No pay increase but increase in responsibility

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Topic Author
alphacollector
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:57 pm

No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by alphacollector » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:54 pm

I wanted to get some feedback on this subject. At a recent weekly meeting, it was alluded to that myself and another person will soon be asked to take on alot of our direct bosses responsibilities since we are incredibly busy and his workload is more than he can handle. I have a pretty good feeling there will not be any additional compensation offered with this increased responsibility. I’m already working 13-15 hours of overtime every week.

If you’ve ran across this situation how did you handle it? I really have no interest in changing jobs. My job is quite specialized and very secure. I have no doubts that I could say I’m not really interested in taking on any more work and not have any repercussions over it, but at the same time I don’t want to be looked at as a non-team player.

Advice?
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? - Mark 8:36

KlangFool
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by KlangFool » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:02 pm

alphacollector wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:54 pm
I wanted to get some feedback on this subject. At a recent weekly meeting, it was alluded to that myself and another person will soon be asked to take on alot of our direct bosses responsibilities since we are incredibly busy and his workload is more than he can handle. I have a pretty good feeling there will not be any additional compensation offered with this increased responsibility. I’m already working 13-15 hours of overtime every week.

If you’ve ran across this situation how did you handle it? I really have no interest in changing jobs. My job is quite specialized and very secure. I have no doubts that I could say I’m not really interested in taking on any more work and not have any repercussions over it, but at the same time I don’t want to be looked at as a non-team player.

Advice?
alphacollector,

<<I’m already working 13-15 hours of overtime every week. >>

If you are willing to work for free, why should your employer let you work less? It is free labor.

It is very simple.

If you cannot say no to your employer, you will do more and more.

KlangFool

P.S.: This is very normal. Folks that cannot and do not say no will do more works.
Last edited by KlangFool on Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HornedToad
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by HornedToad » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:05 pm

Don't work more hours, just prioritize and ask them to clarify what you should no longer work on to take the new responsibility

Prioritization is not deciding what to do first. It's deciding what to do never.

Otherwise you aren't actually saving time.

As for the increase in responsibility with no pay, that's pretty normal as you have to prove it before promoted.

HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:05 pm

KlangFool hit this one right on the head.

Your boss’s job is to properly allocate resources to get the work done. Part of that is planning ahead to ask for more resources during budgeting if the existing resources are already tapped out.

KlangFool
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by KlangFool » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:10 pm

OP,

Tell your boss that you only work 40 hours. Ask him to list the tasks in term of priority. You will finish whatever can be done in 40 hours. If your boss will not give you a list, you just create a list and do whatever on the list. And, email the list to your boss.

Working 10 to 15 hours of overtime for free means than you are free labor. Your time is so insignificant that you are willing to give away for free. So, why should anyone respect you?

Why should I as your boss pay you more when you are willing to work for free?

KlangFool

themuse
Posts: 5
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by themuse » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:16 pm

HornedToad wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:05 pm
Don't work more hours, just prioritize and ask them to clarify what you should no longer work on to take the new responsibility

Prioritization is not deciding what to do first. It's deciding what to do never.
+1

Very well said. It's rarely cut and dried in terms of defined 40hrs unless you work shifts or something. You can show that you are a team player by positioning this prioritization initiative as a new way of reviewing projects, new strategy etc to avoid similar overloading that occurred with your manager in the first place. It is thus something that could benefit others etc.
--themuse-- | | Investing should be boring

Topic Author
alphacollector
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by alphacollector » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:17 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:02 pm
alphacollector wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:54 pm
I wanted to get some feedback on this subject. At a recent weekly meeting, it was alluded to that myself and another person will soon be asked to take on alot of our direct bosses responsibilities since we are incredibly busy and his workload is more than he can handle. I have a pretty good feeling there will not be any additional compensation offered with this increased responsibility. I’m already working 13-15 hours of overtime every week.

If you’ve ran across this situation how did you handle it? I really have no interest in changing jobs. My job is quite specialized and very secure. I have no doubts that I could say I’m not really interested in taking on any more work and not have any repercussions over it, but at the same time I don’t want to be looked at as a non-team player.

Advice?
alphacollector,

<<I’m already working 13-15 hours of overtime every week. >>

If you are willing to work for free, why should your employer let you work less? It is free labor.

It is very simple.

If you cannot say no to your employer, you will do more and more.

KlangFool

P.S.: This is very normal. Folks that cannot and do not say no will do more works.
I’m in the fortunate position that even though I’m salary, I do get straight time overtime, so I do get compensated for every hour over 40. And while this is nice, at some point enough work and responsibility is enough without a pay bump.
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? - Mark 8:36

KlangFool
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by KlangFool » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:24 pm

alphacollector wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:17 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:02 pm
alphacollector wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:54 pm
I wanted to get some feedback on this subject. At a recent weekly meeting, it was alluded to that myself and another person will soon be asked to take on alot of our direct bosses responsibilities since we are incredibly busy and his workload is more than he can handle. I have a pretty good feeling there will not be any additional compensation offered with this increased responsibility. I’m already working 13-15 hours of overtime every week.

If you’ve ran across this situation how did you handle it? I really have no interest in changing jobs. My job is quite specialized and very secure. I have no doubts that I could say I’m not really interested in taking on any more work and not have any repercussions over it, but at the same time I don’t want to be looked at as a non-team player.

Advice?
alphacollector,

<<I’m already working 13-15 hours of overtime every week. >>

If you are willing to work for free, why should your employer let you work less? It is free labor.

It is very simple.

If you cannot say no to your employer, you will do more and more.

KlangFool

P.S.: This is very normal. Folks that cannot and do not say no will do more works.
I’m in the fortunate position that even though I’m salary, I do get straight time overtime, so I do get compensated for every hour over 40. And while this is nice, at some point enough work and responsibility is enough without a pay bump.
alphacollector,

So? It is NOT YOUR JOB to solve your boss resource problem. Just say no.

Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part!

If you do not set a limit, you will be pushed until you collapse. This is normal for any productive employee. It is easier to push the productive employee than asking the slacker to work. 20% of the employees do 80% of the work. And, in most cases, 20% are not rewarded for their efforts.

KlangFool

Bruce T
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by Bruce T » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:27 pm

Advice?

