Refinance Mega Thread

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gas_balloon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gas_balloon »

ChiKid24 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:45 pm There was some discussion in this thread many pages ago which linked to some specific rules that Section E costs can't increase (or can only increase a minor amount) from the original loan estimate. Would suggest that if it's manipulated by the lender, it would be overstated in their original estimate rather than understated. So they'd need to compensate with a higher lender credit in the original estimate if they want to be competitive.
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:48 pm Legally, Section E costs cannot be raised after the fact on an LE, absent a material change. Edit to add: For instance, if you didn’t disclose you have a second mortgage on the property and now a subordination of the current second needs to be filed, incurring an extra filing fee from your municipality. So they can vary, but they go down and they will always end up at the same place. So comparing between lenders, feel free to ignore E. However, when comparing whether to refi or not, definitely include E.

Meanwhile, APR doesn’t include Section C, which can vary greatly. Sure, you can shop around for it, but you may not find better pricing that the lender has negotiated with their partner. For instance, Better Settlement Services charges $1,300 for a loan of my size. My local provider charges $1,150. loanDepot’s provider charges $800. Nobody else will get down to that cost for me.

So when comparing between lenders, what I do is use their value for Section C if it is less than $1,150, or my provider’s $1,150 if the Section C cost is higher. This levels the playing feel to make better comparisons. Because I surely make sure I don’t overpay for services if I don’t have to, and you can bet I’m using my local provider for my current refi.
This is really useful - thanks for sharing. I wish bogleheads had a way to pin certain posts in long threads like these - it's valuable information!
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

I don't see any costs for having a notary over to sign the documents on my LenderFi LE ... are these fees not relevant on a refi? This is my first refi, it's always been new purchases for me.
Bleedinggums99
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Bleedinggums99 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:48 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:41 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:24 pm If two lenders are offering the same interest rate, you just compare the sum of A+B+C+E less lender credits to determine which offer is better.
I agree with this. However in practice, section E can also be manipulated. This actually represents the amount you get charged by the government agency to record the transaction. However in practice, I've seen numbers all over the place in initial disclosures from various lenders. Until final closing that section numbers cannot be trusted.

Another way to compare 2 quotes is to compare the APR (not rate). Since APR includes all the upfront cost you'll pay plus the interest rate over the life of loan.
Legally, Section E costs cannot be raised after the fact on an LE, absent a material change. Edit to add: For instance, if you didn’t disclose you have a second mortgage on the property and now a subordination of the current second needs to be filed, incurring an extra filing fee from your municipality. So they can vary, but they go down and they will always end up at the same place. So comparing between lenders, feel free to ignore E. However, when comparing whether to refi or not, definitely include E.

Meanwhile, APR doesn’t include Section C, which can vary greatly. Sure, you can shop around for it, but you may not find better pricing that the lender has negotiated with their partner. For instance, Better Settlement Services charges $1,300 for a loan of my size. My local provider charges $1,150. loanDepot’s provider charges $800. Nobody else will get down to that cost for me.

So when comparing between lenders, what I do is use their value for Section C if it is less than $1,150, or my provider’s $1,150 if the Section C cost is higher. This levels the playing feel to make better comparisons. Because I surely make sure I don’t overpay for services if I don’t have to, and you can bet I’m using my local provider for my current refi.
I wish I knew this. During the negotiation process E magically went down over 100 dollars for me between LE while I kept just looking at the totals and didn’t notice. At closing it went back up. Luckily I got pissed At the end and ended up delaying closing and complaining about all of the terrible customer service I received, pointed this out among other sketchy things that were done or not done like once I gave them the payoff quote they never updated the loan amount to cover it so I was going to have to bring A few thousand more to closing. Thankfully the complaining got me more credits, went from a $150 cost refinance to a 1100 credit refinance. I wonder if it’s because I pointed this out and they wanted me to shut up about it.
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

Goal33 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:03 pm I don't see any costs for having a notary over to sign the documents on my LenderFi LE ... are these fees not relevant on a refi? This is my first refi, it's always been new purchases for me.
Notary fees are likely included in the Section C fees, somewhere in Title. Pretty standard today that there will be a travelling notary so that is already baked into their fees.
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

gas_balloon wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:56 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:45 pm There was some discussion in this thread many pages ago which linked to some specific rules that Section E costs can't increase (or can only increase a minor amount) from the original loan estimate. Would suggest that if it's manipulated by the lender, it would be overstated in their original estimate rather than understated. So they'd need to compensate with a higher lender credit in the original estimate if they want to be competitive.
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:48 pm Legally, Section E costs cannot be raised after the fact on an LE, absent a material change. Edit to add: For instance, if you didn’t disclose you have a second mortgage on the property and now a subordination of the current second needs to be filed, incurring an extra filing fee from your municipality. So they can vary, but they go down and they will always end up at the same place. So comparing between lenders, feel free to ignore E. However, when comparing whether to refi or not, definitely include E.

Meanwhile, APR doesn’t include Section C, which can vary greatly. Sure, you can shop around for it, but you may not find better pricing that the lender has negotiated with their partner. For instance, Better Settlement Services charges $1,300 for a loan of my size. My local provider charges $1,150. loanDepot’s provider charges $800. Nobody else will get down to that cost for me.

