Refinance Mega Thread

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

3of10 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:21 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:32 am Keep in mind homeowners insurance is usually included as well. You typically will see a minimum of 2/12 held (they are allowed to keep a two-month sized reserve for pricing variations year-to-year). However, if you have a payment due within 2-3 months of your closing, they will collect that payment due in addition to the above numbers.

In my case, my taxes are due in Sept (but payable until Jan without penalty). They were collected in addition to my escrow funding. I financed these and the increased loan amount actually enabled a $425 higher lender credit. So I earned $425 more (before interest costs) by financing a few thousand.
The ICD from a refi that I'm assisting with shows:

Section E - property taxes 12 months (prepaid)
Section G -property taxes 6 months (escrow)

These amounts (total of 18 months of property taxes) weren't listed like this on the LE, but all of a sudden showed up on the ICD. From reading your update and researching, it looks like by federal rule, the max # of months for property taxes on a refi should be 14 months (12 months for the year + 2 months in reserve).

Am I correct, and should go after the lender to have the property tax months reduced to 14 months, or is that legal? It just doesn't come across as being legit. Similar to your case, the property taxes are due in Sept (1/2), with the final payment due the end of Dec (1/2).
In my case, I wanted to get my loan as large as possible and was rolling in the costs. So I didn't say a peep when they collected 12 months in Section E and 10 months in Section G. The day of closing, 45 minutes before hand, new closing disclosures were drawn that brought the Section G holding to 2 months. I told them that I don't mind and they could leave it at 10 months, but nope, they said they aren't allowed to hold that much and had to reduce it.

So I wouldn't be surprised if this changed again, but I would just calmly ask them to reduce the Section G holding as 12 months are being held in Section F. Depending on the lender, that is easy to miss as different "teams" are providing the info for each Section and the person handling your file could simply be assuming someone else checked.
Soares1234 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:23 pm
m7a8a6 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:34 pm If I'm only comparing ABCE, then isn't LenderFi better? Or am I missing something that Better.com's is better? Take Better's estimate back to LenderFi and ask to match or beat?
Did you go to better and ask if they can beat LenderFI and vice versa?
Better is already beating the LenderFi quote though. viewtopic.php?p=5453168#p5453168
bgh11
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

JSDNJ wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:04 pm
bgh11 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:57 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:01 pm Tried to back door LenderFi, accidentally neglected to change the zip code, but filled in the info and it assigned a loan officer who is not licensed in my state. Now I am stuck and cant apply :oops:

Can anyone recommend another solid lender who would be receptive to trying to beat my locked LE with local lender?
Have u talked to LenderFi to get the zip corrected?

Yea I called them and they said ‘we are shut down how did you even start an app’ and that they weren’t taking apps.
wonder if you can call them again and say delete your info if they "not" taking app, or you can try again if they do a daily or weekly purge
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

m7a8a6 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:46 pm I had also sent the original LenderFi offer (the one above) to AimLoan. Instead of an offer, they came back asking me how much they would need to beat LenderFi's offer by in order for me to move forward?
Ooh. AimLoan's offer is what I sent Better and they beat it by $1k (and waived escrow without a penalty - AimLoan's had escrow). I didn't think about reaching out to AimLoan with the offer from Better and see what they do. Are you going to give them a number and see what they say?
bgh11
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:23 pm
m7a8a6 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:46 pm I had also sent the original LenderFi offer (the one above) to AimLoan. Instead of an offer, they came back asking me how much they would need to beat LenderFi's offer by in order for me to move forward?
Ooh. AimLoan's offer is what I sent Better and they beat it by $1k (and waived escrow without a penalty - AimLoan's had escrow). I didn't think about reaching out to AimLoan with the offer from Better and see what they do. Are you going to give them a number and see what they say?
Interesting! About 2 months ago Aimloan told they don't price match.
zrzhu111
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by zrzhu111 »

Hugo Township wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:05 pm
lawrun21 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:31 pm No points, but total closing costs of ~$4K, unless I get an appraisal waiver in which case the costs will be closer to $3.6K.
The closing costs you should be looking at are the boxes A B C and E, and then the Lender Credits under section J.

It's not clear to me where this $3.6k is going. I think overall 2.75% on a 30 year fixed with no points is a good deal as of today.
Just started reading refinance info in this thread. when we say no cost refi, does it mean that we want to J to be equal or greater than the sum of A, B, C and E, correct?
bgh11
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

zrzhu111 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:06 pm
Hugo Township wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:05 pm
lawrun21 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:31 pm No points, but total closing costs of ~$4K, unless I get an appraisal waiver in which case the costs will be closer to $3.6K.
The closing costs you should be looking at are the boxes A B C and E, and then the Lender Credits under section J.

It's not clear to me where this $3.6k is going. I think overall 2.75% on a 30 year fixed with no points is a good deal as of today.
Just started reading refinance info in this thread. when we say no cost refi, does it mean that we want to J to be equal or greater than the sum of A, B, C and E, correct?
Yes J lender credits equal or greater than A+B+C+E
BarDownHockey
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BarDownHockey »

Has anyone had issues with the payoff amount? I just got my closing package and the payoff is no longer listed as a single dollar amount, but broken up by the components. The document shows:

1. Principal
2. Accrued Interest through closing date
3. Recording Fee
4. A single line titled: Additional Payoff fees / Reconveyance Fee / Recording Fee / Wire fee
5. Total Payoff (sum of 1 through 4)

#5 (the total payoff) is consistent with the total listed on the Closing Disclosures. I reviewed the official payoff documentation from my current lender and #1, #2 and #3 were listed and correctly calculated. The payoff documentation is clear these are the only amounts to payoff my current mortgage.