Here is some:
Added pay won't help you if the resulting work load is untenable or causes your work quality to suffer ... you need to sort out how to deal with the situation irrespective of pay ...
1. 15 hours OT at times is not atypical for many professions, but be wary of defaulting (i.e. passively / inadvertently) into that ... only do it if it is a proactive choice on your part ...

2. a few coping strategies for added work load, especially if it's added responsibility (e.g. a growth/learning/higher value-add), not necessarily a good idea to do all this, but the one(s) that feel right might be worth a go:

a. talk w/ your manager "looks like we are suffering from our own success and we all need to step up our game, while my taking on new assignment(s) XYZ might make sense in the short term, we need to recognize that other lower priority items may be adversely impacted, let's discuss priorities as well as how added human resources (or outsourcing, or eliminating non-critical work) can help the intermediate term"

b. if it is going to happen anyway, you might as well be proactive and helpful in addressing it ... far better that than being reluctant / passive, it also may help you cherry pick assignments that are good fits and/or manage some terms related to the added work. So, something along the lines of "you mentioned needing help, I would love to offload XYZ and ABC because those are the areas that I think I can help the most in, if you don't mind, I'd like to do this experimentally for a few (days/weeks/months) and then have us jointly reassess how it's going and the impact that it has on my other work, by the way, here are some opportunities I see to free up some of my time to take this on (i.e. outsource, delegate to others, etc.) if we can factor those into the equation, I am sure we can get great outcomes."

c. if you have annual goals or individual development plans in your workplace, use this change as a avenue to do mid-year adjustments that reflect the added work and/or personal growth ... that may contribute to a better recognition and results of a performance review in future.

3. View the trust your manager has in you as a good thing ... it means his/her role is changing/growing which means you may have attendant growth opportunities as well.

Best wishes!

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Watty
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by Watty » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:49 pm

Unless I missed it then one thing I have not seen mentioned is that you may be able to delegate some your work to someone else even if you need to make a case for adding additional people.

Sometimes the only way to do that is to allocate your time to the most important tasks and let people know that some projects will not be getting done unless there is someone else available to do it.

ssquared87
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by ssquared87 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:00 pm

Of course they won’t offer you additional compensation. But if you are direct and ask for a little bit of an increase they’ll try to work with you. Simply ask, the worst that can happen is they say they can’t do it, but they won’t voluntarily offer you more money unless you ask for it.

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:16 pm

When I first became a manager, which like OP came without more money, I took it for the further advancement possibilities. They materialized after a couple of years.

The initial problem wasn't the increased responsibility. It was I had no additional authority to go with it. That was bad.

I became sane when I realized one of my jobs was to decide what not to do. Once I got there, and it was somewhat ahead of the time remuneration and authority went up, my sleep became easier.

I had far more on my plate than anybody could possibly take care of, than my team could take care of. I discussed it with my VP, and without explicitly saying so the solution was to selectively choose priorities to ignore. We couldn't accomplish all of them anyway, so I might as well be strategic about it.

PJW
Last edited by Phineas J. Whoopee on Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KlangFool
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by KlangFool » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:17 pm

OP,

(A) If you go to a shop and they are willing to sell X for $5, would you pay $6 instead?

You are paid $Y per hour. You are willing to work extra hours at $Y per hour. So, why should your boss gives you a pay raise and pay you more? It is exactly the same situation as (A).

You are a service business. You are selling your time for $Y per hour. Why would your customer (your employer) pay you more if you are willing to sell your time at $Y per hour? This is true even pass the normal 40 hours.

KlangFool

MathWizard
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by MathWizard » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:26 pm

Two options
1) Make a lateral move to another company where they may value you.

2) Get recognition for your new role. After a year or 2 you may able to
go to another company at a higher level since you have the experience.


I was told to take over for my boss who had been making 50% more
, but was given only a 5% raise. The group also went from 4 to 1 and a half (I was the one). I worked 80+ hours/week until I could get 2 people hired.

The next year I was moved up yet another level, again only a 5% raise, again no promotion in grade.

That same year, I received a company award , presented by the president at a meeting of the board of directors, for automation efficiencies improvements which saved the company millions of dollars over having to buy additional machinery.

My boss then changed, and in my first performance review, I included what I had done since I had taken over 2 years before. My new boss was quite impressed with what I had done, and wanted to promote me. I asked for a two level bump (I was now 2 levels higher in the org chart) and a 40% raise. I got the bump and 30%, but more importantly, more respect.

Had this not happened,I would have gone to another company, as I was now being contacted by recruiters for the position I am in now.

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:41 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:17 pm
OP,

(A) If you go to a shop and they are willing to sell X for $5, would you pay $6 instead?

You are paid $Y per hour. You are willing to work extra hours at $Y per hour. So, why should your boss gives you a pay raise and pay you more? It is exactly the same situation as (A).

You are a service business. You are selling your time for $Y per hour. Why would your customer (your employer) pay you more if you are willing to sell your time at $Y per hour? This is true even pass the normal 40 hours.

KlangFool
My situation, since college, has always been salaried.

I watched several promising first-time professionals get tripped up mistaking their jobs for hourly ones. 'Tweren't nothing I could do about it, sometimes.

An hourly person is paid to perform a task. A salaried person is paid to achieve an end.

I do not mean allow one's employer to steal one's labor. I do mean behave like a professional and be treated like one, or don't and don't.

PJW

HockeyFan99
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by HockeyFan99 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:17 am

HornedToad wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:05 pm

Prioritization is not deciding what to do first. It's deciding what to do never.
Lots of good advice here, but this is the best.

There is an infinite amount of work that could be done in every professional role I’ve ever seen. Once you accept that, and start choosing what to ignore (or delegate / assign to others if company does not want it ignored) you have a chance.

Also a believer in the “if you prove it the pay will follow” model.
"I'm spending a year dead for tax reasons." - Hotblack Desiato

KlangFool
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:42 am

alphacollector wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:54 pm
I wanted to get some feedback on this subject. At a recent weekly meeting, it was alluded to that myself and another person will soon be asked to take on alot of our direct bosses responsibilities since we are incredibly busy and his workload is more than he can handle. I have a pretty good feeling there will not be any additional compensation offered with this increased responsibility. I’m already working 13-15 hours of overtime every week.
alphacollector,

As far as I can tell, your boss is useless. If he cannot protect himself from overwork, what can he do for you? If your boss is so weak politically, he may not able to do anything for you in term of pay raise, promotion and so on. You should save yourself.

