Refinance Mega Thread

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Jcwcable
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jcwcable » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:40 pm

BarDownHockey wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:28 pm
Jcwcable wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:13 pm
BarDownHockey wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:04 pm
Jcwcable wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:46 pm
Jcwcable wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:04 pm
Final Scenario for me:
I got LoanDepot to match Better.com's offer of $2500 off for amex and free appraisal. It brought the original D+E from $5,556 to now $3,032. Our current loan has 25 years remaining at $202,700 at 4%. This would be a 30 year loan of $206,500 at 2.75%. What do you guys think, pull the trigger or keep plugging away? The gal from LoanDepot wants it pushed through by midnight because she's concerned the discount could fall off. Probably sales pitch but like I said, they were already lower than Better.com and dropped another $2,500.

I should mention credit scores for me and the wife were 782 and 808.
I don't want to be THAT guy but if anyone is on, could use some guidance here. As it stands its only 3k in closing rolled into the loan ($180 in points, $1595 origination fee, $1,085 section C, and a $20 credit report) but I think they could do better. Problem is, I don't know, and is it worth my time or risk to continue on the path. I'm struggling because I see some of the other deals on here (most for higher loans) and wonder if I'm buying the midnight sales pitch.
What does agreeing to this deal tonight commit you to? Said another way, until you have to pay to secure a deal (I.e. an application fee) you can still walk at any minute. If you’re not out anything, go ahead with this offer and continue to shop around to see what you can do. That’ll secure the rate and if you find something better tomorrow, you can bring it back to Loan Depot and ask them to beat it or you’ll have to go with the better deal.
That's a good question, Loan depot sent a "Welcome Package" with all the jargon that goes into a loan that I'm trying to read through and see if it binds me to only them in same way shape or form.
Yes that appears to be referencing just the rate. Without seeing all the fine print, I’m only taking a guess from my experience. But I’ve seen lenders lock the rate, and I’ve signed the rate lock sheet but that’s cost nothing yet. I do have a good faith application fee they are requiring, but in my opinion, until they call for my credit card number, I have the ability to walk away. It looks the same here for you, they’ve locked your rate. Did they send you an official Loan Estimate? If so, then that would give you protection on the costs as they are not allowed to increase the costs listed on there. If she wants you do commit before midnight, make sure to get the official Loan Estimate, review it for accuracy. And try your best to not pay anything yet so that you have the flexibility to choose another lender if needed.
That's interesting you mention all that, I do have a Loan estimate but they did ask for a credit card at one point in time. I'm trying to recall the purpose of that - I thought she said something about the appraisal if necessary. So I should state, they do have credit card information but I have not yet paid for anything.
Last edited by Jcwcable on Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

3of10
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 3of10 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:13 pm

berg wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:47 pm
3of10 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:36 pm
berg wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:46 pm
Hi all - this thread has been so helpful. I can't believe I am even here, I refi'd last October from 3.75% to 3.25%!

Anyway - would love any thoughts comparing these two options. Both LenderFi and Loan Depot are offering me 30 year 2.75% no closing costs. Loan Depot is actually coming out with a credit of $433, but they require me to escrow taxes and insurance (so it will reduce my my prepaids). I currently escrow just taxes, but not insurance get a discount from Amica for paying annually and on auto pay (plus the credit card points!).

LenderFi is offering 2.75% with $0 closing costs as well, with no escrow required.

I have spent more time on the phone with Loan Depot, but they have been more salesly and dragging feet on loan estimate. LenderFi took a bit longer to get on the phone, but provided the Loan Estimate quickly and is ready for me to e-sign.

Any thoughts? I'm leaning toward LenderFi for the benefit of no escrow and the bird in the hand loan estimate.
Hello berg, did LenderFi and Loan Depot offer the 2.75% with 0 closing costs right from the start? If you don't mind, can you update with the type of rate, and loan balance you've requested? I'm looking for a 30 yr fixed with a $300K loan, and the best they're offering is 2.875% with around .2 points.
I needed to get them on the phone. Loan Depot matched Lender Fi. Lendefi did tell me rates ticked up today from my lock at 2.75% yesterday.

My loan is $510k for 30 year in Massachusetts.
From what I was told, there are many variables in getting the rate. You might have gotten a better rate due to (higher loan balance, credit score, LTV,....). No matter, I'm still going to push for at least 2.75% with low, or no costs.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:52 pm

BrandonBogle wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:16 pm
Got a rate lock (locked on Friday) and estimate today for:

State: NC
Rate: 2.25% *
Term: 15-year fixed
Loan Amount: $150k
No escrow
Section A + B + C + E = $2,977 - $338 lender credit = $2,639

* includes free float down option if rate drops 0.25%

Knowing local pricing available to me for C and E, it would end up actually being $2,345. Now to shop this estimate around to beat it.
I took this offer to Better and they couldn't beat it, but got within $500 of it (before the Amex credit). Better came back with $3,100 in closing costs for 2.25%.

