Refinance Mega Thread

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newbiead
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbiead »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:39 pm
Average Investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:33 pm My "no cost" LE from LenderFi asks me to fund escrow with a year's worth of the tax and insurance at closing. Is that standard practice? I've never had a loan with an escrow account before.

Thank you.
If you waive escrow, they will likely reduce your credits or increase your interest rate, so to keep it no cost, you will likely need to use escrow.

I am not sure about 1 year's worth of tax/insurance though. When I got my initial LE, they listed 6 months worth of taxes/insurance, but when I got my pre-closing discloure (there was no change on the final closing disclosure) escrow was only for 2 months worth of taxes/insurance.
I got my LE with 1 yr of insurance and 8 months of taxes. But, when I spoke to the MO, he said it would be 2 months of taxes. So will see..
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XtremeSki2001
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by XtremeSki2001 »

SpicyUnagi wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:45 amTitle fees are outrageous. Can be as low as $300.00 for everything. Rest is reasonable. You have near perfect credit, get no escrow requirement so you can keep interest on that pot annually. Try not to finance closing costs. Ask for waive of fee on 2.5% lock.
A+B+C for Better and Mutual of Omaha are $3,118 and $2,678, respectively. I see a lot of posters with A+B+C around 1500-1800 ... how? :D
A box of rain will ease the pain and love will see you through
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

XtremeSki2001 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:01 pm
SpicyUnagi wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:45 amTitle fees are outrageous. Can be as low as $300.00 for everything. Rest is reasonable. You have near perfect credit, get no escrow requirement so you can keep interest on that pot annually. Try not to finance closing costs. Ask for waive of fee on 2.5% lock.
A+B+C for Better and Mutual of Omaha are $3,118 and $2,678, respectively. I see a lot of posters with A+B+C around 1500-1800 ... how? :D
What is your A showing? You most likely have some points in A.
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XtremeSki2001
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by XtremeSki2001 »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:03 pm
XtremeSki2001 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:01 pm
SpicyUnagi wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:45 amTitle fees are outrageous. Can be as low as $300.00 for everything. Rest is reasonable. You have near perfect credit, get no escrow requirement so you can keep interest on that pot annually. Try not to finance closing costs. Ask for waive of fee on 2.5% lock.
A+B+C for Better and Mutual of Omaha are $3,118 and $2,678, respectively. I see a lot of posters with A+B+C around 1500-1800 ... how? :D
What is your A showing? You most likely have some points in A.
A is $0 (Better) and $350 (Omaha).
A box of rain will ease the pain and love will see you through
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

XtremeSki2001 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:12 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:03 pm
XtremeSki2001 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:01 pm
SpicyUnagi wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:45 amTitle fees are outrageous. Can be as low as $300.00 for everything. Rest is reasonable. You have near perfect credit, get no escrow requirement so you can keep interest on that pot annually. Try not to finance closing costs. Ask for waive of fee on 2.5% lock.
A+B+C for Better and Mutual of Omaha are $3,118 and $2,678, respectively. I see a lot of posters with A+B+C around 1500-1800 ... how? :D
What is your A showing? You most likely have some points in A.
A is $0 (Better) and $350 (Omaha).
It could be that title related stuff just costs more where you live than other people.
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Average Investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Average Investor »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:39 pm
Average Investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:33 pm My "no cost" LE from LenderFi asks me to fund escrow with a year's worth of the tax and insurance at closing. Is that standard practice? I've never had a loan with an escrow account before.

Thank you.
If you waive escrow, they will likely reduce your credits or increase your interest rate, so to keep it no cost, you will likely need to use escrow.

I am not sure about 1 year's worth of tax/insurance though. When I got my initial LE, they listed 6 months worth of taxes/insurance, but when I got my pre-closing discloure (there was no change on the final closing disclosure) escrow was only for 2 months worth of taxes/insurance.
Thanks a lot.

I just received an updated LE, LenderFi rolled escrow into the loan amount so I do not have the bring any $ to close. I'm not crazy about financing the escrow account but the rate is great and doing so will help preserve my emergency fund.

Thank you.
Tomorrow never knows.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

Average Investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:15 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:39 pm
Average Investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:33 pm My "no cost" LE from LenderFi asks me to fund escrow with a year's worth of the tax and insurance at closing. Is that standard practice? I've never had a loan with an escrow account before.

Thank you.
If you waive escrow, they will likely reduce your credits or increase your interest rate, so to keep it no cost, you will likely need to use escrow.

I am not sure about 1 year's worth of tax/insurance though. When I got my initial LE, they listed 6 months worth of taxes/insurance, but when I got my pre-closing discloure (there was no change on the final closing disclosure) escrow was only for 2 months worth of taxes/insurance.
Thanks a lot.

I just received an updated LE, LenderFi rolled escrow into the loan amount so I do not have the bring any $ to close. I'm not crazy about financing the escrow account but the rate is great and doing so will help preserve my emergency fund.

