Refinance Mega Thread

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
VCC
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by VCC »

UWM announced today they will offer 1.99 30yr mortgages. No idea how many points that will require.
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 3726
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

VCC wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:22 pm UWM announced today they will offer 1.99 30yr mortgages. No idea how many points that will require.
Waiting for a no cost 1.99% 30 year fixed refi...
newbiead
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:09 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbiead »

VCC wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:22 pm UWM announced today they will offer 1.99 30yr mortgages. No idea how many points that will require.
Where can we find who is going to offer this? Looks like their website is mostly targeted for brokers.
ChiKid24
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

newbiead wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:58 pm
VCC wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:22 pm UWM announced today they will offer 1.99 30yr mortgages. No idea how many points that will require.
Where can we find who is going to offer this? Looks like their website is mostly targeted for brokers.
Keystone is a good broker for UWM. I worked with someone there and she was very responsive, though I ultimately went with Better.
InvestDoc
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestDoc »

bgh11 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:41 pm
InvestDoc wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:20 pm Has anyone used or heard of CF bank? I heard about them from someone on another forum but their name hasn't popped up anywhere else. And unfortunately "CF" is too few letters to use the search function. Anyway, I got a great quote from them but wanted some info on their customer service, loan processing, follow through, etc. if anyone else has used them.
never heard. Not sure how real these reviews are: https://www.zillow.com/lender-profile/CFBank/
https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/reviews/cfbank/
Do you mind sharing your quote?

This is for a high balance conforming 30 year fixed loan in California. He gave me several options depending on how many points (or credit) I wanted.
3.25% $1839 closing costs + $3528 lender credit (net -$1689)
3.125% $1839 closing cost + $2935 lender credit (net -$1096)
3.0% $1839 closing cost + $2096 lender credit (net -$257)
2.875% $1839 closing cost + $1210 lender credit (net +$629)
2.75% $1839 closing cost + $1174 charge (net +$3013)

I assume the credits/charges are based on +/- points but the loan quote doesn't phrase it in terms of points but actual numbers.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3328
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

bgh11 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:42 pm Do all or most lenders lock in the entire rate tables and allow borrowers to move around? Thanks.
I honestly don’t know. Part of it is the person you are asking actually understanding your question properly. loanDepot for instance told me that no, they do not lock the entire rate table and let me switch after I’ve locked. But when I said I was going to go elsewhere because of higher credits on the higher rate, the loan offer said that for his loan, that same rate had $XYZ in credits.

To me, that sounds like what I wanted. However, maybe he was talking about how he can make the case for changing things to save the loan? Watermark told me similarly that I’m only locking that specific rate, but then had no qualms moving me up 0.125% to have higher credits. So it is anyone’s guess.

Personally, I like the flexibility that locking the whole rate table provides. It makes it easier to shop across various options. But that is probably exactly why the lenders don’t want me to have that option! Lol
gnc
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gnc »

InvestDoc wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:09 pm
bgh11 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:41 pm
InvestDoc wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:20 pm Has anyone used or heard of CF bank? I heard about them from someone on another forum but their name hasn't popped up anywhere else. And unfortunately "CF" is too few letters to use the search function. Anyway, I got a great quote from them but wanted some info on their customer service, loan processing, follow through, etc. if anyone else has used them.
never heard. Not sure how real these reviews are: https://www.zillow.com/lender-profile/CFBank/
https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/reviews/cfbank/
Do you mind sharing your quote?

This is for a high balance conforming 30 year fixed loan in California. He gave me several options depending on how many points (or credit) I wanted.
3.25% $1839 closing costs + $3528 lender credit (net -$1689)
3.125% $1839 closing cost + $2935 lender credit (net -$1096)
3.0% $1839 closing cost + $2096 lender credit (net -$257)
2.875% $1839 closing cost + $1210 lender credit (net +$629)
2.75% $1839 closing cost + $1174 charge (net +$3013)

I assume the credits/charges are based on +/- points but the loan quote doesn't phrase it in terms of points but actual numbers.
They did our new mortgage last summer. Didn’t have any complaints (and at the time, they offered us the best rate we could find... not sure if that is still true today). And when the rates dropped a bit they gave us a decent float down option. They sold our mortgage immediately to a big bank.
ChiKid24
Posts: 333
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

