Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

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Topic Author
confusedinvestor
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:04 am

Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by confusedinvestor » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:30 am

Hi Folks,
I work in IT in a major telecommunications company and our entire dept is outsourced and we are given only 1 year job, with very little chance of extension. All our pension etc is all gone, I'm very sad and depressed, I have started prelim job search but I don't see many job posting in SoCal local area, in my field, IT / Database Admin.

1. What do you suggest I do ?

2. Should I try to get a Cloud / IT certification to get more marketable for next 4-6 months while I still have 1 year job ?

3. How is the CA unemployment insurance ?

4. What is the best way to get a job these days in IT ?

My DW doesn't want to move, given she has a job here. We spent all our EF in a recent remodel and what a bad timing of all this. I have been working for this big telecommunications company for 10+ years and now I find myself bit rusty in technology where I haven't kept my skills upto the market, very worried and depressed

Will appreciate any words of wisdom and advises.

bluquark
Posts: 887
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:30 pm

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by bluquark » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:40 am

It seems to me that you have a bit of space to breathe and prepare at least. 1 year is not long but it's not short, either, and your spouse's income also gives you a buffer.

I agree refreshing your skills should be your top priority. Onsite databases (if maintaining these was your primary role) seem destined for a continual decline. As of 10-15 years ago, cloud was only a twinkle in Amazon's eye and it seems like this corporation gave every impression of providing a lifelong career so it's totally understandable and not your fault that you ended up in this situation. I think you're in a position to make the best of it, and who knows, it might result in some new passions and a job you enjoy more than this one in the end.

Pursuing a certification is one way, but not the only way to prove your skills. Another way is to work on a personal project that you host, open-source and link to on your resume. Additionally, I would suggest learning (more) programming/scripting because database admistration is increasingly blurring into coding as part of the "DevOps" trend.

(Note: I am a programmer, not an IT or DevOps specialist, so my view of your field is slightly distant. Someone from your speciality can give better or more precise advice, the above is just my two cents.)

lstone19
Posts: 523
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:33 pm

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by lstone19 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:05 am

confusedinvestor wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:30 am
...All our pension etc is all gone...
I have been working for this big telecommunications company for 10+ years...
This part doesn't make sense. If when you say "pension", you mean a traditional defined benefit plan, then if you've been there and in the pension program for that entire time, you are 100% vested in the program. Although it may not grow to provide as large a benefit as you first expected, you will receive, at retirement, the benefit you have accrued.

OTOH, if you mean a defined contribution plan such as 401k, we usually don't use the word pension for that but in any event, that money would still be yours.

j0nnyg1984
Posts: 639
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:55 am

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by j0nnyg1984 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:23 am

Well, this doesn’t help you much, but just information for those to come after you - a home remodel doesn’t count as an emergency. Don’t use your EF for things like this.

You have a year. stop your retirement contributions, build up as much cash as possible, and start looking for a new job. Most people don’t get the type of advanced notice that you have.

HomeStretch
Posts: 3522
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:06 pm

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by HomeStretch » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:40 am

The most important job you have right now is to prepare for your upcoming job separation.

Prioritize your job search. Look for outplacement assistance in the areas of resume preparation, polishing your interview skills, networking and job leads. Improve your skills with additional training if necessary. Let friends and family know you are in the market.

Build cash. Cut out all discretionary expenses. Review your remaining expenses and see if you can obtain better prices for insurance etc. Refinance your mortgage balance for a better rate if possible while you are still employed. If you and your spouse only have term insurance through your employer, look into getting your own level premium term life with a 20-30 year term.

If your current company offers you a retention package, that’s great but don’t let it tether you to the old job. If you find the right new job, get out early and give up the retention bonus if necessary.

Best of luck.

Topic Author
confusedinvestor
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:04 am

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by confusedinvestor » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:56 am

Thanks you. I'd appreciate your advises, given this difficult times, I've few questions below and I'd love to get your feedback on, if I'm on the right track...
bluquark wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:40 am
It seems to me that you have a bit of space to breathe and prepare at least. 1 year is not long but it's not short, either, and your spouse's income also gives you a buffer.

>> Wife's after tax is 4K and out monthly expenses is 7k, so we have shortfall of 3K, unemployment in CA pays 2K, so I still have a short fall of 1K per months for 6 months after the 1 year separation and after that 3K/month shortfall, i'm hoping to get a jobs in next 18 months...but very nervous...


(Note: I am a programmer, not an IT or DevOps specialist, so my view of your field is slightly distant. Someone from your speciality can give better or more precise advice, the above is just my two cents.)

>> Questions:

1. Given you a developer, What are your suggestions to transform my skills to get a DevOps job ?

2. I do have background in Kubernetes, Docker but don't know Jenkins, Ansible, git - Should I sign up with few Udemy courses to start learning those skills gap for DevOps ?

3. As you pointed out DBA jobs continue to decline and I must work for another 15+ years …I've been programming a bit in Python (writing small scripts etc) - Questions: What is the best way to enhance my python skills to address the "Dev" gap in a DevOps role ?

bluquark
Posts: 887
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:30 pm

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by bluquark » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:31 pm

Here are some guides I found that answer DevOps questions:

https://www.edureka.co/blog/devops-skills
https://techbeacon.com/devops/5-ways-ma ... s-engineer

I guess the second link has made me rethink my suggestion a bit as well, since DevOps is more highly paid than your current role and it says programmers typically find it easier to transition into it than administrators. It would be nice to convert this crisis into an opportunity but it's probably too risky to try to fully redirect your career path towards it in just one year.

So it's probably a more practical to search for a different database administration role for now and to focus on updating your skills for the latest database (and surrounding ecosystem) technologies, especially cloud. You can also learn DevOps skills, but more as a "spice" to put on your resume for now.

cashboy
Posts: 203
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Location: USA

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by cashboy » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:34 pm

confusedinvestor wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:30 am
Hi Folks,
I work in IT in a major telecommunications company and our entire dept is outsourced and we are given only 1 year job, with very little chance of extension.
1. What do you suggest I do ?

my advice is non-technical.

same exact thing happened to me in 2005. standard stuff, sadly....

i worked in IT for a company for 25+ years. new ceo came in and they outsourced 100s of hard working long-term loyal people in IT (including me) to an IT Outsourcer. Anyone who worked for the outsourcer was guaranteed a job for 1.5 years - but after that one 1.5 years was up no guarantees.

after the time was up more than half of the people were cut from the outsourcer at the 1.5 year anniversary, and little by little most of the rest over the next year.


here is what i did and i was successful. some of it sounds a bit harsh, i know.

get angry, you deserved better. but, channel that anger 'energy' and use it to get another job - not internally where it eats you alive, or externally at people or your old company.

do not take it personal.

do not let this paralyze you. this is important! do not be depressed! get moving to another job.

