Refinance Mega Thread

[3of10]

Yes, once I got back Better's match I inquired about the Amex deal and they confirmed that it would be included in my loan.

Thanks.

[3of10]

Also, make sure your Amex card is eligible. I have the Everyday blue. This is from the FAQ:

Eligible Cards include personal consumer American Express Cards issued by a U.S. banking subsidiary of American Express that are not canceled.

Note: Prepaid Cards and products, American Express Corporate Cards, American Express Small Business Cards and American Express-branded Cards or account numbers issued by other financial institutions are not eligible. Additional Card Members on your Account are not eligible for this offer.

Thanks. The plan is to go with the "Blue Cash Everyday" card, which has no annual fee.

[berg]

Hi all - this thread has been so helpful. I can't believe I am even here, I refi'd last October from 3.75% to 3.25%!

Anyway - would love any thoughts comparing these two options. Both LenderFi and Loan Depot are offering me 30 year 2.75% no closing costs. Loan Depot is actually coming out with a credit of $433, but they require me to escrow taxes and insurance (so it will reduce my my prepaids). I currently escrow just taxes, but not insurance get a discount from Amica for paying annually and on auto pay (plus the credit card points!).

LenderFi is offering 2.75% with $0 closing costs as well, with no escrow required.

I have spent more time on the phone with Loan Depot, but they have been more salesly and dragging feet on loan estimate. LenderFi took a bit longer to get on the phone, but provided the Loan Estimate quickly and is ready for me to e-sign.

Any thoughts? I'm leaning toward LenderFi for the benefit of no escrow and the bird in the hand loan estimate.

Okay a day later, I finally got Loan Depot's actual loan estimate. So here is where I ended up. LoanDepot ends up with a $421 credit, but requires escrow for taxes and insurance. LenderFi is $0 closing costs, but does not require escrow.

What would you do? I'm leaning toward no escrow as I like being responsible for my own taxes and insurance (including a discount from Amica for paying annually and on auto pay, plus the credit card points!

Maybe I'll go back to LenderFi and see if they can match? I pulled the trigger with them and signed last night because I wanted to lock the rate, but I'm sure they could still work with me. Would that be rude of me to go back to them after committing?

[DrGrnTum]

I would first like to thank everyone who have responded to this refinance mega thread. It's been very informative. I'm trying to help someone who is going through their first refi, and it's been a challenge. I've concentrated on the lenders that are mentioned the most (LenderFi, Loan Depot, Better, Northpointe,...). It's getting to be more difficult in getting a LE from them. The Amex offer from Better puts them in the top position (if there is a competitive LE offer), but raises questions in dealing with Better. There appears to be two different ways in applying with them.

1. Amex Concierge website - This website will let them know immediately that you're pursuing the Amex "$2500" credit. You will also get a concierge rep to work with you. Has anyone gone this route? Is this the way to go? Will the concierge rep be assertive in to beating any matching LE quotes, knowing I'm already getting the $2500 rebate?

2. Better.com website (normal route) - Is it strategically better to go the normal route by calling or going online through their regular website to first get the best (matching) rate quote, and then later going after the Amex credit?

I've read most of this thread, but have not come across any consistent approach in working with Better from the start to get the best rate.

I went through better website to apply. Got a call from the rep. I told them that I have an LE that I would like them to take a look at and see if they can beat. Which they did. Before I even mention the competitor LE. The rates better initial offer was poor. Then I told them about the Amex promo. He proceeded with asking for my Amex card number and then said he would tag my account to it. I also confirm the next day with the processing rep also. Which also he confirmed.

To be honest, I think you’ll only get a competitive offer from better if you bring a competitive LE offer to them. YMMV

I agree with Familyman2012. Here is my procedure.

Find a good deal with another lender.
Do whatever you need to do to get a LE from them.
Start the loan process using Better’s web site and wait for someone to contact you.
When someone contacts you informed them that you have a LE from another lender.
Remind them of their guarantee.
Send them the LE you received from the other lender.
They send back a response
Mind response was a match minus $1,000
I immediately locked with them a 2.35% 15yr no cost loan with the $2,500 Amex bonus.
I am presently in the document review state, waiting to close.

DrGrTum: You got a great deal from Better. May I ask the amount of your loan and the date you locked?

Someone on this thread called out that Owning in California was offering 2.35% on a 15 year loan.

I live in California and I went to their website and applied.
They sent me an email with a primary quote of 15 years with no closing cost.
I immediacy put in a formal application where they then pulled my credit.
They then sent me a formal LE.
One thing about Owning is they said they would not lock until something, something had cleared.
They said it would be about 2 weeks

The next day I contacted Better.
The same day I put in a formal application with Better they locked the rate. This was on Jun 15.
My loan amount was for $357,456. Zillow had it appraised at $742,00.
The actual appraisal came in close to that amount.
My existing loan is for 30 years at 4.125%

[3of10]

Another thing that has been pointed out in this tread.
Make sure the email you use to login to Better's site is the same as what is active on the account for the Amex card.
I had issue with this, but I think I have it worked out.

Good luck.

That's a good reminder. Will make sure that the same email @ is used for both Amex and Better. So far, I have one LE in hand, while waiting for others. Should I go forward with Better now with this LE, and contact Better again if I later get better offers (which means contacting Better multiple times), or wait till I get all of the LEs before proceeding?

My concern with waiting is whether rates might increase during that time. But, I'm not sure if going back and forth with Better with multiple LE rates (as they slowly come in) will be an issue?

[FootballFan5548]

Can someone explain prepaids to me?

I'm working with a broker.
Original loan 3.375% on 780k 4 years ago. I have paid extra principal and have $677k remaining on loan. Payment is 3448/month

New refi option - 3% 30 year, no fees/no cost. Lender credit matches up dollar for dollar on all costs, (title, application fee, waived appraisal). The monthly payment would be roughly 2880, saving me $568 per month which is great.

My question, is the above is based on a loan balance of $683,000. My current principal is $677k. What is making up that extra $6k in difference between current principal and new principal?

My broker was saying something about per-diem interest from my existing loan and new interest for the new loan or something like that... but I can't come up with the 6k difference and feel like i'm getting ripped off.

