Refinance Mega Thread

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Almond
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Almond » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:02 pm

iridum wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:19 am
dailo wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:48 am
I’m in the process of closing a 30 year @ 2.75% with BOFA for a cash out refinance. Will end up paying about 4K in fees, figured I’d break even in a few years and doubt I’ll refi again anytime soon. They originally matched a 3% offer I got in early March and then transferred 500K assets to get an additional .25% off.
Where did u get the 3% rate? What is the new loan balance? What state are you in?

I am also in the processes of refinance a jumbo loan with BOA with a amatch to 3.125% (from northpointe) and moving assets to secure a 2.875% rate. Closing costs are around 4k as well.
What type of loan

Almond
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Almond » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:11 pm

Just got offer of 3.65 10 year interest only from BOA with about $8k in closing cost. This is before relationship discount,


Anyone recently getting better than that?

MTZ
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MTZ » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:41 pm

LenderFi advertising a 2.5% 30 year fixed on the website front page. Wonder how much it costs to get that rate..

bandoba
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bandoba » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:53 pm

MTZ wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:41 pm
LenderFi advertising a 2.5% 30 year fixed on the website front page. Wonder how much it costs to get that rate..
I believe that 2.5% for 30 yr fixed rate is for purchase and not refi based on the questions it asks you when you click on get quote.

iridum
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by iridum » Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:43 pm

Almond wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:02 pm
iridum wrote:
Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:19 am
dailo wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:48 am
I’m in the process of closing a 30 year @ 2.75% with BOFA for a cash out refinance. Will end up paying about 4K in fees, figured I’d break even in a few years and doubt I’ll refi again anytime soon. They originally matched a 3% offer I got in early March and then transferred 500K assets to get an additional .25% off.
Where did u get the 3% rate? What is the new loan balance? What state are you in?

I am also in the processes of refinance a jumbo loan with BOA with a amatch to 3.125% (from northpointe) and moving assets to secure a 2.875% rate. Closing costs are around 4k as well.
What type of loan
Non conforming jumbo loan.

kski74
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kski74 » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:15 pm

MTZ wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:41 pm
LenderFi advertising a 2.5% 30 year fixed on the website front page. Wonder how much it costs to get that rate..
For The loan I'm shopping, here are their rates for my refi situation as of tonight:

Rate APR Points/Credits
2.625% 2.854% $12,551
2.750% 2.922% $9,305
2.875% 3.002% $6,765
3.000% 3.088% $4,516
3.125% 3.172% $2,231
3.250% 3.258% ($600 credit)
3.375% 3.383% ($1,916 credit)

liamb86
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by liamb86 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:06 pm

I have been looking to refinance for the past 2 months, but I'm not really sure if it makes sense for me.

Current Mortgage
- 30 year mortgage at 3.625%
- 26 years until it will be fully paid off
- Monthly Principal + Interest $1,585

Refinance Options
- 15 Year at 3.0% with $450 in credits. Monthly payment of $2,200.
- 20 Year at 3.375% with $1,700 in credits. Monthly Payment $1,820
- 25 Year at 3.375 with $1,700 in credits. Monthly Payment $1,570

I only plan to stay in the home for the next 2-4 years so the calculated benefit is pretty minimal on the 20 year with higher payments. I could take the 25 year with basically the same payment and the majority of my savings are from the lender credits.

I could afford the payments to the 15 year and could likely make the 10 year work as well. Given that the home will not be long term, does it make more sense to keep the current mortgage and just save the additional cash for the next down payment given the small benefit?

frankandbeans
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frankandbeans » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:32 pm

I wouldn’t bother given the very short time horizon. It may take you most of that two years just to break even.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:00 pm

What do folks generally feel about paying points, particularly in this environment? I’m refinancing the remainder of my 30 year in a 15 year and need to decide on points.

Code: Select all

Rate     Points
------   ------
3.00%    0
2.875%   0.48%
2.75%    0.85%
2.625%   1.23%
2.5%     1.74%
Except for the 2.5% option, break even for these is just under two years. That is using an amortization schedule the interest difference at one year and at two years, plus the reduction in payment over the same one and two years. At the one year mark, just over half of the point cost has been saved in interest and reduced payments.

I'm tempted to take the 2.625% option myself. Add'l, if I agreed to an escrow acct vs. waiving, the points would go down by 0.18%. Personally, I'm worried about servicers making mistakes and having to stay on top of them for a small savings, but I'm open to another line of thought.

mervinj7
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mervinj7 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:32 pm

BrandonBogle wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:00 pm
What do folks generally feel about paying points, particularly in this environment? I’m refinancing the remainder of my 30 year in a 15 year and need to decide on points.

Code: Select all

Rate     Points
------   ------
3.00%    0
2.875%   0.48%
2.75%    0.85%
2.625%   1.23%
2.5%     1.74%
Except for the 2.5% option, break even for these is just under two years. That is using an amortization schedule the interest difference at one year and at two years, plus the reduction in payment over the same one and two years. At the one year mark, just over half of the point cost has been saved in interest and reduced payments.

