Refinance Mega Thread

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Radman
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Radman »

raixx017 wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:02 pm
Radman wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:42 pm Another LenderFi data point. State Iowa. Applied through the backdoor website link which has been posted, rate locked 8/7/2020. 2.25% 15 year fixed. Loan 425,000. LTV 77%. Appraisal was waved. A + B + C + E = 1599. Lender credit 1599. We are pretty happy with the offer.
How soon are they saying they can lock this rate for you ? I wad told it can be done only after completing an initial loan approval process, which could take up to 15 days. What if market rate changes withing this time ?
I received the "locked" disclosure paperwork yesterday, so it took about 7 days from initial inquiry to receiving the paperwork confirming the lock.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

jimmyrules712 wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:15 pm
Ana Z wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:07 pm Regarding supporting documentation: when sending bank statements and tax returns (required by broker), do you redact out account numbers? Is it allowed to redact them out? This feels too intrusive to me.
I do not and they would probably reject the documents if you did which would slow everything down. They need some way of identifying the accounts. Account numbers are not really that sensitive anyway. It's printed right on the bottom of every check you hand out and you're already giving them your SSN so what's the point.
Yup. For me, each of my refis explicitly mentioned to include every page, even blank ones, and not to redact anything.
xerxes101
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by xerxes101 »

jimmyrules712 wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:49 am
xerxes101 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:07 pm I was disappointed that they could not send me daily rates table via e-mail automatically (in other words I do not get the impression that they are technologically advanced).
Which lenders have been able to set up an automatic daily rate table email?
Third Federal Savings and Loan...I am sure there are others...I am pretty sure you can set it up with Better.com also.
JSDNJ
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JSDNJ »

I locked on 8/11 with better. Anyone hear from them as far as this news? Do we expect the locks to be honored?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

JSDNJ wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:48 pm I locked on 8/11 with better. Anyone hear from them as far as this news? Do we expect the locks to be honored?
If rates shot up without this development, do you feel Better would honor the locks?
AnonJohn
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by AnonJohn »

jimmyrules712 wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:52 am
AnonJohn wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:01 am I see a number of posts in this thread about LenderFI. Yet, for more than a month now, when I go to their website I am met with an Important Message: " Given the high volume of loans coming in we are not able to offer the service LenderFi was founded on, so temporarily we are not taking on any new applications."

Have any of the people working with them started in the last month or so?

In part I'm wondering if they are geolocating and filtering parts of the country based on IP. Generally, the rates in this thread are substantially better than what I've been able to find for my market.
A lot of people are still getting their foot in the door with LenderFI by using backdoor links like this one: https://app.lenderfi.com/partner/C8AX0T65/search/
Thank you!
JSDNJ
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JSDNJ »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:54 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:48 pm I locked on 8/11 with better. Anyone hear from them as far as this news? Do we expect the locks to be honored?
If rates shot up without this development, do you feel Better would honor the locks?
I have no idea, aren't they obligated to?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

JSDNJ wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:01 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:54 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:48 pm I locked on 8/11 with better. Anyone hear from them as far as this news? Do we expect the locks to be honored?
If rates shot up without this development, do you feel Better would honor the locks?
I have no idea, aren't they obligated to?
Yes, so I don’t see why this would be any different.
hambone
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by hambone »

JSDNJ wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:01 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:54 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:48 pm I locked on 8/11 with better. Anyone hear from them as far as this news? Do we expect the locks to be honored?
If rates shot up without this development, do you feel Better would honor the locks?
I have no idea, aren't they obligated to?
Yes that is the whole point of the concept of a rate lock. You are acknowledging that you are locking into whatever that rate may be at that point in time for a set amount of time (IE 30 days) regardless of what happens to interest rates.
wootwoot
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by wootwoot »

JSDNJ wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:01 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:54 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:48 pm I locked on 8/11 with better. Anyone hear from them as far as this news? Do we expect the locks to be honored?
If rates shot up without this development, do you feel Better would honor the locks?
I have no idea, aren't they obligated to?
It's called a rate lock for a reason. If they could change their mind later what would be the point of locking it in?
TanyTrojan
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by TanyTrojan »