Do not negotiate with someone that has no power to say yes to you. It is a waste of time and energy.

KlangFool

stoptothink
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by stoptothink » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:01 am

alphacollector wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:17 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:02 pm
alphacollector wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:54 pm
I wanted to get some feedback on this subject. At a recent weekly meeting, it was alluded to that myself and another person will soon be asked to take on alot of our direct bosses responsibilities since we are incredibly busy and his workload is more than he can handle. I have a pretty good feeling there will not be any additional compensation offered with this increased responsibility. I’m already working 13-15 hours of overtime every week.

If you’ve ran across this situation how did you handle it? I really have no interest in changing jobs. My job is quite specialized and very secure. I have no doubts that I could say I’m not really interested in taking on any more work and not have any repercussions over it, but at the same time I don’t want to be looked at as a non-team player.

Advice?
alphacollector,

<<I’m already working 13-15 hours of overtime every week. >>

If you are willing to work for free, why should your employer let you work less? It is free labor.

It is very simple.

If you cannot say no to your employer, you will do more and more.

KlangFool

P.S.: This is very normal. Folks that cannot and do not say no will do more works.
I’m in the fortunate position that even though I’m salary, I do get straight time overtime, so I do get compensated for every hour over 40. And while this is nice, at some point enough work and responsibility is enough without a pay bump.
This is life. You are in a very fortunate position that you get overtime pay for an increased workload. I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me and never have I been compensated for extra work. My wife has 2 team members retiring in the next few months, their positions will not be replaced, the rest of the team members (primarily my wife, who is the most productive by a huge margin) will just take over their accounts with zero increase in pay. If you don't like it, you can always seek out employment elsewhere.

That all being said, if the increased workload really isn't possible, management will figure it out really fast. Do what you can do and don't worry about whether or not the rest is getting done.

dknightd
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by dknightd » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:20 am

I think this is in part why there is a perceived prejudice against older workers.
The reality is older workers have learned not to put up with this.
After many years on the job, most older workers will not tolerate more hours, more responsibility, for the same pay.
YMMV

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8foot7
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by 8foot7 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:21 am

Your key to remaining sane is to figure out what to delegate to the floor. Work smarter, not more.

Executives understand the key tasks that matter, the ones that make or break the bonus and the company, and the tasks that they’re willing to get yelled at for not completing but that otherwise have little impact on anything.

Analyze your work, look at your company’s goals, look at your own bonus metrics, and dump things that don’t directly or at least loosely advance those.

JoeRetire
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by JoeRetire » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:26 am

alphacollector wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:54 pm
If you’ve ran across this situation how did you handle it?
I took on the additional responsibilities, and dropped some low-priority tasks.

Eventually, I was promoted, with a big raise.
I really have no interest in changing jobs. My job is quite specialized and very secure. I have no doubts that I could say I’m not really interested in taking on any more work and not have any repercussions over it, but at the same time I don’t want to be looked at as a non-team player.
You say you have no doubts, yet at the same time you say you don't want to be looked at as not being a team player. Seems like some doubts to me.

We all get to decide what we will and won't do at work, how many hours we are willing to work, and what we are willing to do in order to get ahead.

Some folks (not you) are willing only to work the minimum required amount, for "work/life balance" reasons. Others are willing to work more. Everyone's situation is different.

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Sandtrap
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:36 am

alphacollector wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:54 pm
I wanted to get some feedback on this subject. At a recent weekly meeting, it was alluded to that myself and another person will soon be asked to take on alot of our direct bosses responsibilities since we are incredibly busy and his workload is more than he can handle. I have a pretty good feeling there will not be any additional compensation offered with this increased responsibility. I’m already working 13-15 hours of overtime every week.

If you’ve ran across this situation how did you handle it? I really have no interest in changing jobs. My job is quite specialized and very secure. I have no doubts that I could say I’m not really interested in taking on any more work and not have any repercussions over it, but at the same time I don’t want to be looked at as a non-team player.

Advice?
1 Consider it a "test run" for an eventual promotion, etc.
2 Be grateful for the opportunity. How many do not get that?
3 Step up to the plate. . . . hit it out of the park. . . show what you can do for the company and for the team.
4. The long term payoffs for doing this one thing are unknown. Nobody knows. Everyone has experiences. But, nobody knows.
5. You have nothing to lose by trying. You can always have a "talk" with your boss down the road if things don't work out. But. . . you "will be respected" for trying.

OTOH: if you turn it down, you might stick yourself into the "don't bother to ask", "leave him alone", "he's on his own", "eventually we'll get rid of him or put him in a permanent position that goes nowhere", category.

FWIW: often, those that look the most out for their own interests and no more get exactly what they expect.

j
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:38 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:36 am
alphacollector wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:54 pm
I wanted to get some feedback on this subject. At a recent weekly meeting, it was alluded to that myself and another person will soon be asked to take on alot of our direct bosses responsibilities since we are incredibly busy and his workload is more than he can handle. I have a pretty good feeling there will not be any additional compensation offered with this increased responsibility. I’m already working 13-15 hours of overtime every week.

If you’ve ran across this situation how did you handle it? I really have no interest in changing jobs. My job is quite specialized and very secure. I have no doubts that I could say I’m not really interested in taking on any more work and not have any repercussions over it, but at the same time I don’t want to be looked at as a non-team player.

Advice?
1 Consider it a "test run" for an eventual promotion, etc.
2 Be grateful for the opportunity. How many do not get that?
3 Step up to the plate. . . . hit it out of the park. . . show what you can do for the company and for the team.
4. The long term payoffs for doing this one thing are unknown. Nobody knows. Everyone has experiences. But, nobody knows.
5. You have nothing to lose by trying. You can always have a "talk" with your boss down the road if things don't work out. But. . . you "will be respected" for trying.