Thank you.
They offered that option to me, but I did not want to increase my principal. But I had the free cash flow (outside my emergency fund) to float the closing costs while I waited for the escrow in my prior loan to be refunded. But it sounds like you do not have an escrow, so no pot of money coming back to you. Rolling in escrow into the loan is not idea, but I guess you can always prepay that amount to reduce your principal in the future, just know that your monthly payment will be a little higher because of the increased principal amount.
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Average Investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Average Investor »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:20 pm
Average Investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:15 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:39 pm
Average Investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:33 pm My "no cost" LE from LenderFi asks me to fund escrow with a year's worth of the tax and insurance at closing. Is that standard practice? I've never had a loan with an escrow account before.

Thank you.
If you waive escrow, they will likely reduce your credits or increase your interest rate, so to keep it no cost, you will likely need to use escrow.

I am not sure about 1 year's worth of tax/insurance though. When I got my initial LE, they listed 6 months worth of taxes/insurance, but when I got my pre-closing discloure (there was no change on the final closing disclosure) escrow was only for 2 months worth of taxes/insurance.
Thanks a lot.

I just received an updated LE, LenderFi rolled escrow into the loan amount so I do not have the bring any $ to close. I'm not crazy about financing the escrow account but the rate is great and doing so will help preserve my emergency fund.

Thank you.
They offered that option to me, but I did not want to increase my principal. But I had the free cash flow (outside my emergency fund) to float the closing costs while I waited for the escrow in my prior loan to be refunded. But it sounds like you do not have an escrow, so no pot of money coming back to you. Rolling in escrow into the loan is not idea, but I guess you can always prepay that amount to reduce your principal in the future, just know that your monthly payment will be a little higher because of the increased principal amount.
Thanks for the insight. I am going to ask LenderFi if I can qualify for the same terms without rolling in the escrow amount.

Thank you.
Tomorrow never knows.
Minty
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Minty »

annedoorco17 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:40 pm I'd love some advice. Just found this forum. I plan to stay in my house 5-10 years; am 74. Am getting an unexpected $50,000 and want to use it for whatever makes the most financial sense--invest, refi, pay off loan with some invested funds, or recast. No other debts; enough money for life. Here's what it looks like:


CURRENT WELLS FARGO REFI WELLS FARGO RECAST? PAY OFF Mortgage
Rate 4.875 3.875% 4.875
Original loan/2009 $93,00/2009 $72,291.76/8.1.2020 $72,291
Years left 19 years left 15 year term 19 years
8.1.2020 Balance $72,291.76 $72,291.76 $22,291.76
Add $50,000
MONTHLY
Principal 198.48 432 --
Interest 293.69 322 --
Taxes 640.11 640.11 640.11
TOTAL $1,132.28 1394.11
$640.11
No costs to refi
Except $15 acc to WF phone rep
I appreciate your sage advice!
I found your post very hard to read because of the formatting, although the view when drafting the reply is clear. In addition this post might be better suited to a full portfolio review, because there are tax implications, although you could also just say whether you itemize deductions.

Nevertheless, based on what you posted, I would advise shopping around for a better rate on a no-cost refi, even though you have a low balance, and then strongly consider using the $50K to prepay unless you wind up with a loan at or below 3%. With a low balance like that you could look for a 7/1 or 10/1 arm, if the available rates on those are lower, with a plan to pay it off before any adjustment. I don't favor the recast, because you still have that high interest rate. If you want to pay it off quickly, refi, prepay, and then prepay more.
Core Four w/ nominal bonds & TIPS. Refi Rampage: Purchase: 4.125% 30 -> R1 3% 20 -> R2 2.375% 15 -> R3 locked 1.99% 15
newbiead
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbiead »

Has anybody gotten a loan from LenderFi for an ARM ?
Xrayman69
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Xrayman69 »

pianos101 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:54 am
Xrayman69 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:35 am Anyone have good experience and rates recently in Seattle area for refinance.
locked with loan depot at 2.625% 30-year with net $2,100 lender credit. LTV ~50%, high balance conventional.
Got the same quote for the 30 year. Also got 2.225% for 15 year fixed. Asked about cash out so as to clear mortgage on vacation home and they stated same rate and thus simplify into a single monthly payment at the lowest 15 year fixed rate I’ve ever realistically seen.

I basically stopped search and will begin process later this week.

THANKS!!!
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XtremeSki2001
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by XtremeSki2001 »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:13 pm
XtremeSki2001 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:12 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:03 pm
XtremeSki2001 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:01 pm
SpicyUnagi wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:45 amTitle fees are outrageous. Can be as low as $300.00 for everything. Rest is reasonable. You have near perfect credit, get no escrow requirement so you can keep interest on that pot annually. Try not to finance closing costs. Ask for waive of fee on 2.5% lock.
A+B+C for Better and Mutual of Omaha are $3,118 and $2,678, respectively. I see a lot of posters with A+B+C around 1500-1800 ... how? :D
What is your A showing? You most likely have some points in A.
A is $0 (Better) and $350 (Omaha).
It could be that title related stuff just costs more where you live than other people.
It’s starting to look that way!
A box of rain will ease the pain and love will see you through
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MilleniumBuc
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MilleniumBuc »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:56 am
MilleniumBuc wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:31 am Thanks to all in this thread for your constant updates.