So when comparing between lenders, what I do is use their value for Section C if it is less than $1,150, or my provider’s $1,150 if the Section C cost is higher. This levels the playing feel to make better comparisons. Because I surely make sure I don’t overpay for services if I don’t have to, and you can bet I’m using my local provider for my current refi.
This is really useful - thanks for sharing. I wish bogleheads had a way to pin certain posts in long threads like these - it's valuable information!
Here a good link that covers fees and costs and what can and cannot change. Maybe bookmark the page for future reference: https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfp ... %20service
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gas_balloon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gas_balloon »

ChiKid24 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:29 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:56 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:45 pm There was some discussion in this thread many pages ago which linked to some specific rules that Section E costs can't increase (or can only increase a minor amount) from the original loan estimate. Would suggest that if it's manipulated by the lender, it would be overstated in their original estimate rather than understated. So they'd need to compensate with a higher lender credit in the original estimate if they want to be competitive.
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:48 pm Legally, Section E costs cannot be raised after the fact on an LE, absent a material change. Edit to add: For instance, if you didn’t disclose you have a second mortgage on the property and now a subordination of the current second needs to be filed, incurring an extra filing fee from your municipality. So they can vary, but they go down and they will always end up at the same place. So comparing between lenders, feel free to ignore E. However, when comparing whether to refi or not, definitely include E.

Meanwhile, APR doesn’t include Section C, which can vary greatly. Sure, you can shop around for it, but you may not find better pricing that the lender has negotiated with their partner. For instance, Better Settlement Services charges $1,300 for a loan of my size. My local provider charges $1,150. loanDepot’s provider charges $800. Nobody else will get down to that cost for me.

So when comparing between lenders, what I do is use their value for Section C if it is less than $1,150, or my provider’s $1,150 if the Section C cost is higher. This levels the playing feel to make better comparisons. Because I surely make sure I don’t overpay for services if I don’t have to, and you can bet I’m using my local provider for my current refi.
This is really useful - thanks for sharing. I wish bogleheads had a way to pin certain posts in long threads like these - it's valuable information!
Here a good link that covers fees and costs and what can and cannot change. Maybe bookmark the page for future reference: https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfp ... %20service
Thanks. One of the "Change of circumstances" that can increase the cost in section E by any amount is:
"The appraisal on the home you want to buy came in higher or lower than expected".

This *always* happens right - I mean no one is going to accurately estimate what the appraisal comes to until the appraiser produces the report. Does this mean that most of the time a lender can increase section E and use this as a scapegoat/loophole?
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

gas_balloon wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:36 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:29 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:56 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:45 pm There was some discussion in this thread many pages ago which linked to some specific rules that Section E costs can't increase (or can only increase a minor amount) from the original loan estimate. Would suggest that if it's manipulated by the lender, it would be overstated in their original estimate rather than understated. So they'd need to compensate with a higher lender credit in the original estimate if they want to be competitive.
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:48 pm Legally, Section E costs cannot be raised after the fact on an LE, absent a material change. Edit to add: For instance, if you didn’t disclose you have a second mortgage on the property and now a subordination of the current second needs to be filed, incurring an extra filing fee from your municipality. So they can vary, but they go down and they will always end up at the same place. So comparing between lenders, feel free to ignore E. However, when comparing whether to refi or not, definitely include E.

Meanwhile, APR doesn’t include Section C, which can vary greatly. Sure, you can shop around for it, but you may not find better pricing that the lender has negotiated with their partner. For instance, Better Settlement Services charges $1,300 for a loan of my size. My local provider charges $1,150. loanDepot’s provider charges $800. Nobody else will get down to that cost for me.

So when comparing between lenders, what I do is use their value for Section C if it is less than $1,150, or my provider’s $1,150 if the Section C cost is higher. This levels the playing feel to make better comparisons. Because I surely make sure I don’t overpay for services if I don’t have to, and you can bet I’m using my local provider for my current refi.
This is really useful - thanks for sharing. I wish bogleheads had a way to pin certain posts in long threads like these - it's valuable information!
Here a good link that covers fees and costs and what can and cannot change. Maybe bookmark the page for future reference: https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfp ... %20service
Thanks. One of the "Change of circumstances" that can increase the cost in section E by any amount is:
"The appraisal on the home you want to buy came in higher or lower than expected".

This *always* happens right - I mean no one is going to accurately estimate what the appraisal comes to until the appraiser produces the report. Does this mean that most of the time a lender can increase section E and use this as a scapegoat/loophole?
I suppose it's possible, but that lender would quickly get a bad reputation. Loan costs in sections B, C and E are usually fixed and/or vary by the loan value not the appraisal value. What could change if an appraisal comes in lower (or higher) is the interest rate and/or lender credit. That's because there are various pricing cutoffs based on the property LTV. Typically there is a decent amount of cushion on these ranges, meaning the appraisal would need to be meaningfully different to justify a change of circumstances.
Shikoku
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Shikoku »

Here is my "feel good" calculation that motivates me to refinance. Hopefully, I will be able to complete my third refinancing since last December within the next few months at 2.5% rate. This will result in $354 monthly saving from mortgage payment.

