Refinance Mega Thread

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Shikoku
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Shikoku »

VCC wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:43 pm Some lenders will allow lender credit to be used towards payoff.
That is interesting. Thank you.
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett
diasurfer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by diasurfer »

Shikoku wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:50 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:35 pm
Shikoku wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:27 pm Thank you, BrandonBogle. I wanted to post the screenshot that I have received but it has loan officer's handwriting. So I will skip that. The table is from Loan Cabin, and we know they do not charge a "lender fee." So I am really looking forward to understand what they mean by Closing Cost. The loan officer wrote that they also do not charge any junk fees.
That's good. Sadly they don't write for NC, or else I'd apply! I would lock 2.625% either way, and then let us know when you get the LE how the breakdown looks. But even if it excluded Section C and E, it is an offer worth taking.
So I will wait for the next contact from the loan officer and lock. I also have an LE from LD with 2.625% covering all costs except prepaids. I think Loan Cabin offer is better because my Sections C and E will probably not be more than $1,500. Rest of the chicken I will count if/when an LE is received!
I am trying to get a quote from Loan Cabin. Do you have to apply for the loan before you can see an offer?
Shikoku
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Shikoku »

diasurfer wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:58 pm I am trying to get a quote from Loan Cabin. Do you have to apply for the loan before you can see an offer?
Initially I submitted some basic information but they did not contact me. I then applied and contacted the assigned loan officer. We pickup our food from the drive through two minutes after order. And the loan officer takes three days to respond an e-mail!
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett
3of10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

cskollmann wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:42 pm
F150HD wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:42 pm I can pay $200 extra principal each month and it takes my near 30 year to a 19-20 year and I dont need to refinance to do it. I don't need to do anything really. And if I need the $200 elsewhere I can simply choose to stop paying it where when its locked into a mortgage payment via refi, one cannot. Thats not new news on this board, in fact I learned that on this board and its one reason I haven't done a refi.
Clearly everyones scenario is different.


I haven't read this whole thread and have no plans to do that currently, but which mortgage company do you work for?
Maybe you you should try reading and _understanding_ the discussion before spouting off nonsense and taking a not so veiled shot at someone just trying to help.

Do the math and run the numbers. If you can get a lower rate for no additional costs you come out ahead.
+1. BrandonBogle has done an excellent job in providing his time, and passing on knowledge that has benefited many of us.
diasurfer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by diasurfer »

Shikoku wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:08 pm
diasurfer wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:58 pm I am trying to get a quote from Loan Cabin. Do you have to apply for the loan before you can see an offer?
Initially I submitted some basic information but they did not contact me. I then applied and contacted the assigned loan officer. We pickup our food from the drive through two minutes after order. And the loan officer takes three days to respond an e-mail!
Yes this makes me a little wary, and reluctant to go through an application.

Definitely have some good rates though! Good luck!
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

Karthik wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:51 pm Please help,

76% LTV, 30yr FRM.
Loan options with LC (A= 0, B= 600, C= 3400, E= 150. Title fees seems high, plan to shop around for title. Probably end up with ~$2000)
2.75% with $3500 lender credits (P&I $1402)
2.875% with $5500 lender credits (P&I $1425)

Looking at ~7 year break even between the two options. Which one would be better option? Planning to go with higher credits & refi if rates drop later.

Thanks!
If you plan to refi again this year, then go with the larger lender credit (and profit!).
hbdad
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by hbdad »

Got a no cost 2.75 30 yr offer. Took it to the lender I've used for my last 2 refis. They had previously said they would not match it. But after giving them the LE from lender #1, they decided to match it. On Friday, they did my credit check and I signed some initial Covid disclosures. As of now (Monday 4pm) I still have not received an LE from lender #2. I texted the agent around 11am today, he said they will send it shortly and that the end of the month is busy. Something seems amiss to me. Should I be patient or just tell them to forget about it and continue moving forward with lender #1. Reason why I decided to go with #2 was because I like the loan servicing company they use.
VCC
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by VCC »

Shikoku wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:55 pm
VCC wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:43 pm Some lenders will allow lender credit to be used towards payoff.
That is interesting. Thank you.
Per Fannie Mae, lender credits can also be used towards property insurance premiums or HOA fees. Lenders are also allowed to give a $500 incentive (gift card) separate from any credits. Googling around I did see some lenders offering $500 gift cards.
3of10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

diasurfer wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:13 pm
Shikoku wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:08 pm
diasurfer wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:58 pm I am trying to get a quote from Loan Cabin. Do you have to apply for the loan before you can see an offer?
Initially I submitted some basic information but they did not contact me. I then applied and contacted the assigned loan officer. We pickup our food from the drive through two minutes after order. And the loan officer takes three days to respond an e-mail!
Yes this makes me a little wary, and reluctant to go through an application.

