Refinance Mega Thread

[fuzzball]

Locked in 2.375%, Points paid 0.78, 30 yrs with LoanDepot.
Refi 727k
Cash to close for me is 25k (~15k in transfer taxes.. NYS)
Escrow is waived.
My P&I goes down by 804/month and my breakeven is 32-33 months.
*LD does not process CEMA applications... so I have to pay the transfer/recording taxes again.

I do have a few Q's:
Are the points and transfer taxes on a refi deductible on taxes? I will be itemizing again for this year.

When does it make sense to roll in the closing cost?

Right now, I pay 4500/month (PITI). My new PI is 2825 (escrow waived). If I can swing it, should I keep making the 4500/month payment (with any excess going to principle? Or is there a better way to pay this off?

In your scenario, it would really depend on cash-flow and those darn transfer taxes. If you roll in the closing costs, you will raise the loan amount about $25k and pay more transfer tax on the higher loan amount.

But given the plan to continue paying $4,500/mo, I think you are fine if you want to roll in the costs as you’ll be paying that portion down very quickly.

Out of curiosity, did you ask them what your par (0 point) rate is? That 0.78 point is $5,670 by itself. Likely it is worth it, but it doesn’t hurt to ask.

On the point of income taxes, points I believe can be deducted over the life of the loan. I think there are provisions to deducted in the year the loan originates, but that may be limited to purchase loans vs. refis. Others will hopefully chime in with more info.

Btw for others, given that fuzzball is stuck with the transfer tax bill and most lenders that are competitive just won’t do a CEMA right now (the loan will assuredly not be sold to Fannie/Freddie by 12/1 with a CEMA), this is one of those cases were it will make sense to pay reasonable points. The idea is that you put yourself in your forever rate now, as refinancing again will be cost-prohibitive without a CEMA, and those who will do one likely won’t give you 2.5% or so on a 30-year at little A + B + C cost.

Par rate was 2.75. The 2.375% rate required 2.2+ points. They gave me a 1.5 point discount. That’s why it was only ~3/4 of point to get that lower rate.

They mention that that even after rate lock, I can use the 1.5 points towards closing or taxes. That will put me at the higher rate tho.

I’m just thinking long terms at this point.

[jco]

What an awesome refi thread! I'm still confused though . We're those people that nearly double our monthly mortgage payment with the goal of paying the house off ASAP. We understand the opportunity cost, but the satisfaction of not having a mortgage is so enticing (we also save a significant portion of our income, so we're not cash poor). Anyway, we are comparing refinance opportunities and I'm still not entirely clear on how to calculate the closing cost break-even date.

In your case, if you can find a no-cost loan (A+B+C+E on your Loan Estimate are less than the Lender Credit), then it's an instant win and pure savings for you. You're paying everything down so aggressively, I think the payback period will be quite a while for you. It's probably not worth it to pay points.

[BrandonBogle]

Anyway, here's our situation:

Original loan: $139,650
Current balance: $88,000
Current rate: 4.625%
Current term: 30 years
Refi rate: 2.5%
Refi term: 15 years
Refi cash out: $0
Refi closing costs: $3,042
Monthly payment: $1740 (includes minimum + extra; will not change regardless of refi decision)

If we don't refinance, we're going to put the closing costs toward our current principal.

Given your low balance, I would ask the lender to give you 2.625% or even 2.75% to bring those closing costs to zero. The overall change in interest even if you paid just the minimum monthly payment wouldn’t be too much. Couple that with paying extra and the value in paying closing costs is barely there.

[prosperosdaughter]

Just finalized my refi with Load Depot. Very quick and smooth experience. Highly recommend.

30yr at 2.25%

I'd love to know your LO if you're willing to share any info.

FWIW, I've been lurking here for a while and just started sending out refi applications to the frequently mentioned companies--LD, LC, FL, Watermark. Will try Better and QL once I have a LE. Any recommendations for a mortgage lender in Michigan? House value is 400k, loan 250k, LTV 63%, 800+ credit scores, no cash out.

I'd love to get a one-and-done refi locked in now before the fannie/freddie fee hits.

[jco]

According to Mortgage News Daily, 30-year rates went up by .15% yesterday, on average. http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortga ... daily.aspx

The ReFi gravy train may be coming to an end, at least for now, because of the 0.5% adverse market fee being imposed by Fannie Mae.

If you still have the chance to lock a low rate today, I'd definitely recommend doing it!

[perceptionist]

I'm currently in the process with Owning. Applied on 9/1 and will be signing closing docs with the notary tonight. I've read some people mention that Owning will move forward with closing docs before the loan being approved by underwriting. Anyone want to share their experiences with that? Is there anything I should look out for? How long should I expect for it to be 100% complete?

Lol yep. I posted last night on this. Applied 8/31, Signed Thursday, last night there was a kind of frantic call from LO because underwriting doesn’t like how my paystubs are reported out. More phone calls today, apparently my wife’s (kind of small) income which we hadn’t included will make the difference? Don’t have final word yet. I wish they would just wait to sign, I don’t understand. Maybe while rates are dropping they want to lock you in?
I think someone else posted last week that underwriting was asking for documents weeks after they signed.

Wow weeks after signing? I've never went through anything like this before and I've probably done about 4 refi's before this. As long as they communicate well and not mess up anything I don't mind, but it's such a odd way to complete the process. I will post an update when everything is finalized and the loan is disbursed.

