Refinance Mega Thread

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Shikoku
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Shikoku »

2quiker wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:25 pm
Shikoku wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:49 pm I have been offered a 2.625% 30Y FRM. Lender credit $2,500. Origination fee $1,500. No escrow account. No appraisal required. No other information on fees/costs have been received even after asking. Yet to apply. Michigan property. I am looking for some guidelines to figure out the breakdown of the closing costs and any relevant information. Thank you all for your collective wisdom on this very helpful thread.
Through what lender?
Flagstar Bank.
"I don't worry too much about pointing fingers at the past. I operate on the theory that every saint has a past, every sinner has a future." -- Warren Buffett
just_me
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by just_me »

Is this worth it?

Better - 15 year $150k loan at 2.875% (Current mortgage 10 years left $121k at 4.25% combines with Heloc $28k at 3.25% (adj) with 5 years left). Closing Costs $5,500 and AMEX credit.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

Investor1319 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:51 pm Just got an offer from Better that beat LenderFi by $100 plus the $2,500.00 AmEx credit.

2.625%
No closing costs
20 year fixed
$2,500.00 AmEx credit. Just opening a card now and they said we would still get the AmEx credit.
State - NJ

Does this sound good? Is Better reputable?

Thanks!
Yes, Better is reputable.
Soares1234
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Soares1234 »

newbinvestor wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:41 pm I am closing on a mortgage on Friday. It is a conventional mortgage at 3%, which was locked at the end of last month. I’ve spoken with friends using the same broker that I used and they are getting 2.5% on new applications. My question is this - Is there a time frame that you are generally not allowed to refinance within? I’ve contemplated exploring taking advantage of the Better Mortgage $2500 Amex offer and using their price match to meet the best price I can find. The issue is that in order to take advantage, I’ve got to apply by 7/25 (a day after closing on my loan). Is this a reasonable thought process? Any other potential holdups?
Can you share the broker?
Soares1234
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Soares1234 »

just_me wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:16 pm Is this worth it?

Better - 15 year $150k loan at 2.875% (Current mortgage 10 years left $121k at 4.25% combines with Heloc $28k at 3.25% (adj) with 5 years left). Closing Costs $5,500 and AMEX credit.
I don’t think. 2.875 is around the same price of the 30yr. Search back a little. I am sure you will see better rates.
supersharpie
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by supersharpie »

Investor1319 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:51 pm Just got an offer from Better that beat LenderFi by $100 plus the $2,500.00 AmEx credit.

2.625%
No closing costs
20 year fixed
$2,500.00 AmEx credit. Just opening a card now and they said we would still get the AmEx credit.
State - NJ

Does this sound good? Is Better reputable?

Thanks!
So, who pays the third party fees? Better?

I know this is a ridiculously basic question. I am curious because I am getting nowhere near these rates on Better, despite having a high credit score. They are quoting me an APR a touch over 3% for a 20 year plus I would be required to pay close to $4000 in points to secure that rate.

How precisely do I go about getting Better to offer me a 2.625% 20 year fixed mortgage with no closing costs? Is it simply matter of emailing my mortgage consultant and saying, “here are the terms I will agree to, take it or leave it”?
soxpatsbos
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by soxpatsbos »

Investor1319 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:51 pm Just got an offer from Better that beat LenderFi by $100 plus the $2,500.00 AmEx credit.

2.625%
No closing costs
20 year fixed
$2,500.00 AmEx credit. Just opening a card now and they said we would still get the AmEx credit.
State - NJ

Does this sound good? Is Better reputable?

Thanks!
A lot of people here have refied through Better. Rate seems good.
Investor1319
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Investor1319 »

supersharpie wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:48 pm
Investor1319 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:51 pm Just got an offer from Better that beat LenderFi by $100 plus the $2,500.00 AmEx credit.

2.625%
No closing costs
20 year fixed
$2,500.00 AmEx credit. Just opening a card now and they said we would still get the AmEx credit.
State - NJ

Does this sound good? Is Better reputable?

Thanks!
So, who pays the third party fees? Better?

I know this is a ridiculously basic question. I am curious because I am getting nowhere near these rates on Better, despite having a high credit score. They are quoting me an APR a touch over 3% for a 20 year plus I would be required to pay close to $4000 in points to secure that rate.

How precisely do I go about getting Better to offer me a 2.625% 20 year fixed mortgage with no closing costs? Is it simply matter of emailing my mortgage consultant and saying, “here are the terms I will agree to, take it or leave it”?
I've gotten so much help from the Bogleheads and am more than happy to share what worked for us!! We got a similar initial quote as you did from Better with $4,000 in closing costs. Then we got a 2.625% on $495K loan for 20 year fixed thru LenderFi with no closing costs. We would have just gone with that quote, but knew about the $2,500 AmEx credit from this thread and didn't want to miss out on it. Once we had LenderFi's quote, we went back to Better and they asked us to send them LenderFi's loan estimate which they then beat by $100 in total....which isn't a lot of money, but because of the $2,500 AmEx credit is completely worth it!! So my advice is to get a quote from LenderFi and then take it to Better to beat!