don't think about it being fair or unfair. life is unfair; business less so.

do as little as possible for the outsourcer - while still maintaining a professional work ethic. do what you need to, but no more. the outsourcer services your old company, so why would you go above and beyond what is required to help your old company after what they did to you? you owe them nothing more than what is required.

start job search immediately. do not wait.

your primary job function is to get another job.

do not believe anything the outsourcer says about opportunities to stay on after the one year is up. they will say anything now to keep you during the transition period.

consider yourself a short-timer.

get that resume up to date.

create a 'linkedin' profile. post a good pic of yourself in your best business attire.

network with friends in the industry who might help. like if one of your coworkers gets a new job.

consider becoming a consultant.

consider 'remote worker' positions. rare, but they are out there from time to time. you usually fly in every couple of months to the office.

not sure of your age, but there is age bias out there. if you are older and gray consider coloring your hair. :happy

again, your primary job function is to get another job.

me, after doing the above, got a job at one of the biggest financial companies in the world. i was with the outsourcer for about only 4 months. managers who outsourced us, and were still at the company, were shocked at my leaving.

bottom line: I survived and so shall you!

:sharebeer

BHs say 'stay the course' when it comes to investments; good advice.

you will now set your job search 'course'. stay the course. ;-)


good luck.
Three-Fund Portfolio: FSPSX - FXAIX - FXNAX (with slight tilt of CDs - CASH - Canned Beans - Rice - Bottled Water)

Topic Author
confusedinvestor
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:04 am

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by confusedinvestor » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:04 pm

This. made my day today, thank you! I needed this during this difficult time.

Yes, I will start aggressive job search now vs getting de-motivated and depressed, given I've outdated skills working for this phone company for 10+ years.

I am 43.

Again, thank you so much.

cashboy wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:34 pm
confusedinvestor wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:30 am
Hi Folks,
I work in IT in a major telecommunications company and our entire dept is outsourced and we are given only 1 year job, with very little chance of extension.
1. What do you suggest I do ?

my advice is non-technical.

same exact thing happened to me in 2005. standard stuff, sadly....

i worked in IT for a company for 25+ years. new ceo came in and they outsourced 100s of hard working long-term loyal people in IT (including me) to an IT Outsourcer. Anyone who worked for the outsourcer was guaranteed a job for 1.5 years - but after that one 1.5 years was up no guarantees.

after the time was up more than half of the people were cut from the outsourcer at the 1.5 year anniversary, and little by little most of the rest over the next year.


here is what i did and i was successful. some of it sounds a bit harsh, i know.

get angry, you deserved better. but, channel that anger 'energy' and use it to get another job - not internally where it eats you alive, or externally at people or your old company.

do not take it personal.

do not let this paralyze you. this is important! do not be depressed! get moving to another job.

don't think about it being fair or unfair. life is unfair; business less so.

do as little as possible for the outsourcer - while still maintaining a professional work ethic. do what you need to, but no more. the outsourcer services your old company, so why would you go above and beyond what is required to help your old company after what they did to you? you owe them nothing more than what is required.

start job search immediately. do not wait.

your primary job function is to get another job.

do not believe anything the outsourcer says about opportunities to stay on after the one year is up. they will say anything now to keep you during the transition period.

consider yourself a short-timer.

get that resume up to date.

create a 'linkedin' profile. post a good pic of yourself in your best business attire.

network with friends in the industry who might help. like if one of your coworkers gets a new job.

consider becoming a consultant.

consider 'remote worker' positions. rare, but they are out there from time to time. you usually fly in every couple of months to the office.

not sure of your age, but there is age bias out there. if you are older and gray consider coloring your hair. :happy

again, your primary job function is to get another job.

me, after doing the above, got a job at one of the biggest financial companies in the world. i was with the outsourcer for about only 4 months. managers who outsourced us, and were still at the company, were shocked at my leaving.

bottom line: I survived and so shall you!

:sharebeer

BHs say 'stay the course' when it comes to investments; good advice.

you will now set your job search 'course'. stay the course. ;-)


good luck.

KlangFool
Posts: 14731
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:15 pm

confusedinvestor wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:30 am

Hi Folks,
I work in IT in a major telecommunications company and our entire dept is outsourced and we are given only 1 year job,
confusedinvestor,

1) Update your LinkedIn profile.

2) Start contacting your ex-coworker. You should have plenty of them.

KlangFool

Topic Author
confusedinvestor
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:04 am

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by confusedinvestor » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:18 pm

Thanks. Given I've to find a job in local SoCAL area, here is what I'm thinking:

- 1. Apply to all local traditional DBA jobs (not much at all)
- 2. Get Azure Architect Cert in next 5 months and AWS in following 3 months ie 2 Cert in next 8 months - I've 13 months of "secure" job in this outsourcer....
- 3. Start Apply for local Cloud Admin jobs after my 1st Azure Cert - limited jobs per linkedin and indeed.com locally...
- 4. Continue to develop DevOps Skills (learn Jenkins, Python, Ansible) asap and then apply DevOps jobs after 6 months or so and see what happens...

Even if I get very lucky with #1 and get a job as traditional DBA, I feel I will be in the same situation in next few years, so # 2-4 is a must but I understand it is bit risky, given the timeline of 1 yr...oh well, that is why I am depressed..

bluquark , What do you think of my plan above as far as priority ?

I value your input.
bluquark wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:31 pm
Here are some guides I found that answer DevOps questions:

https://www.edureka.co/blog/devops-skills
https://techbeacon.com/devops/5-ways-ma ... s-engineer

I guess the second link has made me rethink my suggestion a bit as well, since DevOps is more highly paid than your current role and it says programmers typically find it easier to transition into it than administrators. It would be nice to convert this crisis into an opportunity but it's probably too risky to try to fully redirect your career path towards it in just one year.

So it's probably a more practical to search for a different database administration role for now and to focus on updating your skills for the latest database (and surrounding ecosystem) technologies, especially cloud. You can also learn DevOps skills, but more as a "spice" to put on your resume for now.

bluquark
Posts: 887
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:30 pm

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by bluquark » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:08 pm

I'd suggest also following cashboy's advice to look up remote work and consulting, and reach out to ex-coworkers. It seems like the biggest roadblock you're facing is that the job market is not hot for IT in SoCal. So it might help to think outside the box of pure reply-to-job-postings.