VCC wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:22 pm UWM announced today they will offer 1.99 30yr mortgages. No idea how many points that will require.
Spoke to a local broker about this and it's definitely not no cost. His words: "It's about 2.5-3 points to buy down. You have to had never done a loan with UWM for 18 months and the max rate lock is 22 days. It isn't really for everyone. It is an option for people who feel like rates will never reach sub 2 again and won't look to refinance again ever during their homeownership."
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 3726
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

ChiKid24 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:53 pm
VCC wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:22 pm UWM announced today they will offer 1.99 30yr mortgages. No idea how many points that will require.
Spoke to a local broker about this and it's definitely not no cost. His words: "It's about 2.5-3 points to buy down. You have to had never done a loan with UWM for 18 months and the max rate lock is 22 days. It isn't really for everyone. It is an option for people who feel like rates will never reach sub 2 again and won't look to refinance again ever during their homeownership."
So basically not for anyone that is reading this thread. I have already refinanced twice this year :twisted: .
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3328
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:55 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:53 pm
VCC wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:22 pm UWM announced today they will offer 1.99 30yr mortgages. No idea how many points that will require.
Spoke to a local broker about this and it's definitely not no cost. His words: "It's about 2.5-3 points to buy down. You have to had never done a loan with UWM for 18 months and the max rate lock is 22 days. It isn't really for everyone. It is an option for people who feel like rates will never reach sub 2 again and won't look to refinance again ever during their homeownership."
So basically not for anyone that is reading this thread. I have already refinanced twice this year :twisted: .
Hehe. While I’ve got the # 3 ready to start processing after I close on # 2 this week and have contemplated doing a fourth!
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 3726
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:11 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:55 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:53 pm
VCC wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:22 pm UWM announced today they will offer 1.99 30yr mortgages. No idea how many points that will require.
Spoke to a local broker about this and it's definitely not no cost. His words: "It's about 2.5-3 points to buy down. You have to had never done a loan with UWM for 18 months and the max rate lock is 22 days. It isn't really for everyone. It is an option for people who feel like rates will never reach sub 2 again and won't look to refinance again ever during their homeownership."
So basically not for anyone that is reading this thread. I have already refinanced twice this year :twisted: .
Hehe. While I’ve got the # 3 ready to start processing after I close on # 2 this week and have contemplated doing a fourth!
How long are you going to wait between #2 and #3? Do they have to run credit again even?
Soares1234
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:50 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Soares1234 »

VCC wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:22 pm UWM announced today they will offer 1.99 30yr mortgages. No idea how many points that will require.
Sent emails to lenders in Boston. Will let everyone know what they respond with. (My Details: 80% LTV, 580k balance 30Yr fixed. 3 family)
Soares1234
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:50 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Soares1234 »

newbiead wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:58 pm
VCC wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:22 pm UWM announced today they will offer 1.99 30yr mortgages. No idea how many points that will require.
Where can we find who is going to offer this? Looks like their website is mostly targeted for brokers.
Search UWM in search box at the top. It will lead you to replies with link.
cogito
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:12 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by cogito »

Man, decisions... about to close with Better in a week or so, and LoanCabin finally gets back to me (after like 3 weeks). I'm at 2.875 for 30 year fixed, no cost (2200 credits), plus Amex. LoanCabin will do the same for 2.625%. Is that good enough to crash my deal with Better and forfeit the Amex bonus? I've already paid for appraisal and gone through underwriting. I'm thinking I'm probably better off just closing with Better, pocketing the 2500 cash, and gambling on just doing another refi down the road, right? Has anyone had success asking for a float down a week before closing?
fkruegelp5
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:13 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by fkruegelp5 »

I've been lurking but thank you to everyone for the information.

I am re-financing with my local lender who financed my mortgage last year.

First quote was on July 13:
$458,000 about 88% LTV
2.875% - $1800 lender credits covers all the fees
Estimated closing of end of August

Then shopped around online and asked for if my lender could improve and they came back with:
August 11
2.625% - $1600 lender credits covers all the fees
Closing end of this month
soobaerodude
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:16 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by soobaerodude »

InvestDoc wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:09 pm
bgh11 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:41 pm
InvestDoc wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:20 pm Has anyone used or heard of CF bank? I heard about them from someone on another forum but their name hasn't popped up anywhere else. And unfortunately "CF" is too few letters to use the search function. Anyway, I got a great quote from them but wanted some info on their customer service, loan processing, follow through, etc. if anyone else has used them.
never heard. Not sure how real these reviews are: https://www.zillow.com/lender-profile/CFBank/
https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/reviews/cfbank/
Do you mind sharing your quote?