Owning took 2 weeks after I signed before they disbursed. Now I wonder if I was still in underwriting during that time. My loan team disappeared and never communicated with me after I signed so it was really difficult to get updates about what was going on and when the loan would fund. I wonder if they do this so they can claim they close on loans in 2-3 weeks to draw more people in. Very frustrating process considering you only have 3 days to withdraw after signing the papers. I had to give the notary a check but someone else here reported not giving any money until the disbursement date was finalized so that the prepaids could be accurately calculated. If you have this option I highly recommend this because they made mistakes in my prepaids and it took a few weeks and multiple calls and emails to get a refund for the additional refund they owed me.

That sucks. Hopefully I don't need to go through all of that. They were very good at communicating and responsive to emails, however not sure now since I signed last night. I need to make sure I keep track of everything and stay in the loop.

[changingtimes]

As a data point, I applied with Better on 9/10 for a 2.875% 30-year fixed for $277k, we locked the same day, and I'm now in Conditional Approval, with their now having ordered the title report. They waived my apprisal (LTV of about 28%).

We'll see how it goes from here, but the staff I have worked with so far have been incredibly speedy. (as have I!)

Just following up that I decided to start an application with LenderFi, just to see what they would offer, and they offered 2.75% with no closing costs, and waived appraisal.

I sent it to Better, and they matched what they could (except on title stuff), so it's now only $1200 in closing costs with Better, and I think I'm going to stay with them--we're much further down the road in the process, plus they seem a lot more interested in my business and also seem better able to handle subordination of my HELOC and also the deed stuff with my trust (the LF guy seemed a bit bewildered by the trust, and also was pushing me to just close the HELOC to avoid the hassle). Just a comfort+ease factor that outweighs $1200.

My P/& will drop by $400, so I'm not really all that concerned about the closing costs.

[BashDash]

I am looking for some refi assistance. If anyone is interested in guiding me from very beginning please PM me I would be grateful.

[postal007]

I'm currently in the process with Owning. Applied on 9/1 and will be signing closing docs with the notary tonight. I've read some people mention that Owning will move forward with closing docs before the loan being approved by underwriting. Anyone want to share their experiences with that? Is there anything I should look out for? How long should I expect for it to be 100% complete?

Lol yep. I posted last night on this. Applied 8/31, Signed Thursday, last night there was a kind of frantic call from LO because underwriting doesn’t like how my paystubs are reported out. More phone calls today, apparently my wife’s (kind of small) income which we hadn’t included will make the difference? Don’t have final word yet. I wish they would just wait to sign, I don’t understand. Maybe while rates are dropping they want to lock you in?
I think someone else posted last week that underwriting was asking for documents weeks after they signed.

Wow weeks after signing? I've never went through anything like this before and I've probably done about 4 refi's before this. As long as they communicate well and not mess up anything I don't mind, but it's such a odd way to complete the process. I will post an update when everything is finalized and the loan is disbursed.

Owning took 2 weeks after I signed before they disbursed. Now I wonder if I was still in underwriting during that time. My loan team disappeared and never communicated with me after I signed so it was really difficult to get updates about what was going on and when the loan would fund. I wonder if they do this so they can claim they close on loans in 2-3 weeks to draw more people in. Very frustrating process considering you only have 3 days to withdraw after signing the papers. I had to give the notary a check but someone else here reported not giving any money until the disbursement date was finalized so that the prepaids could be accurately calculated. If you have this option I highly recommend this because they made mistakes in my prepaids and it took a few weeks and multiple calls and emails to get a refund for the additional refund they owed me.

That sucks. Hopefully I don't need to go through all of that. They were very good at communicating and responsive to emails, however not sure now since I signed last night. I need to make sure I keep track of everything and stay in the loop.

This has gotten me concerned too. I applied 8/31, signed Monday 9/14. Reached out after seeing these posts and my LO assures me this morning he has everything, checked, and we should be on track for a smooth funding assuming the notary got all the docs right (being sent via overnight to them). And he promises not to ghost me. We'll see where things end up, will post on my experience.

[LiterallyIronic]

Can anyone recommend a lender for this this situation? Or a few to check on?

Original Mortgage: $149,000
Current balance: $131,999
Rate: 3.875% fixed
Length: 30 years
Median Credit Score: ~800
Location: Utah

I don't need absolute best possible mathematical option, but it's important to me that the loan isn't serviced by some terrible provider that makes it hard to pay (or have to pay to pay) or screws up the escrow, etc. Just looking if there is something better than I have.

[dks05c]

Quick question regarding Better.com appraisal. When I locked my rate in the appraisal status on the website was instantaneously updated to "ordered". However, the appraisal has not yet been scheduled. If I decided to walk (there are a few reasons at this point tbh), would I be able to get my $550 deposit back? Part of the reason I locked was because the website said that this $550 is refundable, so I was surprised to see the appraisal ordered instantaneously upon locking.

[presto987]

Quick question regarding Better.com appraisal. When I locked my rate in the appraisal status on the website was instantaneously updated to "ordered". However, the appraisal has not yet been scheduled. If I decided to walk (there are a few reasons at this point tbh), would I be able to get my $550 deposit back? Part of the reason I locked was because the website said that this $550 is refundable, so I was surprised to see the appraisal ordered instantaneously upon locking.

If you qualify for an appraisal waiver, they will refund the $550 after closing. If you walk, they should also refund it as no appraisal was done.

If you did not qualify for an appraisal waiver, then they should refund it if you walk before the appraisal is done (i.e. before they pay the appraiser). They would not refund it after the appraisal.