I have access to a TIAA Traditional tax-sheltered account which presently earns 3.21% with a guaranteed minimum rate of 3.00%. Let say I add $354/month to the account for the next 29 years. A quick calculation shows that theoretically I will have $202K in the account in the end. All the work involved in three refinancing probably not going to take more than 20 hours in the worst case. This is equivalent to $10K reward in 2049 for every hour of work I am doing for refinancing now! Am I missing anything?
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

ChiKid24 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:25 pm
Goal33 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:03 pm I don't see any costs for having a notary over to sign the documents on my LenderFi LE ... are these fees not relevant on a refi? This is my first refi, it's always been new purchases for me.
Notary fees are likely included in the Section C fees, somewhere in Title. Pretty standard today that there will be a travelling notary so that is already baked into their fees.
Section C for me:

C. Services You Can Shop For - $1,125
Title - Escrow Fee $425
Title - Lender's Title Insurance $700

I assume it's baked into that fee. I do have a lender credit that offsets all these costs, but that is a fixed $ amount, so if these went up, that would cause my costs to go up, I assume.
Soares1234
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Soares1234 »

VCC wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:55 pm FYI, for those of you with student loans, Fannie Mae allows lenders to offer cash out refis at the lower non cash out refi rate if the cash out is used to directly pay off the student loans. Overall cash out is still limited to 80% LTV.
Now that’s a good tip!
Soares1234
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Soares1234 »

XtremeSki2001 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:50 am
texascrane wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:50 pm Thanks to this thread I applied with LenderFi. I’m in Texas and locked in a 30 year at 2.375 with no points.
I was extend this rate yesterday, too. I'm in Pennsylvania. LenderFi seems to do things a little different than others ... no LE yet, I had to upload several documents (W2, Mortgage Statement, etc.). Is this what you had to do, too? When did you get the LE details? This is the best rate I've been extended thus far.
Loan amount, LTV , credit score
K-knows
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by K-knows »

ZMonet wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:13 am Could use some help sorting through an offer I got from Watermark.

I currently am in a 15 year loan (7 years left) at 2.75%. $235k remaining. About 35% LTV.

Watermark is offering 10 years fixed/no points/2.25% and a $3,000 lender credit.

Origination-$1499 (A on the LE)
Credit/flood-$37 (B on the LE)
Appraisal-$550 (if needed) (B on the LE)
Title- $1050 (C on the LE)

Is my understanding correct that the lender credit would offset all but $86? Is Watermark saying an appraisal might not be needed because of my LTV? Am I missing some line items that I should ask about?

If I follow the same payout schedule that I currently have (7 years) then it looks like I would save approximately $5,500 over the 7 years. Does that sound about right?
FYI Watermark quoted me today the following on a refi of my home in Virginia on a 10 year loan with LTV of 30%. I'm hoping they will waive the appraisal.

Origination-$1499 (A on the LE)
Credit/flood-$37 (B on the LE)
Appraisal-$550 (if needed) (B on the LE)
Title-$1260 (C on the LE)

2.375% / 10 year fixed / lender credit $2500
NDS
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by NDS »

K-knows wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:04 pm
ZMonet wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:13 am Could use some help sorting through an offer I got from Watermark.

I currently am in a 15 year loan (7 years left) at 2.75%. $235k remaining. About 35% LTV.

Watermark is offering 10 years fixed/no points/2.25% and a $3,000 lender credit.

Origination-$1499 (A on the LE)
Credit/flood-$37 (B on the LE)
Appraisal-$550 (if needed) (B on the LE)
Title- $1050 (C on the LE)

Is my understanding correct that the lender credit would offset all but $86? Is Watermark saying an appraisal might not be needed because of my LTV? Am I missing some line items that I should ask about?

If I follow the same payout schedule that I currently have (7 years) then it looks like I would save approximately $5,500 over the 7 years. Does that sound about right?
FYI Watermark quoted me today the following on a refi of my home in Virginia on a 10 year loan with LTV of 30%. I'm hoping they will waive the appraisal.

Origination-$1499 (A on the LE)
Credit/flood-$37 (B on the LE)
Appraisal-$550 (if needed) (B on the LE)
Title-$1260 (C on the LE)

2.375% / 10 year fixed / lender credit $2500
Were you able to get the LE from Watermark without having to complete a full app, submit W2s etc?
Soares1234
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Soares1234 »

calabel wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:12 pm
Slama40 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:49 am Wow, that seems like a great quote. Can you give the investment property details? I couldn't get a quote for an investment property refinance (4-plex or duplex).
SFH with purchase price around 300, rate is from a local brick and mortar bank
What was your downpayment?
totallynotsure
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by totallynotsure »

rate review request

Better Mortgage 30-year fixed

$750K purchase price
15% down
3.375% interest
$128,991 est. closing costs includes:
$2,945 points (i am requesting this be removed)
$1,884 attorney and misc. fees
$5,378 title-related fees

decent? terrible?
K-knows
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Location: Yorktown, VA

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by K-knows »

NDS wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:21 pm
K-knows wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:04 pm
FYI Watermark quoted me today the following on a refi of my home in Virginia on a 10 year loan with LTV of 30%. I'm hoping they will waive the appraisal.