Good luck!! Let us know how you make out!!
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

mervinj7 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:07 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:38 pm
new2bogle wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:01 pm
soxpatsbos wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:46 pm Seeking feedback on these charges of the loan estimate, any pointers will be super helpful. Thanks in advance!
2.75% 30Y/Fixed

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TuV37e ... sp=sharing
Lender's title insurance of $575 is insane. In TX, this always north of $2,000.
Then you will hate my NC lender's title insurance of $175!
Is it also a function of the size of the loan?
Yes. $102.50 for the first $100k + $0.80 per thousand over it, up to $500k. Rates continue to tier at like $2MM and so on.
supersharpie
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by supersharpie »

Investor1319 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:16 pm
supersharpie wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:48 pm
Investor1319 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:51 pm Just got an offer from Better that beat LenderFi by $100 plus the $2,500.00 AmEx credit.

2.625%
No closing costs
20 year fixed
$2,500.00 AmEx credit. Just opening a card now and they said we would still get the AmEx credit.
State - NJ

Does this sound good? Is Better reputable?

Thanks!
So, who pays the third party fees? Better?

I know this is a ridiculously basic question. I am curious because I am getting nowhere near these rates on Better, despite having a high credit score. They are quoting me an APR a touch over 3% for a 20 year plus I would be required to pay close to $4000 in points to secure that rate.

How precisely do I go about getting Better to offer me a 2.625% 20 year fixed mortgage with no closing costs? Is it simply matter of emailing my mortgage consultant and saying, “here are the terms I will agree to, take it or leave it”?
I've gotten so much help from the Bogleheads and am more than happy to share what worked for us!! We got a similar initial quote as you did from Better with $4,000 in closing costs. Then we got a 2.625% on $495K loan for 20 year fixed thru LenderFi with no closing costs. We would have just gone with that quote, but knew about the $2,500 AmEx credit from this thread and didn't want to miss out on it. Once we had LenderFi's quote, we went back to Better and they asked us to send them LenderFi's loan estimate which they then beat by $100 in total....which isn't a lot of money, but because of the $2,500 AmEx credit is completely worth it!! So my advice is to get a quote from LenderFi and then take it to Better to beat!

Good luck!! Let us know how you make out!!
Thanks! Unfortunately LenderFi is not currently accepting new applications so it may be tough to secure a competitive rate.
jimmyrules712
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jimmyrules712 »

supersharpie wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:33 pm
Investor1319 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:16 pm
supersharpie wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:48 pm
Investor1319 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:51 pm Just got an offer from Better that beat LenderFi by $100 plus the $2,500.00 AmEx credit.

2.625%
No closing costs
20 year fixed
$2,500.00 AmEx credit. Just opening a card now and they said we would still get the AmEx credit.
State - NJ

Does this sound good? Is Better reputable?

Thanks!
So, who pays the third party fees? Better?

I know this is a ridiculously basic question. I am curious because I am getting nowhere near these rates on Better, despite having a high credit score. They are quoting me an APR a touch over 3% for a 20 year plus I would be required to pay close to $4000 in points to secure that rate.

How precisely do I go about getting Better to offer me a 2.625% 20 year fixed mortgage with no closing costs? Is it simply matter of emailing my mortgage consultant and saying, “here are the terms I will agree to, take it or leave it”?
I've gotten so much help from the Bogleheads and am more than happy to share what worked for us!! We got a similar initial quote as you did from Better with $4,000 in closing costs. Then we got a 2.625% on $495K loan for 20 year fixed thru LenderFi with no closing costs. We would have just gone with that quote, but knew about the $2,500 AmEx credit from this thread and didn't want to miss out on it. Once we had LenderFi's quote, we went back to Better and they asked us to send them LenderFi's loan estimate which they then beat by $100 in total....which isn't a lot of money, but because of the $2,500 AmEx credit is completely worth it!! So my advice is to get a quote from LenderFi and then take it to Better to beat!

Good luck!! Let us know how you make out!!
Thanks! Unfortunately LenderFi is not currently accepting new applications so it may be tough to secure a competitive rate.
You can still apply with LenderFi if you use a backdoor link like this: https://www.lenderfi.com/apply-online/

They only hid the application button on the front page to deter the less motivated applicants.
cskollmann
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by cskollmann »

cskollmann wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:55 am
kski74 wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:04 pm
cskollmann wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:18 pm
Applied with them today, quoted 3% for a no cost 30 year fixed. Hopefully it all goes smoothly as that is the best I've seen for Massachusetts. My usual guy quoted 2.99% but with closing costs equal to a month's mortgage payment.
Keep us posted! Would love to hear how they do. Considering another refinance in MA as well.
So far so good with RateRabbit. Signed the initial disclosures yesterday on a 3% 30 year. Closing cost details showed total fees of $3248, but offset by a lender credit so the only potential cash to close from us is prepaid interest.

The president gave me a call when I applied and was curious about Bogleheads as he said he had never heard of the site but had gotten multiple well qualified applicants recently. He did share that closing would take a little longer than usual as they are swamped.
Scheduled to close tomorrow. The attorney is coming to our house and we'll sign outside at a distance.

So communication was slow after application, but they had warned me that would be the case and they wouldn't be able to meet the 30 day close advertised on their website due to the number of applications they are processing and would honor the locked rate. Then they called me to say they were preparing the final closing and could drop me from 3% to 2.875% still at no cost. Final numbers ended up being a $3,876.65 lender credit to offset all closing costs aside from prepaid interest and property taxes.

