Refinance Mega Thread

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GoodOmens
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Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:54 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by GoodOmens »

Goal33 wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:05 pm LenderFi loan:

My processor told me they submitted me to underwriting yesterday and I should hear back on Friday... I do plan to go to the mountains from Friday afternoon to Sunday afternoon, where I have internet but no cell reception. Just curious if I should cancel my weekend getaway just in case I might be forced to deal with a notary visit while I'm gone, or is a refinance similar to purchasing where they need to give you 3 days to review closing disclosures before you can actually sign? When they schedule the notary visit is that communication all via email?
Looking through my closing info from LenderFi- I had to sign the pre-closing docs 3 days before the notary came to my house. I did this when I scheduled my closing, can't remember if I scheduled over the phone - I think I did. I had a choice of when and where they came.
newbie20
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

Goal33 wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:31 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:47 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:39 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:02 pm
Ryzen wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:47 am I think it is a misunderstanding. If they are locked, I don't see what Watermark can do except bully customers into letting the lock expire? Regardless, people who aren't locked are going to pay.

These online lenders run on razor thin margins, they are taking a hit from this for sure.
Agreed. Watermark will pay an extra 0.5% to insure/sell the loan, but it cannot pass that to customers with an active rate lock, unless the rate lock expires. Anyone not locked in has had their offer of X rate for Y points/lender credits adjusted already.
Pure speculation, but the fact that WM is ghosting everyone who supposedly have a rate lock seems extremely suspicious, as if they are trying to delay things long enough for those juicy locked rates to expire...
Perhaps, but this isn’t a new behavior for them. They behaved the same way in May, June, and July.
I'd think everybody is rushing to close faster... by EOM
Sorry if this has already been answered, but does the 0.5% Fannie Mae apply to mortgages that are not sold by the lender? I have currently locked with a bank and my lock expires 9/8. The LE says that they are not planning to sell the loan and will service it themselves. I wonder if I'd be hit with 0.5% if my lock expired before closing?
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pianos101
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pianos101 »

newbie20 wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:51 pm
Goal33 wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:31 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:47 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:39 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:02 pm

Agreed. Watermark will pay an extra 0.5% to insure/sell the loan, but it cannot pass that to customers with an active rate lock, unless the rate lock expires. Anyone not locked in has had their offer of X rate for Y points/lender credits adjusted already.
Pure speculation, but the fact that WM is ghosting everyone who supposedly have a rate lock seems extremely suspicious, as if they are trying to delay things long enough for those juicy locked rates to expire...
Perhaps, but this isn’t a new behavior for them. They behaved the same way in May, June, and July.
I'd think everybody is rushing to close faster... by EOM
Sorry if this has already been answered, but does the 0.5% Fannie Mae apply to mortgages that are not sold by the lender? I have currently locked with a bank and my lock expires 9/8. The LE says that they are not planning to sell the loan and will service it themselves. I wonder if I'd be hit with 0.5% if my lock expired before closing?
If you are locked it doesn't matter, they can't add it.

But no, fundamentally it only applies when the lender sells the loan to FM.
drk
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Location: Seattle

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drk »

newbie20 wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:51 pm Sorry if this has already been answered, but does the 0.5% Fannie Mae apply to mortgages that are not sold by the lender? I have currently locked with a bank and my lock expires 9/8. The LE says that they are not planning to sell the loan and will service it themselves. I wonder if I'd be hit with 0.5% if my lock expired before closing?
Holding the loan (i.e. not selling it) and servicing it are two separate things, FYI. If you have a conforming mortgage, it will almost certainly be sold to one of the GSEs.
m7a8a6
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by m7a8a6 »

Just a follow-up update on my previous posts...

So it looks like it won't be possible to get a no-cost at 2.5%+ anymore.

Even at 3.0%, there are no lender credits from the initial offers .

At this time, I have initial estimates I got from each lender's websites by plugging in initial information (more or less fairly similar from lender to lender (A+B+C+E)). Only spoke to a couple of lenders but they all stood by what was online.

Is the next viable step to just choose one and go for it? Or apply with all and then negotiate further?
wootwoot
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by wootwoot »

m7a8a6 wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:18 pm Just a follow-up update on my previous posts...

So it looks like it won't be possible to get a no-cost at 2.5%+ anymore.

Even at 3.0%, there are no lender credits from the initial offers .

At this time, I have initial estimates I got from each lender's websites by plugging in initial information (more or less fairly similar from lender to lender (A+B+C+E)). Only spoke to a couple of lenders but they all stood by what was online.

Is the next viable step to just choose one and go for it? Or apply with all and then negotiate further?
If you want the good rates/lender credits you have to negotiate.
keystone
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by keystone »

In case anyone is still waiting on their Watermark application, I thought I'd provide a quick update.

It looks like things are still moving along, I received a request from the loan processor for some additional routine items and my existing mortgage servicer was contacted today for a payoff statement. I also referred a friend to Watermark around the same time and she is in the exact same stage, with her servicer being contacted as well.

So, my confidence has been restored and I am optimistic that we will close on these loans without any significant hiccups. We both locked prior to the 0.5% "adverse market fee" by the way.
need403bhelp
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by need403bhelp »

m7a8a6 wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:18 pm Just a follow-up update on my previous posts...

So it looks like it won't be possible to get a no-cost at 2.5%+ anymore.

Even at 3.0%, there are no lender credits from the initial offers .

At this time, I have initial estimates I got from each lender's websites by plugging in initial information (more or less fairly similar from lender to lender (A+B+C+E)). Only spoke to a couple of lenders but they all stood by what was online.

Is the next viable step to just choose one and go for it? Or apply with all and then negotiate further?
Check LoanCabin, WaterMark, High Tech Lending, C2 Financial Corporation (there are no links for C2, you have to use NMLS consumer access to find their loan agents who are licensed in your state and then find their emails online).