Origination-$1499 (A on the LE)
Credit/flood-$37 (B on the LE)
Appraisal-$550 (if needed) (B on the LE)
Title-$1260 (C on the LE)

2.375% / 10 year fixed / lender credit $2500
Were you able to get the LE from Watermark without having to complete a full app, submit W2s etc?
Corresponded by email. Questions below. Answer by email as quoted. Nothing official.

Current rate/current term
Loan balance 1st
Loan balance 2nd
Goal: reduce rate, shorter term, cash out
If yes, what term/how much cash
Value of home
Type of property - Single Family, condo
Approx Credit Scores
Do you have an escrow account
How many homes do you own (free and clear included)
rajeshlh
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by rajeshlh »

rajeshlh wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:46 am
Bandit390 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:24 am
Eric76 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:43 pm I locked with LenderFi a couple of weeks ago at 2.75% with a $2200 lender credit. Looking at about $1600 in closing costs (not including pre-paids and escrow). This is apparently a pretty mediocre deal right now. Can I renegotiate with them on an already locked rate, or do I need to let the lock expire and start over? I was advised my loan just went to processing today.
I locked with them a while back at 2.875% no cost closing. I'm closing this friday and plan to go through with it. I'm taking what I can get and deal with a lower rate down the road. This is my second refinance this year. I went from 4.25% --> 3.5% -->2.875%
I am in same situation with rates falling. Locked at 2.75 no cost on July 27 but now seeing ppl get 2.5% for the same scenario. I have requested the loan processor to atleast get me 2.625%...still waiting to hear back on that.
LenderFi came back saying they cannot lower the rate as today the rates are worse for my scenario. Either I cancel or proceed with them are my options.
MrJedi
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

The great thing about no cost is you can just go ahead and close and then refinance again (if the opportunity is out there) without worrying about wasting money on true closing costs. Just get it done and don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
exarkun
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by exarkun »

rajeshlh wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:44 pm
rajeshlh wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:46 am
Bandit390 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:24 am
Eric76 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:43 pm I locked with LenderFi a couple of weeks ago at 2.75% with a $2200 lender credit. Looking at about $1600 in closing costs (not including pre-paids and escrow). This is apparently a pretty mediocre deal right now. Can I renegotiate with them on an already locked rate, or do I need to let the lock expire and start over? I was advised my loan just went to processing today.
I locked with them a while back at 2.875% no cost closing. I'm closing this friday and plan to go through with it. I'm taking what I can get and deal with a lower rate down the road. This is my second refinance this year. I went from 4.25% --> 3.5% -->2.875%
I am in same situation with rates falling. Locked at 2.75 no cost on July 27 but now seeing ppl get 2.5% for the same scenario. I have requested the loan processor to atleast get me 2.625%...still waiting to hear back on that.
LenderFi came back saying they cannot lower the rate as today the rates are worse for my scenario. Either I cancel or proceed with them are my options.
I'm kind of curious how that can be. See July 27 vs today: http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortga ... daily.aspx
Niceperson77
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Niceperson77 »

Hello everyone — here is what I received from Mutual of Omaha....$140k loan @ 2.6% with 1 point. I believe the guy said $440ish/month payment. I currently have a 15 yr $62k HELOC at 5.7% ($550/month) with Suntrust that I'll be using the money to pay off.

I spent all day trying to find rates but the best I could find was Omaha at 2.6% and Amerisave VA loan at 2.5% with $4,000 closing cost.

Should I lock in with Mutual of Omaha tomorrow or check somewhere else? I'm in NC so many of the popular places like Loan Cabin don't work here. LenderFi said they only do refinance with no cash out (think he said $200k+). Box Loans said they are at 500% capacity and not taking new loans.

Where else should I look? This is my first refi. 800 credit score.

NKBC (through Costco) is at 3% with $3k in fees
Owning is CA only
Rate Rabbit - not NC
PenFed 3.7% no fees
Loan Depot - CA only

Still waiting on Better and Watermark to get back
Eric76
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Eric76 »

Cash is King wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:12 am
Bandit390 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:24 am
Eric76 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:43 pm I locked with LenderFi a couple of weeks ago at 2.75% with a $2200 lender credit. Looking at about $1600 in closing costs (not including pre-paids and escrow). This is apparently a pretty mediocre deal right now. Can I renegotiate with them on an already locked rate, or do I need to let the lock expire and start over? I was advised my loan just went to processing today.
I locked with them a while back at 2.875% no cost closing. I'm closing this friday and plan to go through with it. I'm taking what I can get and deal with a lower rate down the road. This is my second refinance this year. I went from 4.25% --> 3.5% -->2.875%
Eric,
It never hurts to ask. The worst they can say is no. You can cancel your refinance today and you have three days after you close to cancel. I would suggest you try and get Lenderfi to give you a true no cost but that's your call.
I'm going to ask once I hear from the processor. I'm curious if anybody has had luck with this approach.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Niceperson77 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:02 pm Hello everyone — here is what I received from Mutual of Omaha....$140k loan @ 2.6% with 1 point. I believe the guy said $440ish/month payment. I currently have a 15 yr $62k HELOC at 5.7% ($550/month) with Suntrust that I'll be using the money to pay off.