For the DevOps, it's more realistic as a 2-5 year plan where you gradually build up all the skills and also apply the techniques at a job not in that role. Also it might have the same problem of "not in SoCal". For now, it would be not so much about applying for jobs listed as "DevOps" as impressing employers in applying for administration jobs that you are flexible and have future-looking skills.
Wife's after tax is 4K and out monthly expenses is 7k, so we have shortfall of 3K, unemployment in CA pays 2K, so I still have a short fall of 1K per months for 6 months after the 1 year separation and after that 3K/month shortfall, i'm hoping to get a jobs in next 18 months...but very nervous...
I think anything you can do to make these numbers line up a little better would help, since money is time. What expenses can you cut?

bstewie
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:16 pm

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by bstewie » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:13 pm

OP, sorry to hear. From my perspective:

- don’t waste your time on azure, some people use it but I would be hard pressed to hire someone from a pure MS toolkit background
- try to evolve away from DBA, it’s a dying role. intimate knowledge of db internals is valuable but I expect my peers to be able to write a basic db engine from scratch
- if you are dangerous enough to develop outside of declarative languages (sql, etc) try and transition into devops. less stressful than writing and shipping web scale code but still needed by most companies and it can be a rewarding role if you evolve to SRE type work

Get in contact with some good recruiters, they will help you with the hunt and the transition.

Shallowpockets
Posts: 1503
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:26 am

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by Shallowpockets » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:16 pm

Well, well, well. IT outsourced. So it seems to be a big thing in these United States.
DW had same thing happen. Entire IT dept of Sysco Foods outsourced to Indian company Infosys. Nothing to be done. Customer service be damned. DW had client base to fix and apply IT problems for orders, etc. Job down the drain. Luckily finances were good all around our small world and she never had to go back to work.
Who's to say if OP gets another IT job it will not also be outsourced.

bstewie
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:16 pm

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by bstewie » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:19 pm

Shallowpockets wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:16 pm
Well, well, well. IT outsourced. So it seems to be a big thing in these United States.
DW had same thing happen. Entire IT dept of Sysco Foods outsourced to Indian company Infosys. Nothing to be done. Customer service be damned. DW had client base to fix and apply IT problems for orders, etc. Job down the drain. Luckily finances were good all around our small world and she never had to go back to work.
Who's to say if OP gets another IT job it will not also be outsourced.
Ugh, infosys. I hope everyday they show up on the news in a criminal investigation for their business practices in the states.

Shallowpockets
Posts: 1503
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:26 am

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by Shallowpockets » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:21 pm

bstewie wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:19 pm
Shallowpockets wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:16 pm
Well, well, well. IT outsourced. So it seems to be a big thing in these United States.
DW had same thing happen. Entire IT dept of Sysco Foods outsourced to Indian company Infosys. Nothing to be done. Customer service be damned. DW had client base to fix and apply IT problems for orders, etc. Job down the drain. Luckily finances were good all around our small world and she never had to go back to work.
Who's to say if OP gets another IT job it will not also be outsourced.
Ugh, infosys. I hope everyday they show up on the news in a criminal investigation for their business practices in the states.
HB 1.

bstewie
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:16 pm

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by bstewie » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:28 pm

Shallowpockets wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:21 pm
bstewie wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:19 pm
Shallowpockets wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:16 pm
Well, well, well. IT outsourced. So it seems to be a big thing in these United States.
DW had same thing happen. Entire IT dept of Sysco Foods outsourced to Indian company Infosys. Nothing to be done. Customer service be damned. DW had client base to fix and apply IT problems for orders, etc. Job down the drain. Luckily finances were good all around our small world and she never had to go back to work.
Who's to say if OP gets another IT job it will not also be outsourced.
Ugh, infosys. I hope everyday they show up on the news in a criminal investigation for their business practices in the states.
HB 1.
H-1B? This won’t stop them, denials have just motivated them to craft more magic tricks and lies stateside.

Topic Author
confusedinvestor
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:04 am

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by confusedinvestor » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:38 pm

Folks, I'm not H1B and outsourced company is a big blue xxx company - let's not derail this thread and get it locked by admin vs helping me out during this rough times for me and my family.

I already got great advises (actionable) and I'll work on it.

Any suggestions on how to get in touch with local good recruiters or head-hunters ?

I've sadly very limited network and new to SoCal and all my ex-coworkers in TX but any job in TX, i'd have to move but DW has a local job here in SoCal.

I've started going to meetups (local evening technical group meetings) and telling few ppl that i'm in the market...

Topic Author
confusedinvestor
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:04 am

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by confusedinvestor » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:40 pm

Do you think I should rather focus on AWS Cloud ?
bstewie wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:13 pm
OP, sorry to hear. From my perspective:

- don’t waste your time on azure, some people use it but I would be hard pressed to hire someone from a pure MS toolkit background
Yes. I see that now, I was sleeping all these years, my fault - working on updating my skills, putting in 2 hrs every night to transform, anything else you suggest ?
thanks again!
- try to evolve away from DBA, it’s a dying role. intimate knowledge of db internals is valuable but I expect my peers to be able to write a basic db engine from scratch
- if you are dangerous enough to develop outside of declarative languages (sql, etc) try and transition into devops. less stressful than writing and shipping web scale code but still needed by most companies and it can be a rewarding role if you evolve to SRE type work

Get in contact with some good recruiters, they will help you with the hunt and the transition.

bstewie
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:16 pm

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by bstewie » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:58 pm

confusedinvestor wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:40 pm
Do you think I should rather focus on AWS Cloud ?
bstewie wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:13 pm
OP, sorry to hear. From my perspective:

- don’t waste your time on azure, some people use it but I would be hard pressed to hire someone from a pure MS toolkit background
Yes. I see that now, I was sleeping all these years, my fault - working on updating my skills, putting in 2 hrs every night to transform, anything else you suggest ?
thanks again!
- try to evolve away from DBA, it’s a dying role. intimate knowledge of db internals is valuable but I expect my peers to be able to write a basic db engine from scratch
- if you are dangerous enough to develop outside of declarative languages (sql, etc) try and transition into devops. less stressful than writing and shipping web scale code but still needed by most companies and it can be a rewarding role if you evolve to SRE type work

Get in contact with some good recruiters, they will help you with the hunt and the transition.
I don’t mean the MS comment in a bad way, just a realistic statement. Where tech is IP it is unlikely MS has a significant presence, those tend to be the places where I find myself employed. It’s not so much that everything MS is horrible as much as how much startup drag you’re going to cost me vs. picking someone else. I’m actually fond of a couple things MS.

If you want to move away from DBA/DevOps entirely you could look to transitioning to front end development. It seems like everyone needs JavaScript developers, and the learning curve is arguably less steep than other options. I would evaluate this based on personal wants and needs. Pay scales and growth options are different if you specialize in such a role. I would probably try to get into DevOps and evolve to SRE if I felt confident in my abilities. If you consider yourself extremely knowledgeable as a DBA you could look to transition into big data / data engineering roles, but the technologies may have a steep learning curve depending on expected level of comprehension by the hiring employer if your experience is primarily limited to RDBMS.

Recruiters will find you on LinkedIn hand over fist if the content on your profile is indicative of what they are looking for. There are many smaller firms in LA if that’s where you are based that will work for you if you reach out to them.