I locked my rate yesterday @ 3.30 pm PST with LenderFI. They said it will take 2-3 days to get LE. I don't know when the announcement was made about 0.5% fee. Do you guys think LenderFI will honor my lock rate with no closing costs? I am hoping so as they didn't mention anything about these fees while locking and gave me a verbal confirmation of the rate with no closing costs. Thanks!
jimmyrules712
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jimmyrules712 »

TanyTrojan wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:19 pm I locked my rate yesterday @ 3.30 pm PST with LenderFI. They said it will take 2-3 days to get LE. I don't know when the announcement was made about 0.5% fee. Do you guys think LenderFI will honor my lock rate with no closing costs? I am hoping so as they didn't mention anything about these fees while locking and gave me a verbal confirmation of the rate with no closing costs. Thanks!
If they told you that it was locked then you should be good. If you merely emailed them asking to lock and haven't heard back yet then you may not actually be locked yet.
jdbst56
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jdbst56 »

Amfed came back today and offered 2.875 on 30 yr fixed. 174k loan. They waived the appraisal. It would cost me about $2500 to close the deal not including prepaids. Yesterday before the Fannie/Freddie announcement it was 2.75. I’m currently at 3.375. So far their offer is the best even with the increase but not sure if I should stand pat for a while? Thoughts?
ymmt
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ymmt »

Just curious: Post rate lock, are lender credits and/or costs subject to change?
jjhk121
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jjhk121 »

TanyTrojan wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:19 pm I locked my rate yesterday @ 3.30 pm PST with LenderFI. They said it will take 2-3 days to get LE. I don't know when the announcement was made about 0.5% fee. Do you guys think LenderFI will honor my lock rate with no closing costs? I am hoping so as they didn't mention anything about these fees while locking and gave me a verbal confirmation of the rate with no closing costs. Thanks!

I'm in the same boat. Looking at my call history I locked yesterday verbally at 3:40 PST.

From reading through this thread and the LenderFi thread it seems that it's common to not hear anything for a few days before receiving confirmation that you're locked. Nothing we can do but wait I guess.

I did receive an email right after the phone call requesting some documents be uploaded the the portal. Did that happen to you as well?
TanyTrojan
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by TanyTrojan »

jjhk121 wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:50 pm
TanyTrojan wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:19 pm I locked my rate yesterday @ 3.30 pm PST with LenderFI. They said it will take 2-3 days to get LE. I don't know when the announcement was made about 0.5% fee. Do you guys think LenderFI will honor my lock rate with no closing costs? I am hoping so as they didn't mention anything about these fees while locking and gave me a verbal confirmation of the rate with no closing costs. Thanks!

I'm in the same boat. Looking at my call history I locked yesterday verbally at 3:40 PST.

From reading through this thread and the LenderFi thread it seems that it's common to not hear anything for a few days before receiving confirmation that you're locked. Nothing we can do but wait I guess.

I did receive an email right after the phone call requesting some documents be uploaded the the portal. Did that happen to you as well?
Yes I received the email and immediately uploaded all documents. Who was your loan officer? (I spoke with Ryan). Lets keep each other posted.
jjhk121
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jjhk121 »

TanyTrojan wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:57 pm
jjhk121 wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:50 pm
TanyTrojan wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:19 pm I locked my rate yesterday @ 3.30 pm PST with LenderFI. They said it will take 2-3 days to get LE. I don't know when the announcement was made about 0.5% fee. Do you guys think LenderFI will honor my lock rate with no closing costs? I am hoping so as they didn't mention anything about these fees while locking and gave me a verbal confirmation of the rate with no closing costs. Thanks!

I'm in the same boat. Looking at my call history I locked yesterday verbally at 3:40 PST.

From reading through this thread and the LenderFi thread it seems that it's common to not hear anything for a few days before receiving confirmation that you're locked. Nothing we can do but wait I guess.