I spent all day trying to find rates but the best I could find was Omaha at 2.6% and Amerisave VA loan at 2.5% with $4,000 closing cost.

Should I lock in with Mutual of Omaha tomorrow or check somewhere else? I'm in NC so many of the popular places like Loan Cabin don't work here. LenderFi said they only do refinance with no cash out (think he said $200k+). Box Loans said they are at 500% capacity and not taking new loans.
It is hard to answer this question without knowing the fees Mutual of Omaha is charging in addition to 1 point. That 1 point alone is $1,400 and in NC for that loan size, you probably are looking at another $1,250 or so for Sections B + C + E if you don't need an appraisal (add another $500 if you do). However, they may still have an origination fee too.

Similarly, with Amerisave, is that $4k in closing costs in Sections A + B + C + E ?

Also, what is MoO's par rate (zero points)? Probably 2.75% or 2.875% at no points, which IMO would be worth taking vs. paying that extra point. The good news is that if the costs are reasonable, the rate is good for a cash-out refi.
mcdb84
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mcdb84 »

Hey guys,

Just locked in a 2.5% conventional 30 year fixed with Owning.com.

Since I have over 50% equity, they didn't charge me the 0.25% origination charge.

Absolutely no closing costs at all: No origination, No title charges, No recording charges. They gave me lender credit of $1104.00 to cover all costs.

Only costs for me is prepaid interest of 15 days, which total $406.00

I was in shock that this was completely free! I actually am refinancing from a VA 30 year fixed, which I closed back in May 2020, into this conventional loan and opted to not escrow my taxes and insurance.

Total loan amount is $389400.00
Qw1221wq
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Qw1221wq »

mcdb84 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:55 pm Hey guys,

Just locked in a 2.5% conventional 30 year fixed with Owning.com.

Since I have over 50% equity, they didn't charge me the 0.25% origination charge.

Absolutely no closing costs at all: No origination, No title charges, No recording charges. They gave me lender credit of $1104.00 to cover all costs.

Only costs for me is prepaid interest of 15 days, which total $406.00

I was in shock that this was completely free! I actually am refinancing from a VA 30 year fixed, which I closed back in May 2020, into this conventional loan and opted to not escrow my taxes and insurance.

Total loan amount is $389400.00
Website shows 2.625%. Who did you use for price match?
coconutpolito
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by coconutpolito »

brajalle wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:52 am
coconutpolito wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:55 am Is anyone familiar with the Mortgage Credit Certificate? I need some help deciding if I should refinance but that would mean losing the mcc. My current mortgage payment is 2160 with the MCC. I just refinanced in April of this year and I will be in my home 2 years in October. I'm in Socal and the MCC gives me a 20% credit. My current rate is 3.25 and I'm thinking that if these rates drop to 2% or even 2.25% then it would make sense to give up the MCC and refinance at a much lower rate. My current balance on my loan is ~493k. Thoughts? Thanks for any help.
Calculate it out. You'll want to know your potential interest rate, closing costs, and then you can do some math with your amortization schedule to figure out the MCC's exact value each year. This would let you know when you will break even and how much you will come out ahead over the assumed lifetime of keeping the loans. If you don't know the exact interest rate or closing costs, you can play with those values to figure out what your cut-offs should be for each in terms of coming out ahead in a timeframe you approve of. I'll also add that most people over-estimate how long they will stay in a location...and as indicated a few posts up, people also keep being surprised at rates dropping. The median length of homeownership in the country is 13 years. Also, is MCC re-issue an option?
A reissue is not possible. I had it reissued back in April and it was a 1 time deal. At that time I went from 4.375 to 3.25. According to my calculations, the break even right now is at 2.25. If it goes that low, I'll jump on it since I'll be able to do a 25 yr loan and keep the same payment I have now but pay it off much quicker if I decide to add to the mortgage. Thanks for your input.
thrillhou
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by thrillhou »

Qw1221wq wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:17 am
mcdb84 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:55 pm Hey guys,

Just locked in a 2.5% conventional 30 year fixed with Owning.com.

Since I have over 50% equity, they didn't charge me the 0.25% origination charge.

Absolutely no closing costs at all: No origination, No title charges, No recording charges. They gave me lender credit of $1104.00 to cover all costs.

Only costs for me is prepaid interest of 15 days, which total $406.00

I was in shock that this was completely free! I actually am refinancing from a VA 30 year fixed, which I closed back in May 2020, into this conventional loan and opted to not escrow my taxes and insurance.

Total loan amount is $389400.00
Website shows 2.625%. Who did you use for price match?
Their website went up from 2.5% to 2.625% for the 30 yr between Tuesday night and Wednesday night. 15 yr stayed at 2.25%

LoanCabin, RateRabbit, and LoanMonkey increased their costs between the two nights for my input scenerio (loan cabin substantially: 30yr stayed at 2.375% but went to $957 in points from $111 the night before, and their 15 yr $0 had been 2.125% and is now back at 2.25%)

Meanwhile, achLending and aimloan had slight decreases in their fees.
mcdb84
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mcdb84 »

thrillhou wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:48 am
Qw1221wq wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:17 am
mcdb84 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:55 pm Hey guys,

Just locked in a 2.5% conventional 30 year fixed with Owning.com.