Definitely have some good rates though! Good luck!
Do the application in order to get the LE. I have earlier updated in this thread on the 6 items you'll need to provide to the lender in order to get the LE (no need to verify). Once you've provided the lender with the required data, by regulation they have to provide you with an LE so that you will then have written confirmation of what' they're offering.

Be aware that there will be a deadline on how long that LE will be honored by the lender.
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

hbdad wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:22 pm Got a no cost 2.75 30 yr offer. Took it to the lender I've used for my last 2 refis. They had previously said they would not match it. But after giving them the LE from lender #1, they decided to match it. On Friday, they did my credit check and I signed some initial Covid disclosures. As of now (Monday 4pm) I still have not received an LE from lender #2. I texted the agent around 11am today, he said they will send it shortly and that the end of the month is busy. Something seems amiss to me. Should I be patient or just tell them to forget about it and continue moving forward with lender #1. Reason why I decided to go with #2 was because I like the loan servicing company they use.
If it were me, I'd do the following:
1) Lock with lender #1 so I don't miss out if lender #2 continues to be unresponsive and rates move away from you
2) Tell lender #2 they need to beat lender #1. While the servicing might be of value to you, hopefully you didn't communicate that to them. Instead, I'd say something like "Lender #1 worked hard to get me a great rate and earn my business. It doesn't seem fair to me to have you simply match his quote to earn my business. If you are able to provide a superior offer, I would be happy to lock today. Otherwise, I'd rather not have to redo a bunch of work that I already did with Lender #1

Sorry, but I just really hate the guy that says they'll match another offer. I mean, if you can match it, why not give me your best offer in the first place? If some other guy is doing that to earn my business, you need to beat it to earn it back.
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

Shikoku wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:08 pm
diasurfer wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:58 pm I am trying to get a quote from Loan Cabin. Do you have to apply for the loan before you can see an offer?
Initially I submitted some basic information but they did not contact me. I then applied and contacted the assigned loan officer. We pickup our food from the drive through two minutes after order. And the loan officer takes three days to respond an e-mail!
One thing to watch out for with Loan Cabin that I read in some other post upthread is to beware of the lock period. Their pricing might assume a short rate lock (30-day), but they are taking longer than that to close. If that happens you may need to fight with them on extending their lock, which comes at a cost. If they aren't closing until 45 or 60 days, they really should be showing pricing with rate locks that assume this higher cost.
3of10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

ChiKid24 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:34 pm
hbdad wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:22 pm Got a no cost 2.75 30 yr offer. Took it to the lender I've used for my last 2 refis. They had previously said they would not match it. But after giving them the LE from lender #1, they decided to match it. On Friday, they did my credit check and I signed some initial Covid disclosures. As of now (Monday 4pm) I still have not received an LE from lender #2. I texted the agent around 11am today, he said they will send it shortly and that the end of the month is busy. Something seems amiss to me. Should I be patient or just tell them to forget about it and continue moving forward with lender #1. Reason why I decided to go with #2 was because I like the loan servicing company they use.
If it were me, I'd do the following:
1) Lock with lender #1 so I don't miss out if lender #2 continues to be unresponsive and rates move away from you
2) Tell lender #2 they need to beat lender #1. While the servicing might be of value to you, hopefully you didn't communicate that to them. Instead, I'd say something like "Lender #1 worked hard to get me a great rate and earn my business. It doesn't seem fair to me to have you simply match his quote to earn my business. If you are able to provide a superior offer, I would be happy to lock today. Otherwise, I'd rather not have to redo a bunch of work that I already did with Lender #1

Sorry, but I just really hate the guy that says they'll match another offer. I mean, if you can match it, why not give me your best offer in the first place? If some other guy is doing that to earn my business, you need to beat it to earn it back.
I agree. Just "matching" someone makes no sense. Why should I leave a company who gave me a great offer, in order to give my business to another company who can only "match" the offer?
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by hbdad »

3of10 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:41 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:34 pm
hbdad wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:22 pm Got a no cost 2.75 30 yr offer. Took it to the lender I've used for my last 2 refis. They had previously said they would not match it. But after giving them the LE from lender #1, they decided to match it. On Friday, they did my credit check and I signed some initial Covid disclosures. As of now (Monday 4pm) I still have not received an LE from lender #2. I texted the agent around 11am today, he said they will send it shortly and that the end of the month is busy. Something seems amiss to me. Should I be patient or just tell them to forget about it and continue moving forward with lender #1. Reason why I decided to go with #2 was because I like the loan servicing company they use.
If it were me, I'd do the following:
1) Lock with lender #1 so I don't miss out if lender #2 continues to be unresponsive and rates move away from you
2) Tell lender #2 they need to beat lender #1. While the servicing might be of value to you, hopefully you didn't communicate that to them. Instead, I'd say something like "Lender #1 worked hard to get me a great rate and earn my business. It doesn't seem fair to me to have you simply match his quote to earn my business. If you are able to provide a superior offer, I would be happy to lock today. Otherwise, I'd rather not have to redo a bunch of work that I already did with Lender #1