Overall very happy to get 2.87% on a 30 year. I saw Lenderfi offering 2.75% on some days during the process but at some point I figure it's worth getting the deal done instead of continually chasing better offers. I wish Better operated in Massachusetts...
need403bhelp
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by need403bhelp »

Anyone actually applied with LoanCabin and proceeding through the process?

I would like 2.625% to refinance again, and LoanCabin is showing way below that rate (so likely 2.625% no cost given our relatively high closing costs here) and other lenders that I have been watching aren't quite meeting a true no-cost refi for that amount, even if I can get Better to kick in $2,500 AmEx credit again.

Thanks!
ras4250
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ras4250 »

LenderFi and Loan Cabin not available in New York. :thumbsdown Any other top recommendations for NY? Will try Better, Caliber, and Quicken.
WannabeEarlyRetiree
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WannabeEarlyRetiree »

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JimmyD
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by JimmyD »

Applied with Better yesterday for a 15 year refi of $237K on a home worth $420K. 800 FICO.

Came back with my desired rate of 2.25%...for over $12K in closing costs! $4K of that in points.

Obviously going to be a no go unless they call and are willing to come back down to earth.
bws
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bws »

JimmyD wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:49 am Applied with Better yesterday for a 15 year refi of $237K on a home worth $420K. 800 FICO.

Came back with my desired rate of 2.25%...for over $12K in closing costs! $4K of that in points.

Obviously going to be a no go unless they call and are willing to come back down to earth.
Need to get a competitive rate and Better may match
ensign_lee
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ensign_lee »

just_me wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:16 pm Is this worth it?

Better - 15 year $150k loan at 2.875% (Current mortgage 10 years left $121k at 4.25% combines with Heloc $28k at 3.25% (adj) with 5 years left). Closing Costs $5,500 and AMEX credit.
Eww, not even a little bit. You can get a no cost refinance for 30 years at that interest rate.
dcw213
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dcw213 »

I am about to close with Better and was told that I will receive the $2,500 statement credit within 8-12 weeks after closing.

Seems like I did not get a great rate (3.25% for a no cost). I may want to try to do better but am about to close. Does anyone know if the loan has to be active to get the statement credit? In other words, in theory if I refinance shortly after closing and my Better loan is paid off before the statement credit hits would that impact my ability to get it? Definitely not interested in doing anything that would make me lose out on the credit.

Thanks for all this great information on this thread!
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

JimmyD wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:49 am Applied with Better yesterday for a 15 year refi of $237K on a home worth $420K. 800 FICO.

Came back with my desired rate of 2.25%...for over $12K in closing costs! $4K of that in points.

Obviously going to be a no go unless they call and are willing to come back down to earth.
Definitely see if you can apply at LenderFi, there is another post with a work around since they took down the apply button on their main page. They definitely gave me the best rate. Better would not match it, would have been nice to snag that $2.5k Amex statement credit.
keystone
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by keystone »

JimmyD wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:49 am Applied with Better yesterday for a 15 year refi of $237K on a home worth $420K. 800 FICO.

Came back with my desired rate of 2.25%...for over $12K in closing costs! $4K of that in points.

Obviously going to be a no go unless they call and are willing to come back down to earth.
This is very similar to my quote, about $5K in points, FICO score over 800, LTV about 52%. I'm not even close to considering at this point. I have opened up an application through LenderFi using the backdoor channel so hopefully that will give me a better option.

I've been monitoring the discussion on the Slickdeals forum and am amazed at the deals people are getting. I'm nowhere close to that at this point.
jimmyrules712
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jimmyrules712 »

I would appreciate opinions on which path I should take.

I have a refi with LenderFi scheduled to close in about 1 week. 30 yr, 2.875%, A+B+C = $1764, Lender Credit $1794. Includes the 6 months restriction on refinancing again. No appraisal was required.

I also just got a new LE from Watermark. 30 yr, 2.75%, A+B+C = $3100, Lender Credit $3,000. The agent told me it may take them 60 days to close due to their workload. Agent is assuming appraisal won't be required but won't know until after I lock.

Is it worth backing out of the LenderFi refinance to start the process back at the beginning? Are there any significant consequences of backing out of LenderFi at this point? I haven't paid anything out of pocket and they did not require an appraisal. Has anyone in this situation had luck going back to the lender they locked with and getting a rate reduction?
tbone555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tbone555 »

Just closed with Better two days ago 3% 30-year.

Apply with LenderFi today and had this exchange with the Loan Officer:

Him: You literally JUST closed your loan and you’re looking to refinance? Why would you close and do this? You’re going to cost that other bank $8,000+ in penalties for doing that to them. Do not fund your loan and do that to someone or don’t refinance

Me: Interest rates went down. They didn't want to lower my rate after locking. How long do I need to wait so they don't lose the $8k+?

