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Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:14 am
by CULater
Here's an interesting article for those of us growing old without potential family caregivers:
Many people won’t have children to look after them as they age, either because they didn’t have kids or the ones they have aren’t available or reliable. Without that help, they face greater risks of isolation, financial exploitation, malnutrition and other ills, says Geber, author of “Essential Retirement Planning for Solo Agers.”

Who will let them know when it’s time to stop driving? Who will notice signs of physical or cognitive decline and find appropriate help? Who will pay their bills, vet their financial advisers and monitor their bank accounts? Who will hire and supervise caretakers or research nursing facilities when they can no longer care for themselves?

Step 1: Build a community
Step 2: Choose your home carefully
Step 3: Enlist or hire your future guardians

Geber urges solo agers to take care of these tasks without delay. A health crisis or other disaster could upend their lives and they won’t have an adult child to help sort things out

“The biggest problem I see for solo agers and all baby boomers is the denial” of what aging can bring, Geber says. “Open your eyes, do some planning.”
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-w ... ealestate

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:31 am
by ionball
Thanks for sharing this important topic. Health problems have a way of sneaking up as we age and cognitive decline can be a very challenging problem.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:32 am
by Sandtrap
ionball wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:31 am
Thanks for sharing this important topic. Health problems have a way of sneaking up as we age and cognitive decline can be a very challenging problem.
+1
Yes.
I have both.
What was the question, again?
:oops:

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:42 am
by fposte
I am, but this seems like standard Marketwatch content farming, where basically they put up a PR release as an article.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:42 am
by Dude2
Alexa will always be there for me.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:18 am
by earlyout
Another recent bit addressing the same issue.

https://www.nextavenue.org/solo-agers-f ... PnubeY3qEM

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:47 am
by CULater
earlyout wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:18 am
Another recent bit addressing the same issue.

https://www.nextavenue.org/solo-agers-f ... PnubeY3qEM
Thanks. Article deals with selecting a fiduciary for solo agers. Really seems like a daunting process. Can anyone actually do this?

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:00 am
by visualguy
CULater wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:47 am
earlyout wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:18 am
Another recent bit addressing the same issue.

https://www.nextavenue.org/solo-agers-f ... PnubeY3qEM
Thanks. Article deals with selecting a fiduciary for solo agers. Really seems like a daunting process. Can anyone actually do this?
Seems like a hopeless situation to me.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:57 am
by Swansea
I'm currently updating my Durable Power of Attorney and Advanced Medical Directive documents. They seem to overlap/duplicate the fiduciary responsibilities to a fair degree.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:27 pm
by mariezzz
If you have only one child, this unfortunately could also become a factor if that child dies, esp. if that child did not have children, or had children will still be fairly young when this becomes an issue for you.

I have a family member who had one son who died unexpectedly a few years ago. Now that person is relying on another family member to take on power of attorney and medical decision making for him and his wife when he no longer can make those decisions. Luckily, there is another trusted family member who is willing to take this responsibility on.

Seems like this is an important step if you have to hire someone as a fiduciary (from OP's link)
Appoint a trust protector.

That is someone who can “look over the shoulder” of the fiduciary, and has the power to fire them if necessary. A trust protector is someone who could receive my medical reports and financial statements as well as monitor the performance and fees of the fiduciary.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:57 pm
by GerryL
CULater wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:47 am
earlyout wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:18 am
Another recent bit addressing the same issue.

https://www.nextavenue.org/solo-agers-f ... PnubeY3qEM
Thanks. Article deals with selecting a fiduciary for solo agers. Really seems like a daunting process. Can anyone actually do this?
I'm working on this problem. Have been reading books and collecting information. Plan to finally set up time with an attorney specializing in elder issues in the Fall. And I've joined and become active with an age-in-place "village" to make sure I have some support nearby when needed.
After reviewing a bunch of books, I bought "Essential Retirement Planning for Solo Agers" by Sara Geber, who is apparently referenced in the linked article.

Finding a fiduciary seems to be the stickiest problem. I have asked my nephew, who lives in another state, if he would be willing to be part of a team effort to make sure it is not all in the hands of strangers.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:02 pm
by CULater
GerryL wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:57 pm
CULater wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:47 am
earlyout wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:18 am
Another recent bit addressing the same issue.

https://www.nextavenue.org/solo-agers-f ... PnubeY3qEM
Thanks. Article deals with selecting a fiduciary for solo agers. Really seems like a daunting process. Can anyone actually do this?
I'm working on this problem. Have been reading books and collecting information. Plan to finally set up time with an attorney specializing in elder issues in the Fall. And I've joined and become active with an age-in-place "village" to make sure I have some support nearby when needed.
After reviewing a bunch of books, I bought "Essential Retirement Planning for Solo Agers" by Sara Geber, who is apparently referenced in the linked article.