[zrzhu111]

Hi Owning has 30 YR FIXED for 2.375%Rate and 2.474%APR. i know we want no cost with the lowest rates. some people got 2.625% with no cost from LF. In what scenario it would make sense to take Owning rate with some cost? Maybe the rate will never go down below 2.375%? Thanks.

Nobody knows what rates will do. All we can do is focus on what we have now, not what we may get in the future. I would go for the lowest cost and lowest rate possible. I'm at 2.5% with 0 costs from interactive mortgage. I've been in my home for almost 2 years and my rate was at 4.375% when I first bought my home. I'm doing another 30 because these rates are so incredibly cheap.

Agree that Nobody knows what rates will do. I guess my question is if I'm willing to pay the closing costs with lower rate and believe the rate in the future will not be lower than what I'm going to get now. It makes sense to get the lower rate with closing costs now, right? There're going to be a breakpoint for the closing costs paid.

Assume the breakpoint for the closing costs is 18 months, so as long as the rate will not get lower than what i'm going to get now (2.375%) with closing cost. so after 18 months, i'll be better off since the rate i have will be better than the rates offered in the market after 18 months. I'm not sure if my logics makes sense here. Thanks.

[just_me]

What do you think of this LE from my Credit Union? Ally Bank offered two different estimates. Am I missing something as the CU offer seems like an obvious choice?

15-year refi consolidation for First and HELOC. Owe 10-years, plan to make extra payments to pay off in 8 years.
Primary rate 4.25% - $119,119
Heloc rate 3.25% - $27,350

Property value
$265,000
Loan amount
$150,000
Mortgage balance
$146,448
Cash out
$27,329

Credit Union offered 2.5%
A.875
B.$1323
C. 0
D. A+B+C = $2198
E. 0
F. 146
I. E+F+G+H = $146
D + I = $2,344
TOTAL CLOSING COSTS = $2,344
Cash to borrower: $1,208

Ally Bank offered 2.5%
A.$2,775
B.616
C.855
D. A+B+C = $4246
E. 60
F. 797
I. E+F+G = $857
D + I = $4246
Lender Credits- $0
TOTAL CLOSING COSTS = $5,103

Ally Bank offered 3%
A.995
B.616
C.855
D. A+B+C = $2466
E. 60
F. 829
I. E+F+G = $889
D + I = $3233
Lender Credits- $122
TOTAL CLOSING COSTS = $3,233
Cash to borrower: $319

[kmanjir]

Quick question regarding Better.com appraisal. When I locked my rate in the appraisal status on the website was instantaneously updated to "ordered". However, the appraisal has not yet been scheduled. If I decided to walk (there are a few reasons at this point tbh), would I be able to get my $550 deposit back? Part of the reason I locked was because the website said that this $550 is refundable, so I was surprised to see the appraisal ordered instantaneously upon locking.

If you qualify for an appraisal waiver, they will refund the $550 after closing. If you walk, they should also refund it as no appraisal was done.

If you did not qualify for an appraisal waiver, then they should refund it if you walk before the appraisal is done (i.e. before they pay the appraiser). They would not refund it after the appraisal.

Let's say you don't qualify for an appraisal waiver, does anyone know at what point the fee is paid to the appraiser (and thus becomes non-refundable):

- Is it after the appraisal is ordered but before you schedule the appraisal (so you have some control over the timing of when the appraisal fee is paid out to the appraiser)? OR
- Is it as soon as the appraisal is in 'ordered' state and you don't have any control over the payment of the fee to the appraiser, regardless of when you schedule the appraisal (or not)?

[perceptionist]

Lol yep. I posted last night on this. Applied 8/31, Signed Thursday, last night there was a kind of frantic call from LO because underwriting doesn’t like how my paystubs are reported out. More phone calls today, apparently my wife’s (kind of small) income which we hadn’t included will make the difference? Don’t have final word yet. I wish they would just wait to sign, I don’t understand. Maybe while rates are dropping they want to lock you in?
I think someone else posted last week that underwriting was asking for documents weeks after they signed.

Wow weeks after signing? I've never went through anything like this before and I've probably done about 4 refi's before this. As long as they communicate well and not mess up anything I don't mind, but it's such a odd way to complete the process. I will post an update when everything is finalized and the loan is disbursed.

Owning took 2 weeks after I signed before they disbursed. Now I wonder if I was still in underwriting during that time. My loan team disappeared and never communicated with me after I signed so it was really difficult to get updates about what was going on and when the loan would fund. I wonder if they do this so they can claim they close on loans in 2-3 weeks to draw more people in. Very frustrating process considering you only have 3 days to withdraw after signing the papers. I had to give the notary a check but someone else here reported not giving any money until the disbursement date was finalized so that the prepaids could be accurately calculated. If you have this option I highly recommend this because they made mistakes in my prepaids and it took a few weeks and multiple calls and emails to get a refund for the additional refund they owed me.

That sucks. Hopefully I don't need to go through all of that. They were very good at communicating and responsive to emails, however not sure now since I signed last night. I need to make sure I keep track of everything and stay in the loop.

This has gotten me concerned too. I applied 8/31, signed Monday 9/14. Reached out after seeing these posts and my LO assures me this morning he has everything, checked, and we should be on track for a smooth funding assuming the notary got all the docs right (being sent via overnight to them). And he promises not to ghost me. We'll see where things end up, will post on my experience.

Did they give you a timeline? I'll give it a little time and reach out to them on either Friday or Monday.