I'm tempted to take the 2.625% option myself. Add'l, if I agreed to an escrow acct vs. waiving, the points would go down by 0.18%. Personally, I'm worried about servicers making mistakes and having to stay on top of them for a small savings, but I'm open to another line of thought.
I could be doing the math wrong but I don't see how your breakeven point is less than 2 years for the 2.625% option. Let's assume a $500k mortgage. You can scale up appropriately for your own case.

Code: Select all

Rate    Points 	Cost	Payment	Breakeven
------  ------	------	------	------
3.00%    0	0	$3,453	0 yrs
2.625%   1.23%	$6150	$3,363	5.7yrs
I also checked against an online calculator: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/mortgag ... alculator/
In general, I don't buy points. In fact, I prefer negative points in order to have a zero cost closing.

stanford73
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by stanford73 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:44 pm

DH and I are looking to refinance our mortgage, including an $80k HELOC payoff, from a 3.9% interest rate to 3.1%. I would greatly appreciate your thoughts/advice on the following loan estimate from Loan Depot. Should we lock in this rate now?

Please let me know if I've missed any info. Thank you!

Loan Terms

Loan Amount $431,000
Interest Rate 3.125%

Monthly Principal & Interest
See Projected Payments below for your
Estimated Total Monthly Payment $1,846.30

Estimated Closing Costs $4,652 Includes $2,822 in Loan Costs + $2,864 in Other Costs - $1,034

Estimated Cash to Close $1,232 Includes Closing Costs. See Calculating Cash to Close on page 2 for details.

Closing Costs

ORIGINATION FEE $1,595
Recording Fees and Other Taxes $158
Transfer Taxes
Homeowner's Insurance Premium ( months)
Mortgage Insurance Premium ( months)
Prepaid Interest ($36.90 per day for 14 days @ 3.125%) $517
Property Taxes ( months)
Homeowner's Insurance $45.00 per month for 6 mo. $270
Mortgage Insurance per month for mo.
Property Taxes $479.67 per month for 4 mo. $1,919


Loan Amount $431,000
Total Closing Costs (J) -$4,652
Estimated Total Payoffs and Payments -$427,580
Estimated Cash to Close From To Borrower $1,232
Estimated Closing Costs Financed
(Paid from your Loan Amount) $3,420

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:07 pm

mervinj7 wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:32 pm
I could be doing the math wrong but I don't see how your breakeven point is less than 2 years for the 2.625% option. Let's assume a $500k mortgage. You can scale up appropriately for your own case.

Code: Select all

Rate    Points 	Cost	Payment	Breakeven
------  ------	------	------	------
3.00%    0	0	$3,453	0 yrs
2.625%   1.23%	$6150	$3,363	5.7yrs
I also checked against an online calculator: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/mortgag ... alculator/
In general, I don't buy points. In fact, I prefer negative points in order to have a zero cost closing.
The methodology I used was to use an amortization calculator, put in the reduced rate and see what cumulative interest is at the 24 month mark. Then I use the base rate with $$ of the point / 12 as a monthly extra payment for one year. I record the cumulative interest at the 24 month mark. That brought me to $522 I still hadn't paid myself back yet from reduced interest. I then took into account the reduction in the monthly payment. So that dollar amount * 24 is over the $522 calculated above.

So in essence, after "repaying" myself with the difference in the mortgage payment and saving from the reduced interest, I end up with a 2 year payback.

When using online calculators, I've found they use the payment reduction in their calculations, but do not account for the reduced interest over the two years. I ended up finding it easier to use full amortization tables with my specific numbers and compare line-by-line vs. what the online calculators have provided. Using the calculator you lined to for a $500k mortgage, it does $3,453 - $3,363 = $90 and then $6,150 (cost of point) / $90 = 68 months. However, using an amortization schedule, two years in at 2.625% is $24,977 cumulative interest while 3% (with $6,150 in add'l principal paid over the first year) is $28,296. Thus, the reduced rate saved $3,319 in interest that should really be considered.

That said, I did note a discrepancy in my numbers. The calculations I did comparing the the differences use 2.875% as the base rate and look at the difference in point costs from the rate to 2.875% (I did the calculations in real $$ amounts based on my rate table vs. percentage and my rate table has 2.875% selection, showing + $X to get to the listed rate). So basically, it didn't account for the time to make up the 2.875%'s point itself. That puts me at slightly over two years, but still a far cry from 5.7 years.

mervinj7
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mervinj7 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:45 pm

BrandonBogle wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:07 pm
When using online calculators, I've found they use the payment reduction in their calculations, but do not account for the reduced interest over the two years. I ended up finding it easier to use full amortization tables with my specific numbers and compare line-by-line vs. what the online calculators have provided. Using the calculator you lined to for a $500k mortgage, it does $3,453 - $3,363 = $90 and then $6,150 (cost of point) / $90 = 68 months. However, using an amortization schedule, two years in at 2.625% is $24,977 cumulative interest while 3% (with $6,150 in add'l principal paid over the first year) is $28,296. Thus, the reduced rate saved $3,319 in interest that should really be considered.
Much of the payment reduction (e.g. from $3,453 to $3,363) is from the interest reduction. Why do you double count it?
If you don't trust the link I used above, try out Mortgage Professor. It's very well respected here.
https://www.mtgprofessor.com/calculator ... tor3a.html

Another approach I like to use when calculating breakeven dates is to consider what would happen if you refinance in 3 years for the two options you have listed? That is, what are the sunk costs at the end of year 3 and what is the remaining principal?

e5116
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by e5116 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:17 pm

stanford73 wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:44 pm
DH and I are looking to refinance our mortgage, including an $80k HELOC payoff, from a 3.9% interest rate to 3.1%. I would greatly appreciate your thoughts/advice on the following loan estimate from Loan Depot. Should we lock in this rate now?