#4 is a new fee that I'm seeing for the first time, right before closing. It's several hundred $'s. The loan officer said he’s not sure what it is, but believes it is the wire fee charged by either my current mortgage lender or by the title company.

My issues with fee #4 are (1) why was this fee never disclosed? The title company's insurance, recording service, settlement fee, etc. are all separately listed in Section B of the Loan Estimate and Closing Disclosures. Also, my current lender doesn’t have this listed in their official payoff document. Why can this fee be hidden within the payoff amount?, (2) I confirmed with my current lender they accept a mailed check for the payoff; a wire is not required. So even if this is my current lender's fee, it's optional to the extent the title company wants to wire the money. I would think it should then need to be separately disclosed on the LE / CD's, and (3) it seems like an excessive fee to wire money.

Had I known about this, i’d also have factored this into my costs to close while shopping for a refinance. Has anyone seen this before and/or am I misunderstanding the process?
JimmyD
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JimmyD »

Finally heard back from Watermark last night after more than a month. They requested paychecks from my wife (again) and said that we're still moving forward, which surprised me, as I had mentally written them off and gave up on this refi.

Supposedly updated loan documents are coming next, but I'm not holding my breath.
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MathMaster
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MathMaster »

bgh11 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:18 pm Have anyone tried Navy FCU? Not that I am a member but just curious.
15 Year 2.000% rate 0.500 pt 2.212% APR
I considered Navy Federal in the past, but then read the fine print which apply to the rate you mentioned: "Rates quoted above require a 1.00% loan origination fee. The origination fee may be waived for a 0.25% increase in the interest rate. Rates displayed are the as low as rates for purchase loans and refinances of existing Navy Federal loans. Rates for refinance loans where the existing lender is not Navy Federal are subject to a 0.750% higher rate."
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NORDO
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by NORDO »

JSDNJ wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:01 pm Tried to back door LenderFi, accidentally neglected to change the zip code, but filled in the info and it assigned a loan officer who is not licensed in my state. Now I am stuck and cant apply :oops:

Can anyone recommend another solid lender who would be receptive to trying to beat my locked LE with local lender?
Try applying again using a different email address.

If you use Gmail, you can use the alternate address trick by adding punctuation. For example, if your email is john.doe@gmail.com, use jo.hn.doe@gmail.com or john.doe+refi@gmail.com - it'll still go to the same inbox.
reastman
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by reastman »

MathMaster wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:04 am
bgh11 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:18 pm Have anyone tried Navy FCU? Not that I am a member but just curious.
15 Year 2.000% rate 0.500 pt 2.212% APR
I considered Navy Federal in the past, but then read the fine print which apply to the rate you mentioned: "Rates quoted above require a 1.00% loan origination fee. The origination fee may be waived for a 0.25% increase in the interest rate. Rates displayed are the as low as rates for purchase loans and refinances of existing Navy Federal loans. Rates for refinance loans where the existing lender is not Navy Federal are subject to a 0.750% higher rate."
Hi Mathmaster,

Both myself and another worked with NFCU and it was the worst experience I have ever had. So much that I closed my account after the ordeal. 6 months into the refi, after cost of appraisal, they decided they would not lend. Sense my husband was working in Denver at the time said he was not occupying the home as a primary resident.

For a friend of ours, 5 months in NFCU decided not to lend because they determined they didnt want to count all of his income.

I would not walk away from them, I would run.

Hope that helps
Roberta
3of10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:18 pm
3of10 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:21 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:32 am Keep in mind homeowners insurance is usually included as well. You typically will see a minimum of 2/12 held (they are allowed to keep a two-month sized reserve for pricing variations year-to-year). However, if you have a payment due within 2-3 months of your closing, they will collect that payment due in addition to the above numbers.

In my case, my taxes are due in Sept (but payable until Jan without penalty). They were collected in addition to my escrow funding. I financed these and the increased loan amount actually enabled a $425 higher lender credit. So I earned $425 more (before interest costs) by financing a few thousand.
The ICD from a refi that I'm assisting with shows:

Section E - property taxes 12 months (prepaid)
Section G -property taxes 6 months (escrow)

These amounts (total of 18 months of property taxes) weren't listed like this on the LE, but all of a sudden showed up on the ICD. From reading your update and researching, it looks like by federal rule, the max # of months for property taxes on a refi should be 14 months (12 months for the year + 2 months in reserve).

Am I correct, and should go after the lender to have the property tax months reduced to 14 months, or is that legal? It just doesn't come across as being legit. Similar to your case, the property taxes are due in Sept (1/2), with the final payment due the end of Dec (1/2).
In my case, I wanted to get my loan as large as possible and was rolling in the costs. So I didn't say a peep when they collected 12 months in Section E and 10 months in Section G. The day of closing, 45 minutes before hand, new closing disclosures were drawn that brought the Section G holding to 2 months. I told them that I don't mind and they could leave it at 10 months, but nope, they said they aren't allowed to hold that much and had to reduce it.