OTOH: if you turn it down, you might stick yourself into the "don't bother to ask", "leave him alone", "he's on his own", "eventually we'll get rid of him or put him in a permanent position that goes nowhere", category.

FWIW: often, those that look the most out for their own interests and no more get exactly what they expect.

j
+1000. My wife and I, in our careers, often took on additional responsibility without an immediate comp increase. Don't let the BH slant to anti-management, give me an additional dollar for doing additional work thinking limit you. There are occasionally abusive managers; when you find one, go work for another manager/company. Otoh, in our experience, we have benefited hugely from taking on additional responsibility. Next stage: identify and groom someone who works for you to take over your job.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

KlangFool
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:45 am

Folks,

For those that advise OP should work more, you should bear in mind that OP is working 53 to 55 hours per week now. OP will be asked to work even more than that by his/her boss. So far, working more does not help OP at all. He/she just ended up with more work at the same pay.

Please explain why do you believe that it is reasonable for a manager to ask someone to work much more than 53 to 55 hours per week.

KlangFool

joe3411
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by joe3411 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:49 am

I see this often and I routinely have coworkers that complain about working 10-15 hours a week in unpaid overtime. Most of the time, the extra work they're doing is not high visibility or a high priority. Consequently, they're not compensated in wages or in promotions. They're working for free and losing hours of their personal time with no payoff.
All of the KlangFool posts above are spot-on.

When I have been presented with additional work, I prioritize the important and high visibility tasks and dump the low visibility and low importance tasks. I also make it clear to management that the lesser tasks are not getting done in a timely manner due to my focus on other things.

I prioritize new high priority tasks while keeping my hours in check, and I am praised by management. The key is to excel at tasks that matter more.
Select coworkers focus on "everything" and get little to no praise. I view them as chumps who are stuck in front of the computer for more time than me.

Leemiller
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by Leemiller » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:51 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:38 am
Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:36 am
alphacollector wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:54 pm
I wanted to get some feedback on this subject. At a recent weekly meeting, it was alluded to that myself and another person will soon be asked to take on alot of our direct bosses responsibilities since we are incredibly busy and his workload is more than he can handle. I have a pretty good feeling there will not be any additional compensation offered with this increased responsibility. I’m already working 13-15 hours of overtime every week.

If you’ve ran across this situation how did you handle it? I really have no interest in changing jobs. My job is quite specialized and very secure. I have no doubts that I could say I’m not really interested in taking on any more work and not have any repercussions over it, but at the same time I don’t want to be looked at as a non-team player.

Advice?
1 Consider it a "test run" for an eventual promotion, etc.
2 Be grateful for the opportunity. How many do not get that?
3 Step up to the plate. . . . hit it out of the park. . . show what you can do for the company and for the team.
4. The long term payoffs for doing this one thing are unknown. Nobody knows. Everyone has experiences. But, nobody knows.
5. You have nothing to lose by trying. You can always have a "talk" with your boss down the road if things don't work out. But. . . you "will be respected" for trying.

OTOH: if you turn it down, you might stick yourself into the "don't bother to ask", "leave him alone", "he's on his own", "eventually we'll get rid of him or put him in a permanent position that goes nowhere", category.

FWIW: often, those that look the most out for their own interests and no more get exactly what they expect.

j
+1000. My wife and I, in our careers, often took on additional responsibility without an immediate comp increase. Don't let the BH slant to anti-management, give me an additional dollar for doing additional work thinking limit you. There are occasionally abusive managers; when you find one, go work for another manager/company. Otoh, in our experience, we have benefited hugely from taking on additional responsibility. Next stage: identify and groom someone who works for you to take over your job.
Agree. I’ve done more than others in every job I’ve had, including in the government. This led to better assignments, giving me a better resume for each progressive position. In my private sector job it lead to a nice promotion.

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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by yohac » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:06 pm

alphacollector wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:54 pm
I’m already working 13-15 hours of overtime every week.
...
I don’t want to be looked at as a non-team player.
Better a non-team player than a burned out martyr. It's nice that you get paid for those hours but as others have said, employers almost always keep piling on until you push back.

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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by JoeRetire » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:11 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:45 am
So far, working more does not help OP at all. He/she just ended up with more work at the same pay.
Hint: "I’m in the fortunate position that even though I’m salary, I do get straight time overtime, so I do get compensated for every hour over 40."

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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by JoeRetire » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:12 pm

yohac wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:06 pm
Better a non-team player than a burned out martyr.
Do you believe it's possible to work more than 40 hours per week without getting burned out?

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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by JoeRetire » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:17 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:36 am
1 Consider it a "test run" for an eventual promotion, etc.
2 Be grateful for the opportunity. How many do not get that?
3 Step up to the plate. . . . hit it out of the park. . . show what you can do for the company and for the team.
4. The long term payoffs for doing this one thing are unknown. Nobody knows. Everyone has experiences. But, nobody knows.
5. You have nothing to lose by trying. You can always have a "talk" with your boss down the road if things don't work out. But. . . you "will be respected" for trying.

OTOH: if you turn it down, you might stick yourself into the "don't bother to ask", "leave him alone", "he's on his own", "eventually we'll get rid of him or put him in a permanent position that goes nowhere", category.

FWIW: often, those that look the most out for their own interests and no more get exactly what they expect.

j
Yup.

Over the course of my career, I averaged 55 hours per week. When I was younger, I worked less. As my career advanced, I worked more - sometimes a lot more.

I liked to work hard, and I never complained. In the long run, I was usually rewarded.

As a manager, it was always easy to spot the workers who were just cruising, or would otherwise avoid working hard/extra. And it was always easy to spot the workers who were willing to take on the tough tasks and put in extra to get the job done. And thus it made deciding where to hand out the rewards, raises and promotions very easy.

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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:20 pm

I don’t know your work, OP, but often more responsibility also provides more control over how work gets done. You might find that with more control, you have the ability to make the process more effective/efficient and actually reduce the hours/effort required. And, as a side effect, management often looks upon that favorably.

This thread will devolve, as these topics usually do. OP, many of the posters have hit it out of the park professionally. I suggest listening to those that have.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by Zombies » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:43 pm

I find the tenor of these posts interesting (but not surprising). This is heavily industry-dependent. In many cases, taking on more responsibility, working more than 40 hours a week, is thankless and just a way for “the boss to push stuff downhill.”