Remember folks that the adjustments they make apply to all their rate tables.

So, I went ahead and locked with a new refi with Better tonight, going from 2.625% 15-year (at no closing costs after the Amex credit) I got from Better in May to 2.625% 15-year with $2k in my pocket (after Amex). Bogles my mind, but in essence, it is free money like chasing a bank or brokerage bonus.

I'll keep my toe in the water though to see if it can sweeten the deal.

psychoslowmatic
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by psychoslowmatic » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:04 am

BrandonBogle wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:52 pm
[quote=BrandonBogle post_id=5341917 time=<a href="tel:1593465399">1593465399</a> user_id=42519]
Got a rate lock (locked on Friday) and estimate today for:

State: NC
Rate: 2.25% *
Term: 15-year fixed
Loan Amount: $150k
No escrow
Section A + B + C + E = $2,977 - $338 lender credit = $2,639

* includes free float down option if rate drops 0.25%

Knowing local pricing available to me for C and E, it would end up actually being $2,345. Now to shop this estimate around to beat it.
I took this offer to Better and they couldn't beat it, but got within $500 of it (before the Amex credit). Better came back with $3,100 in closing costs for 2.25%.

Remember folks that the adjustments they make apply to all their rate tables.

So, I went ahead and locked with a new refi with Better tonight, going from 2.625% 15-year (at no closing costs after the Amex credit) I got from Better in May to 2.625% 15-year with $2k in my pocket (after Amex). Bogles my mind, but in essence, it is free money like chasing a bank or brokerage bonus.

I'll keep my toe in the water though to see if it can sweeten the deal.
[/quote]

Don’t they have to show that the loan provides a benefit to you? I don’t think the 2k refund counts, nor the couple bucks your payment will drop. Might be worth asking them if refinancing to the same rate and term are ok.

Brain
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:32 am

gullit18 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:43 pm
tuck3979 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:41 pm
Refinance completed.

6/15: Locked at Better
6/25: Title cleared, underwriting completed already
6/30: Closed, wire submitted (escrow)

2.75% 30 year
A+B+C+E = $1,100
Credit = $3,867
AMEX = $2500

Total profit = $5,267

I did escrow, so paid out of pocket at close and will get check back from prior lender. Escrow calc was spot on, no crazy overpay, so will be wiped out by refunded escrow later this month. I will be monitoring the boards and will definitely jump back in for a no-cost 2.5% 30year if we get there.
How did you get the $3,867 credit? That's one thing I haven't been understanding, how is everyone getting credits? You simply ask and get a credit? I was able to get Better.com to match but have not inquired about a credit.

I have a 15 year at 2.5% with A+B+C+E= 1,775. No credits.
Asking for a credit probably won't get much of a response. Most companies seem to only respond to another company's loan estimate. Make sure to get several quotes. Go to NerdWallet, BankRate, Credible, or any other aggregator. Put in your info and you'll see a bunch of numbers, call up the best, get an LE, then call another company, get an LE from them and so on.

Send the best LE you get to the second, third, fourth best. If you give a competitors LE to them, the company will usually try to one-up it, since simply matching isn't much incentive. Play that game a few times and the one-upping added up to a lot more than one.

A lot of folks, myself included, worked with Better to get a really good deal, then went to another company and got them to compete against Better's deal plus the Amex rebate. If they come even close, turning that back around to Better can lead to a pretty big credit.

It's sounding like Better has gotten wise to this strategy and has told its loan officers to tone it down as they're making the honey a bit too sweet.

You should certainly be able to get down to credits matching your costs. Then take that to Better and see if they'll beat it by $100, $500, $1,000, whatever they're doing now. Add on the Amex rebate and you'll be making money off the refi!

MAandMEMom
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MAandMEMom » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:55 am

Stupid and likely silly question, but does the Amex deal have a deadline? I’m not an Amex cardholder, but I’d be willing to get one if I could get in on a good deal. Back in January we went from a 30 year 3.25 (Amerisave -> Provident) to a 20 year 3.75 (lic bank) to roll in a rising at the time HELOC. This was a no true no cost loan as it’s written like a home equity loan so my person waiting period is zilch. Any advice to get below 3? I don’t care if it’s 30 or 30 I suppose. Balance just under $400k.

Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:34 am

MAandMEMom wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:55 am
Stupid and likely silly question, but does the Amex deal have a deadline? I’m not an Amex cardholder, but I’d be willing to get one if I could get in on a good deal. Back in January we went from a 30 year 3.25 (Amerisave -> Provident) to a 20 year 3.75 (lic bank) to roll in a rising at the time HELOC. This was a no true no cost loan as it’s written like a home equity loan so my person waiting period is zilch. Any advice to get below 3? I don’t care if it’s 30 or 30 I suppose. Balance just under $400k.
You must lock in with Better by 7/25 and close by 10/28 to get the AMEX deal.

Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:37 am

Brain wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:32 am

A lot of folks, myself included, worked with Better to get a really good deal, then went to another company and got them to compete against Better's deal plus the Amex rebate. If they come even close, turning that back around to Better can lead to a pretty big credit.

It's sounding like Better has gotten wise to this strategy and has told its loan officers to tone it down as they're making the honey a bit too sweet.
Yup this was the best strategy that I do not believe works anymore.

You could get a good estimate, bring to better to get $1000 best rate guarantee + $2500 AMEX, get someone to match or beat it, go back to Better and rinse and repeat: $1000 best rate guarantee and $2500 AMEX. At that point you’ve probably hit rock bottom as no one can match that deal.

In essence, with a few emails you could put $7000 in your pocket. Shows you how much money these folks are making on a loan origination if they can give away $7k after a few back and forth exchanges.
Last edited by Jags4186 on Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:41 am

psychoslowmatic wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:04 am
Don’t they have to show that the loan provides a benefit to you? I don’t think the 2k refund counts, nor the couple bucks your payment will drop. Might be worth asking them if refinancing to the same rate and term are ok.
I’m sorry, but I don’t understand your question. Could you elaborate please?

MBJ0909
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MBJ0909 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:53 am

adv_marmot wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:29 pm
Has anyone refinanced with a new lender shortly after closing a refi with LenderFI? It has been three months since closing a refi with LenderFI but with rates continuing to drop I would like to refi again. I know LenderFI verbally said I needed to wait 6 months but I think that was a deterrent to keep me from refinancing with a new lender right away. I don't know of any legal reason why I can't refi whenever I like.
I am refinancing with LenderFi right now and I signed a disclosure stating I would not refinance before 6 months. Chances are good you signed it as well and it wasn't just verbal.

Beach
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Beach » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:59 am

Beach wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:37 pm
Locked today at LenderFi @ 2.75%, $0 out of pocket costs for 15yr Fixed Refi. Going to save 1% on my old mortgage rate. Application was painless, documentation was minimal. 57% LTV, 800+ credit score.

We'll see how it goes
Update: Loan officer called and got me down to a 2.5%, no additional out of cost. Not sure why the published rate was so much higher, but it was. :moneybag

frankandbeans
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frankandbeans » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:46 am

psychoslowmatic wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:04 am


Don’t they have to show that the loan provides a benefit to you? I don’t think the 2k refund counts, nor the couple bucks your payment will drop. Might be worth asking them if refinancing to the same rate and term are ok.
I think you're referring to the Net Tangible Benefit Test, and I agree that this is a potential problem if refinancing to the same rate and term--they generally won't take credits or bonuses into account in this analysis. Unless there is a lender overlay requiring it generally, it will apply to VA, FHA, and loans originated in certain states under state law, so it may or may not apply to this individual. If it were me, I would inquire at the outset to avoid the hassle.

psychoslowmatic
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by psychoslowmatic » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:02 am

frankandbeans wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:46 am
psychoslowmatic wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:04 am


Don’t they have to show that the loan provides a benefit to you? I don’t think the 2k refund counts, nor the couple bucks your payment will drop. Might be worth asking them if refinancing to the same rate and term are ok.
I think you're referring to the Net Tangible Benefit Test, and I agree that this is a potential problem if refinancing to the same rate and term--they generally won't take credits or bonuses into account in this analysis. Unless there is a lender overlay requiring it generally, it will apply to VA, FHA, and loans originated in certain states under state law, so it may or may not apply to this individual. If it were me, I would inquire at the outset to avoid the hassle.
frankandbeans used the term I couldn't remember, Net Tangible Benefit Test. Use that term and they should know right away what you're talking about and whether it applies.

Brain
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Brain » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:42 am

I have a question:

I'm scheduled to close on the 8th.

Current loan:
20y
3.375%
Balance: $234,589.42

New loan:
15y
2.5%

My question is, what should I make the new loan balance? Is there a commonly accepted bast practice? Keep the current balance? Round it to the nearest hundred, thousand? Rounding up to $235,000 wouldn't count as a "cash-out", right?