This is for a high balance conforming 30 year fixed loan in California. He gave me several options depending on how many points (or credit) I wanted.
3.25% $1839 closing costs + $3528 lender credit (net -$1689)
3.125% $1839 closing cost + $2935 lender credit (net -$1096)
3.0% $1839 closing cost + $2096 lender credit (net -$257)
2.875% $1839 closing cost + $1210 lender credit (net +$629)
2.75% $1839 closing cost + $1174 charge (net +$3013)

I assume the credits/charges are based on +/- points but the loan quote doesn't phrase it in terms of points but actual numbers.
These rates don't seem that great for a high conforming 30 year loan in Ca, but it would depend on your LTV. I've been shopping around for $760k 65% LTV, and have seen 2.625% with net -$768 after lender credit
soobaerodude
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:16 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by soobaerodude »

cogito wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:19 pm Man, decisions... about to close with Better in a week or so, and LoanCabin finally gets back to me (after like 3 weeks). I'm at 2.875 for 30 year fixed, no cost (2200 credits), plus Amex. LoanCabin will do the same for 2.625%. Is that good enough to crash my deal with Better and forfeit the Amex bonus? I've already paid for appraisal and gone through underwriting. I'm thinking I'm probably better off just closing with Better, pocketing the 2500 cash, and gambling on just doing another refi down the road, right? Has anyone had success asking for a float down a week before closing?
Send the loan estimate from LoanCabin to your Loan Processor (not the officer/concierge), and ask them to beat it. There are many reports of Better matching/beating a competing loan estimate days before close
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3328
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:13 pm How long are you going to wait between #2 and #3? Do they have to run credit again even?
About 10 days. I will be applying at multiple places, so yes, a new credit hit. The 20 inquiries on my report so far dropped me from 820 to 811, so I should be fine with another round of about 10 inquiries.
soobaerodude wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:23 pm
cogito wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:19 pm Man, decisions... about to close with Better in a week or so, and LoanCabin finally gets back to me (after like 3 weeks). I'm at 2.875 for 30 year fixed, no cost (2200 credits), plus Amex. LoanCabin will do the same for 2.625%. Is that good enough to crash my deal with Better and forfeit the Amex bonus? I've already paid for appraisal and gone through underwriting. I'm thinking I'm probably better off just closing with Better, pocketing the 2500 cash, and gambling on just doing another refi down the road, right? Has anyone had success asking for a float down a week before closing?
Send the loan estimate from LoanCabin to your Loan Processor (not the officer/concierge), and ask them to beat it. There are many reports of Better matching/beating a competing loan estimate days before close
This. And if they don’t beat it, consider closing with Better anyway and then letting Loan Cabin proceed. You locked your rate with LC, right?
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 3726
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:31 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:13 pm How long are you going to wait between #2 and #3? Do they have to run credit again even?
About 10 days. I will be applying at multiple places, so yes, a new credit hit. The 20 inquiries on my report so far dropped me from 820 to 811, so I should be fine with another round of about 10 inquiries.
Haha. My oddly credit went up between my 1st and 2nd refi, but I did wait 2 months in between. Although, I think it does not matter once you are over 800 already.
tuttibs
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:17 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tuttibs »

Sorry guys, another refinance question, I'm kind of new to the Boggle heads world, hopefully I didn't break any rules.

I have a question on the best way to refinance in my situation since i'm trying to get some cheap money for a renovation.

House is worth $750-800k, I have 30 year fixed right now with remaining loan balance of $506k. I'm about 3.5 years into the 30 at a rate of 3.5%

My current bank (Wells Fargo) is crap and HELOC rate was high.

I can now refinance with a conforming / conventional loan since my loan balance is <510k. So I'm getting around 2.8% 30 year fixed no points, about $1000 loan fee. Costco is giving me 2.88% and only $350 loan fee. I don't typically add in the other costs which are mostly fixed regardless of bank (appraisal, pre paids, escrow fees, title) to keep apples to apples comparison.

Now the kicker is we are planning a $200k renovation. Options I have now are
Pay for reno out of pocket (but I have other investments I can use that money for) then refi later at higher appraised value. Just can't count on today's low rates
Spoke to a bank about a renovation loan. I can still refi, but they will approximate the appraised value after the reno is done and I can still lock in today's rates. Rates a little higher than conventional.
Refi now at conventional rates and just pay for reno out of pocket.

Any other things you guys would suggest?