So I wouldn't be surprised if this changed again, but I would just calmly ask them to reduce the Section G holding as 12 months are being held in Section F. Depending on the lender, that is easy to miss as different "teams" are providing the info for each Section and the person handling your file could simply be assuming someone else checked.
Thanks. That's probably why they call it the "Initial" Closing Document (ICD). It will contain mistakes. It's also another reason why I hate escrows and will never do one for my own refi. There is too much of a gray area in what lenders are collecting, and it's difficult in knowing if the amount is accurate that is refunded back when the escrow is closed.
kryptonic
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kryptonic »

kryptonic wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:11 pm Refinanced through Better.com. Signed closing documents on July 24th, AMEX credit arrived on August 14th.

I did not get a targeted offer to my knowledge, just signed up with better.com through the promotion link.
Requested a credit balance refund by check through the AMEX website and it arrived without issue within a few days.
FiscallyResponsible
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by FiscallyResponsible »

Soares1234 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:20 pm
FiscallyResponsible wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:36 pm For those looking for Cash-out and/or Loan Cabin info:


I FINALLY received loan estimate from Loan Cabin on cash out refi. 2.50% w/$600 Lender Credit for 30 Year Fixed, 100k cash out, $510,400 loan. Current Mortgage is 410k, home worth ~$700k.

A+B+C+E = $2776

Total Closing Costs (after Lender Credit) = $2176.

Loan Cabin did say that all estimates were on the high end for closing fees and that these numbers should drop. I'm not sure if $460 has a chance to be waived for appraisal w/Cash-out. This was waived in previous refi's done this year (non-cash out). I "made" 3200 in early July with my last refi down to 2.625% between AMEX credit and lender credits. Considering I still itemize, I feel like I'm borrowing an extra 100k at <2%. I have no need to tap this money anytime soon and will park it in the S&P or similar until retirement (less 24k to pay off 5% loan). I don't think the non-cash-out rate was that much cheaper.

FYI, Loan Cabin will not allow cash-out over the conforming limit even though their site quotes it.
😮😮what a deal!!!
I've seen competitive rates elsewhere for non-cash out. I have not seen anything close with cash out.
keystone
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by keystone »

For those following Watermark, a friend of mine initiated the process a couple of days after me in late July and is now scheduled for closing on August 28th. So they appear to be moving forward with the applications that were locked prior to the adverse market fee.
sallyann2
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sallyann2 »

Sorry if this has already been covered. I read through some of this post, but not 111 pages!

I have 12 years left on my mortgage so was looking at refinancing to a 10 year fixed. I noticed that AimLoan has a lower APR for a 15 year (2.283) than 10 year (2.423); interest rate for both is 2%. Why would the APR for 15 year be less? I thought the shorter the term, the lower the rate. Should I just get a 15 year and pay extra rather than getting a 10 year?
sharker10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sharker10 »

keystone wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:35 pm For those following Watermark, a friend of mine initiated the process a couple of days after me in late July and is now scheduled for closing on August 28th. So they appear to be moving forward with the applications that were locked prior to the adverse market fee.
Good to know! I initiated August 5th, and just moved into underwriting process late yesterday.
bgh11
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

reastman wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:58 am
MathMaster wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:04 am
bgh11 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:18 pm Have anyone tried Navy FCU? Not that I am a member but just curious.
15 Year 2.000% rate 0.500 pt 2.212% APR
I considered Navy Federal in the past, but then read the fine print which apply to the rate you mentioned: "Rates quoted above require a 1.00% loan origination fee. The origination fee may be waived for a 0.25% increase in the interest rate. Rates displayed are the as low as rates for purchase loans and refinances of existing Navy Federal loans. Rates for refinance loans where the existing lender is not Navy Federal are subject to a 0.750% higher rate."
Hi Mathmaster,

Both myself and another worked with NFCU and it was the worst experience I have ever had. So much that I closed my account after the ordeal. 6 months into the refi, after cost of appraisal, they decided they would not lend. Sense my husband was working in Denver at the time said he was not occupying the home as a primary resident.

For a friend of ours, 5 months in NFCU decided not to lend because they determined they didnt want to count all of his income.

I would not walk away from them, I would run.

Hope that helps
Roberta
Thanks MathMaster & reastman - crossed that possibility off the list.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

sallyann2 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:55 pm Sorry if this has already been covered. I read through some of this post, but not 111 pages!

I have 12 years left on my mortgage so was looking at refinancing to a 10 year fixed. I noticed that AimLoan has a lower APR for a 15 year (2.283) than 10 year (2.423); interest rate for both is 2%. Why would the APR for 15 year be less? I thought the shorter the term, the lower the rate. Should I just get a 15 year and pay extra rather than getting a 10 year?
Part of the APR calculation is taking your (included, as not all are) closing costs, adding it to the loan balance, and dividing by the loan term. All things being equal, a longer term will have a larger denominator and thus, a lower number as a result.
bgh11
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

sallyann2 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:55 pm Sorry if this has already been covered. I read through some of this post, but not 111 pages!