Please let me know if I've missed any info. Thank you!

Loan Terms

Loan Amount $431,000
Interest Rate 3.125%

Monthly Principal & Interest
See Projected Payments below for your
Estimated Total Monthly Payment $1,846.30

Estimated Closing Costs $4,652 Includes $2,822 in Loan Costs + $2,864 in Other Costs - $1,034

Estimated Cash to Close $1,232 Includes Closing Costs. See Calculating Cash to Close on page 2 for details.

Closing Costs

ORIGINATION FEE $1,595
Recording Fees and Other Taxes $158
Transfer Taxes
Homeowner's Insurance Premium ( months)
Mortgage Insurance Premium ( months)
Prepaid Interest ($36.90 per day for 14 days @ 3.125%) $517
Property Taxes ( months)
Homeowner's Insurance $45.00 per month for 6 mo. $270
Mortgage Insurance per month for mo.
Property Taxes $479.67 per month for 4 mo. $1,919


Loan Amount $431,000
Total Closing Costs (J) -$4,652
Estimated Total Payoffs and Payments -$427,580
Estimated Cash to Close From To Borrower $1,232
Estimated Closing Costs Financed
(Paid from your Loan Amount) $3,420
I would not finance closing costs personally unless you need/don't have the cash. I don't like increasing my loan amount as that just compounds over time. You'll then owe $4652 at closing but with a reduced loan amount and a good chunk of that going to escrow. I believe you should be able to make this change after "locking it in" though. It's just the rate that locks which looks good. Originating fee is maybe on the higher end but maybe you paid points to get rate down....

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:41 pm

mervinj7 wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:45 pm
Much of the payment reduction (e.g. from $3,453 to $3,363) is from the interest reduction. Why do you double count it?
If you don't trust the link I used above, try out Mortgage Professor. It's very well respected here.
https://www.mtgprofessor.com/calculator ... tor3a.html

Another approach I like to use when calculating breakeven dates is to consider what would happen if you refinance in 3 years for the two options you have listed? That is, what are the sunk costs at the end of year 3 and what is the remaining principal?
I hadn't realized that. It was unintentional considering that point. I still prefer looking at the cumulative interest (and oddly that gives different months than simply pmt), so I'll compare again using just those numbers. Much of that is because I could pay off the mortgage today if I wanted to, so I'm not concerned with the monthly dollar difference vs. overall cost (given other priorities for my funds).

Code: Select all

Rate     Points   Breakeven   Cash to close
------   ------   ---------   -------------
3.00%    0                   -$1,351 (credit to me)
2.875%   0.48%    51 months  -$  700 (credit to me)
2.75%    0.85%    45 months  -$  203 (credit to me)
2.625%   1.23%    43 months   $  303
2.5%     1.74%    46 months   $  996
Thank you! In all 4 prior mortgages I always did 0 points. The only reason I am considering it now is because there is a promotional credit I get from this loan that I am considering putting towards points vs. pocketing.
Last edited by BrandonBogle on Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.

stanford73
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by stanford73 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:42 pm

ES5116, thank you for replying! Passing on your comments.

nova148
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nova148 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:52 am

Hello,

Wanted to get some inputs on what folks are seeing on a 15 yr. refinance for a conforming high balance loan. Here are some details

Property State: VA
Outstanding Balance and New Loan Amount: 600K
LTV: ~70%
Credit Score: Excellent (over 800)
Current Loan term: 15 years (with 13 yr 5 mon remaining)
Current rate: 3.75%
Desired loan term: 15 years
Best offer till date: Lending.com (through Costco) -> 2.875%; no points; 60day lock; ~3K closing costs (lender fees, title, taxes) + escrow

Question 1: Does this sound like a competitive rate? Should I shop around more?

Question 2: Does anyone have experience with Sebonic Financial (a division of Cardinal Financial Company) ? I received a lower quote but seemed shady (they said they absolutely don't charge any fees and officer just gave me the rate I told him I was targeting)

Thanks for your help!

Rey
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Rey » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:37 am

I just refinanced a 30yrs fixed @3.125% (no points) with appraisal waived for a total cost of $700. This was after getting a $1000 price match from better.com. Coming down from a rate of 3.75%, I feel pretty good about the deal. What do the BHs think?

nova148
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nova148 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:53 am

Rey wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:37 am
I just refinanced a 30yrs fixed @3.125% (no points) with appraisal waived for a total cost of $700. This was after getting a $1000 price match from better.com. Coming down from a rate of 3.75%, I feel pretty good about the deal. What do the BHs think?
When you say a total cost of $700, what is included in that (taxes, lender's title, lenders fee, etc)?