I'm ending up making so much money off this refi that I could drop $4,589.42 and start the new loan at an even $230,000 and still be in the black.

Is it wise to, effectively, make a $4,500 extra payment? Why would doing it at origination be any better than any other time? Reducing the balance by $4,500 only reduces the total interest paid by about $1,000 over 15 years, and we're highly likely to pay off the loan before that point.

I have the money in the bank and if I didn't do this, It'd just stay in the bank. My emergency fund isn't quite as high as I'd like it to be, but $5k isn't going to hurt significantly if I do reduce the loan amount.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:45 am

psychoslowmatic wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:02 am
frankandbeans wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:46 am
psychoslowmatic wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:04 am
Don’t they have to show that the loan provides a benefit to you? I don’t think the 2k refund counts, nor the couple bucks your payment will drop. Might be worth asking them if refinancing to the same rate and term are ok.
I think you're referring to the Net Tangible Benefit Test, and I agree that this is a potential problem if refinancing to the same rate and term--they generally won't take credits or bonuses into account in this analysis. Unless there is a lender overlay requiring it generally, it will apply to VA, FHA, and loans originated in certain states under state law, so it may or may not apply to this individual. If it were me, I would inquire at the outset to avoid the hassle.
frankandbeans used the term I couldn't remember, Net Tangible Benefit Test. Use that term and they should know right away what you're talking about and whether it applies.
Gotcha. Thank you. That was very helpful. This is a conventional loan and this go around, it is for a different dollar amount. As this time around I’m almost at property tax renewal, Better is requiring they be funded at closing, even if there isn’t an escrow account going forward.

However, if this becomes an issue, I will swap rates. I have screenshots of the various rate table options and can switch between them at any time.

All that said, thank you again. I was unaware of this prior to this morning.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:50 am

Brain wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:42 am
I'm ending up making so much money off this refi that I could drop $4,589.42 and start the new loan at an even $230,000 and still be in the black.

Is it wise to, effectively, make a $4,500 extra payment? Why would doing it at origination be any better than any other time? Reducing the balance by $4,500 only reduces the total interest paid by about $1,000 over 15 years, and we're highly likely to pay off the loan before that point.

I have the money in the bank and if I didn't do this, It'd just stay in the bank. My emergency fund isn't quite as high as I'd like it to be, but $5k isn't going to hurt significantly if I do reduce the loan amount.
Will you have an escrow account? If so, excess will help fund that and you can walk away with up to $2k cash at closing. Meanwhile, only $2.5k can go to principal reduction.

If you do principal reduction (or take the cash and then make an additional principal payment), the only real difference is the title insurance costs (as they are based on loan amounts) and the monthly payment as it is based on the full balance.

Personally, if I would be in the black after escrow and $2k in my pocket, I would reduce the loan amount. That all said, dollar wise, we are not talking about much financial impact over the life of the loan, however long you keep it.

limeyx
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by limeyx » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:02 am

Beach wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:59 am
Beach wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:37 pm
Locked today at LenderFi @ 2.75%, $0 out of pocket costs for 15yr Fixed Refi. Going to save 1% on my old mortgage rate. Application was painless, documentation was minimal. 57% LTV, 800+ credit score.

We'll see how it goes
Update: Loan officer called and got me down to a 2.5%, no additional out of cost. Not sure why the published rate was so much higher, but it was. :moneybag
Because some (many?) people just pay it ?

Mongoose42
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Mongoose42 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:09 am

I just locked at 2.875% for a 30-yr FRM, with no points or lender fees. In fact, we got a lender credit of $1,500, bringing total closing costs to $500. I’ve never seen such good terms so jumped on it. Is this too good to be true? We’ve never heard of the lender, CF Bank, but they got good reviews on Bankrate. How can they make money on the loan?

ARShock
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ARShock » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:56 am

I have an Integrity question on rescinding a refinance. I went through a 15 yr refinance with Northpointe at 2.5% with .6 points, signed the paperwork Monday night. Right before we were supposed to close they came back and said I would need to pay $1,200 at closing versus the $63 they had quoted due to a miscalculation of escrow. I noticed some others were getting better rates, so I emailed my loan officer a couple days before closing and said I wasn’t ready to close and wanted to see if they could improve their rate, he said they couldn’t. I told him I wanted to check around and I didn’t want to close Monday, no email response. I submitted an inquiry through Quicken and talked to a loan officer Sunday, he could only match what I already had so I told him I would pass. I also tried my local bank Monday morning and was waiting for a call back.