I was hoping no cost/no fee meant my existing loan with balance of 677k goes away (gets paid off), and new loan with balance of 677k starts at lower rate.
Can someone explain?

Your loan balance and your payoff balance are not the same. Very simplistically, let's pretend you have $100,00 loan with a $1000 payment and $500 of that payment is interest and $500 of that payment is principal. When you log into your bank website on June 1 it says "$100,000 balance". If you log in on June 30, the balance is $100,000. But you've accrued $500 in interest, and when you make your July 1 payment, $500 will pay that interest accrual and $500 will pay down the loan. Now your balance shows $99,500.

Depending on the day you close you will accrue interest that needs to be paid. If your new loan is paying off the $100,000 balance is on June 15 your payoff isn't $100,000 it is $100,250 (1/2 a month worth of interest).

Additionally, since mortgage payments are always due on the 1st and since they are paid in arrears, you will pay a partial month of interest on the new loan. So if you close on June 15, you need to pay off $100,250 and you will also need to pay for 15 days of interest on the new loan. Then your first new month begins July 1 and you'll make your first regular payment on the new loan on August 1.

There also may be some overlap where you are paying interest on 2 loans at once. Let's say you get funding for your new loan on the 15th of the month, but the old loan isn't paid off until the 18th of the month. You'll pay interest on both loans for 3 days.


There are also escrow prepaids which include home owners insurance premiums and property taxes. Depending on your taxes and insurance costs are those costs could be substantial.

Thank you very much for this and to the poster who answered above you.

I'm not escrowing any insurance or taxes, I pay those out of pocket on my own.

So nothing seems out of the ordinary, it all seems to make sense now. I just wanted to make sure they weren't boosting my principal amount in an effort to cover up the no-cost thing.

[DrGrnTum]

Another thing that has been pointed out in this tread.
Make sure the email you use to login to Better's site is the same as what is active on the account for the Amex card.
I had issue with this, but I think I have it worked out.

Good luck.

That's a good reminder. Will make sure that the same email @ is used for both Amex and Better. So far, I have one LE in hand, while waiting for others. Should I go forward with Better now with this LE, and contact Better again if I later get better offers (which means contacting Better multiple times), or wait till I get all of the LEs before proceeding?

My concern with waiting is whether rates might increase during that time. But, I'm not sure if going back and forth with Better with multiple LE rates (as they slowly come in) will be an issue?

I discussed this with the Better agent and she said that they will again match any formal LE.
For me I was shooting for a target rate and when I found it, I went for it.
In my opinion one could crazy chasing the best deal.

In reading other posts on this thread, I get the feeling that things are changing with Better.
They may not be as responsive as they were with me.
Also, I believe I read in this thread that the $2,500 promotion will be up in July?
Others I am sure will correct me on this.

[nepats]

I keep seeing these great rates in this thread, so it is making me wonder if I should refi again. I am currently in year 2 of 10/1 ARM @ 3.0. Is it worth pursuing say 30 year @ 2.75 now or roll the dice that the rates will go lower soon?

[3of10]

Hi all - this thread has been so helpful. I can't believe I am even here, I refi'd last October from 3.75% to 3.25%!

Anyway - would love any thoughts comparing these two options. Both LenderFi and Loan Depot are offering me 30 year 2.75% no closing costs. Loan Depot is actually coming out with a credit of $433, but they require me to escrow taxes and insurance (so it will reduce my my prepaids). I currently escrow just taxes, but not insurance get a discount from Amica for paying annually and on auto pay (plus the credit card points!).

LenderFi is offering 2.75% with $0 closing costs as well, with no escrow required.

I have spent more time on the phone with Loan Depot, but they have been more salesly and dragging feet on loan estimate. LenderFi took a bit longer to get on the phone, but provided the Loan Estimate quickly and is ready for me to e-sign.

Any thoughts? I'm leaning toward LenderFi for the benefit of no escrow and the bird in the hand loan estimate.

Hello berg, did LenderFi and Loan Depot offer the 2.75% with 0 closing costs right from the start? If you don't mind, can you update with the type of rate, and loan balance you've requested? I'm looking for a 30 yr fixed with a $300K loan, and the best they're offering is 2.875% with around .2 points.

[BrandonBogle]

My question, is the above is based on a loan balance of $683,000. My current principal is $677k. What is making up that extra $6k in difference between current principal and new principal?

My broker was saying something about per-diem interest from my existing loan and new interest for the new loan or something like that... but I can't come up with the 6k difference and feel like i'm getting ripped off.

I was hoping no cost/no fee meant my existing loan with balance of 677k goes away (gets paid off), and new loan with balance of 677k starts at lower rate.
Can someone explain?

Others provided very good explanations. If you want further detail for us to help/answer completely, please share the amounts in each section of your Loan Estimate. All the answers should lie in the details there.

[3of10]

Another thing that has been pointed out in this tread.
Make sure the email you use to login to Better's site is the same as what is active on the account for the Amex card.
I had issue with this, but I think I have it worked out.

Good luck.

That's a good reminder. Will make sure that the same email @ is used for both Amex and Better. So far, I have one LE in hand, while waiting for others. Should I go forward with Better now with this LE, and contact Better again if I later get better offers (which means contacting Better multiple times), or wait till I get all of the LEs before proceeding?

My concern with waiting is whether rates might increase during that time. But, I'm not sure if going back and forth with Better with multiple LE rates (as they slowly come in) will be an issue?

I discussed this with the Better agent and she said that they will again match any formal LE.
For me I was shooting for a target rate and when I found it, I went for it.
In my opinion one could crazy chasing the best deal.

In reading other posts on this thread, I get the feeling that things are changing with Better.
They may not be as responsive as they were with me.
Also, I believe I read in this thread that the $2,500 promotion will be up in July?
Others I am sure will correct me on this.

I agree. I have a target rate, but they haven't hit it, but I'm seeing other posters being given the rates that I'm looking for. So, it's a little tough going at this time.

[armeliusc]

Can someone explain prepaids to me?

I'm working with a broker.
Original loan 3.375% on 780k 4 years ago. I have paid extra principal and have $677k remaining on loan. Payment is 3448/month

New refi option - 3% 30 year, no fees/no cost. Lender credit matches up dollar for dollar on all costs, (title, application fee, waived appraisal). The monthly payment would be roughly 2880, saving me $568 per month which is great.