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:58 am

nova148 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:52 am
Best offer till date: Lending.com (through Costco) -> 2.875%; no points; 60day lock; ~3K closing costs (lender fees, title, taxes) + escrow

Question 1: Does this sound like a competitive rate? Should I shop around more?

Question 2: Does anyone have experience with Sebonic Financial (a division of Cardinal Financial Company) ? I received a lower quote but seemed shady (they said they absolutely don't charge any fees and officer just gave me the rate I told him I was targeting)

Thanks for your help!
Q1 - It does indeed. I wish I could get down that far. You mention escrow and I was able to get the same rate with no points if I did an escrow, or 0.48 point if I waive the escrow. What I'm curious about is your closing costs. You mention $3k + escrow -- when you said taxes in the $3k, did you mean your annual property tax or a different tax? If the former, then what is the $$ amount if you move that to the escrow bucket. If it is something else, it's still competitive, but there have been offers lower than that recently. Perhaps that includes an appraisal and you can get the appraisal waived, saving even more.

Q2 - Never heard of them. That said, a few weeks ago I hadn't heard of a ton of others. Did they send you a Loan Estimate?

holycow007
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by holycow007 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:14 am

All, thanks for the tips in this thread around getting competing quotes
I was able to get a 3%, 30 year with pretty much no closing costs (Amex offer via better)
Going from a 3.375% on 20 yr (18 years remaining) to a 3% 30 year

It frees up approx 300$ in cashflow per month should I choose to and #s show that I have to stay in house for a month to make sense.
It is approx $2K saved over 5 year period.
I don't intend to keep it long (under 15 years to be mortgage free by 55) but the sheer logic of going lower % with no costs trumped my emotional desire to be mortgage free sooner.

frankandbeans
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frankandbeans » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:21 am

nova148 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:52 am
Hello,

Wanted to get some inputs on what folks are seeing on a 15 yr. refinance for a conforming high balance loan. Here are some details

Property State: VA
Outstanding Balance and New Loan Amount: 600K
LTV: ~70%
Credit Score: Excellent (over 800)
Current Loan term: 15 years (with 13 yr 5 mon remaining)
Current rate: 3.75%
Desired loan term: 15 years
Best offer till date: Lending.com (through Costco) -> 2.875%; no points; 60day lock; ~3K closing costs (lender fees, title, taxes) + escrow

Question 1: Does this sound like a competitive rate? Should I shop around more?

Question 2: Does anyone have experience with Sebonic Financial (a division of Cardinal Financial Company) ? I received a lower quote but seemed shady (they said they absolutely don't charge any fees and officer just gave me the rate I told him I was targeting)

Thanks for your help!
Fellow NoVa resident here. That looks like a good rate for a high balance loan at this moment where there seems to be a differential for those vs the traditional conforming limit. I haven’t used Sebonic, but I previously used George Mason Mortgage, which used to be a division of Cardinal (since sold to United Bank), and they were solid.

Did you check with NorthPointe? They’re the only ones who were able to go substantially lower than that for me (locked in early April).

Rey
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Rey » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:19 am

nova148 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:53 am
Rey wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:37 am
I just refinanced a 30yrs fixed @3.125% (no points) with appraisal waived for a total cost of $700. This was after getting a $1000 price match from better.com. Coming down from a rate of 3.75%, I feel pretty good about the deal. What do the BHs think?
When you say a total cost of $700, what is included in that (taxes, lender's title, lenders fee, etc)?
Yes. Basically everything except for the prepaids (escrow, interest)

nova148
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nova148 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:45 am

BrandonBogle wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:58 am
nova148 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:52 am
Best offer till date: Lending.com (through Costco) -> 2.875%; no points; 60day lock; ~3K closing costs (lender fees, title, taxes) + escrow

Question 1: Does this sound like a competitive rate? Should I shop around more?

Question 2: Does anyone have experience with Sebonic Financial (a division of Cardinal Financial Company) ? I received a lower quote but seemed shady (they said they absolutely don't charge any fees and officer just gave me the rate I told him I was targeting)

Thanks for your help!
Q1 - It does indeed. I wish I could get down that far. You mention escrow and I was able to get the same rate with no points if I did an escrow, or 0.48 point if I waive the escrow. What I'm curious about is your closing costs. You mention $3k + escrow -- when you said taxes in the $3k, did you mean your annual property tax or a different tax? If the former, then what is the $$ amount if you move that to the escrow bucket. If it is something else, it's still competitive, but there have been offers lower than that recently. Perhaps that includes an appraisal and you can get the appraisal waived, saving even more.

Q2 - Never heard of them. That said, a few weeks ago I hadn't heard of a ton of others. Did they send you a Loan Estimate?
The offer (15yr, 2.875%, no points) was if I chose to do escrow else the rate would go up slightly. I decided to go with the escrow option.
The 3K closing cost include lender fees, title insurance, settlement fees and transfer taxes. It does not include prepaid amounts (home owner insurance, real estate tax).
Appraisal was waived for me.

Thanks for your reply and feedback. :happy

nova148
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nova148 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:49 am

frankandbeans wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:21 am
nova148 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:52 am

Fellow NoVa resident here. That looks like a good rate for a high balance loan at this moment where there seems to be a differential for those vs the traditional conforming limit. I haven’t used Sebonic, but I previously used George Mason Mortgage, which used to be a division of Cardinal (since sold to United Bank), and they were solid.