Fast forward to Monday at 1:00, I get a call from a notary saying she could be at my house at 4:00 to sign the documents. I considered telling her I wasn’t ready, but went ahead with it even though I was a little irritated my loan officer didn’t listen. My wife was worried we would miss out if we didn’t sign then.

Today I get a call from someone at quicken saying they can get me down to 2.25%, lowering my monthly payment by about $40 a month. He says it’s no big deal to rescind. I’m wondering if that is the actually the case. Does the notary that came to my house get paid if I rescind? I know I will be out $400 from
Northpointe, but I assume they have to reimburse the $1200 check I wrote at closing? Would you rescind in my situation?

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Cobra Commander
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cobra Commander » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:15 am

I just spoke with Quicken and they offered me a 2.25% on a 30 year VA loan; however, the fees are $8.2K. Supposedly I will still be eligible for the AMEX credit although the guy didn't seem to know much about it. The closest thing they can do to a no cost loan for me is about a $2K fee for a 2.75%...although, possibly higher because he doesn't seem to count the state mortgage tax as a loan cost. Oddly, he would not send me the entire rate sheet, just this one specific option although he discussed them on the phone.

I am going to see what Lenderfi comes back with, hopefully something a little better. I might be willing to pay a little bit to get to 2.25% and never have to worry about refinancing again.

mt2k
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mt2k » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:21 am

Mongoose42 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:09 am
I just locked at 2.875% for a 30-yr FRM, with no points or lender fees. In fact, we got a lender credit of $1,500, bringing total closing costs to $500. I’ve never seen such good terms so jumped on it. Is this too good to be true? We’ve never heard of the lender, CF Bank, but they got good reviews on Bankrate. How can they make money on the loan?
You can still bring this LE to Better.com if they can match/beat it plus $2,500 Amex credit

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:26 am

ARShock wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:56 am
Today I get a call from someone at quicken saying they can get me down to 2.25%, lowering my monthly payment by about $40 a month.
...
Does the notary that came to my house get paid if I rescind?
Is the $40/mo in the P&I or the escrow? You need to compare the loan amounts, rate, term, and sections A - C (plus any credits in J) between Quicken's and Northpointe's offer to really judge between them. It sounds like the rate is lower by 0.25%, but you don't mention if that is because you are paying more in points or anything.

Yes, the notary will be paid. They are paid by either Northpointe or the settlement agent directly and that will happen regardless of if they refund you the closing costs or not. It will be either Northpointe or you losing out on things, not any of the third parties.

frank11
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frank11 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:30 am

2.99% low cost refinance from third federal - 10 yrs
total fees $295

bestisfree
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:35 am

Hi,

For those who financed with Better or Lendfi, did you just go with with title company the lender suggested? (I know I can shop around, but am not sure if that will take more time than 30 days)

Better suggested Title365, has anyone had a problem?

Thank you in advance.

ARShock
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ARShock » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:45 am

BrandonBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:26 am
ARShock wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:56 am
Today I get a call from someone at quicken saying they can get me down to 2.25%, lowering my monthly payment by about $40 a month.
...
Does the notary that came to my house get paid if I rescind?
Is the $40/mo in the P&I or the escrow? You need to compare the loan amounts, rate, term, and sections A - C (plus any credits in J) between Quicken's and Northpointe's offer to really judge between them. It sounds like the rate is lower by 0.25%, but you don't mention if that is because you are paying more in points or anything.

Yes, the notary will be paid. They are paid by either Northpointe or the settlement agent directly and that will happen regardless of if they refund you the closing costs or not. It will be either Northpointe or you losing out on things, not any of the third parties.
The total Loam amount quoted from quicken will be slightly less than north pointe total so I assume with the lower monthly payment it will a benefit for me? Anyone think northpointe would lower their rate if they knew I was considering rescinding the refi or is to to late for that since I have closed? I just wonder if this is ethically wrong if Northpointe will end up out some money.

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SVariance1
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by SVariance1 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:04 pm

I am looking to refinance my current mortgage because rates are at historic lows. At my current bank, I can do a 20 fixed at a rate of 3.125 I know that other lenders may have lower rates. I spoke with someone at Quicken Loans who quoted me at 2.75 for a 20 year fixed. Each of them only have one up front cost of about $500. Has anyone here done a refi lately, what was your experience and who did you use? Also, has anyone done a refi with Quicken Loans?
Mike

Beach
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Beach » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:05 pm

Berean wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:59 pm
Beach wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:37 pm
Locked today at LenderFi @ 2.75%, $0 out of pocket costs for 15yr Fixed Refi. Going to save 1% on my old mortgage rate. Application was painless, documentation was minimal. 57% LTV, 800+ credit score.