Since I have over 50% equity, they didn't charge me the 0.25% origination charge.

Absolutely no closing costs at all: No origination, No title charges, No recording charges. They gave me lender credit of $1104.00 to cover all costs.

Only costs for me is prepaid interest of 15 days, which total $406.00

I was in shock that this was completely free! I actually am refinancing from a VA 30 year fixed, which I closed back in May 2020, into this conventional loan and opted to not escrow my taxes and insurance.

Total loan amount is $389400.00
Website shows 2.625%. Who did you use for price match?
Their website went up from 2.5% to 2.625% for the 30 yr between Tuesday night and Wednesday night. 15 yr stayed at 2.25%

LoanCabin, RateRabbit, and LoanMonkey increased their costs between the two nights for my input scenerio (loan cabin substantially: 30yr stayed at 2.375% but went to $957 in points from $111 the night before, and their 15 yr $0 had been 2.125% and is now back at 2.25%)

Meanwhile, achLending and aimloan had slight decreases in their fees.
Just checked Owning.com and you are right. Crazy how fast things move. I did apply to Loan Cabin, but have yet to hear a response from them.
fishNfool
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by fishNfool »

I am considering a refi on my rental property that we are going to be moving into next month. Primary home is now in escrow.
This is a 2 unit rental, 3bd 2ba upstairs is the unit we will occupy. I have a 4% 30yr loan we are about 5 years into. Im not seeing rates much lower to make a refi worth the fee's.

Perhaps a recast on my current loan would be a better option?

Also considering just paying this loan off?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

fishNfool wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:04 am I am considering a refi on my rental property that we are going to be moving into next month. Primary home is now in escrow.
This is a 2 unit rental, 3bd 2ba upstairs is the unit we will occupy. I have a 4% 30yr loan we are about 5 years into. Im not seeing rates much lower to make a refi worth the fee's.

Perhaps a recast on my current loan would be a better option?

Also considering just paying this loan off?
Since this will be your primary residence, there must be some extenuating circumstances that you cannot get a no-fee 3% loan. If such is the case, then yes, I would consider paying it off if you are capable. But I would really make sure you checked the kinds of places mentioned in this thread to make sure you can”not see rates much lower to make a refi worth” it at no fees.
ZMonet
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ZMonet »

K-knows wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:04 pm
ZMonet wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:13 am Could use some help sorting through an offer I got from Watermark.

I currently am in a 15 year loan (7 years left) at 2.75%. $235k remaining. About 35% LTV.

Watermark is offering 10 years fixed/no points/2.25% and a $3,000 lender credit.

Origination-$1499 (A on the LE)
Credit/flood-$37 (B on the LE)
Appraisal-$550 (if needed) (B on the LE)
Title- $1050 (C on the LE)

Is my understanding correct that the lender credit would offset all but $86? Is Watermark saying an appraisal might not be needed because of my LTV? Am I missing some line items that I should ask about?

If I follow the same payout schedule that I currently have (7 years) then it looks like I would save approximately $5,500 over the 7 years. Does that sound about right?
FYI Watermark quoted me today the following on a refi of my home in Virginia on a 10 year loan with LTV of 30%. I'm hoping they will waive the appraisal.

Origination-$1499 (A on the LE)
Credit/flood-$37 (B on the LE)
Appraisal-$550 (if needed) (B on the LE)
Title-$1260 (C on the LE)

2.375% / 10 year fixed / lender credit $2500
They ended up waiving the appraisal for me (I'm at about 35% LTV). I have not yet received a completed LE, but did receive one with the credits and escrow ommitted. Loan has been moved to the processing team.
iridum
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by iridum »

Someone I know just got offered 2.5% 30yr fixed no cost on a 400k loan with 50% LTV in CA from Intelliloan. Anyone heard of this company?

When I tried with them, they said they are not lending to people with multiple properties .. not sure what criteria that is.
ymmt
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ymmt »

Hit headlines right now:

U.S. Mortgage Rates Plunge to Record Low 2.88% for 30-Year Loans

(Bloomberg) -- Mortgages rates have found another record low, potentially boosting a housing market has been a bright spot for a shaky U.S. economy.
The average for a 30-year fixed loan fell to 2.88%, the lowest in nearly 50 years of record keeping by Freddie Mac. It was the eighth time since the coronavirus started roiling financial markets that rates have dropped to a new low.

