Anyone retire in their 30s?

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AlohaJoe
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by AlohaJoe » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:54 am

terran wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:13 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:18 pm
It depends on several factors, but if you're as disenchanted with your career as you seem to be, I'd say that a one or two year long sabbatical might be a good idea. Yes, with 2% withdrawals covering your essential spending, history says that you would be fine to retire now. However, Paula Pant, one of the key figures in the FIRE community, has personally met hundreds of people who have FIREd, most of them around your age, yet only knows one who literally retired (i.e. stopped earning any income at all beyond portfolio withdrawals). People in their 30s almost universally seem to feel the strong need to do something productive, and that 'something' almost invariably turns into an income of some sort. But if you wanted to go do pro bono work for a charity for the rest of your life, you could.
This is a common trope in the early retirement community, but I think there's some serious selection bias going on. How many happily retired people who have no interest in working or starting businesses are going on Paula Pant's podcast or walking up to her at conferences? The early retirees who make themselves visible are starting businesses, etc. We have no idea what the early retirees who don't make themselves visible are up to.
I was going to post a similar reply about selection bias. I am early retired in my 40s. I live in Southeast Asia and I am acquainted with a fair number of people younger than me (i.e. in their 30s) who have no desire or plans to earn an income. Probably over 2 dozen people. Maybe more, I've never really sat down and counted. A half dozen or so who were part of a successful tech company IPO a few years ago. One of them just updated Facebook with pictures the latest stop on their current 6-month roadtrip around Europe with their 2 young sons. Any number of "rich kids" (i.e. their parents were very successful in business) who don't do anything except go on vacations every month & post pictures of the latest trendy restaurant every night. Trophy wives & mistresses who are at the pool every day while the nanny looks after the kids. A retired model or two who gave a half-hearted effort at post-modelling entrepreneurialism before throwing in the towel. Two or three burned out ex-lawyers who hit partner young, divorced, and I guess decided moving to Southeast Asia was the next step in their life.

Not to mention any number of regular old stay-at-home parents. (I guess raising kids is "productive" but certainly doesn't turn into an income of any sort.)

One friend is big into climbing and tells that "dirtbag climbers" are a pretty well-known thing. People who just spend their entire lives doing nothing but climbing. Another friend is big into surfing and tells me "dirtbag surfer" is a thing, too. All those US government statistics about millions of young men becoming detached from the work force. Japan has their generation of NEETs, parasite singles, and hikikomori.

I'm pretty none of the people I talked about above have any idea what FIRE even is. Most people don't call themselves "retired" because there's a weird social -- I don't even know what to call it -- attached to the word. All you have to do is peruse FIRE forums and you'll see almost daily posts from people asking "What do you tell people you do once you FIRE?" and the overwhelming majority of people suggest flat-out lying to any one (even family) who isn't your spouse. "I tell my parents I do consulting now." "I tell people I'm an investment manager." "I tell my neighbors I work from home."

surfstar
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by surfstar » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:57 am

Trader Joe wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:11 pm
Nathan Drake wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:11 pm
Trader Joe wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:05 pm
Nathan Drake wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:04 pm
This place is extremely conservative it seems, financially. But I was curious if anyone had just called it quits from the corporate grind much younger than normal? In my 20s, I was very motivated and engaged to learn as much as I could at my career. Now, moving into management the environment has become a bit of a pressure cooker and the just just feels like going through the motions.

There's no big benefit for working more, either...Raises are pretty standard, promotions few and far between. There's nothing to learn other than the peculiarities of a given project (which aren't very interesting). The job mainly boils down to leading projects and mentoring others to accomplish work with more demanding schedules and budgets. I spend a lot of time at work, and what little free time I have is essentially in recovery mode from the stressors of the week. The non-stop barrage of emails, workers asking for help, and meetings has made me feel a bit burned out with a state of mind that is cluttered and constantly distracted with the day-to-day of corporate life that makes emergencies out of every situation. Going into my career, I was a pretty relaxed person, but now it has caused a tremendous amount of stress and anxiety which I feel is chipping away at my health.

I just don't really see any point after you've saved enough. No, I don't have millions saved up, but my living expenses are modest. What if you had saved up enough in your 30s such that a 2% SWR covered basic living expenses, and up to a 4% could be used for discretionary spending?

Anyone have similar thoughts to my own after working at a megacorp for so long? I honestly don't know how the people with 30+ years of experience do it.
Not me. I love to work. New money is no longer needed.
What do you love about your work? I think this has to be the exception
I love everything about my work. I can guarantee you that I am not an exception.
Really?
Donate all of your income, beyond your standard living expenses. Work for free. Put your money where your mouth is.
[you ARE an exception - realize that, and be happy about it]

lostdog
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by lostdog » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:11 am

WoodSpinner wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:34 pm
OP,

Have you visited the Mr. Money Mustache forum? You might find more kindred spirits and lot’s of practical advice.

WoodSpinner
+1
Global Market Cap Equity/1 Year Cash/Bonds || 25x Expenses

lostdog
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by lostdog » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:14 am

I'm retired. I spend a lot of time with physical fitness, I ride my bike to the gym everyday, mental fitness, meditation, currently learning Java script, spending time with family and friends, biking, walking and mental health excercises.
Global Market Cap Equity/1 Year Cash/Bonds || 25x Expenses

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vitaflo
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by vitaflo » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:25 am

Cheez-It Guy wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:09 am
I’m 35, and reading the original post was a bit like looking in the mirror, to be honest. I’ve been working for the same company in a variety of jobs since graduation 13 years ago. I like most elements of my work (technical role), but it has grown to be too much, and it’s not fun anymore. It never stops, and there is no catching up and no one to whom to delegate. It’s a really crappy feeling to both start and finish every day in the hole. Some of the older set here may not fully understand how oppressive the “always on, always connected” conditions of the modern workplace can be. There is no end of the day for a salaried worker. A constant barrage of E-Mails, phone calls, texts, and meeting invites. Colleagues around the world so that E-Mails are sent from all time zones at all times of day and night. Open office floor plan creates the most distracting workplace possible.
If you have "enough" then you don't need to put up with all this. There's nobody making you do this but yourself.

That said, you've worked for the same company your entire career. There are tons of companies who are not like this. You and the OP sound like you need a change of scenery. Perhaps it's retirement or perhaps it's just finding a company more in line with your values.

I find it interesting the people complaining about the soul crushing nature of work, only to find out they've been in the same corporation forever, never trying to work for a different company. And I don't mean a different mega-corp. Small businesses, non-profits, startups, etc are all places that will have a totally different culture perhaps more in line with what you want. Become a contractor if you really want to change it up and have full control.

I think for most people with a career it's the culture that's the issue, not the work. Nobody is forcing you to work at the company you're at, and nobody is forcing you into a red-taped overworked mega-corp bureaucracy. You can always look for other options, especially if you already have a lot saved. You can be picky.