All of these still list much lower rates for me than 3.0% without lender credits. I realize there are many differences with respect to region, loan amount, LTV, etc. My region is not one that has been blessed by the loan gods, though (not Cali).
JSDNJ
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JSDNJ »

When is the appropriate time to bail on a lender?

I have 2 locked LEs. Same rates, but one deal is $300 more expensive. However, this deal has $0 out of pocket and an appraisal waiver, where the other one has me paying for an appraisal (and dealing with it) out of pocket.

I am inclined to go with the slightly higher offer to avoid hassle,risk and out of pocket expense of appraisal, but when should I bail on the other to ensure I don't have an issue with the other one?
Last edited by JSDNJ on Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
akpk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by akpk »

I refinanced with better.com and closed around mid-July. Today I got a letter saying that my loan has been sold to "Fannie Mae".
1. Do they (better) sell the servicing also to some bank or I will remain with TMS.
2. Can loan be sold again or it will remain with Fannie Mae until I refinance.
3of10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

m7a8a6 wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:18 pm Just a follow-up update on my previous posts...

So it looks like it won't be possible to get a no-cost at 2.5%+ anymore.

Even at 3.0%, there are no lender credits from the initial offers .

At this time, I have initial estimates I got from each lender's websites by plugging in initial information (more or less fairly similar from lender to lender (A+B+C+E)). Only spoke to a couple of lenders but they all stood by what was online.

Is the next viable step to just choose one and go for it? Or apply with all and then negotiate further?
You have a credit score 800+ and a LTV of 63%. If you look at the Fannie Mae matrix as noted by "Ryzen" below, there will be a .25% fee on the loan. If you factor in the adverse .5% fee for all loans closed after Sept 1, it looks like you have a Fannie Mae fee of .75% (not interest rate addition) to start off with. This will make it more difficult to everyone now starting a refi in getting the best rates. Also, your $250K loan might not be high enough for some lenders.

It doesn't mean that you won't be able to get a rate below 3%, just explaining that it isn't as easy as those who had earlier done a refi. Also, lenders such as Better and LD are best used when presenting them with a good LE from another lender, which they might beat. That could be one way of going below 3%.
Ryzen wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:32 am The LLPA matrix I posted before has been updated with a new page for the "Adverse Market Refinance Fee"

https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/media/9391/display

Note that you won't see anything like a .5% "fee" listed anywhere on a Loan Estimate or any documents you see. This will be rolled into the interest rate or credits offered.
JSDNJ
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JSDNJ »

3of10 wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:49 pm
m7a8a6 wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:18 pm Just a follow-up update on my previous posts...

So it looks like it won't be possible to get a no-cost at 2.5%+ anymore.

Even at 3.0%, there are no lender credits from the initial offers .

At this time, I have initial estimates I got from each lender's websites by plugging in initial information (more or less fairly similar from lender to lender (A+B+C+E)). Only spoke to a couple of lenders but they all stood by what was online.

Is the next viable step to just choose one and go for it? Or apply with all and then negotiate further?
You have a credit score 800+ and a LTV of 63%. If you look at the Fannie Mae matrix as noted by "Ryzen" below, there will be a .25% fee on the loan. If you factor in the adverse .5% fee for all loans closed after Sept 1, it looks like you have a Fannie Mae fee of .75% (not interest rate addition) to start off with. This will make it more difficult to everyone now starting a refi in getting the best rates. Also, your $250K loan might not be high enough for some lenders.

It doesn't mean that you won't be able to get a rate below 3%, just explaining that it isn't as easy as those who had earlier done a refi. Also, lenders such as Better and LD are best used when presenting them with a good LE from another lender, which they might beat. That could be one way of going below 3%.
Ryzen wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:32 am The LLPA matrix I posted before has been updated with a new page for the "Adverse Market Refinance Fee"

https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/media/9391/display

Note that you won't see anything like a .5% "fee" listed anywhere on a Loan Estimate or any documents you see. This will be rolled into the interest rate or credits offered.

What about those of us who locked prior to the fee but won’t close until after 9/1?
Ryzen
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Ryzen »

JSDNJ wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:55 pm
3of10 wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:49 pm
m7a8a6 wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:18 pm Just a follow-up update on my previous posts...

So it looks like it won't be possible to get a no-cost at 2.5%+ anymore.

Even at 3.0%, there are no lender credits from the initial offers .

At this time, I have initial estimates I got from each lender's websites by plugging in initial information (more or less fairly similar from lender to lender (A+B+C+E)). Only spoke to a couple of lenders but they all stood by what was online.

Is the next viable step to just choose one and go for it? Or apply with all and then negotiate further?
You have a credit score 800+ and a LTV of 63%. If you look at the Fannie Mae matrix as noted by "Ryzen" below, there will be a .25% fee on the loan. If you factor in the adverse .5% fee for all loans closed after Sept 1, it looks like you have a Fannie Mae fee of .75% (not interest rate addition) to start off with. This will make it more difficult to everyone now starting a refi in getting the best rates. Also, your $250K loan might not be high enough for some lenders.

It doesn't mean that you won't be able to get a rate below 3%, just explaining that it isn't as easy as those who had earlier done a refi. Also, lenders such as Better and LD are best used when presenting them with a good LE from another lender, which they might beat. That could be one way of going below 3%.
Ryzen wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:32 am The LLPA matrix I posted before has been updated with a new page for the "Adverse Market Refinance Fee"

https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/media/9391/display

Note that you won't see anything like a .5% "fee" listed anywhere on a Loan Estimate or any documents you see. This will be rolled into the interest rate or credits offered.

What about those of us who locked prior to the fee but won’t close until after 9/1?
If you locked you won't see a change, but your lender is eating the .5% fee that applies to any loan they sell to the GSE's after 9/1. If you aren't locked, you're paying it.
3of10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

Ryzen wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:23 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:55 pm
3of10 wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:49 pm
m7a8a6 wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:18 pm Just a follow-up update on my previous posts...