Sorry, but I just really hate the guy that says they'll match another offer. I mean, if you can match it, why not give me your best offer in the first place? If some other guy is doing that to earn my business, you need to beat it to earn it back.
I agree. Just "matching" someone makes no sense. Why should I leave a company who gave me a great offer, in order to give my business to another company who can only "match" the offer?
What is a reasonable request to beat the existing offer? I don't think they'll be willing or able to drop the rate to 2.625. The appraisal has been waived, would asking them to give me the credit for that in the form of applying it to pre-paids be reasonable?
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tarheel
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tarheel »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:35 pm
Shikoku wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:27 pm Thank you, BrandonBogle. I wanted to post the screenshot that I have received but it has loan officer's handwriting. So I will skip that. The table is from Loan Cabin, and we know they do not charge a "lender fee." So I am really looking forward to understand what they mean by Closing Cost. The loan officer wrote that they also do not charge any junk fees.
That's good. Sadly they don't write for NC, or else I'd apply! I would lock 2.625% either way, and then let us know when you get the LE how the breakdown looks. But even if it excluded Section C and E, it is an offer worth taking.
BrandonBogle - fellow tarheel here. I currently have a 30 year fixed at 3.25% (250K mortgage/400K home) that I got a 2.75% offer from LenderFi with A ($275) + B ($696) +C ($1,262) = $2,364. This is a no-brainer, right? Thanks!
SEAworld9
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by SEAworld9 »

closed this past friday on our second refinance in the last couple months (previous refinance closing was 5/23). locked in mid-june at 2.99% with $4,814 in credits; credits covered all fees and half of prepaids and impounds. $633k loan, 74% LTV.

will look to do this again as rates keep dropping.
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

tarheel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:44 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:35 pm
Shikoku wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:27 pm Thank you, BrandonBogle. I wanted to post the screenshot that I have received but it has loan officer's handwriting. So I will skip that. The table is from Loan Cabin, and we know they do not charge a "lender fee." So I am really looking forward to understand what they mean by Closing Cost. The loan officer wrote that they also do not charge any junk fees.
That's good. Sadly they don't write for NC, or else I'd apply! I would lock 2.625% either way, and then let us know when you get the LE how the breakdown looks. But even if it excluded Section C and E, it is an offer worth taking.
BrandonBogle - fellow tarheel here. I currently have a 30 year fixed at 3.25% (250K mortgage/400K home) that I got a 2.75% offer from LenderFi with A ($275) + B ($696) +C ($1,262) = $2,364. This is a no-brainer, right? Thanks!
I'm not Brandon, and more of a Wahoo than a Tarheel, but I'll weigh in and say this isn't a great offer. Is there a lender credit in Section J? If not, this refi is costing you over $2k. Others (like myself) are getting 2.75% with a lender credit to cover sections A+B+C+E. I've seen some other reports of 2.625% with lender credit to cover those costs. Perhaps rates moved a tad bit up in the last couple weeks.
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

hbdad wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:44 pm
3of10 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:41 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:34 pm
hbdad wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:22 pm Got a no cost 2.75 30 yr offer. Took it to the lender I've used for my last 2 refis. They had previously said they would not match it. But after giving them the LE from lender #1, they decided to match it. On Friday, they did my credit check and I signed some initial Covid disclosures. As of now (Monday 4pm) I still have not received an LE from lender #2. I texted the agent around 11am today, he said they will send it shortly and that the end of the month is busy. Something seems amiss to me. Should I be patient or just tell them to forget about it and continue moving forward with lender #1. Reason why I decided to go with #2 was because I like the loan servicing company they use.
If it were me, I'd do the following:
1) Lock with lender #1 so I don't miss out if lender #2 continues to be unresponsive and rates move away from you
2) Tell lender #2 they need to beat lender #1. While the servicing might be of value to you, hopefully you didn't communicate that to them. Instead, I'd say something like "Lender #1 worked hard to get me a great rate and earn my business. It doesn't seem fair to me to have you simply match his quote to earn my business. If you are able to provide a superior offer, I would be happy to lock today. Otherwise, I'd rather not have to redo a bunch of work that I already did with Lender #1