My question, is the above is based on a loan balance of $683,000. My current principal is $677k. What is making up that extra $6k in difference between current principal and new principal?

My broker was saying something about per-diem interest from my existing loan and new interest for the new loan or something like that... but I can't come up with the 6k difference and feel like i'm getting ripped off.

I was hoping no cost/no fee meant my existing loan with balance of 677k goes away (gets paid off), and new loan with balance of 677k starts at lower rate.
Can someone explain?

Your loan balance and your payoff balance are not the same. Very simplistically, let's pretend you have $100,00 loan with a $1000 payment and $500 of that payment is interest and $500 of that payment is principal. When you log into your bank website on June 1 it says "$100,000 balance". If you log in on June 30, the balance is $100,000. But you've accrued $500 in interest, and when you make your July 1 payment, $500 will pay that interest accrual and $500 will pay down the loan. Now your balance shows $99,500.

Depending on the day you close you will accrue interest that needs to be paid. If your new loan is paying off the $100,000 balance is on June 15 your payoff isn't $100,000 it is $100,250 (1/2 a month worth of interest).

Additionally, since mortgage payments are always due on the 1st and since they are paid in arrears, you will pay a partial month of interest on the new loan. So if you close on June 15, you need to pay off $100,250 and you will also need to pay for 15 days of interest on the new loan. Then your first new month begins July 1 and you'll make your first regular payment on the new loan on August 1.

There also may be some overlap where you are paying interest on 2 loans at once. Let's say you get funding for your new loan on the 15th of the month, but the old loan isn't paid off until the 18th of the month. You'll pay interest on both loans for 3 days.


There are also escrow prepaids which include home owners insurance premiums and property taxes. Depending on your taxes and insurance costs are those costs could be substantial.

Thank you very much for this and to the poster who answered above you.

I'm not escrowing any insurance or taxes, I pay those out of pocket on my own.

So nothing seems out of the ordinary, it all seems to make sense now. I just wanted to make sure they weren't boosting my principal amount in an effort to cover up the no-cost thing.

You have to look at the Loan Estimates to be sure. It is possible that there are costs that rolled into the loan. So you won't need to come up with cash to pay these costs, but technically it's not a really a "no cost" per se, depending on what are rolled into the loan. 6K seems high to just covering the interests if you don't have any escrow. There will be taxes and title fee also, which may be rolled into the loan.

[frugalNY]

Hi, I've been given a verbal ballpark quote by Loan Depot yesterday. I'm not sure if this is attractive given the closing cost. Please advise.

Property approx market value: 1.1-1.2M
Credit: 800+

Current Loan:
30 yr fixed
Rate: 3.625
Original loan amount: $700,000
Current loan amount: $670,000
27 months in

Loan Depot offer:
30 yr fixed
Rate: 2.875
Loan amount: $670,000
Ballpark closing cost including transfer fee and title stuff: ~$8000
the clock starts back at 30 yr again


I don't know if location matters but I'm in NY. Please advise if it's even worth pursuing. Loan Depot is the only lender I reached out so far as
I'm not inclined to give out personal info through web application most seem to require before giving a quote.

Thanks and much appreciated,
frugalNY

[senthilm]

Any one from Seatle area that refinanced? My. rates are awful with better.com and aimloan and costco refinance is around 3.125%
how are people getting in high 2's?

[adv_marmot]

Has anyone refinanced with a new lender shortly after closing a refi with LenderFI? It has been three months since closing a refi with LenderFI but with rates continuing to drop I would like to refi again. I know LenderFI verbally said I needed to wait 6 months but I think that was a deterrent to keep me from refinancing with a new lender right away. I don't know of any legal reason why I can't refi whenever I like.

[Familyman2012]

Another thing that has been pointed out in this tread.
Make sure the email you use to login to Better's site is the same as what is active on the account for the Amex card.
I had issue with this, but I think I have it worked out.

Good luck.

That's a good reminder. Will make sure that the same email @ is used for both Amex and Better. So far, I have one LE in hand, while waiting for others. Should I go forward with Better now with this LE, and contact Better again if I later get better offers (which means contacting Better multiple times), or wait till I get all of the LEs before proceeding?

My concern with waiting is whether rates might increase during that time. But, I'm not sure if going back and forth with Better with multiple LE rates (as they slowly come in) will be an issue?

I discussed this with the Better agent and she said that they will again match any formal LE.
For me I was shooting for a target rate and when I found it, I went for it.
In my opinion one could crazy chasing the best deal.

In reading other posts on this thread, I get the feeling that things are changing with Better.
They may not be as responsive as they were with me.
Also, I believe I read in this thread that the $2,500 promotion will be up in July?
Others I am sure will correct me on this.

I agree. I have a target rate, but they haven't hit it, but I'm seeing other posters being given the rates that I'm looking for. So, it's a little tough going at this time.

Just remember that you don’t want to take to long and lose out on the Amex promo. Less than a month left but your loan has to close before 10/28 no exception. So the earlier you apply the better. Lots of stories out there that people have delays or hiccups during closing process.

For me my check list was:
Get below 3% no escrow. I got 2.875 20 years
Closing cost covered including prepaids: got it
Amex promo: got it (hopefully) lol

I’m coming from a 4.3% 335,000
Closing cost all covered with a -986 extra credit
Amex promo

I’m potentially walking away with $3486
(Lots of people got better than me) but this was a great deal for my situation.
Plus saving 103,000 interest.

I honestly could’ve chase rates better. But this is a tiresome process. I didn’t want to lose out on this deal. Bird in hand.

To me,Walking away with cash (promo/ extra LC)is more important than saving 20 bucks on my monthly payment. Especially if rates fall again. I’ll refi again.

My point, everyone has a different situation so don’t get hung up trying to get the ultimate deal when that deal might not happen and things start to go south.

Cheers

[Jcwcable]

Thanks to this forum I'm a bit more optimistic - the AMEX $2500 is going to cut my closing costs in half. Here's what I'm getting apples to apples on a 202k loan for 30 years at 2.75%. I have a few offers for lowers % by purchasing points but 2.75% is as low as better.com is offering and really the price point is about where I want to be anyway. I am disappointed that Better dropped the $1000 cash, I'm going to see what they can do to make up for that. I'm hopeful they can waive the appraisal and still throw down the $100 they offering, equaling $650 off - that's all assuming they will match the other two lenders. Still waiting on quotes from Quiken and NorthPointe.

