Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

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bigtex
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Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by bigtex » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:41 pm

My manager is interviewing candidates before job has been posted. I am a perfect fit for the job that is supposed to be posted, but I don't even have the ability to apply. What would the policy be on something like this and is there any legal action I can take? Or does it just mean my manager obviously doesn't think I'm a fit for the job, and too bad for me? This is a fortune 500 megacorp if that makes a difference. I just don't know what the policies would be surrounding this type of thing, or if I should take any sort of action.

02nz
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by 02nz » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:44 pm

Why not approach your manager with your interest? No there’s almost certainly no recourse as this is private sector.

HomeStretch
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by HomeStretch » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:47 pm

+1 on approaching your manager directly. After that, let HR know you are interested in being included in the candidate pool that your manager is currently interviewing.

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TxAg
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by TxAg » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:48 pm

Take legal action? Seriously?

Maybe your attitude is a problem.

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bigtex
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by bigtex » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:55 pm

TxAg wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:48 pm
Take legal action? Seriously?

Maybe your attitude is a problem.
I guess I just thought there were some labor laws or something. My bad.

TN_Boy
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by TN_Boy » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:57 pm

bigtex wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:41 pm
My manager is interviewing candidates before job has been posted. I am a perfect fit for the job that is supposed to be posted, but I don't even have the ability to apply. What would the policy be on something like this and is there any legal action I can take? Or does it just mean my manager obviously doesn't think I'm a fit for the job, and too bad for me? This is a fortune 500 megacorp if that makes a difference. I just don't know what the policies would be surrounding this type of thing, or if I should take any sort of action.
Well, sure I'd tell the manager I was interested. And -- handled correctly -- this might be a great opportunity to get some good feedback on what the manager thinks are your strong and weak points (though ideally your regular reviews already do that. What have you learned from your review process so far?).

For all but very senior positions (those too, but it is harder to find the right person) I think most megacorps like to promote from within, so yeah, your manager may not think you are as good a fit as you think you are.

Other possibilities are that manager doesn't think you (or anyone else internally ...?) would be interested, or even that the team is really busy and moving people around would impact projects.

I don't quite follow the thoughts around legal action and such. Barring various types of explicit discrimination, the hiring managers get to decide who is qualified for a job.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by KyleAAA » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:04 pm

Why can't you just ask your manager about it? Applying for a job is by far the least desireable way to go about it.

To directly answer your question, in the private sector there is no law saying jobs must be posted internally unless there is some sort of contract in place requiring it (i.e. a union contract) or it is an explicit HR policy in the handbook (i.e. not so much a legal issue but policies must be enforced consistently or they open themselves to a lawsuit). For public sector employees I believe there are slightly different rules.
Last edited by KyleAAA on Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by Strayshot » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:04 pm

If a job hasn’t been posted and people haven’t applied, your manager isn’t interviewing anyone. Lots of time if a manager knows a position will be available, they will start talking to potential applicants and there is nothing wrong with doing so to widen the potential candidate pool.

If the manager isn’t talking to you, than yes there is a good chance you aren’t up for consideration. Doesn’t mean you cant apply when the job shows up, and maybe you will or won’t get an interview, but you probably aren’t on the short list.

Federal labor laws and legal elements of hiring and candidate selection are really skewed towards lower skilled jobs, and the unions have taken a lot of that to an extreme. When it comes to high skill employment, beyond “following the process” for legal purposes it really does come down to the hiring manager and what they decide.

You can’t say “well I hired Jane because she was green and joe was orange”, but you can say “I hired Jane because she knew (insert skill/tool here) and joe didn’t have that particular skill so Jane had an edge” and in highly skilled jobs coming up with a particular skill/tool to justify a hire is easy and legally defensible. Now maybe the “real” reason was that Jane is green, or Jane is 34 and joe is 67 and ageism is at play, or Jane went to the same school as the manager, or Jane is the spouse of the hiring managers bosses best friend, but that part won’t ever come up and only a fool hiring manager would allow any of those things into the picture.

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8foot7
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by 8foot7 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:07 pm

If you think initiating legal action against your current manager is going to get you an interview that results in your hire, well, I don’t even know what to say.