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willthrill81
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by willthrill81 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:34 am

terran wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:13 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:18 pm
It depends on several factors, but if you're as disenchanted with your career as you seem to be, I'd say that a one or two year long sabbatical might be a good idea. Yes, with 2% withdrawals covering your essential spending, history says that you would be fine to retire now. However, Paula Pant, one of the key figures in the FIRE community, has personally met hundreds of people who have FIREd, most of them around your age, yet only knows one who literally retired (i.e. stopped earning any income at all beyond portfolio withdrawals). People in their 30s almost universally seem to feel the strong need to do something productive, and that 'something' almost invariably turns into an income of some sort. But if you wanted to go do pro bono work for a charity for the rest of your life, you could.
This is a common trope in the early retirement community, but I think there's some serious selection bias going on. How many happily retired people who have no interest in working or starting businesses are going on Paula Pant's podcast or walking up to her at conferences? The early retirees who make themselves visible are starting businesses, etc. We have no idea what the early retirees who don't make themselves visible are up to.
That's certainly possible, but in the absence of better data, it may be the best we have.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by Cheez-It Guy » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:41 am

^^That’s true. I’m not looking for sympathy, but rather expressing solidarity. I didn’t hate my job for 13 years, and I don’t hate it now — just parts of it. Some of you may be very lucky and have found the ideal company and / or job for you, and that’s great, but I think most jobs are going to have their share of annoyances and stresses. Plenty of people have left my company and come back, so the grass isn’t always greener. I have difficulty imagining how working would ever be less stressful than not working. I wouldn’t just sit around. There are tons of things I’d rather do than work to support the consumer economy. The pressure to work after you have enough saved seems mainly the result of societal expectations, or adjustments in one’s standards of living. At some point, it’s enough. I’m a minimalist and could stand to get rid of some of what I already have.

Changing companies is a big hassle too, and may involve a disruptive relocation. I feel like I know what I can expect in my current job and can tough it out long enough to quit and then be in full control of my time. Plus, 15-year service award and an extra week of vacation. . .

ThankYouJack
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by ThankYouJack » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:09 am

willthrill81 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:34 am
terran wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:13 am
willthrill81 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:18 pm
It depends on several factors, but if you're as disenchanted with your career as you seem to be, I'd say that a one or two year long sabbatical might be a good idea. Yes, with 2% withdrawals covering your essential spending, history says that you would be fine to retire now. However, Paula Pant, one of the key figures in the FIRE community, has personally met hundreds of people who have FIREd, most of them around your age, yet only knows one who literally retired (i.e. stopped earning any income at all beyond portfolio withdrawals). People in their 30s almost universally seem to feel the strong need to do something productive, and that 'something' almost invariably turns into an income of some sort. But if you wanted to go do pro bono work for a charity for the rest of your life, you could.
This is a common trope in the early retirement community, but I think there's some serious selection bias going on. How many happily retired people who have no interest in working or starting businesses are going on Paula Pant's podcast or walking up to her at conferences? The early retirees who make themselves visible are starting businesses, etc. We have no idea what the early retirees who don't make themselves visible are up to.
That's certainly possible, but in the absence of better data, it may be the best we have.
My assumption is this: typically if one can save enough to retire in their 30s then they’re extremely good at making money. People tend to enjoy what they’re good / skilled at. So some very early “retirees” may do a career shift or reduce way down on hours but still work in some capacity especially when they have the flexibility to do anything they want job wise. And extra $ for discretionary spending is a nice plus too.

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Nathan Drake
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by Nathan Drake » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:12 am

CppCoder wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:52 am
Nathan Drake wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:36 pm
market timer wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:28 pm
Nathan Drake wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:32 pm
That last comment really resonates with my current situation. I’m just burned out and kind of “done” with any sort of corporate role, disillusioned with its rigid culture and work/life balance, and lack of meaningful incentives for exceptional performance.
Most people think of their job as a game where they try to maximize income or title by producing as much value as possible. What if you instead thought of your job as a game where you try to minimize the number of hours you had to work in order to provide sufficient value to justify your continued employment? The reward for exceptional efficiency is more time to use as you please.
That’d be nice, I wish I could go part time, but there’s a 40 hr minimum wall that’s not avoidable.
I think your problem is one of perspective. In your original post, you talk about transitioning to management, overworking, and a pressure cooker environment. When I transitioned to management, I found the job to be much easier and less stressful than the technical engineering work I was doing. You just have to embrace a new mindset. First, you must delegate. Don't act like an individual contributor anymore. Accept that others do *all* the work, and you enable them (through coaching, setting strategy, etc.). Second, it's only a pressure cooker and stressful if you let it be. You need to stop caring. The best advice I got transitioning to a management role was from a senior person in the company. He said, "You are going to encounter a lot of problems in this job, ones you didn't even know existed. Just remember, they are mega corp's problems, not yours."

In returning to market timer's comment, yes, you have to physically be there 40 hours per week, but unless you have a horrible, horrible culture, no one pays attention to what you're doing for those hours as long as you get everything done. If you really want to check out and retire in place, you can. You must not have been in mega corp's management very long if you haven't realized how hard it is to get rid of people. I've seen people going on their second decade of phoning it in...

To say “just delegate” is easier said than done and is highly dependent on the quality of your direct reports. My company has been in growth mode for over a decade and the vast majority of our technical employees are directly out of school, and the boomer generation is retiring. The people that have 10-15 years of experience are having to manage the chaos of those that hardly have any.

And in a highly technical, detail driven role, if mistakes are made they can have serious financial consequences since my business is very labor and capital intensive.

There is no way I could be hands off. There’s a massive amount of knowledge that takes many years of experience to get where I am. I am obviously trying to disseminate as much as I can but edge cases are impossible to adequately train for.

I have witnessed several managers that were mostly “delegaters” and leaders that ended up having projects blow up in their face because they did not have adequate technical knowledge or weren’t technically involved enough to prevent the disasters from happening. They are no longer managers.
Last edited by Nathan Drake on Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jebediah
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by Jebediah » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:13 am

I "retired" from working for someone else in order to work twice as hard for myself earning a negative income. I'm chiming in because I rarely hear much about working hard at what you love for zero money in these FIRE threads. People assume that work leads to income but in my world (art) that just isn't the deal.

I don't know whether I'm "retired" or not. The word is pretty useless and just causes a bunch of confusion.

Topic Author
Nathan Drake
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by Nathan Drake » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:25 am

Cheez-It Guy wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:09 am
I’m 35, and reading the original post was a bit like looking in the mirror, to be honest. I’ve been working for the same company in a variety of jobs since graduation 13 years ago. I like most elements of my work (technical role), but it has grown to be too much, and it’s not fun anymore. It never stops, and there is no catching up and no one to whom to delegate. It’s a really crappy feeling to both start and finish every day in the hole. Some of the older set here may not fully understand how oppressive the “always on, always connected” conditions of the modern workplace can be. There is no end of the day for a salaried worker. A constant barrage of E-Mails, phone calls, texts, and meeting invites. Colleagues around the world so that E-Mails are sent from all time zones at all times of day and night. Open office floor plan creates the most distracting workplace possible. As someone else mentioned previously, I find I use my weekends just mentally recovering and dreading going back to work. I don’t mind hard work in the least, but this is really working on me mentally. On some ways, I find myself envious of the shift workers who can just work their hours, and then go home and leave it for someone else.

I think about some form of retirement frequently. I’ve given it over a year to see if it was a passing phase. I still have the same feelings, and they’ve possibly intensified. I have a moderate compensation with an extremely high savings rate coupled with extremely low expenses in a low cost of living area. No debt. The math doesn’t lie. I probably could retire tomorrow and die with a higher balance than what I started with. I also think I would be good at further minimizing expenses during market downturns to give things time to recover. My food and transportation expenses would also be reduced if I wasn’t working. While I don’t like to think about, I will likely have some future inheritance as well, and a partial Social Security benefit if that even still exists (neither really factor in to my planning).