Sorry, but I just really hate the guy that says they'll match another offer. I mean, if you can match it, why not give me your best offer in the first place? If some other guy is doing that to earn my business, you need to beat it to earn it back.
I agree. Just "matching" someone makes no sense. Why should I leave a company who gave me a great offer, in order to give my business to another company who can only "match" the offer?
What is a reasonable request to beat the existing offer? I don't think they'll be willing or able to drop the rate to 2.625. The appraisal has been waived, would asking them to give me the credit for that in the form of applying it to pre-paids be reasonable?
I'd ask for a lender credit of $1,000 as a starting point and go from there. You don't get 100% of the things you don't ask for ;)
WaffleCone
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WaffleCone »

Loan Depot
30 year fixed, 330K includes paying off HELOC and cash out.
No appraisal. 59% LTV.
2.875% (current rate is 3.75%)

$3950 closing costs not including prepaids. (A+B+C=$4750 less $800 in discount points).
Some of that $3950 includes a "non-negotiable" $1595 in origination.

I can see paying the title for a good rate like this but the origination seems out of line with current market. That said, estimates from better and quicken both less attractive. Can't get the lenderfi backdoor links to work, loan cabin has not replied.

How good of a deal is this considering cash out?
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tarheel
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tarheel »

ChiKid24 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:48 pm
tarheel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:44 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:35 pm
Shikoku wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:27 pm Thank you, BrandonBogle. I wanted to post the screenshot that I have received but it has loan officer's handwriting. So I will skip that. The table is from Loan Cabin, and we know they do not charge a "lender fee." So I am really looking forward to understand what they mean by Closing Cost. The loan officer wrote that they also do not charge any junk fees.
That's good. Sadly they don't write for NC, or else I'd apply! I would lock 2.625% either way, and then let us know when you get the LE how the breakdown looks. But even if it excluded Section C and E, it is an offer worth taking.
BrandonBogle - fellow tarheel here. I currently have a 30 year fixed at 3.25% (250K mortgage/400K home) that I got a 2.75% offer from LenderFi with A ($275) + B ($696) +C ($1,262) = $2,364. This is a no-brainer, right? Thanks!
I'm not Brandon, and more of a Wahoo than a Tarheel, but I'll weigh in and say this isn't a great offer. Is there a lender credit in Section J? If not, this refi is costing you over $2k. Others (like myself) are getting 2.75% with a lender credit to cover sections A+B+C+E. I've seen some other reports of 2.625% with lender credit to cover those costs. Perhaps rates moved a tad bit up in the last couple weeks.
Thanks for the heads up. These numbers are just so much better than I got from better.com and Loan Depot that I thought it was a no brainer. Am I wrong? I'm not going to have a better estimate to show them and I can't use Loan Cabin which apparently is the rock bottom.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

tarheel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:44 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:35 pm
Shikoku wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:27 pm Thank you, BrandonBogle. I wanted to post the screenshot that I have received but it has loan officer's handwriting. So I will skip that. The table is from Loan Cabin, and we know they do not charge a "lender fee." So I am really looking forward to understand what they mean by Closing Cost. The loan officer wrote that they also do not charge any junk fees.
That's good. Sadly they don't write for NC, or else I'd apply! I would lock 2.625% either way, and then let us know when you get the LE how the breakdown looks. But even if it excluded Section C and E, it is an offer worth taking.
BrandonBogle - fellow tarheel here. I currently have a 30 year fixed at 3.25% (250K mortgage/400K home) that I got a 2.75% offer from LenderFi with A ($275) + B ($696) +C ($1,262) = $2,364. This is a no-brainer, right? Thanks!
Assuming that is also a 30-year, that's a strong offer. Your mortgage balance may be able to eek out some lender credits if you shop around, but you are at the point of diminishing returns. Maybe you get $1,000 off the costs, maybe you get 2.625% at about the same price. You will need to decide if it is worth the effort. A bonus of LenderFi is that they proactively reach out after 6 months if they can give you a better "no cost" rate. Again, may not be the best you can shop around for, but it is nice that they just do it for you automatically.