Better: D+E= $6,298
Credible: = $5,132
LenderFI = $6,306

One question that might be not so intelligent... In comparing a 20 year vs a 30 year, if the interest rate is the same why would I not take the 30 year to add flexibility. From what I'm seeing a 30 year would only cost me about $300 more in fees. I understand the 20 year would pay it off sooner but if I felt inclined and had the discipline couldn't I just submit additional premium payments turning the 30 year loan into a 20 year. Basically paying an additional $300 for added flexibility?

[dave8228]

Thanks to this forum I'm a bit more optimistic - the AMEX $2500 is going to cut my closing costs in half. Here's what I'm getting apples to apples on a 202k loan for 30 years at 2.75%. I have a few offers for lowers % by purchasing points but 2.75% is as low as better.com is offering and really the price point is about where I want to be anyway. I am disappointed that Better dropped the $1000 cash, I'm going to see what they can do to make up for that. I'm hopeful they can waive the appraisal and still throw down the $100 they offering, equaling $650 off - that's all assuming they will match the other two lenders. Still waiting on quotes from Quiken and NorthPointe.

Better: D+E= $6,298
Credible: = $5,132
LenderFI = $6,306

One question that might be not so intelligent... In comparing a 20 year vs a 30 year, if the interest rate is the same why would I not take the 30 year to add flexibility. From what I'm seeing a 30 year would only cost me about $300 more in fees. I understand the 20 year would pay it off sooner but if I felt inclined and had the discipline couldn't I just submit additional premium payments turning the 30 year loan into a 20 year. Basically paying an additional $300 for added flexibility?

I was debating between a 25 or 30 year. I ended up going with the 30 because, like you said, it gives me the option to pay the extra money every month if I choose to versus being required to. I calculated it and if I pay the difference in P+I between 30 and 25 year every month starting from payment #1, I will have it paid off in 25 years and pay the same amount in interest. Whatever helps you sleep better at night!

[tuck3979]

Thanks to this forum I'm a bit more optimistic - the AMEX $2500 is going to cut my closing costs in half. Here's what I'm getting apples to apples on a 202k loan for 30 years at 2.75%. I have a few offers for lowers % by purchasing points but 2.75% is as low as better.com is offering and really the price point is about where I want to be anyway. I am disappointed that Better dropped the $1000 cash, I'm going to see what they can do to make up for that. I'm hopeful they can waive the appraisal and still throw down the $100 they offering, equaling $650 off - that's all assuming they will match the other two lenders. Still waiting on quotes from Quiken and NorthPointe.

Better: D+E= $6,298
Credible: = $5,132
LenderFI = $6,306

One question that might be not so intelligent... In comparing a 20 year vs a 30 year, if the interest rate is the same why would I not take the 30 year to add flexibility. From what I'm seeing a 30 year would only cost me about $300 more in fees. I understand the 20 year would pay it off sooner but if I felt inclined and had the discipline couldn't I just submit additional premium payments turning the 30 year loan into a 20 year. Basically paying an additional $300 for added flexibility?

The answer is - TAKE THE 30. Assuming the same rate, there is absolutely no reason to take a 20 (unless the cost was significantly different). The 30 gives more flexibility, you can easily pay on a 20 year schedule doing some simple math, and if you lose your job, etc. you have the ability to lower your payment. 20 year loans were briefly a good deal around April/May, you could get 2.75% easier/cheaper on a 20 vs. a 30. Now in June the 2.75% is very attainable for 30years, many are getting them no cost at this point. 20 year loans have stagnated in the same range, so no reason to chase them at this point.

[Beach]

Locked today at LenderFi @ 2.75%, $0 out of pocket costs for 15yr Fixed Refi. Going to save 1% on my old mortgage rate. Application was painless, documentation was minimal. 57% LTV, 800+ credit score.

We'll see how it goes

[tuck3979]

Refinance completed.

6/15: Locked at Better
6/25: Title cleared, underwriting completed already
6/30: Closed, wire submitted (escrow)

2.75% 30 year
A+B+C+E = $1,100
Credit = $3,867
AMEX = $2500

Total profit = $5,267

I did escrow, so paid out of pocket at close and will get check back from prior lender. Escrow calc was spot on, no crazy overpay, so will be wiped out by refunded escrow later this month. I will be monitoring the boards and will definitely jump back in for a no-cost 2.5% 30year if we get there.

[3of10]

Thanks to this forum I'm a bit more optimistic - the AMEX $2500 is going to cut my closing costs in half. Here's what I'm getting apples to apples on a 202k loan for 30 years at 2.75%. I have a few offers for lowers % by purchasing points but 2.75% is as low as better.com is offering and really the price point is about where I want to be anyway. I am disappointed that Better dropped the $1000 cash, I'm going to see what they can do to make up for that. I'm hopeful they can waive the appraisal and still throw down the $100 they offering, equaling $650 off - that's all assuming they will match the other two lenders. Still waiting on quotes from Quiken and NorthPointe.

Better: D+E= $6,298
Credible: = $5,132
LenderFI = $6,306

One question that might be not so intelligent... In comparing a 20 year vs a 30 year, if the interest rate is the same why would I not take the 30 year to add flexibility. From what I'm seeing a 30 year would only cost me about $300 more in fees. I understand the 20 year would pay it off sooner but if I felt inclined and had the discipline couldn't I just submit additional premium payments turning the 30 year loan into a 20 year. Basically paying an additional $300 for added flexibility?

There are a number of variables involved when deciding between 20 yr vs 30 yr. A few of them are:

1 - How many years have you been in your current home?
2 - How many years do you plan on being in the home?
3 - How secure are you in your present job? The last time I did a refi, I went with the 30 yr lower monthly payment because they were doing layoffs in the building.
4 - The difference between the two rates. A 20 yr should have a lower rate than the 30 yr.

My question would be why the 20 yr and 30 yr have the same interest rate with no big difference in costs? That shouldn't be the case.

[Familyman2012]

I had the same thought process.

But for me, I know myself. I don’t think I would be consistent making principle payments. Just being honest.At first, probably. But with 2 young kids. Things tend to get in the way. So I needed a 20 year to force me to pay.