I have finally locked down my rate with Quicken Loans / Rocket Mortgage through the AMEX $2500 offer. I found a buy down rate for me based on all the searching I have done that was too good to play games with. 15 year - 1.99% with 1.875 buy down at $4,700, with limited cash out to make it $0 cash to close. It actually has them paying us $848 after locking down and it created the LE to sign. I expect it to be more since I started the application in June, and its using my current loan balance from 4 months ago.
Congratulations on nearing the end of the refi. If you are concerned about cash flow, so be it. But absent that, I would seriously consider NOT paying 1.85 points. $4,700 / 1.85% = about $254,000 mortgage. What is the par rate (0 points/buy down)? Over the course of 15-years, now much more interest would you pay at the par rate vs. 1.99% ?

You are able to finance the closing costs even if you don’t buy points, so the cash flow won’t really be affected for closing, though your monthly will be higher. But you will have $4,700 more in your pocket to offset the payment difference.

Meanwhile, I suspect your “them paying us $848” isn’t Rocket actually paying you, but setting your new loan amount $848 higher than necessary. So they aren’t paying you that money, they are lending it to you.
Thanks for the brutally honest feedback. I took it like a punch to the gut, because I really thought I had something good for me since most no cost 15 year rates I was getting were in the mid 3%. Just gave me more resolve to shop the rate around and fees around.

1. Ally Mortgage couldn't match.
2. Checked with local credit union that was at 2.625 with closing costs and escrow rolled into loan, increasing my balance by 13k. They came back with 2.375 and reduced costs, but it was still 11k rolled into loan.
3. Used the Lenderfi bypass link someone posted a few days ago and applied late last night. The fee wasn't great, with true no cost around 3%. They called this morning and went straight to the point about reducing fees, eliminating escrow, and rolling very few costs ($1.8k) into the loan, at 2.5%

Total Loan Cost (A+B+C) at $1.5 k
Total Other Costs (E+F+G+H) at $1.6k
Total Closing Costs (D+I) - Lender credit = $1.8K
Estimated cash to close - $50.

So comparing loan cost per month it is $1615 with $251.3k mortgage (old LE with Rocket Mortgage at 1.99%) and $1557 with $233.5k mortgage (Lenderfi LE at 2.5%). This is coming from a 30 year 4.625 rate with $231.7k loan remaining, and keeping flexibility for any more drops in loan rates.

First refinance I have ever done, so I have learned a lot from this Mega thread and everyone who has posted in it.
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gas_balloon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gas_balloon »

Better.com says I cannot have the title issued in my living trusts name. Has anyone dealt with this before - my previous refi with BofA did not have this problem since they were able to get the title issued in name of my living trust after closing.

Does any one know how difficult or expensive it would be for me if I were to get the title re-issued by county in my living trusts' name (Santa Clara county in CA)?
totallynotsure
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by totallynotsure »

Citi offered me 4% on a $590K loan with 15% down.

someone else told me they received 3.25%. 4% sounds absurdly high?

as an aside how can i use the backdoor to get to LenderFi?

thanks!
Minty
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Minty »

gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:55 pm Better.com says I cannot have the title issued in my living trusts name. Has anyone dealt with this before - my previous refi with BofA did not have this problem since they were able to get the title issued in name of my living trust after closing.

Does any one know how difficult or expensive it would be for me if I were to get the title re-issued by county in my living trusts' name (Santa Clara county in CA)?
Owning.com had no trouble with this. For a bunch of the closing papers, we had to sign both as individuals and as trustees. The property was already titled in the name of the trust, something we did several years ago inexpensively--a few hundred dollars--in connection with an estate plan.
Core Four w/ nominal bonds & TIPS. Refi Rampage: Purchase: 4.125% 30 -> R1 3% 20 -> R2 2.375% 15 -> R3 locked 1.99% 15
totallynotsure
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by totallynotsure »

totallynotsure wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:07 pm Citi offered me 4% on a $590K loan with 15% down.

someone else told me they received 3.25%. 4% sounds absurdly high?

as an aside how can i use the backdoor to get to LenderFi?

thanks!
disregard. LenderFi doesn't do business in NY.

my point above still stands. what's with the 4% rate? it sounds insanely high?

i'm waiting on a quote from Alliant CU and Rocket Mortgage too.
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Average Investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Average Investor »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:20 pm
Average Investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:15 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:39 pm
Average Investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:33 pm My "no cost" LE from LenderFi asks me to fund escrow with a year's worth of the tax and insurance at closing. Is that standard practice? I've never had a loan with an escrow account before.

Thank you.
If you waive escrow, they will likely reduce your credits or increase your interest rate, so to keep it no cost, you will likely need to use escrow.

I am not sure about 1 year's worth of tax/insurance though. When I got my initial LE, they listed 6 months worth of taxes/insurance, but when I got my pre-closing discloure (there was no change on the final closing disclosure) escrow was only for 2 months worth of taxes/insurance.
Thanks a lot.

I just received an updated LE, LenderFi rolled escrow into the loan amount so I do not have the bring any $ to close. I'm not crazy about financing the escrow account but the rate is great and doing so will help preserve my emergency fund.