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cashboy
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by cashboy » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:11 pm

life is not fair; business less so... :(

do not take it personal.

consider, your manager could post the job internally and externally and then only consider external candidates. having worked at several fortune 500 megacorps i have seen it all.

:annoyed

i agree with the other posters; approach your manager 'in a very nice way' and mention your interest in the position - along with your desire to make a larger contribution.

good luck!

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by cbr shadow » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:14 pm

8foot7 wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:07 pm
If you think initiating legal action against your current manager is going to get you an interview that results in your hire, well, I don’t even know what to say.
I'm not sure why people want to pile on about this - it's already been addressed and he responded to the feedback. Sometimes I think responses on here are just people being grumpy rather than helpful. This is especially true since you literally posted to say that you don't know what to say.

To OP, I agree that your best bet is having a discussion with your manager about you being a fit for this position. You will almost certainly learn something from that conversation; what you need to do to improve, or you'll learn that your current place of employment is limiting you so maybe it's time to look for a new opportunity.

yohac
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by yohac » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:17 pm

This happens all the time. The manager picks someone on the golf course, then the posting is just an HR formaility. I should have taken up golf.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by UpperNwGuy » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:21 pm

I've been on both sides of this situation. I've been the in-house employee who was passed over, and I've been the manager who passed over in-house candidates.

If your manager has not talked to you, you are not on his short list. He clearly wants fresh blood and is talking to people he wants to apply. You either need to accept the situation gracefully, or you need to move on to a different company or to a different part of the company.

edge
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by edge » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:23 pm

If you are reacting this way you might be toxic.

Relying on laws and policies like this is not how the world turns.
bigtex wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:55 pm
TxAg wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:48 pm
Take legal action? Seriously?

Maybe your attitude is a problem.
I guess I just thought there were some labor laws or something. My bad.

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TxAg
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by TxAg » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:24 pm

bigtex wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:55 pm
TxAg wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:48 pm
Take legal action? Seriously?

Maybe your attitude is a problem.
I guess I just thought there were some labor laws or something. My bad.
10-4


I agree with others saying speak to your manager and keep a positive attitude.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by Prahasaurus » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:45 pm

bigtex wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:55 pm
TxAg wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:48 pm
Take legal action? Seriously?

Maybe your attitude is a problem.
I guess I just thought there were some labor laws or something. My bad.
There probably are, but you'll need to be living and working in Europe.
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celia
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by celia » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:03 pm

bigtex wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:41 pm
I am a perfect fit for the job that is supposed to be posted, but I don't even have the ability to apply.
We don't know much about you except what you decide to post, so don't take this personally. Possibly, you easily meet the minimum requirements to apply (education, major, related work experience) but there are usually also other qualities that are desired that can't be measured/quantified. Think of communication style, organized, creative, leadership, thinking-outside-the-box, etc. Sometimes the hiring person isn't even conscious of what they are looking for. Many times they are even looking for someone who is like the person who was in that position previously. But their view of finding someone like "Joe" might not be anything like your version of another "Joe".

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8foot7
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by 8foot7 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:07 pm

cbr shadow wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:14 pm
8foot7 wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:07 pm
If you think initiating legal action against your current manager is going to get you an interview that results in your hire, well, I don’t even know what to say.
I'm not sure why people want to pile on about this - it's already been addressed and he responded to the feedback. Sometimes I think responses on here are just people being grumpy rather than helpful. This is especially true since you literally posted to say that you don't know what to say.
Frankly the fact that the OP even thought enough of the possibility to mention it on a message board as an option is really concerning. But I admit I didn’t see his initial reply about it. But in my defense I never guaranteed I’d read everything before answering. Hopefully all of our posts have convinced OP that suing your current employer with the intent of furthering one’s career is suboptimal.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by MtnTraveler » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:17 pm

I agree with everyone who is saying positively approach your manager about this. Just say you are interested and would like to be considered. Most of the time I interview before the posting goes live because I've gotten resumes through some channel and I know I will have open reqs at some point and the resume is really strong. I will call these people, say that I received their resume, and I'd really like to talk with them about upcoming reqs. If the "interview" goes great that lights a fire under me to get the req opened as fast as possible so the person can formally apply. Once the req is opened I'm still required to interview all qualified candidates and I may find a great one internally but these are usually positions that I know I'm going to have trouble finding qualified candidates internally.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by mighty72 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:34 pm