Did you check with NorthPointe? They’re the only ones who were able to go substantially lower than that for me (locked in early April).
Thanks frankandbeans. Northpointe was not competitive for me - came in at 3.125% and not much interest in negotiating down. I guess the lenders are probably taking turns to fill their target. Maybe ever week / 2 weeks, someone else has the best offer in town?

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:56 am

nova148 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:49 am
Thanks frankandbeans. Northpointe was not competitive for me - came in at 3.125% and not much interest in negotiating down. I guess the lenders are probably taking turns to fill their target. Maybe ever week / 2 weeks, someone else has the best offer in town?
I had the same experience with Northpointe, though they were upfront about it. They called me after I filled out the customer rate quote on the site, had a good conversation with the guy, and he straight out asked me if I’m cross shopping with competitors. When I said yes, he said that he will send me docs and would love to earn my business, but “honestly speaking, you are likely to find better options given how crazy things have been the past few weeks”. I appreciated them being up front about it.

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ICMoney
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ICMoney » Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:17 pm

BrandonBogle wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:56 am
nova148 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:49 am
Thanks frankandbeans. Northpointe was not competitive for me - came in at 3.125% and not much interest in negotiating down. I guess the lenders are probably taking turns to fill their target. Maybe ever week / 2 weeks, someone else has the best offer in town?
I had the same experience with Northpointe, though they were upfront about it. They called me after I filled out the customer rate quote on the site, had a good conversation with the guy, and he straight out asked me if I’m cross shopping with competitors. When I said yes, he said that he will send me docs and would love to earn my business, but “honestly speaking, you are likely to find better options given how crazy things have been the past few weeks”. I appreciated them being up front about it.
+1, Northpointe not competitive for me either. Was going to be 3.75 percent for 15-yr no cost refinance, or 2.875 percent 15-year with zero points and $3k in closing costs with appraisal waived. We are already at 3.25 percent 15 year so will wait for a better deal.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:27 pm

BrandonBogle wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:41 pm

Code: Select all

Rate     Points   Breakeven   Cash to close
------   ------   ---------   -------------
3.00%    0                   -$1,351 (credit to me)
2.875%   0.48%    51 months  -$  700 (credit to me)
2.75%    0.85%    45 months  -$  203 (credit to me)
2.625%   1.23%    43 months   $  303
2.5%     1.74%    46 months   $  996
Hmm, new wrinkle. Turns out that if I accept having an escrow, the points are a flat $400 less. In essence, I could end up with 2.625% with $100 in my pocket and no closing costs (though, escrow prepay). While I'm not a fan of escrow to begin with, it's tempting. Have people found that lenders are generally easy to drop the escrow down the road, say 2-6 months from now? I have a 46% LTV, so I hadn't expected to essentially be paying a penalty to waive the escrow.

meckaneck
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by meckaneck » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:58 pm

Locked in a refinance today with American Federal Mortgage. 30 year fixed @ 3%. No points, no origination and $500 lender credit. LTV around 60%. Smooth application process. 45 day lock.

mervinj7
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mervinj7 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:33 pm

BrandonBogle wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:27 pm
BrandonBogle wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:41 pm

Code: Select all

Rate     Points   Breakeven   Cash to close
------   ------   ---------   -------------
3.00%    0                   -$1,351 (credit to me)
2.875%   0.48%    51 months  -$  700 (credit to me)
2.75%    0.85%    45 months  -$  203 (credit to me)
2.625%   1.23%    43 months   $  303
2.5%     1.74%    46 months   $  996
Hmm, new wrinkle. Turns out that if I accept having an escrow, the points are a flat $400 less. In essence, I could end up with 2.625% with $100 in my pocket and no closing costs (though, escrow prepay). While I'm not a fan of escrow to begin with, it's tempting. Have people found that lenders are generally easy to drop the escrow down the road, say 2-6 months from now? I have a 46% LTV, so I hadn't expected to essentially be paying a penalty to waive the escrow.
It's still not clear too me why you have positive points and credit to close. Do you actually have negative points or are the points being rolled into the loan?

db79
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by db79 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:10 pm

In my previous refi's years back I used a lawyer at closing. These days mobile notaries appear to be the trend. I'll be closing at the end of May with AIM and the loan approval doc that I just received is in order without errors. Any concerns going the mobile notary route? Appears most posters in the thread have gone this path.

tigers174
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tigers174 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:33 pm

Closed today on a refinance for our small farm mortgage. Went from 4.25% to 3.25%. Kept it at 30 years, but the mortgage after escrow dropped from $1220 to $1020.