Thank you.
They offered that option to me, but I did not want to increase my principal. But I had the free cash flow (outside my emergency fund) to float the closing costs while I waited for the escrow in my prior loan to be refunded. But it sounds like you do not have an escrow, so no pot of money coming back to you. Rolling in escrow into the loan is not idea, but I guess you can always prepay that amount to reduce your principal in the future, just know that your monthly payment will be a little higher because of the increased principal amount.
I was able to get the same terms with bringing funds to closing for the escrow. Just locked 2.5% 30 year zero cost. :D
Tomorrow never knows.
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gas_balloon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gas_balloon »

Minty wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:07 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:55 pm Better.com says I cannot have the title issued in my living trusts name. Has anyone dealt with this before - my previous refi with BofA did not have this problem since they were able to get the title issued in name of my living trust after closing.

Does any one know how difficult or expensive it would be for me if I were to get the title re-issued by county in my living trusts' name (Santa Clara county in CA)?
Owning.com had no trouble with this. For a bunch of the closing papers, we had to sign both as individuals and as trustees. The property was already titled in the name of the trust, something we did several years ago inexpensively--a few hundred dollars--in connection with an estate plan.
Yes, owning confirmed the same. Better.com is $500 lower in cost, but re-title will cost around $100 plus notary... Don't think it's worth it at that point. I'll mostly go with owning.com at no-cost 2.5%.
new
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by new »

ChiKid24 wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:59 pm For those of you in California, Owning.com published new rates on their website today. No closing costs:

Loans up to $510,400
- 15 year at 2.25%
- 30 year at 2.50%

Loans up to $765,600
- 15 year at 2.50%
- 30 year at 2.625%
I actually locked with owning @ 2.625 yesterday because I didn't see the advertised rate was 2.5.

Should the loan officer be able to lower the rate for me down to 2.5?

Also, saw this in the fine print:
Disclosed rate assumes a $350,000 rate and term refinance loan on an owner-occupied single family residence in California. Minimum 740 FICO credit score, 50% loan to value with no subordinate debt. If these factors are not met, you may still qualify and additional pricing adjustments may apply.

I wonder if 50% LTV is a requirement to get the advertised rate?
index245
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by index245 »

gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:55 pm Better.com says I cannot have the title issued in my living trusts name. Has anyone dealt with this before - my previous refi with BofA did not have this problem since they were able to get the title issued in name of my living trust after closing.

Does any one know how difficult or expensive it would be for me if I were to get the title re-issued by county in my living trusts' name (Santa Clara county in CA)?
Bumping this, I have the same question (also in CA, different mortgage broker). For those whose brokers remove the title from living trust, who is responsible for putting it back in the trust? Mortgage broker or client? How does it work? Thanks in advance for your expertise.
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gas_balloon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gas_balloon »

index245 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:48 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:55 pm Better.com says I cannot have the title issued in my living trusts name. Has anyone dealt with this before - my previous refi with BofA did not have this problem since they were able to get the title issued in name of my living trust after closing.

Does any one know how difficult or expensive it would be for me if I were to get the title re-issued by county in my living trusts' name (Santa Clara county in CA)?
Bumping this, I have the same question (also in CA, different mortgage broker). For those whose brokers remove the title from living trust, who is responsible for putting it back in the trust? Mortgage broker or client? How does it work? Thanks in advance for your expertise.
I did some digging on this and also called up some title companies around. The responsibility is on you, the client. Some lenders will let their title companies do it for you (BofA did for me in the past). Some won't, in which case you have to get this done on your own.

The title company fees ($200-250), recording fees (~$30 for santa clara county), notary fees ($20) is what it would take to get this done through a title company. You can chose to do it on your own by walking into the county recording office and avoiding the $200-250 fees that title companies will charge.
just_me
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by just_me »

Trying again with Better on merging 1st and Heloc at 4.25% and 3.25% with 10 years left on 1st and 6 years on Heloc. Are they still doing Amex?

My new submission increases the closing costs while lowering the rate and a smaller loan amount. I'd rather not pay points but other lenders didn't want to deal with the HELOC and at 28k owed, I'd rather get away from the possible rate increases next year.

New Request
15-year $147,033 @2.75%

$5861 cash to close
A $3201
B $614
C $855
A+B+C $4670
E+F+G+H $1191

Previous Request
15-year $150.381 @ 2.875% rate

$5,161 cash to close
A.$3472 pts
B.$614
C.$835
D-F etc
3.275% APR
23.345% TIP
Amex
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:39 pm
Average Investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:33 pm My "no cost" LE from LenderFi asks me to fund escrow with a year's worth of the tax and insurance at closing. Is that standard practice? I've never had a loan with an escrow account before.

Thank you.
If you waive escrow, they will likely reduce your credits or increase your interest rate, so to keep it no cost, you will likely need to use escrow.

I am not sure about 1 year's worth of tax/insurance though. When I got my initial LE, they listed 6 months worth of taxes/insurance, but when I got my pre-closing discloure (there was no change on the final closing disclosure) escrow was only for 2 months worth of taxes/insurance.
It is not uncommon for the initial LE to have full finding of the payment term (6-mo for semi-annual payments, 12-mo for annual payments, etc.) and then be revised once the data is verified when the closing disclosures are being prepared.