Also on a totally different question. Will the previous lender automatically send me a check for funds held in the escrow account? When I last did a refi back in April it was with the same lender so I just got a check from them at the end.

[Calirefi2020]

Fellow LD refi applicants who recently closed your loan, quick question on closing timeline, I locked my rate on 9/1 and my loan status currently is "Conditional underwriting approval", could you share your experience and timeline from this point onwards leading to closing? Thank You

[dks05c]

Quick question regarding Better.com appraisal. When I locked my rate in the appraisal status on the website was instantaneously updated to "ordered". However, the appraisal has not yet been scheduled. If I decided to walk (there are a few reasons at this point tbh), would I be able to get my $550 deposit back? Part of the reason I locked was because the website said that this $550 is refundable, so I was surprised to see the appraisal ordered instantaneously upon locking.

If you qualify for an appraisal waiver, they will refund the $550 after closing. If you walk, they should also refund it as no appraisal was done.

If you did not qualify for an appraisal waiver, then they should refund it if you walk before the appraisal is done (i.e. before they pay the appraiser). They would not refund it after the appraisal.

Let's say you don't qualify for an appraisal waiver, does anyone know at what point the fee is paid to the appraiser (and thus becomes non-refundable):

- Is it after the appraisal is ordered but before you schedule the appraisal (so you have some control over the timing of when the appraisal fee is paid out to the appraiser)? OR
- Is it as soon as the appraisal is in 'ordered' state and you don't have any control over the payment of the fee to the appraiser, regardless of when you schedule the appraisal (or not)?

I assumed since the appraisal was ordered that I don't qualify for an appraisal waiver. Is this not the case? I'm pretty surprised that an appraisal is needed as my LTV is 60%, maybe less, and I didn't need an appraisal for my Feb 2020 refi (different lender). Lenderfi waived the appraisal on their LE but even with that, Better's total package is better by around $800.

[MrJedi]

Also on a totally different question. Will the previous lender automatically send me a check for funds held in the escrow account? When I last did a refi back in April it was with the same lender so I just got a check from them at the end.

I refinanced out of a small local lender. Funding was on 8/26. I received a check through the mail on 9/14 with my old escrow and the funding overpayment. These two items were itemized in the letter and then totaled on a single check. No action on my part.

[mega317]

Owning took 2 weeks after I signed before they disbursed. Now I wonder if I was still in underwriting during that time. My loan team disappeared and never communicated with me after I signed so it was really difficult to get updates about what was going on and when the loan would fund. I wonder if they do this so they can claim they close on loans in 2-3 weeks to draw more people in. Very frustrating process considering you only have 3 days to withdraw after signing the papers. I had to give the notary a check but someone else here reported not giving any money until the disbursement date was finalized so that the prepaids could be accurately calculated. If you have this option I highly recommend this because they made mistakes in my prepaids and it took a few weeks and multiple calls and emails to get a refund for the additional refund they owed me.

I'm sure you were in underwriting while waiting. Seems like experiences are varied. I did NOT pay on the signing date and I was aware at that time that underwriting wasn't done. Yes the 3 days made me uncomfortable also, although I could have shopped and locked with someone else at any point as a backup. Not until last night was I told that the loan was approved and I was given a dollar figure to send. But I was NOT given a final disbursement date and the prepaids are for sure going to be off by at least a little since they assumed from yesterday. On the phone last night LO said it will be 5 days. I will update.

Who do you call to get refund for prepaids?

[Calirefi2020]

Just looked at new refi LE posted by my underwriter from LD..There is a big difference in numbers from the initial locked in rate LE and the new one. My lender credits of$3300 are gone under section J and on top of that I am being charged additional $1264 (0.204 points) as origination fees.. Has anyone gone through this BS experience? Is there something I can still do asking them to honor the original numbers? Thanks

[2quiker]

Applied with Better, Lenderfi and Watermark. Watermark had the better offer and I sent the LE to Better and Better just offered to beat it by a lousy $100.I haven't heard from lenderfi.

[jco]

Applied with Better, Lenderfi and Watermark. Watermark had the better offer and I sent the LE to Better and Better just offered to beat it by a lousy $100.I haven't heard from lenderfi.

I'm not sure why that's lousy. Better is closing loans pretty quickly and Watermark is taking obscene amounts of time. It's a $100 extra with a company that is likely to be much better to work with. Additionally, you may be able to get them to go down on title fees, etc. if you shop around. I saved around $315 by using my own title company.

[2quiker]

Applied with Better, Lenderfi and Watermark. Watermark had the better offer and I sent the LE to Better and Better just offered to beat it by a lousy $100.I haven't heard from lenderfi.

I'm not sure why that's lousy. Better is closing loans pretty quickly and Watermark is taking obscene amounts of time. It's a $100 extra with a company that is likely to be much better to work with. Additionally, you may be able to get them to go down on title fees, etc. if you shop around. I saved around $315 by using my own title company.

I did a refi with Better in march and my experience was awful.

[jco]

I did a refi with Better in march and my experience was awful.

That would explain it then! What was negative about your experience?

I'm literally working through a refi with them right now. Everything has been pretty straightforward. Their online system is really slick. They had a few questions about things like paystubs and such, but thankfully, for me, it's all been pretty easy. I hope it stays that way .... I was told that hopefully we will be approved to close next week (locked on 9/1).

[prosperosdaughter]

Just got a LE from LenderFi and wanted to know thoughts about the offer.