I have 12 years left on my mortgage so was looking at refinancing to a 10 year fixed. I noticed that AimLoan has a lower APR for a 15 year (2.283) than 10 year (2.423); interest rate for both is 2%. Why would the APR for 15 year be less? I thought the shorter the term, the lower the rate. Should I just get a 15 year and pay extra rather than getting a 10 year?
Are the lender fees/credits actually better on the 15 than 10?
CWhea1775
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by CWhea1775 »

Applying with Better.com and trying to get a counter offer to negotiate from Loan Cabin. Applied with Loan Cabin Thursday, August 20th. Have heard nothing back. Emailed to inquire about status of a quote and got this message from Loan Cabin this morning, August 25th;

Hello,

Thank you for your interest in Loan Cabin.

Due to high volume we are experiencing longer than usual turn times. We are working diligently to do our best to get back to all our customers as fast as we can.

As of today, we are reviewing all refinance applications submitted on 07. 30. 2020. All purchase applciations are being reviewed within 24-48 hours.

Thank you for your patience. We are confident this will be worth the wait being Loan Cabin offers the best rates with no lender fees.

We look forward to working with you.
AlD
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by AlD »

Long read, but my experience might be helpful to others who are shopping around for the best deal. I'm also looking for advice.

I presented a Loan estimate from Watermark to Better to see if they could beat it.

Response from Better:
Thanks for sending this over! If this is something we can beat by $100 in costs would you move forward with us today?
I replied if it was better than Watermark's best and final offer, I would proceed with Better.

Response from better:
Fantastic. So our costs will be $1912 vs their cost of $2326. (Section D-J of the loan estimate)

For that cost to be possible I need to confirm that we can waive the appraisal. Can you complete the tasks on your account? This will allow me to run our underwriting system and determine if we can. Once that is determined I will send you out the new estimate.
I complete the tasks on their site except for consenting to the in-person appraisal because I figured it would be waived since my Loan to Value is less than 25%. Thirty minutes later I hear back from my Better Loan Officer:
Good news! We can waive the appraisal! Please complete the remaining tasks on your account. The last task will ask you to pay the appraisal deposit and lock your rate. The $550 will be refunded at closing. I am also attaching the loan estimate. Keep in mind the $550 appraisal will be removed during processing.
I immediately receive a call from someone on the Better team pressuring me to submit the $550 deposit/payment in order to lock and move forward. I mention to him that I would like to receive a revised Loan Estimate that reflects the Appraisal fee of $550 has been removed. He tells me that it will be available on the website after submitting the payment and completing the task to acknowledge "waiving" the appraisal. I submit payment and sign and submit the appraisal waiver. The revised Loan Estimate is nowhere to be found on the website. :thumbsdown

I email the Better loan officer requesting the revised LE and his response:
We will absolutely send that over. Your file needs to be reviewed by an underwriter first. Once it passes the initial underwriting review and they can confirm the appraisal waiver the updated estimate will be sent over.
That's not what the high pressure sales guy that pressed me to submit the $550 deposit told me. I call them to speak with the person who told me it would be available on the website. He ghosts me and instead my assigned Loan Processor calls me back. He says it needs to go through underwriting to be able to remove the $550 Appraisal line item from the Loan Estimate.

This morning I receive an e-mail confirmation from the same loan processor that my loan is conditionally approved. I let him know I submitted some docs they requested and I ask him again to send me the revised LE with the appraisal fee removed (I made no mention of getting reimbursed for the $550 Appraisal Deposit- I just want the revised LE). His response:
I appreciate the update and as for the appraisal credit this will not show until we are final approved just in case the appraisal waiver falls off. Once we are clear to close your initial closing disclosure will reflect your appraisal credit and our closing team will refund you appraisal once your loan has funded.
Again, I wasn't asking about the appraisal fee refund, I want the revised LE. They seem to be saying they can provide that basically after/near closing. I'm starting to get irritated.

It seems to me the Better team is playing games because they know that other lenders are going to want to see the Appraisal fee on their Loan Estimate waived in order to match Better's terms (which are $414 better than Watermark's). So the $550 is crucial to my having any negotiating power with other lenders.

The Loan Officer at Watermark said he CAN beat Better's terms, but he will need the LE from Better to have the $550 appraisal fee removed in order to factor that in to their best and final Loan Estimate. When I told the Watermark Loan Officer that I was having a tough time getting the revised LE from Better, but that I'm hoping to have that to him ASAP, his response was:
I will withdraw your application since you are not committed in moving forward with us. I wish you the best of luck.
What?! That caught me off guard, but I told him I would try to have it ASAP and to not cancel my application.

Question: How hard should I press Better for the revised Loan Estimate? Should I give them an ultimatum? At this point, they have the best terms as long as they stay true to their word that the appraisal will be waived. I don't want to risk them canceling my application. Can they even do that since I'm locked and have provided them with everything they have asked for (even a $550 deposit/payment for an appraisal that is supposedly not even needed)?

Much like my first experience refinancing, I feel like I'm dealing with sleazy used car salesmen. Not happy with either Watermark or Better.

Amerisave (the lender I used for my first refinance several years ago) was actually hit with a class action lawsuit for bait and switch tactics and I got a piddly settlement that was a few hundred dollars shy of what they screwed me out of in the final stages of the process. I'm wondering if we are heading down the same path here?