I was a manager once and my manager & I would start reaching out to potential candidates when we knew a new position was coming. We had to fill the position before end of quarter or risk losing it if financials or priorities changed. The potential candidates included people we worked with in the past and referrals from other folks in our company. There was times that someone we knew would reach out and if we thought he/she was a great fit, we would request to create a position for them. This is common practice, not a lawyer so can't say anything about legality.
Honestly, I think either your manager thinks that you are not qualified for the role or he thinks that you are not interested. You would not know till you talk to him. I would think that going to HR or applying without talking to the manager would actually put you at a disadvantage.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by eldinerocheapo » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:21 pm

Probably everyone in the corporate world has seen this at some point in their career. This tells me your manager doesn't think anyone in your office is qualified, and he doesn't care if you know about it. I'd dust off my resume and shop around because going over his head with this is the "kiss of death", even if corporate says you can call them with actions you perceive as unethical. They will contact your office and tell them to deal with you by making your work life so miserable, you'll want to quit.
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by Trader Joe » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:29 pm

bigtex wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:41 pm
My manager is interviewing candidates before job has been posted. I am a perfect fit for the job that is supposed to be posted, but I don't even have the ability to apply. What would the policy be on something like this and is there any legal action I can take? Or does it just mean my manager obviously doesn't think I'm a fit for the job, and too bad for me? This is a fortune 500 megacorp if that makes a difference. I just don't know what the policies would be surrounding this type of thing, or if I should take any sort of action.
You should communicate directly with your manager on this issue.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by Watty » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:09 pm

One thing to consider is that promoting an internal candidate will then require that the management to figure out how to fill your old position. If they promote someone lower to fill your position then they would also need to fill their position. It may be short sighted but I have seen managers that preferred to hire external candidates just to reduce this domino effect. Of course when people leave because of the lack of promotions they need to fill that position anyway but that manager may have moved on by then.

Anyway, when you talk to the manager about the position it would be good to suggest a way that it would be easy to fill your current position. A pitfall of that is if there are future layoffs then they may lay you off because they know how to cover your work.
bigtex wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:55 pm
TxAg wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:48 pm
Take legal action? Seriously?

Maybe your attitude is a problem.
I guess I just thought there were some labor laws or something. My bad.
If you are a member of a protected class there may very well be some laws that would apply but it is exceedingly difficult to prove discrimination and making a claim like that could impact your career.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by 123 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:00 pm

If a manager fills a vacancy with an external hire he only has that one position to direct a higher level of management attention to. If a manager fills a vacancy with an internal hire from his own group he has TWO slots to direct a higher level of management attention to since the internal hire/promotion creates another vacancy.
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by stimulacra » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:41 pm

Raise your hand and throw you hat into the ring. Your manager isn't a mind reader. They probably only think about your career progress / role satisfaction 15 minutes a year if you're lucky.

Also what is your personal brand or reputation within the department or organization? Are you viewed as a high-potential employee? A satisfactory employee? Or a marginal one? Do you jump at challenging assignments or opportunities or do you wait for someone to assign you a task?

Your initial comments indicate you haven't quite mastered the nuance or soft skills that a lot of managerial or senior roles in a megacorp would consider table stakes.

Lastly backfilling a role due to a promotion is usually harder than finding an external hire. Usually it creates a mini re-org in a department. It would be easier in most cases to find an outside candidate to slot in.

Good luck and try to maneuver away from the mindset that you are entitled to every promotion or opportunity that becomes available.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by evblazer » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:04 am

It likely isn’t even following the policies of your company but it will happen anyways. Unless you are in a union it probably isn’t safe to fight it. You can only make your case maybe getting your own interview in there before it is posted.

People often find out about the new role coming up and the manager may want to talk to them while they have their interest so they don’t lose a potential great candidate or any number of other scenarios good or bad.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by anhonymous » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:24 am

Agree talk to your manager about your interest in the role. Also ask if he would consider you as a fit and what his hiring process may be. Not sure how you are convinced he is interviewing if the job is not posted? He may be doing informational. I also know situations where they have to consider o/s candidate but they already have someone internal in mind. Therefore asking your manager is your best bet.