In my industry, we _always_ give people more responsibility before we promote them — it’s called increased scope. Sometimes this means more hours worked, sometimes it doesn’t (if they’re efficient). But you get promoted based on the work you’ve already done, not the work you’re about to do. So you have to prove that you can handle more responsibility before you move up the food chain.

The compensation changes are so large as you move up that for many people, the additional work / time is an investment in their personal development and future. For others who want to remain where they are and maintain their current workload, that is completely fine, and they can decline the new projects/roles/responsibilities. No one thinks less of them, and they don’t get pushed out or fired because of that. They just aren’t going to become a Director, or VP, etc. Great! Their priorities are straight.

If you want to continue moving up at your place, you should take the new role and immediately seek out efficiencies to keep or decrease your work load, or ask for headcount that reports to you so you can begin scaling yourself. But simply being asked to do more is a great thing, not a terrible thing.

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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by Traveler » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:51 pm

joe3411 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:49 am
I see this often and I routinely have coworkers that complain about working 10-15 hours a week in unpaid overtime. Most of the time, the extra work they're doing is not high visibility or a high priority. Consequently, they're not compensated in wages or in promotions. They're working for free and losing hours of their personal time with no payoff.
All of the KlangFool posts above are spot-on.

When I have been presented with additional work, I prioritize the important and high visibility tasks and dump the low visibility and low importance tasks. I also make it clear to management that the lesser tasks are not getting done in a timely manner due to my focus on other things.

I prioritize new high priority tasks while keeping my hours in check, and I am praised by management. The key is to excel at tasks that matter more.
Select coworkers focus on "everything" and get little to no praise. I view them as chumps who are stuck in front of the computer for more time than me.
This is great except when you leave your undone work mess for someone else to clean up. There is a guy at work who put himself on a pedestal and his boss and boss's boss elevated that pedestal. What they didn't notice or care to notice was that he wasn't doing about 25% of his job responsibilities. Why? Because that part of his job was low visibility that didn't get him in front of VPs, etc. Fast forward a few months and he has moved on to another position and that 25% of the the job he wasn't doing blows up, impacts the rest of us and is left for someone else to clean up. Of course nobody wants to blame the other guy who wasn't doing his job because he is a "high potential" employee who apparently excels at everything....until he doesn't.

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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:56 pm

Zombies wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:43 pm
I find the tenor of these posts interesting (but not surprising). This is heavily industry-dependent. In many cases, taking on more responsibility, working more than 40 hours a week, is thankless and just a way for “the boss to push stuff downhill.”

In my industry, we _always_ give people more responsibility before we promote them — it’s called increased scope. Sometimes this means more hours worked, sometimes it doesn’t (if they’re efficient). But you get promoted based on the work you’ve already done, not the work you’re about to do. So you have to prove that you can handle more responsibility before you move up the food chain.

The compensation changes are so large as you move up that for many people, the additional work / time is an investment in their personal development and future. For others who want to remain where they are and maintain their current workload, that is completely fine, and they can decline the new projects/roles/responsibilities. No one thinks less of them, and they don’t get pushed out or fired because of that. They just aren’t going to become a Director, or VP, etc. Great! Their priorities are straight.

If you want to continue moving up at your place, you should take the new role and immediately seek out efficiencies to keep or decrease your work load, or ask for headcount that reports to you so you can begin scaling yourself. But simply being asked to do more is a great thing, not a terrible thing.
+100000
j

Things change over time:
A story:

All too many decades ago, I has an unwritten policy in my company that anyone who wanted to learn more and move up for more pay could do so, if they put in the time to learn and work first. I was happy to teach and mentor. Those that wanted to give it a try, tried it and were glad, though many did not have the ambition or enough desire to do what was needed.
For many years, the response was, "great! glad for the opportunity" with no question of increase pay right away.
As time passed, maybe in the 80-90's, or later, can't remember. Attitudes changed to, "how much are you going to pay me to do this?" (sort of like, "if you want me to work harder, then pay me more, otherwise I'll do the minimum."
That later attitude became more common, even amongst people I knew closely for many years. More subjective vs appreciative.
Times have changed.
j
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:09 pm

Traveler wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:51 pm

This is great except when you leave your undone work mess for someone else to clean up. There is a guy at work who put himself on a pedestal and his boss and boss's boss elevated that pedestal. What they didn't notice or care to notice was that he wasn't doing about 25% of his job responsibilities. Why? Because that part of his job was low visibility that didn't get him in front of VPs, etc. Fast forward a few months and he has moved on to another position and that 25% of the the job he wasn't doing blows up, impacts the rest of us and is left for someone else to clean up. Of course nobody wants to blame the other guy who wasn't doing his job because he is a "high potential" employee who apparently excels at everything....until he doesn't.
Traveler,

And what is wrong with that? If you want to blame someone, blame the VP. He who has the gold makes the rule. He knows how to play the game and he maximizes his earning and promotion potential with his effort.

<<impacts the rest of us and is left for someone else to clean up. >>

Which does not matter to him and/or the VP.

<<Of course nobody wants to blame the other guy who wasn't doing his job because he is a "high potential" employee who apparently excels at everything>>

Which proves the point that it does not matter.

KlangFool

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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:12 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:56 pm
Zombies wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:43 pm
I find the tenor of these posts interesting (but not surprising). This is heavily industry-dependent. In many cases, taking on more responsibility, working more than 40 hours a week, is thankless and just a way for “the boss to push stuff downhill.”

In my industry, we _always_ give people more responsibility before we promote them — it’s called increased scope. Sometimes this means more hours worked, sometimes it doesn’t (if they’re efficient). But you get promoted based on the work you’ve already done, not the work you’re about to do. So you have to prove that you can handle more responsibility before you move up the food chain.

The compensation changes are so large as you move up that for many people, the additional work / time is an investment in their personal development and future. For others who want to remain where they are and maintain their current workload, that is completely fine, and they can decline the new projects/roles/responsibilities. No one thinks less of them, and they don’t get pushed out or fired because of that. They just aren’t going to become a Director, or VP, etc. Great! Their priorities are straight.