I did receive an email right after the phone call requesting some documents be uploaded the the portal. Did that happen to you as well?
Yes I received the email and immediately uploaded all documents. Who was your loan officer? (I spoke with Ryan). Lets keep each other posted.
My LO is Robert
Ignis
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Ignis »

I spoke with LenderFi this afternoon. While I can’t say for sure, the gentleman on the phone (not my LO) made it sound like if we had a verbal lock over the phone prior to this news we would not be affected.

My LO online is Ryan, but Brad is the one who called me about the improved LE and the one I locked with.
TanyTrojan
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by TanyTrojan »

Ignis wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:02 pm I spoke with LenderFi this afternoon. While I can’t say for sure, the gentleman on the phone (not my LO) made it sound like if we had a verbal lock over the phone prior to this news we would not be affected.

My LO online is Ryan, but Brad is the one who called me about the improved LE and the one I locked with.
Are they going to impose 0.5% fee on you during closing? (Assuming you locked in today)
Shikoku
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Shikoku »

anon_investor wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:50 pm
soobaerodude wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:45 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:58 am Someone on Slickdeals posted earlier this week getting offered 2.5 or 2.625% with a $6,500 lender credit, but didn’t immediately lock. When they called the lock the next morning, it was the same rate but $3,000 in lender credits. That was before all this happened. This is the same kind of impact and really nothing to fuss over.
Ouch, that was me. LC sent a draft LE with $6100 in lender credit, and I forwarded that on to Better try and get a match. The draft LE was incomplete in a few places, so Better said they could not match. By the time I sent my request to LC to lock and generate a more formal LE, markets had closed for the day. I had to lock the next day, and credits dropped to $2600 :oops:

The LC loan officer did mention he had to set a 60 day lock, so I'm not sure if the initial LE had more credit because of a shorter lock, market fluctuations or a combination of both
That sucks. Moral of the story? Lock first, bargain later...
After I lock, if a better rate and lender credit become available to everyone next day, that might not be available to me -- that is how I understand the lock and rate table. So if soobaerodude locked on that day with $6,100 lender credit, and the next day lender credit becomes $10,000, what would have happened?
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

ymmt wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:42 pm Just curious: Post rate lock, are lender credits and/or costs subject to change?
Yes
Soares1234
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Soares1234 »

manatee2005 wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:26 am Did anyone close with Watermark? I have a refi going with someone else at 2.75% I got a LE from watermark for 2.5% and tried to match but it didn’t work. I’ve heard not so good things about Watermark and I don’t know if this 2.5% will actually close. Unfortunately the company with 2.75% is a couple of weeks ahead of Watermarl, I’d hate to cancel the 2.75% refi and then for Watermark to fall through as well. Is it possible to close on 2.75% and then close on 2.5% with watermark 2 weeks later?
Loan amount, LTV and term?
covertfantom
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by covertfantom »

I'm another prospective LenderFi customer that 'locked' my rate 30 minutes before closing time yesterday. Spoke to my rep today and he said that he pushed it into the system in time... but they're so backlogged that they haven't been able to confirm it yet. He also indicated that approval should happen in the next 48 hours... but that it's on the Freddie Mac/Fannie May side of things... so there's a possibility that they punt and the rate lock gets cancelled.

The rep indicated that if I were to lock today, my 20 year 2.5% interest loan jumps to 2.75%. Ugh. I'm supposed to call back by the end of the day every single business day until he can confirm that this thing is going to go across the line.
Soares1234
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Soares1234 »

drdh wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:18 am Locked yesterday with Loan Depot at 2.625% 30 yr con LTV 74%. Appraisal waived. No escrow (apparently this does not make a difference in CA?).

A = $1,595
B = $112
C = $1,470
Lender credit = $2,035

Any opinions? Should I move forward? LenderFi this morning said to go with it. Am new to refinancing but have benefited a lot from posts on this thread, so thank you all very much!!!
Loan amount?
sabhen
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sabhen »

Being offered 2.375% with 2 points with Rocket Mortgage (30 year fixed). Need to decide today. Loan amount: $490k, House value estimate: $850k in CA. Estimated costs: $10k. Monthly saving: $139. payback: 72 month (6 years). I need to decide today.