Thank you!
cogito
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:12 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by cogito »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:31 pm
This. And if they don’t beat it, consider closing with Better anyway and then letting Loan Cabin proceed. You locked your rate with LC, right?
Its my first refinance, so I'm a little uneasy about trying to do two back-to-back so quickly! I worry, maybe irrationally, that my taxes or escrow or mortgage payments will get screwed up, or something. Although, LoanCabin does provide a 60 day lock, so probably that would give me enough time to refinance with them after closing with Better (and presumably wait for better to sell my refinance off).
bgh11
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:58 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:24 pm
bgh11 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:42 pm Do all or most lenders lock in the entire rate tables and allow borrowers to move around? Thanks.
I honestly don’t know. Part of it is the person you are asking actually understanding your question properly. loanDepot for instance told me that no, they do not lock the entire rate table and let me switch after I’ve locked. But when I said I was going to go elsewhere because of higher credits on the higher rate, the loan offer said that for his loan, that same rate had $XYZ in credits.

To me, that sounds like what I wanted. However, maybe he was talking about how he can make the case for changing things to save the loan? Watermark told me similarly that I’m only locking that specific rate, but then had no qualms moving me up 0.125% to have higher credits. So it is anyone’s guess.

Personally, I like the flexibility that locking the whole rate table provides. It makes it easier to shop across various options. But that is probably exactly why the lenders don’t want me to have that option! Lol
Interestingly when i talked to loanDepot, the LO was telling me how wonderful they are that they lock in the entire rate sheet unless other lenders
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3328
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

cogito wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:54 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:31 pm
This. And if they don’t beat it, consider closing with Better anyway and then letting Loan Cabin proceed. You locked your rate with LC, right?
Its my first refinance, so I'm a little uneasy about trying to do two back-to-back so quickly! I worry, maybe irrationally, that my taxes or escrow or mortgage payments will get screwed up, or something. Although, LoanCabin does provide a 60 day lock, so probably that would give me enough time to refinance with them after closing with Better (and presumably wait for better to sell my refinance off).
If you are uneasy about refinancing, I would then suggest closing with Better since you are almost done. Generally speaking, refinancing is a nerve-wracking experience. I've done it many times and I'm an ideal candidate (low LTV, high credit score, plenty of easily verifying assets for reserves, steady W2), but I still feel anxiety during the process. If you are anything like that, while 0.25% is a nice savings over the life of the loan, the money you get up front pays for that interest for many months and you can put the experience behind you. Then you can calmly decide whether to proceed with Loan Cabin or not even bother.
Shaka
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:04 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Shaka »

JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:16 am
Shaka wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:57 am Just locked with LenderFi this morning
* Townhome in CA
* $310,000 mortgage
* 30 year fixed @ 2.625%
* Appraisal waived
* A+B+C = $1251
* Lender credit: $950

Coming down from 3.5%, so 2.625% is quite nice.
Are you coming out of pocket for the $300, and prepaids and escrow?
Yes, I am paying all that out of pocket. No escrow fees as I pay those items separately.

A = $0 (origination charges)
B = $351 (services you cannot shop for)
C = $900 (escrow fee, title insurance)
E = $204 (recording fees, transfer taxes)
F = $509 (prepaids)
G = $0 (escrow)
H = $0 (other)
D = A+B+C = $1251
I = E+F+G+H = $713
D+I = $1964
TOTAL COST = D+I-lender credit = $1964-$950 = $1014
Shaka
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:04 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Shaka »

ChiKid24 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:41 am
Shaka wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:57 am Just locked with LenderFi this morning
* Townhome in CA
* $310,000 mortgage
* 30 year fixed @ 2.625%
* Appraisal waived
* A+B+C = $1251
* Lender credit: $950

Coming down from 3.5%, so 2.625% is quite nice.
Congrats. That's a great rate!
Thanks! I'm happy with it. We'll see how the rest of the process goes.
cogito
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:12 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by cogito »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:07 pm