If you want to continue moving up at your place, you should take the new role and immediately seek out efficiencies to keep or decrease your work load, or ask for headcount that reports to you so you can begin scaling yourself. But simply being asked to do more is a great thing, not a terrible thing.
+100000
j

Things change over time:
A story:

All too many decades ago, I has an unwritten policy in my company that anyone who wanted to learn more and move up for more pay could do so, if they put in the time to learn and work first. I was happy to teach and mentor. Those that wanted to give it a try, tried it and were glad, though many did not have the ambition or enough desire to do what was needed.
For many years, the response was, "great! glad for the opportunity" with no question of increase pay right away.
As time passed, maybe in the 80-90's, or later, can't remember. Attitudes changed to, "how much are you going to pay me to do this?" (sort of like, "if you want me to work harder, then pay me more, otherwise I'll do the minimum."
That later attitude became more common, even amongst people I knew closely for many years. More subjective vs appreciative.
Times have changed.
j
Sandtrap,

Do you think that it is reasonable to ask OP that is working 53 to 55 hours per week now to work a lot more hours? If yes, what is your limit in asking the employee to work more hours? 80 hours per week? 100 hours per week?

KlangFool

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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:19 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:12 pm
Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:56 pm
Zombies wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:43 pm
I find the tenor of these posts interesting (but not surprising). This is heavily industry-dependent. In many cases, taking on more responsibility, working more than 40 hours a week, is thankless and just a way for “the boss to push stuff downhill.”

In my industry, we _always_ give people more responsibility before we promote them — it’s called increased scope. Sometimes this means more hours worked, sometimes it doesn’t (if they’re efficient). But you get promoted based on the work you’ve already done, not the work you’re about to do. So you have to prove that you can handle more responsibility before you move up the food chain.

The compensation changes are so large as you move up that for many people, the additional work / time is an investment in their personal development and future. For others who want to remain where they are and maintain their current workload, that is completely fine, and they can decline the new projects/roles/responsibilities. No one thinks less of them, and they don’t get pushed out or fired because of that. They just aren’t going to become a Director, or VP, etc. Great! Their priorities are straight.

If you want to continue moving up at your place, you should take the new role and immediately seek out efficiencies to keep or decrease your work load, or ask for headcount that reports to you so you can begin scaling yourself. But simply being asked to do more is a great thing, not a terrible thing.
+100000
j

Things change over time:
A story:

All too many decades ago, I has an unwritten policy in my company that anyone who wanted to learn more and move up for more pay could do so, if they put in the time to learn and work first. I was happy to teach and mentor. Those that wanted to give it a try, tried it and were glad, though many did not have the ambition or enough desire to do what was needed.
For many years, the response was, "great! glad for the opportunity" with no question of increase pay right away.
As time passed, maybe in the 80-90's, or later, can't remember. Attitudes changed to, "how much are you going to pay me to do this?" (sort of like, "if you want me to work harder, then pay me more, otherwise I'll do the minimum."
That later attitude became more common, even amongst people I knew closely for many years. More subjective vs appreciative.
Times have changed.
j
Sandtrap,

Do you think that it is reasonable to ask OP that is working 53 to 55 hours per week now to work a lot more hours? If yes, what is your limit in asking the employee to work more hours? 80 hours per week? 100 hours per week?

KlangFool
+1
Yes. Great points.

I think the OP should have a sit down with the boss. Explain that he'd like to take advantage of the opportunity given. But, would need some help with the added time demands. If the boss is reasonable, he might shift some existing job demands or give authorization for that, and then replace with the higher level responsibilities. Hopefully, a relationship like that can be established at the get-go. One side appreciative for the opportunity, the other for the effort and sincerity and ambition.

If there's no opportunity for this kind of sincere cooperative mutual dialogue, then perhaps it's not a good thing to do.

OTOH: there are those that put in 80+ hours a week in professional careers, or when building a career or business. Everyone's different.
j
Last edited by Sandtrap on Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fortyofforty
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by fortyofforty » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:42 pm

alphacollector wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:17 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:02 pm
alphacollector wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:54 pm
I wanted to get some feedback on this subject. At a recent weekly meeting, it was alluded to that myself and another person will soon be asked to take on alot of our direct bosses responsibilities since we are incredibly busy and his workload is more than he can handle. I have a pretty good feeling there will not be any additional compensation offered with this increased responsibility. I’m already working 13-15 hours of overtime every week.

If you’ve ran across this situation how did you handle it? I really have no interest in changing jobs. My job is quite specialized and very secure. I have no doubts that I could say I’m not really interested in taking on any more work and not have any repercussions over it, but at the same time I don’t want to be looked at as a non-team player.

Advice?
alphacollector,

<<I’m already working 13-15 hours of overtime every week. >>

If you are willing to work for free, why should your employer let you work less? It is free labor.

It is very simple.

If you cannot say no to your employer, you will do more and more.

KlangFool

P.S.: This is very normal. Folks that cannot and do not say no will do more works.
I’m in the fortunate position that even though I’m salary, I do get straight time overtime, so I do get compensated for every hour over 40. And while this is nice, at some point enough work and responsibility is enough without a pay bump.
This is a simple case of supply and demand, in my opinion. If you believe you are worth more money or should work less, threaten to leave if the company doesn't pony up more money or reduce your hours. If management refuses, leave. You should be able to find another job with fewer hours and less responsibility. If not, your calculation was wrong and you weren't worth more money. I'm not trying to be flippant, only point out that things aren't as simple as some here suggest. Refusing isn't always easy or practicable.

Also, there is the consideration of the success and survival of the company. If you refuse to work more, will that have a detrimental effect on the company? Will it cause the company to be less competitive, maybe have to outsource jobs overseas or hire newer employees who demand less money? If the company closes, everybody loses, including you.
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by prudent » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:44 pm

I don't think I'd seem like a team player by saying the equivalent of "You need some extra help? OK, I'm going to cut back to no more than 40 hours." But it is unnecessary to work any more hours than you already are.

Been in that situation twice, and I used different approaches because the managers I had at those times were very different.