Finding a fiduciary seems to be the stickiest problem. I have asked my nephew, who lives in another state, if he would be willing to be part of a team effort to make sure it is not all in the hands of strangers.
Do you find the book useful? I notice a couple of others on this topic as well on Amazon.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:12 pm
by GerryL
CULater wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:02 pm
GerryL wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:57 pm
CULater wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:47 am
earlyout wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:18 am
Another recent bit addressing the same issue.

https://www.nextavenue.org/solo-agers-f ... PnubeY3qEM
Thanks. Article deals with selecting a fiduciary for solo agers. Really seems like a daunting process. Can anyone actually do this?
I'm working on this problem. Have been reading books and collecting information. Plan to finally set up time with an attorney specializing in elder issues in the Fall. And I've joined and become active with an age-in-place "village" to make sure I have some support nearby when needed.
After reviewing a bunch of books, I bought "Essential Retirement Planning for Solo Agers" by Sara Geber, who is apparently referenced in the linked article.

Finding a fiduciary seems to be the stickiest problem. I have asked my nephew, who lives in another state, if he would be willing to be part of a team effort to make sure it is not all in the hands of strangers.
Do you find the book useful? I notice a couple of others on this topic as well on Amazon.
Well, of all the titles I checked out of the library, this was the only one I felt compelled to buy. Bought it along with the Nolo "Get It Together" volume subtitled: Organize Your Records So Your Family Won't Have To. Next steps on this project won't commence until I return from end-of-summer travels.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:59 pm
by tibbitts
mariezzz wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:27 pm
If you have only one child, this unfortunately could also become a factor if that child dies, esp. if that child did not have children, or had children will still be fairly young when this becomes an issue for you.

I have a family member who had one son who died unexpectedly a few years ago. Now that person is relying on another family member to take on power of attorney and medical decision making for him and his wife when he no longer can make those decisions. Luckily, there is another trusted family member who is willing to take this responsibility on.

Seems like this is an important step if you have to hire someone as a fiduciary (from OP's link)
Appoint a trust protector.

That is someone who can “look over the shoulder” of the fiduciary, and has the power to fire them if necessary. A trust protector is someone who could receive my medical reports and financial statements as well as monitor the performance and fees of the fiduciary.
It's true that once you have found one person to deal with everything and trust them to always be there for you if they can, then you start thinking about the problem of them possibly not being able to be there. In my case the age difference is only 22.3 years, plus maybe another year or two for the life expectancy differences between men and women, so call it 23. Luckily I just had a heart scan this week and have moved into the high risk category, so maybe my odds of ending up alone have decreased.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:28 am
by 123
Dude2 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:42 am
Alexa will always be there for me.
As long as you can remember her name.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:37 am
by AerialWombat
123 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:28 am
Dude2 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:42 am
Alexa will always be there for me.
As long as you can remember her name.
This might not be a joke soon. Robotic assistive care is already in the testing stages, and I for one am effectively counting on that technology in case I live beyond my expected expiration date of 65.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:44 am
by smectym
There are tragic situations. However, there is a lot of marketing of “cognitive decline,” and as we age we’ll find relatives ( some disinterested but others with an agenda), medical professsionals, and financial advisors or would-be advisors seeking to pry control of assets away from the earners of those assets. Without in any way minimizing the problem, I’d also counsel a healthy degree of skepticism. If you have been handling money for decades, you’re not likely to either suddenly (or, in many cases, even “gradually,” or ever before death) become incompetent to make reasonable decisions about asset allocation and disposition.