Thoughts?
pwill112
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pwill112 »

So how do I select which lender to contact to pursue a refinance?

I see Better, LenderFi, LoanDepot mentioned alot.

30 year fixed
450,000 loan amount
60% LTV
Refinance
FICO score very high- 800+
No Debt
Retired
Living in NJ
I am looking for the lowest closing costs, not the lowest rate.
Currently at Wells Fargo, 30 year fixed at 3.875

Thanks!
squirm
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by squirm »

Anyone uses loanmonkey?
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

sabhen wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:11 pm Being offered 2.375% with 2 points with Rocket Mortgage (30 year fixed). Need to decide today. Loan amount: $490k, House value estimate: $850k in CA. Estimated costs: $10k. Monthly saving: $139. payback: 72 month (6 years). I need to decide today.

Thoughts?
That's a lot of points and a pretty high payback. What are you currently at? Why not look into zero cost to lock in some savings and give you flexibility without needing the pay anything out of pocket?
jjhk121
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jjhk121 »

pwill112 wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:21 pm So how do I select which lender to contact to pursue a refinance?

I see Better, LenderFi, LoanDepot mentioned alot.

30 year fixed
450,000 loan amount
60% LTV
Refinance
FICO score very high- 800+
No Debt
Retired
Living in NJ
I am looking for the lowest closing costs, not the lowest rate.
Currently at Wells Fargo, 30 year fixed at 3.875

Thanks!
Apply to them all. Don't worry about the credit inquiries, your score will be okay.
fallingeggs
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by fallingeggs »

SVT wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:12 am How come I don't see anyone posting about mortgages from brokers through the UWM programs? They just announced a 30 year program as low as 1.99%. I think that costs some money but wouldn't they maybe still be competitive for no cost at higher rate?
Can't fault you for not reading every post of this thread, but I closed with UWM less than two months ago. Yes, you pay a broker fee. Yes, even with that broker fee, the loan was the cheapest option.
Ignis
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Ignis »

TanyTrojan wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:20 pm
Ignis wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:02 pm I spoke with LenderFi this afternoon. While I can’t say for sure, the gentleman on the phone (not my LO) made it sound like if we had a verbal lock over the phone prior to this news we would not be affected.

My LO online is Ryan, but Brad is the one who called me about the improved LE and the one I locked with.
Are they going to impose 0.5% fee on you during closing? (Assuming you locked in today)
I got the impression that since I “locked” on Monday, I will not have the extra 0.5% added on.
Minty
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Minty »

Minty wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:31 am Better.com declined to match my LE in the last refi, and I asked for the then-$1000 guarantee. I sent in all of the paperwork they requested (Closing Disclosure and Note) a month ago. Today I got an email asking for another copy. So maybe they will actually pay it.
Update: Received this recently. Better declined to match when the guarantee was $1,000, and it was still $1,000 when I got my Closing Disclosure and Note to them, but the guarantee subsequently dropped to $100. So they came through with the promise in place when I filed my claim. Better in my book was a straight-shooting business, which is good to know. Now to deposit it in my Fidelity-As-A-One-Stop-Shop Account . . . .

Image
Core Four w/ nominal bonds & TIPS. Refi Rampage: Purchase: 4.125% 30 -> R1 3% 20 -> R2 2.375% 15 -> R3 locked 1.99% 15
JSDNJ
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JSDNJ »

ymmt wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:42 pm Just curious: Post rate lock, are lender credits and/or costs subject to change?
This is more my concern. I don’t expect the rate to change. But in this environment the rate is only part of the deal.
JSDNJ
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JSDNJ »

ChiKid24 wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:33 pm
sabhen wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:11 pm Being offered 2.375% with 2 points with Rocket Mortgage (30 year fixed). Need to decide today. Loan amount: $490k, House value estimate: $850k in CA. Estimated costs: $10k. Monthly saving: $139. payback: 72 month (6 years). I need to decide today.