All that said, it also isn’t uncommon for a full year’s taxes to be collected at closing, based on when the official due date is.

In NC (or at least my county), my annual property taxes are “due” Sept 1st, but there is no penalty to waiting to pay until January 4th. For the purposes of escrow, the “due” date is the due date and over a full year (a full year + minimum buffer) to be collected at closing.
K-knows
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by K-knows »

Average Investor wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:49 pm
Average Investor wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:52 pm Just applied with LenderFi, 2.5% 15 year conventional in CA with $131 in closing costs.
LenderFi agent called me today to get the process going and said rates had dropped and offered 2.375% 15 year with no costs.

It's a close call whether I'll qualify for this on income and I'm not crazy about the escrow requirement but it sure beats my 3.375% 30 year.
For what size loan and loan to value?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

MilleniumBuc wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:53 pm Thanks for the brutally honest feedback. I took it like a punch to the gut, because I really thought I had something good for me since most no cost 15 year rates I was getting were in the mid 3%. Just gave me more resolve to shop the rate around and fees around.

...
3. Used the Lenderfi bypass link someone posted a few days ago and applied late last night. ... straight to the point about reducing fees, eliminating escrow, and rolling very few costs ($1.8k) into the loan, at 2.5%

Total Loan Cost (A+B+C) at $1.5 k
Total Other Costs (E+F+G+H) at $1.6k
Total Closing Costs (D+I) - Lender credit = $1.8K
Estimated cash to close - $50.
Sorry about the punch. I’m glad it got you to a great deal though!!
index245
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by index245 »

gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:58 pm
index245 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:48 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:55 pm Better.com says I cannot have the title issued in my living trusts name. Has anyone dealt with this before - my previous refi with BofA did not have this problem since they were able to get the title issued in name of my living trust after closing.

Does any one know how difficult or expensive it would be for me if I were to get the title re-issued by county in my living trusts' name (Santa Clara county in CA)?
Bumping this, I have the same question (also in CA, different mortgage broker). For those whose brokers remove the title from living trust, who is responsible for putting it back in the trust? Mortgage broker or client? How does it work? Thanks in advance for your expertise.
I did some digging on this and also called up some title companies around. The responsibility is on you, the client. Some lenders will let their title companies do it for you (BofA did for me in the past). Some won't, in which case you have to get this done on your own.

The title company fees ($200-250), recording fees (~$30 for santa clara county), notary fees ($20) is what it would take to get this done through a title company. You can chose to do it on your own by walking into the county recording office and avoiding the $200-250 fees that title companies will charge.
Thanks for this, gas_balloon.
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Average Investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Average Investor »

K-knows wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:24 pm
Average Investor wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:49 pm
Average Investor wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:52 pm Just applied with LenderFi, 2.5% 15 year conventional in CA with $131 in closing costs.
LenderFi agent called me today to get the process going and said rates had dropped and offered 2.375% 15 year with no costs.

It's a close call whether I'll qualify for this on income and I'm not crazy about the escrow requirement but it sure beats my 3.375% 30 year.
For what size loan and loan to value?
I ended up locking 2.5% 30 year no costs, $289k and 14% loan to value.
Tomorrow never knows.
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Average Investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Average Investor »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:06 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:39 pm
Average Investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:33 pm My "no cost" LE from LenderFi asks me to fund escrow with a year's worth of the tax and insurance at closing. Is that standard practice? I've never had a loan with an escrow account before.

Thank you.
If you waive escrow, they will likely reduce your credits or increase your interest rate, so to keep it no cost, you will likely need to use escrow.

I am not sure about 1 year's worth of tax/insurance though. When I got my initial LE, they listed 6 months worth of taxes/insurance, but when I got my pre-closing discloure (there was no change on the final closing disclosure) escrow was only for 2 months worth of taxes/insurance.
It is not uncommon for the initial LE to have full finding of the payment term (6-mo for semi-annual payments, 12-mo for annual payments, etc.) and then be revised once the data is verified when the closing disclosures are being prepared.

All that said, it also isn’t uncommon for a full year’s taxes to be collected at closing, based on when the official due date is.

In NC (or at least my county), my annual property taxes are “due” Sept 1st, but there is no penalty to waiting to pay until January 4th. For the purposes of escrow, the “due” date is the due date and over a full year (a full year + minimum buffer) to be collected at closing.
Thank you.
Tomorrow never knows.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

Average Investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:46 pm
K-knows wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:24 pm
Average Investor wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:49 pm
Average Investor wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:52 pm Just applied with LenderFi, 2.5% 15 year conventional in CA with $131 in closing costs.
LenderFi agent called me today to get the process going and said rates had dropped and offered 2.375% 15 year with no costs.

It's a close call whether I'll qualify for this on income and I'm not crazy about the escrow requirement but it sure beats my 3.375% 30 year.
For what size loan and loan to value?
I ended up locking 2.5% 30 year no costs, $289k and 14% loan to value.
Wow, nice job! Looks like 2.5% is what everyone should target now!
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Average Investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Average Investor »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:02 pm
Average Investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:46 pm
K-knows wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:24 pm
Average Investor wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:49 pm
Average Investor wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:52 pm Just applied with LenderFi, 2.5% 15 year conventional in CA with $131 in closing costs.
LenderFi agent called me today to get the process going and said rates had dropped and offered 2.375% 15 year with no costs.