The default: stay in control. The law is on your side.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:47 am
by tooluser
Robots will likely be able to deliver a better simulation of care than humans. Looking forward to them.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:31 am
by visualguy
smectym wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:44 am
If you have been handling money for decades, you’re not likely to either suddenly (or, in many cases, even “gradually,” or ever before death) become incompetent to make reasonable decisions about asset allocation and disposition.
Alzheimer's isn't rare, unfortunately. If you get it, you absolutely lose with time your ability to manage money among most or all other things.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:53 am
by GerryL
smectym wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:44 am
There are tragic situations. However, there is a lot of marketing of “cognitive decline,” and as we age we’ll find relatives ( some disinterested but others with an agenda), medical professsionals, and financial advisors or would-be advisors seeking to pry control of assets away from the earners of those assets. Without in any way minimizing the problem, I’d also counsel a healthy degree of skepticism. If you have been handling money for decades, you’re not likely to either suddenly (or, in many cases, even “gradually,” or ever before death) become incompetent to make reasonable decisions about asset allocation and disposition.

The default: stay in control. The law is on your side.
Spoken with the conviction of someone who has never had to deal with the cognitive decline of a close friend or relative.
Having seen what happened to my mother*, I am committed to arranging my affairs so that I can manage as long as possible and then, if necessary, hand off financial affairs to a trusted team. Establishing that trusted team is the hard part.

* She went from someone who could program an old VHS recorder to someone who did not understand how to change the channels on her tv.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:58 am
by CULater
GerryL wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:53 am
smectym wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:44 am
There are tragic situations. However, there is a lot of marketing of “cognitive decline,” and as we age we’ll find relatives ( some disinterested but others with an agenda), medical professsionals, and financial advisors or would-be advisors seeking to pry control of assets away from the earners of those assets. Without in any way minimizing the problem, I’d also counsel a healthy degree of skepticism. If you have been handling money for decades, you’re not likely to either suddenly (or, in many cases, even “gradually,” or ever before death) become incompetent to make reasonable decisions about asset allocation and disposition.

The default: stay in control. The law is on your side.
Spoken with the conviction of someone who has never had to deal with the cognitive decline of a close friend or relative.
Having seen what happened to my mother*, I am committed to arranging my affairs so that I can manage as long as possible and then, if necessary, hand off financial affairs to a trusted team. Establishing that trusted team is the hard part.

* She went from someone who could program an old VHS recorder to someone who did not understand how to change the channels on her tv.
Likewise with my mother, who is still living at 102 and has suffered from dementia since her mid-late 80s. Without my sister and myself I can't imagine how she would have fared. I have no children to see me through this "tail risk" scenario, so have to figure out how to take care of myself before I can no longer take care of myself.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:18 am
by cherijoh
GerryL wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:12 pm
CULater wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:02 pm
GerryL wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:57 pm
CULater wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:47 am
earlyout wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:18 am
Another recent bit addressing the same issue.

https://www.nextavenue.org/solo-agers-f ... PnubeY3qEM
Thanks. Article deals with selecting a fiduciary for solo agers. Really seems like a daunting process. Can anyone actually do this?
I'm working on this problem. Have been reading books and collecting information. Plan to finally set up time with an attorney specializing in elder issues in the Fall. And I've joined and become active with an age-in-place "village" to make sure I have some support nearby when needed.
After reviewing a bunch of books, I bought "Essential Retirement Planning for Solo Agers" by Sara Geber, who is apparently referenced in the linked article.

Finding a fiduciary seems to be the stickiest problem. I have asked my nephew, who lives in another state, if he would be willing to be part of a team effort to make sure it is not all in the hands of strangers.
Do you find the book useful? I notice a couple of others on this topic as well on Amazon.
Well, of all the titles I checked out of the library, this was the only one I felt compelled to buy. Bought it along with the Nolo "Get It Together" volume subtitled: Organize Your Records So Your Family Won't Have To. Next steps on this project won't commence until I return from end-of-summer travels.
Thanks for the recommendation. I just downloaded the Geber book to my kindle from my library's app to check out before I buy. I also requested the Nolo book when it is available.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:55 am
by F150HD
123 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:28 am
Dude2 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:42 am
Alexa will always be there for me.
As long as you can remember her name.
...and the device doesn't accidentally buy one "a Lexus" by mistake.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:57 am
by F150HD
AerialWombat wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:37 am
This might not be a joke soon. Robotic assistive care is already in the testing stages, and I for one am effectively counting on that technology in case I live beyond my expected expiration date of 65.
Read somewhere that robotic proctology is an up and coming field.
Not quite sure I want to spend more time thinking about this.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:05 am
by billthecat
CULater wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:58 am
GerryL wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:53 am
smectym wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:44 am
There are tragic situations. However, there is a lot of marketing of “cognitive decline,” and as we age we’ll find relatives ( some disinterested but others with an agenda), medical professsionals, and financial advisors or would-be advisors seeking to pry control of assets away from the earners of those assets. Without in any way minimizing the problem, I’d also counsel a healthy degree of skepticism. If you have been handling money for decades, you’re not likely to either suddenly (or, in many cases, even “gradually,” or ever before death) become incompetent to make reasonable decisions about asset allocation and disposition.