I went from a 25 years left originally 30 years to 20 year.

[BetterSaveThanLater]

Any one from Seatle area that refinanced? My. rates are awful with better.com and aimloan and costco refinance is around 3.125%
how are people getting in high 2's?

LenderFi has been the best I've seen with 3% on 30 year fixed with $0 closing cost. In Seattle area, perhaps you're also in high conforming or jumbo loan territory. LenderFi is the outlier from my experience in terms of handling anything with a higher balance.

[3of10]

Just remember that you don’t want to take to long and lose out on the Amex promo. Less than a month left but your loan has to close before 10/28 no exception. So the earlier you apply the better. Lots of stories out there that people have delays or hiccups during closing process.

For me my check list was:
Get below 3% no escrow. I got 2.875 20 years
Closing cost covered including prepaids: got it
Amex promo: got it (hopefully) lol

I’m coming from a 4.3% 335,000
Closing cost all covered with a -986 extra credit
Amex promo

I’m potentially walking away with $3486
(Lots of people got better than me) but this was a great deal for my situation.
Plus saving 103,000 interest.

I honestly could’ve chase rates better. But this is a tiresome process. I didn’t want to lose out on this deal. Bird in hand.

To me,Walking away with cash (promo/ extra LC)is more important than saving 20 bucks on my monthly payment. Especially if rates fall again. I’ll refi again.

My point, everyone has a different situation so don’t get hung up trying to get the ultimate deal when that deal might not happen and things start to go south.

Cheers

Exactly. I keep telling myself that the "sweet spot" in getting the best rates/credits are over. Time to get what's current for now.

[soup_can]

I received a Loan Depot loan estimate for 2.25 15 year fixed $239,000 loan amount with an A+B+C of $2,572. Seems like a pretty good deal.

[jinnix]

I am trying to decide which option to pick with Better.com. Was told I can finance my closing cost (9500) + points. Given the low rates now, I am coming from 4%. I am leaning towards picking the lowest rate possible. But they also offering 7/1 and 10/1 with even lower rates. I am debating between either the 7/1 2.25% vs 30 yr fixed 2.625%. Am I thinking about this right? Why wouldn't I choose the lowest rate and finance all the costs?

LoanCost Pt LoanAmt Type Total Rate Pmt CurPmt Saving
9500 7397 380585 7/1Adj 397482 2.250% ($1,519.36) 1853 $333.64
9500 7344 380585 7/1Adj 397429 2.375% ($1,544.62) 1853 $308.38
9500 5863 380585 7/1Adj 395948 2.500% ($1,564.47) 1853 $288.53
9500 4478 380585 7/1Adj 394563 2.625% ($1,584.76) 1853 $268.24
9500 7937 380585 10/1Adj 398022 2.500% ($1,572.67) 1853 $280.33
9500 7743 380585 10/1Adj 397828 2.625% ($1,597.88) 1853 $255.12
9500 8866 380585 30YrFixed 398951 2.625% ($1,602.39) 1853 $250.61
9500 4440 380585 30YrFixed 394525 2.750% ($1,610.61) 1853 $242.39
9500 2244 380585 30YrFixed 392329 2.875% ($1,627.74) 1853 $225.26
9500 577 380585 30YrFixed 390662 3.000% ($1,647.05) 1853 $205.95

[Jags4186]

I am trying to decide which option to pick with Better.com. Was told I can finance my closing cost (9500) + points. Given the low rates now, I am coming from 4%. I am leaning towards picking the lowest rate possible. But they also offering 7/1 and 10/1 with even lower rates. I am debating between either the 7/1 2.25% vs 30 yr fixed 2.625%. Am I thinking about this right? Why wouldn't I choose the lowest rate and finance all the costs?

If you pay for a lower rate now then you lose the opportunity to no cost refinance that rate in the future if rates decrease. Rates are going to be low for the next year or two.

[bluebolt]

Has anyone refinanced with a new lender shortly after closing a refi with LenderFI? It has been three months since closing a refi with LenderFI but with rates continuing to drop I would like to refi again. I know LenderFI verbally said I needed to wait 6 months but I think that was a deterrent to keep me from refinancing with a new lender right away. I don't know of any legal reason why I can't refi whenever I like.

They don't claim you can't refi. They only claim that they will get any money that they put toward your closing back.

[Berean]

Locked today at LenderFi @ 2.75%, $0 out of pocket costs for 15yr Fixed Refi. Going to save 1% on my old mortgage rate. Application was painless, documentation was minimal. 57% LTV, 800+ credit score.

We'll see how it goes

May I ask the amount of your loan?

[Jcwcable]

Thanks to this forum I'm a bit more optimistic - the AMEX $2500 is going to cut my closing costs in half. Here's what I'm getting apples to apples on a 202k loan for 30 years at 2.75%. I have a few offers for lowers % by purchasing points but 2.75% is as low as better.com is offering and really the price point is about where I want to be anyway. I am disappointed that Better dropped the $1000 cash, I'm going to see what they can do to make up for that. I'm hopeful they can waive the appraisal and still throw down the $100 they offering, equaling $650 off - that's all assuming they will match the other two lenders. Still waiting on quotes from Quiken and NorthPointe.

Better: D+E= $6,298
Credible: = $5,132
LenderFI = $6,306

One question that might be not so intelligent... In comparing a 20 year vs a 30 year, if the interest rate is the same why would I not take the 30 year to add flexibility. From what I'm seeing a 30 year would only cost me about $300 more in fees. I understand the 20 year would pay it off sooner but if I felt inclined and had the discipline couldn't I just submit additional premium payments turning the 30 year loan into a 20 year. Basically paying an additional $300 for added flexibility?

There are a number of variables involved when deciding between 20 yr vs 30 yr. A few of them are:

1 - How many years have you been in your current home?
2 - How many years do you plan on being in the home?
3 - How secure are you in your present job? The last time I did a refi, I went with the 30 yr lower monthly payment because they were doing layoffs in the building.
4 - The difference between the two rates. A 20 yr should have a lower rate than the 30 yr.

My question would be why the 20 yr and 30 yr have the same interest rate with no big difference in costs? That shouldn't be the case.