If you are uneasy about refinancing, I would then suggest closing with Better since you are almost done. Generally speaking, refinancing is a nerve-wracking experience. I've done it many times and I'm an ideal candidate (low LTV, high credit score, plenty of easily verifying assets for reserves, steady W2), but I still feel anxiety during the process. If you are anything like that, while 0.25% is a nice savings over the life of the loan, the money you get up front pays for that interest for many months and you can put the experience behind you. Then you can calmly decide whether to proceed with Loan Cabin or not even bother.
Thanks for the confirmation, that's what my gut was saying. I still plan to refinance again shortly after if rates continue to plummet. :sharebeer
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3328
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

cogito wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:10 pm Thanks for the confirmation, that's what my gut was saying. I still plan to refinance again shortly after if rates continue to plummet. :sharebeer
No problem. I'm one of those weirdos around Bogleheads. I don't advocate "pay off your mortgage" and I don't advocate "invest instead of paying extra on your mortgage". I advocate "do what makes you feel comfortable, b/c doing something that makes you fall off the bandwagon is what will really cost you, not whether you paid the mortgage faster or not." The same mentality applies to refinancing. The emotional benefit of not being stress carries significant value in my book.
Katz
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:06 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Katz »

Anyone have experience with Figure Lending LLC out of Reno, NV? www.figure.com

They've got the best rate (2.875% on 30-yr fixed) for my $187k refinance with a zero origination fee and zero points.

All of the other lenders I've looked at for the 30-year fixed are over 3 and most around 3.25%.
KATNYC
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:34 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by KATNYC »

This has been an interesting process. I contacted multiple brokers and it's been like pulling teeth to get some of them to share the lowest rates.

I was clear about the refinance for $169K, value $600K, and credit score >800, 30 year fixed in NYC.
One came back with 2.875% and when I reminded him about the 2.5% rate on his website (after I entered my information for customized rates) he said the 2.5% rate was available. Then, when I said I was going with a different company who found a 2.375% rate (with 1 point), he suddenly had that rate available too with a point.

I'm glad to know this upfront though since it helped with the decision on who to use.
One broker told me they hadn't seen a 2.375% rate without 1.5 - 2 points and they are "one of the "lowest in the industry."
bgh11
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:58 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

tuttibs wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:41 pm Sorry guys, another refinance question, I'm kind of new to the Boggle heads world, hopefully I didn't break any rules.

I have a question on the best way to refinance in my situation since i'm trying to get some cheap money for a renovation.

House is worth $750-800k, I have 30 year fixed right now with remaining loan balance of $506k. I'm about 3.5 years into the 30 at a rate of 3.5%

My current bank (Wells Fargo) is crap and HELOC rate was high.

I can now refinance with a conforming / conventional loan since my loan balance is <510k. So I'm getting around 2.8% 30 year fixed no points, about $1000 loan fee. Costco is giving me 2.88% and only $350 loan fee. I don't typically add in the other costs which are mostly fixed regardless of bank (appraisal, pre paids, escrow fees, title) to keep apples to apples comparison.

Now the kicker is we are planning a $200k renovation. Options I have now are
Pay for reno out of pocket (but I have other investments I can use that money for) then refi later at higher appraised value. Just can't count on today's low rates
Spoke to a bank about a renovation loan. I can still refi, but they will approximate the appraised value after the reno is done and I can still lock in today's rates. Rates a little higher than conventional.
Refi now at conventional rates and just pay for reno out of pocket.

Any other things you guys would suggest?

Thank you!
I am not an expert here. Cash out refi crossed my mind, have you inquired about that? Use the extra cash for your renovation? Wait until the refi is done before applying for permit/starting renovation
Qw1221wq
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:54 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Qw1221wq »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:21 pm
cogito wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:10 pm Thanks for the confirmation, that's what my gut was saying. I still plan to refinance again shortly after if rates continue to plummet. :sharebeer
No problem. I'm one of those weirdos around Bogleheads. I don't advocate "pay off your mortgage" and I don't advocate "invest instead of paying extra on your mortgage". I advocate "do what makes you feel comfortable, b/c doing something that makes you fall off the bandwagon is what will really cost you, not whether you paid the mortgage faster or not." The same mentality applies to refinancing. The emotional benefit of not being stress carries significant value in my book.
Putting financial value on emotional benefit is irrational. Numbers don't lie. People do. I advocate always doing what the numbers tell you. There is only one correct answer in math.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3328
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Qw1221wq wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:02 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:21 pm
cogito wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:10 pm Thanks for the confirmation, that's what my gut was saying. I still plan to refinance again shortly after if rates continue to plummet. :sharebeer
No problem. I'm one of those weirdos around Bogleheads. I don't advocate "pay off your mortgage" and I don't advocate "invest instead of paying extra on your mortgage". I advocate "do what makes you feel comfortable, b/c doing something that makes you fall off the bandwagon is what will really cost you, not whether you paid the mortgage faster or not." The same mentality applies to refinancing. The emotional benefit of not being stress carries significant value in my book.
Putting financial value on emotional benefit is irrational. Numbers don't lie. People do. I advocate always doing what the numbers tell you. There is only one correct answer in math.
I don't want to get into the pay off mortgage early vs. invest more debate here, it has been done ad nauseam in multiple threads. But if you are a Boglehead follower, have addressed all the major points of your financial life (including maxing out retirement savings, access to funds for emergencies, etc., no/limited non-mortgage debt, etc.), and are on the "stay to course" path for the next few decades, the difference between paying off your mortgage early or investing more won't make a meaningful difference in your life. If a person sleeps better at night without the mortgage, again assuming they have the rest of their financial life in order, by all means, pay off the mortgage. Similar, if someone sleeps well with a 60/40 portfolio but stresses out over a 70/30 portfolio, by all means, have a 60/40.