That said, why is Section B so high? Typically that is under $100. Perhaps the appraisal cost is in there? And specifically in Section C, I wouldn't bother shopping around unless you just prefer to use a specific vendor. Back-of-the-envelope, title policy + endorsements 8.1 and 9 + closing protection letter + commitment fee = $413.50, leaving the settlement lawyer's office fees at $848.50. That is a competitive price, as most firms in NC try to charge around $1,200 or even more.
ChiKid24 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:48 pm Perhaps rates moved a tad bit up in the last couple weeks.
Yup. Go to Box.com and you will see a big notice that they've artificially increased the pricing because they got 500% the volume they typically do in July and can't keep up. I've seen other lenders doing the similar negative pricing the past week. Chances are, they will clean up on Thursday or next week though. I've typically found Mondays and Thursdays the best day to shop a loan in the past 2-3 months. That likely has to do with the St. Louis Fed publishing averages on Thursdays and Mondays getting back to business after the markets being closed over the weekend.
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tarheel
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tarheel »

Yeah, it's also a 30 year fixed and the Appraisal Cost ($495) is included in the section B number. Thanks for confirming that it is a strong deal. I did look at better.com and Loan Depot also which were MUCH worse. I will move forward with the lock!

Thanks again Bogleheads, no way I ever would have known about LenderFi without the forum!
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

tarheel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:20 pm Yeah, it's also a 30 year fixed and the Appraisal Cost ($495) is included in the section B number. Thanks for confirming that it is a strong deal. I did look at better.com and Loan Depot also which were MUCH worse. I will move forward with the lock!

Thanks again Bogleheads, no way I ever would have known about LenderFi without the forum!
Hopefully they end up getting an appraisal waiver and make the deal $500 cheaper! Also, LenderFi is not to really play ball once you lock with them, but if you wanted to shop around, you can keep your ear to the ground over the next week or two. Just keep in mind LenderFi, once they get going on your file, work very quickly. I think their average turnaround time (again, once working on your loan) is 15 days.
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tarheel
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tarheel »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:22 pm
tarheel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:20 pm Yeah, it's also a 30 year fixed and the Appraisal Cost ($495) is included in the section B number. Thanks for confirming that it is a strong deal. I did look at better.com and Loan Depot also which were MUCH worse. I will move forward with the lock!

Thanks again Bogleheads, no way I ever would have known about LenderFi without the forum!
Hopefully they end up getting an appraisal waiver and make the deal $500 cheaper! Also, LenderFi is not to really play ball once you lock with them, but if you wanted to shop around, you can keep your ear to the ground over the next week or two. Just keep in mind LenderFi, once they get going on your file, work very quickly. I think their average turnaround time (again, once working on your loan) is 15 days.
I was wondering about that - what is the point of no return? Let's say I lock soon, at what point can't I change my mind? (Not planning on it, just curious).
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simplesimon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by simplesimon »

SEAworld9 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:47 pm closed this past friday on our second refinance in the last couple months (previous refinance closing was 5/23). locked in mid-june at 2.99% with $4,814 in credits; credits covered all fees and half of prepaids and impounds. $633k loan, 74% LTV.

will look to do this again as rates keep dropping.
Who was this with?
3of10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

hbdad wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:44 pm
3of10 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:41 pm
ChiKid24 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:34 pm
hbdad wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:22 pm Got a no cost 2.75 30 yr offer. Took it to the lender I've used for my last 2 refis. They had previously said they would not match it. But after giving them the LE from lender #1, they decided to match it. On Friday, they did my credit check and I signed some initial Covid disclosures. As of now (Monday 4pm) I still have not received an LE from lender #2. I texted the agent around 11am today, he said they will send it shortly and that the end of the month is busy. Something seems amiss to me. Should I be patient or just tell them to forget about it and continue moving forward with lender #1. Reason why I decided to go with #2 was because I like the loan servicing company they use.
If it were me, I'd do the following:
1) Lock with lender #1 so I don't miss out if lender #2 continues to be unresponsive and rates move away from you
2) Tell lender #2 they need to beat lender #1. While the servicing might be of value to you, hopefully you didn't communicate that to them. Instead, I'd say something like "Lender #1 worked hard to get me a great rate and earn my business. It doesn't seem fair to me to have you simply match his quote to earn my business. If you are able to provide a superior offer, I would be happy to lock today. Otherwise, I'd rather not have to redo a bunch of work that I already did with Lender #1

Sorry, but I just really hate the guy that says they'll match another offer. I mean, if you can match it, why not give me your best offer in the first place? If some other guy is doing that to earn my business, you need to beat it to earn it back.
I agree. Just "matching" someone makes no sense. Why should I leave a company who gave me a great offer, in order to give my business to another company who can only "match" the offer?
What is a reasonable request to beat the existing offer? I don't think they'll be willing or able to drop the rate to 2.625. The appraisal has been waived, would asking them to give me the credit for that in the form of applying it to pre-paids be reasonable?
That's a personal decision. For me, it would have to be something over $200 (lender credits). For someone else, it might be anything over $100, or $500, or....
Shikoku
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Shikoku »