Him: 180 days. And we wouldn’t do the same thing. When you lock you lock, if rates went up would you expect them to increase your rate? If you would do this to them you will do it to us so we will pass on trying to earn your business, sorry

Me: Thanks.
Hefph
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Hefph »

Going through a refinance now. Locked in 2.875% with no closing costs, 30 years, fixed. Any opinions on if this is a good rate?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

jimmyrules712 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:49 am I also just got a new LE from Watermark. 30 yr, 2.75%, A+B+C = $3100, Lender Credit $3,000. The agent told me it may take them 60 days to close due to their workload. Agent is assuming appraisal won't be required but won't know until after I lock.

Is it worth backing out of the LenderFi refinance to start the process back at the beginning? Are there any significant consequences of backing out of LenderFi at this point?
I wouldn't consider doing anything without a lock loan estimate. Locking doesn't obligate you to anything. You will still need to submit their "Intent To Proceed" after locking. So lock, get the locked LE from Watermark, then decide what to do.
2quiker
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 2quiker »

Investor1319 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:51 pm Just got an offer from Better that beat LenderFi by $100 plus the $2,500.00 AmEx credit.

2.625%
No closing costs
20 year fixed
$2,500.00 AmEx credit. Just opening a card now and they said we would still get the AmEx credit.
State - NJ

Does this sound good? Is Better reputable?

Thanks!
My experience wasn't so great with Better, Lenderfi wouldn't respond to my emails.
2quiker
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 2quiker »

Hefph wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:55 am Going through a refinance now. Locked in 2.875% with no closing costs, 30 years, fixed. Any opinions on if this is a good rate?
Through what lender?
Hefph
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Hefph »

2quiker wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:24 am
Hefph wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:55 am Going through a refinance now. Locked in 2.875% with no closing costs, 30 years, fixed. Any opinions on if this is a good rate?
Through what lender?
Veterans United.
2quiker
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 2quiker »

tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 am Just closed with Better two days ago 3% 30-year.

Apply with LenderFi today and had this exchange with the Loan Officer:

Him: You literally JUST closed your loan and you’re looking to refinance? Why would you close and do this? You’re going to cost that other bank $8,000+ in penalties for doing that to them. Do not fund your loan and do that to someone or don’t refinance

Me: Interest rates went down. They didn't want to lower my rate after locking. How long do I need to wait so they don't lose the $8k+?

Him: 180 days. And we wouldn’t do the same thing. When you lock you lock, if rates went up would you expect them to increase your rate? If you would do this to them you will do it to us so we will pass on trying to earn your business, sorry

Me: Thanks.
Do blame them? I believe there is a waiting period (six months) after you refi, if you refi before that waiting period the bank/lender can be hit with a penalty.
tbone555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tbone555 »

2quiker wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:34 am
tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 am Just closed with Better two days ago 3% 30-year.

Apply with LenderFi today and had this exchange with the Loan Officer:

Him: You literally JUST closed your loan and you’re looking to refinance? Why would you close and do this? You’re going to cost that other bank $8,000+ in penalties for doing that to them. Do not fund your loan and do that to someone or don’t refinance

Me: Interest rates went down. They didn't want to lower my rate after locking. How long do I need to wait so they don't lose the $8k+?

Him: 180 days. And we wouldn’t do the same thing. When you lock you lock, if rates went up would you expect them to increase your rate? If you would do this to them you will do it to us so we will pass on trying to earn your business, sorry

Me: Thanks.
Do blame them? I believe there is a waiting period after you refi, if you refi before that waiting period the bank/lender can be hit with a penalty.
I don't blame him, but is this really my problem. That's the way the system is set up. I'm not breaking any laws.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 am Just closed with Better two days ago 3% 30-year.

Apply with LenderFi today and had this exchange with the Loan Officer:

Him: You literally JUST closed your loan and you’re looking to refinance? Why would you close and do this? You’re going to cost that other bank $8,000+ in penalties for doing that to them. Do not fund your loan and do that to someone or don’t refinance

Me: Interest rates went down. They didn't want to lower my rate after locking. How long do I need to wait so they don't lose the $8k+?

Him: 180 days. And we wouldn’t do the same thing. When you lock you lock, if rates went up would you expect them to increase your rate? If you would do this to them you will do it to us so we will pass on trying to earn your business, sorry