The default: stay in control. The law is on your side.
Spoken with the conviction of someone who has never had to deal with the cognitive decline of a close friend or relative.
Having seen what happened to my mother*, I am committed to arranging my affairs so that I can manage as long as possible and then, if necessary, hand off financial affairs to a trusted team. Establishing that trusted team is the hard part.

* She went from someone who could program an old VHS recorder to someone who did not understand how to change the channels on her tv.
Likewise with my mother, who is still living at 102 and has suffered from dementia since her mid-late 80s. Without my sister and myself I can't imagine how she would have fared. I have no children to see me through this "tail risk" scenario, so have to figure out how to take care of myself before I can no longer take care of myself.
I wonder if I would even want to continue living once dementia kicks in. I mean, what’s the point if all you are doing is languishing in a hospital being moved from bed to wheel chair to bathroom and back again unaware of the world.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:21 am
by tc101
If you have been handling money for decades, you’re not likely to either suddenly (or, in many cases, even “gradually,” or ever before death) become incompetent to make reasonable decisions about asset allocation and disposition.
That was not true for my father. He was a very sharp investor. Then in his mid 80's he started getting confused. At first he realized he was in a state of cognitive decline and asked my brother and me for help. Then a few years later he started to think he was a brilliant investor and started doing really stupid things. A so called "friend" talked him into a very bad investment. It was a mess.

I think it is very common for people to become incompetent as they age, and often not realize it.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:24 am
by tc101
I wonder if I would even want to continue living once dementia kicks in. I mean, what’s the point if all you are doing is languishing in a hospital being moved from bed to wheel chair to bathroom and back again unaware of the world.
Same here. I became convinced of that while spending time at my father's assisted living place. It can be a nightmare existence. The question for me is how to be relatively sure of being able to end my life at the right time. No clear answer on that so far.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:21 pm
by GerryL
tc101 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:24 am
I wonder if I would even want to continue living once dementia kicks in. I mean, what’s the point if all you are doing is languishing in a hospital being moved from bed to wheel chair to bathroom and back again unaware of the world.
Same here. I became convinced of that while spending time at my father's assisted living place. It can be a nightmare existence. The question for me is how to be relatively sure of being able to end my life at the right time. No clear answer on that so far.
Every case of Alzheimer's and cognitive decline is different. It can be a long, slow decline with the individual being able to function socially. It can be faster and more disabling. And lots of permutations in between.
The "good" news is that once someone is in serious cognitive decline, it is often harder on their family than it is on them. I could call my mother twice a day or once a week and she didn't know the difference. (FYI: I called almost everyday and visited once a week.) It wasn't until she fell and broke her hip that the physical decline kicked in.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:39 pm
by shell921
tc101 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:24 am
I wonder if I would even want to continue living once dementia kicks in. I mean, what’s the point if all you are doing is languishing in a hospital being moved from bed to wheel chair to bathroom and back again unaware of the world.
Same here. I became convinced of that while spending time at my father's assisted living place. It can be a nightmare existence. The question for me is how to be relatively sure of being able to end my life at the right time. No clear answer on that so far.

Here in Calif we have death with dignity now but you must go through a process and I think
you must have a terminal illness with a prognosis of a year or less less to live. AND be of sound mind.

In 2014, when my husband died, Calif did NOT have death with
dignity but even if it had been an option, my husband [ who indeed did have a terminal diagnosis ]
was so full of all the drugs he got in the hospital that his mind was terribly confused.

I remember my aunt - after her husband died she was so distraught. She did not drive and had been so dependent on him.
So she became isolated in her suburban tract home. She didn't have friends because she and her
husband had just moved to a new area a year prior to his death.
They never had children and her only sister [ my mother] had died 5 years prior. She really had no joy in living and
was anxious and afraid most of the time. I think there are many older people in this position.
They are older and weaker, their friends are all dead, no children or
grandchildren. There is no terminal illness but there isn't much joy in living anymore.
That is why I say I think ANY adult [ of sound mind } over age 60 should be
able to end their life peacefully and safely in a calm setting -even if they are NOT terminally ill.