So it looks like it won't be possible to get a no-cost at 2.5%+ anymore.

Even at 3.0%, there are no lender credits from the initial offers .

At this time, I have initial estimates I got from each lender's websites by plugging in initial information (more or less fairly similar from lender to lender (A+B+C+E)). Only spoke to a couple of lenders but they all stood by what was online.

Is the next viable step to just choose one and go for it? Or apply with all and then negotiate further?
You have a credit score 800+ and a LTV of 63%. If you look at the Fannie Mae matrix as noted by "Ryzen" below, there will be a .25% fee on the loan. If you factor in the adverse .5% fee for all loans closed after Sept 1, it looks like you have a Fannie Mae fee of .75% (not interest rate addition) to start off with. This will make it more difficult to everyone now starting a refi in getting the best rates. Also, your $250K loan might not be high enough for some lenders.

It doesn't mean that you won't be able to get a rate below 3%, just explaining that it isn't as easy as those who had earlier done a refi. Also, lenders such as Better and LD are best used when presenting them with a good LE from another lender, which they might beat. That could be one way of going below 3%.
Ryzen wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:32 am The LLPA matrix I posted before has been updated with a new page for the "Adverse Market Refinance Fee"

https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/media/9391/display

Note that you won't see anything like a .5% "fee" listed anywhere on a Loan Estimate or any documents you see. This will be rolled into the interest rate or credits offered.

What about those of us who locked prior to the fee but won’t close until after 9/1?
If you locked you won't see a change, but your lender is eating the .5% fee that applies to any loan they sell to the GSE's after 9/1. If you aren't locked, you're paying it.
What's surprising is that I don't see the urgency in some of these lenders rushing to get the loans closed before 9/1. I talked to one loan officer yesterday and he said that he was unaware of the adverse .5% fee.

You would think that they would have the underwriters working non-stop to get the loans closed, but they're acting like it's no big deal (as far as eating the .5%).
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

3of10 wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:31 pm
Ryzen wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:23 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:55 pm
3of10 wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:49 pm
m7a8a6 wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:18 pm Just a follow-up update on my previous posts...

So it looks like it won't be possible to get a no-cost at 2.5%+ anymore.

Even at 3.0%, there are no lender credits from the initial offers .

At this time, I have initial estimates I got from each lender's websites by plugging in initial information (more or less fairly similar from lender to lender (A+B+C+E)). Only spoke to a couple of lenders but they all stood by what was online.

Is the next viable step to just choose one and go for it? Or apply with all and then negotiate further?
You have a credit score 800+ and a LTV of 63%. If you look at the Fannie Mae matrix as noted by "Ryzen" below, there will be a .25% fee on the loan. If you factor in the adverse .5% fee for all loans closed after Sept 1, it looks like you have a Fannie Mae fee of .75% (not interest rate addition) to start off with. This will make it more difficult to everyone now starting a refi in getting the best rates. Also, your $250K loan might not be high enough for some lenders.

It doesn't mean that you won't be able to get a rate below 3%, just explaining that it isn't as easy as those who had earlier done a refi. Also, lenders such as Better and LD are best used when presenting them with a good LE from another lender, which they might beat. That could be one way of going below 3%.
Ryzen wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:32 am The LLPA matrix I posted before has been updated with a new page for the "Adverse Market Refinance Fee"

https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/media/9391/display

Note that you won't see anything like a .5% "fee" listed anywhere on a Loan Estimate or any documents you see. This will be rolled into the interest rate or credits offered.

What about those of us who locked prior to the fee but won’t close until after 9/1?
If you locked you won't see a change, but your lender is eating the .5% fee that applies to any loan they sell to the GSE's after 9/1. If you aren't locked, you're paying it.
What's surprising is that I don't see the urgency in some of these lenders rushing to get the loans closed before 9/1. I talked to one loan officer yesterday and he said that he was unaware of the adverse .5% fee.

You would think that they would have the underwriters working non-stop to get the loans closed, but they're acting like it's no big deal (as far as eating the .5%).
I assumed the same. I don’t get it.
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NORDO
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by NORDO »

We're in the home stretch with Better on our refi - no cash out, just a new loan for the payoff amount on the existing mortgage. Here's the full play-by-play for anyone following along.

Final loan amount = 30 yr fixed, 2.50%, $265K, 76% LTV, no escrow

Jul 7 - applied with Better
Jul 24 - applied with Loan Cabin
Jul 30 - received LE from Loan Cabin after pestering them with multiple emails | A+B+C of $2200, $1000 lender credit = net cost $1200
Jul 30 - sent our current local lender the Loan Cabin draft LE, which they beat | A+B+C of $750, no lender credit = net cost $750
Jul 30 - sent Better competing LE from local lender | Concierge said best they could do is A+B+C of $3000, no lender credit = net cost $3000
Jul 31 - locked with Better, 2.50% at ~$7K in total costs in my rate table
Aug 1 - sent Better same competing LE | Loan Processor matched, A+B+C of $1100, $370 lender credit = net cost $730
Aug 7 - talked to local lender and informed them of Better promo, they offered no-cost | A+B+C of $250, $400 lender credit = net cost ($150)
Aug 7 - sent Better new competing LE from local lender | Loan Processor beat, A+B+C of $1100, $1475 lender credit = net cost ($375)
Aug 18 - Better issued Closing Disclosure | A+B+C of $1100, $1640 lender credit = net cost ($540)
Aug 19 - received task to enter AMEX card info for $2500 credit


So the final amounts as listed on the CD are:

Origination / A = $0
Title Services / B = $1100
Services / C = $0

Recording Fees / E = $200
Prepaids / F = $110
Escrow / G = none
Other / H = $0

Total closing costs = $1410
Lender credit = ($1640)

Cash to Close = ($230)