FWIW, here are the terms (15 year fixed; Loan Amount: $125,900; Rate: 2.375%)

Watermark:
A: $1,499
B: $29
C: $955
A+B+C = $2,483 minus lender credit of $157 = $2,326

Better:
A: $938
B: $614 (Including the $550 appraisal fee which they said via e-mail will be waived)
C: $910
A+B+C = $2,462 (No lender credit, but will drop down to $1,912 if appraisal is actually waived)
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gas_balloon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gas_balloon »

Owning.com updated their site today with separate numbers for Rate and APR. This is surprising, I guess they're no longer doing zero-cost loan adverts.
leviathan
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by leviathan »

AlD wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:17 pm FWIW, here are the terms (15 year fixed; Loan Amount: $125,900; Rate: 2.375%)

Watermark:
A: $1,499
B: $29
C: $955
A+B+C = $2,483 minus lender credit of $157 = $2,326

Better:
A: $938
B: $614 (Including the $550 appraisal fee which they said via e-mail will be waived)
C: $910
A+B+C = $2,462 (No lender credit, but will drop down to $1,912 if appraisal is actually waived)
It seems like that you have a good chance to get the appraisal fee waived.
But maybe you can ask again Better whether they can give you $150 extra credit because of the uncertainty of appraisal.
Or if you have Amex card, the appraisal fee could be covered if there is appraisal.
kappat
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kappat »

The Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fee has been delayed until Dec 1, 2020.

https://www.fhfa.gov/Media/PublicAffair ... ber-1.aspx
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

kappat wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:00 pm The Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fee has been delayed until Dec 1, 2020.

https://www.fhfa.gov/Media/PublicAffair ... ber-1.aspx
WOW! Game changer!
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:35 pm
kappat wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:00 pm The Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fee has been delayed until Dec 1, 2020.

https://www.fhfa.gov/Media/PublicAffair ... ber-1.aspx
WOW! Game changer!
This is a much better thought out rollout of it. Now of course, I just got my loan balance up, so if I end up doing a fourth refi, I now need to bring my balance down to $125k!!
Shikoku
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Shikoku »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:38 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:35 pm
kappat wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:00 pm The Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fee has been delayed until Dec 1, 2020.

https://www.fhfa.gov/Media/PublicAffair ... ber-1.aspx
WOW! Game changer!
This is a much better thought out rollout of it. Now of course, I just got my loan balance up, so if I end up doing a fourth refi, I now need to bring my balance down to $125k!!
If I understand the announcement correctly, you do not need to bring the balance down if you lock before December 1st.
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett
WhyRWeHere
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WhyRWeHere »

kappat wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:00 pm The Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fee has been delayed until Dec 1, 2020.

https://www.fhfa.gov/Media/PublicAffair ... ber-1.aspx
So how does this affect the people that locked last week that included (I'm assuming) this fee? My relative locked last week. I'm curious as to if they have any way to get their costs down now.
Shikoku
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Location: USA

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Shikoku »

WhyRWeHere wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:54 pm
kappat wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:00 pm The Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fee has been delayed until Dec 1, 2020.

https://www.fhfa.gov/Media/PublicAffair ... ber-1.aspx
So how does this affect the people that locked last week that included (I'm assuming) this fee? My relative locked last week. I'm curious as to if they have any way to get their costs down now.
A assume most of the lenders will not immediately negate this whole 0.5% extra unseen costs that they have added to the loan. We might see little bit improved rate or cost from tomorrow. In my understanding, your relative will probably not get their costs down by simply asking the lender. If it was me, I would shop again to get a better LE and ask the lender to match. What do you have to lose? If they do not match, lock with the new lender with better LE. It is business!!
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett
jjhk121
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jjhk121 »

Rates had inched up in the days before the fee announcement anyways. I don't think this new announcement will affect much.
newbiead
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbiead »

gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:33 pm Owning.com updated their site today with separate numbers for Rate and APR. This is surprising, I guess they're no longer doing zero-cost loan adverts.
Looks like they are!?
From Owning : https://owning.com/disclosure

Closing Costs

Owning will pay the following third party closing costs on behalf of the Borrower: appraisal fees, credit report fees, flood certification fees, escrow/closing fees, signing fees, title insurance fees (lenders policy and endorsements). The Borrower is responsible for paying: prepaid interest, property taxes, state mortgage/transfer taxes, all types of insurance, existing lender payoff fees, survey fees, inspection fees and discount points. Minimum loan amount is $350,000.
WhyRWeHere
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WhyRWeHere »

Shikoku wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:15 pm
WhyRWeHere wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:54 pm
kappat wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:00 pm The Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fee has been delayed until Dec 1, 2020.

https://www.fhfa.gov/Media/PublicAffair ... ber-1.aspx
So how does this affect the people that locked last week that included (I'm assuming) this fee? My relative locked last week. I'm curious as to if they have any way to get their costs down now.
A assume most of the lenders will not immediately negate this whole 0.5% extra unseen costs that they have added to the loan. We might see little bit improved rate or cost from tomorrow. In my understanding, your relative will probably not get their costs down by simply asking the lender. If it was me, I would shop again to get a better LE and ask the lender to match. What do you have to lose? If they do not match, lock with the new lender with better LE. It is business!!
Before my relative locked, I told her to shop around even though she got a good rate. She could have done better with getting the costs down. She claims that the loan officer "is so nice", and when she locked, he said he would see what he could do about lender credits as it gets closer to the closing date. :oops: She's not going to want to shop at this point because she believes the loan officer is looking out for her best interests!
bgh11
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