tarheel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:44 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:35 pm
Shikoku wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:27 pm Thank you, BrandonBogle. I wanted to post the screenshot that I have received but it has loan officer's handwriting. So I will skip that. The table is from Loan Cabin, and we know they do not charge a "lender fee." So I am really looking forward to understand what they mean by Closing Cost. The loan officer wrote that they also do not charge any junk fees.
That's good. Sadly they don't write for NC, or else I'd apply! I would lock 2.625% either way, and then let us know when you get the LE how the breakdown looks. But even if it excluded Section C and E, it is an offer worth taking.
BrandonBogle - fellow tarheel here. I currently have a 30 year fixed at 3.25% (250K mortgage/400K home) that I got a 2.75% offer from LenderFi with A ($275) + B ($696) +C ($1,262) = $2,364. This is a no-brainer, right? Thanks!
I hope you can get a 2.625% rate where you pay the closing cost or 2.75% rate with zero cost. My loan is little larger than yours, and LD offered me 2.625% with closing cost covered. I have contacted/applied to several places but LenderFi is not one of those because I read in this thread that they have a six months no-refinance policy.
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett
ras4250
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ras4250 »

will a cash out "automatically" make the rate go up? Example: credit over 800, home value ~ $400k, current balance $165k, would like to refi, $200k, so still 50% LTV, NY. Have not applied yet, working through when and where to apply, but will I have a hard time seeing <3% because of cash out?

Similar, what about second home? Would that alone cause rate to go up? And a cash-out for second home? jump even more?
KB8KB24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by KB8KB24 »

How does this offer look?

2.75% 30 Year

A = 0
B=353 (No appraisal)
C= 900
=1249

Lender Credits = 1300

Would it still be worth it to shop around? Planning on sending this LE to Better and asking if they can match. Also do the loan cabin method of searching NMLS and emailing them directly.
VCC
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by VCC »

ras4250 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:12 pm will a cash out "automatically" make the rate go up? Example: credit over 800, home value ~ $400k, current balance $165k, would like to refi, $200k, so still 50% LTV, NY. Have not applied yet, working through when and where to apply, but will I have a hard time seeing <3% because of cash out?

Similar, what about second home? Would that alone cause rate to go up? And a cash-out for second home? jump even more?
Fannie Mae charges a 0.875 fee to cash out refis. On 200k, that's $1,750. Lenders are charging about .25-.5 higher rate to account for that.
wootwoot
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by wootwoot »

Does anyone know who better.com usually sells their loans to and how long it takes them to sell the mortgage after funding it?
cb474
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by cb474 »

bws wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:23 pm I am tempted but i think it could be difficult to get much lower for me again unless rates are being offered at 2% no cost other than prepaids. I'd had to play 3 lenders against each other for this rate. I have a hard time seeing it get to 2%.
Who did you get that deal with?
dstac
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dstac »

F150HD wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:51 pm
cskollmann wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:42 pm
F150HD wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:42 pm I can pay $200 extra principal each month and it takes my near 30 year to a 19-20 year and I dont need to refinance to do it. I don't need to do anything really. And if I need the $200 elsewhere I can simply choose to stop paying it where when its locked into a mortgage payment via refi, one cannot. Thats not new news on this board, in fact I learned that on this board and its one reason I haven't done a refi.
Clearly everyones scenario is different.


I haven't read this whole thread and have no plans to do that currently, but which mortgage company do you work for?
Maybe you you should try reading and _understanding_ the discussion before spouting off nonsense and taking a not so veiled shot at someone just trying to help.

Do the math and run the numbers. If you can get a lower rate for no additional costs you come out ahead.
...stop spouting off nonsense yourself.
You seem to have a misunderstanding of the no cost option. With the lender offering credits to cover all the costs and then some, these are truly no cost to the applicant. As you asked about elsewhere, yes the lender is paying for appraisal, title, & other services with a lender credit. If you can lower your rate at no cost, the payoff period is immediate. the only potential downside Is needing to front load some escrow until you receive it back from prior lender.

I wager if you posted details someone on here could point out some options if you’re interested.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

wootwoot wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:13 pm Does anyone know who better.com usually sells their loans to and how long it takes them to sell the mortgage after funding it?
I closed on a refi with Ally (which is basically Better.com - as the loan documentation listed Better), my loan was sold within a week of funding to Fannie Mae, and servicing was through The Money Source.
Joe Public
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Joe Public »

I've been following this thread and created an account to add another data point:

I currently have a 30-year fixed at 4%, $219K remaining balance, less than 50% LTV, zero-balance HELOC to subordinate, 800+ credit, SoCal.

I spoke with Owning and completed online applications with LenderFi and Better. I emailed Loan Cabin.