It's a close call whether I'll qualify for this on income and I'm not crazy about the escrow requirement but it sure beats my 3.375% 30 year.
For what size loan and loan to value?
I ended up locking 2.5% 30 year no costs, $289k and 14% loan to value.
Wow, nice job! Looks like 2.5% is what everyone should target now!
Thanks, I wasn't even that aggressive about negotiating. It seems LenderFi will give you the best they can offer as rates change, and rates changed significantly since I applied yesterday.
Tomorrow never knows.
Essenza
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Essenza »

For 15 year in CA do you think 2.375 is reasonable to expect? For example if Owning.com states 2.5 (for larger mortgage size) should I wait for website to say 2.375 or should I apply anyway thinking they might drop their rates while I am in process before anything is locked.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gas_balloon »

Essenza wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:17 pm For 15 year in CA do you think 2.375 is reasonable to expect? For example if Owning.com states 2.5 (for larger mortgage size) should I wait for website to say 2.375 or should I apply anyway thinking they might drop their rates while I am in process before anything is locked.
My agent at Owning claims they will close the loan in <15 days.. I don't expect the rates to drop before that. But he said if it does drop before day 12 (or 3 days before closing), he will adjust the rate for me.
Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 »

Does anyone know if Better has a 6 month clawback rule? I just closed July 16 on a 2.875% loan with them and am just waiting for my $2500 AMEX Promo to post. Looks like as soon as that happens I’ll be looking to refi again down to the 2.5% level.
wootwoot
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by wootwoot »

Jags4186 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:31 pm Does anyone know if Better has a 6 month clawback rule? I just closed July 16 on a 2.875% loan with them and am just waiting for my $2500 AMEX Promo to post. Looks like as soon as that happens I’ll be looking to refi again down to the 2.5% level.
Same boat here with a similar rate and timeline.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Monsterflockster »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:02 pm
Average Investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:46 pm
K-knows wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:24 pm
Average Investor wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:49 pm
Average Investor wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:52 pm Just applied with LenderFi, 2.5% 15 year conventional in CA with $131 in closing costs.
LenderFi agent called me today to get the process going and said rates had dropped and offered 2.375% 15 year with no costs.

It's a close call whether I'll qualify for this on income and I'm not crazy about the escrow requirement but it sure beats my 3.375% 30 year.
For what size loan and loan to value?
I ended up locking 2.5% 30 year no costs, $289k and 14% loan to value.
Wow, nice job! Looks like 2.5% is what everyone should target now!
2.069 million dollar house. Nice. :beer
Hoodwink
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Hoodwink »

newbiead wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:13 pm Thank you everyone for your insights. Locked a 30 yr 700K loan with LenderFi at 2.5 with no closing costs.
May know actual appraised value of your house and credit score. I applied for a little higher losn amount but still not jumbo but they did not give any lender credits nor waived escrow. So have to pay 5K out of pocket for 2.625.
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

Data Point:

LenderFi: 1.025m house, 765k loan, 2.5% no points, no fee, no escrow. 30 year fixed. California

I am in shock...

Love you all :)

Edit: And the website app went down right after.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

index245 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:27 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:58 pm
index245 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:48 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:55 pm Better.com says I cannot have the title issued in my living trusts name. Has anyone dealt with this before - my previous refi with BofA did not have this problem since they were able to get the title issued in name of my living trust after closing.

Does any one know how difficult or expensive it would be for me if I were to get the title re-issued by county in my living trusts' name (Santa Clara county in CA)?
Bumping this, I have the same question (also in CA, different mortgage broker). For those whose brokers remove the title from living trust, who is responsible for putting it back in the trust? Mortgage broker or client? How does it work? Thanks in advance for your expertise.
I did some digging on this and also called up some title companies around. The responsibility is on you, the client. Some lenders will let their title companies do it for you (BofA did for me in the past). Some won't, in which case you have to get this done on your own.

The title company fees ($200-250), recording fees (~$30 for santa clara county), notary fees ($20) is what it would take to get this done through a title company. You can chose to do it on your own by walking into the county recording office and avoiding the $200-250 fees that title companies will charge.
Thanks for this, gas_balloon.
Sorry for the late answer on this. I did a refi with Better and my signing papers included two quit claim deeds. One transferring the property out of the trust to my wife and me, then another transferring it back into the trust. Seems like a silly process, but one that they were able to handle at close and I don't believe I paid anything extra to do it. I am in Orange County, CA if that matters. Hope that helps!
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

wootwoot wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:54 pm
Jags4186 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:31 pm Does anyone know if Better has a 6 month clawback rule? I just closed July 16 on a 2.875% loan with them and am just waiting for my $2500 AMEX Promo to post. Looks like as soon as that happens I’ll be looking to refi again down to the 2.5% level.
Same boat here with a similar rate and timeline.
No clawback that I am aware of. I funded my Better refi last month and will be closing on a refi with Lenderfi on Thursday. I actually locked with Lenderfi the day after signing my closing docs with Better. I'm not a practicing lawyer, but did give a read through all of the closing documents and there is no such clawback language similar to what Lenderfi has. Though I suppose I'll know for sure in the coming weeks after my Lenderfi loan funds and replaces the Better loan.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by index245 »

ChiKid24 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:47 pm
index245 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:27 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:58 pm
index245 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:48 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:55 pm Better.com says I cannot have the title issued in my living trusts name. Has anyone dealt with this before - my previous refi with BofA did not have this problem since they were able to get the title issued in name of my living trust after closing.