Nearly every company I have worked at has gone trough multiple bouts of certain divisions being outsourced. My honest opinion is to put in the work to stay a subject matter expert in emerging technologies and to have a fundamentally strong understanding of computer science. Cheap labor takes years to learn from SMEs on emerging technologies to fold into their portfolio. Infosys and the likes can help a customer implement and maintain X using existing tools on the market, they are not inventing X.
Last edited by bstewie on Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cashboy
Posts: 203
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Location: USA

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by cashboy » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:01 pm

you might want to check out this list:

https://zety.com/blog/best-job-search-sites

register, if a site is free, and meets your needs, and create searches that send emails to you daily if there are hits on your search criteria. this way jobs come to you without you searching all the time (which can be exhausting...).

also, you will need a lot of p....a....t....i....e....n.....c....e....

:sharebeer
Last edited by cashboy on Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Three-Fund Portfolio: FSPSX - FXAIX - FXNAX (with slight tilt of CDs - CASH - Canned Beans - Rice - Bottled Water)

KlangFool
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:03 pm

confusedinvestor wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:38 pm

I've sadly very limited network and new to SoCal and all my ex-coworkers in TX but any job in TX, i'd have to move but DW has a local job here in SoCal.
confusedinvestor,

1) Please do not be close-minded and assume that your ex-coworkers in Texas do not know of any job opportunities in SoCal. If I can use my contacts in the USA to find a job in Asia and vice versa, you could use your contacts in Texas to find opportunity in SoCal.

2) Time to use your network. If you do not ask around, you would not know who knows what and where.

People hire people.

KlangFool

HomeStretch
Posts: 3522
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:06 pm

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by HomeStretch » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:08 pm

confusedinvestor wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:38 pm
I've sadly very limited network and new to SoCal and all my ex-coworkers in TX but any job in TX, i'd have to move but DW has a local job here in SoCal.
If SoCal has limited options for you and DW’s salary alone can’t cover your expenses, another parallel path to consider is for you and DW to both job search in TX where you have a network or another location with good job prospects. Recruiters can help. Good luck.

ThePrince
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Location: U.S.A.

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by ThePrince » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:27 pm

j0nnyg1984 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:23 am
Well, this doesn’t help you much, but just information for those to come after you - a home remodel doesn’t count as an emergency. Don’t use your EF for things like this.

You have a year. stop your retirement contributions, build up as much cash as possible, and start looking for a new job. Most people don’t get the type of advanced notice that you have.
Solid advice.

Strayshot
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Location: New Mexico

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by Strayshot » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:31 pm

Look at this like a giant opportunity.

I am not sure what California you are living in, but in the California I am aware of people who can spell docker, kubernetes, and jenkins all make 200k+ and have headhunters spamming them on LinkedIn.

bstewie
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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by bstewie » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:33 pm

Strayshot wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:31 pm
Look at this like a giant opportunity.

I am not sure what California you are living in, but in the California I am aware of people who can spell docker, kubernetes, and jenkins all make 200k+ and have headhunters spamming them on LinkedIn.
I wouldn’t say this is far from the truth in some cases :oops:

TTBG
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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by TTBG » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:07 pm

OP, I think your idea of going to tech meetups is a good one. It will expand your network and might help you decide which new skills to focus on. Another thing you can do is to keep scanning job ads. Expand beyond IT /DBA and look for other tech jobs that you might be able to transition to -- what skills do they require and can you pick up some of those skills in the next year? e.g., you're wondering if you should get a Cloud / IT certification -- do you see that as a requirement in the jobs that appeal to you?

And I'll just second what others have said -- try not to take it personally and focus your energy in the next year on preparing yourself for a new and probably better job / career path.

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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by welderwannabe » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:22 pm

Dont stress too much. If you're gonna get laid off there isn't a better job market for it to happen in. You wont be out of work for long.

Your skills aren't as stale as you think they are. We like to think IT is revolutionary at the moment but when you boil it all down what we do today is really a spin on what we did 10 years ago.

DBA skills give you insight into data management, access, storage, security. These are valuable concepts and transferrable to modern methods.

I'm an old C programmer and my knowledge is still useful in modern conversations about programming. It's not like you are a horse and buggy mechanic. You are a Dba. You'll need to adapt but the lift isn't as great as you are making it out to be.

Keep the faith.
I am not an investment professional, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by whodidntante » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:23 pm

Pretty sure you can get a tech job in modern California.

VaR
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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by VaR » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:46 pm

confusedinvestor wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:30 am
I have started prelim job search but I don't see many job posting in SoCal local area, in my field, IT / Database Admin.

I have been working for this big telecommunications company for 10+ years and now I find myself bit rusty in technology where I haven't kept my skills up to the market
I've been working in development at large corporations for 30-odd years and have worked with DBA teams very closely for development, deployment, and production support. Everyone on the thread seems to have piled on to the idea that job prospects for DBAs are bad and that you should switch to another role by taking a few online classes and doing some side projects, but I'd like to question how big of an issue that is.

Branching out is admirable but I'm not sure what evidence people are drawing upon to back up with conclusion? The BLS projected in 2016 that jobs for DBAs would grow at 11% a year, nationally. This doesn't sound like a dying vocation. My current company has a half dozen of them and my previous company had 20-30 of them - and the numbers have been growing, not shrinking. Admittedly, we are still primarily in our own datacenter rather than using a significant amount of IAAS.

What do you mean that you're "rusty in technology" and "haven't kept [your] skills up to the market?" Are you a good DBA? Do you administer SQL Server or Oracle or another database platform? How would you describe the kind of work that you did in database administration? Did you optimize queries with developers? Consult on index design and partitioning? Work with developers on isolation level issues? Or was it more managing table space issues and backups? What about performance?

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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by harrychan » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:32 pm

OP, my group was also in a similar dilemma as you except working for a major European telecommunications company. The difference is I became the manager that led the outsource team. By doing that, it bought me just enough time to do my research at the companies I want to work at and update my resume. Imo, your value is the years of experience you have and not some random cert you will obtain. Put your energy into reviewing your skills and experience to see what can be translated to other industries. I was a network engineer by trade but have extensive managerial experience. I now work as a portfolio manager overseeing IT project managers in healthcare making way more than I did before.

I would also forget about tech meetups and focus your attention on all work related contacts. This can mean vendors, ex colleagues, or even ex classmates from college. Your associations with them may help you distribute your resume to their contacts. Why would anyone you meet at some random tech meetup do such favor for you?

If you want, send me a link to your depersonalized resume and I can help you review it.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.

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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by nura » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:42 pm

DevOps is one the streams of IT that is more vulnerable to outsourcing or automation. I would not suggest a experienced DBA to transition to career in DevOps. Have you looked at learning one of NoSQL databases like HBase,MemSQL or Cassandra where your RDBMS skill may become handy?
Last edited by nura on Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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confusedinvestor
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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by confusedinvestor » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:33 pm

Thanks you for you offer to review my resume, I've PM'd you.
harrychan wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:32 pm

If you want, send me a link to your depersonalized resume and I can help you review it.