I certainly can't complain. The process required attention to detail and a bit of back and forth to pit the lenders against each other, but that small time investment was worth it. Expect to close next week and will report back when everything is finalized.
Last edited by NORDO on Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

NORDO wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:12 pm ...
Aug 18 - Better issued Closing Disclosure | A+B+C of $1100, $1640 lender credit = net cost ($540)
...
I certainly can't complain. The process required attention to detail and a bit of back and forth to pit the lenders against each other, but that small time investment was worth it. Expect to close next week and will report back when everything is finalized.
Congrats and great job!
lowcost
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Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:08 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by lowcost »

7/18 Locked LE w/Better. Got them to reduce the rate twice using other LEs.
8/19 Signed Closure Docs w/Notary
8/24 Funding Date

Loan 2.75%, 20 year, $230K Loan, California. Primary Residence, No Escrow account. LTV 20%. (A+B+C = $1165) and a $210 Lender's Credit.
Qualified for AMEX Rebate $2500 with Better.com.

Overall a smooth and quick process. Loan is being transferred to The Money Source (TMS). I looked them up and found a lot of negative reviews. I hope they are not as horrible as the reviews state.
traveler00
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by traveler00 »

Question about the new Fannie Mae .5% fee.

For clarification, I have not locked in a rate yet. My lender is stating that if I lock-in a rate with him BEFORE September 1st, I can avoid this .5% fee even though my loan would close AFTER September 1st. This is not how I understood how the fee works and seems incorrect?

Rate I received today is 30yr fixed @ 2.625% No points. 380k loan amt.

I've read throughout this forum that the .5% fee is on the back end (built into the quoted interest rate) and is not visible on the Loan Estimates. Are we certain about this?

So is this lender really trying to tell me that they are holding back the .5% fee from the 2.625% rate I was quoted and that if I lock Sept. 1st or after, I'm going to be charged .5% either as a higher interest rate or on the LE?

Right now, I feel like I'm in a rush to lock before Sept. 1st based on what my lender said about avoiding the fee but I'm questioning if this is incorrect.

Very confused. Thanks for your help!
m@ver1ck
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by m@ver1ck »

Goal33 wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:59 am
m@ver1ck wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:13 pm I locked 30yrs at 2.875% on a 200K loan. This from a 2.75%/15yr loan that would mature in 2028.

I’ll probably pay the loan off in a lump sum payment before 2028, but let’s see what the next few years bring.

The key insight was that I’ll never actually own my home free and clear - property taxes + insurance is still 8K a year.
Given your intent why are you wasting your time and money?
If things go really south due to covid I'd rather have a lower monthly payment than a larger one. This reduces monthly payment by half.
I do however expect things to be fine - and oncei have something like 300K in cash saved up, I can pay it off and still have 100K as reserves.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:41 am Question about the new Fannie Mae .5% fee.

For clarification, I have not locked in a rate yet. My lender is stating that if I lock-in a rate with him BEFORE September 1st, I can avoid this .5% fee even though my loan would close AFTER September 1st. This is not how I understood how the fee works and seems incorrect?
S/he is incorrect, but that is not your problem.
traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:41 am Rate I received today is 30yr fixed @ 2.625% No points. 380k loan amt.

I've read throughout this forum that the .5% fee is on the back end (built into the quoted interest rate) and is not visible on the Loan Estimates. Are we certain about this?
100%. That is a great rate, but what are the costs associated with getting it (i.e., what are you Section A costs/J credits)?
Ryzen
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Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:00 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Ryzen »

traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:41 am Question about the new Fannie Mae .5% fee.

For clarification, I have not locked in a rate yet. My lender is stating that if I lock-in a rate with him BEFORE September 1st, I can avoid this .5% fee even though my loan would close AFTER September 1st. This is not how I understood how the fee works and seems incorrect?

Rate I received today is 30yr fixed @ 2.625% No points. 380k loan amt.

I've read throughout this forum that the .5% fee is on the back end (built into the quoted interest rate) and is not visible on the Loan Estimates. Are we certain about this?

So is this lender really trying to tell me that they are holding back the .5% fee from the 2.625% rate I was quoted and that if I lock Sept. 1st or after, I'm going to be charged .5% either as a higher interest rate or on the LE?

Right now, I feel like I'm in a rush to lock before Sept. 1st based on what my lender said about avoiding the fee but I'm questioning if this is incorrect.

Very confused. Thanks for your help!
Your lender is just getting you to try to lock - by you mentioning the fee he sees you are a savvy customer and is trying to reel you in by playing games. This fee will apply to your loan no matter what, because at this point your loan will be sold off after 9/1 and there is no way out of it. Since this is a Loan Level Pricing Adjustment, it only applies to to the transactions between your lender and the GSE they sell the loan to. For the transactions between the customer and lender, they just need to structure the deal in a way that they make a profit when they consider the amount they will receive when they sell the loan off.
MrJedi
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 11:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:41 am Question about the new Fannie Mae .5% fee.

For clarification, I have not locked in a rate yet. My lender is stating that if I lock-in a rate with him BEFORE September 1st, I can avoid this .5% fee even though my loan would close AFTER September 1st. This is not how I understood how the fee works and seems incorrect?

Rate I received today is 30yr fixed @ 2.625% No points. 380k loan amt.

I've read throughout this forum that the .5% fee is on the back end (built into the quoted interest rate) and is not visible on the Loan Estimates. Are we certain about this?

So is this lender really trying to tell me that they are holding back the .5% fee from the 2.625% rate I was quoted and that if I lock Sept. 1st or after, I'm going to be charged .5% either as a higher interest rate or on the LE?

Right now, I feel like I'm in a rush to lock before Sept. 1st based on what my lender said about avoiding the fee but I'm questioning if this is incorrect.