Me: Thanks.
Wow. Interesting, I definitely did not have a conversation with them like that and I had completed a refi in May with Ally (definitely not 180 days, but the loan agreement does not mention anything about a penalty), when I applied with LenderFi a couple of weeks ago. But when I locked, the Loan officer did tell me to please not lock if I was planning to shop around and not really close with them (they had already given me a LE by that point which I would have used to shop around). I am closing with LenderFi on Monday (2.75% 30 yr fixed no cost). I have no intention to refi again this year, so the supposed 6 month clawback (I am not entirely sure this clawback is legally enforcable) with LenderFi is not an issue for me.
Hefph wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:55 am Going through a refinance now. Locked in 2.875% with no closing costs, 30 years, fixed. Any opinions on if this is a good rate?
I think you might be able to do better. I locked a 2.75% 30 yr fixed no cost refi with LenderFi this month, and I have read others have locked similar recently.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:35 am
2quiker wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:34 am Do blame them? I believe there is a waiting period after you refi, if you refi before that waiting period the bank/lender can be hit with a penalty.
I don't blame him, but is this really my problem. That's the way the system is set up. I'm not breaking any laws.
Meanwhile, I refi’d with one lender in May and I’m refi’ing again in July with the SAME lender. They have no problem with it. But a key problem with the industry here is that most loan officers are paid on commission. This means the LO doesn’t earn anything on the quick refi loan as their pay will have a 6-month clawback alongside the lender itself having it. So they are spooked. The lender I’m working with doesn’t pay commissions, so their loan officers aren’t afraid of their paychecks (but also are less motivated to be “the best” as they will get paid whether you get the loan or not).
tbone555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tbone555 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:41 am
tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:35 am
2quiker wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:34 am Do blame them? I believe there is a waiting period after you refi, if you refi before that waiting period the bank/lender can be hit with a penalty.
I don't blame him, but is this really my problem. That's the way the system is set up. I'm not breaking any laws.
Meanwhile, I refi’d with one lender in May and I’m refi’ing again in July with the SAME lender. They have no problem with it. But a key problem with the industry here is that most loan officers are paid on commission. This means the LO doesn’t earn anything on the quick refi loan as their pay will have a 6-month clawback alongside the lender itself having it. So they are spooked. The lender I’m working with doesn’t pay commissions, so their loan officers aren’t afraid of their paychecks (but also are less motivated to be “the best” as they will get paid whether you get the loan or not).
Interesting. I feel for the LO, but they have chosen this career and these are the risks. Am I supposed to worry more about his commission or having more each month to save for my kids education?
3of10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:29 am
dsmil wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:55 am E,F,G, and H can usually be ignored, and you'll receive a refund of your current escrow account to offset much of that.
Just a note that E should not be ignored. If one doesn’t refinance, F and G costs will still be incurred, but E won’t. So E is a cost of a refinance. While in many places it may be a small amount (for me in NC, it was $64), in some places it can be much larger (in NY it will be in the thousands). That can make a significant different in calculations about whether to refi or not.
+1. Good catch BrandonBogle. It's up to the consumer to try to know what the transfer taxes are for their state for a refi. In section E, Better listed my transfer taxes as $5500. I knew something was wrong, and went back and looked at a previous refi I've done, and the transfer taxes were $0. So, I knew that Better had made a mistake (which they later acknowledged).

If I was a novice at this, I would have made the mistake of comparing Better's incorrect "total cost" numbers (which included the $5500) against other LEs, which would have been a huge mistake on my part.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

3of10 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:16 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:29 am
dsmil wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:55 am E,F,G, and H can usually be ignored, and you'll receive a refund of your current escrow account to offset much of that.
Just a note that E should not be ignored. If one doesn’t refinance, F and G costs will still be incurred, but E won’t. So E is a cost of a refinance. While in many places it may be a small amount (for me in NC, it was $64), in some places it can be much larger (in NY it will be in the thousands). That can make a significant different in calculations about whether to refi or not.
+1. Good catch BrandonBogle. It's up to the consumer to try to know what the transfer taxes are for their state for a refi. In section E, Better listed my transfer taxes as $5500. I knew something was wrong, and went back and looked at a previous refi I've done, and the transfer taxes were $0. So, I knew that Better had made a mistake (which they later acknowledged).

If I was a novice at this, I would have made the mistake of comparing Better's incorrect "total cost" numbers (which included the $5500) against other LEs, which would have been a huge mistake on my part.
I'm glad you caught that. Sounds like, if you hadn't, you would have gone elsewhere and the terms (at the time) might not have been as good as what you got.

I also like to find my own company for Section C title services. I may not use them, but if I get any LE with a higher Section C cost than I can find from my preferred provider, I don't hold that against the lender. Once in a blue moon I find other lenders even cheaper. For instance, after all the fees, my Section C locally is $1050 or so. loanDepot had $675 in Section C. Legally they cannot charge more (except for the actual policy cost since that is based on loan amount), but they can charge less. So I did use their Section C in comparing offers, but used my local provider on the other offers to compare against.

Basically, you need to normalize things to make sure you are comparing apples-to-apples. I would say the same thing when talking investments!
nic3456
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 am Just closed with Better two days ago 3% 30-year.

Apply with LenderFi today and had this exchange with the Loan Officer:

Him: You literally JUST closed your loan and you’re looking to refinance? Why would you close and do this? You’re going to cost that other bank $8,000+ in penalties for doing that to them. Do not fund your loan and do that to someone or don’t refinance

Me: Interest rates went down. They didn't want to lower my rate after locking. How long do I need to wait so they don't lose the $8k+?

Him: 180 days. And we wouldn’t do the same thing. When you lock you lock, if rates went up would you expect them to increase your rate? If you would do this to them you will do it to us so we will pass on trying to earn your business, sorry

Me: Thanks.

Wow that really rubs me the wrong way. Its not my fault the bank/industry is setup this way. So he literally wants me to pay/miss out on savings so they don't? If this is an issue for the bank then they need to write clawbacks, etc into the refis that they offer, not make me feel bad for doing what's in my best interest.
tbone555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tbone555 »

nic3456 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:35 am
tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 am Just closed with Better two days ago 3% 30-year.

Apply with LenderFi today and had this exchange with the Loan Officer:

Him: You literally JUST closed your loan and you’re looking to refinance? Why would you close and do this? You’re going to cost that other bank $8,000+ in penalties for doing that to them. Do not fund your loan and do that to someone or don’t refinance

Me: Interest rates went down. They didn't want to lower my rate after locking. How long do I need to wait so they don't lose the $8k+?