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confusedinvestor
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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by confusedinvestor » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:36 pm

Hum, I have good experience with NoSQL - Cassandra, Mongo, HBase but reality (based on job search counts in SoCol), limited noSQL vs DevOps opportunities

DevOps is automation but I'd like to focus on my DBA/Data Skills with DevOps focus. I'm also leaning few cloud technologies as lot of companies wants to move data/db/workloads to AWS/Azure vs on-prem.

Please wish me luck.
nura wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:42 pm
DevOps is one the streams of IT that is more vulnerable to outsourcing or automation. I would not suggest a experienced DBA to transition to career in DevOps. Have to looks at learning one of NoSQL databases like HBase,MemSQL or Cassandra where your RDBMS skill may become handy?

simas
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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by simas » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:42 am

confusedinvestor wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:30 am
4. What is the best way to get a job these days in IT ?
Have professional network , let that network know you are looking, and when looking actually use that network! Regardless of this subfield of Tech you are in. If you do not have good LinkedIn profile now in 2019 you are dead to the field and do not exist.
confusedinvestor wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:30 am
2. Should I try to get a Cloud / IT certification to get more marketable for next 4-6 months while I still have 1 year job ?
IMHO , no. the shared infrastructure aka cloud as well as 'as a service concept' , is way oversold. there are very specific cases where it may make some sense and vast number of use cases where it does not make any sense which usually very clear once companies start getting those bills from providers at 3-4x the costs it takes to run otherwise..


Your job hunt prospects as DBA of X years in Y technologies with A, B,C domains are way better than some newly minted AWS/Azure/whatever cert holder. Those are dime a dozen you are competing with people much younger than you and likely much cheaper than you


you mention DBA, which technology - SQL , Oracle, etc. I have been Microsoft SQL DBA for 20+ year and the field is robust, technology is developing greatly with new capabilities every 12-18 months plus massive investments into thinks like Power BI. at scale it is massively cheaper to run vs alternatives (including 'free' alternatives as I also run MongoDB) as is de facto market leader in DBMS right now. I used it in anywhere from telecom, to high freq trading, to massive (may TB) size data warehouses. Run them on physical hardware (which I never see anymore ), on multiple virtualizers, on AWS VMs, on Azure, etc.

So get up, get off your …. , fix/create your professional image and network, and search.
And , yes, deal with "very worried and depressed " - using professional help as needed. THIS will knock out any changes of success you may have more than any other factor...
Last edited by simas on Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:41 am

simas wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:42 am
confusedinvestor wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:30 am
2. Should I try to get a Cloud / IT certification to get more marketable for next 4-6 months while I still have 1 year job ?
IMHO , no. the shared infrastructure aka cloud as well as 'as a service concept' , is way oversold. there are very specific cases where it may make some sense and vast number of use cases where it does not make any sense which usually very clear once companies start getting those bills from providers at 3-4x the costs it takes to run otherwise..
I’m sure people said the same thing about VMs when they first appeared...

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/solutions ... c503317517
● By 2021, 94 percent of workloads and compute instances will be processed by cloud data centers; 6 percent will be processed by traditional data centers

● By 2021, 73 percent of the cloud workloads and compute instances will be in public cloud data centers, up from 58 percent in 2016 (CAGR of 27.5 percent from 2016 to 2021).

● By 2021, 27 percent of the cloud workloads and compute instances will be in private cloud data centers, down from 42 percent in 2016 (CAGR of 11 percent from 2016 to 2021).
Here is a good article describing how the DBA role will change as DBs shift to cloud:

http://resources.pythian.com/hubfs/Whit ... epaper.pdf

Cloud resource (i.e. cost) management is actually a key part of the DBA’s job in this new world.

And even if workload stays on-prem, it will likely move to hyperconverged infrastructure, which necessitates similar admin responsibilities as public cloud.

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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by simas » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:25 am

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:41 am
● By 2021, 94 percent of workloads and compute instances will be processed by cloud data centers; 6 percent will be processed by traditional data centers

● By 2021, 73 percent of the cloud workloads and compute instances will be in public cloud data centers, up from 58 percent in 2016 (CAGR of 27.5 percent from 2016 to 2021).

● By 2021, 27 percent of the cloud workloads and compute instances will be in private cloud data centers, down from 42 percent in 2016 (CAGR of 11 percent from 2016 to 2021).
Here is a good article describing how the DBA role will change as DBs shift to cloud:

http://resources.pythian.com/hubfs/Whit ... epaper.pdf

Cloud resource (i.e. cost) management is actually a key part of the DBA’s job in this new world.

And even if workload stays on-prem, it will likely move to hyperconverged infrastructure, which necessitates similar admin responsibilities as public cloud.
Sure. are you working in the field or one of those 'in theory' guys ? I have seen plenty of different estimates over multiple decades that did not go as expected. Cloud is here to stay in specific use cases (rapid deployment of temporary infrastructure, situations where workloads are highly cyclical ,etc). Wait until you pay the bills involved and you understand where it does and does not make. As person doing it on seven-eight digit budgets, you will see where (currently, disclaimer, may and likely will change) it does/doesn't make sense.

But all of this is irrelevant to OP. to OP, dumping your data career for AWS associate or something similar is not a good path. focus on what you are good at.

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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:37 am

simas wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:25 am
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:41 am
● By 2021, 94 percent of workloads and compute instances will be processed by cloud data centers; 6 percent will be processed by traditional data centers

● By 2021, 73 percent of the cloud workloads and compute instances will be in public cloud data centers, up from 58 percent in 2016 (CAGR of 27.5 percent from 2016 to 2021).

● By 2021, 27 percent of the cloud workloads and compute instances will be in private cloud data centers, down from 42 percent in 2016 (CAGR of 11 percent from 2016 to 2021).
Here is a good article describing how the DBA role will change as DBs shift to cloud:

http://resources.pythian.com/hubfs/Whit ... epaper.pdf

Cloud resource (i.e. cost) management is actually a key part of the DBA’s job in this new world.

And even if workload stays on-prem, it will likely move to hyperconverged infrastructure, which necessitates similar admin responsibilities as public cloud.
Sure. are you working in the field or one of those 'in theory' guys ? I have seen plenty of different estimates over multiple decades that did not go as expected. Cloud is here to stay in specific use cases (rapid deployment of temporary infrastructure, situations where workloads are highly cyclical ,etc). Wait until you pay the bills involved and you understand where it does and does not make. As person doing it on seven-eight digit budgets, you will see where (currently, disclaimer, may and likely will change) it does/doesn't make sense.