Very confused. Thanks for your help!
The fee is paid by the lender when they sell the loan to FNMA, i.e. it will reduce their commission. You will not directly see the fee. What is probably happening behind the scenes is lenders are not going to pass as many lender credits to you to try and keep their profit margin. This could take the form of a higher rate to you as well. Any newer non-locked loan not expected to close and sell off to FNMA by August 31 likely has this fee baked into the rate or closing costs already.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

lowcost wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:25 am 7/18 Locked LE w/Better. Got them to reduce the rate twice using other LEs.
8/19 Signed Closure Docs w/Notary
8/24 Funding Date

Loan 2.75%, 20 year, $230K Loan, California. Primary Residence, No Escrow account. LTV 20%. (A+B+C = $1165) and a $210 Lender's Credit.
Qualified for AMEX Rebate $2500 with Better.com.

Overall a smooth and quick process. Loan is being transferred to The Money Source (TMS). I looked them up and found a lot of negative reviews. I hope they are not as horrible as the reviews state.
I had TMS as my servicer for about 3 months before I complated another refi last month. They have a decent website and phone app, and the ability to do all the necessesities: schedule online payments, the ability to set up auto pay, online statements. A small sample size, but I had no issues.
nic3456
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

anon_investor wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:35 am
lowcost wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:25 am 7/18 Locked LE w/Better. Got them to reduce the rate twice using other LEs.
8/19 Signed Closure Docs w/Notary
8/24 Funding Date

Loan 2.75%, 20 year, $230K Loan, California. Primary Residence, No Escrow account. LTV 20%. (A+B+C = $1165) and a $210 Lender's Credit.
Qualified for AMEX Rebate $2500 with Better.com.

Overall a smooth and quick process. Loan is being transferred to The Money Source (TMS). I looked them up and found a lot of negative reviews. I hope they are not as horrible as the reviews state.
I had TMS as my servicer for about 3 months before I complated another refi last month. They have a decent website and phone app, and the ability to do all the necessesities: schedule online payments, the ability to set up auto pay, online statements. A small sample size, but I had no issues.

How long after closing did it take until you could view your loan info/setup an account with TMS?
Hoosier CPA
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Hoosier CPA »

anon_investor wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:35 am
lowcost wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:25 am 7/18 Locked LE w/Better. Got them to reduce the rate twice using other LEs.
8/19 Signed Closure Docs w/Notary
8/24 Funding Date

Loan 2.75%, 20 year, $230K Loan, California. Primary Residence, No Escrow account. LTV 20%. (A+B+C = $1165) and a $210 Lender's Credit.
Qualified for AMEX Rebate $2500 with Better.com.

Overall a smooth and quick process. Loan is being transferred to The Money Source (TMS). I looked them up and found a lot of negative reviews. I hope they are not as horrible as the reviews state.
I had TMS as my servicer for about 3 months before I complated another refi last month. They have a decent website and phone app, and the ability to do all the necessesities: schedule online payments, the ability to set up auto pay, online statements. A small sample size, but I had no issues.
That's good to hear. I'm getting close to the finish loan with Better, but I'm concerned about the unknown servicer the loan will end up being sold to.

Locked in a 2.875% 30 year, $218K loan (about 55% LTV), supposed to get back about $800 after lender credits, plus the $2,500 Amex. I'm currently in a 3.0% with a local bank, so I'm really just doing this for the Amex credit. I go back and forth regarding whether it's worth it, but $3,300 is $3,300, right?
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

nic3456 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:47 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:35 am
lowcost wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:25 am 7/18 Locked LE w/Better. Got them to reduce the rate twice using other LEs.
8/19 Signed Closure Docs w/Notary
8/24 Funding Date

Loan 2.75%, 20 year, $230K Loan, California. Primary Residence, No Escrow account. LTV 20%. (A+B+C = $1165) and a $210 Lender's Credit.
Qualified for AMEX Rebate $2500 with Better.com.

Overall a smooth and quick process. Loan is being transferred to The Money Source (TMS). I looked them up and found a lot of negative reviews. I hope they are not as horrible as the reviews state.
I had TMS as my servicer for about 3 months before I complated another refi last month. They have a decent website and phone app, and the ability to do all the necessesities: schedule online payments, the ability to set up auto pay, online statements. A small sample size, but I had no issues.

How long after closing did it take until you could view your loan info/setup an account with TMS?
I about a week after my loan funded I got an email about setting up an account with TMS. I set up an account and it showed my loan balance, but the escrow was unfunded. The escrow was funded about 1-2 days after that. I was not able to set up auto payment until after the loan was sold to Fannie Mae about a week after that, when it was confirmed that Better.com/TMS would remain the servicer, at which time auto payment became an option.
traveler00
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by traveler00 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:39 am
traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:41 am Question about the new Fannie Mae .5% fee.

For clarification, I have not locked in a rate yet. My lender is stating that if I lock-in a rate with him BEFORE September 1st, I can avoid this .5% fee even though my loan would close AFTER September 1st. This is not how I understood how the fee works and seems incorrect?
S/he is incorrect, but that is not your problem.
traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:41 am Rate I received today is 30yr fixed @ 2.625% No points. 380k loan amt.

I've read throughout this forum that the .5% fee is on the back end (built into the quoted interest rate) and is not visible on the Loan Estimates. Are we certain about this?
100%. That is a great rate, but what are the costs associated with getting it (i.e., what are you Section A costs/J credits)?
Section A costs are $0. The lender credit is $360. If there is no urgency to lock-in and proceed, I am willing to consider waiting to see if the rates get better. Thoughts?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:33 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:39 am
traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:41 am Question about the new Fannie Mae .5% fee.

For clarification, I have not locked in a rate yet. My lender is stating that if I lock-in a rate with him BEFORE September 1st, I can avoid this .5% fee even though my loan would close AFTER September 1st. This is not how I understood how the fee works and seems incorrect?
S/he is incorrect, but that is not your problem.
traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:41 am Rate I received today is 30yr fixed @ 2.625% No points. 380k loan amt.