I saw on the news that binge drinking is on the rise for Americans over age 65

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/why-binge ... americans/

https://time.com/5638643/older-adults-binge-drinking/

besides health issues the reasons are :

social change [ spouse is dead ]
too much free time [ lack of life purpose ]
lack of responsibility
loneliness dues to loved ones and friends being deceased

I can see myself wanting to go calmly, safely and peacefully - even if
not terminally ill or disabled. Not now, but
maybe someday. I am fit and active and healthy -for now. I do volunteer work and
I do have friends and 2 dogs. But I have no children...and thus no grandchildren.
My husband has been gone 5+ years. I lost 4 friends in the past 2 years. I fell and broke my right
arm 18 months ago and was not able to drive for a month! I needed rides to medical follow up
appts and I even needed help showering and dressing myself for the first week! That was a huge
wake up call. I HATED being dependent on others-even temporarily. I have always been very independent.
So if I were in need of help and all my friends were gone, I think I'd want to check out. :(

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:02 pm
by tibbitts
smectym wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:44 am
There are tragic situations. However, there is a lot of marketing of “cognitive decline,” and as we age we’ll find relatives ( some disinterested but others with an agenda), medical professsionals, and financial advisors or would-be advisors seeking to pry control of assets away from the earners of those assets. Without in any way minimizing the problem, I’d also counsel a healthy degree of skepticism. If you have been handling money for decades, you’re not likely to either suddenly (or, in many cases, even “gradually,” or ever before death) become incompetent to make reasonable decisions about asset allocation and disposition.

The default: stay in control. The law is on your side.
My experience has been that decline isn't always gradual - as in going from 90% fully functional to maybe 5%, overnight.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:58 pm
by aspirit
This links input might be helpful.
"Economic theory states that full employment and low inflation cannot coexist".

http://www.oncoursefp.com/files/Vectors ... 0final.pdf

Good Luck!

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:36 pm
by guyinlaw
tc101 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:24 am
I wonder if I would even want to continue living once dementia kicks in. I mean, what’s the point if all you are doing is languishing in a hospital being moved from bed to wheel chair to bathroom and back again unaware of the world.
Same here. I became convinced of that while spending time at my father's assisted living place. It can be a nightmare existence. The question for me is how to be relatively sure of being able to end my life at the right time. No clear answer on that so far.
Physical activity and mindfulness helps reduce/delay/avoid dementia.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6008507/

15 years ago, CTScan shows some atrophy in the brain for my father. He keeps himself physically active and does meditation. We have noticed minor decline, but he is fairly independent. Hoping for the best.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:46 am
by Zonian59
Yep, I'm a "solo ager" and soon to be "elder orphan".
I'm 60, in reasonably good health, depending on which lab tests you look at, but have no siblings or close relatives or close friends.
I'm currently a caregiver for my 94-year-old mother who has been a semi-invalid since a stroke experienced seven years ago and now in steadily advancing dementia. She is fortunate she has someone to look after her. But as for me, I am anxious about my future years as I have no close support.

Geber's “Essential Retirement Planning for Solo Agers” seems like a good start, but cursory readings still assumes you have someone out there. I'm still wary about leaving my affairs in the hands of strangers, but what choice do I have?

I've got a lot of thinking to do and lots of soul-searching too.

A thought: There are orphanages for young children to be adopted. Are there "orphanages for elder orphans" to be adopted by a nice family who needs a grandfather or grandmother and is willing to look after him/her?

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:00 am
by Zonian59
billthecat wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:05 am
CULater wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:58 am
GerryL wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:53 am
smectym wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:44 am
There are tragic situations. However, there is a lot of marketing of “cognitive decline,” and as we age we’ll find relatives ( some disinterested but others with an agenda), medical professsionals, and financial advisors or would-be advisors seeking to pry control of assets away from the earners of those assets. Without in any way minimizing the problem, I’d also counsel a healthy degree of skepticism. If you have been handling money for decades, you’re not likely to either suddenly (or, in many cases, even “gradually,” or ever before death) become incompetent to make reasonable decisions about asset allocation and disposition.

The default: stay in control. The law is on your side.
Spoken with the conviction of someone who has never had to deal with the cognitive decline of a close friend or relative.
Having seen what happened to my mother*, I am committed to arranging my affairs so that I can manage as long as possible and then, if necessary, hand off financial affairs to a trusted team. Establishing that trusted team is the hard part.