Him: 180 days. And we wouldn’t do the same thing. When you lock you lock, if rates went up would you expect them to increase your rate? If you would do this to them you will do it to us so we will pass on trying to earn your business, sorry

Me: Thanks.

Wow that really rubs me the wrong way. Its not my fault the bank/industry is setup this way. So he literally wants me to pay/miss out on savings so they don't? If this is an issue for the bank then they need to write clawbacks, etc into the refis that they offer, not make me feel bad for doing what's in my best interest.
Maybe he was more sensitive to this because LenderFi does have a claw-back clause while most others don't. We went back and forth on email and came to somewhat of an understanding. He apologized for his tone. He was walking his dog and my message seems to have rubbed Hime the wrong way. Maybe he has been losing many commissions lately.
tbone555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tbone555 »

I just realized that I started filling out the LenderFi application a few days before my Better closing. Maybe this is why he was annoyed with me.
Hoosier CPA
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Hoosier CPA »

tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 am Just closed with Better two days ago 3% 30-year.

Apply with LenderFi today and had this exchange with the Loan Officer:

Him: You literally JUST closed your loan and you’re looking to refinance? Why would you close and do this? You’re going to cost that other bank $8,000+ in penalties for doing that to them. Do not fund your loan and do that to someone or don’t refinance

Me: Interest rates went down. They didn't want to lower my rate after locking. How long do I need to wait so they don't lose the $8k+?

Him: 180 days. And we wouldn’t do the same thing. When you lock you lock, if rates went up would you expect them to increase your rate? If you would do this to them you will do it to us so we will pass on trying to earn your business, sorry

Me: Thanks.
Anyone know if this penalty is legitimate? I refi-d with my existing lender earlier this month (on 7/2) and am now working with Better. Better is continually asking for more info, but if I can beat the rate and get the $2,500 Amex credit, then I'm all for it. However I'm not sure I want to stick my existing lender with an $8K bill. I don't like the ethics of that.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

Hoosier CPA wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:42 am
tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 am Just closed with Better two days ago 3% 30-year.

Apply with LenderFi today and had this exchange with the Loan Officer:

Him: You literally JUST closed your loan and you’re looking to refinance? Why would you close and do this? You’re going to cost that other bank $8,000+ in penalties for doing that to them. Do not fund your loan and do that to someone or don’t refinance

Me: Interest rates went down. They didn't want to lower my rate after locking. How long do I need to wait so they don't lose the $8k+?

Him: 180 days. And we wouldn’t do the same thing. When you lock you lock, if rates went up would you expect them to increase your rate? If you would do this to them you will do it to us so we will pass on trying to earn your business, sorry

Me: Thanks.
Anyone know if this penalty is legitimate? I refi-d with my existing lender earlier this month (on 7/2) and am now working with Better. Better is continually asking for more info, but if I can beat the rate and get the $2,500 Amex credit, then I'm all for it. However I'm not sure I want to stick my existing lender with an $8K bill. I don't like the ethics of that.
No idea if it is legit. But I am pretty sure the potential of them getting hit with a $8k clawback is priced into the rate and credits they offer. They probably assume a certain number of refis will result in a clawback. Maybe that is why LenderFi offers such a low rate and generous lenders credits, because they have the clawback. Whether the LenderFi clawback is enforcable is another story, but the provision may be a deterent to people doing refis less than 6 months later, so their loss rate is lower so they can offer lower rates with larger credits. Just my 2 cents.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Hoosier CPA wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:42 am Anyone know if this penalty is legitimate? I refi-d with my existing lender earlier this month (on 7/2) and am now working with Better. Better is continually asking for more info, but if I can beat the rate and get the $2,500 Amex credit, then I'm all for it. However I'm not sure I want to stick my existing lender with an $8K bill. I don't like the ethics of that.
I don't know if $8k is accurate. What is though is when a direct lender sells a loan to an investor, it customarily carries a 6-mo guarantee that the loan will be in good standing. If during that time the loan is paid off or you are delinquent, the lender has to buy back the loan from the investor. So no money is "lost" as a penalty in that exchange, but the lender has effectively done all the underwriting and work without any profit, costing them whatever that was. This is made worse by any lender credits they offered you, as that is now money gone on top of their operating cost. So it could be $8k, but a figure isn't guaranteed.

That all said, unless you are in a market like right now when rates are dropping fast, it usually isn't a problem.

As far as enforceability of a clawback, I don't see any reason why they cannot have such a feature. The question is whether they will enforce it if they've sold off servicing. That gets dicey and it may not be worth the effort for them. But if they still hold servicing, I fully expect them to add that to the payoff fees when the next lender asks for a payoff quote. The same is generally true for no-cost HELOCs. If you close within a certain timeframe, they include clawback their costs for providing the loan in the first place and won't record a "satisfaction of lien" until that is completed.
3of10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:30 am
3of10 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:16 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:29 am
dsmil wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:55 am E,F,G, and H can usually be ignored, and you'll receive a refund of your current escrow account to offset much of that.
Just a note that E should not be ignored. If one doesn’t refinance, F and G costs will still be incurred, but E won’t. So E is a cost of a refinance. While in many places it may be a small amount (for me in NC, it was $64), in some places it can be much larger (in NY it will be in the thousands). That can make a significant different in calculations about whether to refi or not.
+1. Good catch BrandonBogle. It's up to the consumer to try to know what the transfer taxes are for their state for a refi. In section E, Better listed my transfer taxes as $5500. I knew something was wrong, and went back and looked at a previous refi I've done, and the transfer taxes were $0. So, I knew that Better had made a mistake (which they later acknowledged).