For reference, I am actually increasing my mortgage balance to invest more. I had no and continue to have no plans to pay off my mortgage early. But I won't fault someone who has isn't as numbers-driven as we are.

And that's the end of my part in that discussion so as to hopefully stay on refinance topic. :)
InvestDoc
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:54 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestDoc »

soobaerodude wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:22 pm
InvestDoc wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:09 pm
bgh11 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:41 pm
InvestDoc wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:20 pm Has anyone used or heard of CF bank? I heard about them from someone on another forum but their name hasn't popped up anywhere else. And unfortunately "CF" is too few letters to use the search function. Anyway, I got a great quote from them but wanted some info on their customer service, loan processing, follow through, etc. if anyone else has used them.
never heard. Not sure how real these reviews are: https://www.zillow.com/lender-profile/CFBank/
https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/reviews/cfbank/
Do you mind sharing your quote?

This is for a high balance conforming 30 year fixed loan in California. He gave me several options depending on how many points (or credit) I wanted.
3.25% $1839 closing costs + $3528 lender credit (net -$1689)
3.125% $1839 closing cost + $2935 lender credit (net -$1096)
3.0% $1839 closing cost + $2096 lender credit (net -$257)
2.875% $1839 closing cost + $1210 lender credit (net +$629)
2.75% $1839 closing cost + $1174 charge (net +$3013)

I assume the credits/charges are based on +/- points but the loan quote doesn't phrase it in terms of points but actual numbers.
These rates don't seem that great for a high conforming 30 year loan in Ca, but it would depend on your LTV. I've been shopping around for $760k 65% LTV, and have seen 2.625% with net -$768 after lender credit
I agree. I found something better since posting this.
cb474
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:32 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by cb474 »

Has anyone actually closed with Watermark? I'm wondering what people's experiences have been like with them after completing and signing the application and saying you want to move forward.

What about other lenders? Good experiences? Bad experiences?
blackwhisker
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:32 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by blackwhisker »

Can someone tell me what A,B,C,D,E mean? for example, "30yr A+B+C+E"?
JSDNJ
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JSDNJ »

Thoughts on these two offers? Both 30 year fixed.

Offer 1

2.875%
$0 origination fee
$4158 in lender credits

Offer 2

2.99%
$1595 application fee
$6068 in credits
(Net credit of $4473)

Didn't include B-G as they will be equal presumably.
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 3726
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

blackwhisker wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:16 pm Can someone tell me what A,B,C,D,E mean? for example, "30yr A+B+C+E"?
A. Origination Charges
B. Services You Cannot Shop For
C. Services You Can Shop For
D. TOTAL LOAN COSTS (A + B + C)
E. Taxes and Other Government Fees
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 3726
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:17 pm Thoughts on these two offers? Both 30 year fixed.

Offer 1

2.875%
$0 origination fee
$4158 in lender credits

Offer 2

2.99%
$1595 application fee
$6068 in credits
(Net credit of $4473)

Didn't include B-G as they will be equal presumably.
For the 2.875%, how much will that one cost you (excluding prepaids and escrows).
JSDNJ
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JSDNJ »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:20 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:17 pm Thoughts on these two offers? Both 30 year fixed.

Offer 1

2.875%
$0 origination fee
$4158 in lender credits

Offer 2

2.99%
$1595 application fee
$6068 in credits
(Net credit of $4473)

Didn't include B-G as they will be equal presumably.
For the 2.875%, how much will that one cost you (excluding prepaids and escrows).
B, C and E will total about $2k, and should be the same on both thats why I didn't include them, but without escrow and prepaids the
the credits exceed the costs.