I've read throughout this forum that the .5% fee is on the back end (built into the quoted interest rate) and is not visible on the Loan Estimates. Are we certain about this?
100%. That is a great rate, but what are the costs associated with getting it (i.e., what are you Section A costs/J credits)?
Section A costs are $0. The lender credit is $360. If there is no urgency to lock-in and proceed, I am willing to consider waiting to see if the rates get better. Thoughts?
That is a very strong offer. My general advice is if you find an offer you like, lock it and run with it. My concern is that if you don't lock it, the lender may realize their misunderstanding and that offer will no longer be available to you. This is in addition to how the market moves in general.

That said, the mortgage market has averaged lower each day since Monday, so one would hope you still get at least as good of an offer.


P.S. - If this lender offers loans in NC, please let me know so I can apply with them! :)
traveler00
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by traveler00 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:43 am
traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:33 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:39 am
traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:41 am Question about the new Fannie Mae .5% fee.

For clarification, I have not locked in a rate yet. My lender is stating that if I lock-in a rate with him BEFORE September 1st, I can avoid this .5% fee even though my loan would close AFTER September 1st. This is not how I understood how the fee works and seems incorrect?
S/he is incorrect, but that is not your problem.
traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:41 am Rate I received today is 30yr fixed @ 2.625% No points. 380k loan amt.

I've read throughout this forum that the .5% fee is on the back end (built into the quoted interest rate) and is not visible on the Loan Estimates. Are we certain about this?
100%. That is a great rate, but what are the costs associated with getting it (i.e., what are you Section A costs/J credits)?
Section A costs are $0. The lender credit is $360. If there is no urgency to lock-in and proceed, I am willing to consider waiting to see if the rates get better. Thoughts?
That is a very strong offer. My general advice is if you find an offer you like, lock it and run with it. My concern is that if you don't lock it, the lender may realize their misunderstanding and that offer will no longer be available to you. This is in addition to how the market moves in general.

That said, the mortgage market has averaged lower each day since Monday, so one would hope you still get at least as good of an offer.


P.S. - If this lender offers loans in NC, please let me know so I can apply with them! :)

Thanks for your info. It seems as though 2.5% with no points has been the lowest this forum has reported. This was a couple weeks ago. So this is not much more than that.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

Hoosier CPA wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:57 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:35 am
lowcost wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:25 am 7/18 Locked LE w/Better. Got them to reduce the rate twice using other LEs.
8/19 Signed Closure Docs w/Notary
8/24 Funding Date

Loan 2.75%, 20 year, $230K Loan, California. Primary Residence, No Escrow account. LTV 20%. (A+B+C = $1165) and a $210 Lender's Credit.
Qualified for AMEX Rebate $2500 with Better.com.

Overall a smooth and quick process. Loan is being transferred to The Money Source (TMS). I looked them up and found a lot of negative reviews. I hope they are not as horrible as the reviews state.
I had TMS as my servicer for about 3 months before I complated another refi last month. They have a decent website and phone app, and the ability to do all the necessesities: schedule online payments, the ability to set up auto pay, online statements. A small sample size, but I had no issues.
That's good to hear. I'm getting close to the finish loan with Better, but I'm concerned about the unknown servicer the loan will end up being sold to.

Locked in a 2.875% 30 year, $218K loan (about 55% LTV), supposed to get back about $800 after lender credits, plus the $2,500 Amex. I'm currently in a 3.0% with a local bank, so I'm really just doing this for the Amex credit. I go back and forth regarding whether it's worth it, but $3,300 is $3,300, right?
I believe TMS is the default servicer for Better. I actually did my refi with Ally (which is affiliated with Better). But as soon as I closed 100% of my documentation just said Better on it. My loan was sold to Fannie Mae but Better remained the servicer, but utilized TMS for the actual servicing. I am not sure how TMS and Better are related, but my statements actually have logos for "The Money Source" and "Better.com" on the top.

I was actually pretty happy that TMS had a proper website (2FA) and phone app (allowed for finger print login). I just completed a refi with LenderFi and my loan/servicing has been transfered to Wells Fargo, so soon I can report about how well TMS handles loan payoffs/close outs and return of escrow. So far this is what I have experienced:

-Loan payoff was sent on a Friday, TMS online account reflected the loan as $0 balance the following Monday.
-So far 3 weeks after loan payoff I have received no direct communication from TMS about the loan payoff (whether by mail or email) :annoyed , although in my online account documents I do see a copy of a letter that Better.com sent to my insurance company telling them my loan was paid off and to remove them as "loss payee".
-My escrow balance in my online account continued to show a full balance showing until about 3 weeks after loan payoff, now it shows a $0 balance, hopefully this means I should receive my escrow refund check soon. :?
-All 3 credit bureaus already report my loan as paid off (not sure how long that took as I was not checking daily).

My original loan was with Wells Fargo, which I refinanced with Ally in May (which then basically became a Better.com loan, as discussed above). Wells Fargo was pretty efficient about the loan payoff/close out process. My online account reflected the payoff the same day the funds were wired by Better.com. I received a written letter confirming the payoff a few days later (the letter was dated the day of the payoff). About 2 weeks after that I received my escrow refund check (I was able to see a digital copy in my online account the day the check was sent out). Maybe a week after that I received from a letter from Wells Fargo which included the official stamped lien release from my town. So maybe about 3 weeks total to completely close out the loan. Within a a few weeks of the loan funding all 3 credit bureaus listed my Wells Fargo loan was paid off (it might have been sooner but I was not checking daily).

So far, I have to say that Wells Fargo was faster/better (more communication) at closing out the loan than TMS. But in the end, as long as get in writing my loan was paid off, the official stamped lien release, my escrow refund check, and all 3 credit bureaus report my loan as paid off, I am good.

Next year will be interesting doing my taxes, as I will get documents from: Wells Fargo for my original loan, TMS for my 1st refi, and Wells Fargo for my 2nd refi.
MrJedi
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

Just closed on a refinance today.