If I was a novice at this, I would have made the mistake of comparing Better's incorrect "total cost" numbers (which included the $5500) against other LEs, which would have been a huge mistake on my part.
I'm glad you caught that. Sounds like, if you hadn't, you would have gone elsewhere and the terms (at the time) might not have been as good as what you got.

I also like to find my own company for Section C title services. I may not use them, but if I get any LE with a higher Section C cost than I can find from my preferred provider, I don't hold that against the lender. Once in a blue moon I find other lenders even cheaper. For instance, after all the fees, my Section C locally is $1050 or so. loanDepot had $675 in Section C. Legally they cannot charge more (except for the actual policy cost since that is based on loan amount), but they can charge less. So I did use their Section C in comparing offers, but used my local provider on the other offers to compare against.

Basically, you need to normalize things to make sure you are comparing apples-to-apples. I would say the same thing when talking investments!
I agree. Most people focus on sections (A+B+C), but I focus on (A+B). Section C is "title services" which I have control over. Have you found any low cost national discount Title companies, or are just using the ones listed by the lender? I like the way you selected the lowest cost Title service from all of the LEs and used that as your marker.

Also, I do have an owners policy, so I'll have to make sure that the "reissue" rate is done.
"You don't stop playing because you're old. You're old because you've stopped playing"
Cash is King
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cash is King »

tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:35 am
2quiker wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:34 am
tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 am Just closed with Better two days ago 3% 30-year.

Apply with LenderFi today and had this exchange with the Loan Officer:

Him: You literally JUST closed your loan and you’re looking to refinance? Why would you close and do this? You’re going to cost that other bank $8,000+ in penalties for doing that to them. Do not fund your loan and do that to someone or don’t refinance

Me: Interest rates went down. They didn't want to lower my rate after locking. How long do I need to wait so they don't lose the $8k+?

Him: 180 days. And we wouldn’t do the same thing. When you lock you lock, if rates went up would you expect them to increase your rate? If you would do this to them you will do it to us so we will pass on trying to earn your business, sorry

Me: Thanks.
Do blame them? I believe there is a waiting period after you refi, if you refi before that waiting period the bank/lender can be hit with a penalty.
I don't blame him, but is this really my problem. That's the way the system is set up. I'm not breaking any laws.
All true, so why post the exchange between you and the loan officer?
tbone555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tbone555 »

Cash is King wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:58 am
tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:35 am
2quiker wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:34 am
tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 am Just closed with Better two days ago 3% 30-year.

Apply with LenderFi today and had this exchange with the Loan Officer:

Him: You literally JUST closed your loan and you’re looking to refinance? Why would you close and do this? You’re going to cost that other bank $8,000+ in penalties for doing that to them. Do not fund your loan and do that to someone or don’t refinance

Me: Interest rates went down. They didn't want to lower my rate after locking. How long do I need to wait so they don't lose the $8k+?

Him: 180 days. And we wouldn’t do the same thing. When you lock you lock, if rates went up would you expect them to increase your rate? If you would do this to them you will do it to us so we will pass on trying to earn your business, sorry

Me: Thanks.
Do blame them? I believe there is a waiting period after you refi, if you refi before that waiting period the bank/lender can be hit with a penalty.
I don't blame him, but is this really my problem. That's the way the system is set up. I'm not breaking any laws.
All true, so why post the exchange between you and the loan officer?
To see what everyone thinks about the ethics of doing a new refi within 6 months. Should I be concerned that the LO will lose his commission or just keep chasing the best rate?
antiga
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by antiga »

Any tips from the Bogleheads on how to get some of these ultra-competitive rates? (CT)

I've applied to a handful of places and should be a good borrower: >$250k HHI on a $270k loan and low DTI, 70% LTV, 790 FICO. At first I wasn't bothering to include more than ~$200k of assets/401k/IRA on the applications but I'm wondering now if that was a mistake. Have people been calling and asking for better rates with any success? I've tried Better, LenderFi, Caliber, Loancabin (pending), and a couple others.

Best offer I've seen so far is 2.75% with some closing costs at 15-yr, some posters above have done better than that on 30-yr! I intend to ask Better Mortgage to rate-match to get the AMEX promo, but I am having trouble getting a great loan estimate. Hoping for something like 2.5% no-cost 15-year, in Connecticut. Maybe CT is burning me?
Messner8000
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Messner8000 »

This thread has been so educational for me, and so I figured I would ask one final question before locking in my rate today with Better. It has to do with Zillow's refinance calculator (warning: I'm not as good at math as all of you!)

I have 2 options from Better:

Option 1: 30-year 2.75%; A+B+C costs = $2146 (no escrow acount)

Option 2: 20-year at 2.75%; A+B+C costs = $1099 (no escrow account)

I have the $2500 AmEx credit, so either way (unless I'm missing something) costs to me will be zero (and I"ll get some money back!).