Thoughts?
That's a lot of points and a pretty high payback. What are you currently at? Why not look into zero cost to lock in some savings and give you flexibility without needing the pay anything out of pocket?
He’s not getting a rate that low with no cost.
JSDNJ
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JSDNJ »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:33 pm
ymmt wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:42 pm Just curious: Post rate lock, are lender credits and/or costs subject to change?
Yes
If that’s the case anyone who locked in the last week is in trouble. Most BHs are doing deals involving credits.
sabhen
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by sabhen »

ChiKid24 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:33 pm
sabhen wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:11 pm
Being offered 2.375% with 2 points with Rocket Mortgage (30 year fixed). Need to decide today. Loan amount: $490k, House value estimate: $850k in CA. Estimated costs: $10k. Monthly saving: $139. payback: 72 month (6 years). I need to decide today.

Thoughts?
That's a lot of points and a pretty high payback. What are you currently at? Why not look into zero cost to lock in some savings and give you flexibility without needing the pay anything out of pocket?
He’s not getting a rate that low with no cost.
I am currently paying 2.975% for a 10 year ARM (30-year total) with more than 9 years to go before a reset. This refinance will be with the same company. I want to keep the property for retirement with pool and within 3 miles from the beach. The company will waive the appraisal.
Last edited by sabhen on Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

JSDNJ wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:16 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:33 pm
ymmt wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:42 pm Just curious: Post rate lock, are lender credits and/or costs subject to change?
Yes
If that’s the case anyone who locked in the last week is in trouble. Most BHs are doing deals involving credits.
Not necessarily. Nothing has been said here about why credits and costs would change. It is unrelated to the new Fannie Mae pricing.

If you are financing closing costs and you get closer to closing and the escrow funding needed goes up, then your loan amount goes up. At some lenders, this would also mean your lender credits go up.

Meanwhile, say you are financing closing costs and your loan estimate had the full rate title insurance on it, which then gets reduced if you are in one fo the states that offer reissue discounts. Now your loan amount is smaller since your costs are smaller, so your lender credits shrink. So here, both costs and credits went down.

Let’s say you aren’t financing closing costs and have a certain loan amount. Between locking and closing on the refi, you end up making two payments on your mortgage, reducing the loan amount needed by $3,000. Now your title insurance policy costs less because a lower amount is being insured.

So yeah, costs and credits are subject to change based on changing characteristics of the loan. The circumstances of the market though are not a factor.
goru1
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by goru1 »

How is this quote?

Quote:
8/12, 30 year, 2.875%, No cost, No points.

Current Mortgage:
30 year, 3.25%, No cost, Unpaid principal 257k, Maturity date 12/2042.
nic3456
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

My lender credits with Better dropped about $700 last month after rate lock because my appraisal came in lower and bumped me into a new LTV bracket,


FWIW on the rate lock mine was expiring today with Better and they extended with no increased cost from the Fannie change (supposed to close early next week)
bgh11
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

nic3456 wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:58 pm My lender credits with Better dropped about $700 last month after rate lock because my appraisal came in lower and bumped me into a new LTV bracket,


FWIW on the rate lock mine was expiring today with Better and they extended with no increased cost from the Fannie change (supposed to close early next week)
Fannie change starts in Sept so closing in Aug should not cost them the addition
Ignis
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Ignis »

Ignis wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:02 pm
TanyTrojan wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:20 pm
Ignis wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:02 pm I spoke with LenderFi this afternoon. While I can’t say for sure, the gentleman on the phone (not my LO) made it sound like if we had a verbal lock over the phone prior to this news we would not be affected.