* She went from someone who could program an old VHS recorder to someone who did not understand how to change the channels on her tv.
Likewise with my mother, who is still living at 102 and has suffered from dementia since her mid-late 80s. Without my sister and myself I can't imagine how she would have fared. I have no children to see me through this "tail risk" scenario, so have to figure out how to take care of myself before I can no longer take care of myself.
I wonder if I would even want to continue living once dementia kicks in. I mean, what’s the point if all you are doing is languishing in a hospital being moved from bed to wheel chair to bathroom and back again unaware of the world.
I remember an old Japanese folk tale where the elder who is terminally ill and no longer able to care for himself/herself is taken to a mountain and abandoned.

Dementia and terminal cancer are my biggest fears. At the point where I realize I have dementia or incurable cancer, it will be time for me to wrap up my affairs while I still can, and arrange for someone to take me to that mountain.....that is if it can be done legally. Isn't it amazing that one can abort an unwanted or defective fetus, but not allow the elderly with dementia or cancer to self-abort? Oh well....

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:03 am
by gd
On an investment angle, annuities. It has gotten better in recent years, but dismissing them out of hand because they don't perform as well as active financial management is not unusual here.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:46 am
by changingtimes
I am likely to be a solo ager, widowed, unlikely to marry again, and no kids. A year before DH got sick we did all of our estate planning, including trusts, powers of attorney and whatnot, which meant that I had the infrastructure in place after he died to just change the configuration rather than having to start from scratch. My sibling (and, for now, my father) are my trustees, though I have also given my health care power of attorney to two close friends in addition to my sibling, because I don't want the person who will benefit the most from my demise being the one to decide whether to pull the plug. :) :) I also hope that at least one of my nieces or nephews might come through as a caring, responsible adult.

Even though I hopefully have a long time before this becomes of great concern (I'm 53 now), there are times when it does terrify me, when I've imagined myself warehoused in some awful nursing home. My mother suffered a dementia/ALS combo that was terrible, but it only lasted 18 months before she was gone at 73. My father on the other hand is nearing his late 80s and is still living on his own, exercising, and enjoying life with almost no health concerns.

On the other hand, as I learned with DH's death, we truly have absolutely no idea what life has in store for us, or what the world may be like 10, 20, 30 years down the road. When I'm feeling less freaked out, I like to believe there will be great advances in health care and also aging set-ups in the coming years, so that worrying about it now is not really of much benefit, beyond what I've already done in terms of laying the financial and legal groundwork, and trying to not trip on my stairs and end up laying there for a week before anyone realizes it. :twisted:

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:14 am
by CULater
It seems like in these matters, it is too soon to take action and then it is suddenly too late. It is so easy to put it all aside as something to look into "tomorrow."

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:28 pm
by Swansea
changingtimes wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:46 am
I am likely to be a solo ager, widowed, unlikely to marry again, and no kids. A year before DH got sick we did all of our estate planning, including trusts, powers of attorney and whatnot, which meant that I had the infrastructure in place after he died to just change the configuration rather than having to start from scratch. My sibling (and, for now, my father) are my trustees, though I have also given my health care power of attorney to two close friends in addition to my sibling, because I don't want the person who will benefit the most from my demise being the one to decide whether to pull the plug. :) :) I also hope that at least one of my nieces or nephews might come through as a caring, responsible adult.

Even though I hopefully have a long time before this becomes of great concern (I'm 53 now), there are times when it does terrify me, when I've imagined myself warehoused in some awful nursing home. My mother suffered a dementia/ALS combo that was terrible, but it only lasted 18 months before she was gone at 73. My father on the other hand is nearing his late 80s and is still living on his own, exercising, and enjoying life with almost no health concerns.

On the other hand, as I learned with DH's death, we truly have absolutely no idea what life has in store for us, or what the world may be like 10, 20, 30 years down the road. When I'm feeling less freaked out, I like to believe there will be great advances in health care and also aging set-ups in the coming years, so that worrying about it now is not really of much benefit, beyond what I've already done in terms of laying the financial and legal groundwork, and trying to not trip on my stairs and end up laying there for a week before anyone realizes it. :twisted:
In my neighborhood, about half the homes in an eight house radius have an elderly person receiving home care. There seems to be a shift away from nursing homes.
According to the U.S. Bureau of the Census, slightly over 5 percent of the 65+ population occupy nursing homes, congregate care, assisted living, and board-and-care homes, and about 4.2 percent are in nursing homes at any given time.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:37 pm
by Phineas J. Whoopee
aspirit wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:58 pm
This links input might be helpful.
"Economic theory states that full employment and low inflation cannot coexist".

http://www.oncoursefp.com/files/Vectors ... 0final.pdf

Good Luck!
Which economic theory is On Course referring to? There are many. The linked document doesn't say.