Owning has good advertised rates (I think it was 2.375% for 15-year and 2.75% for 30-year, all with no closing costs, when I called), but those rates require a loan balance of at least $300K. A cash-out refinance to get to $300K allows for the advertised rate but triggers a 1.5% origination fee.

I filled out the online application with LenderFi, including authorizing a credit pull, and was assigned to a loan rep. The online rates weren't great, so I called the rep first thing the next morning, told him I was looking at the Owning 30-year for 2.75% and no closing costs. He said he couldn't beat that. I asked him to send me a loan estimate with whatever he could do. Within the hour, I had a loan estimate with A+B+C-credits of about $450 net cost.

I sent that estimate to Better, whose initial online rates were not competitive at all, and they offered A+B+C-credits of about $1,150 net cost as well as the $2500 Amex credit. I asked them to beat LenderFi by $100 without considering the Amex credit, and they countered with A+B+C-credit of about $700 net cost ($1,800 net credit after Amex) as their final offer.

I emailed Loan Cabin, and they said they would email a quote to me. I followed up again the next day, and they said they would respond soon. I followed up another time the next day and have yet to hear back.

I am not looking to spend a lot of time on this, so I locked with Better at their last offer. The whole rate table is locked, so I am considering whether to stay where I am or go to:

30-yr at 2.875% for net credit (A+B+C-credit) of $450 ($2,950 after Amex)
30-yr at 2.625% for net cost of $950 (net credit of $1,550 after Amex)
20-yr at 2.75% for net cost of $350 (net credit of $2,150 after Amex)
15-yr at 2.25% for net cost of $1,950 (net credit of $550 after Amex)
15-yr at 3.0% for net credit of $2,900 ($5,400 after Amex)

I find myself drawn to the 15-year table. I will probably either (1) take the $5K+ for the 3.0% 15-yr and potentially refinance into a lower rate in a few months or (2) take the 2.25% 15-yr and call it good.
cogito
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by cogito »

I just decided on locking with Better for 2.875%, 0 points, $300 in credits after fees (ABC + E), plus the Amex credit (which I just asked for even though I didn't use the link, and they said they would honor). I'm sure I could've done a little better if I grinded it out for another week, but given how slow everyone has been to respond, I figured I would take what I knew was a good deal. It's been 5 days and Loan Cabin and Loan Depot have not given me quotes. Owning and Quicken would match, but without the Amex credit. Even my broker, who is a nice guy, was slow to respond, said he would beat the rate, and then instead of beating it and sending me an LE, spitballed a rough estimate that matched the rate but seemed like it would sneak in about 1k of fees into the loan after his credit. Seems like 2.875% + 2800 bucks was as good as it was gonna get for me this week, actually very happy with it!
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fortfun
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by fortfun »

What is the best/lowest rate company to refi with now-a-days?
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by AerialWombat »

anon_investor wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:54 pm
wootwoot wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:13 pm Does anyone know who better.com usually sells their loans to and how long it takes them to sell the mortgage after funding it?
I closed on a refi with Ally (which is basically Better.com - as the loan documentation listed Better), my loan was sold within a week of funding to Fannie Mae, and servicing was through The Money Source.
This was my same experience when I refinanced a property with Better last year. Money Source sold the servicing to Wells Fargo a couple months later.
manatee2005
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by manatee2005 »

fortfun wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:34 pm What is the best/lowest rate company to refi with now-a-days?
Owning.com
ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 »

fortfun wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:34 pm What is the best/lowest rate company to refi with now-a-days?
I went with Lenderfi. Others have too. Have also seen mentions of competitive rates from Loan Depot, Owning, Loan Cabin, United Wholesale (through a broker like Keystone) and Better. Shop around!
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

tarheel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:25 pm I was wondering about that - what is the point of no return? Let's say I lock soon, at what point can't I change my mind? (Not planning on it, just curious).
Unless LenderFi was already your existing lender (which then would be the closing table is the point of no return), then end of business three days after the closing, not counting the actual day of closing. So if closing was on Monday, you would have until they stop answering their phones/emails on Thursday to back out of the deal.
KB8KB24 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:56 pm How does this offer look?