Good luck.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by reason-logic » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:36 am

As a former CEO who hired and promoted a lot of people, when your first question is legal action, I can see why your manager would have no interest in you.

Try to put the company’s interest before your own, that is when you deserve to be considered.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by MikeG62 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:40 am

02nz wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:44 pm
Why not approach your manager with your interest?
^This.
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by mptfan » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:44 am

bigtex wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:41 pm
What would the policy be on something like this and is there any legal action I can take?
Lol, are you serious? The answer is there is no legal action that you can take because no laws were broken.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by typical.investor » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:06 am

bigtex wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:55 pm
TxAg wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:48 pm
Take legal action? Seriously?

Maybe your attitude is a problem.
I guess I just thought there were some labor laws or something. My bad.
If you are a good fit, it’s likely the the manager is poor and wants to cover their position by bringing in someone who they know will support them. Being a good employees doesn’t always work in your favor. It’s what the boss wants that counts.

Start to look elsewhere.
Last edited by typical.investor on Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rich in Michigan
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by Rich in Michigan » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:07 am

Not to beat a dead horse but approach your manager directly. I always welcomed being approached by direct reports for positions of advancement because it showed me that they had the "proactive/I want the job" quality that most managers admire. Show and tell them why you deserve the job.
Desperately wanting a job is not a qualification; make them see that you are the right choice.

Even if you don't get the job you are now on the radar for other potential things. I mean, they should already know about your career desires if they have done a proper annual discussion with you but that is another matter.

The fact is that they have already likely considered everyone they currently have for the position and despite your viewpoint that you are a perfect fit, they have other ideas about what they want. It doesn't make it wrong or right, it is just the way it is. I always told people that they were interviewing for a job every time they had a chance to impress someone (their manager, other managers, high level people, etc) through the day to day performance in their job. By the time you "throw your hat in the ring" there is little additional that you can do to impress them other than have unique strategies for the position that they have not thought of. Again, it doesn't make their assessment of you right or wrong but it does make it what it is.

I once applied for a job (I was already a manager but applied for a slightly higher lateralish position) and was not even interviewed. Two years later I was interviewed but passed over for another position. Six months later I was promoted to a Director position that was two steps above any of those other positions. So you never know. Maybe they have other things in mind for you. But you have to establish the dialogue.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by wilked » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:13 am

I would have a truthful conversation with your manager. Of course the only way to know it’s truthful is to have him under oath, so have your lawyer issue a summons and get him on the stand before you have a conversation about your career aspirations / interests.



Or....just add it as an agenda item to your next 1:1 as part of your overall personal development plan ;-)

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:15 am

Watty wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:09 pm
One thing to consider is that promoting an internal candidate will then require that the management to figure out how to fill your old position. If they promote someone lower to fill your position then they would also need to fill their position. It may be short sighted but I have seen managers that preferred to hire external candidates just to reduce this domino effect. Of course when people leave because of the lack of promotions they need to fill that position anyway but that manager may have moved on by then.
And this is why, contrary to defensive career planning, it is important to be mindful of succession planning and have someone on your team who is able to take over your job. Many promotions have been blocked because of the "backfill" problem.

OP, why not ask your manager what gaps he/she sees that made you not a suitable candidate? Take the feedback with an open mind. Grow from it.
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by toomuchRE » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:37 pm

bigtex wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:41 pm
My manager is interviewing candidates before job has been posted. I am a perfect fit for the job that is supposed to be posted, but I don't even have the ability to apply. What would the policy be on something like this and is there any legal action I can take? Or does it just mean my manager obviously doesn't think I'm a fit for the job, and too bad for me? This is a fortune 500 megacorp if that makes a difference. I just don't know what the policies would be surrounding this type of thing, or if I should take any sort of action.
You think you are a perfect fit, which is doubtful because the manager would have promoted you if that was true.. Looks like the manager has figured you out and the next action is to let you go...

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by downshiftme » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:29 pm

Some companies do have internal rules about posting openings and interviewing internal candidates. If yours does, then HR may help advocate for you and get your manager in trouble. On the other hand, getting your manager in trouble is not likely to help your chances of being selected for the job.
is there any legal action I can take?
Going outside and trying to bring legal action will effectively end your career. Most employers will immediately begin managing you out with bad reviews, performance improvement plans, or similar documentation to "prove" poor performance and terminate you as soon as practical.