I find myself wondering what I am working for at all. It’s added stress. I would like to prioritize other things in life. Just this past week, I learned of a colleague who I’d guess is in his early 40s and not outwardly unhealthy having a heart attack while on vacation with his family. Thankfully, he survived, but now has three stents and is at home recovering. I can feel the stress working on my body, and I see many relatively older workers with chronic health issues constantly taking time off work to go to one doctor another. I don’t want to end up that way at that early an age. I could also reduce my environmental footprint considerably by not commuting or traveling for business.

There are other things I’d like to prioritize in life. I have lots of interests and hobbies (many of which are also free or quite low cost), so I don’t think I’d be bored. I think I’d seek volunteer or community education opportunities. I wouldn’t be opposed to local low-stress part-time work to cover insurance. My parents are also aging, and I want to be in a position to help them stay independent and stay at home as long as they can. Eventually, I assume I will become executor of their estate, and I cannot imagine managing all of that with proper duty and care while maintaining a full-time job. I see them aging more every time I visit. Thankfully, they are still very happy and healthy compared to their peer group, but I now somewhat resent my job keeping me two hours away. Time doesn’t stop.

Maybe I will work a few more years, but much honestly, why? Societal expectations? Risk aversion? Do I really need 100% chance of success on those retirement calculators, or is 95+% good enough? These are rhetorical questions.
Almost everything about this post resonates with what I’m going through right now. Thanks for sharing.

CppCoder
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by CppCoder » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:27 pm

Nathan Drake wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:12 am
To say “just delegate” is easier said than done and is highly dependent on the quality of your direct reports. My company has been in growth mode for over a decade and the vast majority of our technical employees are directly out of school, and the boomer generation is retiring. The people that have 10-15 years of experience are having to manage the chaos of those that hardly have any.

And in a highly technical, detail driven role, if mistakes are made they can have serious financial consequences since my business is very labor and capital intensive.

There is no way I could be hands off. There’s a massive amount of knowledge that takes many years of experience to get where I am. I am obviously trying to disseminate as much as I can but edge cases are impossible to adequately train for.

I have witnessed several managers that were mostly “delegaters” and leaders that ended up having projects blow up in their face because they did not have adequate technical knowledge or weren’t technically involved enough to prevent the disasters from happening. They are no longer managers.
I'm quite aware of what delegating means in a very technical organization. I'm a research manager for an energy company. Delegation is not about asking other people to do your job and walking away. Delegation should be used to develop employees. You don't just hand out work and hope for the best. You should stop doing technical work yourself but maintain technical oversight. Yes, the people who delegate and ignore end up failures. You know what, the managers who don't learn to delegate properly fail in different ways and/or burn out for doing all the work and getting no reward. What was your original post about again? :oops:

Topic Author
Nathan Drake
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by Nathan Drake » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:44 pm

CppCoder wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:27 pm
Nathan Drake wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:12 am
To say “just delegate” is easier said than done and is highly dependent on the quality of your direct reports. My company has been in growth mode for over a decade and the vast majority of our technical employees are directly out of school, and the boomer generation is retiring. The people that have 10-15 years of experience are having to manage the chaos of those that hardly have any.

And in a highly technical, detail driven role, if mistakes are made they can have serious financial consequences since my business is very labor and capital intensive.

There is no way I could be hands off. There’s a massive amount of knowledge that takes many years of experience to get where I am. I am obviously trying to disseminate as much as I can but edge cases are impossible to adequately train for.

I have witnessed several managers that were mostly “delegaters” and leaders that ended up having projects blow up in their face because they did not have adequate technical knowledge or weren’t technically involved enough to prevent the disasters from happening. They are no longer managers.
I'm quite aware of what delegating means in a very technical organization. I'm a research manager for an energy company. Delegation is not about asking other people to do your job and walking away. Delegation should be used to develop employees. You don't just hand out work and hope for the best. You should stop doing technical work yourself but maintain technical oversight. Yes, the people who delegate and ignore end up failures. You know what, the managers who don't learn to delegate properly fail in different ways and/or burn out for doing all the work and getting no reward. What was your original post about again? :oops:
I'm sure you are quite well aware. What you're not well aware of is my personal day-to-day. I am already delegating/mentoring as much as I can, in additional to the huge list of tasks that I'm responsible for or have to respond to as the central point of contact. There's nothing you're suggesting I do, that I'm not already doing.

CppCoder
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by CppCoder » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:10 pm

Nathan Drake wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:44 pm
CppCoder wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:27 pm
Nathan Drake wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:12 am
To say “just delegate” is easier said than done and is highly dependent on the quality of your direct reports. My company has been in growth mode for over a decade and the vast majority of our technical employees are directly out of school, and the boomer generation is retiring. The people that have 10-15 years of experience are having to manage the chaos of those that hardly have any.

And in a highly technical, detail driven role, if mistakes are made they can have serious financial consequences since my business is very labor and capital intensive.

There is no way I could be hands off. There’s a massive amount of knowledge that takes many years of experience to get where I am. I am obviously trying to disseminate as much as I can but edge cases are impossible to adequately train for.

I have witnessed several managers that were mostly “delegaters” and leaders that ended up having projects blow up in their face because they did not have adequate technical knowledge or weren’t technically involved enough to prevent the disasters from happening. They are no longer managers.
I'm quite aware of what delegating means in a very technical organization. I'm a research manager for an energy company. Delegation is not about asking other people to do your job and walking away. Delegation should be used to develop employees. You don't just hand out work and hope for the best. You should stop doing technical work yourself but maintain technical oversight. Yes, the people who delegate and ignore end up failures. You know what, the managers who don't learn to delegate properly fail in different ways and/or burn out for doing all the work and getting no reward. What was your original post about again? :oops:
I'm sure you are quite well aware. What you're not well aware of is my personal day-to-day. I am already delegating/mentoring as much as I can, in additional to the huge list of tasks that I'm responsible for or have to respond to as the central point of contact. There's nothing you're suggesting I do, that I'm not already doing.
There is...care less...

donaldfair71
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by donaldfair71 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:22 pm

Trader Joe wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:05 pm
Nathan Drake wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:04 pm
This place is extremely conservative it seems, financially. But I was curious if anyone had just called it quits from the corporate grind much younger than normal? In my 20s, I was very motivated and engaged to learn as much as I could at my career. Now, moving into management the environment has become a bit of a pressure cooker and the just just feels like going through the motions.

There's no big benefit for working more, either...Raises are pretty standard, promotions few and far between. There's nothing to learn other than the peculiarities of a given project (which aren't very interesting). The job mainly boils down to leading projects and mentoring others to accomplish work with more demanding schedules and budgets. I spend a lot of time at work, and what little free time I have is essentially in recovery mode from the stressors of the week. The non-stop barrage of emails, workers asking for help, and meetings has made me feel a bit burned out with a state of mind that is cluttered and constantly distracted with the day-to-day of corporate life that makes emergencies out of every situation. Going into my career, I was a pretty relaxed person, but now it has caused a tremendous amount of stress and anxiety which I feel is chipping away at my health.