But all of this is irrelevant to OP. to OP, dumping your data career for AWS associate or something similar is not a good path. focus on what you are good at.
Looks like you see what’s coming too.

OP should be future proofing his career now. The longer he waits the harder it will be to gain traction in the new hybrid cloud world.

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confusedinvestor
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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by confusedinvestor » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:17 am

thanks HEDGEFUNDIE

I have worked as a on-prem DBA (Oracle, MySQL, NoSQL - all db flavors) for last 20 years and I 've to work another mim 15 years

The telecom company I used to work for last 10+ yrs singed a deal with Azure to move workloads / databases to cloud

I don't know any cloud technologies - AWS or Azure - so I am working on getting certs (to show something on paper and also to learn it), given lot of companies are either moving to Cloud and or planning on moving.

I will always use my DBA skills but would like to "market" myself as Cloud DBA or DevOps DBA - not just as a mere cloud admin

What do you think of my strategy ?

I'm also learning lot of automation technologies to survive and be relevant in the market for next 15 years...given, traditional DBA work (install, configure, maintain, backup, recovery, etc) are either automated on-prem or cloud providers offer those as a service. limited needs of trad DBAs.
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:37 am

Looks like you see what’s coming too.

OP should be future proofing his career now. The longer he waits the harder it will be to gain traction in the new hybrid cloud world.

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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by simas » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:44 pm

confusedinvestor wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:17 am
I have worked as a on-prem DBA (Oracle, MySQL, NoSQL - all db flavors) for last 20 years and I 've to work another mim 15 years
The telecom company I used to work for last 10+ yrs singed a deal with Azure to move workloads / databases to cloud
what does this mean to you? a VM is a VM is a VM. hosted on your desktop , in colo , in Azure, in AWS, etc. or do you mean DBaaS approaches where instead of licensing hardware infrastructure the actual DBMS instance is license.
confusedinvestor wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:17 am
I will always use my DBA skills but would like to "market" myself as Cloud DBA or DevOps DBA - not just as a mere cloud admin
What do you think of my strategy ?
… again, what does this mean? "Cloud DBA" is meaningless , same as "DevOps DBA". what I saw succeeding is
- knowledge of "your data", what is inside? can you make sense out of it (write queries/reports)? can you help other make sense of it? you are the closest to the data
- knowledge of your domain (whichever it is, trading, fintech , insurance, etc).
if you have the above you can help whose who need it make sense out of information company owns, answer questions and solve problems.
- having some exposure to SDLC does not hurt, there is nothing magical in Agile, DevOps, or any other approach. you can integrate easily into it while keeping your core expertise
- having similar exposure to other use cases (stretch databases , hybrid cloud scenario, etc), none of this needs generic cloud certification and is very technology specific. less familiar with Oracle, in SQL (much more recent engine and DB so less complex), all of this is already in place, I can stretch table out for archiving purposes, extend high availability groups into cloud ,etc. You are still data professional ("DBA") just knowing your craft and how it interacts with other tools

"I'm also learning lot of automation technologies to survive and be relevant in the market for next 15 years...given, traditional DBA work (install, "
that is a good idea to keep learning.

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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by cruzbay » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:54 pm

The LinkedIn profile is very important! Be sure to change your settings to "Open to Opportunity" so that your profile will come up in a search by a recruiter who has the LinkedIn Recruiter's license. And make sure that your profile gives enough info about what you are doing (list the most marketable skills. Don't try to make it a resume substitute with too much detail on your projects.) List what you seek in a way that is not too specific nor overly broad. I would say that you are Open to Relocation to keep your options open. It may turn out that moving is the best thing for you and your wife. Be honest with the recruiter about your situation. Maybe something awesome will come along or maybe it could lead to a remote/partial onsite role that would suit you. Professional photo. Join a few (not a million) LinkedIn groups that show your existing and new interests and give you access to discussions and people in those areas of technology. Network with alumni of your school and your past jobs, vendors, etc. Let it be known that you are seeking a new opportunity. One never knows who it will be that will help you make the right connection. If your company offers an outsourcing service, use it!

Now, interviewing..that is a whole separate subject! You must be able to concisely explain your value and experience to a potential employer. Don't spend time on the whole outsourcing drama other than to list it as your reason for leaving. Be positive. Seek to help the new employer move forward and improve their results. Have ready a couple concise examples of when you: saved the company money, improved processing time or accuracy, saved the day when all appeared to be in big trouble, mentored others. This is no time to be overly humble so if you can relate a couple of these instances if you are asked, that will be good. Seek to move forward in salary in a reasonable increment. You have much knowledge, lessons learned and a variety of technologies under your belt. You have shown yourself to be a loyal employee vs. a job hopper seeking to jump in salary every year or two. Practice your interviewing-both on the phone/Skype and in person. Speak up, speak slowly if you are a speedy talker usually, give the answer to the question that is asked (not a narrative on related topics) and then feel free to say "did that answer your question or would you like additional detail?" The interviewer likely has a list of questions to get through and this will allow them to pace the interview and get all the info that they desire. Positive, concise, honest (if you don't know something, don't say you do and don't list stuff on your resume that will stump you when asked the first question!) and enthusiastic. Do your research on the company, know the position description, see if you know others who work there, read what the company is 'talking about' on LinkedIn and any news coverage, etc. Don't be afraid to say that you are excited about the opportunity and hope to continue the interviewing process. You will be fine! This is the beginning of a new adventure for you! Sometimes, in order to fly, the little bird needs a shove out of the nest! :)

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confusedinvestor
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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by confusedinvestor » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:35 pm

I've read your advise below 3 times and making notes, thank you for your time writing in such good advisory detail - so much appreciated

Question:

If you are not much experience with a specific technology, yet, you are interested in that focus area (in my case, DevOps, IT Automation+Cloud), how do you tell the hiring manager that you are very interested to learn on the job and willing to execute on the challenge ?
cruzbay wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:54 pm
The LinkedIn profile is very important! Be sure to change your settings to "Open to Opportunity" so that your profile will come up in a search by a recruiter who has the LinkedIn Recruiter's license. And make sure that your profile gives enough info about what you are doing (list the most marketable skills. Don't try to make it a resume substitute with too much detail on your projects.) List what you seek in a way that is not too specific nor overly broad. I would say that you are Open to Relocation to keep your options open. It may turn out that moving is the best thing for you and your wife. Be honest with the recruiter about your situation. Maybe something awesome will come along or maybe it could lead to a remote/partial onsite role that would suit you. Professional photo. Join a few (not a million) LinkedIn groups that show your existing and new interests and give you access to discussions and people in those areas of technology. Network with alumni of your school and your past jobs, vendors, etc. Let it be known that you are seeking a new opportunity. One never knows who it will be that will help you make the right connection. If your company offers an outsourcing service, use it!