I'm not sure why everyone includes B-G in this thread. Seems to me that A and lender credits should be the only pertinent numbers when comparing. I plan to use the same title company with whichever loan I go with.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3328
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:17 pm Thoughts on these two offers? Both 30 year fixed.

Offer 1

2.875%
$0 origination fee
$4158 in lender credits

Offer 2

2.99%
$1595 application fee
$6068 in credits
(Net credit of $4473)

Didn't include B-G as they will be equal presumably.
Assuming you can find a better provider for C if Offer 1 is charging more than Offer 2 there (or more than you can just find), I’d go with offer 1. The net is higher with Offer 2, but the application fee is non-refundable if another lender comes and gives you a better offer before you close. That would be $1,600 you’d never see again.
JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:27 pm I'm not sure why everyone includes B-G in this thread. Seems to me that A and lender credits should be the only pertinent numbers when comparing. I plan to use the same title company with whichever loan I go with.
B can vary between lenders, though usually not by much. Including C and E is to calculate whether lender credits offset those costs. F and G shouldn’t be a consideration.
Last edited by BrandonBogle on Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 3726
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:27 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:20 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:17 pm Thoughts on these two offers? Both 30 year fixed.

Offer 1

2.875%
$0 origination fee
$4158 in lender credits

Offer 2

2.99%
$1595 application fee
$6068 in credits
(Net credit of $4473)

Didn't include B-G as they will be equal presumably.
For the 2.875%, how much will that one cost you (excluding prepaids and escrows).
B, C and E will total about $2k, and should be the same on both thats why I didn't include them, but without escrow and prepaids the
the credits exceed the costs.

I'm not sure why everyone includes B-G in this thread. Seems to me that A and lender credits should be the only pertinent numbers when comparing. I plan to use the same title company with whichever loan I go with.

Actually, when I am comparing options, I just look at total costs (D + E - lender's credit) excluding F (prepaids) and G (escrow). I feel like that is the better comparison.
JSDNJ
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JSDNJ »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:29 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:17 pm Thoughts on these two offers? Both 30 year fixed.

Offer 1

2.875%
$0 origination fee
$4158 in lender credits

Offer 2

2.99%
$1595 application fee
$6068 in credits
(Net credit of $4473)

Didn't include B-G as they will be equal presumably.
Assuming you can find a better provider for C if Offer 1 is charging more than Offer 2 there (or more than you can just find), I’d go with offer 1. The net is higher with Offer 2, but the application fee is non-refundable if another lender comes and gives you a better offer before you close. That would be $1,600 you’d never see again.
JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:27 pm I'm not sure why everyone includes B-G in this thread. Seems to me that A and lender credits should be the only pertinent numbers when comparing. I plan to use the same title company with whichever loan I go with.
B can vary between lenders, though usually not by much. Including C and E is to calculate whether lender credits offset those costs. F and G shouldn’t be a consideration.
I don't have to come out of pocket for the application fee. It's just an origination charge that gets added to the total loan cost and then wiped out by the credit.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 3328
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:32 pm I don't have to come out of pocket for the application fee. It's just an origination charge that gets added to the total loan cost and then wiped out by the credit.
That’s great. Usually when a lender chargers an app fee, they require that before they will lock your rate. If you don’t have to pay that until closing, then that works in your favor.
JSDNJ
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JSDNJ »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:30 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:27 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:20 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:17 pm Thoughts on these two offers? Both 30 year fixed.

Offer 1

2.875%
$0 origination fee
$4158 in lender credits

Offer 2

2.99%
$1595 application fee
$6068 in credits
(Net credit of $4473)

Didn't include B-G as they will be equal presumably.
For the 2.875%, how much will that one cost you (excluding prepaids and escrows).
B, C and E will total about $2k, and should be the same on both thats why I didn't include them, but without escrow and prepaids the
the credits exceed the costs.

I'm not sure why everyone includes B-G in this thread. Seems to me that A and lender credits should be the only pertinent numbers when comparing. I plan to use the same title company with whichever loan I go with.

Actually, when I am comparing options, I just look at total costs (D + E - lender's credit) excluding F (prepaids) and G (escrow). I feel like that is the better comparison.
Yea, but if you're comparing different lenders, C shouldnt matter because those costs can be made the same in each loan by choosing your title company. If I did that with these loans I am considering it wouldnt be fair because one of them quoted way higher title fees which I know arent going to apply.
JSDNJ
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JSDNJ »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:33 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:32 pm I don't have to come out of pocket for the application fee. It's just an origination charge that gets added to the total loan cost and then wiped out by the credit.
That’s great. Usually when a lender chargers an app fee, they require that before they will lock your rate. If you don’t have to pay that until closing, then that works in your favor.
Yea, I just had to pay a nominal fee to lock. I guess they are both good offers it just comes down to whether or not I want to pay a couple hundred extra bucks to get the 2.875
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 3726
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:34 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:30 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:27 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:20 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:17 pm Thoughts on these two offers? Both 30 year fixed.