Freddie Mac U.S. 30-year home mortgage rates declined in the week ended Aug. 6.
30-year home mortgage rates declined 11 basis points to 2.88 percent; rates were 3.60 percent the same time last year
15-year rates declined seven basis points to 2.44 percent; rates were 3.05 percent the same time last year
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batpot
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by batpot »

Sebonic had 2.5% APR 30 year fixed on Tuesday.
Couldn't get them on the phone.
Rates shot up yesterday, and even higher today.
ras4250
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ras4250 »

any mortgage experts out there, if a credit score is good 800+ with only 1 inquiry right now, would applying for a credit card before applying for a refinance materially impact the rate? Is it more complicated than just that info and depend on each situation? TIA
AndMan
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by AndMan »

Just closed with loandepot for a 2.75% 30yr high balance. True no cost + was given an additional $3200 in lender credits to compete with the better AMEX promo. Wouldn't have gotten anywhere near that good of a deal if it wasnt for all the information here!
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

batpot wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:37 am Sebonic had 2.5% APR 30 year fixed on Tuesday.
Couldn't get them on the phone.
Rates shot up yesterday, and even higher today.
I just spoke to them. They offered 2.625% 30-year with no points. My current offer is better (same rate, larger lender credit).
NDS
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by NDS »

pianos101 wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:05 am
batpot wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:37 am Sebonic had 2.5% APR 30 year fixed on Tuesday.
Couldn't get them on the phone.
Rates shot up yesterday, and even higher today.
I just spoke to them. They offered 2.625% 30-year with no points. My current offer is better (same rate, larger lender credit).
Were they willing to put that into an LE without completing a full app / sending over W2s?
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

NDS wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:12 am
pianos101 wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:05 am
batpot wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:37 am Sebonic had 2.5% APR 30 year fixed on Tuesday.
Couldn't get them on the phone.
Rates shot up yesterday, and even higher today.
I just spoke to them. They offered 2.625% 30-year with no points. My current offer is better (same rate, larger lender credit).
Were they willing to put that into an LE without completing a full app / sending over W2s?
I didn't get that far because it wasn't worth it to me, but I don't think so because he wanted to send me the link to apply.
coconutpolito
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by coconutpolito »

Loan cabin is showing their 15 yr fixed for 2%
blablabla0010
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2.375 VS 2.5, lenderfi vs better.com

Post by blablabla0010 »

Avid reader, but asking my first question
Thank you for all the experts in the house. [/color]

I have 2.375% from Lenderfi for 20 years on 500k in Maryland no closing costs, no excrow, zero out of pocket cost

Better.com will not match, but will increase lender credits to $-4999 at 2.5%, and then there is the Amex $2500 from better.com (on my loan estimate from them, there is just enough money to pay for A,B,C, D, E and F{prepaid interest and 6 months of property taxes} and 534 out of pocket to cover the rest. F is likely the same what ever lender you use anyways, right?

The difference in lifetime interest from 2.375% to 2.5% is $7000

The difference in monthly payments is $33

I want to go with Lenderfi, but what am I missing?

Also, with no excrow, how can I maximize that lenders credit? Is there a way to add it to one time prepaid for taxes or use it to pay down my principal?
gurusw
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gurusw »

Hi,

What is the best way to comparison shop for mortgage rates? Do I need to get quotes over email/phone from various sources, and then submit application to only one of them?

Please let me know. I have seen people sharing their LE on this forum. Do you actually obtain LE from various lenders before making the final choice?
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gas_balloon
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Re: 2.375 VS 2.5, lenderfi vs better.com

Post by gas_balloon »

blablabla0010 wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:34 am Better.com will not match, but will increase lender credits to $-4999 at 2.5%, and then there is the Amex $2500 from better.com
I was told that the Amex offer has expired. Not sure why, but you may want to double-check if you qualify for it.
blablabla0010 wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:34 am
I have 2.375% from Lenderfi for 20 years on 500k in Maryland no closing costs, no excrow, zero out of pocket cost

Better.com will not match, but will increase lender credits to $-4999 at 2.5%, and then there is the Amex $2500 from better.com (on my loan estimate from them, there is just enough money to pay for A,B,C, D, E and F{prepaid interest and 6 months of property taxes} and 534 out of pocket to cover the rest. F is likely the same what ever lender you use anyways, right?

The difference in lifetime interest from 2.375% to 2.5% is $7000

The difference in monthly payments is $33

I want to go with Lenderfi, but what am I missing?

Also, with no excrow, how can I maximize that lenders credit? Is there a way to add it to one time prepaid for taxes or use it to pay down my principal?
OK, so I assume both are 20-yr fixed.

You are right that LenderFi makes sense if you do not plan to re-finance for next 20 years (or for a long time, atleast).
Better.com makes a lot of sense if you may re-finance within few months of closing with them. 2.5% is a low rate - I am unsure if we will see a lot of rate drops below that (although I have been wrong on this numerous times, thankfully).
blablabla0010 wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:34 amF is likely the same what ever lender you use anyways, right?
Yes, however F is not really a "true" closing cost - its prepaid interest (and in some case also property tax) you have to pay any way even if you did not refinance. For purpose of comparison, you should use (D + E) and deduct the lender credit from it. If that number is 0, its no-cost. If its negative, you are making money on the re-finance.
Jags4186
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Re: 2.375 VS 2.5, lenderfi vs better.com

Post by Jags4186 »

blablabla0010 wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:34 am Avid reader, but asking my first question
Thank you for all the experts in the house. [/color]

I have 2.375% from Lenderfi for 20 years on 500k in Maryland no closing costs, no excrow, zero out of pocket cost

Better.com will not match, but will increase lender credits to $-4999 at 2.5%, and then there is the Amex $2500 from better.com (on my loan estimate from them, there is just enough money to pay for A,B,C, D, E and F{prepaid interest and 6 months of property taxes} and 534 out of pocket to cover the rest. F is likely the same what ever lender you use anyways, right?