WhyRWeHere wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:29 pm
Shikoku wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:15 pm
WhyRWeHere wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:54 pm
kappat wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:00 pm The Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fee has been delayed until Dec 1, 2020.

https://www.fhfa.gov/Media/PublicAffair ... ber-1.aspx
So how does this affect the people that locked last week that included (I'm assuming) this fee? My relative locked last week. I'm curious as to if they have any way to get their costs down now.
A assume most of the lenders will not immediately negate this whole 0.5% extra unseen costs that they have added to the loan. We might see little bit improved rate or cost from tomorrow. In my understanding, your relative will probably not get their costs down by simply asking the lender. If it was me, I would shop again to get a better LE and ask the lender to match. What do you have to lose? If they do not match, lock with the new lender with better LE. It is business!!
Before my relative locked, I told her to shop around even though she got a good rate. She could have done better with getting the costs down. She claims that the loan officer "is so nice", and when she locked, he said he would see what he could do about lender credits as it gets closer to the closing date. :oops: She's not going to want to shop at this point because she believes the loan officer is looking out for her best interests!
Then don't waste your time too. She will only complain about you if anything goes wrong with the new cheaper lender or if they are closing slower than her expectation. Some like to dine at super fancy venues for services, decors; some care more for the overall value , etc...
WhyRWeHere
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WhyRWeHere »

bgh11 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:43 pm
WhyRWeHere wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:29 pm
Shikoku wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:15 pm
WhyRWeHere wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:54 pm
kappat wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:00 pm The Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fee has been delayed until Dec 1, 2020.

https://www.fhfa.gov/Media/PublicAffair ... ber-1.aspx
So how does this affect the people that locked last week that included (I'm assuming) this fee? My relative locked last week. I'm curious as to if they have any way to get their costs down now.
A assume most of the lenders will not immediately negate this whole 0.5% extra unseen costs that they have added to the loan. We might see little bit improved rate or cost from tomorrow. In my understanding, your relative will probably not get their costs down by simply asking the lender. If it was me, I would shop again to get a better LE and ask the lender to match. What do you have to lose? If they do not match, lock with the new lender with better LE. It is business!!
Before my relative locked, I told her to shop around even though she got a good rate. She could have done better with getting the costs down. She claims that the loan officer "is so nice", and when she locked, he said he would see what he could do about lender credits as it gets closer to the closing date. :oops: She's not going to want to shop at this point because she believes the loan officer is looking out for her best interests!
Then don't waste your time too. She will only complain about you if anything goes wrong with the new cheaper lender or if they are closing slower than her expectation. Some like to dine at super fancy venues for services, decors; some care more for the overall value , etc...
I agree :thumbsup
AlD
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by AlD »

leviathan wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:48 pm
AlD wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:17 pm FWIW, here are the terms (15 year fixed; Loan Amount: $125,900; Rate: 2.375%)

Watermark:
A: $1,499
B: $29
C: $955
A+B+C = $2,483 minus lender credit of $157 = $2,326

Better:
A: $938
B: $614 (Including the $550 appraisal fee which they said via e-mail will be waived)
C: $910
A+B+C = $2,462 (No lender credit, but will drop down to $1,912 if appraisal is actually waived)
It seems like that you have a good chance to get the appraisal fee waived.
But maybe you can ask again Better whether they can give you $150 extra credit because of the uncertainty of appraisal.
Or if you have Amex card, the appraisal fee could be covered if there is appraisal.
I agree, I think there's good odds that the appraisal fee will be waived. I sure hope so, since the Loan Officer plainly stated that it would be waived in an email.

Good suggestion on trying to get an extra $150 credit since they're not willing to cement the appraisal waiver on the Loan Estimate.

But my contention is that they should provide me with the revised Loan Estimate reflecting the waiver of the appraisal, so that I could go back to Watermark and give them one opportunity to win my business. Since Better is not providing me with an updated Loan Estimate, I'm not able to do that. I would think they should be legally required to provide me with the new LE since the $550 appraisal changes their fees by over 25%.
Last edited by AlD on Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gas_balloon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gas_balloon »

newbiead wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:28 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:33 pm Owning.com updated their site today with separate numbers for Rate and APR. This is surprising, I guess they're no longer doing zero-cost loan adverts.
Looks like they are!?
From Owning : https://owning.com/disclosure

Closing Costs

Owning will pay the following third party closing costs on behalf of the Borrower: appraisal fees, credit report fees, flood certification fees, escrow/closing fees, signing fees, title insurance fees (lenders policy and endorsements). The Borrower is responsible for paying: prepaid interest, property taxes, state mortgage/transfer taxes, all types of insurance, existing lender payoff fees, survey fees, inspection fees and discount points. Minimum loan amount is $350,000.
"state mortgage/transfer taxes" - this is typically covered in no-cost loans. The fact that rate and APR are different usually means that it is not no-cost.
newbiead
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbiead »

gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:16 pm
newbiead wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:28 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:33 pm Owning.com updated their site today with separate numbers for Rate and APR. This is surprising, I guess they're no longer doing zero-cost loan adverts.
Looks like they are!?
From Owning : https://owning.com/disclosure