Now, interviewing..that is a whole separate subject! You must be able to concisely explain your value and experience to a potential employer. Don't spend time on the whole outsourcing drama other than to list it as your reason for leaving. Be positive. Seek to help the new employer move forward and improve their results. Have ready a couple concise examples of when you: saved the company money, improved processing time or accuracy, saved the day when all appeared to be in big trouble, mentored others. This is no time to be overly humble so if you can relate a couple of these instances if you are asked, that will be good. Seek to move forward in salary in a reasonable increment. You have much knowledge, lessons learned and a variety of technologies under your belt. You have shown yourself to be a loyal employee vs. a job hopper seeking to jump in salary every year or two. Practice your interviewing-both on the phone/Skype and in person. Speak up, speak slowly if you are a speedy talker usually, give the answer to the question that is asked (not a narrative on related topics) and then feel free to say "did that answer your question or would you like additional detail?" The interviewer likely has a list of questions to get through and this will allow them to pace the interview and get all the info that they desire. Positive, concise, honest (if you don't know something, don't say you do and don't list stuff on your resume that will stump you when asked the first question!) and enthusiastic. Do your research on the company, know the position description, see if you know others who work there, read what the company is 'talking about' on LinkedIn and any news coverage, etc. Don't be afraid to say that you are excited about the opportunity and hope to continue the interviewing process. You will be fine! This is the beginning of a new adventure for you! Sometimes, in order to fly, the little bird needs a shove out of the nest! :)

KlangFool
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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by KlangFool » Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:41 pm

confusedinvestor wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:35 pm
I've read your advise below 3 times and making notes, thank you for your time writing in such good advisory detail - so much appreciated

Question:

If you are not much experience with a specific technology, yet, you are interested in that focus area (in my case, DevOps, IT Automation+Cloud), how do you tell the hiring manager that you are very interested to learn on the job and willing to execute on the challenge ?
confusedinvestor,

<< how do you tell the hiring manager that you are very interested to learn on the job and willing to execute on the challenge ?>>

As a hiring manager, I would immediately rule you out. "Learn on the job" is the phrase that will rule you out of any job except when you are a fresh grad.

<<you are interested in that focus area (in my case, DevOps, IT Automation+Cloud), >>

If you are interested, you would had taken some courses in EdX and Coursera for those subjects and you have the certificates and credentials to prove this. If you don't, then, your interests are a bunch of lies.

Show and prove to me about your interest.

KlangFool

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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by cherijoh » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:27 pm

confusedinvestor wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:30 am
Hi Folks,
I work in IT in a major telecommunications company and our entire dept is outsourced and we are given only 1 year job, with very little chance of extension. All our pension etc is all gone, I'm very sad and depressed, I have started prelim job search but I don't see many job posting in SoCal local area, in my field, IT / Database Admin.

1. What do you suggest I do ?

2. Should I try to get a Cloud / IT certification to get more marketable for next 4-6 months while I still have 1 year job ?

3. How is the CA unemployment insurance ?

4. What is the best way to get a job these days in IT ?

My DW doesn't want to move, given she has a job here. We spent all our EF in a recent remodel and what a bad timing of all this. I have been working for this big telecommunications company for 10+ years and now I find myself bit rusty in technology where I haven't kept my skills upto the market, very worried and depressed

Will appreciate any words of wisdom and advises.
What do you mean your pension is "gone"? If you were there 10+ years, you should be vested in the pension. If so then it is frozen (i.e., no more growth in the benefit you will receive at retirement) rather than gone.

Certifications are probably a good idea. Letting your skills get rusty is not. For some low cost educational options I would look at online classes through a MOOC (massive open online courses) threough a consolidator like Coursera.

I would start networking to find job opportunities and also contact recruiters specializing in IT. They can also likely tell you which skills are in the highest demand.

I would also start belt-tightening now and try to build back up the emergency fund tht used for a non-emergency. :oops:

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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by cherijoh » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:50 pm

confusedinvestor wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:38 pm
Folks, I'm not H1B and outsourced company is a big blue xxx company - let's not derail this thread and get it locked by admin vs helping me out during this rough times for me and my family.

I already got great advises (actionable) and I'll work on it.

Any suggestions on how to get in touch with local good recruiters or head-hunters ?

I've sadly very limited network and new to SoCal and all my ex-coworkers in TX but any job in TX, i'd have to move but DW has a local job here in SoCal.

I've started going to meetups (local evening technical group meetings) and telling few ppl that i'm in the market...
Don't ignore your contacts in TX. They may have a brother-in-law in SoCal. :wink: Also your networking contacts do not need to be limited to those in your field. They can be friends, family, neighbors, members of your faith community, etc. I have an acquaintance (we share a hair dresser) who found a job because the husband of another client had job to fill in her field.

If you set up a good LinkedIn profile, the recruiters will find you. I also suggest joining LInkedIn groups related to your field of study and participating on discussion boards. Recruiters hang out there looking for leads. (Also some LinkedIn groups are specifically set up as job lead boards). I helped a friend in Import/Export get his LI profile polished up and helped him ID some groups to join. He now has a new job and the recruiter found him through his LinkedIn profile. He is over 60 and had been with his former company almost 20 years. So there is hope for you too!

DEfinitely get business cards from people you meet at the technical meet-ups. Send them an invitation to join your linkedIn network within about 24-hrs. I always sent a personal invitation with something like "I enjoyed speaking with you at the XYZ meeting last night. Here's an invitation to join my LinkedIn network". That will improve your odds that they will remember you and accept your invitation. You can also ask these people if they know of any recruiters that they would recommend.

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Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by mattshwink » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:27 pm

First - good luck to you. It can be a stressful time. While not outsourced I work as a federal IT contractor and contracts end/are awarded to a different team. Being in this field for 20+ years (same as you, I am 44) and being a contractor 11 years of that has taught me to be flexible. I was in the job market just a year ago (contract change made my working environment "difficult" and I sought and found a new opportunity, and then was offered a new opportunity beyond that which I have been working in for 5 months now).

You have gotten some good advice here. Here is some more: take a really hard look at your resume. You likely have not updated in a long time. Spend time going through your e-mails, project files, etc. List everything you have done. Be specific. Example:
Not good: I supported five applications in MongoDB and MS SQL, including upgrades and ad-hoc support
Good: I was the lead DBA on an integrated project team for five applications using both MongoDB and SQL. I was responsible for performing the database upgrade from version x.x.x to-version y.y.y in both the staging and Production environments (which included replication using mechanism zzz).

LinkedIn is good and has changed the way we search for jobs. But don't forget traditional job search sites. I have had good luck with Indeed, Careerbuilder, and Monster (all within the last twelve months).

As for interviews you have gotten some good advice here. I will add some - even though this is IT, look presentable in an interview. It is OK to be overdressed for an interview (unless they tell you to not to be). Also, go on an interview if you don't think you may be a good fit for two reasons: 1. You need to cast a wide net 2. The best way to get experience is by going on interviews. Interviewing is about sussing out whether who you are in a resume is the same as who you are in person (and whether you will be a good fit). So be yourself. Be honest. Be eager.