Being a farm we were basically stuck with 1 lender, so I'm happy.
Last edited by tigers174 on Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:33 pm

mervinj7 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:33 pm
BrandonBogle wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:27 pm
BrandonBogle wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:41 pm

Code: Select all

Rate     Points   Breakeven   Cash to close
------   ------   ---------   -------------
3.00%    0                   -$1,351 (credit to me)
2.875%   0.48%    51 months  -$  700 (credit to me)
2.75%    0.85%    45 months  -$  203 (credit to me)
2.625%   1.23%    43 months   $  303
2.5%     1.74%    46 months   $  996
Hmm, new wrinkle. Turns out that if I accept having an escrow, the points are a flat $400 less. In essence, I could end up with 2.625% with $100 in my pocket and no closing costs (though, escrow prepay). While I'm not a fan of escrow to begin with, it's tempting. Have people found that lenders are generally easy to drop the escrow down the road, say 2-6 months from now? I have a 46% LTV, so I hadn't expected to essentially be paying a penalty to waive the escrow.
It's still not clear too me why you have positive points and credit to close. Do you actually have negative points or are the points being rolled into the loan?
This specific mortgage is part of a promo where a third party is giving me a credit after closing. The numbers above are inclusive of that. If it weren’t for the promo, the other lender I applied to is whom I would use. 2.875%, 0 points, no escrow, $1,295 in closing fees, inclusive of all third party fees except appraisal. And my property qualifies for an appraisal waiver.

However, this promo makes the deal I’ve been sharing in the thread more lucrative.

Contango1025
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Contango1025 » Fri May 01, 2020 9:17 am

meckaneck wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:58 pm
Locked in a refinance today with American Federal Mortgage. 30 year fixed @ 3%. No points, no origination and $500 lender credit. LTV around 60%. Smooth application process. 45 day lock.
Wow! :shock: Congrats!

I'm at a 30-year fixed @ 3.875% on my current mortgage and shopping around. Haven't seen anything close to that personally. I'm high balance conforming in NJ looking to refinance my $650K balance (~77LTV) and just got back something for 3.5% from American Federal Mortgage. They are quoting me $500 for appraisal, refundable lock deposit at closing of $750, and their estimate of $3K in title fees. Did you have any other fees (i.e. title, etc.)?

Similar recent experience as others with Northpointe (they were candid and said their rates had gone up and I should hold out for 3.25%).

Better/Loan Depot basically offering my current rate.

If anyone with a similar application gets a good rate, let me know! Something about my profile must not be attractive. Credit is 800+...

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle » Fri May 01, 2020 9:47 am

Contango1025 wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 9:17 am
If anyone with a similar application gets a good rate, let me know! Something about my profile must not be attractive. Credit is 800+...
I just want to note that (based on what you have shared) it is unlikely it is your profile that has something unattractive, but the market risk changing due to regulations put in place for relief to borrowers due to Covid-19 and the sudden high demand for refinances that is making “direct lenders” (ones who don’t keep or service the loans themselves) try to spur the pot a bit to address the market risk and reduce the spike in refis - i.e., flatten the curve on refinance originations.

See the My LenderFi refinance thread for how suddenly such direct lenders are scrambling to carry the loans as they can’t sell the servicing right now and the servicer is on hook to pay who they’ve sold the mortgage during this time.

frankandbeans
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frankandbeans » Fri May 01, 2020 10:46 am

Contango1025 wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 9:17 am
meckaneck wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:58 pm
Locked in a refinance today with American Federal Mortgage. 30 year fixed @ 3%. No points, no origination and $500 lender credit. LTV around 60%. Smooth application process. 45 day lock.
Wow! :shock: Congrats!

I'm at a 30-year fixed @ 3.875% on my current mortgage and shopping around. Haven't seen anything close to that personally. I'm high balance conforming in NJ looking to refinance my $650K balance (~77LTV) and just got back something for 3.5% from American Federal Mortgage. They are quoting me $500 for appraisal, refundable lock deposit at closing of $750, and their estimate of $3K in title fees. Did you have any other fees (i.e. title, etc.)?

Similar recent experience as others with Northpointe (they were candid and said their rates had gone up and I should hold out for 3.25%).

Better/Loan Depot basically offering my current rate.

If anyone with a similar application gets a good rate, let me know! Something about my profile must not be attractive. Credit is 800+...
I think the main reason you're not getting lower rates is that investors have gotten squeamish about loans over the $510k traditional conforming limit (even if the actual limit is higher in your area). There are still some deals, especially with small banks and credit unions, but they're harder to find.

lurgid
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by lurgid » Fri May 01, 2020 11:35 am

Just bought in November and have a 3.625% on $341k (~94% LTV). Would it be possible or worth it to try to refi to 3.25%, which is what I'm pretty much seeing?

frankandbeans
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frankandbeans » Fri May 01, 2020 11:50 am

lurgid wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 11:35 am
Just bought in November and have a 3.625% on $341k (~94% LTV). Would it be possible or worth it to try to refi to 3.25%, which is what I'm pretty much seeing?
I noticed 94 percent LTV. Was it an FHA loan? You’ll still have PMI and rates may be higher given that LTV. I would say it’s only worth it if you can do it with zero costs. The real savings will likely come when you can get to 80 percent LTV, so you can get rid of PMI and qualify for better rates.

lurgid
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by lurgid » Fri May 01, 2020 12:34 pm

frankandbeans wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 11:50 am
lurgid wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 11:35 am
Just bought in November and have a 3.625% on $341k (~94% LTV). Would it be possible or worth it to try to refi to 3.25%, which is what I'm pretty much seeing?
I noticed 94 percent LTV. Was it an FHA loan? You’ll still have PMI and rates may be higher given that LTV. I would say it’s only worth it if you can do it with zero costs. The real savings will likely come when you can get to 80 percent LTV, so you can get rid of PMI and qualify for better rates.
It's a conventional with 5% down. That's why I made sure to make sure to mention the LTV, since I did just purchase pretty recently, with little down.

Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 » Fri May 01, 2020 3:50 pm

I have the following offer from my usual broker that I intend on moving forward with unless anyone else knows of a place I can do better:

303,500 30yr fixed 3.25%

Origination Charges:
Lender Credit: ($1730.50)

Other Charges:
Lenders Title Insurance: $807.50
Title Settle Services: $475.00
Title Closing Letter: $75.00
Title Endorsements: $50.00
Mortgage Recording Fee: $323.00
Daily Interest: $270.20
-----------------------------------------------
Hazard Insurance Reserves: $378.00
Property Tax Reserves: $2823.00

P&I: $1,320.85
Insurance: $63.00
Taxes: $941.00

Total Payment: $2,324.85
Last edited by Jags4186 on Fri May 01, 2020 4:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.

mervinj7
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mervinj7 » Fri May 01, 2020 4:06 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 3:50 pm
I have the following offer from my usual broker that I intend on moving forward with unless anyone else knows of a a place I can do better:

304,000 30yr fixed 3.25%
$1703 lender credit covers all closing costs

It is about $1600 better than what I’m seeing on LenderFi.

I’m currently at 3.625%
The beauty of a no-cost refinance is that you can always move forward. If you find a better deal, worst-case you lose your deposit/appraisal fee. You can even refinance after the first payment if rates continue to drop (unless your lender has a claw-back period).

Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 » Fri May 01, 2020 4:09 pm

mervinj7 wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 4:06 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 3:50 pm
I have the following offer from my usual broker that I intend on moving forward with unless anyone else knows of a a place I can do better:

304,000 30yr fixed 3.25%
$1703 lender credit covers all closing costs

It is about $1600 better than what I’m seeing on LenderFi.

I’m currently at 3.625%
The beauty of a no-cost refinance is that you can always move forward. If you find a better deal, worst-case you lose your deposit/appraisal fee. You can even refinance after the first payment if rates continue to drop (unless your lender has a claw-back period).

I updated my post with the full details. Lender doesn't have a claw back provision but this broker has done my original and now 3 refinances so I would not want to do anything that jeopardizes his fee as every time I get quotes he's always the best and its super easy moving forward. Always shocked when I hear people complain of problems refinancing...Its always taken me no more than 6 or 7 emails back and forth and then signing a million documents when the closer comes to the house.

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warowits
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by warowits » Fri May 01, 2020 4:49 pm

I would like to see the rates available to me but it seems like everyone wants you to apply before they tell you their rates, when I know darn well that 98% of places don't have a competitive rate right now. Is there anywhere other than Northpointe that is competitive, and showing their rates for well qualified buyers without providing tons of personal information and doing a credit pull?

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UpsetRaptor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by UpsetRaptor » Fri May 01, 2020 4:53 pm

warowits wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 4:49 pm
I would like to see the rates available to me but it seems like everyone wants you to apply before they tell you their rates, when I know darn well that 98% of places don't have a competitive rate right now. Is there anywhere other than Northpointe that is competitive, and showing their rates for well qualified buyers without providing tons of personal information and doing a credit pull?
I had good luck with Zillow's mortgage rate page, but I seem to be in the minority.

https://www.zillow.com/mortgage-rates/

SEAworld9
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by SEAworld9 » Fri May 01, 2020 6:46 pm

so kept negotiating after i thought i was done; now have 3.375% with $570 lender credit, appraisal waived, and $2500 credit from amex with better on a 30-year fixed, $632k loan (super conforming).

i sent them a competitor's LE and they matched, and then with the $2500 amex credit it makes it even better (NPI). i'd encourage sending competitive LEs as better came down .5% from what it was showing me as a par rate online, plus the credit to match the loan costs from the competitor.

wootwoot
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by wootwoot » Fri May 01, 2020 6:53 pm

warowits wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 4:49 pm
I would like to see the rates available to me but it seems like everyone wants you to apply before they tell you their rates, when I know darn well that 98% of places don't have a competitive rate right now. Is there anywhere other than Northpointe that is competitive, and showing their rates for well qualified buyers without providing tons of personal information and doing a credit pull?
Costco

dctech
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dctech » Fri May 01, 2020 8:33 pm

I just locked a 30 yr fixed @ 2.875% for $249 in points, no origination fee and waived appraisal. $499k loan with $670k estimated value = 74% LTV. I'll end up paying about $1,200 out of pocket including the title work.

I thought I had missed the 2 day period where I could get below 3% back in early March, but here we are again. I am coming from a 3.375% I just funded in February. The original mortgage was at 4.0% from March last year.

This is through First Mortgage Direct which I found through bankrate. The lenders are changing on these sites (bankrate, nerdwallet, zillow, etc) almost minute to minute so keep trying like I have been for about a month now. I'm guessing (hoping) this will be my final refi on this house, but who knows!