I get it! The 20 year should be quite a difference but the fee/cost difference isn't significant enough for me to justify forcing myself into the higher payment unless I CHOOSE to.
All 2.75% followed by their fees.
Better.com 30 year $6,501 (Not including amex statement or appraisal waiver)
Better.com 20 Year $5,305 (")

Credible 30 Year $5,132
Credible 20 Year $4,878

LoanDepot 30 Year: $5,556

[happyyoda]

Does anyone have lender recommendations for Jumbo Refinances in California? What is the best rate that people are getting?

[limeyx]

Refi with Better closed last Friday.

$450k at 2.625%, $1.5k lender credit to offset their fees - so essentially no fees.

I was a bit skeptical but better was actually very easy to work with.

Nice. I sent my Quicken LE to Better and they ... bettered it by a bit (it was tricky since QL had the appraisal fee still included but will waive this later)
Then I showed the LE to Quicken and told them about the Amex credit and they offered $2000 in lender credits, so it was close enough and we will keep going with QL

Quicken told me that they too offer the $2,500 AmEx credit.

Interesting, I do see that. I wonder if somehow I can make them give this to me also !

I applied online with Quicken. When they called me, I asked about the AmEx credit. He put a notation in my file. He said that if and when I lock with Quicken, they will ask for my AmEx account number to post the credit.
See this link: https://www.americanexpress.com/us/camp ... ken-loans/

Thanks!

[Sharp]

Any feedback/opinions on the 3.25% rate for scenario below? Is the $5k allowance they’re adding for escrow typical practice?


Loan Amount: 334631
Duration: 20 years

Interest Rate: 3.25%

A: 1595
B: 112
C: 970
D: 2677
E: 897
F: 149
G: 2377
H: N/A
I: 3373
J: 2496 (D+I of 6050, minus 3554 lender credit)

Calculated Cash to Close
Loan Amount: 334631
Total Closing Costs: -2496
Estimated Total Payoffs and Payments: -329631
Estimated Cash to borrower: 2504
Estimated Closing Costs Financed: 2496

[AnnabEllie]

Does anyone have lender recommendations for Jumbo Refinances in California? What is the best rate that people are getting?

If you live/work within the Travis CU service area (Solano, Yolo, Contra Costa, Merced, Napa, Alameda, Colusa, Placer, Sacramento, San Joaquin, Sonoma, Stanislaus counties), they were the most competitive I could find. Better couldn't match.

I locked on 6/22 for 3.0% with -0.75 discount points so it's no cost; actually getting money back towards pre-paids/escrow. 3.0% is their rate floor so they won't go lower. Their rates are up a bit - looks like right now you'll have to pay 0.375 points to get that rate, but it's changing daily.

Loan amount: $519,000 (technically super-conforming but they are writing it as jumbo as their rates for jumbo are better than conforming right now)
LTV: hopefully 80% (bought with 10% down last year), but rate is good up to 95% LTV, just would need to pay PMI
D+E: $3057
Lender Credit: $3893
Total Cost (excluding pre-paids/escrow): -$836

[BrandonBogle]

Any feedback/opinions on the 3.25% rate for scenario below? Is the $5k allowance they’re adding for escrow typical practice?
...
Loan Amount: 334631
Total Closing Costs: -2496
Estimated Total Payoffs and Payments: -329631
Estimated Cash to borrower: 2504
Estimated Closing Costs Financed: 2496

The $5k is them financing $2,500 of the escrow and giving you $2,500 cash. Unless you want the cash in hand, you can have them lower the loan about by $2,500. The $2,496 financed for the escrow account would presumably be about equal to your existing escrow account that would be refunded to you. You can then use that to make a payment on the new loan, thereby not having to provide cash to close.

[jinnix]

I am trying to decide which option to pick with Better.com. Was told I can finance my closing cost (9500) + points. Given the low rates now, I am coming from 4%. I am leaning towards picking the lowest rate possible. But they also offering 7/1 and 10/1 with even lower rates. I am debating between either the 7/1 2.25% vs 30 yr fixed 2.625%. Am I thinking about this right? Why wouldn't I choose the lowest rate and finance all the costs?

If you pay for a lower rate now then you lose the opportunity to no cost refinance that rate in the future if rates decrease. Rates are going to be low for the next year or two.

Thanks for the insight. Every time I do a mortgage transaction, I felt like going through a body pad down so wasn't really thinking I would want to do another refi soon ...

[jinnix]

I have rental property with rates around 4.5%. Has anyone recently successfully refinance investment property? Which lender did you go with? Thank you

[mx711yam]

I refinanced a rental at the very beginning of this thread with randolph brooks federal credit union. Super easy and got a low rate.

I'm having a heck of a time getting a cash out refi on my primary at the moment, wish it was as smooth as the investment refi was!

[jw2s]

[/quote]

If you pay for a lower rate now then you lose the opportunity to no cost refinance that rate in the future if rates decrease. Rates are going to be low for the next year or two.
[/quote]

Hmmm,

I closed a few weeks ago on a 2.875% 30yr fixed. Closing costs were, say, $2,000(I don't remember). Mostly Title fee.

If my 'break even' point is a year from now, would it make sense to refinance again to a lower rate after a year? I'm regretting not doing a 'no cost' refi, but not knowing the future, what I had was good enough in my book.

I guess my question is this: If what I save in my monthly payments pays for the closing costs in a year, is it then a 'no cost refi' enabling me to refi again since I 'reset' the cost of the OG refi to zero?

Sorry if I'm not getting this out right...

Or am I confusing this?

[Familyman2012]

If you pay for a lower rate now then you lose the opportunity to no cost refinance that rate in the future if rates decrease. Rates are going to be low for the next year or two.
[/quote]

Hmmm,

I closed a few weeks ago on a 2.875% 30yr fixed. Closing costs were, say, $2,000(I don't remember). Mostly Title fee.

If my 'break even' point is a year from now, would it make sense to refinance again to a lower rate after a year? I'm regretting not doing a 'no cost' refi, but not knowing the future, what I had was good enough in my book.

I guess my question is this: If what I save in my monthly payments pays for the closing costs in a year, is it then a 'no cost refi' enabling me to refi again since I 'reset' the cost of the OG refi to zero?

Sorry if I'm not getting this out right...