Manager A was a workaholic and prided himself on keeping his headcount low (this helped the metrics he was measured on). We were all working extra hours. But in his mind, a 50-hour week was "expected" of "professionals" in our job (overtime was unpaid). When he proposed I take on a new responsibility, I said I was happy to do it, but I could not work more hours and maintain the quality of results that was required of a professional. I said I knew he would not be satisfied with mediocre performance that would reflect badly on our team. He was backed into a corner - I was concerned about the team and how we would look, and I had pride in my "professionalism", a word he loved to use as a stick. We agreed I could stop doing something that was a mundane report to other VPs unless someone complained about not getting the report - and no one did.

Manager B was ALL about the team, high morale, everyone should be happy. He asked me to do something extra because it was a good match for my background. This time I suggested we brainstorm as a group how we could maybe move around some responsibilities among more people, saying we might find some people very eager to do certain things and nobody would feel like they had more work being piled on them - and it would give other people a chance to develop new skills. He liked that idea and during the group discussion some assignments got switched around, and a number of things that were being done were put on a list where they would be studied for their usefulness (or lack of). That worked out pretty well, some of them got dropped.

If I could not have worked out something, my bottom line would have been "I want to contribute to the best of my abilities and make the best use of my time, but I cannot work more hours and be effective/maintain quality results" and see where it goes from there. There is almost always some things being done out of habit or inertia that could be stopped or scaled back. I would want to make clear I am ready to help as much as I can but more hours is not an option. I'd surely go in to a discussion armed with ideas on how I could reprioritize some things to take on the new things and what could be eliminated or scaled back. When review time comes, I'll have ammo to use to justify an increase/lobby for a promotion.

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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by Random Poster » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:54 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:56 pm
For many years, the response was, "great! glad for the opportunity" with no question of increase pay right away.
As time passed, maybe in the 80-90's, or later, can't remember. Attitudes changed to, "how much are you going to pay me to do this?" (sort of like, "if you want me to work harder, then pay me more, otherwise I'll do the minimum."
That later attitude became more common, even amongst people I knew closely for many years. More subjective vs appreciative.
Times have changed.
j
Perhaps times have changed because companies show no loyalty to the workers, and the workers know it.

Why work harder with no assurance of any pay increase or job security? From the employee’s perspective, the company is going to lay me off anyway the moment the company has a bad quarter (which is largely due to the actions of the execs and not the worker, despite the execs’ statements otherwise), so what is the point?

Companies want a transactional relationship, where they control and dictate all of the terms. They shouldn’t be surprised when the employees reciprocate.

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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by bengal22 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:07 pm

I was a salaried employee. I did not feel I had a 40 hour job. I always tried to excel at job by working extra hours and I wanted to take on more responsibility. It paid off by getting better raises then clock watchers and by getting better promotions. OP I would look for a different job that allowed you to do your thing. But others are right in saying you have to self prioritize to keep your sanity.

We had click watchers but they got zero or low raises because they were not interested in growing professionally.
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:15 pm

Random Poster wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:54 pm
Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:56 pm
For many years, the response was, "great! glad for the opportunity" with no question of increase pay right away.
As time passed, maybe in the 80-90's, or later, can't remember. Attitudes changed to, "how much are you going to pay me to do this?" (sort of like, "if you want me to work harder, then pay me more, otherwise I'll do the minimum."
That later attitude became more common, even amongst people I knew closely for many years. More subjective vs appreciative.
Times have changed.
j
Perhaps times have changed because companies show no loyalty to the workers, and the workers know it.

Why work harder with no assurance of any pay increase or job security? From the employee’s perspective, the company is going to lay me off anyway the moment the company has a bad quarter (which is largely due to the actions of the execs and not the worker, despite the execs’ statements otherwise), so what is the point?

Companies want a transactional relationship, where they control and dictate all of the terms. They shouldn’t be surprised when the employees reciprocate.
Good points.
I agree.
Small business vs corporate.
Dynamics have changed.
j
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:26 pm

bengal22 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:07 pm
I was a salaried employee. I did not feel I had a 40 hour job. I always tried to excel at job by working extra hours and I wanted to take on more responsibility. It paid off by getting better raises then clock watchers and by getting better promotions. OP I would look for a different job that allowed you to do your thing. But others are right in saying you have to self prioritize to keep your sanity.

We had click watchers but they got zero or low raises because they were not interested in growing professionally.
bengal22,

If you are working 53 to 55 hours per week now. And, your manager asks you to work even more hours, would you say yes? That is the topic at hand. It is not about working more than 40 hours per week. It is about working beyond 53 to 55 hours per week.

KlangFool

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alphacollector
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by alphacollector » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:26 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:26 pm
bengal22 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:07 pm
I was a salaried employee. I did not feel I had a 40 hour job. I always tried to excel at job by working extra hours and I wanted to take on more responsibility. It paid off by getting better raises then clock watchers and by getting better promotions. OP I would look for a different job that allowed you to do your thing. But others are right in saying you have to self prioritize to keep your sanity.

We had click watchers but they got zero or low raises because they were not interested in growing professionally.
bengal22,

If you are working 53 to 55 hours per week now. And, your manager asks you to work even more hours, would you say yes? That is the topic at hand. It is not about working more than 40 hours per week. It is about working beyond 53 to 55 hours per week.

KlangFool
Thanks all for the replies. Yes, Klang is right. Ultimately the increase in the amount of hours that’s going to be asked of me to work without additional compensation is the problem for me. I’m married with a couple of younger kids and having a home life is important to me. In fact, when the future conversation about taking on additional responsibilities comes up, I’m going to make a point in saying I’m actually looking to reduce the hours I’m working, not add even more.

Delegating almost any of the work I currently do isn’t an option because there is no one to delegate it to that has the technical expertise to do it. I’m in an engineering profession (PE) that requires years of on the job training (10-15) to understand all the hundreds of different little things that are required to develop a set of plans, which are what we ultimately deliver to our clients. We have several younger engineers that I help manage, but they just don’t have the time in yet to understand how to do everything that needs to be done. And it’s apparently pretty difficult to find another experienced person to hire as we’ve had a job opening for such a person for over a year. Apparently the one person that was interested/qualified wanted more money than the company was willling to pay.
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? - Mark 8:36

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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by prudent » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:59 pm

With the above in mind, I would propose subcontracting some work. Could you suggest to your management the names of some firms that might be able to help? My previous company did that on occasion, also in a very specialized field of engineering. It meant giving some work to smaller competitors, and someone had to manage the subcontracting relationship, and having lower margins on that work, but it enabled us to continue to bid and win work without scrambling to hire people who were just about impossible to find.