Closing Costs

Owning will pay the following third party closing costs on behalf of the Borrower: appraisal fees, credit report fees, flood certification fees, escrow/closing fees, signing fees, title insurance fees (lenders policy and endorsements). The Borrower is responsible for paying: prepaid interest, property taxes, state mortgage/transfer taxes, all types of insurance, existing lender payoff fees, survey fees, inspection fees and discount points. Minimum loan amount is $350,000.
"state mortgage/transfer taxes" - this is typically covered in no-cost loans. The fact that rate and APR are different usually means that it is not no-cost.
I am currently in process of a refi with LenderFi and didnt see this anywhere on the LE. Is "state mortgage/transfer taxes" listed there if there is one?
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gas_balloon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gas_balloon »

newbiead wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:28 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:16 pm
newbiead wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:28 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:33 pm Owning.com updated their site today with separate numbers for Rate and APR. This is surprising, I guess they're no longer doing zero-cost loan adverts.
Looks like they are!?
From Owning : https://owning.com/disclosure

Closing Costs

Owning will pay the following third party closing costs on behalf of the Borrower: appraisal fees, credit report fees, flood certification fees, escrow/closing fees, signing fees, title insurance fees (lenders policy and endorsements). The Borrower is responsible for paying: prepaid interest, property taxes, state mortgage/transfer taxes, all types of insurance, existing lender payoff fees, survey fees, inspection fees and discount points. Minimum loan amount is $350,000.
"state mortgage/transfer taxes" - this is typically covered in no-cost loans. The fact that rate and APR are different usually means that it is not no-cost.
I am currently in process of a refi with LenderFi and didnt see this anywhere on the LE. Is "state mortgage/transfer taxes" listed there if there is one?
I think section E, if I understand correctly, is that (government recording fees).
(p.s. not 100% sure.. lenders use different words and language that mean the same thing - it often confuses me. I guess that is by design!)
Shikoku
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Shikoku »

newbiead wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:28 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:16 pm
newbiead wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:28 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:33 pm Owning.com updated their site today with separate numbers for Rate and APR. This is surprising, I guess they're no longer doing zero-cost loan adverts.
Looks like they are!?
From Owning : https://owning.com/disclosure

Closing Costs

Owning will pay the following third party closing costs on behalf of the Borrower: appraisal fees, credit report fees, flood certification fees, escrow/closing fees, signing fees, title insurance fees (lenders policy and endorsements). The Borrower is responsible for paying: prepaid interest, property taxes, state mortgage/transfer taxes, all types of insurance, existing lender payoff fees, survey fees, inspection fees and discount points. Minimum loan amount is $350,000.
"state mortgage/transfer taxes" - this is typically covered in no-cost loans. The fact that rate and APR are different usually means that it is not no-cost.
I am currently in process of a refi with LenderFi and didnt see this anywhere on the LE. Is "state mortgage/transfer taxes" listed there if there is one?
The meaning of "no-cost loan" is very ambiguous. When I had negotiated no-cost loan, I told them that I will pay only prepaid items and balance due to my then lender. Everything else to be new lender's responsibility. So you will have to push to get it covered.
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett
bgh11
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

Shikoku wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:04 pm
newbiead wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:28 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:16 pm
newbiead wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:28 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:33 pm Owning.com updated their site today with separate numbers for Rate and APR. This is surprising, I guess they're no longer doing zero-cost loan adverts.
Looks like they are!?
From Owning : https://owning.com/disclosure

Closing Costs

Owning will pay the following third party closing costs on behalf of the Borrower: appraisal fees, credit report fees, flood certification fees, escrow/closing fees, signing fees, title insurance fees (lenders policy and endorsements). The Borrower is responsible for paying: prepaid interest, property taxes, state mortgage/transfer taxes, all types of insurance, existing lender payoff fees, survey fees, inspection fees and discount points. Minimum loan amount is $350,000.
"state mortgage/transfer taxes" - this is typically covered in no-cost loans. The fact that rate and APR are different usually means that it is not no-cost.
I am currently in process of a refi with LenderFi and didnt see this anywhere on the LE. Is "state mortgage/transfer taxes" listed there if there is one?
The meaning of "no-cost loan" is very ambiguous. When I had negotiated no-cost loan, I told them that I will pay only prepaid items and balance due to my then lender. Everything else to be new lender's responsibility. So you will have to push to get it covered.
some lenders will say you don't need to bring any money to close, they will roll all the gigantic costs into the loan. How convenient?!
e5116
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by e5116 »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:35 pm
kappat wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:00 pm The Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fee has been delayed until Dec 1, 2020.

https://www.fhfa.gov/Media/PublicAffair ... ber-1.aspx
WOW! Game changer!
Thanks for linking. Note that the December 1 date is when it gets DELIVERED to the FHA. Not the closing date. So, those looking to refinance, have about a month left to intitiate the process. Loans closed in mid-November may not get there in time. I'm not sure how servicers will deal with the uncertainty of the timing.
thawing
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by thawing »

Another data point for you here. Thanks for info from others on this thread.