When I use Zillow's refinance calculator to see if a refinance is worth it, for the 30 year loan it says I will lose $25000 by the end of the loan, and for the 20 year load it says I will save about $21,000 dollars. My understanding for the difference is that this is because the 30-year calculation accounts for all the extra payments I would have to make on the new 30-year loan after my current loan would have been paid off had I not refinanced (I'm in year 5 of my current 30 year loan). Many calculators do not appear to account for this fact.

Am I reading Zillow's calculator correctly? Should I do the 20 year to maximize my lifetime savings? Having a really hard time wrapping my mind around this. Thanks!
Cash is King
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cash is King »

tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:00 am
Cash is King wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:58 am
tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:35 am
2quiker wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:34 am
tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:54 am Just closed with Better two days ago 3% 30-year.

Apply with LenderFi today and had this exchange with the Loan Officer:

Him: You literally JUST closed your loan and you’re looking to refinance? Why would you close and do this? You’re going to cost that other bank $8,000+ in penalties for doing that to them. Do not fund your loan and do that to someone or don’t refinance

Me: Interest rates went down. They didn't want to lower my rate after locking. How long do I need to wait so they don't lose the $8k+?

Him: 180 days. And we wouldn’t do the same thing. When you lock you lock, if rates went up would you expect them to increase your rate? If you would do this to them you will do it to us so we will pass on trying to earn your business, sorry

Me: Thanks.
Do blame them? I believe there is a waiting period after you refi, if you refi before that waiting period the bank/lender can be hit with a penalty.
I don't blame him, but is this really my problem. That's the way the system is set up. I'm not breaking any laws.
All true, so why post the exchange between you and the loan officer?
To see what everyone thinks about the ethics of doing a new refi within 6 months. Should I be concerned that the LO will lose his commission or just keep chasing the best rate?
[/quote

IMO, I would continue shopping for the best rate . That said, I would not look to refinance a week after I closed. I would have not closed. I closed on 3%@20 year no cost, no escrow, and no appraisal back in March. I continue to shop rates but I'm looking to snag something below 2.5% so the wait is going to be longer.
tbone555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tbone555 »

Cash is King wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:11 am
tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:00 am
Cash is King wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:58 am
tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:35 am
2quiker wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:34 am

Do blame them? I believe there is a waiting period after you refi, if you refi before that waiting period the bank/lender can be hit with a penalty.
I don't blame him, but is this really my problem. That's the way the system is set up. I'm not breaking any laws.
All true, so why post the exchange between you and the loan officer?
To see what everyone thinks about the ethics of doing a new refi within 6 months. Should I be concerned that the LO will lose his commission or just keep chasing the best rate?
[/quote

IMO, I would continue shopping for the best rate . That said, I would not look to refinance a week after I closed. I would have not closed. I closed on 3%@20 year no cost, no escrow, and no appraisal back in March. I continue to shop rates but I'm looking to snag something below 2.5% so the wait is going to be longer.
But it seems it doesn't matter weather I refinance one week or two months after I close. The LO loses commission.
Cash is King
Posts: 255
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cash is King »

Messner8000 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:04 am This thread has been so educational for me, and so I figured I would ask one final question before locking in my rate today with Better. It has to do with Zillow's refinance calculator (warning: I'm not as good at math as all of you!)

I have 2 options from Better:

Option 1: 30-year 2.75%; A+B+C costs = $2146 (no escrow acount)

Option 2: 20-year at 2.75%; A+B+C costs = $1099 (no escrow account)

I have the $2500 AmEx credit, so either way (unless I'm missing something) costs to me will be zero (and I"ll get some money back!).

When I use Zillow's refinance calculator to see if a refinance is worth it, for the 30 year loan it says I will lose $25000 by the end of the loan, and for the 20 year load it says I will save about $21,000 dollars. My understanding for the difference is that this is because the 30-year calculation accounts for all the extra payments I would have to make on the new 30-year loan after my current loan would have been paid off had I not refinanced (I'm in year 5 of my current 30 year loan). Many calculators do not appear to account for this fact.

Am I reading Zillow's calculator correctly? Should I do the 20 year to maximize my lifetime savings? Having a really hard time wrapping my mind around this. Thanks!
If the payment on the 20yr does not cause a cash flow issue, I would go with option 2.
Cash is King
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Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:04 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cash is King »

tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:13 am
Cash is King wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:11 am
tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:00 am
Cash is King wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:58 am
tbone555 wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:35 am

I don't blame him, but is this really my problem. That's the way the system is set up. I'm not breaking any laws.
All true, so why post the exchange between you and the loan officer?
To see what everyone thinks about the ethics of doing a new refi within 6 months. Should I be concerned that the LO will lose his commission or just keep chasing the best rate?
[/quote

IMO, I would continue shopping for the best rate . That said, I would not look to refinance a week after I closed. I would have not closed. I closed on 3%@20 year no cost, no escrow, and no appraisal back in March. I continue to shop rates but I'm looking to snag something below 2.5% so the wait is going to be longer.
But it seems it doesn't matter weather I refinance one week or two months after I close. The LO loses commission.
Well, like you said it's not your problem.
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