We'll see how it goes
May I ask the amount of your loan?
$315K

seawolf21
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by seawolf21 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:06 pm

Looks like rates going down even further today. Today is the largest credit being provided in the two weeks.

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simplesimon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by simplesimon » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:19 pm

Current loan balance: $700k
Current mortgage: Four months into a 10/1 ARM 3.00%
Current P&I: $2,961/month

LoanDepot told me to pay it down $10k to $690k to get the following 30-year fixed rate options:
3.00% - no cost
2.875% - closing costs of ~$3,700

I don't think it's worth the hassle and $10k principal to eliminate the adjustment right at this moment, but wanted to see what others thought.

xerxes101
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by xerxes101 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:22 pm

Beach wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:59 am
Beach wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:37 pm
Locked today at LenderFi @ 2.75%, $0 out of pocket costs for 15yr Fixed Refi. Going to save 1% on my old mortgage rate. Application was painless, documentation was minimal. 57% LTV, 800+ credit score.

We'll see how it goes
Update: Loan officer called and got me down to a 2.5%, no additional out of cost. Not sure why the published rate was so much higher, but it was. :moneybag
Beach, do you think they would offer that rate to someone who is not with them right now?..or is that for people who have a mortgage with them already and they simply do a relock?

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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Minty » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:40 pm

Just closed a 2.375 %, 15 year, no-cost refi in the neighborhood of $375K with Owning.com. LTV < 50%. Replaced a 3.0 % 20 year loan. Better.com declined to match or beat; they were minimally responsive and initially claimed I had not sent the LE in time--they will be strict about the one business day deadline. We shall see if they honor their promise to pay for not beating the LE.

In retrospect, I should have shopped the offer harder. It is hard to imagine a loan going lower than 2.375, but these days anything is possible. Thanks to everyone on this thread who has shared their wisdom and experience.
Core Four with nominal bonds and TIPS.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:52 pm

ARShock wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:45 am
BrandonBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:26 am
ARShock wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:56 am
Today I get a call from someone at quicken saying they can get me down to 2.25%, lowering my monthly payment by about $40 a month.
...
Does the notary that came to my house get paid if I rescind?
Is the $40/mo in the P&I or the escrow? You need to compare the loan amounts, rate, term, and sections A - C (plus any credits in J) between Quicken's and Northpointe's offer to really judge between them. It sounds like the rate is lower by 0.25%, but you don't mention if that is because you are paying more in points or anything.

Yes, the notary will be paid. They are paid by either Northpointe or the settlement agent directly and that will happen regardless of if they refund you the closing costs or not. It will be either Northpointe or you losing out on things, not any of the third parties.
The total Loam amount quoted from quicken will be slightly less than north pointe total so I assume with the lower monthly payment it will a benefit for me? Anyone think northpointe would lower their rate if they knew I was considering rescinding the refi or is to to late for that since I have closed? I just wonder if this is ethically wrong if Northpointe will end up out some money.
Technically, the docs aren't filed until the recision period is over. So Northpointe may work with you and generate new disclosures with a new offer. But it is also likely that they would just cancel things out and not budge. It's a gamble.

The total loan amount is slightly less, so that is good. But we still don't know how you are breaking up the costs. For instance, if Quicken is charging an extra $2k to reduce the rate from 2.5% to 2.25%, then this is likely not worth it. We don't have enough info to make a judgement call.

Focus the Quicken offer just like any other refi decision regardless of having the Northpointe refi almost complete. Do the numbers make sense to take the offer vs. the Northpointe offer?

barreg
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by barreg » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:09 pm

For someone like myself who's just starting the refinance process, is it recommended to apply with several lenders at once, and then see if they will beat the lowest rate/cost?

Also, I do have a personal Amex card, so I assume I'd qualify for the Better.com $2,500 rebate, but from reading the thread, it looks like things may have changed somewhat recently with Better. Is it just that you can't keep continually playing Better.com off other lenders offers to get the $1,000 cash back?

ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:10 pm

Question for all those smarter than I. This refinancing opportunity got me thinking about the bigger picture and how it all works. I'm going down from 3.5% to 3.0%, saving $300/month on my mortgage payments and getting a lender credit that is $2,500 more than all closing costs. I know the bank/broker isn't doing this for free so they are making money on some interest rate spread. So if we're both making out, who's losing out? Or is it just a matter of new money being created in a win-win for all parties? Anyone have any insights into the bigger picture on how it all works?