I just don't really see any point after you've saved enough. No, I don't have millions saved up, but my living expenses are modest. What if you had saved up enough in your 30s such that a 2% SWR covered basic living expenses, and up to a 4% could be used for discretionary spending?

Anyone have similar thoughts to my own after working at a megacorp for so long? I honestly don't know how the people with 30+ years of experience do it.
Not me. I love to work. New money is no longer needed.
Same. I’m FIRE: Financially Independent Remain Employed, age 38.

If I retired tomorrow and someone told me to to follow my passion and look for what will fulfill me, it would be working with young people in a school setting. I start my 13th year teaching tomorrow. I would do it for free.

I never ever feel like I’m going to work. It’s not work. The day feels like it’s about 5 minutes long.

just1question
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by just1question » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:36 pm

Nathan Drake wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:25 am
Cheez-It Guy wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:09 am
I’m 35, and reading the original post was a bit like looking in the mirror, to be honest. I’ve been working for the same company in a variety of jobs since graduation 13 years ago. I like most elements of my work (technical role), but it has grown to be too much, and it’s not fun anymore. It never stops, and there is no catching up and no one to whom to delegate. It’s a really crappy feeling to both start and finish every day in the hole. Some of the older set here may not fully understand how oppressive the “always on, always connected” conditions of the modern workplace can be. There is no end of the day for a salaried worker. A constant barrage of E-Mails, phone calls, texts, and meeting invites. Colleagues around the world so that E-Mails are sent from all time zones at all times of day and night. Open office floor plan creates the most distracting workplace possible. As someone else mentioned previously, I find I use my weekends just mentally recovering and dreading going back to work. I don’t mind hard work in the least, but this is really working on me mentally. On some ways, I find myself envious of the shift workers who can just work their hours, and then go home and leave it for someone else.

I think about some form of retirement frequently. I’ve given it over a year to see if it was a passing phase. I still have the same feelings, and they’ve possibly intensified. I have a moderate compensation with an extremely high savings rate coupled with extremely low expenses in a low cost of living area. No debt. The math doesn’t lie. I probably could retire tomorrow and die with a higher balance than what I started with. I also think I would be good at further minimizing expenses during market downturns to give things time to recover. My food and transportation expenses would also be reduced if I wasn’t working. While I don’t like to think about, I will likely have some future inheritance as well, and a partial Social Security benefit if that even still exists (neither really factor in to my planning).

I find myself wondering what I am working for at all. It’s added stress. I would like to prioritize other things in life. Just this past week, I learned of a colleague who I’d guess is in his early 40s and not outwardly unhealthy having a heart attack while on vacation with his family. Thankfully, he survived, but now has three stents and is at home recovering. I can feel the stress working on my body, and I see many relatively older workers with chronic health issues constantly taking time off work to go to one doctor another. I don’t want to end up that way at that early an age. I could also reduce my environmental footprint considerably by not commuting or traveling for business.

There are other things I’d like to prioritize in life. I have lots of interests and hobbies (many of which are also free or quite low cost), so I don’t think I’d be bored. I think I’d seek volunteer or community education opportunities. I wouldn’t be opposed to local low-stress part-time work to cover insurance. My parents are also aging, and I want to be in a position to help them stay independent and stay at home as long as they can. Eventually, I assume I will become executor of their estate, and I cannot imagine managing all of that with proper duty and care while maintaining a full-time job. I see them aging more every time I visit. Thankfully, they are still very happy and healthy compared to their peer group, but I now somewhat resent my job keeping me two hours away. Time doesn’t stop.

Maybe I will work a few more years, but much honestly, why? Societal expectations? Risk aversion? Do I really need 100% chance of success on those retirement calculators, or is 95+% good enough? These are rhetorical questions.
Almost everything about this post resonates with what I’m going through right now. Thanks for sharing.
This resonates with me as well, except I'm about 15 years older, so I have chosen to stick it out, at least this far. I have no sage words of advice to offer financially or career-wise. But as to the stress and colleagues with health problems, I suggest exercise, and a lot of it. Yeah, it sucks waking up at 5 am to make time for working out, but by the time I'm heading into work I've already accomplished something and I'm done with my exercise for the day. I know too many people in their 50s+ who are obese, alcoholics, and/or have suffered from heart and related problems.

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sperry8
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by sperry8 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:51 pm

Nathan Drake wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:04 pm
This place is extremely conservative it seems, financially. But I was curious if anyone had just called it quits from the corporate grind much younger than normal? In my 20s, I was very motivated and engaged to learn as much as I could at my career. Now, moving into management the environment has become a bit of a pressure cooker and just feels like going through the motions.

There's no big benefit for working more, either...Raises are pretty standard, promotions few and far between. There's nothing to learn other than the peculiarities of a given project (which aren't very interesting). The job mainly boils down to leading projects and mentoring others to accomplish work with more demanding schedules and budgets. I spend a lot of time at work, and what little free time I have is essentially in recovery mode from the stressors of the week. The non-stop barrage of emails, workers asking for help, and meetings has made me feel a bit burned out with a state of mind that is cluttered and constantly distracted with the day-to-day of corporate life that makes emergencies out of every situation. Going into my career, I was a pretty relaxed person, but now it has caused a tremendous amount of stress and anxiety which I feel is chipping away at my health.

I just don't really see any point after you've saved enough. No, I don't have millions saved up, but my living expenses are modest. What if you had saved up enough in your 30s such that a 2% SWR covered basic living expenses, and up to a 4% could be used for discretionary spending?

Anyone have similar thoughts to my own after working at a megacorp for so long? I honestly don't know how the people with 30+ years of experience do it.
I retired in my 30s. I liked my job but life is very short and society has a weird way/expectation in how we are "supposed" to live our lives. I don't buy into it and so I retired. Haven't regretted it once. However, I also retired with enough assets to live on the 4% withdrawal rate rule.

OP I'd suggest you take a sabbatical. Take 6 mos off an go travel the world (or whatever else you love to do). Then you can decide how permanent you want to make your sabbatical.

As for others who like their work... I pose this question to you. Imagine you are a soul vying for life on Earth and speaking to whatever entity you believe in (or just the universe if you are an atheist). You are explaining to said entity the reasons why you should be given life. Be honest with your answer. Does it include spending 10-12 hours every day doing this work? Do you think the entity would give your soul (among the trillions of possible souls vying) the opportunity? I try to live my life to ensure that I am living life to my souls purpose. If your "work" accomplishes this - kudos. You're living correctly for you. But I have found that many who claim to like/love their work simply don't know what else to do with their lives and find it easier to fit the norms of societies expectations. Life is very short. Tomorrow is not guaranteed. Live responsibly, but fully with the time you have.
BH contest results: 2019: #233 of 645 | 18: #150 of 493 | 17: #516 of 647 | 16: #121 of 610 | 15: #18 of 552 | 14: #225 of 503 | 13: #383 of 433 | 12: #366 of 410 | 11: #113 of 369 | 10: #53 of 282

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steve roy
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by steve roy » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:41 pm

Here's a guy who retired in his mid 30s: Paul Terhorst.

https://www.amazon.com/Paul-Terhorst/e/ ... pop_book_1

The linked tome was written decades ago, and influenced tons of people. The financial advice in it is long out of date, but the rest of the work still resonates. (Terhorst re-invested out of CDs and into stocks in the late '80s.)