Something I'm noticing is that my old loan payoff was estimated for 9/8/2020 and my new loan disbursement is 8/25/2020.

What happens to those 14 days of interest between the funding and the estimated payoff date used in calculating closing costs? Should I expect the old lender to send me the difference after they get paid? Is this normally automatic?
tbone555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tbone555 »

MrJedi wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:35 am Just closed on a refinance today.

Something I'm noticing is that my old loan payoff was estimated for 9/8/2020 and my new loan disbursement is 8/25/2020.

What happens to those 14 days of interest between the funding and the estimated payoff date used in calculating closing costs? Should I expect the old lender to send me the difference after they get paid? Is this normally automatic?

Yes. Your old lender will send you a check for the overage and anther check the the escrow refund.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

tbone555 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:39 am
MrJedi wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:35 am Just closed on a refinance today.

Something I'm noticing is that my old loan payoff was estimated for 9/8/2020 and my new loan disbursement is 8/25/2020.

What happens to those 14 days of interest between the funding and the estimated payoff date used in calculating closing costs? Should I expect the old lender to send me the difference after they get paid? Is this normally automatic?

Yes. Your old lender will send you a check for the overage and anther check the the escrow refund.
Just a slight nit. Depending on the lender, the old one might send just one check with both. When I refi’d away from PenFed, they “deposited” the excess payoff into escrow, then it was included in the escrow refund (which in my case was just the excess as I didn’t have an escrow).

Either way, the old lender returns to the borrower any unused funds they have for the old mortgage.
traveler00
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by traveler00 »

Does anyone know if any of the recommended lenders in this forum are doing cash out loans on investment properties?

FYI, in case you don't already know, Lenderfi's homepage says they are temporarily not accepting new applications due to demand.
3of10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:43 am
traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:33 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:39 am
traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:41 am Question about the new Fannie Mae .5% fee.

For clarification, I have not locked in a rate yet. My lender is stating that if I lock-in a rate with him BEFORE September 1st, I can avoid this .5% fee even though my loan would close AFTER September 1st. This is not how I understood how the fee works and seems incorrect?
S/he is incorrect, but that is not your problem.
traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:41 am Rate I received today is 30yr fixed @ 2.625% No points. 380k loan amt.

I've read throughout this forum that the .5% fee is on the back end (built into the quoted interest rate) and is not visible on the Loan Estimates. Are we certain about this?
100%. That is a great rate, but what are the costs associated with getting it (i.e., what are you Section A costs/J credits)?
Section A costs are $0. The lender credit is $360. If there is no urgency to lock-in and proceed, I am willing to consider waiting to see if the rates get better. Thoughts?
That is a very strong offer. My general advice is if you find an offer you like, lock it and run with it. My concern is that if you don't lock it, the lender may realize their misunderstanding and that offer will no longer be available to you. This is in addition to how the market moves in general.

That said, the mortgage market has averaged lower each day since Monday, so one would hope you still get at least as good of an offer.


P.S. - If this lender offers loans in NC, please let me know so I can apply with them! :)
+1. Traveler00, you can lock it, and still search for lower rates. Who is the lender?
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pianos101
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pianos101 »

traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:39 am FYI, in case you don't already know, Lenderfi's homepage says they are temporarily not accepting new applications due to demand.
That's been there since July 9th. If you search through this thread you'll find the way to "backdoor" an application.
traveler00
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by traveler00 »

pianos101 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:50 am
traveler00 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:39 am FYI, in case you don't already know, Lenderfi's homepage says they are temporarily not accepting new applications due to demand.
That's been there since July 9th. If you search through this thread you'll find the way to "backdoor" an application.
Thanks!
ZMonet
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ZMonet »

For those of you who have worked with WM, about how long did it take for your loan to go from the "Conditional Approval" state to closed? I've been conditionally approved for about a week and just wondering what the process/timeline might be from here. Thanks in advance!
JimmyD
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Post by JimmyD »

ZMonet wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:45 pm For those of you who have worked with WM, about how long did it take for your loan to go from the "Conditional Approval" state to closed? I've been conditionally approved for about a week and just wondering what the process/timeline might be from here. Thanks in advance!
It's been 28 days for me that I've been waiting to hear from someone in underwriting. The loan officer has told me multiple times that it's moving forward, but I'm honestly just ready to give up at this point. Not the end of the world being that I'm already at 2.875%.
gazelle1991
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gazelle1991 »

I closed on my refinance on 8/6/2020 with AimLoan. Anyone knows how long does it take for the loan to port over to their servicing system so that I can get a payoff statement for another refinance?

I did a cash-out refinance with AimLoan at 3.625% for $500 closing costs and want to refinance again non-cashout with LenderFi for 3.0% for no cost or could do 2.75% for about $2,600. I am tempted to go back to the 2.75% as that was the rate I was at before I did the cashout refinance. The only difference would be now I would be on a 30-year instead of 15. So all in all, I would only be paying $3,100 to borrow $105K in cash at 2.75% and extend the length of the loan from 11 years (left on the original 15 years) to 30 years.
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BrandonBogle
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Post by BrandonBogle »

gazelle1991 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:59 pm I did a cash-out refinance with AimLoan at 3.625% for $500 closing costs and want to refinance again non-cashout with LenderFi for 3.0% for no cost or could do 2.75% for about $2,600.
Not going to happen. For 6-months, regardless of lender you go to, this will be another cash-out refi even if you don't take out a penny extra.
orangeinvestor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by orangeinvestor »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:20 pm
gazelle1991 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:59 pm I did a cash-out refinance with AimLoan at 3.625% for $500 closing costs and want to refinance again non-cashout with LenderFi for 3.0% for no cost or could do 2.75% for about $2,600.
Not going to happen. For 6-months, regardless of lender you go to, this will be another cash-out refi even if you don't take out a penny extra.
I'm curious how would the new lender know that the current loan was a cash out refi? Has anyone tried to refi a cash our refi within 6 months and had this happen?
ZMonet
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ZMonet »