Bonus piece of interview advice: Being negative in an interview is an instance turn-off. Don't say things like "I want to stick it to my old employer because they outsourced us." Instead say "Because of recent changes, I am looking to find a place that can help me grow"

As for skills, I agree with the above that the DBA role isn't dead, it's just evolving. I know lots of DBAs (opposite coast), they all are gainfully employed and not dinosaurs. Applications still need databases, which need DBAs to manage them. Instead of managing maintenance plans, backups, and clusters the jobs are more pure DBA focused - application integration, data fixes, indexes, query optimization, etc.

Being multi-DB focused is a plus, highlight that (I have met many a DBA who is either RDBMS or apps focused, or only Oracle or SQL).

Cloud certs are good (Disclosure: I just passed AZ-103 myself last night). While we can argue whether the move to the Cloud is a good one, it is the "it" thing right now. The other is Hybrid Cloud (businesses using more than one cloud, such as both Azure and AWS - this is what I am doing now). While you many not have experience in it, I have found that cloud certs are sought after, because of current demand. I would do AWS first, then Azure, within your 12 month time frame. It won't hurt and will most likely help.

Topic Author
confusedinvestor
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:04 am

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by confusedinvestor » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:12 pm

KlangFool

I always appreciate your thoughts and feedback.

Do you think certifications of AWS will help ?

I wrote some DevOps code (eg Ansible playbooks) uploaded to GitHub - Do you think that will help ?


KlangFool wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:41 pm
confusedinvestor wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:35 pm
I've read your advise below 3 times and making notes, thank you for your time writing in such good advisory detail - so much appreciated

Question:

If you are not much experience with a specific technology, yet, you are interested in that focus area (in my case, DevOps, IT Automation+Cloud), how do you tell the hiring manager that you are very interested to learn on the job and willing to execute on the challenge ?
confusedinvestor,

<< how do you tell the hiring manager that you are very interested to learn on the job and willing to execute on the challenge ?>>

As a hiring manager, I would immediately rule you out. "Learn on the job" is the phrase that will rule you out of any job except when you are a fresh grad.

<<you are interested in that focus area (in my case, DevOps, IT Automation+Cloud), >>

If you are interested, you would had taken some courses in EdX and Coursera for those subjects and you have the certificates and credentials to prove this. If you don't, then, your interests are a bunch of lies.

Show and prove to me about your interest.

KlangFool

KlangFool
Posts: 14731
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by KlangFool » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:05 pm

confusedinvestor wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:12 pm
KlangFool

I always appreciate your thoughts and feedback.

Do you think certifications of AWS will help ?

I wrote some DevOps code (eg Ansible playbooks) uploaded to GitHub - Do you think that will help ?

confusedinvestor,

1) Anything that proves you are really interested in what you are claiming will help.

2) Collect the provable credential and certs will help.

KlangFool

cherijoh
Posts: 6379
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:49 pm
Location: Charlotte NC

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by cherijoh » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:10 pm

mattshwink wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:27 pm
You have gotten some good advice here. Here is some more: take a really hard look at your resume. You likely have not updated in a long time. Spend time going through your e-mails, project files, etc. List everything you have done. Be specific. Example:
Not good: I supported five applications in MongoDB and MS SQL, including upgrades and ad-hoc support
Good: I was the lead DBA on an integrated project team for five applications using both MongoDB and SQL. I was responsible for performing the database upgrade from version x.x.x to-version y.y.y in both the staging and Production environments (which included replication using mechanism zzz).
A prior employer paid for outplacement services when they shut down our site and I got lots of good advice. Bullets on your resume shouldn't sound like a job description; they should answer the question "what can you do for our company if we hire you?" Matt is right on the money with his example. A former manager had taught me to write my YE performance review this way. When it came time to update my resume, I cherry-picked items from several performance reviews and generalized them a little. In addition, anything that can be quantified should be - reduced average query times by x%, reduced average number of DB crashes by Y%, etc.
mattshwink wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:27 pm
As for interviews you have gotten some good advice here. I will add some - even though this is IT, look presentable in an interview. It is OK to be overdressed for an interview (unless they tell you to not to be). Also, go on an interview if you don't think you may be a good fit for two reasons: 1. You need to cast a wide net 2. The best way to get experience is by going on interviews. Interviewing is about sussing out whether who you are in a resume is the same as who you are in person (and whether you will be a good fit). So be yourself. Be honest. Be eager.
I tended to apply for jobs where I met most (if not all) of the criteria. But lots of job postings include the kitchen sink in terms of job skills. For the first job I obtained as a data analyst (after getting my MS in Stats) I was missing one key skill included in the job description - being able to write my own data queries in a specific version of SQL. I was totally honest and told them that I had only pulled data based on queries someone else had written where I was only changing the filters, date ranges, etc. and they were in a different version of SQL. The hiring manager's response was that would be easy enough for me to pick up and that some of my other skills were much more difficult to find (like an MS in Stats). So I got the job and did pick up SQL. :happy

So don't self-select yourself out of applying for a job if you don't hit everything listed in the job posting. Just be honest about your limitations.

almostretired1965
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: Dept Outsourced - Job Worries - Need your Advises

Post by almostretired1965 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:26 pm

I don't so much disagree with KlangFool's advice as a somewhat different take. One thing I've always looked for when hiring a mid-level or senior technical person is demonstrated ability to pick up new skills and technologies, on the job as it were, either as a matter of intellectual curiosity or specific need for a new task.

Personally, I have found this to be a very good indicator of someone's ability to grow on the job regardless of their short term fit for the position. If I were you, I would look for examples in your career where you have done this and slip it into the conversation during a job interview. Hopefully it won't be too difficult for you to do ......

A
KlangFool wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:41 pm
confusedinvestor wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:35 pm
I've read your advise below 3 times and making notes, thank you for your time writing in such good advisory detail - so much appreciated

Question:

If you are not much experience with a specific technology, yet, you are interested in that focus area (in my case, DevOps, IT Automation+Cloud), how do you tell the hiring manager that you are very interested to learn on the job and willing to execute on the challenge ?
confusedinvestor,

<< how do you tell the hiring manager that you are very interested to learn on the job and willing to execute on the challenge ?>>

As a hiring manager, I would immediately rule you out. "Learn on the job" is the phrase that will rule you out of any job except when you are a fresh grad.

<<you are interested in that focus area (in my case, DevOps, IT Automation+Cloud), >>

If you are interested, you would had taken some courses in EdX and Coursera for those subjects and you have the certificates and credentials to prove this. If you don't, then, your interests are a bunch of lies.

Show and prove to me about your interest.

KlangFool

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