Or am I confusing this?
[/quote]

I believe what he means is for example.. let say you started with a 4.5 %. And now let say you received a “no cost” refi Loan estimate and the offer was 2.99% for 30 years. Since you paid $2000, they gave you a lower rate of 2.875%

Let’s say, in July rates goes down and everyone is getting 2.875% 30 years for no cost..

You could’ve refi at 2.99 no cost and saved $2000 and then refi again and gotten the 2.875 at no cost.

Hope that makes sense and hope that’s what he meant. That’s why lots of bogleheads preaches no cost. Including me.

[berg]

Hi all - this thread has been so helpful. I can't believe I am even here, I refi'd last October from 3.75% to 3.25%!

Anyway - would love any thoughts comparing these two options. Both LenderFi and Loan Depot are offering me 30 year 2.75% no closing costs. Loan Depot is actually coming out with a credit of $433, but they require me to escrow taxes and insurance (so it will reduce my my prepaids). I currently escrow just taxes, but not insurance get a discount from Amica for paying annually and on auto pay (plus the credit card points!).

LenderFi is offering 2.75% with $0 closing costs as well, with no escrow required.

I have spent more time on the phone with Loan Depot, but they have been more salesly and dragging feet on loan estimate. LenderFi took a bit longer to get on the phone, but provided the Loan Estimate quickly and is ready for me to e-sign.

Any thoughts? I'm leaning toward LenderFi for the benefit of no escrow and the bird in the hand loan estimate.

Hello berg, did LenderFi and Loan Depot offer the 2.75% with 0 closing costs right from the start? If you don't mind, can you update with the type of rate, and loan balance you've requested? I'm looking for a 30 yr fixed with a $300K loan, and the best they're offering is 2.875% with around .2 points.

I needed to get them on the phone. Loan Depot matched Lender Fi. Lendefi did tell me rates ticked up today from my lock at 2.75% yesterday.

My loan is $510k for 30 year in Massachusetts.

[Jcwcable]

Final Scenario for me:
I got LoanDepot to match Better.com's offer of $2500 off for amex and free appraisal. It brought the original D+E from $5,556 to now $3,032. Our current loan has 25 years remaining at $202,700 at 4%. This would be a 30 year loan of $206,500 at 2.75%. What do you guys think, pull the trigger or keep plugging away? The gal from LoanDepot wants it pushed through by midnight because she's concerned the discount could fall off. Probably sales pitch but like I said, they were already lower than Better.com and dropped another $2,500.

I should mention credit scores for me and the wife were 782 and 808.

[jw2s]

Hmmm,

I closed a few weeks ago on a 2.875% 30yr fixed. Closing costs were, say, $2,000(I don't remember). Mostly Title fee.

If my 'break even' point is a year from now, would it make sense to refinance again to a lower rate after a year? I'm regretting not doing a 'no cost' refi, but not knowing the future, what I had was good enough in my book.

I guess my question is this: If what I save in my monthly payments pays for the closing costs in a year, is it then a 'no cost refi' enabling me to refi again since I 'reset' the cost of the OG refi to zero?

Sorry if I'm not getting this out right...

Or am I confusing this?
[/quote]

I believe what he means is for example.. let say you started with a 4.5 %. And now let say you received a “no cost” refi Loan estimate and the offer was 2.99% for 30 years. Since you paid $2000, they gave you a lower rate of 2.875%

Let’s say, in July rates goes down and everyone is getting 2.875% 30 years for no cost..

You could’ve refi at 2.99 no cost and saved $2000 and then refi again and gotten the 2.875 at no cost.

Hope that makes sense and hope that’s what he meant. That’s why lots of bogleheads preaches no cost. Including me.
[/quote]


Familyman,

I think I understand what you are saying. Sequential no cost refis afford one the ability to refi anytime thereafter without worrying about recouping closing costs. There is nothing to lose.

But say I save $200/month by refinancing now. In 10 months, I've zeroed out the $2,000 closing costs. Is this now essentially a no cost refi?
In 10 months, perhaps a no cost refi comes along at a lower rate. Would doing this cost me nothing since the first refi is now 'payed off'?

[gullit18]

Refinance completed.

6/15: Locked at Better
6/25: Title cleared, underwriting completed already
6/30: Closed, wire submitted (escrow)

2.75% 30 year
A+B+C+E = $1,100
Credit = $3,867
AMEX = $2500

Total profit = $5,267

I did escrow, so paid out of pocket at close and will get check back from prior lender. Escrow calc was spot on, no crazy overpay, so will be wiped out by refunded escrow later this month. I will be monitoring the boards and will definitely jump back in for a no-cost 2.5% 30year if we get there.

How did you get the $3,867 credit? That's one thing I haven't been understanding, how is everyone getting credits? You simply ask and get a credit? I was able to get Better.com to match but have not inquired about a credit.

I have a 15 year at 2.5% with A+B+C+E= 1,775. No credits.

[Jcwcable]

Final Scenario for me:
I got LoanDepot to match Better.com's offer of $2500 off for amex and free appraisal. It brought the original D+E from $5,556 to now $3,032. Our current loan has 25 years remaining at $202,700 at 4%. This would be a 30 year loan of $206,500 at 2.75%. What do you guys think, pull the trigger or keep plugging away? The gal from LoanDepot wants it pushed through by midnight because she's concerned the discount could fall off. Probably sales pitch but like I said, they were already lower than Better.com and dropped another $2,500.

I should mention credit scores for me and the wife were 782 and 808.

I don't want to be THAT guy but if anyone is on, could use some guidance here. As it stands its only 3k in closing rolled into the loan ($180 in points, $1595 origination fee, $1,085 section C, and a $20 credit report) but I think they could do better. Problem is, I don't know, and is it worth my time or risk to continue on the path. I'm struggling because I see some of the other deals on here (most for higher loans) and wonder if I'm buying the midnight sales pitch.

[mx711yam]

Final Scenario for me:
I got LoanDepot to match Better.com's offer of $2500 off for amex and free appraisal. It brought the original D+E from $5,556 to now $3,032. Our current loan has 25 years remaining at $202,700 at 4%. This would be a 30 year loan of $206,500 at 2.75%. What do you guys think, pull the trigger or keep plugging away? The gal from LoanDepot wants it pushed through by midnight because she's concerned the discount could fall off. Probably sales pitch but like I said, they were already lower than Better.com and dropped another $2,500.