He and his wife Vicki travel(ed) the world, living in places that tickled their fancy. They bought a house in Argentina and owned it for a few years, but mostly they learned the art of living light and had their lives set up so they could pick up and "go" as the spirit moved them. They stored all their essential documents in two boxes, and left them with relatives stateside. They had reasonably-priced health coverage (pre-Medicare) that they purchased outside the U.S.

They had a blog that detailed their doings and linked to Paul's on-line columns at Living and Investing overseas. I read the blog for years ... but it hasn't been updated for years, so what's going on with the Terhorsts now, I know not...

https://sites.google.com/site/paulvicgroup/

(For those with lengthy memories, I blathered on about the Terhorsts here years ago:)

viewtopic.php?t=60974

EDIT: What the Terhorsts were doing two years ago. All in stocks and quite relaxed about it:

https://retireearlylifestyle.com/aaa/pa ... update.htm
Last edited by steve roy on Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kramer
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by kramer » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:53 pm

steve roy wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:41 pm
Here's a guy who retired in his mid 30s: Paul Terhorst.

https://www.amazon.com/Paul-Terhorst/e/ ... pop_book_1

The linked tome was written decades ago, and influenced tons of people. The financial advice in it is long out of date, but the rest of the work still resonates. (Terhorst re-invested out of CDs and into stocks in the late '80s.)

He and his wife Vicki travel(ed) the world, living in places that tickled their fancy. They bought a house in Argentina and owned it for a few years, but mostly they learned the art of living light and had their lives set up so they could pick up and "go" as the spirit moved them. They stored all their essential documents in two boxes, and left them with relatives stateside. They had reasonably-priced health coverage (pre-Medicare) that they purchased outside the U.S.

They had a blog that detailed their doings and linked to Paul's on-line columns at Living and Investing overseas. I read the blog for years ... but it hasn't been updated for years, so what's going on with the Terhorsts now, I know not...

https://sites.google.com/site/paulvicgroup/

(For those with lengthy memories, I blathered on about the Terhorsts here years ago:)

viewtopic.php?t=60974

EDIT: What the Terhorsts were doing two years ago. All in stocks and quite relaxed about it:

https://retireearlylifestyle.com/aaa/pa ... update.htm
I met Paul and Vicki a couple of times in Thailand around ten years ago and they seemed to be enjoying life. I am also friends with the Retire Early Lifestyle folks whose link you posted, Billy and Akaisha, who retired at 38. They are genuine and gracious people who really enjoy life. Once a friend and I were traveling through Mexico and we were going to visit their town. A friend of theirs had an empty Casita (like a mother-in-law house in the backyard). They arranged a deal ... we stayed in the Casita for free for 3 or 4 days if we put on a party for a group of expats. It was a blast. However, I did discover that my tennis skills were no match when compared to the older active retired guys.

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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by oilrig » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:12 am

OP, I am in the same situation as you. I am 34, single, no debt, low expenses, 550k net worth (will be about 600k at end of year). I am so burnt out in my job/career. I've tried switching companies several times with no luck, the burnt out feeling persists. A vacation does no help because I still have that dread feeling that I have to return to work in a week, and the work keeps piling up.

My plan is to take a short sabbatical in November or December for about 3 months. During this sabbatical I will travel around Europe or South America and try and do some consulting. I will try and start my own business (which I have already done) and pick up clients. If I havent picked up any clients in 3 months then I will consider going back to work full-time for whatever soulless megacorp will hire me lol.

This is my plan as of today, but who knows what will happen! New opportunities are presented to me several times a week, so anything is possible.

Best of luck to you OP.

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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by willthrill81 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:20 pm

oilrig wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:12 am
OP, I am in the same situation as you. I am 34, single, no debt, low expenses, 550k net worth (will be about 600k at end of year). I am so burnt out in my job/career. I've tried switching companies several times with no luck, the burnt out feeling persists. A vacation does no help because I still have that dread feeling that I have to return to work in a week, and the work keeps piling up.

My plan is to take a short sabbatical in November or December for about 3 months. During this sabbatical I will travel around Europe or South America and try and do some consulting. I will try and start my own business (which I have already done) and pick up clients. If I havent picked up any clients in 3 months then I will consider going back to work full-time for whatever soulless megacorp will hire me lol.

This is my plan as of today, but who knows what will happen! New opportunities are presented to me several times a week, so anything is possible.

Best of luck to you OP.
I too have had a job where I literally hated to wake up because I knew that I had to go back to work. :(

Your plan sounds reasonable. I'm not sure if three months is going to be enough time for you to pick up enough clients and build a business to the point of it being capable of supporting you, but it may help you reduce portfolio withdrawals. You didn't say how much your expenses are, but you could probably go for at least a year without any income and not put too big of a dent in your portfolio.

Life is too short to do work that you hate if you don't have to.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

oilrig
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by oilrig » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:27 pm

willthrill81 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:20 pm
oilrig wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:12 am
OP, I am in the same situation as you. I am 34, single, no debt, low expenses, 550k net worth (will be about 600k at end of year). I am so burnt out in my job/career. I've tried switching companies several times with no luck, the burnt out feeling persists. A vacation does no help because I still have that dread feeling that I have to return to work in a week, and the work keeps piling up.

My plan is to take a short sabbatical in November or December for about 3 months. During this sabbatical I will travel around Europe or South America and try and do some consulting. I will try and start my own business (which I have already done) and pick up clients. If I havent picked up any clients in 3 months then I will consider going back to work full-time for whatever soulless megacorp will hire me lol.

This is my plan as of today, but who knows what will happen! New opportunities are presented to me several times a week, so anything is possible.

Best of luck to you OP.
I too have had a job where I literally hated to wake up because I knew that I had to go back to work. :(

Your plan sounds reasonable. I'm not sure if three months is going to be enough time for you to pick up enough clients and build a business to the point of it being capable of supporting you, but it may help you reduce portfolio withdrawals. You didn't say how much your expenses are, but you could probably go for at least a year without any income and not put too big of a dent in your portfolio.

Life is too short to do work that you hate if you don't have to.
My expenses are around $2000/month. I could probably live off dividends and some side hustles I do online during those 3 months and not touch my portfolio. I also have around $80k in cash that I could use during the sabbatical.

Im looking forward to it!

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willthrill81
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by willthrill81 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:28 pm

oilrig wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:27 pm
willthrill81 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:20 pm
oilrig wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:12 am
OP, I am in the same situation as you. I am 34, single, no debt, low expenses, 550k net worth (will be about 600k at end of year). I am so burnt out in my job/career. I've tried switching companies several times with no luck, the burnt out feeling persists. A vacation does no help because I still have that dread feeling that I have to return to work in a week, and the work keeps piling up.

My plan is to take a short sabbatical in November or December for about 3 months. During this sabbatical I will travel around Europe or South America and try and do some consulting. I will try and start my own business (which I have already done) and pick up clients. If I havent picked up any clients in 3 months then I will consider going back to work full-time for whatever soulless megacorp will hire me lol.

This is my plan as of today, but who knows what will happen! New opportunities are presented to me several times a week, so anything is possible.