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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:23 pm

alphacollector wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:26 pm

And it’s apparently pretty difficult to find another experienced person to hire as we’ve had a job opening for such a person for over a year. Apparently the one person that was interested/qualified wanted more money than the company was willling to pay.
alphacollector,

You are the source of this problem.

A) If you are willing to work extra hours at your current pay rate, why should your employer hire a new person at a higher rate?

B) This proves to us that you are not paid at the market rate. If not, there should be no problem paying the new guy since it would be at the same rate that they are paying for your extra hours.

KlangFool

thx1138
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Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:14 pm

Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by thx1138 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:25 pm

Based on your most recent post it seems like the correct solution for the company is not to offload management stuff to you since they are already short of your skill set and apparently aren’t willing to pay enough to increase their access to that skill set. Your niche expertise is harder to find than managers apparently. So if you do in fact want to stay on your PE duties rather than head into management sell it to them that way. Go find someone else - external if necessary - to pick up management stuff from your boss. Keep your PE skill directed where it is apparently needed.

I’ve seen this more than once where a company stupidly wastes the time of a difficult to hire niche expert on things a thousand different middle managers could do. The opportunity cost of a niche expert’s time is extremely high.

(Apologies if I misinterpreted the situation).

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bengal22
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Location: Ohio

Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by bengal22 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:25 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:26 pm
bengal22 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:07 pm
I was a salaried employee. I did not feel I had a 40 hour job. I always tried to excel at job by working extra hours and I wanted to take on more responsibility. It paid off by getting better raises then clock watchers and by getting better promotions. OP I would look for a different job that allowed you to do your thing. But others are right in saying you have to self prioritize to keep your sanity.

We had click watchers but they got zero or low raises because they were not interested in growing professionally.
bengal22,

If you are working 53 to 55 hours per week now. And, your manager asks you to work even more hours, would you say yes? That is the topic at hand. It is not about working more than 40 hours per week. It is about working beyond 53 to 55 hours per week.

KlangFool
So I went back and read OP and some of the other comments later. OP said it was alluded that they may have to work more hours. What does that even mean? OP also said that he was getting paid for extra hours over 40. I just feel like to be successful you have to do what the job requires, you need to make a positive difference, and you shouldn't feel like you owe the company "x" number of hours. As a manager, I wouldn't want some of the posters in this thread. Do what the job needs or seek other employment.
"Earn All You Can; Give All You Can; Save All You Can." .... John Wesley

KlangFool
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Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:37 pm

bengal22 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:25 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:26 pm
bengal22 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:07 pm
I was a salaried employee. I did not feel I had a 40 hour job. I always tried to excel at job by working extra hours and I wanted to take on more responsibility. It paid off by getting better raises then clock watchers and by getting better promotions. OP I would look for a different job that allowed you to do your thing. But others are right in saying you have to self prioritize to keep your sanity.

We had click watchers but they got zero or low raises because they were not interested in growing professionally.
bengal22,

If you are working 53 to 55 hours per week now. And, your manager asks you to work even more hours, would you say yes? That is the topic at hand. It is not about working more than 40 hours per week. It is about working beyond 53 to 55 hours per week.

KlangFool
So I went back and read OP and some of the other comments later. OP said it was alluded that they may have to work more hours. What does that even mean? OP also said that he was getting paid for extra hours over 40. I just feel like to be successful you have to do what the job requires, you need to make a positive difference, and you shouldn't feel like you owe the company "x" number of hours. As a manager, I wouldn't want some of the posters in this thread.
bengal22,

OP is working 53 to 55 hours per week now. Work more hours mean OP has to work more than 53 to 55 hours per week. So, back to my question.

If your boss asks you to work more hours beyond 53 to 55 hours per week, would you say yes? If you say yes, what is your limit? 60 hours per week? 80 hours per week? 100 hours per week?

<<As a manager, I wouldn't want some of the posters in this thread. >>

As a manager, should you ask your employee to work 60 hours per week? 80 hours per week? 100 hours per week?

KlangFool

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bengal22
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:20 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: No pay increase but increase in responsibility

Post by bengal22 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:44 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:37 pm
bengal22 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:25 pm
KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:26 pm
bengal22 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:07 pm
I was a salaried employee. I did not feel I had a 40 hour job. I always tried to excel at job by working extra hours and I wanted to take on more responsibility. It paid off by getting better raises then clock watchers and by getting better promotions. OP I would look for a different job that allowed you to do your thing. But others are right in saying you have to self prioritize to keep your sanity.

We had click watchers but they got zero or low raises because they were not interested in growing professionally.
bengal22,

If you are working 53 to 55 hours per week now. And, your manager asks you to work even more hours, would you say yes? That is the topic at hand. It is not about working more than 40 hours per week. It is about working beyond 53 to 55 hours per week.

KlangFool
So I went back and read OP and some of the other comments later. OP said it was alluded that they may have to work more hours. What does that even mean? OP also said that he was getting paid for extra hours over 40. I just feel like to be successful you have to do what the job requires, you need to make a positive difference, and you shouldn't feel like you owe the company "x" number of hours. As a manager, I wouldn't want some of the posters in this thread.
bengal22,

OP is working 53 to 55 hours per week now. Work more hours mean OP has to work more than 53 to 55 hours per week. So, back to my question.

If your boss asks you to work more hours beyond 53 to 55 hours per week, would you say yes? If you say yes, what is your limit? 60 hours per week? 80 hours per week? 100 hours per week?

<<As a manager, I wouldn't want some of the posters in this thread. >>

As a manager, should you ask your employee to work 60 hours per week? 80 hours per week? 100 hours per week?

KlangFool
Boss didn't ask him to work more hours. It was alluded to him and unspecified others that he may get more responsibility. That doesn't always equate to more hours. Managers should grow their employees by giving them more responsibility. I am clueless where the 60 80 100 hours is coming from.
"Earn All You Can; Give All You Can; Save All You Can." .... John Wesley

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