My LO online is Ryan, but Brad is the one who called me about the improved LE and the one I locked with.
Are they going to impose 0.5% fee on you during closing? (Assuming you locked in today)
I got the impression that since I “locked” on Monday, I will not have the extra 0.5% added on.
Update: Got my updated/locked loan estimate a short while ago. Nothing changed. :beer
cb474
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by cb474 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:58 am Folks, I get the anxiety around this new fee, I really do. But keep in mind that market rates themselves could move 0.5% from week to week anyways. This is honestly no different, just that we know when and how much will change.

I wouldn’t worry about this or change any plans because of it. If someone gave you a 2.5% loan at $X dollars, but you didn’t lock, it easily could be 2.5% at 1.05*$X when you go to lock.

Someone on Slickdeals posted earlier this week getting offered 2.5 or 2.625% with a $6,500 lender credit, but didn’t immediately lock. When they called the lock the next morning, it was the same rate but $3,000 in lender credits. That was before all this happened. This is the same kind of impact and really nothing to fuss over.
I really appreciate your posts and sharing your experience in this thread. But I think this is a bigger deal than you are making it out to be, as explained here:

http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/consum ... 52069.aspx

The article explains that even though it's a .5 point fee, the way it was suddenly sprung on the mortgage market without any warning has caused lenders to overreact, defensively (as most businesses do when faced with unpredictable suprises). So the actual cost on average added onto loans by lenders is working out to be closer to 1 point. That's a lot to suddenly stack on practically every loan in the market.

In addition, because it was sprung on lenders so out of the blue, they didn't have time to sort everything out and most lenders just applied the additional fee to all loans, even purchases, even though it's only being applied by Fannie Mae to refinances. Hopefully that will sort out and get readjusted soon, but that's a completely unintended side effect for purchasers.

In addition, even though the .5 point fee is only supposed to apply to refinances that settle after September 1, most lenders just applied additional costs to all unlocked loans including the ones settling before September 1. Another adverse affect on loans that Fannie Mae was not targeting.

Moreover lenders may turn out to be gun shy about lower rates back down too much, even for purchasers, because they may now be pricing in the uncertainty of what Fannie Mae will do next.

So Fannie Mae didn't just tack a .5 point fee on refinances. The sprung something on lenders out of the blue and the unexpected nature of the action caused a much more significant adjustment upward in loan costs than just the .5 point fee. It spilled over in the the purchase market, which was not intended by Fannie Mae, and onto loans settling before September 1. And it will probably leave lenders pricing in higher costs overall into the future, because they now have to account for Fannie Mae doing things out of the blue with no warning.
Last edited by cb474 on Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Crazy_Aussie
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:19 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Crazy_Aussie »

During a call today with Better, I mentioned I had competing LEs to send and they asked me whether the LEs were dated within the last 3 days..... which surprised me a little since I've mostly seen mention of people having to provide LEs within 1 day.

For context, I logged on late last night to lock with Better on an application I started on July 24th (in an attempt to get a second AMEX $2500 credit after my first Better refi which closed late June).
The phone call was to ask if I would consider delaying closing on this current refi till early November and accept an extra $2500 lender credit in lieu of the AMEX statement credit. Since I had just refinance in late June, and they had sold the loan to Fannie Mae.

So if you have good LEs within the last 3 days, you may still have a chance to have Better match.
zrzhu111
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:03 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by zrzhu111 »

goru1 wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:55 pm How is this quote?

Quote:
8/12, 30 year, 2.875%, No cost, No points.

Current Mortgage:
30 year, 3.25%, No cost, Unpaid principal 257k, Maturity date 12/2042.
where did you get the quote from? This looks really good.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

cb474 wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:33 pm I really appreciate your posts and sharing your experience in this thread. But I think this is a bigger deal than you are making it out to be, as explained here:

http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/consum ... 52069.aspx

The article explains that even though it's a .5 point fee, the way it was suddenly sprung on the mortgage market without any warning has caused lenders to overreact, defensively (as most businesses do when faced with unpredictable suprises). So the actual cost on average added onto loans by lenders is working out to be closer to 1 point. That's a lot to suddenly stack on practically every loan in the market.