Best of luck to you OP.
I too have had a job where I literally hated to wake up because I knew that I had to go back to work. :(

Your plan sounds reasonable. I'm not sure if three months is going to be enough time for you to pick up enough clients and build a business to the point of it being capable of supporting you, but it may help you reduce portfolio withdrawals. You didn't say how much your expenses are, but you could probably go for at least a year without any income and not put too big of a dent in your portfolio.

Life is too short to do work that you hate if you don't have to.
My expenses are around $2000/month. I could probably live off dividends and some side hustles I do online during those 3 months and not touch my portfolio. I also have around $80k in cash that I could use during the sabbatical.

Im looking forward to it!
As you should! You sound to be in very good shape.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by ohai » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:36 pm

Wouldn't retiring in your 30s result in some kind of existential purgatory without a sense of life progress? What do you do such that the days don't all seem the same?

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willthrill81
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by willthrill81 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:37 pm

ohai wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:36 pm
Wouldn't retiring in your 30s result in some kind of existential purgatory without a sense of life progress? What do you do such that the days don't all seem the same?
Are you saying that gainful employment is the only source of contentment or "life progress" for someone in their 30s?
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by thx1138 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:50 pm

You say you are in “technical - engineering” and then that you are basically doing management/program management (meaning not very technical anymore). And that you can’t work less than 40 hrs.

Yes if you go into middle management or program management you are likely going to be very stressed unless you have the right personality. And few places want a less than 40 hr manager. In general managers are information choke points. The whole point of a manager is to be cognizant of the whole and to make decisions at that level. They are suppose to integrate information from lots of sources (usually people). Thus it is difficult for a manager to be efficient part time and rare for a company to support such.

Sounds like the problem isn’t that you don’t like working it is that you don’t like being a manager. You’ve fallen into the common trap of thinking the only career path for an engineer is moving into management. This is true at many companies to be sure - lots of companies don’t really need much senior technical expertise. Not universally true though.

Start finding a path out of management. May need to move companies. May need to change sub fields a bit too depending on your background. This advice assumes you actually like challenging technical work though! If you moved into management because you didn’t like senior level tech work then my advice isn’t useful.

And mid-30s is a typical time to get burned out. Most of us end up wherever we are in our mid-30s being on autopilot. Or we get where we think we were aiming for only to discover it isn’t what we thought. Remember people are pretty bad at estimating what will make them happy. Time to regroup.

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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by telecaster » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:52 pm

There are definitely people who love their jobs and would work even if they didn't need to. But this is definitely the minority... if you are financially independent and able to, then do it! You can fill your time with hobbies and side hustles that fulfill you and do not stress you out.

This is my plan as soon as I can!

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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by surfstar » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:32 pm

ohai wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:36 pm
Wouldn't retiring in your 30s result in some kind of existential purgatory without a sense of life progress? What do you do such that the days don't all seem the same?
What?!?

I'd have to wager that your life is devoid of progress if you think that retiring from work in your 30s has those results.

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Meaty
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by Meaty » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:41 pm

Nathan Drake wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:16 pm
Trader Joe wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:11 pm
Nathan Drake wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:11 pm
Trader Joe wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:05 pm
Nathan Drake wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:04 pm
This place is extremely conservative it seems, financially. But I was curious if anyone had just called it quits from the corporate grind much younger than normal? In my 20s, I was very motivated and engaged to learn as much as I could at my career. Now, moving into management the environment has become a bit of a pressure cooker and the just just feels like going through the motions.

There's no big benefit for working more, either...Raises are pretty standard, promotions few and far between. There's nothing to learn other than the peculiarities of a given project (which aren't very interesting). The job mainly boils down to leading projects and mentoring others to accomplish work with more demanding schedules and budgets. I spend a lot of time at work, and what little free time I have is essentially in recovery mode from the stressors of the week. The non-stop barrage of emails, workers asking for help, and meetings has made me feel a bit burned out with a state of mind that is cluttered and constantly distracted with the day-to-day of corporate life that makes emergencies out of every situation. Going into my career, I was a pretty relaxed person, but now it has caused a tremendous amount of stress and anxiety which I feel is chipping away at my health.

I just don't really see any point after you've saved enough. No, I don't have millions saved up, but my living expenses are modest. What if you had saved up enough in your 30s such that a 2% SWR covered basic living expenses, and up to a 4% could be used for discretionary spending?

Anyone have similar thoughts to my own after working at a megacorp for so long? I honestly don't know how the people with 30+ years of experience do it.
Not me. I love to work. New money is no longer needed.
What do you love about your work? I think this has to be the exception
I love everything about my work. I can guarantee you that I am not an exception.
So most people love everything about their work? I find this hard to believe

Congrats on loving everything about your work but I find most careers are stressful, monotonous grinds
I’m with the OP - more power to the folks who love to work - but for me, I’m out as soon as I’m financially able
"Discipline equals Freedom" - Jocko Willink

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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by Dottie57 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:02 pm

NearlyRetired wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:16 am
Cheez-It Guy wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:09 am
A constant barrage of E-Mails, phone calls, texts, and meeting invites. Colleagues around the world so that E-Mails are sent from all time zones at all times of day and night.
Totally agree, and since being called on Boxing day about a problem I have a work phone and a private phone. Some of my colleagues have software on their personal phone to get work emails/text, but that just keeps you switched on. You have to be ruthless with your time. Ultimately your "salary" is a contract for you to provide a certain amount of your time for a figure. Do any more than that "pro bono" then you are devaluing your worth.
I found it hard to cut back. In the tech world there was always the underlying threat you would be replaced by much cheaper off shore developers.

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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by Oakwood42 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:27 pm

kramer wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:08 pm
I can relate to what you are feeling. I got a late start (started college at age 23) and started my first real full-time job at age 29 (engineering) in Silicon Valley with a graduate degree from a top university. I loved my job for almost one decade and I was a star at work (same company whole way with different roles). Then I got burned out and I just couldn't recover, something I never would have predicted. I retired at age 41. I had enough saved to retire (now mid-50s, permanently retired) and travel the world and also had enough things to pursue to keep life interesting. I never worked for money again.

However, looking back with the benefit of hindsight, I should have changed jobs as soon as I burned out. I could also have taken a long vacation first with all the vacation time I had accumulated on my job. And then retire at age 43 to 45, depending on how well my second job was going. And I could have relocated for that new job, something I was also thinking about.

I don't regret what I did, but I do think I should have tried something different. Once I was out of the tech world for over a year, there was pretty much no way I was going back. Also, the Great Recession came at that time so it would have been difficult even if I wanted to do that.

The point is, you have a lot of money saved, and it is OK to take other options, even if they are riskier or pay less. I just plowed forward on my job because I was making so much money and had fear about pursuing other options despite my burnout.
wow that is interesting.

Oakwood42
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by Oakwood42 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:29 pm

AerialWombat wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:46 pm
Nathan Drake wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:21 pm

How does one work less and make more?
Own the company.
lol

Oakwood42
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by Oakwood42 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:36 pm

msk wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:38 am
Retired 20 years, now aged 75. This past year has been rather boring. Spending more and more time on BH! Bucket list finished a decade ago. Too lazy even to pursue my old hobbies. Seen the world, etc. Been around twice. Health and wealth fine. Be careful as to what you wish for. I am not keen for another 20 years of this boredom. Fortune teller 57 years ago told me I'll marry 3x (so far only twice), have 4 kids (correct till date), die at 95... Really retire at 30? At least plan a round the world sailing trip or something. That ought to take a few years, but you will still be left with vacancies during 40s, 50s, etc. Past month I have been designing a couple of new houses to build on vacant land I own. Lifelong hobby that delivered 10 buildings so far. But I've had enough of tenants! Perhaps this time just build and sell...
interesting post - thank you for sharing.