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:12 pm

ChiKid24 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:10 pm
Question for all those smarter than I. This refinancing opportunity got me thinking about the bigger picture and how it all works. I'm going down from 3.5% to 3.0%, saving $300/month on my mortgage payments and getting a lender credit that is $2,500 more than all closing costs. I know the bank/broker isn't doing this for free so they are making money on some interest rate spread. So if we're both making out, who's losing out? Or is it just a matter of new money being created in a win-win for all parties? Anyone have any insights into the bigger picture on how it all works?
The investor holding you 3.5% mortgage

Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:19 pm

barreg wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:09 pm
For someone like myself who's just starting the refinance process, is it recommended to apply with several lenders at once, and then see if they will beat the lowest rate/cost?

Also, I do have a personal Amex card, so I assume I'd qualify for the Better.com $2,500 rebate, but from reading the thread, it looks like things may have changed somewhat recently with Better. Is it just that you can't keep continually playing Better.com off other lenders offers to get the $1,000 cash back?
They've changed their best rate guarantee from $1000 to $100 and are very willing to write a $100 check to avoid a bad deal.

ChiKid24
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChiKid24 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:26 pm

BrandonBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:12 pm
ChiKid24 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:10 pm
Question for all those smarter than I. This refinancing opportunity got me thinking about the bigger picture and how it all works. I'm going down from 3.5% to 3.0%, saving $300/month on my mortgage payments and getting a lender credit that is $2,500 more than all closing costs. I know the bank/broker isn't doing this for free so they are making money on some interest rate spread. So if we're both making out, who's losing out? Or is it just a matter of new money being created in a win-win for all parties? Anyone have any insights into the bigger picture on how it all works?
The investor holding you 3.5% mortgage
But that entity gets paid what they are owed. So at time of refinance are they really losing anything?

batpot
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by batpot » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:31 pm

has anybody been actively tracking mortgage rates and caught a valley?
I've been using zillow mortgage, and it looks like rates hit rock bottom yesterday.
I use the app, but it appears here middle way down the page: https://www.zillow.com/mortgage-rates/#/location

anybody get a quote yesterday?

I just closed at 2.75% on a 30 year fixed, with 0.87 points rolled into closing based on a valley back in May.
Coworker got 2.625% on the last valley about June 8th, which was lower than my valley.
Yesterday was lower than that.
the best available rate seems to track fairly closely with Zillow's trend line, and most broker's I've talk to have varying rates throughout the day.
Last edited by batpot on Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:34 pm

ChiKid24 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:26 pm
BrandonBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:12 pm
The investor holding you 3.5% mortgage
But that entity gets paid what they are owed. So at time of refinance are they really losing anything?
They lose out on future interest earnings though. They don’t lose any money, but they lose future profit.

leviathan
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by leviathan » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:50 pm

What does American Express gain by participating in Better/Amex promotion?
I already have an Amex card, which I seldom use. For customers like me, they do not seem to gain anything with spending $2500 (or whatever their portion of the $2500 promotion).

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SVariance1
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by SVariance1 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:10 pm

Berean wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:10 pm
limeyx wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:48 pm
Berean wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:25 pm
limeyx wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:47 am
logos wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:53 am
Refi with Better closed last Friday.

$450k at 2.625%, $1.5k lender credit to offset their fees - so essentially no fees.

I was a bit skeptical but better was actually very easy to work with.
Nice. I sent my Quicken LE to Better and they ... bettered it by a bit (it was tricky since QL had the appraisal fee still included but will waive this later)
Then I showed the LE to Quicken and told them about the Amex credit and they offered $2000 in lender credits, so it was close enough and we will keep going with QL
Quicken told me that they too offer the $2,500 AmEx credit.
Interesting, I do see that. I wonder if somehow I can make them give this to me also !
I applied online with Quicken. When they called me, I asked about the AmEx credit. He put a notation in my file. He said that if and when I lock with Quicken, they will ask for my AmEx account number to post the credit.
See this link: https://www.americanexpress.com/us/camp ... ken-loans/
What is the amex credit with Quicken
Mike

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:15 pm

SVariance1 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:10 pm
What is the amex credit with Quicken
https://www.americanexpress.com/us/camp ... ken-loans/

wootwoot
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by wootwoot » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:19 pm

leviathan wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:50 pm
What does American Express gain by participating in Better/Amex promotion?
I already have an Amex card, which I seldom use. For customers like me, they do not seem to gain anything with spending $2500 (or whatever their portion of the $2500 promotion).
Does it really matter? Take advantage like everyone else. :D

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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Bleedinggums99 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:23 pm

So I am surprised at some of the no cost options I have received and want to make sure i am not being duped into them just rolling it into my loan. Everyone keeps putting in the loan amount into the LE based on checking my credit, which for some reason is 2 payments behind. What would the LE say if loan cost were being rolled into the loan? I don't think mine are because that isn't mentioned anywhere nor has it in any conversation so I want to make sure i am not being tricked.