Does any one know how difficult or expensive it would be for me if I were to get the title re-issued by county in my living trusts' name (Santa Clara county in CA)?
Bumping this, I have the same question (also in CA, different mortgage broker). For those whose brokers remove the title from living trust, who is responsible for putting it back in the trust? Mortgage broker or client? How does it work? Thanks in advance for your expertise.
I did some digging on this and also called up some title companies around. The responsibility is on you, the client. Some lenders will let their title companies do it for you (BofA did for me in the past). Some won't, in which case you have to get this done on your own.

The title company fees ($200-250), recording fees (~$30 for santa clara county), notary fees ($20) is what it would take to get this done through a title company. You can chose to do it on your own by walking into the county recording office and avoiding the $200-250 fees that title companies will charge.
Thanks for this, gas_balloon.
Sorry for the late answer on this. I did a refi with Better and my signing papers included two quit claim deeds. One transferring the property out of the trust to my wife and me, then another transferring it back into the trust. Seems like a silly process, but one that they were able to handle at close and I don't believe I paid anything extra to do it. I am in Orange County, CA if that matters. Hope that helps!
Thank you for taking the time to reply, it does help. I'm in LA county, trying to navigate this.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gas_balloon »

index245 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:56 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:47 pm
index245 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:27 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:58 pm
index245 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:48 pm

Bumping this, I have the same question (also in CA, different mortgage broker). For those whose brokers remove the title from living trust, who is responsible for putting it back in the trust? Mortgage broker or client? How does it work? Thanks in advance for your expertise.
I did some digging on this and also called up some title companies around. The responsibility is on you, the client. Some lenders will let their title companies do it for you (BofA did for me in the past). Some won't, in which case you have to get this done on your own.

The title company fees ($200-250), recording fees (~$30 for santa clara county), notary fees ($20) is what it would take to get this done through a title company. You can chose to do it on your own by walking into the county recording office and avoiding the $200-250 fees that title companies will charge.
Thanks for this, gas_balloon.
Sorry for the late answer on this. I did a refi with Better and my signing papers included two quit claim deeds. One transferring the property out of the trust to my wife and me, then another transferring it back into the trust. Seems like a silly process, but one that they were able to handle at close and I don't believe I paid anything extra to do it. I am in Orange County, CA if that matters. Hope that helps!
Thank you for taking the time to reply, it does help. I'm in LA county, trying to navigate this.
Thanks ChiKid24, this is really useful. I guess my LO is not aware of this - I was just told that they will have one quitclaim deed to move out of the trust, and another will be given to me by the on-site notary, and its up to me to get that submitted and complete.
jjhk121
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jjhk121 »

gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:23 pm
Essenza wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:17 pm For 15 year in CA do you think 2.375 is reasonable to expect? For example if Owning.com states 2.5 (for larger mortgage size) should I wait for website to say 2.375 or should I apply anyway thinking they might drop their rates while I am in process before anything is locked.
My agent at Owning claims they will close the loan in <15 days.. I don't expect the rates to drop before that. But he said if it does drop before day 12 (or 3 days before closing), he will adjust the rate for me.
This happened to me with Owning. I locked at 3.125% but their advertised rate dropped to 2.99% before closing and I asked if they could honor the new advertised rate. They agreed.
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

Alright, new topic within the thread. I've been preaching the "no cost" refi trick here along with many others like BrandonBogle. And I still believe it's the right move to sacrifice a bit on rate to get a lender credit that covers costs in Sections A, B, C, and E of the loan estimate. That said, we should be clear that there is an additional embedded cost in doing a "no cost" refi, which has not been addressed. That is due to the clock resetting on the loan and paying interest on the balance over a longer period of time. Here's an example:

Loan 1: $500k remaining 7 years into a 30-year loan at 3.25% has a monthly payment of $2,575. Since you are 7 years into the loan you have 276 payments remaining (12 x 23 years). So total payments remaining on the loan is $710,700 (276 x $2,575).

Loan 2: You refi the $500k into a new 30-year loan at 2.75% and get a lender credit to cover all costs making it a true "no cost" refi. This results in a new monthly payment of $2,041, saving you more than $500 a month in mortgage payments! Sounds like a no brainer, right? Here's the problem: total payments on this new loan are $734,760 (360 x $2,041). This is $24k more in total payments than what you would have made for Loan 1!

Here's the takeaway. While your interest rate and monthly payments are lower for Loan 2, you are now extending the payoff by seven years which results in paying interest over a longer duration, about $24k more interest as calculated above!