The difference in lifetime interest from 2.375% to 2.5% is $7000

The difference in monthly payments is $33

I want to go with Lenderfi, but what am I missing?

Also, with no excrow, how can I maximize that lenders credit? Is there a way to add it to one time prepaid for taxes or use it to pay down my principal?
What is the cash difference between the two? If your closing costs are roughly $1500, then the Better deal gives you $6000 in exchange for a 0.125% higher rate. I would take the $6k in a heartbeat.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: 2.375 VS 2.5, lenderfi vs better.com

Post by BrandonBogle »

blablabla0010 wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:34 am Also, with no excrow, how can I maximize that lenders credit? Is there a way to add it to one time prepaid for taxes or use it to pay down my principal?
You can pay for closing costs, $2k in cash to you, and $2.5k in principal reduction. Any more and you will need to get an escrow for the loan do the credits apply to that. You can apply after a few monthly payments to get it waived.
newbiead
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbiead »

I locked my rate with LenderFi(with escrow) and signed the LE, but I think I might be getting a better deal with Owning without an escrow. Can I just cancel my application with LenderFi. What do I need to tell them? Any suggestions?
Katz
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Katz »

Niceperson77 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:02 pm Hello everyone — here is what I received from Mutual of Omaha....$140k loan @ 2.6% with 1 point. I believe the guy said $440ish/month payment. I currently have a 15 yr $62k HELOC at 5.7% ($550/month) with Suntrust that I'll be using the money to pay off.

I spent all day trying to find rates but the best I could find was Omaha at 2.6% and Amerisave VA loan at 2.5% with $4,000 closing cost.

Should I lock in with Mutual of Omaha tomorrow or check somewhere else? I'm in NC so many of the popular places like Loan Cabin don't work here. LenderFi said they only do refinance with no cash out (think he said $200k+). Box Loans said they are at 500% capacity and not taking new loans.

Where else should I look? This is my first refi. 800 credit score.

NKBC (through Costco) is at 3% with $3k in fees
Owning is CA only
Rate Rabbit - not NC
PenFed 3.7% no fees
Loan Depot - CA only

Still waiting on Better and Watermark to get back
AimLoan.com has been the best option for me so far for a ReFi with $187k principal remaining. On the phone, folks at Better Mortgage said they could try to give me a better offer once I have the official loan summary from AimLoan. People at AimLoan that I've talked to are really nice, while the guy at Better was unprofessional.
Katz
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Katz »

newbiead wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:24 pm I locked my rate with LenderFi(with escrow) and signed the LE, but I think I might be getting a better deal with Owning without an escrow. Can I just cancel my application with LenderFi. What do I need to tell them? Any suggestions?
If it's not a better deal from Owning, you could send them the LE from LenderFi to see if they can do better... or vice versa
jimmyrules712
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jimmyrules712 »

Katz wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:25 pm
Niceperson77 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:02 pm Hello everyone — here is what I received from Mutual of Omaha....$140k loan @ 2.6% with 1 point. I believe the guy said $440ish/month payment. I currently have a 15 yr $62k HELOC at 5.7% ($550/month) with Suntrust that I'll be using the money to pay off.

I spent all day trying to find rates but the best I could find was Omaha at 2.6% and Amerisave VA loan at 2.5% with $4,000 closing cost.

Should I lock in with Mutual of Omaha tomorrow or check somewhere else? I'm in NC so many of the popular places like Loan Cabin don't work here. LenderFi said they only do refinance with no cash out (think he said $200k+). Box Loans said they are at 500% capacity and not taking new loans.

Where else should I look? This is my first refi. 800 credit score.

NKBC (through Costco) is at 3% with $3k in fees
Owning is CA only
Rate Rabbit - not NC
PenFed 3.7% no fees
Loan Depot - CA only

Still waiting on Better and Watermark to get back
AimLoan.com has been the best option for me so far for a ReFi with $187k principal remaining. On the phone, folks at Better Mortgage said they could try to give me a better offer once I have the official loan summary from AimLoan. People at AimLoan that I've talked to are really nice, while the guy at Better was unprofessional.
What kind of a deal did AImloan give you? You're the first person I've seen say that Aimloan provided the best offer. Did you check with LenderFI, Laon Cabin, or Watermark? I haven't seen Aimloan get anywhere near the deals those 3 have had. Better hasn't been nearly as competitive either for many people.
lookasquirrel
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by lookasquirrel »

texascrane wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:58 pm
spbos wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:36 pm
texascrane wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:50 pm Thanks to this thread I applied with LenderFi. I’m in Texas and locked in a 30 year at 2.375 with no points.
Zero closing?
$1900 plus funding my escrow to close.
Did you apply after they were temporarily not taking new applications but went through the app.lenderfi link? How long from submitting to them responding? Did they give you any credits? Waive appraisal?
KeepinItPositive
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by KeepinItPositive »

Wow...

Currently just about to close on a 2.75/30/no cost with better and just had lenderfi call me up because we hadn’t chatted in a few weeks offering 2.50/30/no cost.

Just got off the phone, I’m inclined to go ahead and get my current one closed (bird in hand) but wonder how soon I could start another one with LF.

I continue to be just amazed at this low rate environment.
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