JimmyD wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:49 pm
ZMonet wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:45 pm For those of you who have worked with WM, about how long did it take for your loan to go from the "Conditional Approval" state to closed? I've been conditionally approved for about a week and just wondering what the process/timeline might be from here. Thanks in advance!
It's been 28 days for me that I've been waiting to hear from someone in underwriting. The loan officer has told me multiple times that it's moving forward, but I'm honestly just ready to give up at this point. Not the end of the world being that I'm already at 2.875%.
Thanks. Your experience is what worries me...When does your rate lock expire? I still have another month...I would have thought WM, and other lenders, would be hiring/pushing everyone they could to get their loans closed and sold off before 9/1. Maybe they know they won't be able to meet that deadline on most of their pipeline, or maybe the .5 doesn't mean that much to them in the grand scheme of things.
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BrandonBogle
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Post by BrandonBogle »

orangeinvestor wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:27 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:20 pm
gazelle1991 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:59 pm I did a cash-out refinance with AimLoan at 3.625% for $500 closing costs and want to refinance again non-cashout with LenderFi for 3.0% for no cost or could do 2.75% for about $2,600.
Not going to happen. For 6-months, regardless of lender you go to, this will be another cash-out refi even if you don't take out a penny extra.
I'm curious how would the new lender know that the current loan was a cash out refi? Has anyone tried to refi a cash our refi within 6 months and had this happen?
It is one of the things they ask you to attest to during the application process. Whether underwriting figures it out, unknown. But the title agent/company is likely to notice when they do the title search and prepare the title report for the lender. So you are likely to get hit with adverse pricing late in the process. Let's not even mention the, ahem, "Mortgage Fraud is a Crime" paperwork you also sign during the process because, you know, you attested to the classification of the existing mortgage.
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BrandonBogle
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Post by BrandonBogle »

ZMonet wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:28 pm Thanks. Your experience is what worries me...When does your rate lock expire? I still have another month...I would have thought WM, and other lenders, would be hiring/pushing everyone they could to get their loans closed and sold off before 9/1. Maybe they know they won't be able to meet that deadline on most of their pipeline, or maybe the .5 doesn't mean that much to them in the grand scheme of things.
The 0.5% temporary surcharge is unlikely to be worth the payroll and onboarding expenses to get additional people going. Also keep in mind that while the loan officer may work on commission, the rest of the team doesn't. So now you have potential overtime costs. This is in additional to many lenders already having multiple times their normal workload due to high refinancing activity during the pandemic.
orangeinvestor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by orangeinvestor »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:35 pm
orangeinvestor wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:27 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:20 pm
gazelle1991 wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:59 pm I did a cash-out refinance with AimLoan at 3.625% for $500 closing costs and want to refinance again non-cashout with LenderFi for 3.0% for no cost or could do 2.75% for about $2,600.
Not going to happen. For 6-months, regardless of lender you go to, this will be another cash-out refi even if you don't take out a penny extra.
I'm curious how would the new lender know that the current loan was a cash out refi? Has anyone tried to refi a cash our refi within 6 months and had this happen?
It is one of the things they ask you to attest to during the application process. Whether underwriting figures it out, unknown. But the title agent/company is likely to notice when they do the title search and prepare the title report for the lender. So you are likely to get hit with adverse pricing late in the process. Let's not even mention the, ahem, "Mortgage Fraud is a Crime" paperwork you also sign during the process because, you know, you attested to the classification of the existing mortgage.
I just looked through my refi application and paperwork (lenderfi) and didn't see that anywhere in the paperwork. I certainly don't advocate committing mortgage fraud, but I am wondering when in the process this would routinely come up. If the lender never asked and I never volunteered that my previous refi was a cash out would anything happen....
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BrandonBogle
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Post by BrandonBogle »

orangeinvestor wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:02 pm I just looked through my refi application and paperwork (lenderfi) and didn't see that anywhere in the paperwork. I certainly don't advocate committing mortgage fraud, but I am wondering when in the process this would routinely come up. If the lender never asked and I never volunteered that my previous refi was a cash out would anything happen....
Mistakes happen, so claiming fraud is unlikely. But what likely would happen is you get an updated loan estimate at some point that says there has been a "change in circumstances" due to "information not known at time of application" and the estimate will now be a cash-out. As with many things in the mortgage industry, your mileage may vary.
gazelle1991
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Post by gazelle1991 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:15 pm
orangeinvestor wrote: Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:02 pm I just looked through my refi application and paperwork (lenderfi) and didn't see that anywhere in the paperwork. I certainly don't advocate committing mortgage fraud, but I am wondering when in the process this would routinely come up. If the lender never asked and I never volunteered that my previous refi was a cash out would anything happen....
Mistakes happen, so claiming fraud is unlikely. But what likely would happen is you get an updated loan estimate at some point that says there has been a "change in circumstances" due to "information not known at time of application" and the estimate will now be a cash-out. As with many things in the mortgage industry, your mileage may vary.
LenderFi doesn't offer cash-out refinance so I am wondering if they even have a different rate for this situation. Good point though, I should ask them about this and tell them I did a cashout refinance with AimLoan less than 6-months ago and see if they can still get me a good rates.
Futbolista
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Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:33 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Futbolista »

This thread has been godsend so thanks for all the tips! :beer

I'm shopping a 30 year VA jumbo IRRL. I have one at 2.875 with no costs (A+B+C+E+Credits) and a second offer at 2.75 where my cost would be $800. These are from two different lenders who aren't willing to match each other at the equivalent rates. My break even on the 2.75 is about 19 months. Does anyone have thoughts on whether this is a short enough time horizon to take the lower rate? Part of me thinks that 2.75 for 30 years is amazing and the other wonders whether rates could fall farther with our aging demographics and more federal stimulus.
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