Signed with Watermark today (8/25)
State: MN. Conventional 30 year.
Submitted application initially on 7/25. Around that time Lenderfi was offering me 3.125% no cost, Loan Depot 3.3% no cost
WM: 2.75%, 3k credits and A+B+C+E: 3300
rsilver41
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by rsilver41 »

Closing tomorrow on a 30 year at 2.75% with provident lending. Overall, pretty easy to work with. Only costing me $77 dollars out of pocket. I feel good about the terms as finding good refi rates in Texas has been challenging.
InvestDoc
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestDoc »

spbos wrote: Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:54 pm I am currently locked for a 30 year 2.5% confirming loan (my second refinancing). I submitted all my documents about two and a half weeks ago. I just checked, and they are saying that it may take them four more weeks for closing – about 7 weeks from application to closing.

The last refinance took me less than four weeks. I am a bit worried. The interest rates have gone up. Are they deliberately delaying to go beyond the rate lock (it expires on Sep 25) and will then ask me to close at a higher rate? Is it legal? Thanks.
I'm in the same situation as you but with a 2.625% rate. I applied first week or so of August and have a rate lock that ends on 9/25. They just told me I entered the processing phase 10 days after submitting all my documents, and told me they're now working on employment verification and title work. I have an appraisal waiver which will help the timing, but my rate lock expires on 9/25 and I'd be surprised if it closes before then based on what I was told when I applied as well as another acquaintance's experience with this lender.
newbiead
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbiead »

Can somebody please explain how does this work. My final loan closing doc says loan amount of 700K. But my outstanding principal is only 697K. I thought they would re adjust the amount towards end of the closing now. Should I point this out to my new lender or will I somehow get the difference back from who?
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pianos101
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pianos101 »

newbiead wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:47 pm Can somebody please explain how does this work. My final loan closing doc says loan amount of 700K. But my outstanding principal is only 697K. I thought they would re adjust the amount towards end of the closing now. Should I point this out to my new lender or will I somehow get the difference back from who?
What day is their closing estimate? Remember that you not only have to prepay interest, but you also have to pay your current lender interest that they are owed (mortgages are post-paid).

For example, if your funding date is the 15th, you still need to pay your current lender interest for the 1st through the 15th, which would be listed in your pay-off amount (separate from the prepaid interest you owe your current lender for the 15th-30th).

Does that explain your discrepancy?
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

e5116 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:54 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:35 pm
kappat wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:00 pm The Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fee has been delayed until Dec 1, 2020.

https://www.fhfa.gov/Media/PublicAffair ... ber-1.aspx
WOW! Game changer!
Thanks for linking. Note that the December 1 date is when it gets DELIVERED to the FHA. Not the closing date. So, those looking to refinance, have about a month left to intitiate the process. Loans closed in mid-November may not get there in time. I'm not sure how servicers will deal with the uncertainty of the timing.
I bet no one lowers their rates. It just means they now will not lose money on loans locked before the fee was announced but won't close before September.
newbiead
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbiead »

pianos101 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:51 pm
newbiead wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:47 pm Can somebody please explain how does this work. My final loan closing doc says loan amount of 700K. But my outstanding principal is only 697K. I thought they would re adjust the amount towards end of the closing now. Should I point this out to my new lender or will I somehow get the difference back from who?
What day is their closing estimate? Remember that you not only have to prepay interest, but you also have to pay your current lender interest that they are owed (mortgages are post-paid).

For example, if your funding date is the 15th, you still need to pay your current lender interest for the 1st through the 15th, which would be listed in your pay-off amount (separate from the prepaid interest you owe your current lender for the 15th-30th).

Does that explain your discrepancy?
Ah gotcha! That does bring the amount close to 699400. But there is still about $600 difference. I am trying to get a payoff statement generated from my current lender but their system is down at the moment. So, just in case the amount does not match exactly, is it a problem that the new closing disclosure need to be fixed or will the amount be refunded by my current lender? (Assuming my new lender pays that extra amount to my current lender)
jaybee9
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jaybee9 »

reastman wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:58 am
MathMaster wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:04 am
bgh11 wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:18 pm Have anyone tried Navy FCU? Not that I am a member but just curious.
15 Year 2.000% rate 0.500 pt 2.212% APR
I considered Navy Federal in the past, but then read the fine print which apply to the rate you mentioned: "Rates quoted above require a 1.00% loan origination fee. The origination fee may be waived for a 0.25% increase in the interest rate. Rates displayed are the as low as rates for purchase loans and refinances of existing Navy Federal loans. Rates for refinance loans where the existing lender is not Navy Federal are subject to a 0.750% higher rate."
Hi Mathmaster,

Both myself and another worked with NFCU and it was the worst experience I have ever had. So much that I closed my account after the ordeal. 6 months into the refi, after cost of appraisal, they decided they would not lend. Sense my husband was working in Denver at the time said he was not occupying the home as a primary resident.

For a friend of ours, 5 months in NFCU decided not to lend because they determined they didnt want to count all of his income.

I would not walk away from them, I would run.

Hope that helps
Roberta
When I was looking to refinance back in February, I talked to Navy Federal. The person I spoke with said their average time to close was 75 days. I would suppose it is even longer now. I ended up going with AimLoan and closed in less than a month.
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