Good Luck out there!

freedom298
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by freedom298 » Sat May 02, 2020 8:16 am

Hi all,

Long time lurker, first time poster. This thread has given me invaluable advice over the last month so I wanted to pay it forward and share my experience to hopefully help others.

Basics:
Pennsylvania. 33 years old in 3rd yr of 30 year fixed mortgage at 4.375%. 780+ credit score. 240k owed on house worth approximately 400k (60% LTV). I was looking to refinance to 15 year. I started pinging firms for quotes two/three weeks ago.

Obtained quotes from Chase, Better, LoanDepot and Northpointe at the recommendation of this board. Unlike many on this board however, I had an extremely poor experience with both Better and Northpointe.

Chase: Offered a 2.625% (2.888% APR) 15 year with 1.4% in points and total closing costs around $7500 including points.

Northpointe: Sent me a loan estimate for 2.5% and total closing costs around 5k. Consistently followed up with the loan officer in an attempt to lock but was unable to. He then sent me an email that because I had filled out an application online (after he hadn't responded to me for close to a week) that I would need to go through that agent. The other agent also subsequently never responded. In hindsight it worked out as I'm not super confident they would have been able to close anyways but obviously others have had success. Plus, they did give me a loan estimate sheet which we'll get to later.

Better.com: 2.75% (3.01% APR) and close to $8000 in points/closing costs. It was not very competitive even factoring in the AMEX $2500 back. The kicker is when I sent them Northpointe's loan estimate to see if they could honor their "price match guarantee" they actually denied my loan application the following day which had been open for two weeks. They claimed because of COVID they were unable to due appraisals in my area despite 60% LTV and getting an appraisal waiver from the other three companies.

Loan Depot: 2.875% and $3000 in closing costs. The loan officer was great and recommended I not lock as he was confident I'd be able to get 2.75% by closing.

I began to move forward with Loan Depot, but I decided to send Northpointe's quote to Chase as a hail mary to see if they wanted to match. The Chase loan officer said he was forwarding to their "pricing exception team". I honestly wasn't expecting much to come out of it until I got the below offer the following day.

Chase updated offer: 15 yr 2.5% (2.543% APR) with a $650 lender credit. Total closing costs $3,100 but I'll get an additional $750 credit through my employer with brings it down to around $2200. Will save close to $150,000 in interest over the life of the loan. I locked the same day and am still in the process of closing with them.

So this is just one man's experience but I wanted to share since I leveraged a lot of the advice and lenders in this thread. Shop for multiple quotes, ask lenders (even very large ones) if they'll match, and keep working and you should hopefully be able to secure a good offer in these uncertain times. Good luck out there.

kski74
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kski74 » Sat May 02, 2020 2:24 pm

dctech wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 8:33 pm
I just locked a 30 yr fixed @ 2.875% for $249 in points, no origination fee and waived appraisal. $499k loan with $670k estimated value = 74% LTV. I'll end up paying about $1,200 out of pocket including the title work.

I thought I had missed the 2 day period where I could get below 3% back in early March, but here we are again. I am coming from a 3.375% I just funded in February. The original mortgage was at 4.0% from March last year.

This is through First Mortgage Direct which I found through bankrate. The lenders are changing on these sites (bankrate, nerdwallet, zillow, etc) almost minute to minute so keep trying like I have been for about a month now. I'm guessing (hoping) this will be my final refi on this house, but who knows!

Good Luck out there!
Nice one!

We locked with Northpointe two weeks ago at 3.125% with zero closing costs on a very similar loan amount and LTV. A few lenders matched it including Quicken Loans with the additional $2,500 AmEx incentive. However, when we told Quicken Loan to proceed with the lock, they announced that they weren't doing locks company wide and would only lock a rate once it's gone through underwriting and was ready for closing. We decided to proceed with Northpointe ($400 deposit) and also proceed with the QuickenLoan application in parallel in case rates were the same or more favorable than Northpointe in a few weeks. If Quicken can match or beat Northpointe in a few weeks, we lose the $400 deposit, but gain the $2,500 AmEx incentive.

However, we got a call from QuickenLoan this week telling us that we needed to drop the Northpointe application if we wanted to continue with them and sign some paperwork to that effect. I told them that was ridiculous and would have gone with them outright on their match if it wasn't for the company wide no-lock policy. They are now accepting locks again and are willing to lock us at 3.25%. I told them if they can do 3.125% as they originally offered to match, they'd have my business. Waiting game.

wootwoot
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by wootwoot » Sat May 02, 2020 7:27 pm

dctech wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 8:33 pm
I just locked a 30 yr fixed @ 2.875% for $249 in points, no origination fee and waived appraisal. $499k loan with $670k estimated value = 74% LTV. I'll end up paying about $1,200 out of pocket including the title work.

I thought I had missed the 2 day period where I could get below 3% back in early March, but here we are again. I am coming from a 3.375% I just funded in February. The original mortgage was at 4.0% from March last year.

This is through First Mortgage Direct which I found through bankrate. The lenders are changing on these sites (bankrate, nerdwallet, zillow, etc) almost minute to minute so keep trying like I have been for about a month now. I'm guessing (hoping) this will be my final refi on this house, but who knows!

Good Luck out there!
15 year?

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