Loan amount: 248k
30 year fixed 2.625%
A+B+C+E=$1002
Lender credit $122

Any ideas? Worth it to keep shopping or should we lock tonight?

[atx1202]

Just got a LE from LenderFi and wanted to know thoughts about the offer.

Loan amount: 248k
30 year fixed 2.625%
A+B+C+E=$1002
Lender credit $122

Any ideas? Worth it to keep shopping or should we lock tonight?

That’s a decent rate. LenderFi normally waives appraisal and if that’s the case, go ahead and lock the rate (no cost to lock) and keep shopping.

I started with LenderFi LE, pitching it with Loan depot and better to get a pretty good deal.

[Xrayman69]

Fellow LD refi applicants who recently closed your loan, quick question on closing timeline, I locked my rate on 9/1 and my loan status currently is "Conditional underwriting approval", could you share your experience and timeline from this point onwards leading to closing? Thank You

Locked rate early August. All our “paper work” in within 1 week and confirmed by middle of August. No verbal communication since. Only communication has been on the online file in which no additional needed activity at this time p. Underwriting for at least 2 weeks now. From what I have seen by others upstream it would appear to be 30-45 days from time of underwriting.

Sorry that’s all I got for you.

[atx1202]

Hello, I have LEs from LD and LC for a similar closing cost on 30yr fixed, 2.5%, $500 closing costs.

Which one would you all suggest that I lock with among LD/LC? Is one of them better over the other in terms of processing pipeline, time to close or responsiveness?

Would appreciate if folks who have closed with LC/LD can share their thoughts on closing duration and overall experience. Thank you!

Update: Locked with LD after additional lender credit.

I’m currently shopping for title services and contacted Radian title. They refused to provide a quote for LD as they don’t have a relationship with them. Waiting to hear back from Amrock.

Do you all have recommendations for other reputed title services company which gives out competitive quotes? Looking to get the lenders title insurance cost down - LD has quoted $2200 for that alone.

[spitaxe]

Just focus on the interest savings. It’s a good assumption to keep the same payment you are making today, and thus the shift is cutting interest (since that now flows to principal).

So simple, rounded math is that you’ll save 2% in interest each year on the refi. As compared to your current mortgage that means about $1,700 - $1,800 per year in the short-term. Your payback is in the 20 month range.

If you are on an extreme paydown schedule currently (maybe you are planning to pay it off in 4 years, for example), then the $1,700 - $1,800 estimate is high and your break even is longer and the refi may not be worthwhile.

That makes sense. Thank you! You're explanation lines up with my amortization projections too. Since we're on an accelerated payoff schedule, we'll break even on the closing costs after 26 months instead of 20 months.

Very helpful! My new motto....focus on the interest.

[bgh11]

Just looked at new refi LE posted by my underwriter from LD..There is a big difference in numbers from the initial locked in rate LE and the new one. My lender credits of$3300 are gone under section J and on top of that I am being charged additional $1264 (0.204 points) as origination fees.. Has anyone gone through this BS experience? Is there something I can still do asking them to honor the original numbers? Thanks

Did you ask the LO to explain?

[bgh11]

Fellow LD refi applicants who recently closed your loan, quick question on closing timeline, I locked my rate on 9/1 and my loan status currently is "Conditional underwriting approval", could you share your experience and timeline from this point onwards leading to closing? Thank You

Locked rate early August. All our “paper work” in within 1 week and confirmed by middle of August. No verbal communication since. Only communication has been on the online file in which no additional needed activity at this time p. Underwriting for at least 2 weeks now. From what I have seen by others upstream it would appear to be 30-45 days from time of underwriting.

Sorry that’s all I got for you.

I was in "Conditional underwriting approval" for about 40 days. LD asked for a new bank and mortgage statements after 45 days from the date I locked. All documents were uploaded to them promptly within 6 hours. My LO was responsive to emails. Took me about 75 days from locking rate in early July to sign with a Notary! Not sure how others are able to close with LD in 30 days. I would suggest keep shopping while waiting and ask LD to match.

[BrandonBogle]

Agree that Nobody knows what rates will do. I guess my question is if I'm willing to pay the closing costs with lower rate and believe the rate in the future will not be lower than what I'm going to get now. It makes sense to get the lower rate with closing costs now, right? There're going to be a breakpoint for the closing costs paid.

Assume the breakpoint for the closing costs is 18 months, so as long as the rate will not get lower than what i'm going to get now (2.375%) with closing cost. so after 18 months, i'll be better off since the rate i have will be better than the rates offered in the market after 18 months. I'm not sure if my logics makes sense here. Thanks.

Your logic makes sense, but keep in mind how you are calculating those 18 months.

For me, I break refinancing down into two decisions - (1) whether to refi or not, (2) whether to buy down the rate or not. For # 1, I compare what a no-cost or low-cost refi compared to what I have now would get me. For # 2, I compare the cost of the points against the mortgage offer from # 1, NOT my existing loan.

So, for example, I have the option today for 2.625% 15-year at no cost (actually walk away with $150 profit). So # 1 says “do the refi”. Now, I have the option to buy the rate down all the way to 1.875%. If I went for 2.5% though, the difference is $600 in fewer credits, so $450 I pay to close. However, over the 15-years, there is a $1,500 difference between 2.625% and 2.5% in total interest paid. So if I get the lower rate, I only make an extra $900 since of that $1,500, I have to keep in mind I “paid“ $600 to get that rate. Looking at an amortization table, it would take nearly 5 years for the interest savings between 2.5% and 2.625% to exceed $600. So between the small amount saved and the 5 year payback period, it wasn’t worth it to go for the lower rate.