I recall that at the time stagflation was thought to be impossible, except it was happening. I believe some economic models have since been refined.

Isn't the statement something like the bumblebee argument, meaningless in detail but intending to show those who make careful study have no expertise about anything? Isn't On Course saying my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge?

PJW

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:54 pm
by dual
Dude2 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:42 am
Alexa will always be there for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwPtcqcqz00

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:29 pm
by montanagirl
Swansea wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:28 pm
changingtimes wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:46 am
I am likely to be a solo ager, widowed, unlikely to marry again, and no kids. A year before DH got sick we did all of our estate planning, including trusts, powers of attorney and whatnot, which meant that I had the infrastructure in place after he died to just change the configuration rather than having to start from scratch. My sibling (and, for now, my father) are my trustees, though I have also given my health care power of attorney to two close friends in addition to my sibling, because I don't want the person who will benefit the most from my demise being the one to decide whether to pull the plug. :) :) I also hope that at least one of my nieces or nephews might come through as a caring, responsible adult.

Even though I hopefully have a long time before this becomes of great concern (I'm 53 now), there are times when it does terrify me, when I've imagined myself warehoused in some awful nursing home. My mother suffered a dementia/ALS combo that was terrible, but it only lasted 18 months before she was gone at 73. My father on the other hand is nearing his late 80s and is still living on his own, exercising, and enjoying life with almost no health concerns.

On the other hand, as I learned with DH's death, we truly have absolutely no idea what life has in store for us, or what the world may be like 10, 20, 30 years down the road. When I'm feeling less freaked out, I like to believe there will be great advances in health care and also aging set-ups in the coming years, so that worrying about it now is not really of much benefit, beyond what I've already done in terms of laying the financial and legal groundwork, and trying to not trip on my stairs and end up laying there for a week before anyone realizes it. :twisted:
In my neighborhood, about half the homes in an eight house radius have an elderly person receiving home care. There seems to be a shift away from nursing homes.
According to the U.S. Bureau of the Census, slightly over 5 percent of the 65+ population occupy nursing homes, congregate care, assisted living, and board-and-care homes, and about 4.2 percent are in nursing homes at any given time.
One goes to a nursing home because he or she needs 7x24 RN care. Often the doctor will not discharge a patient unless there is round the clock care at home. It's not interchangeable with assisted living, independent living, "rest" homes, etc. If you can't afford 3 shifts of RNs then you will be in a nursing home.

Me, I fully expect to die alone in a nursing home. Ya get out of life what you put into it. My bad.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:38 pm
by delamer
visualguy wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:31 am
smectym wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:44 am
If you have been handling money for decades, you’re not likely to either suddenly (or, in many cases, even “gradually,” or ever before death) become incompetent to make reasonable decisions about asset allocation and disposition.
Alzheimer's isn't rare, unfortunately. If you get it, you absolutely lose with time your ability to manage money among most or all other things.
According to the social workers at my mother’s CCRC, the ability to deal with financial matters is one of the first cognitive abilities to go.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:47 pm
by delamer
guyinlaw wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:36 pm
tc101 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:24 am
I wonder if I would even want to continue living once dementia kicks in. I mean, what’s the point if all you are doing is languishing in a hospital being moved from bed to wheel chair to bathroom and back again unaware of the world.
Same here. I became convinced of that while spending time at my father's assisted living place. It can be a nightmare existence. The question for me is how to be relatively sure of being able to end my life at the right time. No clear answer on that so far.
Physical activity and mindfulness helps reduce/delay/avoid dementia.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6008507/

15 years ago, CTScan shows some atrophy in the brain for my father. He keeps himself physically active and does meditation. We have noticed minor decline, but he is fairly independent. Hoping for the best.
No one is going to argue that taking care of your health has benefits both for your quality and length of life.

But my mother — who was normal weight and exercised regularly — only lived one year more than her mother (aged 94 and 93). And my grandmother was very heavy with very limited mobility.

Alzheimer’s killed them both.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:54 pm
by delamer
A solo ager with financial means should certainly consider a CCRC. Not only do they offer the opportunity to live in the circumstances that you need as you age, but there are medical personnel and social workers to make determinations when you should make transitions to higher levels of care.