Was building houses something on this side or primary income?

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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by Hastelloy » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:45 pm

Nathan,
You're not alone, I'm on the same trajectory and fully plan on making radical changes as soon as I hit my number in 4 years or so. I don't plan on sitting in front of a television after I leave the 9-5, though I think that is a real hazard for some. Make sure it doesn't happen to you. I plan on prioritizing community, meaningfullness, learning interesting things and adventure after I leave. I keep a fluid and evolving list of things I want to do or learn at the ready for when the day comes. Each item on the list has the potential to branch off into many other rabbit holes as I travel, meet new people and find new opportunities. I can't even count the number of amazing opportunities I've turned down over the years because I couldn't leave my job and my steady paycheck. No more! Here's a few things on my list for the curious:
-Backpack the Continental Divide Trail
-Backpack Te Aurora (NZ)
-Long bike tours
-Work in Wildlife rehab
-Motorcycle trip to arctic circle
-Work with Engineers Without Borders
-Work in Antarctica
-Learn to farm
-Learn timber framing
-Continue JiuJitsu
-Conservation volunteer opportunities
-Long river trips?
-Learn about co-housing so all my friends can live together affordably.

We are very fortunate to be in a position where we are able to even consider the possibility of FIRE before 40. Minimalism and scrappyness are your superpowers, don't let anyone try to tell you to adhere to any material or behavioral class standards. There's a big wide world out there and it's all too easy to get stuck in a mindset that your job is your only purpose on this planet. Maybe you'll find another job along the way, maybe it will pay less and be vastly more fulfilling, who knows?

msk
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by msk » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:45 pm

Oakwood42 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:36 pm
msk wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:38 am
Retired 20 years, now aged 75. This past year has been rather boring. Spending more and more time on BH! Bucket list finished a decade ago. Too lazy even to pursue my old hobbies. Seen the world, etc. Been around twice. Health and wealth fine. Be careful as to what you wish for. I am not keen for another 20 years of this boredom. Fortune teller 57 years ago told me I'll marry 3x (so far only twice), have 4 kids (correct till date), die at 95... Really retire at 30? At least plan a round the world sailing trip or something. That ought to take a few years, but you will still be left with vacancies during 40s, 50s, etc. Past month I have been designing a couple of new houses to build on vacant land I own. Lifelong hobby that delivered 10 buildings so far. But I've had enough of tenants! Perhaps this time just build and sell...
interesting post - thank you for sharing.

Was building houses something on this side or primary income?
Just as a side hobby. Turned out more profitable than my full time job even though I did quite well at that too. Ended up a Director at a Fortune 10. If you are tempted, just go for it. The more advanced an economy is, the more terrified the normal folk are of building on their own. E.g. in a 3rd world country nobody is terrified of building his hut. This gets very obvious in the European Union. Private individuals hardly ever build their own houses in the Western EU but as you go to the newer Eastern EU it gets more common. Why build your own: You get exactly what you and DW wants/dreams of. Then when you complete the house you can probably make a profit of 15 to 25%. That covers all the anguish, anxiety and bank interest you have paid. Your time was fun, a hobby! And you learn a LOT. For your next project. Your major stumbling block is the initial mortgage. Save and pay cash for the land and mortgage that. Lender makes further advances as per building progress. After the first build, you know exactly what to do for the next one. My first was a single family home, next an 8-unit apartment building, etc. Largest was an 18-unit apartment block. Most expensive was my current 14,000 sq ft home. Yes, silly size, but it does include all the silly "wants" accumulated over a lifetime.

ARoseByAnyOtherName
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:49 pm

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:57 am
Nathan Drake wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:39 pm
Truth be told my minimalism also has me skeptical of the value of most businesses which has lessened my enthusiasm for consumer products.
The hottest thing in tech right now is not consumer, it’s developer tools.
The hottest thing in tech right now is not developer tools.

It’s machine learning.

Lee_WSP
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by Lee_WSP » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:26 pm

You could just hate management. Careers give us something to do; a purpose in life. Being jobless is not fun; you need a reason to wake up in the morning.

Cyanide123
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by Cyanide123 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:08 am

I sometimes toy with the idea of retiring in my mid to late 30s. I could easily do it, but it requires going back to my home country where cost of living is dirt cheap.

As a physician i currently have 155k of educational debt. I'll be debt free in 8-9 months and then after that I'll be adding roughly $170-200k to net worth annually by saving. If i go back to the other side of the world, i can have an extremely luxurious life with a million dollars saved, which i can by 36-38. When i say luxurious, i mean having a personal chauffer, a cook, and a maid for cleaning and never working another day if i wanted to.

I probably need 4M to retire here and will never have the same level of luxurious life here.

scrabbler1
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by scrabbler1 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:25 am

Lee_WSP wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:26 pm
You could just hate management. Careers give us something to do; a purpose in life. Being jobless is not fun; you need a reason to wake up in the morning.
I totally disagree. I am 56 and have been retired for 11 years and have liked every day of it. Being voluntarily jobless is much more fun than working. Even though I liked my job much of the time, I hated getting up in the morning and going through the awful morning routine and commute to work, even as little as 2 days a week. For the last few years of my "career," I asked myself all the time, "Why am I still working here?"

Jebediah
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by Jebediah » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:49 am

scrabbler1 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:25 am
Lee_WSP wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:26 pm
You could just hate management. Careers give us something to do; a purpose in life. Being jobless is not fun; you need a reason to wake up in the morning.
I totally disagree. I am 56 and have been retired for 11 years and have liked every day of it. Being voluntarily jobless is much more fun than working. Even though I liked my job much of the time, I hated getting up in the morning and going through the awful morning routine and commute to work, even as little as 2 days a week. For the last few years of my "career," I asked myself all the time, "Why am I still working here?"
Agree with both of you. Humans need interests and stimulation. But that doesn't mean a job or a "career" and too much of the time working for someone else conflicts with pursuing one's interests in one's own way.

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goodenyou
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by goodenyou » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:43 am

I didn't get started until I was in my 30s.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" | Do you know how to make a rain dance work? Dance until it rains.