2.75% 30 Year

A = 0
B=353 (No appraisal)
C= 900
=1249

Lender Credits = 1300

Would it still be worth it to shop around? Planning on sending this LE to Better and asking if they can match. Also do the loan cabin method of searching NMLS and emailing them directly.
Unless you signed up for the Amex offer at Better already, I wouldn't bother sending it to them unless you prefer them/don't like who made you this offer. Without the Amex promo, their guarantee is to beat the offer by $100. Better was very popular lately because they would try to match/beat offers you brought them, then also pay $2,500 to you via your Amex on top of that. Without the latter piece, they are no more competitive than anyone else -- or even less so since 95% of the time, they don't give you a competitive offer unless you bring one to them from another lender. As was said upthread to some folks, unless they are beating it by a good bit, it may not be worth the effort.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by oldcomputerguy »

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jfmiii
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jfmiii »

SEAworld9 wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:47 pm closed this past friday on our second refinance in the last couple months (previous refinance closing was 5/23). locked in mid-june at 2.99% with $4,814 in credits; credits covered all fees and half of prepaids and impounds. $633k loan, 74% LTV.

will look to do this again as rates keep dropping.
can you share the lender? was this a jumbo or are you in a higher conforming location?
5280Tim
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 5280Tim »

5280Tim wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:25 pm
bws wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:17 am
5280Tim wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:06 am I sent better my LE and they came back with a 2.75% 30 year with $11,000 in closing costs! :shock:

I think I’m going to stick with my 2.57% with $2k to close.
Did you try Watermark?
I’ll look into them. I’m pretty happy with the 2.57% offer.
I submitted a request to Watermark but have not heard back from them. No big deal, we are clear to close on our deal with Selfi: 2.576%, 29 year term, 72% LTV, .46% points.

It isn’t a no-cost, but our break even point is 4 months, so I’m not worried about the small out of pocket cost. I can’t believe mortgage rates are this low.
keystone
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by keystone »

I have decided to go with Watermark for a 15 year FRM @ 2.25%. My A+B+C+E less lender credits amounts to -$279. This was considerably better than anything I received at Better or Lenderfi and Lenderfi did not even respond to my suggestion to counter Watermark.

This is a good deal for me, shaving off 1% from my interest rate at no cost, actually slightly less than no cost.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by diasurfer »

I talked to Loan Depot and they are offering a competitive rate and closing costs, and 60 day lock, but just over the phone. Apparently I have to "sign some things" before getting the discount in writing (a Loan Estimate) to prevent shopping around. Has this been other people's experience working with them?

Has anyone had success just refinancing with their current company (Provident Funding for me)? Seems like they would be motivated to keep you, and shouldn't closing costs be lower?
leviathan
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by leviathan »

I need to decide on Title company for my recent refinancing with Better.
My property is in Maryland. I have been using a local title company. But I'm thinking about trying someone else.
1) Title365 Company is listed in the loan estimate. Do they provide a good service?
2) I saw a company named "Title Forward" mentioned somewhere. Are they good?
Any thoughts?
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

keystone wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:08 am I have decided to go with Watermark for a 15 year FRM @ 2.25%. My A+B+C+E less lender credits amounts to -$279. This was considerably better than anything I received at Better or Lenderfi and Lenderfi did not even respond to my suggestion to counter Watermark.

This is a good deal for me, shaving off 1% from my interest rate at no cost, actually slightly less than no cost.
Curious is the Watermark you are referring to this one: watermarkhomeloans.com?
fz583
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by fz583 »

Has anyone used first reliance capital? And with any good results? Waiting to hear back from them at the moment. Thanks
nickpete123
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nickpete123 »

diasurfer wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:45 am I talked to Loan Depot and they are offering a competitive rate and closing costs, and 60 day lock, but just over the phone. Apparently I have to "sign some things" before getting the discount in writing (a Loan Estimate) to prevent shopping around. Has this been other people's experience working with them?

Has anyone had success just refinancing with their current company (Provident Funding for me)? Seems like they would be motivated to keep you, and shouldn't closing costs be lower?

I'm locked with another lender but after not being able to get a competitive offer last friday I received an email from LD to call a "Special" number to get reduces rates/fees than I was originally offered. They said they would beat whatever I had. Sent them my current LE and waiting for a call back.
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tarheel
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tarheel »

nickpete123 wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:28 am
diasurfer wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:45 am I talked to Loan Depot and they are offering a competitive rate and closing costs, and 60 day lock, but just over the phone. Apparently I have to "sign some things" before getting the discount in writing (a Loan Estimate) to prevent shopping around. Has this been other people's experience working with them?

Has anyone had success just refinancing with their current company (Provident Funding for me)? Seems like they would be motivated to keep you, and shouldn't closing costs be lower?

I'm locked with another lender but after not being able to get a competitive offer last friday I received an email from LD to call a "Special" number to get reduces rates/fees than I was originally offered. They said they would beat whatever I had. Sent them my current LE and waiting for a call back.
This kind of stuff is ridiculous. I have a nice offer from LenderFi on the table, and the Loan Depot agent gave me a horrible LE and said basically that I need to lock with LenderFi and then he'll beat it. Ridiculous. Good luck with the "special" number, what a joke.
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