The staff at my mother’s CCRC are the ones who alerted me to how severe her cognitive decline was.

In some ways, finding a trusted financial surrogate is harder.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:56 am
by changingtimes
delamer wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:54 pm
A solo ager with financial means should certainly consider a CCRC. Not only do they offer the opportunity to live in the circumstances that you need as you age, but there are medical personnel and social workers to make determinations when you should make transitions to higher levels of care.

The staff at my mother’s CCRC are the ones who alerted me to how severe her cognitive decline was.

In some ways, finding a trusted financial surrogate is harder.
Assuming that there hasn't been a sea change in elder care by the time I get there, I am assuming I will end up in a CCRC (or whatever its future equivalent is). Hopefully they will start creating them for urban hipsters. :) :)

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:14 am
by CULater
changingtimes wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:56 am
delamer wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:54 pm
A solo ager with financial means should certainly consider a CCRC. Not only do they offer the opportunity to live in the circumstances that you need as you age, but there are medical personnel and social workers to make determinations when you should make transitions to higher levels of care.

The staff at my mother’s CCRC are the ones who alerted me to how severe her cognitive decline was.

In some ways, finding a trusted financial surrogate is harder.
Assuming that there hasn't been a sea change in elder care by the time I get there, I am assuming I will end up in a CCRC (or whatever its future equivalent is). Hopefully they will start creating them for urban hipsters. :) :)
I've been looking into CCRCs and have one major hangup. They resemble "life annuities" in the sense that you exchange a large upfront sum of money for the promise of lifetime healthcare, and you are locked into that "life care annuity" until you're done. That facility will be the place you reside for the rest of your life. If things change, such as family/friends moving away, you're locked in. If things change, such as the CCRC becomes a less desirable place to be, you're locked in. It's essentially a one-way non-revokable decision. You've got to be pretty sure about what you're doing. Maybe that's why the average age of people who choose a CCRC tends to be pretty old, in the 80s I believe. People wait until they're less likely to care about moving out or changing their minds because they're getting pretty close to the end of the road. How long are you likely to last in a CCRC if you are in your 80s when you move in? Is it worth the large sum of money you'll probably end of forfeiting? Like an annuity, most of the people who enter CCRCs end up paying the cost of the small percentage who live for years in assisted living/nursing care, minus the profit and the overhead collected by the CCRC. Is it worth it? If your choices are limited and you won't have someone to look after you, manage your financial and healthcare, and be your advocate, perhaps. For us solo agers, perhaps.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:43 am
by onthecusp
123 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:28 am
Dude2 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:42 am
Alexa will always be there for me.
As long as you can remember her name.
Alexa has been asking us if we want to use "Brief Mode" so I guess she does not want to talk to us anymore either. :(

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:54 am
by wolf359
onthecusp wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:43 am
123 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:28 am
Dude2 wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:42 am
Alexa will always be there for me.
As long as you can remember her name.
Alexa has been asking us if we want to use "Brief Mode" so I guess she does not want to talk to us anymore either. :(
What about the Alexa Silver?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvT_gqs5ETk

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:57 am
by carolinaman
I see potential issues with this. It is risky to find even close family members to do this. Once you have cognitive decline, there is a great temptation to misuse the funds. I think having some oversight over the fiduciary is advised. For example, if you have an attorney as fiduciary, have a CPA review your accounts each year to assure compliance with your care and objectives. I know, I lean toward paranoia with things like this, but I have seen so many situations where the fiduciary basically siphoned off the person's funds.

Re: Are you a "solo ager?"

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:34 am
by GerryL
carolinaman wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:57 am
I see potential issues with this. It is risky to find even close family members to do this. Once you have cognitive decline, there is a great temptation to misuse the funds. I think having some oversight over the fiduciary is advised. For example, if you have an attorney as fiduciary, have a CPA review your accounts each year to assure compliance with your care and objectives. I know, I lean toward paranoia with things like this, but I have seen so many situations where the fiduciary basically siphoned off the person's funds.
My plan is to have a team that includes my nephew and a professional fiduciary so that no major financial moves can be made by a single person. Don't know yet how to make that happen, but I have asked my nephew if he would be willing. With luck, I won't suffer severe cognitive decline and will stay physically capable and the LTC insurance company will get to keep all the money I've paid them in premiums. Hope for the best; plan for the worst.