Lee_WSP
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by Lee_WSP » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:53 am

scrabbler1 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:25 am
Lee_WSP wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:26 pm
You could just hate management. Careers give us something to do; a purpose in life. Being jobless is not fun; you need a reason to wake up in the morning.
I totally disagree. I am 56 and have been retired for 11 years and have liked every day of it. Being voluntarily jobless is much more fun than working. Even though I liked my job much of the time, I hated getting up in the morning and going through the awful morning routine and commute to work, even as little as 2 days a week. For the last few years of my "career," I asked myself all the time, "Why am I still working here?"
I meant involuntarily jobless or jobless without something else to fill the void.

flyingaway
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by flyingaway » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:11 pm

msk wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:38 am
Retired 20 years, now aged 75. This past year has been rather boring. Spending more and more time on BH! Bucket list finished a decade ago. Too lazy even to pursue my old hobbies. Seen the world, etc. Been around twice. Health and wealth fine. Be careful as to what you wish for. I am not keen for another 20 years of this boredom. Fortune teller 57 years ago told me I'll marry 3x (so far only twice), have 4 kids (correct till date), die at 95... Really retire at 30? At least plan a round the world sailing trip or something. That ought to take a few years, but you will still be left with vacancies during 40s, 50s, etc. Past month I have been designing a couple of new houses to build on vacant land I own. Lifelong hobby that delivered 10 buildings so far. But I've had enough of tenants! Perhaps this time just build and sell...
Maybe one more marriage would solve your boringness problem, if you are not currently married.

nonfacebookuser365
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by nonfacebookuser365 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:44 pm

Don’t know of any...

marcus213
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by marcus213 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:11 am

I wanted to jump back and reply to this earlier post by Cheez-It Guy on 18 August:
Some of the older set here may not fully understand how oppressive the “always on, always connected” conditions of the modern workplace can be. There is no end of the day for a salaried worker. A constant barrage of E-Mails, phone calls, texts, and meeting invites. Colleagues around the world so that E-Mails are sent from all time zones at all times of day and night. Open office floor plan creates the most distracting workplace possible. As someone else mentioned previously, I find I use my weekends just mentally recovering and dreading going back to work. I don’t mind hard work in the least, but this is really working on me mentally. On some ways, I find myself envious of the shift workers who can just work their hours, and then go home and leave it for someone else.
This resonated with me very strongly as I've really noticed this change over the last few years at my office. I try to structure my day and set up unofficial rules for myself in order to keep these constant distractions at bay. Cal Newport discusses this kind of stuff in his 'Deep Work' book and I completely agree -- the constant distractions and interruptions significantly chip away at my ability to concentrate and do high-quality work for the company. It's the thing that creates the value that we strive to produce, and allowing the "always on, always connected" culture to become the norm significantly threatens that.

I thank my lucky stars that I got aggressive about saving and investing in my late 20s and early 30s. We had some big successes in the past that resulted in nice bonuses, and each time I socked them away. Knowing I have that stash/'stache built up is a big part of what allows me to deal with the ever-increasing stress at work, and most importantly allows me to say 'no thanks' to this constant encroachment on non-work time mentioned above.

The most ridiculous part of all is that none of this 'always on, always connected' stuff has yet been mandated; my colleagues just readily adopt it, answering emails outside of work, answering instant messages (across several different apps!) when they're off on holiday, and so forth. It becomes de facto expected that you'll just always respond. I simply don't do it; I concentrate and work as hard as I can each day, and when the day is up I'm out of there. I also try and set expectations (as well as give a sort of permission) to my reports, telling them that I won't answer email after I've taken off for the evening and that I don't expect them to, either. If I'm in the office early and they really want to respond to an email before they're in, they're welcome to do so, but otherwise just wait until you're in. If that ever becomes a problem (and I relish the potential future moment when a boss calls me into their office to discuss this) then I'm completely comfortable telling them that I won't do it. They pay me, I work very hard for them, end of story.

To summarize, this is why you save up that 'FU' money and build that stash. If I need to pull the lever and walk, I'm ready to do it here in my early 40s. If I can make it just a little longer to my planned date then I'd like to do that, but it's not necessary, thank goodness.

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Nathan Drake
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by Nathan Drake » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:52 pm

ohai wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:36 pm
Wouldn't retiring in your 30s result in some kind of existential purgatory without a sense of life progress? What do you do such that the days don't all seem the same?
I see doing the same tasks that I've been doing, chained to my desk the vast majority of the week, or in traffic, or recovering from the workweek....as being purgatory without a sense of life progress.
thx1138 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:50 pm
You say you are in “technical - engineering” and then that you are basically doing management/program management (meaning not very technical anymore). And that you can’t work less than 40 hrs.

Yes if you go into middle management or program management you are likely going to be very stressed unless you have the right personality. And few places want a less than 40 hr manager. In general managers are information choke points. The whole point of a manager is to be cognizant of the whole and to make decisions at that level. They are suppose to integrate information from lots of sources (usually people). Thus it is difficult for a manager to be efficient part time and rare for a company to support such.

Sounds like the problem isn’t that you don’t like working it is that you don’t like being a manager. You’ve fallen into the common trap of thinking the only career path for an engineer is moving into management. This is true at many companies to be sure - lots of companies don’t really need much senior technical expertise. Not universally true though.

Start finding a path out of management. May need to move companies. May need to change sub fields a bit too depending on your background. This advice assumes you actually like challenging technical work though! If you moved into management because you didn’t like senior level tech work then my advice isn’t useful.

And mid-30s is a typical time to get burned out. Most of us end up wherever we are in our mid-30s being on autopilot. Or we get where we think we were aiming for only to discover it isn’t what we thought. Remember people are pretty bad at estimating what will make them happy. Time to regroup.
I am still very technical w/ functional management, not program management. Problem is, I don't honestly know what I want. Management is boring....the Technical aspects have become boring. I show up for the paycheck but there's not any career excitement, nor do I see a path to an exciting career.

Another problem is that my actual boss has everything on autopilot, close to retirement, and I do effectively a huge portion of his work. He's just showing up to maximize his pension at this point and then retire. So I feel like I'm being sandwhiched and there's nothing to really do about it but accept it.

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snackdog
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by snackdog » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:16 pm

I retired at age 20, but went back to work at age 30. Fun while it lasted.

wubdemil
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by wubdemil » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:30 pm

I have not read every post but I encourage some of you who are a "burnout" and 1) have good savings, and 2) have Masters or higher degree to consider teaching at a community college. At an instructor at a cc, you will be teaching only 9 months of the year (minus winter break that often lasts a month) and you can come/leave work whenever you want (as long as you show up to class and occasional meetings on time.) You will be earning north of $50k plus generous benefits. Added benefit: this is it will give your life some structure. My $0.02 advice.

visualguy
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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by visualguy » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:21 pm

wubdemil wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:30 pm
I have not read every post but I encourage some of you who are a "burnout" and 1) have good savings, and 2) have Masters or higher degree to consider teaching at a community college. At an instructor at a cc, you will be teaching only 9 months of the year (minus winter break that often lasts a month) and you can come/leave work whenever you want (as long as you show up to class and occasional meetings on time.) You will be earning north of $50k plus generous benefits. Added benefit: this is it will give your life some structure. My $0.02 advice.
Teaching at a CC is far from easy, though... Also, it's a pretty time-consuming job when you add up everything you need to do. You have to prepare your lectures. There are assignments, grading, office hours, etc. The ratio of pay to the amount of work in these jobs isn't good. I would just keep working longer in my original profession unless I suddenly found that teaching CC is my calling.

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Re: Anyone retire in their 30s?

Post by sabhen » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:20 am

OP, I can relate to your predicaments. I was in a similar role as you and hated the "always-on, always-connected culture". I am much older than you. I am very happy I left Megacorp. I think you feel trapped. My advice is to look for other options. You need to change your environment, not just your mindset. Look either inside your company or outside. Forget the Management role. Do you like being an individual contributor? In your thirties, you are still young for a complete career change, if you want. Take some time off to think through your decisions. Imagine you are 90. What would you like to tell your grandchildren about your life? Good luck.

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