So how do you keep from paying more? Simple...you refi into Loan 2, but continue making payments as if you were in Loan 1. Since the interest rate on Loan 2 is lower than Loan 1, this means you will be paying more towards principal each month. The result is that the 23 years remaining on Loan 1 will decline to 21 years and 5 months, shaving about a year and a half off the loan. Total payments in this scenario is $662,450 (257 months x $2,575), resulting in about $48k savings from the original Loan 1 and about $72k savings from doing the Loan 2 refi and making the minimum payment. Since you are now at a lower interest rate and you are shaving time off the loan, the total payments decline significantly providing a compounding effect.

Moral of the story: No cost refi is just one component to saving money. If you have the ability, pay extra each month to keep your monthly payment the same as it was and see the compounding effect bring you significant value!
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pianos101 »

ChiKid24 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:37 pm Moral of the story: No cost refi is just one component to saving money. If you have the ability, pay extra each month to keep your monthly payment the same as it was and see the compounding effect bring you significant value!
Yup, that's exactly what I was trying preach way back on Page 82. Thanks for summarizing it clearly. It is helpful to look at the entire "cost of ownership" that includes the beginning of your current loan, the refi, through final payment to look at the big picture. Any future refi should also be "no cost," which only improves the final numbers (interest and term).

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=289559&start=4050#p5407229
dcg
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dcg »

Sorry if this has been covered but can y’all help me work through the no-cost vs lower rate approach. I have an offer for 2.125 on a 15-year fixed and $4k in closing costs. I could pay $0 in closing costs and pay 2.375 which ends up being about $60 more per month.

What would y’all do?
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

dcg wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:50 pm Sorry if this has been covered but can y’all help me work through the no-cost vs lower rate approach. I have an offer for 2.125 on a 15-year fixed and $4k in closing costs. I could pay $0 in closing costs and pay 2.375 which ends up being about $60 more per month.

What would y’all do?
The method many of us preach is to take the higher rate to cover the closing costs. Why? Because rates might continue to fall and if you pay $4k today than you've wasted the money if you want to lock in sub 2% in six months. If you've paid nothing up front, you have no sunk cost and can keep refinancing to catch the falling rates.

Another way to look at it is your payback on the $4k closing costs. Savings of $60/month on $4k results in a payback of 66 months. So if you refi or sell the house in less than 66 months, you have lost money in this transaction. If you spend nothing to refi, there is no money lost or wasted up front.

Only risk here is when rates turn around and never return to these levels and you miss the bottom. It has to happen some time, right? For me, I'd rather miss the bottom by a little than spend $4k up front and feel like I wasted money if rates continue to fall and I want to refi again.
a010z
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by a010z »

Is it possible to refinance immediately after I refinanced?
I closed recently and the existing mortgage was paid off recently.
So right now, I don't even know the new account number of my mortgage...
At this point, is it possible to do a new refinance?
Cash is King
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cash is King »

gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:17 pm
index245 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:56 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:47 pm
index245 wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:27 pm
gas_balloon wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:58 pm

I did some digging on this and also called up some title companies around. The responsibility is on you, the client. Some lenders will let their title companies do it for you (BofA did for me in the past). Some won't, in which case you have to get this done on your own.

The title company fees ($200-250), recording fees (~$30 for santa clara county), notary fees ($20) is what it would take to get this done through a title company. You can chose to do it on your own by walking into the county recording office and avoiding the $200-250 fees that title companies will charge.
Thanks for this, gas_balloon.
Sorry for the late answer on this. I did a refi with Better and my signing papers included two quit claim deeds. One transferring the property out of the trust to my wife and me, then another transferring it back into the trust. Seems like a silly process, but one that they were able to handle at close and I don't believe I paid anything extra to do it. I am in Orange County, CA if that matters. Hope that helps!
Thank you for taking the time to reply, it does help. I'm in LA county, trying to navigate this.
Thanks ChiKid24, this is really useful. I guess my LO is not aware of this - I was just told that they will have one quitclaim deed to move out of the trust, and another will be given to me by the on-site notary, and its up to me to get that submitted and complete.
FWIW, Check with your recorders office for details. The quitclaim deed is complete and notarized so in our case we just had to fill out a declaration value form and pay $42.00. It would be nice if all lenders would handle this step but it was easy task to complete. YMMV.
FiscallyResponsible
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by FiscallyResponsible »

Average Investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:15 pm
anon_investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:39 pm
Average Investor wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:33 pm My "no cost" LE from LenderFi asks me to fund escrow with a year's worth of the tax and insurance at closing. Is that standard practice? I've never had a loan with an escrow account before.

Thank you.
If you waive escrow, they will likely reduce your credits or increase your interest rate, so to keep it no cost, you will likely need to use escrow.

I am not sure about 1 year's worth of tax/insurance though. When I got my initial LE, they listed 6 months worth of taxes/insurance, but when I got my pre-closing discloure (there was no change on the final closing disclosure) escrow was only for 2 months worth of taxes/insurance.
Thanks a lot.

I just received an updated LE, LenderFi rolled escrow into the loan amount so I do not have the bring any $ to close. I'm not crazy about financing the escrow account but the rate is great and doing so will help preserve my emergency fund.

Thank you.
Better would not roll those in without reducing my lender credit by $1000 or so.
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