I should mention credit scores for me and the wife were 782 and 808.

I don't want to be THAT guy but if anyone is on, could use some guidance here. As it stands its only 3k in closing rolled into the loan ($180 in points, $1595 origination fee, $1,085 section C, and a $20 credit report) but I think they could do better. Problem is, I don't know, and is it worth my time or risk to continue on the path. I'm struggling because I see some of the other deals on here (most for higher loans) and wonder if I'm buying the midnight sales pitch.

From what I've seen, and my dealing with over 10 (yes 10) lenders, these loans are based on so many different circumstances it's almost impossible to know. Shockingly loan amount seems to be a big contributor, I owe so little on my residence that they have told me on the phone it's not a priority loan for them. I'm not sure how some of these people are landing the deals they are, but I have not had that kind of luck. I would say a bird in the hand on this one, if you're happy with what they've offered and it's better than what you have at the moment, take it.

[BarDownHockey]

Final Scenario for me:
I got LoanDepot to match Better.com's offer of $2500 off for amex and free appraisal. It brought the original D+E from $5,556 to now $3,032. Our current loan has 25 years remaining at $202,700 at 4%. This would be a 30 year loan of $206,500 at 2.75%. What do you guys think, pull the trigger or keep plugging away? The gal from LoanDepot wants it pushed through by midnight because she's concerned the discount could fall off. Probably sales pitch but like I said, they were already lower than Better.com and dropped another $2,500.

I should mention credit scores for me and the wife were 782 and 808.

I don't want to be THAT guy but if anyone is on, could use some guidance here. As it stands its only 3k in closing rolled into the loan ($180 in points, $1595 origination fee, $1,085 section C, and a $20 credit report) but I think they could do better. Problem is, I don't know, and is it worth my time or risk to continue on the path. I'm struggling because I see some of the other deals on here (most for higher loans) and wonder if I'm buying the midnight sales pitch.

What does agreeing to this deal tonight commit you to? Said another way, until you have to pay to secure a deal (I.e. an application fee) you can still walk at any minute. If you’re not out anything, go ahead with this offer and continue to shop around to see what you can do. That’ll secure the rate and if you find something better tomorrow, you can bring it back to Loan Depot and ask them to beat it or you’ll have to go with the better deal.

[Jcwcable]

Final Scenario for me:
I got LoanDepot to match Better.com's offer of $2500 off for amex and free appraisal. It brought the original D+E from $5,556 to now $3,032. Our current loan has 25 years remaining at $202,700 at 4%. This would be a 30 year loan of $206,500 at 2.75%. What do you guys think, pull the trigger or keep plugging away? The gal from LoanDepot wants it pushed through by midnight because she's concerned the discount could fall off. Probably sales pitch but like I said, they were already lower than Better.com and dropped another $2,500.

I should mention credit scores for me and the wife were 782 and 808.

I don't want to be THAT guy but if anyone is on, could use some guidance here. As it stands its only 3k in closing rolled into the loan ($180 in points, $1595 origination fee, $1,085 section C, and a $20 credit report) but I think they could do better. Problem is, I don't know, and is it worth my time or risk to continue on the path. I'm struggling because I see some of the other deals on here (most for higher loans) and wonder if I'm buying the midnight sales pitch.

What does agreeing to this deal tonight commit you to? Said another way, until you have to pay to secure a deal (I.e. an application fee) you can still walk at any minute. If you’re not out anything, go ahead with this offer and continue to shop around to see what you can do. That’ll secure the rate and if you find something better tomorrow, you can bring it back to Loan Depot and ask them to beat it or you’ll have to go with the better deal.

That's a good question, Loan depot sent a "Welcome Package" with all the jargon that goes into a loan that I'm trying to read through and see if it binds me to only them in same way shape or form.

Check the image - doesn't this indicate I have five days to sign any of this? But I guess that's the rate and not necessarily the fees discounted.

[BarDownHockey]

Final Scenario for me:
I got LoanDepot to match Better.com's offer of $2500 off for amex and free appraisal. It brought the original D+E from $5,556 to now $3,032. Our current loan has 25 years remaining at $202,700 at 4%. This would be a 30 year loan of $206,500 at 2.75%. What do you guys think, pull the trigger or keep plugging away? The gal from LoanDepot wants it pushed through by midnight because she's concerned the discount could fall off. Probably sales pitch but like I said, they were already lower than Better.com and dropped another $2,500.

I should mention credit scores for me and the wife were 782 and 808.

I don't want to be THAT guy but if anyone is on, could use some guidance here. As it stands its only 3k in closing rolled into the loan ($180 in points, $1595 origination fee, $1,085 section C, and a $20 credit report) but I think they could do better. Problem is, I don't know, and is it worth my time or risk to continue on the path. I'm struggling because I see some of the other deals on here (most for higher loans) and wonder if I'm buying the midnight sales pitch.

What does agreeing to this deal tonight commit you to? Said another way, until you have to pay to secure a deal (I.e. an application fee) you can still walk at any minute. If you’re not out anything, go ahead with this offer and continue to shop around to see what you can do. That’ll secure the rate and if you find something better tomorrow, you can bring it back to Loan Depot and ask them to beat it or you’ll have to go with the better deal.

That's a good question, Loan depot sent a "Welcome Package" with all the jargon that goes into a loan that I'm trying to read through and see if it binds me to only them in same way shape or form.

Check the image - doesn't this indicate I have five days to sign any of this? But I guess that's the rate and not necessarily the fees discounted.

Yes that appears to be referencing just the rate. Without seeing all the fine print, I’m only taking a guess from my experience. But I’ve seen lenders lock the rate, and I’ve signed the rate lock sheet but that’s cost nothing yet. I do have a good faith application fee they are requiring, but in my opinion, until they call for my credit card number, I have the ability to walk away. It looks the same here for you, they’ve locked your rate. Did they send you an official Loan Estimate? If so, then that would give you protection on the costs as they are not allowed to increase the costs listed on there. If she wants you do commit before midnight, make sure to get the official Loan Estimate, review it for accuracy. And try your best to not pay anything yet so that you have the flexibility to choose another lender if needed.