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Cobra Commander
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cobra Commander » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:24 pm

BrandonBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:15 pm
SVariance1 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:10 pm
What is the amex credit with Quicken
https://www.americanexpress.com/us/camp ... ken-loans/
The Quicken guy I spoke with didn't seem to know much about the offer. Almost like, oh yeah I guess there's an AMEX offer too that we figure out down the road. I guess you can't expect them to be aware of every promotion out there but this seems like a big one.

I would also add that I'm jealous of all the people with these no cost refinancing offers. I get it that people are using loan estimates to get better rates but none of the loan estimates I'm getting are even close to no cost. Better does not operate in VA so I don't have that option. I tried Quicken, CF Bank and LenderFi (haven't heard back yet) but so far no 0 cost refinancing options that are materially better than my current 3.25%.

One interesting note was that for Quicken loans there was no difference in the rate for a sub $510K loan and my current $530K loan.
Last edited by Cobra Commander on Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SVariance1
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by SVariance1 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:28 pm

BrandonBogle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:15 pm
SVariance1 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:10 pm
What is the amex credit with Quicken
https://www.americanexpress.com/us/camp ... ken-loans/
My guy (since yesterday) at Quicken mentioned credits but was not specific. I would like a line by line for the closing costs which so far he has not provided. He said in an email that after a 500 deposit the total closing costs would be $4,600 rolled in at a 20 year rate of 2.75. The loan balance is about $240,000. I am in PA.

Does this seem reasonable?

I just started doing the research yesterday. My current bank has a rate of 3.125 for a 20 years with about the same closing costs. I would prefer to use my current bank but they are more expensive.
Mike

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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jcwcable » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:51 pm

Still chugging along on mine - anyone tell me why the prepaids would have such a discrepancy? LoanDepot is claiming Better.com "might throw them on as a cost later in the loan." As it is Better.com (top photo) is nearly a no-cost after the amex statement credit.
Last edited by Jcwcable on Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Beach
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Beach » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:57 pm

xerxes101 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:22 pm
Beach wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:59 am
Beach wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:37 pm
Locked today at LenderFi @ 2.75%, $0 out of pocket costs for 15yr Fixed Refi. Going to save 1% on my old mortgage rate. Application was painless, documentation was minimal. 57% LTV, 800+ credit score.

We'll see how it goes
Update: Loan officer called and got me down to a 2.5%, no additional out of cost. Not sure why the published rate was so much higher, but it was. :moneybag
Beach, do you think they would offer that rate to someone who is not with them right now?..or is that for people who have a mortgage with them already and they simply do a relock?
I am with Wells Fargo and have zero affiliation with LenderFi. The only reason I checked them out was because of the positive reviews on this post. I actually reached out to Wells Fargo before hand and got a terrible quote. I laughed at him and said you guys are missing out because you'll end up buying back my mortgage most likely. He quoted me almost 6K in closing costs, it was insane.
Last edited by Beach on Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:59 pm

Jcwcable wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:51 pm
Still chugging along on mine - anyone tell me why the prepaids would have such a discrepancy? LoanDepot is claiming Better.com "might throw them on as a cost later in the loan." As it is Better.com (top photo) is nearly a no-cost after the amex statement credit.
When comparing multiple loan options, focus on Sections A , B , and credits in J. You can also consider Section C, but you are able to pick the provider you want for that, so hey could be the same number if you get such a provider.

For me, my Section C from a local provider is cheaper than anyone else I’ve seen. So I just ignore C as I know the fixed cost that it will be.

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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:05 pm

Jcwcable wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:51 pm
Still chugging along on mine - anyone tell me why the prepaids would have such a discrepancy? LoanDepot is claiming Better.com "might throw them on as a cost later in the loan." As it is Better.com (top photo) is nearly a no-cost after the amex statement credit.

Image
Image
A: LoanDepot is charging you a $1595 origination fee, Better is not. I would tell LoanDepot you want no origination fee or an additional Lender Credit to offset.

B: Better is charging you for a home appraisal. Check to see if Better is going to refund you the appraisal fee at closing. Looks like LoanDepot is waiving appraisal.

C: Bunch of stuff some title companies charge for and other’s don’t. Better’s title agency has a laundry list of stuff, other lenders have that much smaller list you have on Loan Depots offer. You can go find your own title company to try and further reduce the costs.

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