However, if I compare the 2.5% to my current mortgage, I would have made up that extra $600 (or the $450 I would pay since 2.625% actually earned $150 vs. no-cost) in early 2021. In my book, that doesn’t mean my payback period is 5 months. You may, however, feel it is.

So given the above, how did you calculate 18 months?

[Goal33]

Posted this in the LenderFi thread but figured I'd ask here since it's relevant to all lenders:

Signing/Closing on Friday 9/18

Disbursement on Wednesday 9/23

On the "CALIFORNIA PER DIEM INTEREST CHARGE DISCLOSURE" there is an option to check or not check a box that says "I request loan disbursement occur on a Monday or a day immediately following a bank holiday. As such, interest will commence to accrue on the business day immediately preceding the day of disbursement."

My goal is to have my previous loan paid off as fast as possible, even if at the expense of more days interest. I do not want any delays in their funding of this loan. Should I check, or not check this box. I do not understand it... appreciate any clarity.

[BrandonBogle]

What do you think of this LE from my Credit Union? Ally Bank offered two different estimates. Am I missing something as the CU offer seems like an obvious choice?

...

Credit Union offered 2.5%
A.875
B.$1323
C. 0
D. A+B+C = $2198
E. 0

...

Ally Bank offered 2.5%
A.$2,775
B.616
C.855
D. A+B+C = $4246
E. 60

The credit union is over $2k cheaper for the same rate. This is assuming both of these offers are for the 10-year loan. Are you sure you aren’t comparing 10 years at the credit union to 15, 20, or 30 years at Ally?

Also, take a look at Third Federal. They have around 2.8% for $300 in closing costs. That rate is higher, but overall, the savings might be worth it as $150k would be roughly $2.5k over 10-years in interest savings at 2.5% instead of 2.8%.

[just_me]

What do you think of this LE from my Credit Union? Ally Bank offered two different estimates. Am I missing something as the CU offer seems like an obvious choice?

...

Credit Union offered 2.5%
A.875
B.$1323
C. 0
D. A+B+C = $2198
E. 0

...

Ally Bank offered 2.5%
A.$2,775
B.616
C.855
D. A+B+C = $4246
E. 60

The credit union is over $2k cheaper for the same rate. This is assuming both of these offers are for the 10-year loan. Are you sure you aren’t comparing 10 years at the credit union to 15, 20, or 30 years at Ally?

Also, take a look at Third Federal. They have around 2.8% for $300 in closing costs. That rate is higher, but overall, the savings might be worth it as $150k would be roughly $2.5k over 10-years in interest savings at 2.5% instead of 2.8%.

It's a 15-year for the LE's. I currently have 10 years left on the Primary but plan to pay if off faster.

First Credit Union is defintely cheaper but that's the loan adjustment Ally gave me after I sent the LE to them. I thought it was odd and quite expensive but it was more of an apple/apples comparison as my initial LE from Ally was the 3% rate I listed in my post.

Looks like Ally doesn't want to match the LE so I'll stick with the CU. I did look into your suggestion but they listed no products available in my Soutwest area.

[keith6014]

whats the preference between LenderFi and Loan Depot? Who closes the fastest?

[InvestDoc]

I'm currently in the process with Owning. Applied on 9/1 and will be signing closing docs with the notary tonight. I've read some people mention that Owning will move forward with closing docs before the loan being approved by underwriting. Anyone want to share their experiences with that? Is there anything I should look out for? How long should I expect for it to be 100% complete?

Lol yep. I posted last night on this. Applied 8/31, Signed Thursday, last night there was a kind of frantic call from LO because underwriting doesn’t like how my paystubs are reported out. More phone calls today, apparently my wife’s (kind of small) income which we hadn’t included will make the difference? Don’t have final word yet. I wish they would just wait to sign, I don’t understand. Maybe while rates are dropping they want to lock you in?
I think someone else posted last week that underwriting was asking for documents weeks after they signed.

Wow weeks after signing? I've never went through anything like this before and I've probably done about 4 refi's before this. As long as they communicate well and not mess up anything I don't mind, but it's such a odd way to complete the process. I will post an update when everything is finalized and the loan is disbursed.

Owning took 2 weeks after I signed before they disbursed. Now I wonder if I was still in underwriting during that time. My loan team disappeared and never communicated with me after I signed so it was really difficult to get updates about what was going on and when the loan would fund. I wonder if they do this so they can claim they close on loans in 2-3 weeks to draw more people in. Very frustrating process considering you only have 3 days to withdraw after signing the papers. I had to give the notary a check but someone else here reported not giving any money until the disbursement date was finalized so that the prepaids could be accurately calculated. If you have this option I highly recommend this because they made mistakes in my prepaids and it took a few weeks and multiple calls and emails to get a refund for the additional refund they owed me.

That sucks. Hopefully I don't need to go through all of that. They were very good at communicating and responsive to emails, however not sure now since I signed last night. I need to make sure I keep track of everything and stay in the loop.

Yes, and keep track of your payoff with your old lender. Owning sent my payoff just a couple of days before I would have been charged late fees for my payment with the old lender. All they could tell me was that they didn’t know when the loan would fund and that I could always make the extra payment and then ask for a refund when the payoff came through.