In addition, because it was sprung on lenders so out of the blue, they didn't have time to sort everything out and most lenders just applied the additional fee to all loans, even purchases, even though it's only being applied by Fannie Mae to refinances. Hopefully that will sort out and get readjusted soon, but that's a completely unintended side effect for purchasers.

In addition, even though the .5 point fee is only supposed to apply to refinances that settle after September 1, most lenders just applied additional costs to all unlocked loans including the ones settling before September 1. Another adverse affect on loans that Fannie Mae was not targeting.

Moreover lenders may turn out to be gun shy about lower rates back down too much, even for purchasers, because they may now be pricing in the uncertainty of what Fannie Mae will do next.

So Fannie Mae didn't just tack a .5 point fee on refinances. The sprung something on lenders out of the blue and the unexpected nature of the action caused a much more significant adjustment upward in loan costs than just the .5 point fee. It spilled over in the the purchase market, which was not intended by Fannie Mae, and onto loans settling before September 1. And it will probably leave lenders pricing in higher costs overall into the future, because they now have to account for Fannie Mae doing things out of the blue with no warning.
I understand what you are saying. But the reports from people getting quotes today here and on Slickdeals is that pricing went up 0.125% or around $1,500 in costs for the same rate. Now, that market is large and there are plenty of crappy lenders, but hopefully none of us Bogleheads are working with such lenders.

Btw, both my LenderFi and Better unlocked apps have 0.125% higher for $250 less in lender credits than yesterday, so about $750 in adverse pricing for me as my loans are roughly $500 for each 0.125% (rough generalization). But I’m also just a single anecdotal report from three lenders (my third was quoting on their webpage, not an app).
Shikoku
Posts: 406
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:01 pm
Location: USA

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Shikoku »

sabhen wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:11 pm Being offered 2.375% with 2 points with Rocket Mortgage (30 year fixed). Need to decide today. Loan amount: $490k, House value estimate: $850k in CA. Estimated costs: $10k. Monthly saving: $139. payback: 72 month (6 years). I need to decide today.

Thoughts?
I have always walked away from offers with such deadlines, and I believe I have not missed much. YMMV.
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett
Fatusr
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 10:44 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Fatusr »

I locked with LC last friday and the agent said they can close only in October. Do I have to pay 0.5 fees if that’s the case?

Loan amount 650k
30 years, 2.5%, ~1k closing cost after lender credits.
chet96
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:14 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by chet96 »

cogito wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:28 pm Can confirm. LoanCabin contacted me yesterday with an offer for 30 year, 2.625%, with 2000 in lender credits. Did not lock. This morning the rep emailed and said she could only offer 500 in lender credits. Sounds like they adjusted pretty quickly to that news... I assume that will happen across the board. Thankful to be closing with Better in a week!
Can I ask when you applied? I have heard nothing from them - going on a couple weeks.
cogito
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:12 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by cogito »

chet96 wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:07 pm
cogito wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:28 pm Can confirm. LoanCabin contacted me yesterday with an offer for 30 year, 2.625%, with 2000 in lender credits. Did not lock. This morning the rep emailed and said she could only offer 500 in lender credits. Sounds like they adjusted pretty quickly to that news... I assume that will happen across the board. Thankful to be closing with Better in a week!
Can I ask when you applied? I have heard nothing from them - going on a couple weeks.
I applied on 7/23. They are slammed.
drdh
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:11 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drdh »

Soares1234 wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:56 pm
drdh wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:18 am Locked yesterday with Loan Depot at 2.625% 30 yr con LTV 74%. Appraisal waived. No escrow (apparently this does not make a difference in CA?).

A = $1,595
B = $112
C = $1,470
Lender credit = $2,035
(Edit: loan amount = $745k)

Any opinions? Should I move forward? LenderFi this morning said to go with it. Am new to refinancing but have benefited a lot from posts on this thread, so thank you all very much!!!
Loan amount?
$745k (that’s under the conforming limit in my county).

Update: a few LOs at other frequently-mentioned lenders advised (today) to move forward with it. Which I will. Especially given the news about Fannie and Freddie.
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