitted an application to Loan Cabin. Let's see what they say.

Any comments on the #1 option? That was an option with about a wash on the costs at $-246 and should be a bit better if I can work out the items 1-2-3 you mention above. The total loan amount after refi would be quite a bit lower because they didn't wrap all the property taxes in there. That was one of the first offers when I asked them to give me offers similar to others I had. Note that the cash to close include property taxes so that would also be paid by the money I would get back from my current escrow. Am I understanding correctly that the options #2 total loan differs (is higher) because they just wrapped all the escrow and everything into the loan and giving me cash at closing?

Is the question here to pick between getting extra cash after all is done but with a higher loan total (#2) or having a lower loan but getting everything done for a wash (#1)?

It seems that Better would be the best option here given the rate, the fact I can get a credit and the good experience people have on the speed of closing overall.

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