[InvestDoc]

Lol yep. I posted last night on this. Applied 8/31, Signed Thursday, last night there was a kind of frantic call from LO because underwriting doesn’t like how my paystubs are reported out. More phone calls today, apparently my wife’s (kind of small) income which we hadn’t included will make the difference? Don’t have final word yet. I wish they would just wait to sign, I don’t understand. Maybe while rates are dropping they want to lock you in?
I think someone else posted last week that underwriting was asking for documents weeks after they signed.

Wow weeks after signing? I've never went through anything like this before and I've probably done about 4 refi's before this. As long as they communicate well and not mess up anything I don't mind, but it's such a odd way to complete the process. I will post an update when everything is finalized and the loan is disbursed.

Owning took 2 weeks after I signed before they disbursed. Now I wonder if I was still in underwriting during that time. My loan team disappeared and never communicated with me after I signed so it was really difficult to get updates about what was going on and when the loan would fund. I wonder if they do this so they can claim they close on loans in 2-3 weeks to draw more people in. Very frustrating process considering you only have 3 days to withdraw after signing the papers. I had to give the notary a check but someone else here reported not giving any money until the disbursement date was finalized so that the prepaids could be accurately calculated. If you have this option I highly recommend this because they made mistakes in my prepaids and it took a few weeks and multiple calls and emails to get a refund for the additional refund they owed me.

That sucks. Hopefully I don't need to go through all of that. They were very good at communicating and responsive to emails, however not sure now since I signed last night. I need to make sure I keep track of everything and stay in the loop.

This has gotten me concerned too. I applied 8/31, signed Monday 9/14. Reached out after seeing these posts and my LO assures me this morning he has everything, checked, and we should be on track for a smooth funding assuming the notary got all the docs right (being sent via overnight to them). And he promises not to ghost me. We'll see where things end up, will post on my experience.

Mine also promised not to ghost me but completely disappeared after I signed the papers. Like complete night and day experience with the communication before and after signing while waiting for funding. Hope it works out better for you.

[InvestDoc]

Owning took 2 weeks after I signed before they disbursed. Now I wonder if I was still in underwriting during that time. My loan team disappeared and never communicated with me after I signed so it was really difficult to get updates about what was going on and when the loan would fund. I wonder if they do this so they can claim they close on loans in 2-3 weeks to draw more people in. Very frustrating process considering you only have 3 days to withdraw after signing the papers. I had to give the notary a check but someone else here reported not giving any money until the disbursement date was finalized so that the prepaids could be accurately calculated. If you have this option I highly recommend this because they made mistakes in my prepaids and it took a few weeks and multiple calls and emails to get a refund for the additional refund they owed me.

I'm sure you were in underwriting while waiting. Seems like experiences are varied. I did NOT pay on the signing date and I was aware at that time that underwriting wasn't done. Yes the 3 days made me uncomfortable also, although I could have shopped and locked with someone else at any point as a backup. Not until last night was I told that the loan was approved and I was given a dollar figure to send. But I was NOT given a final disbursement date and the prepaids are for sure going to be off by at least a little since they assumed from yesterday. On the phone last night LO said it will be 5 days. I will update.

Who do you call to get refund for prepaids?

I automatically got a check from the escrow company fairly quickly after the loan disbursed, but they had miscalculated the prepaids by one day (in their favor). So I contacted my loan processor and Owning customer service and finally got a check directly from Owning. Just do the math and make sure they calculate the prepaids correctly.

[LandOLakes]

Would love the group's input on my situation -- I have a 30-year mortgage at 3.5% (about 27 3/4 years and $530K in principal to go). I got an offer from Better.com because all I'd heard about low rates. For the existing mortgage, they couldn't do much better than my current rate, which I didn't see much point in pursuing. However, if we put in $20K cash to get the loan balance below the conforming limit, the options seem more attractive.

Here is what they are currently offering me for a 30-year $510K loan:

2.875% -$3,180 credits
2.75% -$189 credits
2.625% +$3,440 points
2.5% +6,303 points

The 2.75% offer is intriguing. If I'm understanding it correctly, if I'm willing to put up $20K in extra home equity, I can lower my interest rate by 0.75% for free (actually, for $189 in my pocket), which would reduce my monthly payment by about $420 including the reduced principal.It would stretch the loan term out a bit and also the savings would be slightly less because of the mortgage interest deduction, but that still feels like a good return for just moving $20K on the balance sheet.

Better is giving me a bit of a hard sell to lock before Monday when the FHA fee goes into effect. However, I have some cash lying around and wouldn't need to deplete my emergency fund to do this. Also, to lock just requires a $550 deposit which is refundable if I don't go forward. So seems like it might be worth pulling the trigger just to preserve the option.

Am I missing anything? Am I being silly by not shopping around more?

Thanks in advance!

[DeaconSig]

I appreciate everyone with the suggestions on this thread!

Just locked today 9.16.20 with LenderFi 15 year 2.375% no cost ($1760 credit covered sections A:C). State: NC, Amount: $250k, LTV around 45%. I'm on the hook for prepaid interest and restarting escrow, and with current escrow refund It'll be cash neutral. For some reason, I couldn't get out of an in-person appraisal despite low LTV and prior refi/appraisal less than 1 year old, but Loan Officer was able to increase credit to cover the cost. Rates and credits were much better over the phone than initial quotes shown online (lowest rate shown online was 2.625% with small ~ $200 credit). Compared to Better and LoanDepot, and it wasn't close for my situation.

[BrandonBogle]

Here is what they are currently offering me for a 30-year $510K loan:

2.875% -$3,180 credits
2.75% -$189 credits
2.625% +$3,440 points
2.5% +6,303 points

The 2.75% offer is intriguing. If I'm understanding it correctly, if I'm willing to put up $20K in extra home equity, I can lower my interest rate by 0.75% for free (actually, for $189 in my pocket),

...