Having a private and reasonable talk with your manager is the only possible way to a positive outcome here. Perhaps the manager is unaware of your interest or perhaps you are unaware of the manager's actual intentions for the position.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by JBTX » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:55 pm

bigtex wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:55 pm
TxAg wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:48 pm
Take legal action? Seriously?

Maybe your attitude is a problem.
I guess I just thought there were some labor laws or something. My bad.
Most larger companies have internal policies requiring positions be posted. But that is to try to keep the process fair and transparent and avoid discrimination lawsuits. There are no laws requiring these positions be posted or prohibiting employers from looking externally.

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by galving » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:52 am

As others have mentioned, I think its a smart move to sit down with your manager and inquire about the position.
Done correctly, you signal your openness to learn, growth, and develop. Ask open ended questions, about the role and what the manager wants/needs for the successful candidate. Its been my experience, that conversations such as this sometimes uncover new and better possibilities other than this 'perfect' job.

You also probably want to understand your motivations for wanting this new position, and be able to clearly explain them/how they are well aligned with the company's/division's/manager's priorities.

As a manager, "I'll always ask why do you want this position?". The fastest way to get yourself crossed off the list is "I want a day job. . ." or any other very tactical thing that is exclusively employee centric. Better answers are I want to grow, learn, contribute, drive change, lead, develop. . .

Good luck!

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by TN_Boy » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:57 am

galving wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:52 am
As others have mentioned, I think its a smart move to sit down with your manager and inquire about the position.
Done correctly, you signal your openness to learn, growth, and develop. Ask open ended questions, about the role and what the manager wants/needs for the successful candidate. Its been my experience, that conversations such as this sometimes uncover new and better possibilities other than this 'perfect' job.

You also probably want to understand your motivations for wanting this new position, and be able to clearly explain them/how they are well aligned with the company's/division's/manager's priorities.

As a manager, "I'll always ask why do you want this position?". The fastest way to get yourself crossed off the list is "I want a day job. . ." or any other very tactical thing that is exclusively employee centric. Better answers are I want to grow, learn, contribute, drive change, lead, develop. . .

Good luck!
I'll poke at this one more time, since the non-response puzzled me (or maybe the OP has gone away for good).

Bigtex,

Surely you have had performance reviews. What did those reviews say about your strengths and weaknesses, what needs to happen for you to move up, etc? If your reviews are not covering that sort of information, then you should strive to improve the content of your reviews. If you have been getting such feedback, what did it say about your skills versus the requirements for the job in question?

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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by evblazer » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:37 pm

JBTX wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:55 pm
bigtex wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:55 pm
TxAg wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:48 pm
Take legal action? Seriously?

Maybe your attitude is a problem.
I guess I just thought there were some labor laws or something. My bad.
Most larger companies have internal policies requiring positions be posted. But that is to try to keep the process fair and transparent and avoid discrimination lawsuits. There are no laws requiring these positions be posted or prohibiting employers from looking externally.
If that is their internal policy and they are a federal contractor it may pose problems during a routine audit to not follow their policy.

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ClevrChico
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by ClevrChico » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:26 pm

If the company wants you to apply for a job opening, they will let you know. As in, "This isn't a job offer, but we strongly encourage your to apply for position X." Otherwise, I expect the the success rate to be near zero.

Companies also tend to favor external candidates over internal candidates, no matter how good they are. :confused

If you want a different position, it's best to apply at other companies.

wilked
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by wilked » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:56 am

OP, do you have regular 1:1 meetings with your manager where you talk personal development and career goals?

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bigtex
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by bigtex » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:24 am

wilked wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:56 am
OP, do you have regular 1:1 meetings with your manager where you talk personal development and career goals?
Yes they are scheduled, but he always cancels them because he is too busy.

Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:30 am

bigtex wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:24 am
wilked wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:56 am
OP, do you have regular 1:1 meetings with your manager where you talk personal development and career goals?
Yes they are scheduled, but he always cancels them because he is too busy.
He’s too busy to attend scheduled meetings with you, but not too busy to attend interviews with external candidates. You should start feeling the waters outside of your employer, not saying to leave but you should explore external opportunities.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

wilked
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by wilked » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:16 am

bigtex wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:24 am
wilked wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:56 am
OP, do you have regular 1:1 meetings with your manager where you talk personal development and career goals?
Yes they are scheduled, but he always cancels them because he is too busy.
Here's a suggestion - set an agenda for your next one. He will be much less likely to cancel when there is an agenda to cover. Most don't set agendas for their 1:1s which is a mistake. It will also allow him to prepare. One agenda item should be "Discuss opening for Manager of XXXX".

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:22 am

wilked wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:16 am
bigtex wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:24 am
wilked wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:56 am
OP, do you have regular 1:1 meetings with your manager where you talk personal development and career goals?
Yes they are scheduled, but he always cancels them because he is too busy.
Here's a suggestion - set an agenda for your next one. He will be much less likely to cancel when there is an agenda to cover. Most don't set agendas for their 1:1s which is a mistake. It will also allow him to prepare. One agenda item should be "Discuss opening for Manager of XXXX".
+1. Big time. Busy people don’t have time for no-agenda meetings.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

KyleAAA
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by KyleAAA » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:55 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:22 am
wilked wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:16 am
bigtex wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:24 am
wilked wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:56 am
OP, do you have regular 1:1 meetings with your manager where you talk personal development and career goals?
Yes they are scheduled, but he always cancels them because he is too busy.
Here's a suggestion - set an agenda for your next one. He will be much less likely to cancel when there is an agenda to cover. Most don't set agendas for their 1:1s which is a mistake. It will also allow him to prepare. One agenda item should be "Discuss opening for Manager of XXXX".
+1. Big time. Busy people don’t have time for no-agenda meetings.
While I agree it's best practice to set an agenda in advance for 1-on-1s, it's definitely WORST practice to repeatedly cancel 1-on-1s with your direct reports. OP should definitely take the bull by the horns here. Based on this information, it's entirely possible the manager has no idea OP is even interested.

rich126
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by rich126 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:10 pm

Hiring and promoting people involves a lot of tough decisions and also dealing with personalities. If you promote one person from a team, how will the others react? If you bring in a person from the outside, how will the dynamics of a successful team change? Etc.

I know some here will say "tough luck" or "just get over it" to someone passed over for a promotion but a strong manager has to consider everything. If you are in a competitive environment for jobs, you can't simply afford to lose several people since interviewing, hiring, and training people (even if it is just to know how your company does things) is a time consuming and expensive process.

Many years ago a manager was trying to figure out how to fill a position and his solution was to split the team into 3 teams and has 3 team leaders since that way the person could still do technical work and no one person really wanted to be a full time manager. Upper management overruled him and instead one guy got stuck with doing it full time and things didn't work out and people started jumping ship.

I'm fortunate to be in a technical area with a clearance so the jobs are plenty but the applicants are scarce. Now if you have more qualified applicants than jobs that could be another story but I think really successful managers try to do things the right way and consider a number of factors.

I do find the legal question weird but hey we all do stupid things at times.

Former Usher
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by Former Usher » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:40 am

rich126 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:10 pm
I do find the legal question weird but hey we all do stupid things at times.
It's worthing noting that the OP didn't even do anything stupid, but asked for advice prior to doing anything.

Outside of a fascinating course about teachers and the law, I didn't learn anything about employment law in college. Some of it isn't obvious at all.
For example, employers routinely discourage employees discussing their salaries, yet such discussions among non-management employees are protected by law.

In this case there doesn't seem to be a legal angle, and the best initial course of action is to simply express an interest in the position to the manager.

sd323232
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Re: Manager is Interviewing Candidates (External) before Job is posted

Post by sd323232 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:51 am

TxAg wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:48 pm
Take legal action? Seriously?

Maybe your attitude is a problem.
I feel bad for the manager already, poor guy doesnt know what is waiting him.

OP, considering legal action here is beyond ridiculous. Your attitude towards people you working with is damaging. Even if you qualify for job all across, why would they offer job to someone who is willing to take legal action so easy. Imagine yourself in leadership role, you gonna sue each time things are not going your way?

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