Offer 1

2.875%
$0 origination fee
$4158 in lender credits

Offer 2

2.99%
$1595 application fee
$6068 in credits
(Net credit of $4473)

Didn't include B-G as they will be equal presumably.
For the 2.875%, how much will that one cost you (excluding prepaids and escrows).
B, C and E will total about $2k, and should be the same on both thats why I didn't include them, but without escrow and prepaids the
the credits exceed the costs.

I'm not sure why everyone includes B-G in this thread. Seems to me that A and lender credits should be the only pertinent numbers when comparing. I plan to use the same title company with whichever loan I go with.

Actually, when I am comparing options, I just look at total costs (D + E - lender's credit) excluding F (prepaids) and G (escrow). I feel like that is the better comparison.
Yea, but if you're comparing different lenders, C shouldnt matter because those costs can be made the same in each loan by choosing your title company. If I did that with these loans I am considering it wouldnt be fair because one of them quoted way higher title fees which I know arent going to apply.
Sure, if you have a go to title company to use. Do any of them have options to go even lower with less credits? The rates both seem high, as others (including myself) have gotten lower rates recently (at not cost).
JSDNJ
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:17 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JSDNJ »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:37 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:34 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:30 pm
JSDNJ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:27 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:20 pm

For the 2.875%, how much will that one cost you (excluding prepaids and escrows).
B, C and E will total about $2k, and should be the same on both thats why I didn't include them, but without escrow and prepaids the
the credits exceed the costs.

I'm not sure why everyone includes B-G in this thread. Seems to me that A and lender credits should be the only pertinent numbers when comparing. I plan to use the same title company with whichever loan I go with.

Actually, when I am comparing options, I just look at total costs (D + E - lender's credit) excluding F (prepaids) and G (escrow). I feel like that is the better comparison.
Yea, but if you're comparing different lenders, C shouldnt matter because those costs can be made the same in each loan by choosing your title company. If I did that with these loans I am considering it wouldnt be fair because one of them quoted way higher title fees which I know arent going to apply.
Sure, if you have a go to title company to use. Do any of them have options to go even lower with less credits? The rates both seem high, as others (including myself) have gotten lower rates recently (at not cost).
Yea I have a title company I have used for several purchases and refis. As far as less credits for lower rate, yes I am sure that is the case. However my goal was to come out of pocket for $0, and to not increase my overall loan amount. If I go with less credits I will have to roll more into my loan this increasing the balance over what it is now and I don't plan to be in this house for the long haul.

I feel like the 2.99 is a good compromise because it lowers my payment, keeps my overall loan balance the same, costs me $0 out of pocket, and I'll get my check for my escrow balance from my previous lender. Unless I am missing something, it feels like being paid to get a lower rate/payment. (I am currently at 3.375) So the 2.99 is 'better' than no cost.

Edit: Another offer is 2.65% but with $2200 in credits. A good offer, but with me wanting to not pay out of pocket, I will have to roll a few grand into my overall loan balance.
Last edited by JSDNJ on Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
blackwhisker
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:32 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by blackwhisker »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:19 pm
blackwhisker wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:16 pm Can someone tell me what A,B,C,D,E mean? for example, "30yr A+B+C+E"?
A. Origination Charges
B. Services You Cannot Shop For
C. Services You Can Shop For
D. TOTAL LOAN COSTS (A + B + C)
E. Taxes and Other Government Fees
Thank you anon_investor!
blackwhisker
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:32 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by blackwhisker »

I thought I was going to fill out an application with WaterMark because they told me over the phone I can get 2.5% for 20 year fixed with almost zero cost.

Then I read the negative reviews about them on yelp:
https://www.yelp.com/biz/watermark-home ... rating_asc

Now I don't feel comfortable to work with them.

If I am okay with not getting the best rate, what are the relatively trustworthy lenders out there that don't cause too much stress in the refi process?
Goal33
Posts: 1504
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

Does LenderFi really have so much business coming in from the backdoor links here and on Slickdeals that they don't need to open up their main website? It's been "closed" for weeks now...
Post Reply