Am I missing anything? Am I being silly by not shopping around more?

The rate table options Better is giving you that shows $189 credit for a 2.75% is BEFORE closing costs. So you won’t be walking away with $189 selecting that open. However, the Better portal is very flexible until you lock the rate. So clock “select” on that rate, then click on “Loan Estimate” on the left and share the amounts in Sections D, E, and J (must the lender credit parts in J).

You can click select on different options without committing, so no worries generating the LE like this.

[Calirefi2020]

Just looked at new refi LE posted by my underwriter from LD..There is a big difference in numbers from the initial locked in rate LE and the new one. My lender credits of$3300 are gone under section J and on top of that I am being charged additional $1264 (0.204 points) as origination fees.. Has anyone gone through this BS experience? Is there something I can still do asking them to honor the original numbers? Thanks

Did you ask the LO to explain?

I asked my LO but he has yet to get back to me with any improvement of the credit and numbers..meanwhile, I reached out to my original LO at LF and he said he could restart loan process and give me 2.875 0 cost loan after I send an email withdrawing loan app to LD.. what would you do? By the way, looks like LF closes with in 30 ish days which still is earlier than LD’s timeline which would be 11/1 as of today

[keith6014]

whats the preference between LenderFi and Loan Depot? Who closes the fastest?

anyone?

[Monsterflockster]

Fellow LD refi applicants who recently closed your loan, quick question on closing timeline, I locked my rate on 9/1 and my loan status currently is "Conditional underwriting approval", could you share your experience and timeline from this point onwards leading to closing? Thank You

Timeline: You’ll go past your rate lock.

[Calirefi2020]

whats the preference between LenderFi and Loan Depot? Who closes the fastest?

anyone?

As far as I understand it’s lenderfi 30 days VS loan depot of 60+.. by the way, just FYI, I am in the middle of a mess with LD as they charged me points during loan process and removed lender credits..almost a difference of 6k$

[FS51]

whats the preference between LenderFi and Loan Depot? Who closes the fastest?

anyone?

I can tell you LD tried to play with prepaids and say they were having me bring less cash to close and then tried to put the hard push to lock right away. Lenderfi was a 30 day rate lock and LD was 60 but said they wouldn't promise anything but may be able to get me done in 45. Lenderfi from application to closing was actually less than 3 weeks. Hiccup with documents/notary (not lenderfis fault) caused disbursement of funds to be approximately 25 days including holidays & weekends. Happy lenderfi camper here.

[invest4]

Hello All,

Decided to dive in and appreciate your support.

Original Loan: $370K
Original Rate: 3.25%
Original Term: 30 year
Has been open less than 6 months, but the lender said since I didn't have a cash out, I do not have any restrictions.


Received the following quote LenderFi.

Loan Amount: $369,000

Term: 30 year

Rate: 2.625%

No Escrow

Est. Closing Costs: $422 (Includes $1,170 in loan costs +502 in Other costs, -$1250 in Lender Credits)
Cash to Close: $226 (Includes closing costs - box checked is 'to borrower'

A. $0
B. $217
C. $953
D. Total Loan Costs = $1170

E. $51
F. $451
G. $0
H. $0
I. Total Other Costs = $502

J. Total Closing Costs = 422
D+I = 1,672
Lender Credits = -$1250

Calc Cash to Close
Loan Amount: $369,000
Total Closing Costs (J): -$422
Estimated Total Payoffs and Payments: $368,352

Est. Cash to Close: $226 to borrower
Est. Closing Costs Financed: $422


Apologies if I overdid it on the details, I'm not yet completely 'fluent' in what is vital and didn't want to miss something. A bit unsure what can be picked at and if this appears fairly decent. I had also thought to shop it with Better as a next step. Thanks for sharing your input / feedback.

[LandOLakes]

Here is what they are currently offering me for a 30-year $510K loan:

2.875% -$3,180 credits
2.75% -$189 credits
2.625% +$3,440 points
2.5% +6,303 points

The 2.75% offer is intriguing. If I'm understanding it correctly, if I'm willing to put up $20K in extra home equity, I can lower my interest rate by 0.75% for free (actually, for $189 in my pocket),

...

Am I missing anything? Am I being silly by not shopping around more?

The rate table options Better is giving you that shows $189 credit for a 2.75% is BEFORE closing costs. So you won’t be walking away with $189 selecting that open. However, the Better portal is very flexible until you lock the rate. So clock “select” on that rate, then click on “Loan Estimate” on the left and share the amounts in Sections D, E, and J (must the lender credit parts in J).

You can click select on different options without committing, so no worries generating the LE like this.

Thanks, Brandon. I guess I wasn't understanding correctly!

So the 2.75% and 2.875% options give me:

2.75% 2.875%
A - $0 $0
B - $614 $614
C - $1,632 $1,632
D - $2,246 $2,246
E - $198 $198
F - $585 $611
G - $6,377 $6,377
H - $0 $0
I - $7,160 $7,186
J - $9,217 $6,252

I guess that means I'd be looking at more like a $9K upfront cost (plus $20K in equity) to get the $420 monthly savings I was anticipating @ 2.75%. That still seems like a good deal -- almost $5K a year in savings, which even if I assume 35% tax deduction on interest should pay off in ~3 years. But I guess not as clearly good a deal as before I thought before?